Fanatical Islam

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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby moonwhim » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:55 am

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Re: Fanatical Islam

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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Tribunal » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:38 am

InfoWarrior
I posted on the Freedom Forum an attachment to the IAEA report on Iran's nuclear program. The report says that Iran has the facilities to produce a nuclear weapon, the materials to produce a nuclear weapon, and the means of producing a nuclear weapon. The report also says that Iran has not allowed inspection to prove one way or another if Iran actually has a weapon or not.

I believe the burden rests with the world to prove one way or another if Iran has a weapon and their intentions to use it/them.

Iran states they are researching technology for nuclear power but the IAEA report states Iran is going in the wrong direction if all they want is nuclear power. Is this enough evidence? I don't believe so!

True - Iran is developing a nuclear weapon.

False - Iran threatened to wipe Israel off the map. That was a mis-translation. Iran's president stated he wanted a regime change.

True - Iran did threaten US naval vessels if they entered international waters near Iran's coast.

True - Iran is a threat to the United States.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Fairminded » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:35 pm

Tribunal wrote:InfoWarrior
I posted on the Freedom Forum an attachment to the IAEA report on Iran's nuclear program. The report says that Iran has the facilities to produce a nuclear weapon, the materials to produce a nuclear weapon, and the means of producing a nuclear weapon. The report also says that Iran has not allowed inspection to prove one way or another if Iran actually has a weapon or not.

I believe the burden rests with the world to prove one way or another if Iran has a weapon and their intentions to use it/them.

Iran states they are researching technology for nuclear power but the IAEA report states Iran is going in the wrong direction if all they want is nuclear power. Is this enough evidence? I don't believe so!

True - Iran is developing a nuclear weapon.

False - Iran threatened to wipe Israel off the map. That was a mis-translation. Iran's president stated he wanted a regime change.

True - Iran did threaten US naval vessels if they entered international waters near Iran's coast.

True - Iran is a threat to the United States.


I'm not sure how you can come to that last assertion based on the other ones. Let's look at them:

Iran developing a nuclear weapon. Yes, as have many other nations, including ones hostile to the U.S. We consider them only a moderate threat and we certainly haven't done any invading. These days not having a nuclear weapon leaves you open to be bullied by nations that do.

Iran threatened to wipe Israel off the map. As you said, false.

Iran did threaten U.S. naval vessels if they entered international waters near Iran's coast. The U.S. is and has been pushing embargoes and sanctions on Iran. These are acts of war. It only stands to reason Iran doesn't want enemy warships anywhere near their coast.

Iran is a threat to the U.S. I'm puzzled by how you found this statement to be true in light of the other ones. Perhaps you meant Iran is a threat in the sense that the U.S. is a threat to Iran and Iran isn't going to just sit down and take it. The U.S. has been actively threatening Iran, talking about war, imposing sanctions, limiting trade, etc.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Tribunal » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:59 pm

Iran is a threat to the U.S. I'm puzzled by how you found this statement to be true in light of the other ones. Perhaps you meant Iran is a threat in the sense that the U.S. is a threat to Iran and Iran isn't going to just sit down and take it. The U.S. has been actively threatening Iran, talking about war, imposing sanctions, limiting trade, etc.

The underlined portion of your statement is exactly what I mean. I am a strong believer that the United States has a long history of creating it's enemies. But regardless of the reasons, Iran is a serious threat to the United States and that means it is a threat to those of us who live here. It takes just one nuclear bomb and the people of the United States will be living in Little House on the Prairie.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby moonwhim » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:11 pm

Tribunal wrote:
Iran is a threat to the U.S. I'm puzzled by how you found this statement to be true in light of the other ones. Perhaps you meant Iran is a threat in the sense that the U.S. is a threat to Iran and Iran isn't going to just sit down and take it. The U.S. has been actively threatening Iran, talking about war, imposing sanctions, limiting trade, etc.

The underlined portion of your statement is exactly what I mean. I am a strong believer that the United States has a long history of creating it's enemies. But regardless of the reasons, Iran is a serious threat to the United States and that means it is a threat to those of us who live here. It takes just one nuclear bomb and the people of the United States will be living in Little House on the Prairie.


So I guess you are not voting for Ron Paul? Actually you have it pretty easy because all the rest of the Republicans running support the Neo-con push for war with Iran....so you can vote for any of them.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Tribunal » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:00 pm

moonwhim wrote:So I guess you are not voting for Ron Paul? Actually you have it pretty easy because all the rest of the Republicans running support the Neo-con push for war with Iran....so you can vote for any of them.


No! I like Rep. Paul a lot and believe he is the best candidate for President. I also agree with his foreign policy because it is most in-line with the Constitution.

My point is the United States has already caused damage to relations with Iran. The United States, and Israel, and even Europe, have threatened Iran's security with an on-going shadow war that's lasted for decades. There is a shadow war going on right now with Iran. The damage is done! I believe to attempt to fix the problem would mean our government admits all the corruption and wrong-doing that's existed and no politician is willing to do that, and no general is willing to let that happen.

I disagree with Rep. Paul when he says that Iran is not a threat to the United States. They openly threaten the United States. I also disagree with Rep. Paul when he says that there is no evidence that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon. The evidence is there if people are willing to look at it. Still, I believe Rep. Paul is the best hope for the future of the United States.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby moonwhim » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:03 pm

Tribunal wrote:
moonwhim wrote:So I guess you are not voting for Ron Paul? Actually you have it pretty easy because all the rest of the Republicans running support the Neo-con push for war with Iran....so you can vote for any of them.


No! I like Rep. Paul a lot and believe he is the best candidate for President. I also agree with his foreign policy because it is most in-line with the Constitution.

My point is the United States has already caused damage to relations with Iran. The United States, and Israel, and even Europe, have threatened Iran's security with an on-going shadow war that's lasted for decades. There is a shadow war going on right now with Iran. The damage is done! I believe to attempt to fix the problem would mean our government admits all the corruption and wrong-doing that's existed and no politician is willing to do that, and no general is willing to let that happen.

I disagree with Rep. Paul when he says that Iran is not a threat to the United States. They openly threaten the United States. I also disagree with Rep. Paul when he says that there is no evidence that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon. The evidence is there if people are willing to look at it. Still, I believe Rep. Paul is the best hope for the future of the United States.


Do you believe in a preemptive strike on Iran?
"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby InfoWarrior82 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:23 pm

So let them launch their missiles. It will be the last time they did. Christ will not support the aggressor army. Unfortunately, I have a sinking feeling that it's going to be the U.S. again this time around.


This whole business with the IAEA really should spark a remembrance back to circa 2003 with a country called.... oh gosh darn it, what was that country called again? .... OH YES! IRAQ! What about our clever "intelligence" with yellow cake uranium? Weapons of mass destruction? As Rick Perry would say, "Whoops".
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Fairminded » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:24 pm

InfoWarrior82 wrote:So let them launch their missiles. It will be the last time they did. Christ will not support the aggressor army. Unfortunately, I have a sinking feeling that it's going to be the U.S. again this time around.


This whole business with the IAEA really should spark a remembrance back to circa 2003 with a country called.... oh gosh darn it, what was that country called again? .... OH YES! IRAQ! What about our clever "intelligence" with yellow cake uranium? Weapons of mass destruction? As Rick Perry would say, "Whoops".


I have a notion that the public memory only goes back four to eight years. It explains why every election people buy into the idea of change and swing to the candidate from the other party, even though last time that party was in power they were so disillusioned they voted them out.

And since the public only seems to remember half a decade or so into the past, it's easy to do the exact same things over and over again with perfect success. Especially when the MDGs control the media and can brush inconvenient past events under the rug.

"We need to stop Iran because they're developing nukes! We need to go in now before they bomb us all!"
"Um, eight years ago we did just that in Iraq, only there weren't any nukes and that war was not only unconstitutional but immoral."
"Yeah, but this time it's different!"
"...why?"
"Because they wouldn't make the same mistake twice. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice--"
"It sounds like you're the one being fooled twice. And yes, this time it IS different. Instead of saying the enemy has WMDs as a pretext for war, they're saying they're only DEVELOPING them. It sounds like this time what we're doing is even more unconstitutional and immoral."
"...you're not a patriot."
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby ktg » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:33 pm

Agreed Fairminded.

The warmongers say:
"We need to stop Iran because they're developing nukes! We need to go in now before they bomb us all!"


There were those among the Nephites who said the same thing:
Alma 26:25 And moreover they did say: Let us take up arms against them, that we destroy them and their iniquity out of the land, lest they overrun us and destroy us.

Maybe if the 'saints' studied the BofM daily as we have been instructed instead of watching MSM, those 95% of us wouldn't be deceived and in the dark.

"I tell you freedom of speech will go, freedom of the press will go, and freedom of religion will go. I have warned you against propaganda and hate. We are in the midst of the greatest exhibition of propaganda that the world has ever seen. Just do not believe all you read or hear. The elect are being deceived." J. Reuben Clark, Jr.

(edited for clarity)
Last edited by ktg on Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Fairminded » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:56 pm

ktg wrote:
Fairminded wrote:"We need to stop Iran because they're developing nukes! We need to go in now before they bomb us all!"


Alma 26:25 And moreover they did say: Let us take up arms against them, that we destroy them and their iniquity out of the land, lest they overrun us and destroy us.

Maybe if the 'saints' studied the BofM daily as we have been instructed instead of watching MSM, those 95% of us wouldn't be deceived and in the dark.

"I tell you freedom of speech will go, freedom of the press will go, and freedom of religion will go. I have warned you against propaganda and hate. We are in the midst of the greatest exhibition of propaganda that the world has ever seen. Just do not believe all you read or hear. The elect are being deceived." J. Reuben Clark, Jr.


I can add dialogue tags to make my position more clear :). Usually a good idea anyway.

