We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29, 45,

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

A waking dream - in color -- in which a military ship (probably US) was hit by a diving plane or missile, and burst into flames. A provocative act, reminiscent of 9/11/2001, and leading to further "retaliatory" war.
Source wishes to remain anonymous.
(FWIW).

[believercaptain of 100]

Dr Jones------Did the source give any other details?

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Dr Jones------Did the source give any other details?

No, just that he sensed that this was a "false-flag" operation and led to a major war.

[seer stonecaptain of 100]

Can you imagine - 84% of Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job, and "nearly half of all Americans do not believe global warming is man-made"?

Even though I strongly believe in both conspiracy facts, it was much easier to understand that global warming was a fraud than to believe that 9/11 was an inside job. After many unanswered questions during my personal research a few years ago, I came to the conclusion that 9/11 difinately has been covered-up from day one from our federal government. Global warming was just an easier thing to believe. It was a reality check and much more difficult to come to the conclusion that our government was so corrupt and evil to kill off thousands of their own citizens to perpetuate a never-ending war on terrorism and support thier greedy interest lining their pocket with endless reserves of revenue. Rebuilding nations they destroyed, confiscating the opium fields and oil reserves has become an investment opportunity for the elite globalist. To come up with those statitics, It seems to me that either more people have done research on 9/11 and our completely clueless to global warming.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Thanks, seer-stone. Glad to hear you are "awakened to our awful situation" as we are commanded to do in Ether 8 IIRC.

Back to John's Book of Revelation, let's review chapter 13 where John speaks of TWO separate beasts:

Revelation 13

FIRST BEAST HAS SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS, THUS = THE SCARLET BEAST OF CHAPTERS 17-19 IMHO):

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

[AS WE HAVE NOTED BEFORE, RUSSIA FITS THE DESCRIPTION OF THIS IMPORTANT HEAD OF THE SEVEN-HEADED BEAST. JOHN SPEAKS OF THE "DEADLY WOUND" AND OF THE NATION THAT "WAS NOT YET IS" SEE POST #1]

4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

[RUSSIA AND ALLIES TO DOMINATE FOR 42 MONTHS = 3 1/2 YEARS]

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.[WORLD WAR III? INVASION OF AMERICA?]

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Speaking of Revelation 13, Richard Draper (BYU Religious Studies Department) states an important understanding:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W195Y-gn ... re=related

“The second beast morphs into a false prophet and eventually into the great whore that we meet in chapters 17 and 18 of Revelation.”

SECOND BEAST:

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[WHO SUPPORTED MARX AND RUSSIA AND CHINA? Was it not THE POWER-ELITE WHO BECAME THE SECOND BEAST... WHICH MORPHS INTO THE WHORE BABYLON?]

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So it is the SECOND beast = the whore Babylon that will cause ALL "to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the [second] beast, or the number of his name."


This ties Revelation chapter 13 in with our previous discussion of the red Beast with seven heads, and the whore Babylon (see post #1, for example).

[NoGreaterLovecaptain of 1,000]

Doc
I would suggest using the cross references in Daniel Chapter 7 on LDS.org. I did it last night and pasted each one into the chapter. It was pretty cool.

Thanks, seer-stone. Glad to hear you are "awakened to our awful situation" as we are commanded to do in Ether 8 IIRC.

Back to John's Book of Revelation, let's review chapter 13 where John speaks of TWO separate beasts:

Revelation 13

FIRST BEAST HAS SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS, THUS = THE SCARLET BEAST OF CHAPTERS 17-19 IMHO):

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

[AS WE HAVE NOTED BEFORE, RUSSIA FITS THE DESCRIPTION OF THIS IMPORTANT HEAD OF THE SEVEN-HEADED BEAST. JOHN SPEAKS OF THE "DEADLY WOUND" AND OF THE NATION THAT "WAS NOT YET IS" SEE POST #1]

4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

[RUSSIA AND ALLIES TO DOMINATE FOR 42 MONTHS = 3 1/2 YEARS]

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.[WORLD WAR III? INVASION OF AMERICA?]

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Speaking of Revelation 13, Richard Draper (BYU Religious Studies Department) states an important understanding:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W195Y-gn ... re=related

“The second beast morphs into a false prophet and eventually into the great whore that we meet in chapters 17 and 18 of Revelation.”

SECOND BEAST:

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[WHO SUPPORTED MARX AND RUSSIA AND CHINA? Was it not THE POWER-ELITE WHO BECAME THE SECOND BEAST... WHICH MORPHS INTO THE WHORE BABYLON?]