Typical media-swallowing drone: "We need to stop Iran because they're developing nukes! We need to go in now before they bomb us all!"
Me: "Um, eight years ago we did just that in Iraq, only there weren't any nukes and that war was not only unconstitutional but immoral."
TMD: "Yeah, but this time it's different!"
Me: "...why?"
TMD: "Because the people in charge wouldn't make the same mistake twice. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice--"
Me: "It sounds like you're the one being fooled twice. And yes, this time it IS different. Instead of saying the enemy has WMDs as a pretext for war, they're saying they're only DEVELOPING them. It sounds like this time what we're doing is even more unconstitutional and immoral."
TMD: "...you're not a patriot."
Last edited by Fairminded on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:44 pm

WHAT IRANIAN LEADERS REALLY SAY ABOUT DOING AWAY WITH ISRAEL

A REFUTATION OF THE CAMPAIGN TO EXCUSE AHMADINEJAD’S INCITEMENT TO GENOCIDE

Joshua Teitelbaum

Over the past several years, Iranian leaders – most prominently, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad – have made numerous statements calling for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. Some of these statements have been interpreted by certain journalists and experts on Iran to be simple expressions of dissatisfaction with the Israeli presence in the West Bank or eastern Jerusalem, or with the current Israeli government and its policies.

Juan Cole of the University of Michigan argues that Ahmadinejad was not calling for the destruction of Israel, saying, “Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian.” The British Guardian’s Jonathan Steele argued that Ahmadinejad was simply remarking that “this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.” Steele continues: “He was not making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The ‘page of time’ phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon.”1

Scholars continue to soft-pedal the Iranian President’s words. Professor Stephen Walt, who previously served as academic dean of Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government and co-authored The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy along with Professor John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago, told a Jerusalem audience during a joint appearance in early June 2008, “I don’t think he is inciting to genocide,” when asked about Ahmadinejad’s call to wipe Israel off the map.2

In reality, the intent behind Ahmadinejad’s language is clear. Those who seek to excuse Iranian leaders should not remain unchallenged when they use the tools of scholarship as a smokescreen to obfuscate these extreme and deliberate calls for the destruction of Israel. Language entails meaning. These statements have been interpreted by leading Iranian blogs and news outlets – some official – to mean the destruction of Israel.

Examining Ahmadinejad’s Language

What emerges from a comprehensive analysis of what Ahmadinejad actually said – and how it has been interpreted in Iran – is that the Iranian president was not just calling for “regime change” in Jerusalem, but rather the actual physical destruction of the State of Israel. After all, it is hard to wipe a country off the map without destroying its population as well.

The Iranian government itself reinforced this understanding with its own rendition of his slogans on posters and billboards during official parades. Those who try to make Ahmadinejad’s statements excusable by narrowing their meaning to a change of Israel’s ruling coalition are misleading their readers. The plain meaning of what Ahmadinejad has declared constitutes a call for genocide – the destruction of the Jewish state and its residents.

A contextual examination of these statements demonstrates beyond a doubt that when Iranian leaders use the euphemism “Zionist regime” or “the Jerusalem-occupying regime,” they are most definitely referring to the State of Israel and not to the present regime. Iranian leaders are simply following the time-worn practice in the Arab world of referring to the “Zionist regime” in an attempt to avoid dignifying Israel by recognizing its name.

Iranian leaders are also not talking about a non-directed, natural historical process that will end with Israel’s demise. Rather, they are actively advocating Israel’s destruction and have made it clear that they have the will and the means to effect it.

Ahmadinejad’s “Wipe Israel Off the Map” Speech

On December 15, 2000, he declared on Iranian TV: “Iran’s position, which was first expressed by the Imam [Khomeini] and stated several times by those responsible, is that the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region.”

In an address to the “World without Zionism” Conference held in Tehran on October 26, 2005, Iranian
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:4

“Our dear Imam [Khomeini] ordered that this Jerusalem occupying regime [Israel] must be erased from the page of time. This was a very wise statement.”

In order to remove any doubt in the mind of the Persian reader that Ahmadinejad is referring to Israel, the Iranian president’s official site, http://www.president.ir, interpolates the word “Esraiil” ( اسرائيل ) in its report on the speech to explain the expression “stain of disgrace.”9

A common motif of genocide incitement is the dehumanization of the target population. The Nazi weekly Der Stürmer portrayed Jews as parasites and locusts. In the early 1990s, Hutu propaganda in Rwanda against the Tutsis described them as “cockroaches.”10 Prior to Saddam Hussein’s operations against the Iraqi Shiite population in 1991, his Baath Party newspaper characterized them as “monkey-faced people.”11 Similarly, President Ahmadinejad has called Israeli Jews “cattle,” “blood thirsty barbarians,” and “criminals.”12 Dehumanization has also appeared in other forms, like demonization, by which the target population is described as “Satanic” – a theme specifically used by Ahmadinejad.13

The theme of the Israeli germ or microbe is also a common one with the Iranian president. In his speech before a crowd in Bandar Abbas on February 20, 2008, Ahmadinejad said:14
In the Middle East, they [the global powers] have created a black and filthy microbe called the Zionist regime, so they could use it to attack the peoples of the region, and by using this excuse, they want to advance their schemes for the Middle East.

On the occasion of the 60th anniversary of Israel’s founding, the President of Iran stated that “global arrogance established the Zionist regime 60 years ago.” The Islamic Republic News Agency reported:
“President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Thursday labeled the Zionist regime as a ‘stinking corpse’ and
said those who think they can revive the corpse of this fabricated and usurper regime are mistaken.”
15

The Destruction of Israel is Achievable and Imminent – Not a Long-Term Historical Process

According to President Ahmadinejad, ridding the world of the germ Israel is possible and imminent. On April 14, 2006, Ahmadinejad insisted that Israel was “heading towards annihilation.” He added that Israel was:16
“A dried, rotten tree that will collapse with a single storm.”

The President of Iran told a press conference on March 14, 2008, held during a meeting of the Organization of the Islamic Conference in Senegal:17
“The Zionist regime is on its way out [destructible].”

Referring to the U.S. (the “Great Satan”) and Israel (the “Little Satan”), Ahmadinejad said at a military parade on April 17, 2008:18

“The region and the world are prepared for great changes and for being cleansed of Satanic enemies.”

For Ahmadinejad, Iran’s support for the Palestinians will help them destroy the State of Israel. He told a press conference on May 13, 2008: “This terrorist and criminal state is backed by foreign powers, but this regime would soon be swept away by the Palestinians.”19 A day later, Ahmadinejad spoke in Gorgan, in northern Iran, declaring, “Israel’s days are numbered,” adding that “the peoples of the region would not miss the narrowest opportunity to annihilate this false regime.”20 In a public address shown on the Iranian news channel on June 2, 2008, Ahmadinejad again reiterated: “Thanks to God, your wish will soon be realized, and this germ of corruption will be wiped off the face of the world.”21 Clearly, Ahmadinejad’s call for the imminent destruction of Israel was not a one-time event in 2005, but rather publicly declared on multiple occasions.

Israelis as a “Falsified People”

Ahmadinejad was fully prepared to make his assertions about Jews and Israel in the Western press, as well. In an interview that appeared in the French daily Le Monde on February 5, 2008, he said the Jews of Israel are: “a people falsified, invented, [the people of Israel] will not last; they must leave the territory.”

From the interview it is clear he believes that Israelis will not endure and will not continue to stay on the territory on which they are living. This is not a call for a change of government or new policies alone, but rather for the removal of Israel’s Jewish population from the country, either by ethnic cleansing or physical destruction.

How the Statements Are Understood in Iran

Blogs and Forums

While certain Western commentators on Iran seek to whitewash Ahmadinejad’s statements on Israel, pro and anti-regime Iranians (and others in the region) have no doubt that the Iranian president is referring to the destruction of Israel, according to Iranian blogs and forums. There are close to 180,000 Persian-language blogs, and Iranians constitute 53 percent of Internet users in the Middle East.

Mr. Ahmadinejad, Isn’t that Enough?

“In every Internet site that I visit today (for example, BBC or Radio-Farda) or the satellite radio and television news stations that I listen to, the first news item is the pearls of wisdom issued by Mr. Ahmadinejad regarding the countdown to the destruction of Israel.”22

What Have We Done to Erase Israel?

“Didn’t Imam Khomeini decree that Israel should be erased from the scene of time? Well, I ask you – what have we done in order to erase this Israel from the scene of time?”23

Ahmadinejad’s Statements and the Qur’an

An Iranian blogger asks: Why did Ahmadinejad talk about the destruction of Israel? Are his statements supported by religious laws and decrees? The blogger then presents the research he did regarding the religious writings in the Qur’an that can be seen to support Ahmadinejad’s statements.24

First Fix Your Own Country – Then Destroy Israel

In the Ham-Mihan Forum, the question was raised about Ahmadinejad’s declaration that the countdown towards Israel’s destruction had begun. Among the 71 responses:

“My opinion is that first you [Ahmadinejad] should fix up your own country, and then you can say that Israel should be destroyed. The people in Iran don’t have bread and we are concerned with Palestine.”

“I wish that all of this energy that is devoted to the destruction of Israel would be directed towards the destruction of drug addiction, poverty, corruption and prostitution.”25

Take the First Steps towards Obliterating Israel

Bloggers at Imam Sadegh University called for boycotting Israeli products, with the following message:

“Dear bloggers: If you would like to do so, you can take the first steps towards obliterating Israel from the map of the world.”26

The Iranian blogs reflect a wide range of views regarding statements by Iranian leaders – primarily Ahmadinejad – on the destruction of Israel. His statement at the “World without Zionism” Conference is widely quoted in blogs – by those supporting the statement, those critical of the statement, and those who support the statement but question the wisdom of the timing. One fact cannot be disputed – hmadinejad’s statement that “the Jerusalem-occupying regime must be erased from the page of time” was interpreted by Persian-language bloggers – without exception – as meaning the physical destruction of the State of Israel.

Resalat Daily Reflects on an Ahmadinejad Speech: “The Great War Is Ahead of Us”

Resalat, a conservative Iranian daily, published an editorial on October 22, 2006, entitled “Preparations for the Great War,” in which it reflected on a speech given by Ahmadinejad two days earlier. It stated: “It must not be forgotten that the Great War is ahead of us, perhaps tomorrow, or in a few months, or even a few years.

The nation of Muslims must prepare for the Great War, so as to completely wipe out the Zionist regime, and remove this cancerous growth .27

Calls for the Destruction of Israel Are Echoed Throughout Iran at Military Parades, Billboards, and Demonstrations

Image
“Israel must be uprooted and wiped off [the pages of] history” - the inscription on a Shahab 3 missile in a military parade in Tehran, September 22, 2003

Even before Ahmadinejad himself spoke about wiping Israel off the map, the Iranian regime used such expressions but did not leave any doubt about what stood behind this phraseology.

By juxtaposing its call for Israel’s elimination with a Shahab 3 missile during a military parade, the Iranian regime itself has clarified that these expressions about Israel’s future do not describe a long-term historical process, in which the Israeli state collapses by itself like the former Soviet Union, but rather the actual physical destruction of Israel as a result of a military strike. The Shahab 3 missile has a range of 1,300 kilometers and can reach Israel from launch points in Iranian territory. Once Iran has completed the production of sufficient quantities of highly enriched uranium – or weapons-grade plutonium – there is no reason why Iran cannot deploy a future Iranian nuclear weapon on a Shahab 3 missile in order to carry out Ahmadinejad’s threat to wipe Israel off the map.

Image

This banner appears on the building which houses the Center for the Basij Resistance in the Judicial Branch, which is part of the Basij Resistance in Government Ministries and departments. 28 The Basij are “mobilization forces” used as reserves for the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) or Pasdaran, which was created to defend the Iranian revolutionary regime in 1979. The English translation on the banner reflects how an official organ of the Iranian government understood Ahmadinejad’s words. It is noteworthy that variations on the expression “wipe out of the face of the world” have been used before in a specifically military context. In a Friday sermon, former Iranian President Rafsanjani made the statement: “If one day, a very important day of course, the Islamic world will also be equipped with the weapons available to Israel now, the imperialist strategy will reach an impasse, because the employment of even one atomic bomb inside Israel will wipe it off the face of the earth, but would only do damage to the Islamic world.”29

Image
The banner appears as well on a bus at a military rally in Iran in November 2006. The banner reads in English, “Israel should be wiped out of the face of the world.”30

Image
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad lectures above a sign saying "Death to Israel" in Persian and Arabic, not "Down with Israel" as in the English translation below.

Image
While the captions of the posters in English read “Down with Esrail [Israel]” and “Down with USA,” the captions in Arabic read “Death to Israel” and “Death to America.”

The Statements of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei

Image

In the Iranian system, the highest ranking political authority is the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who succeeded Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in 1989. Khamenei has made statements about Israel similar to Ahmadinejad. In a Friday sermon on December 15, 2000 (shown on Iranian TV), he declared: “Iran’s position, which was first expressed by the Imam [Khomeini] and stated several times by those responsible, is that the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region.”31

A month later on January 15, 2001, at a meeting with organizers of the International Conference for Support of the Intifada, he stated: “The foundation of the Islamic regime is opposition to Israel and the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region.”32 Iranian journalist Kasra Naji translated this sentence from the original Farsi as follows: “It is the mission of the Islamic Republic of Iran to erase Israel from the map of the region.”33 The difference between international reaction to Khamenei’s statements on Israel and those of Ahmadinejad in 2005 comes from the fact that Ahmadinejad’s declarations were made after the disclosure of Iran’s clandestine nuclear weapons program in 2002-3, and the breakdown of EU-Iranian talks on halting the Iranian uranium enrichment program. By 2005, Khamenei began a concerted effort to limit the damage done to Iran by Ahmadinejad’s rhetoric, by insisting that Iran did not seek the military destruction of Israel.34 Yet Hossein Shariatmadari, a close confidant of Khamenei who serves as one of his major mouthpieces, wrote an editorial in the Iranian daily Kayhan on October 30, 2005, in which he argued, “We declare explicitly that we will not be satisfied with anything less than the complete obliteration of the Zionist regime from the political map of the world.”35 It may be that Khamenei has toned down his own rhetoric, but nonetheless has allowed his handpicked editor-in-chief of Kayhan to maintain his original ideological position on destroying Israel to the Iranian public.

In a speech on October 4, 2007, Shariatmadari stated: “‘Death to America’ and ‘Death to Israel’ are not only words written on paper but rather a symbolic approach that reflects the desire of all the Muslim nations.”36

Following Ahmadinejad’s Lead – Other Prominent Figures Call for the Destruction of Israel

Image

Ayatollah Janati: The People Wish the Death of America and Israel

Ayatollah Ahmad Janati, 82, is a member of President Ahmadinejad’s inner circle, and is Chairman of the Guardian Council of the Constitution. According to the Fars News Agency, he told reporters during the 22 of Bahman parade (marking the anniversary of the Islamic revolution) that every year there is a bigger crowd, the slogans are more enthusiastic, and the Islamic regime’s situation is getting better and better. He added: “The blind enemies should see that the wish of these people is the death of America and Israel.”37

General Safavi: Death for the Zionist Regime

Image

Yahya Rahim Safavi, 55, one of the “hard-core” founders of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps and its former commander, is now senior advisor to Supreme Leader Khamenei. In a speech in February 2008, he said: “With God’s help the time has come for the Zionist regime’s death sentence.”38

Safavi is also fond of referring to Israel as impure, unhygienic and contaminated. In remarks at a memorial ceremony for assassinated terrorist Imad Mughniyeh held in the city of Hamadan on February 23, 2008, he stated that the “death of this unclean regime ( مرگ این رژیم ناپاک ) [Israel] will arrive soon following the revolt of Muslims.”39

Mohammad-Ali Ramin:The Jews Are Very Filthy People

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Mohammad-Ali Ramin refers to himself, as does the press, as an adviser to Ahmadinejad. He is a well-known Holocaust denier and is believed to be behind the president’s statements on this issue. He is secretary of the political committee of the Rayeheh Khosh-Khedmat party which supports the president. On June 9, 2006, according to the reformist Internet daily Rooz, Ramin told a group of students in Rasht: “Among the Jews there have always been those who killed God’s prophets and who opposed justice and righteousness. Historically, there are many accusations against the Jews. For example, it was said that they were the source for such deadly diseases as the plague and typhus. This is because the Jews are very filthy people. For a time people also said that they poisoned water wells belonging to Christians and thus killed them.”40 Ramin does not even bother to cover up his anti-Semitism by using “Zionists” instead of “Jews.”

Ayatollah Nuri Hamadani: Fight the Jews and Vanquish Them

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Ayatollah Hussein Nuri Hamadani (b. 1925), a leading religious authority associated with the regime, told a meeting with the Mahdaviyat (messianic) Studies Institute in April 2005: “One should fight the Jews and vanquish them so that the conditions for the advent of the Hidden Imam will be met.” He has also stated that “at present the Jews’ policies threaten us. One should explain in the clearest terms the danger the Jews pose to the [Iranian] people and to the Muslims....Already from the beginning the Jews wanted to hoard the world’s goods in [their] greed and voracity. They always worked in important professions and now they have hoarded all of the wealth in one place. And all of the world, especially America and Europe, are their slaves.”41

General Mohammad-Ali Jafari: “Cancerous Microbe Israel”

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In a February 2008 message to Hassan Nasrallah, Secretary General of Hizbullah, the Commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, General Mohammad-Ali Jafari, wrote: “In the near future, we will witness the destruction of the cancerous microbe Israel ( جرثومه سرطاني اسرائيل ) by the strong and capable hands of the nation of Hizbullah.”42

Majles Speaker Adel: Destruction of the Zionist Regime

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The speaker of Iran’s parliament, Gholam Ali Haddad-Adel, in a February 2008 speech at Tehran University’s mosque, said: “The countdown has begun for the destruction of the Zionist regime.”44

Hizbullah Statements

The positions of Hizbullah are also an indicator of Iranian intentions towards Israel. Hizbullah was founded in 1982 with the deployment of Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards in Lebanon’s Biqa’ Valley and the training of its first Shiite cadre. Hizbullah’s first governing council was established by the Iranian ambassador to Damascus, Ali Akbar Mohtashemi.45 In its founding political platform, Hizbullah makes it clear that it takes its orders from Tehran: “We abide by the orders of one single wise and just leadership, represented by “Wali al-Faqih” and personified by Khomeini.”46

In this context, it is important to take note of the statements of Hassan Nasrallah, the Secretary-General of Hizbullah. In 2002, he disclosed his own organization’s genocidal intent when he declared:

“Islamic prophecies and not only Jewish prophecies declare that this state [Israel] will come into being, and all the Jews of the world will gather from all corners of the world in occupied Palestine. But this will not be so their false messiah [al-Dajjal] can rule in the world, but so that God can save you the trouble of running them down all over the world. And then the battle will be decisive and crushing.”47

This theme also arose during the 2006 Second Lebanon War when Nasrallah called on the Arab residents of Haifa to leave the city, so that no Arab blood would be spilled during Hizbullah’s rocket attacks on Haifa, but only Jewish blood.48 It should come as no surprise that Nasrallah has echoed Ahmadinejad’s repeated theme of Israel’s termination as well.49 Hizbullah takes its lead from Iran.

Incitement to Genocide

Ahmadinejad’s statements have also been reviewed by experts on the Middle East and the Persian language. Michael Axworthy served as the Head of the Iran Section of Britain’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office in 1998-2000 and then subsequently as a lecturer at the Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies at the University of Exeter. He clearly rejects the notion that Ahmadinejad has been mistranslated and misinterpreted: “The formula had been used before by Khomeini and others, and had been translated by representatives of the Iranian regime as ‘wiped off the map.’ Some of the dispute that has arisen over what exactly Ahmadinejad meant by it has been rather bogus. When the slogan appeared draped over missiles in military parades, that meaning was pretty clear.”50

Viewed in context, the statements of Iran’s leaders and, in particular, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad constitute incitement to genocide of the people of Israel. They are alarmingly similar to the coded statements of incitement that preceded the Rwandan genocide of the Tutsis in 1994,51 and should therefore alarm all peace-loving peoples.

There is an ample legal basis for the prosecution of Ahmadinejad in the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court for direct and public incitement to commit genocide and crimes against humanity.52

http://www.jcpa.org/text/ahmadinejad2-words.pdf
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby NoGreaterLove » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:05 am

Yea, OMD at least he does not intend to harm Israel. He is just voicing his concerns about them in a not confrontational way. :p
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:32 am

Iran moves on from "Destroy Israel!" to "Destroy all the Jews!"

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report December 3, 2011, 10:41 AM (GMT+02:00)

Image
From the Iranian anti-Semitic film "Sabbath Hunter"

Amid international and Israeli controversy over whether or not to attack Iran's nuclear program, the rulers of the Islamic Republic have just "upgraded" their strategic objective of wiping Israel off the map and extended it for the first time to the more ambitious one of annihilating the Jews worldwide. They are using the age-old weapon of anti-Semitism to promote their new goal.

Two weeks ago, as their nuclear bomb moved menacingly up the pipeline, the ayatollahs in Tehran and Qom unleashed a virulent campaign of anti-Semitic propaganda in their sermons. A new book and a film were released for wide distribution on orders from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. They draw heavily on the infamous Elders of Zion fiction to accuse the Jews and their rabbis of conspiring to corrupt and rule the world. Under the title "How Israel should be destroyed," this book was awarded the best book prize at the Khorassan book fair when it was first displayed there on Thursday, Dec. 1.

The authors of its seven chapters, identified only as "seminary students of the Holy City of Qom," set out tactics for destroying Israel and the Jews of the world. They quote the Qoran as well as the Protocols of Zion on "the Jewish world view," asserting that the persecution of Jews through the ages - including the Nazi Holocaust - was "just punishment for their crimes."

The Qoran is cited as urging Muslims to keep their distance from Jews because of their "perfidious and deceitful nature."

The book quotes extensively from the views of Ayatollah Khomeini, founder of the Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution, under the heading, "Israel Must Be Destroyed." The book's editor Hojjat-ol-Eslam Mohammad Ebrahim-Nia stresses that this prescription has the force of a fatwa (religious edict) and is binding on every Muslim.

He adds: Notwithstanding every effort to destroy this "criminal" people, it continues to exist and in the guise of Zionism continues its wicked assault on Islam.

The anti-Semitic film, "The Sabbath Hunter," has been circulating for some time but was a flop with Iranian movie audiences. Now the Supreme Leader has ordered it to be screened at every university in the land. The Basij students who rampaged through the British embassy in Tehran this week were made responsible with getting it widely shown.



Aznar: Khamenei said in 2001 Iran aimed to 'set Israel alight'

Former Spanish leader says the Ayatollah explained why Iran must declare war on Israel and the U.S.

By Yossi Verter and Haaretz Correspondent

Former Spanish prime minister Jose Maria Aznar said Tuesday that Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei told him five years ago that "setting Israel on fire" was the first order of business on the Iranian agenda.

Aznar, in Israel as the guest of the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya, related the story to Major General (Res.) Professor Yitzhak Ben-Israel, who later confirmed to Haaretz that the remarks had been made.

Aznar's aides refused to give Haaretz the exact quote, but mentioned an article Aznar has written in the past on his meeting with Khamenei.
"He received me politely," Aznar wrote, "and at the beginning of the meeting he explained to me why Iran must declare war on Israel and the United States until they are completely destroyed. I made only one request of him: that he tell me the time of the planned attack."

Professor Ben-Israel, the former head of the Israel Defense Force's Weapon Systems Development Authority, is today No. 31 on Kadima's list of Knesset candidates.

Aznar was to deliver a lecture at the Interdisciplinary Center on Wednesday evening on "Dealing with the challenged of fundamental Islam and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."

Khamenei still holds the post of Iranian spiritual leader, and considered to be the powerful man in the country.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/aznar-khame ... t-1.182775



Hamas and Hezbollah both are Iran’s proxies against Israel. They also have the goal to destroy Israel just as their patron Iran does.


Hamas leader Haniyeh: Goal is destruction of Israel in stages

Abbas: Hamas agrees to '67 borders

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

At a ceremony marking the 24th anniversary of the founding of Hamas, Hamas leader in the Gaza Strip Ismail Haniyeh said that Hamas may work for the "interim objective of liberation of Gaza, the West Bank, or Jerusalem," but that this "interim objective" and "reconciliation" with Fatah will not change Hamas' long-term "strategic" goal of eliminating all of Israel:

"The armed resistance and the armed struggle are the path and the strategic choice for liberating the Palestinian land, from the [Mediterranean] sea to the [Jordan] river, and for the expulsion of the invaders and usurpers [Israel]... We won't relinquish one inch of the land of Palestine."



In his speech, Haniyeh also promised that Hamas will "lead Intifada after Intifada until we liberate Palestine - all of Palestine, Allah willing. Allah Akbar and praise Allah."

Two days later, contradicting Haniyeh's statements, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas said that Hamas leader abroad Khaled Mashaal had agreed that:

- "There will be no military resistance."
- "The permanent solution is on the '67 borders."

According to Abbas, Hamas agrees to a permanent solution on the '67 borders. However, Haniyeh said that Hamas agrees to a temporary solution on the '67 borders as a first stage only.

For many years, the PLO promoted a "stages plan" that would first create a Palestinian state on the 1949 - 1967 armistice lines, and then work from that position to destroy Israel.

Senior Fatah official Abbas Zaki recently stated that this remains the goal for Fatah as well, but that "you can't say it to the world. You can say it to yourself."




The following are longer excerpts of the statements mentioned above:

Speech by Ismail Haniyeh, head of Hamas at ceremony marking 24th anniversary of the founding of Hamas:

"We welcome you today, on this anniversary of the founding of the Islamic Resistance Movement - Hamas, as you renew the promise and oath of loyalty with Allah, with His Messenger and with His believers; you are renewing the loyalty to the blood of the Martyrs and the path of resistance and Jihad upon the blessed land of Palestine...

We say today, explicitly, so it cannot be explained otherwise, that the armed resistance and the armed struggle are the path and the strategic choice for liberating the Palestinian land, from the [Mediterranean] sea to the [Jordan] river, and for the expulsion of the invaders and usurpers [Israel] from the blessed land of Palestine. The Hamas movement will lead Intifada after Intifada until we liberate Palestine - all of Palestine, Allah willing. Allah Akbar and praise Allah. We say with transparency and in a clear manner, that Palestinian reconciliation - and all sides must know this - cannot come at the expense of [our] principles, at the expense of the resistance. These principles are absolute and cannot be disputed: Palestine - all of Palestine - is from the sea to the river. We won't relinquish one inch of the land of Palestine. The involvement of Hamas at any stage with the interim objective of liberation of [only] Gaza, the West Bank, or Jerusalem, does not replace its strategic view concerning Palestine and the land of Palestine."

[Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas), Dec. 14, 2011]

PA TV rebroadcast of interview in Arabic with Abbas on the European Union's news channel Euro-News:

Abbas [asked about discussions with Hamas]: "We held a meeting about a month ago, Khaled Mashaal [head of Hamas political bureau] and I, and we established some foundations for an agreement. Among these foundations - first, Hamas concurs with us on the following points: the first point is that the calm and the ceasefire are [in place] not only in Gaza, but also in the West Bank - that's one. Two - the resistance must be non-violent -popular. There will be no military resistance, honestly. And we agreed on this. The third point [was] that the permanent solution is on the '67 borders. Hamas agreed to this, too. The fourth point - that we would go to elections in May of next year."

[PA TV (Fatah), Dec. 16 and 17, 2011]
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=6024

From the inception of Hezbollah to the present, the elimination of the State of Israel has been one of Hezbollah's primary goals. Some translations of Hezbollah's 1985 Arabic-language manifesto state that "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated". According to Hezbollah's Deputy-General, Na'im Qasim, the struggle against Israel is a core belief of Hezbollah and the central rationale of Hezbollah's existence.
http://books.google.com/books?id=iVJR9UZnTVAC&pg=PA423&lpg=PA423&dq=the+hezbollah+program&source=bl&ots=5E5UuyjTof&sig=wIJRQqjOGY_owKPN9BEy9wsKzXw&hl=en&ei=XEzHTtHHEumjiAL64YHSDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=the%20hezbollah%20program&f=false
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Tribunal » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:40 am

moonwhim wrote:Do you believe in a preemptive strike on Iran?

MOONWHIM,
What preemptive strike? The "strikes" have been going on 'behind the scenes' for a long time. The United States, along with Israel and Europe, and Iran, along with China and Russia, have waged proxy wars for years. The United States and Iran are currently waging a shadow war. How can you preempt a strike when both nations are already striking each other? If the conflict went nuclear it would only escalate an already active war between the two.

During Iraq War II (up to a year ago) our intel boys and girls were very active in Basra, and not because of our war with Iraq, but because Basra is less than fifty miles from Iran. Iranian Revolutionary Guardsman have been tracked flying to Venezuela and Cuba. The Iranian nuclear program has been hit with computer viruses and assassinations. An Iranian military base was attacked and a top Iranian commander was killed. Iran brought down a 'top secret' recon UCAV, and, Iran recently apprehended agents of the CIA.

MOONWHIM, the game goes on!
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Tribunal » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:49 am

Fairminded wrote:I can add dialogue tags to make my position more clear :). Usually a good idea anyway.

I totally agree!

Typical media-swallowing drone: "We need to stop Iran because they're developing nukes! We need to go in now before they bomb us all!"

You need to learn the facts of the conflict. There is much more going on than just developing nukes. The United States isn't just preparing for war with Iran, the United States is already engaged in war with Iran.

Me: "Um, eight years ago we did just that in Iraq, only there weren't any nukes and that war was not only unconstitutional but immoral."

You need to learn the facts behind Iraq and all that was found. WMDs were found in Iraq!

TMD: "Yeah, but this time it's different!"

I totally disagree. The conflict with Iran is an on-going conflict the world has had with itself.

Me: "...why?"

Educate yourself!

TMD: "Because the people in charge wouldn't make the same mistake twice. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice--"

We are all fools because we've allowed our corrupt government to wage in immoral and un-Constitutional conflicts for years.

Me: "It sounds like you're the one being fooled twice. And yes, this time it IS different. Instead of saying the enemy has WMDs as a pretext for war, they're saying they're only DEVELOPING them. It sounds like this time what we're doing is even more unconstitutional and immoral."

This statement screams of ignorance!

TMD: "...you're not a patriot."

If you say so!
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby InfoWarrior82 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:18 am

OMD, you have said previously that you believe the LDGs want to go to war with Iran. Why, then, are you buying into all of the mainstream propaganda which tells us why we should go to war with Iran? You already said we shouldn't go to war pre-emptively. Why do you support candidates who would go to war pre-emptively? It seems like you are actually ideologically closer to Ron Paul than anyone else, but just want Ron Paul to talk tough on Iran. You want more rhetoric. You have not addressed this yet:

So, what makes Ron Paul stand out among all other Republican candidates with regards to Iran?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone else supports the idea of pre-emptively striking Iran. So, if you personally DO NOT want to pre-emptively strike Iran, why would you vote for anyone who does?

If any of the front runners DO NOT support a pre-emptive strike on Iran, then doesn't it really all come down to just "talkin' tough" on Iran? Do you just want someone who "talks tough"?


So.. China has nuclear weapons... North Korea has nuclear weapons... are we the police of the world with them? Why haven't we gone in to take them out? I know this may sound wacky... but... what in the world gives us the right to tell another sovereign nation that they can't have nuclear weapons? Does might make right?

You may think I'm drinking the kool aid from certain groups, but I'd rather side with people giving me reasons not to go to war than listen to people telling me that we should go to war.

5tev3 wrote:
Obiwan wrote:
5tev3 wrote:Offensive war is never justified and is forbidden by Jesus Christ.

Mormon 3:14 "And when they had sworn by all that had been forbidden them by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, that they would go up unto their enemies to battle, and avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren..."

I wrote a whole article on the topic here.


Problem with your judgment is you quote mine the scripture to fit your own ideology, instead of considering the full context, and you also compare apples and oranges as if the circumstances are exactly the same when they aren't. Not only that, but you add to scripture trying to claim a one size fits all ideology, instead of considering the context itself.

Take for example the verse above. You entirely rip it out of it's context, the context being that the Nephites were actually "wicked" at the time, and Mormon didn't want to lead such a people another time because they hadn't repented.

See, the problem with people like you, is if your liberal ideology is consistent, we wouldn't have went to war against Germany or Japan.
After all, no need to go to them, let them come to us. People like you, we wouldn't have helped South Korea, and today the South would likely be just like the North is now. Oh.... Aren't you so RIGHTEOUS!

Sorry, but your liberalism is of the devil, not God.... Your views are perversion. Only the devil would want the wicked of the world to be left alone, becoming stronger and stronger, destroying the lives of the innocent. You sir, are not of God.... Repent.


I think you will find if you analyze the scriptures in context you will discover that it is quite consistent with my point. Mormon doesn't cease leading the Nephites because they were wicked, he forbids to lead the Nephites specifically because they decide to wage a war of aggression against the Lamanites. “And it came to pass that I utterly refused to go up against mine enemies; and I did even as the Lord had commanded me; and I did stand as an idle witness to manifest unto the world the things which I saw and heard,” (Mormon 3:16)

If it was because they were wicked then why did he go back to leading them again later when they were still wicked? Answer: because they had ceased going up unto their enemies and had reverted back to only defending themselves. In chapter 5 Mormon even repeatedly notes that it was always the Lamanites that came against them:

…the Lamanites did come against us as we had fled… (Mormon 5:3)
…they came against us again… (Mormon 5:4)
…the Lamanites did come again against us to battle… (Mormon 5:6)

I don't believe that you even read my entire article.

I don't know what you mean by "liberal" either. I don't consider myself a "liberal" or a "conservative" or any other divisive, meaningless, label since their meanings are polluted and both existing flavors of "liberal" and "conservative" factions are war-like and bloodthirsty people fueled by a corrupt red and blue headed party that masquerades as two distinct entities. Name-calling evidences that you do not understand an issue well enough to present your ideas properly.

I invite you to try reading the article again with an open mind and view the scriptures in their context. I'm quite confident that you will find that not only does the Lord never command his people to go out unto their enemies, the Book of Mormon provides many wonderful alternatives to dealing with enemies rather than destroying them.

Note that I believe, along with the scriptures, that we are fully justified in DEFENDING ourselves unto bloodshed but only as our enemies come against us. I'm not trying to promote myself as being "holier-than-thou" as you seem to imply, I am just trying to point out that your position is the opposite of what Book of Mormon and the founding fathers teach. It IS a one-size-fits-all ideology. You never go up against your enemies.

“they had sworn by all that had been forbidden them by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, that they would go up unto their enemies to battle, and avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren…”

Let’s refer back to President Kimball’s assessment of us: "We are a warlike people, easily distracted from our assignment of preparing for the coming of the Lord. When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel—ships, planes, missiles, fortifications—and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we become antienemy instead of pro-kingdom of God; we train a man in the art of war and call him a patriot, thus, in the manner of Satan’s counterfeit of true patriotism, perverting the Savior’s teaching: “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; “That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.” (Matt. 5:44–45.)

Consider the words Ammon: "For they said unto us: Do ye suppose that ye can bring the Lamanites to the knowledge of the truth? Do ye suppose that ye can convince the Lamanites of the incorrectness of the traditions of their fathers, as stiffnecked a people as they are; whose hearts delight in the shedding of blood; whose days have been spent in the grossest iniquity; whose ways have been the ways of a transgressor from the beginning? Now my brethren, ye remember that this was their language. And moreover they did say: Let us take up arms against them, that we destroy them and their iniquity out of the land, lest they overrun us and destroy us. But behold, my beloved brethren, we came into the wilderness not with the intent to destroy our brethren, but with the intent that perhaps we might save some few of their souls." – Alma 26:24-26
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby ktg » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:45 am

InfoWarrior82 wrote:OMD, you have said previously that you believe the LDGs want to go to war with Iran. Why, then, are you buying into all of the mainstream propaganda which tells us why we should go to war with Iran? You already said we shouldn't go to war pre-emptively. Why do you support candidates who would go to war pre-emptively? It seems like you are actually ideologically closer to Ron Paul than anyone else, but just want Ron Paul to talk tough on Iran. You want more rhetoric.


I think OMD may actually be Glenn Beck in disguise.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:59 pm

Infowarrior let us step back so we can see where we agree and disagree.

I believe that these are your positions.

1. Iran is not developing nuclear weapons and is only using enriched uranium for peaceful purposes.

I have shown in my previous posts that Iran is testing implosion devises used in nuclear detonation.

Iran is enriching uranium way beyond the 5% needed for fuel rods. 20% and still enriching.

Iran has launched a satellite into orbit meaning they have intercontinental missile technology.

Iran has fired missiles from ships in the Caspian Sea twice in the last 8 years to test the feasibility of an EMP attack on the USA.

2. Iran has never said it wanted to destroy Israel or America.

I have clearly shown this is false. Many Iranian leaders on many occasions have said that they want to destroy Israel and America. They obviously do not say it in English but they express it in public in Iran and else where, at ‘Terror Conferences’, military and political rallies, on TV, Books, News outlets, movies and over the pulpit in the Mosques. To ignore their own words and beliefs is foolish. The Iranian lobby, their English news service and Russia TV are the ones spreading lies and propaganda Infowarrior.

Iran has conducted a clandestine war against Israel and to a point America thru their proxy terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah. Both of these organization’s major goal is the destruction of Israel. It is naïve to think that when Iran gets a nuclear weapon on ICBMs they would not use them to fulfill their goals they have been following for over 40 years. It is not just politics or the hatred of Jews/’Zionism’/Israel that has set them on this course to “destroy Israel and America” but their desire to see their Islamic Revolution to spreads to the rest of the Middle East AND the world. They see themselves as a leader of this Caliphate.

If you have read my posts you will also know that Ahmadinejad and Khomeini both believe and have said that they are the forerunners of the 12th Imam and want to hasten his return. Khomeini has even said he has spoken to the 12th Imam! So why would the leaders of Iran not uses whatever it takes to realize their dreams and goals. As I have said only the naïve think they won’t use them.

3. The Book of Mormon teaches that Israel or the US would be going against God’s word if we preemptively attacked Iranian nuclear facilities.

Comparing Mormon vs the Lamanites to the conflict Israel and America have now with Iran is like comparing apples and oranges. Neither Mormon nor George Washington had an enemy which could, with the push of one button, kill a major portion of your population in just minuets. They had months of warning before an attack. Lamanites did on occasion catch the Nephites off guard but they were not able to slaughter over 50% of the Nephites in one surprise attack. The Lamanites had to kill one Nephite at a time with their swords. Iran can vaporize a city in seconds or using EMP, could condemn millions to disease and starvation. Mormon did not have an opportunity, in one raid, to eliminate a threat of this size. If he did I would guess that he would go to the Lord for permission to do it.

Actually there were two preemptive strikes mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Teancum twice tried to reduce the Lamanites war making ability by sneaking into their camps to kill both Amalickiah and Ammaron. He was successful both times but sacrificed his life the second time. THIS is a proper comparison when it comes to Israel. They have been fighting Iran through Hezbollah and Hamas for decades. The war is soon to get even worse if Iran gets nuclear weapons. If Israel can do as Teancum did and “sneak” into Iran to take out their nuke weapons then it would reduce their war making ability and save the lives of millions.

Infowarrior you have fallen for the propaganda of Iran, Russia and the ‘blame America first’ crowd. Your paradigm is so ingrained that I don’t think a picture of a nuclear warhead in Iran or seeing Iranian secret plans to bomb Israel and America would dissuade you of your beliefs. You would say they were faked or ‘propaganda of the warmongers’.

The LDGs do want war. They have placed the world into a no win situation to get there. They have covered ALL the bases so they get the desired result no matter what happens. We take out Iran’s nukes and start a M.E. war that could go global. We DON”T take out the nukes and IRAN starts the global war. Either way we loose. We have a better chance to avert WW III and save more lives if we and/or Israel takes out Iranian nuke sites. If Iran gets the ‘bomb’, then its 100% sure WW III will happen.
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby moonwhim » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Oldemandalton wrote:Infowarrior let us step back so we can see where we agree and disagree.

I believe that these are your positions.

1. Iran is not developing nuclear weapons and is only using enriched uranium for peaceful purposes.

I have shown in my previous posts that Iran is testing implosion devises used in nuclear detonation.

Iran is enriching uranium way beyond the 5% needed for fuel rods. 20% and still enriching.

Iran has launched a satellite into orbit meaning they have intercontinental missile technology.

Iran has fired missiles from ships in the Caspian Sea twice in the last 8 years to test the feasibility of an EMP attack on the USA.

2. Iran has never said it wanted to destroy Israel or America.

I have clearly shown this is false. Many Iranian leaders on many occasions have said that they want to destroy Israel and America. They obviously do not say it in English but they express it in public in Iran and else where, at ‘Terror Conferences’, military and political rallies, on TV, Books, News outlets, movies and over the pulpit in the Mosques. To ignore their own words and beliefs is foolish. The Iranian lobby, their English news service and Russia TV are the ones spreading lies and propaganda Infowarrior.

Iran has conducted a clandestine war against Israel and to a point America thru their proxy terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah. Both of these organization’s major goal is the destruction of Israel. It is naïve to think that when Iran gets a nuclear weapon on ICBMs they would not use them to fulfill their goals they have been following for over 40 years. It is not just politics or the hatred of Jews/’Zionism’/Israel that has set them on this course to “destroy Israel and America” but their desire to see their Islamic Revolution to spreads to the rest of the Middle East AND the world. They see themselves as a leader of this Caliphate.

If you have read my posts you will also know that Ahmadinejad and Khomeini both believe and have said that they are the forerunners of the 12th Imam and want to hasten his return. Khomeini has even said he has spoken to the 12th Imam! So why would the leaders of Iran not uses whatever it takes to realize their dreams and goals. As I have said only the naïve think they won’t use them.

3. The Book of Mormon teaches that Israel or the US would be going against God’s word if we preemptively attacked Iranian nuclear facilities.

Comparing Mormon vs the Lamanites to the conflict Israel and America have now with Iran is like comparing apples and oranges. Neither Mormon nor George Washington had an enemy which could, with the push of one button, kill a major portion of your population in just minuets. They had months of warning before an attack. Lamanites did on occasion catch the Nephites off guard but they were not able to slaughter over 50% of the Nephites in one surprise attack. The Lamanites had to kill one Nephite at a time with their swords. Iran can vaporize a city in seconds or using EMP, could condemn millions to disease and starvation. Mormon did not have an opportunity, in one raid, to eliminate a threat of this size. If he did I would guess that he would go to the Lord for permission to do it.

Actually there were two preemptive strikes mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Teancum twice tried to reduce the Lamanites war making ability by sneaking into their camps to kill both Amalickiah and Ammaron. He was successful both times but sacrificed his life the second time. THIS is a proper comparison when it comes to Israel. They have been fighting Iran through Hezbollah and Hamas for decades. The war is soon to get even worse if Iran gets nuclear weapons. If Israel can do as Teancum did and “sneak” into Iran to take out their nuke weapons then it would reduce their war making ability and save the lives of millions.

Infowarrior you have fallen for the propaganda of Iran, Russia and the ‘blame America first’ crowd. Your paradigm is so ingrained that I don’t think a picture of a nuclear warhead in Iran or seeing Iranian secret plans to bomb Israel and America would dissuade you of your beliefs. You would say they were faked or ‘propaganda of the warmongers’.

The LDGs do want war. They have placed the world into a no win situation to get there. They have covered ALL the bases so they get the desired result no matter what happens. We take out Iran’s nukes and start a M.E. war that could go global. We DON”T take out the nukes and IRAN starts the global war. Either way we loose. We have a better chance to avert WW III and save more lives if we and/or Israel takes out Iranian nuke sites. If Iran gets the ‘bomb’, then its 100% sure WW III will happen.


OMD, great job in avoiding answering all of infowarriors questions for you!
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby InfoWarrior82 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:40 pm

Oldemandalton wrote:Infowarrior let us step back so we can see where we agree and disagree.

I believe that these are your positions.

1. Iran is not developing nuclear weapons and is only using enriched uranium for peaceful purposes.

I have shown in my previous posts that Iran is testing implosion devises used in nuclear detonation.

Iran is enriching uranium way beyond the 5% needed for fuel rods. 20% and still enriching.

Iran has launched a satellite into orbit meaning they have intercontinental missile technology.

Iran has fired missiles from ships in the Caspian Sea twice in the last 8 years to test the feasibility of an EMP attack on the USA.



I'm not fully convinced that Iran is a threat to the United States militarily. They could try all they like, but it will be the last time they do. We can easily thwart any ICBM. It's called "Star Wars".

Have you studied the military capabilities of Israel? If not, I think you should. They're just like the U.S. except closer.



2. Iran has never said it wanted to destroy Israel or America.

I have clearly shown this is false. Many Iranian leaders on many occasions have said that they want to destroy Israel and America. They obviously do not say it in English but they express it in public in Iran and else where, at ‘Terror Conferences’, military and political rallies, on TV, Books, News outlets, movies and over the pulpit in the Mosques. To ignore their own words and beliefs is foolish. The Iranian lobby, their English news service and Russia TV are the ones spreading lies and propaganda Infowarrior.

Iran has conducted a clandestine war against Israel and to a point America thru their proxy terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah. Both of these organization’s major goal is the destruction of Israel. It is naïve to think that when Iran gets a nuclear weapon on ICBMs they would not use them to fulfill their goals they have been following for over 40 years. It is not just politics or the hatred of Jews/’Zionism’/Israel that has set them on this course to “destroy Israel and America” but their desire to see their Islamic Revolution to spreads to the rest of the Middle East AND the world. They see themselves as a leader of this Caliphate.

If you have read my posts you will also know that Ahmadinejad and Khomeini both believe and have said that they are the forerunners of the 12th Imam and want to hasten his return. Khomeini has even said he has spoken to the 12th Imam! So why would the leaders of Iran not uses whatever it takes to realize their dreams and goals. As I have said only the naïve think they won’t use them.


I guess the United States should have gone in to attack Germany before they attacked Poland, Great Britain, Russia, etc... before Japan attacked us. The only reason we won WW2, by the grace of God, is because we were not the aggressor. Have you seen the movie Minority Report?

The Lamanites swore a blood oath to wipe out the Nephites and they kept trying to do so. They were unsuccessful every time no matter how great the losses of the Nephites were. The Lord protected them until they became wicked. Same with the Israelites! Why is it all of a sudden completely different this time around?

I have a very hard time with being the guy who throws the first punch. It seems like you don't have a problem with that.




3. The Book of Mormon teaches that Israel or the US would be going against God’s word if we preemptively attacked Iranian nuclear facilities.

Comparing Mormon vs the Lamanites to the conflict Israel and America have now with Iran is like comparing apples and oranges. Neither Mormon nor George Washington had an enemy which could, with the push of one button, kill a major portion of your population in just minuets. They had months of warning before an attack. Lamanites did on occasion catch the Nephites off guard but they were not able to slaughter over 50% of the Nephites in one surprise attack. The Lamanites had to kill one Nephite at a time with their swords. Iran can vaporize a city in seconds or using EMP, could condemn millions to disease and starvation. Mormon did not have an opportunity, in one raid, to eliminate a threat of this size. If he did I would guess that he would go to the Lord for permission to do it.

Where's your faith? You don't think the Nephites were scared of what the Lamanites could do? Where's your faith that if you are in the right, no foe will prevail against you?

Actually there were two preemptive strikes mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Teancum twice tried to reduce the Lamanites war making ability by sneaking into their camps to kill both Amalickiah and Ammaron. He was successful both times but sacrificed his life the second time. THIS is a proper comparison when it comes to Israel. They have been fighting Iran through Hezbollah and Hamas for decades. The war is soon to get even worse if Iran gets nuclear weapons. If Israel can do as Teancum did and “sneak” into Iran to take out their nuke weapons then it would reduce their war making ability and save the lives of millions.

The Nephites were literally at war with the Lamanites during that incident. It's not apples and oranges at all. This is like you comparing the operation of D Day as it's own separate war.

Infowarrior you have fallen for the propaganda of Iran, Russia and the ‘blame America first’ crowd. Your paradigm is so ingrained that I don’t think a picture of a nuclear warhead in Iran or seeing Iranian secret plans to bomb Israel and America would dissuade you of your beliefs. You would say they were faked or ‘propaganda of the warmongers’.

That's fine if that's what you think, but I think you've fallen for the "pro-war" propaganda which is, in my opinion, much worse to fall for than the "anti-war" propaganda.

The LDGs do want war. They have placed the world into a no win situation to get there. They have covered ALL the bases so they get the desired result no matter what happens. We take out Iran’s nukes and start a M.E. war that could go global. We DON”T take out the nukes and IRAN starts the global war. Either way we loose. We have a better chance to avert WW III and save more lives if we and/or Israel takes out Iranian nuke sites. If Iran gets the ‘bomb’, then its 100% sure WW III will happen.

I agree with you on this. Unfortunately, one of the biggest tricks up the elite's sleeves is false flag attack. They could quite easily make it look like Iran made the first move. They don't even need to do that. The U.S. has been poking and prodding Iran where it will become inevitable for them to react. QUITE SIMPLY: I do not want to be the one on record throwing the first punch that sets the world on fire!


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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby truefreedom » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:33 pm

IRAN has been on the agenda for a long time.

Iran gets labeled as member of axis of eviland then Iraq gets invaded shortly after,what are they to think?
Why wouldn't they want a nuclear weapon?

If we invade Iran , what will North Korea do? also part of Bush's axis of evil.

In 2002 U.S. plans to attack seven country's in five years!

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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:02 am

Infowarrior
OMD, you have said previously that you believe the LDGs want to go to war with Iran. Why, then, are you buying into all of the mainstream propaganda which tells us why we should go to war with Iran? You already said we shouldn't go to war pre-emptively. Why do you support candidates who would go to war pre-emptively? It seems like you are actually ideologically closer to Ron Paul than anyone else, but just want Ron Paul to talk tough on Iran. You want more rhetoric. You have not addressed this yet:

So, what makes Ron Paul stand out among all other Republican candidates with regards to Iran?


He is naïve to think they are not producing nuclear weapons and that if they are that they wont use them against Israel and /or the US.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone else supports the idea of pre-emptively striking Iran. So, if you personally DO NOT want to pre-emptively strike Iran, why would you vote for anyone who does?


I do not WANT to but if everything else fails (sanctions, computer viruses, embargoes, black ops, missile defence, etc) then I see no other option. Iran with nuclear weapons WILL bring about war and deaths of millions. A strike on their nuke sites won’t.

If any of the front runners DO NOT support a pre-emptive strike on Iran, then doesn't it really all come down to just "talkin' tough" on Iran? Do you just want someone who "talks tough"?


I don’t know of a candidate who is eager to strike at Iran. I would expect them not to. That is different than saying they want to bring every single Soldier, Sailor, Marine, and Airman home and that it would be OK with them if Iran had nukes.


So.. China has nuclear weapons... North Korea has nuclear weapons... are we the police of the world with them? Why haven't we gone in to take them out? I know this may sound wacky... but... what in the world gives us the right to tell another sovereign nation that they can't have nuclear weapons? Does might make right?


1.Iran has said repeatedly they want to destroy Israel and the United States.
2.Iran has been at war with Israel for decades through their proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, and the stated goal of all three is the destruction of Israel.
3.They have tested the use of missiles launched from the Caspian Sea twice to test the feasibility of an EMP attack on the US.
4.They have the will and soon will have the means to do what they have said their goals is. The destruction of Israel and America.

You may think I'm drinking the kool aid from certain groups, but I'd rather side with people giving me reasons not to go to war than listen to people telling me that we should go to war.


Don’t drink the kool aid from either camp InfoWarrior. You can know the nuclear capabilities of Iran, their goals and evil beliefs, and what they have said without wanting to go to war. What is wrong about knowing the truth and still oppose a pre-emptive strike on Iran? I do not want to either. Like I said no one wants too. Bush the ‘warmonger’ didn’t neither has the 'evil' nation of Israel. Everyone is hoping Iran backs off its ambition to build nukes. That would be the best result all round.

Star Wars is not 100% completed and the Israeli Iron Dome is not set up to take out large missiles. If we can set the Iranian program back as we have so far with computer viruses and black ops then we may not need to strike.

InfoWarrior
I guess the United States should have gone in to attack Germany before they attacked Poland, Great Britain, Russia, etc... before Japan attacked us. The only reason we won WW2, by the grace of God, is because we were not the aggressor. Have you seen the movie Minority Report?


No but England, France and the other European countries should have stood up to Hitler in the beginning. We may have not had a WW II if they had. Japan would not have attacked us without the backing of a German ally.

The Lamanites swore a blood oath to wipe out the Nephites and they kept trying to do so. Same as Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. They were unsuccessful every time no matter how great the losses of the Nephites were. The Lord protected them until they became wicked. Same with the Israelites! Why is it all of a sudden completely different this time around?


The Nephites defeated the Lamanites through force of arms. The Israelis, so far, have also.

I have a very hard time with being the guy who throws the first punch. It seems like you don't have a problem with that.


No, the first punch was given by Iran through Hamas and Hezbollah decades ago. This is an on-going war and just as the Nephites had to fight in their own land so have the Israelis.

Where's your faith? You don't think the Nephites were scared of what the Lamanites could do? Where's your faith that if you are in the right, no foe will prevail against you?


I am sure Moroni was afraid for his people when the Lamanites over ran many of their border cities. He never gave up and just went about his business to defeat the Lamanites to save his people. The Israelis are doing the same thing against their enemies. The difference is that the Lamanites could not wipe out several Nephite cities in just minutes as the Iranians can do today.

The Nephites were literally at war with the Lamanites during that incident. It's not apples and oranges at all. This is like you comparing the operation of D Day as it's own separate war.


It is not as different as you think. Iran has funded, supplied the arms and missiles and has trained the Hamas and Hezbollah troops in their war against Israel. Amalickiah and Ammaron had done the same thing. They instigated hatred toward the Nephites, trained and armed them and sent them to the Land of the Nephites to war. Teancum knew that if he could kill Amalickiah and Ammaron it would hurt the Lamanites’ war effort in which case it did.

OMD
Infowarrior you have fallen for the propaganda of Iran, Russia and the ‘blame America first’ crowd. Your paradigm is so ingrained that I don’t think a picture of a nuclear warhead in Iran or seeing Iranian secret plans to bomb Israel and America would dissuade you of your beliefs. You would say they were faked or ‘propaganda of the warmongers’.

InfoWarrior;
That's fine if that's what you think, but I think you've fallen for the "pro-war" propaganda which is, in my opinion, much worse to fall for than the "anti-war" propaganda.


I don’t think its "pro-war" propaganda but rather the truth of what the goals are of Iran (using their own words) and what the nuclear capabilities they are achieving. In order to make a decision you need to know the whole truth. THEN you can weigh the pros and cons to make a decision whether to strike Iran’s nukes is better than absorbing a first strike. So far both Israel and America has decided to wait. This tells you they are not eager to attack and are trying everything else first.

OMD:
The LDGs do want war. They have placed the world into a no win situation to get there. They have covered ALL the bases so they get the desired result no matter what happens. We take out Iran’s nukes and start a M.E. war that could go global. We DON”T take out the nukes and IRAN starts the global war. Either way we loose. We have a better chance to avert WW III and save more lives if we and/or Israel takes out Iranian nuke sites. If Iran gets the ‘bomb’, then its 100% sure WW III will happen.
InfoWarrior
I agree with you on this. Unfortunately, one of the biggest tricks up the elite's sleeves is false flag attack. They could quite easily make it look like Iran made the first move. They don't even need to do that. The U.S. has been poking and prodding Iran where it will become inevitable for them to react. QUITE SIMPLY: I do not want to be the one on record throwing the first punch that sets the world on fire!


Neither do Israel or America. That’s why they have been using non-military means, so far, to try and persuade Iran from building nuclear warheads for ICBMs. Like I said before, America could absorb a missile strike if it was on a city but not a full EMP attack. Israel could not afford either. Imagine being an Israeli leader who has to decide whether to let Iran finish building nukes and see several of their cities go up in ashes and be responsible for a major portion of their population being killed because of inaction, or attack Iranian nuke sites and start a regional war that could go global. I do not envy their situation at all. :(
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:12 pm

"Our talks with the infidel West and our conflict with them ultimately revolve around one issue — one that demands our total support, with power and determination, with one voice — and it is: Does Islam, or does it not, force people by the power of the sword to submit to its authority corporeally if not spiritually? Yes. There are only three choices in Islam:

[1] either willing submission [conversion];

[2] or payment of the jizya (tax), through physical, though not spiritual, submission to the authority of Islam;

[3] or the sword — for it is not right to let him [an infidel] live.

The matter is summed up for every person alive: Either submit, or live under the suzerainty of Islam, or die.":


Osama Bin Laden (The Al Qaeda Reader, p. 42)
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:52 pm

Hizballah planned Mumbai-style attack on Habad Bangkok, Khao San restaurants
DEBKAfile Special Report January 16, 2012, 1:22 PM (GMT+02:00)

Image
Hizballah suspect Atris Hussein

The Thai police's capture of a Lebanese-Swedish Hizballah suspect, who was charged Monday, Jan. 16, thwarted a terrorist attack on Bet Habad in Bangkok, involving the taking of hostages and blowing up the building. It was to have followed the same lines as al Qaeda's 2008 assault on the Mumbai Habad center which killed 8 Israelis and Jews - only more ambitious. The Habad Bangkok is much larger: its hostel has rooms for dozens of lodgers. A second team was to have hit the Khao San Road restaurants popular with Israelis and Americans in a coordinated operation.

This is the first time Western and Israeli agencies have found evidence of the Lebanese Shiite Hizballah using and training operatives in the same terrorist methods as al Qaeda.

DEBKAfile's counter-terror sources note that two or possibly three Hizballah cells were to have gone into coordinated action on the same date this month. The only suspect in Thai custody is Atris Hussein, 47, who was arrested as soon as he landed at Bangkok international airport Thursday, Jan. 12.

He first denied association with Hizballah, claiming he was on holiday. Sunday, he broke down under interrogation and admitted he was on a mission to attack Jewish, Israeli and American sites and that explosive materials had been prepared in advance by another Hizballah team, which had pinpointed the targets and was to have briefed the perpetrators.

Thai authorities believe that each team was made up of two or three members, all carrying European or Persian Gulf emirate passports.

Monday, Jan 16, Hussein led the police to an address he received from his Hizballah controllers in Lebanon in the Samut Sakorn province on Bangkok’s outskirts. There they found a cache of 4,000 kilograms of urea fertilizer and 10 gallons of ammonium nitrate, a chemical compound used in explosives. The materials had not been assembled, indicating the plot was still not quite ready to go.

The Thai police were waiting for the suspect at the airport after receiving alerts from US and Israeli counter-terrorist agencies, which had advance information about the coming attack. According to DEBKAfile's intelligence sources, the tip-off originated with Lebanese nationals living in Bangkok who had been approached for assistance. Those informants, who did not trust the local authorities to act, went straight to Western and Israeli contacts, who then published terror alerts to US and Israeli travelers.

The terror alerts issued by the US embassy and Israel's Counter-Terror Bureau are still in force.

Sources familiar with the investigation report a major manhunt in progress for Hossein's confederates in Thailand, Europe and the Middle East. Some of those sources suspect the advance team members who prepared the explosives materials managed to escape, either by plane from Bangkok or by crossing into Laos and catching a flight there, although others believe they are still hiding out in Thailand waiting for another chance to strike.
http://www.debka.com/article/21654/
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:12 pm

Saudi Journalist: Religious Police Made 15 School Girls Burn to Death Because They Were Not Wearing Hijabs

Posted on January 18, 2012 at 11:27pm by Tiffany Gabbay

Image

During an interview that aired on Egyptian Dream2 TV January 10, Saudi journalist Nadin Al-Badir relayed horrific instances of abuse and murder — including forcing over a dozen school girls to perish in a fire because they were not wearing traditional Islamic head coverings — carried out by the country’s religious police or, the “Authority for the Promotion of Virtue.” The journalist also revealed that most of these police are “ex-cons who used to be drug users or drug dealers.”

Al-Badir explained that, “Even Sheik Abd Al-Muhsen Al-Abikan, advisor to the royal court, suggested that the Authority should be abolished.” She added, “He said that most of them were drug dealers, drug users, thieves, and ex-cons who repented, all of a sudden, and became violently extreme. These people, according to Sheik Al-Abikan, should not be allowed to have such authorities, because they use it in inappropriate ways.”

At the opening of the segment, Al-Badir told the story of 28-year-old Hassan Nabil Hmeid, who was ultimately beaten to death for growing his hair long.

“At the end of the day, all the matters they pursue are superficial ones.” Al-Badir said of the Authority.
“What matters is that this young man’s life came to an end because of backward, reactionary people, who would like to take us back hundreds of years in time. I don’t think the situation back then was as bad as they would like it to be.”

Al-Badir also relived a heinous incident in which a fire broke out in a girls’ school in Saudi Arabia but all of the female students inside were forced to remain in the building and burn to death simply because they were not wearing their hijabs (traditional Islamic head coverings).

“It would have been easy to extinguish the fire without any girl getting hurt,” a pained Al-Badir began. “But members of the Authority for the Promotion of Virtue stood at the door of the school and prevented any student from leaving, because the girls were not wearing the hijab.”

“How were they supposed to get a hijab when the school was going up in flames?” she asked incredulously.
“They prevented the fire brigade from entering to extinguish the fire, and they prevented the parents from going in…”

“But it is a duty to save them from death,” the interviewer attempted to reason. “Who cares if they are wearing the abaya or not?”

“Their mission is to save you from the Hellfire, not from death,” Al-Badir responded. “They believe that you are martyred in such a case. I don’t know what was going through their minds at that moment.”
Al-Badir continued:

I’m talking about 13-year-old girls, not university students. These were schoolgirls. 15 girls from the school died – because of the Authority for Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue, and not because of the fire. They could easily have been rescued. Has any member of the Authority been placed on trial? Not that we’ve seen. The department of girls’ education was annexed to the Education Ministry, but the Authority is never held accountable. It punishes, but is never punished itself. You can never get justice. Even if they stab or kill you, nobody can hold them accountable.

Al-Badir said that complaints filed against the Authority are futile, as no court action is ever taken in victims’ defense. She also noted that the rate of “all forms of sexual harassment is the highest it has ever been.”

“The Authority is the enemy of society. How can it protect it?”

Watch Al-Badir relay these chilling accounts below. Video and translation courtesy of the ever-vigilant MEMRI:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3272.htm


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/saudi-journalist-religious-police-made-15-school-girls-burn-to-death-because-they-were-not-wearing-hijabs/
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:08 pm

World Al-Qaeda-Linked al-Shabab Islamists Shut Down Red Cross’ Food Aid to Famine-Hit Somalia

Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:22am by Billy Hallowell

NAIROBI, Kenya (The Blaze/AP) — Somali insurgents have shut down food aid distribution by a major aid group because they say the organization is distributing spoiled food in the famine-hit south.

The al-Shabab militant group said late Monday that they were shutting down the Red Cross’ operation permanently. Over the summer of 2011, the group also shut-down aid that was needed to help children and families who are desperately in need.

The radical group, which is estimated to have 14,000 members, controls a substantial portion of south and central Somalia. As we’ve reported before, al-Shabaab enforces sharia law and has been responsible for beheadings and other forms of torture and murder. The al-Qaeda-linked terror group has vowed to purge Somalia of Christianity, while fighting the “enemies” of Islam.

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“Despite being offered unrivaled access to all the regions governed by the Mujahideen in South and Central Somalia, the International Committee of the Red Cross has repeatedly betrayed the trust conferred on it by the local population,” said the statement from the al-Qaida-linked militia.

The militia said they conducted a “thorough inspection” of the aid group’s warehouses and food depots and found that up to 70 percent of the food was “unfit for human consumption, posing a considerable health hazard and exposing the vulnerable recipients to acute illnesses.”

A Red Cross spokeswoman said Tuesday that the organization did not have immediate comment.

The Red Cross previously said some trucks were stuck on bad roads for several weeks in the rainy season and the food aboard them was spoiled. That food – about 2,000 tons, according to al-Shabab – was publicly burned after the militia had taken photos of the moldy beans.

The Red Cross began distributing monthly rations to 1.1 million people in October and were midway through the second distribution when a convoy of trucks was stopped by al-Shabab in mid-December in Jowhar. Negotiations for their release took several weeks but were ultimately unsuccessful.

The Red Cross formally suspended operations in al-Shabab areas of southern Somalia on Jan. 12. They are the only agency bringing in food to those famine-hit areas on such a large scale.

The U.N. said more than 13 million people were in need of aid and 750,000 at risk of starvation at the height of the Somali famine. Those at risk of starvation have subsequently dropped to 250,000 after an influx of aid and after seasonal rains arrived, meaning crops could be planted.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/al-qaed ... t-somalia/
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:33 pm

Taliban Brutally Decapitates 70-Year-Old Baker

Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:00am by Mytheos Holt

When the Taliban are loose, no one is safe — not even 70-year-old men. Waris Khan, a 70-year-old baker from Pakistan, found that out to his woe when he was decapitated at the start of this month by the Taliban, who claimed the septuagenerian was a spy. Human rights groups have responded with outrage, as have the local tribes.

According to his friends, “Waris Khan had always lived a clean life and confined himself to a limited number of friends.” Unfortunately, more information has been difficult to procure due to the terror Taliban enforcers are held in by locals. The murder of Khan may have even been an attempt to consolidate Taliban influence, as a pamphlet found near his corpse warned that the same fate awaited anyone who dared to “spy on the Taliban.”

That was certainly the interpretation that multiple political parties and tribal elders adopted when questioned about the incident. Central Asia Online reports:

Such killings are meant to terrorise rather than to enforce justice, since mostly tribesmen of unblemished character have been killed, said Abdur Rahim, the FATA leader of the Awami National Party.

“A personal vendetta … could be a factor … but in most cases militants carry out such executions to stifle criticism,” he said.


Other sources quickly condemned this act not only on political grounds, but on religious ones. Allama Noor ul Haq Qadri, a tribal religious scholar, had some especially choice words. “They are involved in the killing of innocent people and … confessed to the crimes they had committed against those who raised their voices against such inhuman and un-Islamic acts,” he said.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/taliban-brutally-decapitates-70-year-old-baker/
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby InfoWarrior82 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:24 pm

Sheesh! For someone who claims to not want pre-emptive war, you sure seem like you're a propaganda arm of the establishment!
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Re: Fanatical Islam

Postby Oldemandalton » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:00 pm

InfoWarrior82
Sheesh! For someone who claims to not want pre-emptive war, you sure seem like you're a propaganda arm of the establishment!


Pointing out that there ARE evil men who have corrupted Islam and want to destroy Israel and kill all of the Jews does not mean I want a war. The P.C. crowd, MSM and naïve pacifists have turned a deaf ear to the Jihadists and fanatical Islamists and their penchant for the use of terror and force, and then try and lump them with the peaceful Muslims. Just trying to inject reality in to the discussion, InfoWarrior.

BTW, I completely appose NATO or the West getting involved militarily in Syria except to try and get humanitarian aid to the victims of the civil war there. Let the Arab League deal with their own.
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