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So it is the SECOND beast = the whore Babylon that will cause ALL "to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the [second] beast, or the number of his name."


This ties Revelation chapter 13 in with our previous discussion of the red Beast with seven heads, and the whore Babylon (see post #1, for example).

[NoGreaterLovecaptain of 1,000]

Then is you really want to get serious about it, paste commentaries from the prophets and apostles into it also.

[NoGreaterLovecaptain of 1,000]

The one thing I learned was Daniel spoke about the same thing John saw. Daniel repeated the same vision over and over again throughout his book. I never realized that.

[jcricket6048captain of 100]

Thanks, seer-stone. Glad to hear you are "awakened to our awful situation" as we are commanded to do in Ether 8 IIRC.

Back to John's Book of Revelation, let's review chapter 13 where John speaks of TWO separate beasts:

Revelation 13

FIRST BEAST HAS SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS, THUS = THE SCARLET BEAST OF CHAPTERS 17-19 IMHO):

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

[AS WE HAVE NOTED BEFORE, RUSSIA FITS THE DESCRIPTION OF THIS IMPORTANT HEAD OF THE SEVEN-HEADED BEAST. JOHN SPEAKS OF THE "DEADLY WOUND" AND OF THE NATION THAT "WAS NOT YET IS" SEE POST #1]

4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

[RUSSIA AND ALLIES TO DOMINATE FOR 42 MONTHS = 3 1/2 YEARS]

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.[WORLD WAR III? INVASION OF AMERICA?]

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Speaking of Revelation 13, Richard Draper (BYU Religious Studies Department) states an important understanding:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W195Y-gn ... re=related

“The second beast morphs into a false prophet and eventually into the great whore that we meet in chapters 17 and 18 of Revelation.”

SECOND BEAST:

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[WHO SUPPORTED MARX AND RUSSIA AND CHINA? Was it not THE POWER-ELITE WHO BECAME THE SECOND BEAST... WHICH MORPHS INTO THE WHORE BABYLON?]

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So it is the SECOND beast = the whore Babylon that will cause ALL "to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the [second] beast, or the number of his name."


This ties Revelation chapter 13 in with our previous discussion of the red Beast with seven heads, and the whore Babylon (see post #1, for example).

I remember reading an article about Nostradamus who was famous for writing about the last days. However it may say he was born an Jew and he converted to Cathlic because his family could not buy or sell anything because the Pope has decreed a rule that if anyone who was not a member to be killed or put in prison. This has put his family in fear sotherefore they converted to Cathlic because of this. This was common during that time in Europe and it surely fits the scripture in Revelation about buying or selling with the mark on the right hand or on the forehead.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Bumping this thread which is one of my favorites here at LDS_FF. There's a good discussion here of many scriptures relating to our day and spiritual preparation. Many of the newcomers will not have seen this thread yet... Pls read post #1 if you have time, on page 1.

What a privilege really to live in these times -- The last days! and quite a challenge to us, also. Better pull together!

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

7cylon7 summarizes Joel Skousen's predictions on another thread,
Thanks for the summary:

The earliest he has ever said that they may attack us would be 2015 and that he only gave like a 20% chance of happening. He gives about a 90% chance of attack in the year 2020. He is a believer that they will attack after the US and it's economy have fully collapsed. The also believes that TPTB can slowing crash this country and that they can prolong it till 2020. Things will get slowly worse and worse and worse. Until finally WAR will be the final end of US sovereignty. The US military will be destroyed but the main US will still be intacted. The NWO folks will then come in and say you are defenseless. If you want to live you have to join our NWO and give us military power. Only then will we be able to survive. The way this will be accomplished (as I know from other interviews he has done) will be by using first our black ops super secrete military advance unit that are in area 51 and other places. These technologies will be far in advance than anything that China and Russia has. They will play Russia as the bad guy again as they attacked the US first and China only comes along for the ride as they gobble up the pacific rim, including New Zealand and Australia. You folks are going to be speaking Chinese very soon. Brush up on your Chinese. Second, the NWO will induce China to back stab Russian and the NWO and China will take our Russia. Joel then thinks there will be some time to recover and then of course China will have to be taken out as well. The NWO will finally take our China as the last state not in the NWO format. Then the NWO folk will have total domination. This is what TPTB are working for.

This may be what TPTB are working for, but not the way it plays out according to John's great vision as we have discussed above. Of course, perhaps we have interpreted Revelation wrongly -- but it does seem clear in Revelation 17, 18 and 19 that the red Beast (Russia, China, and allies) will turn on the whore Babylon/Gadiantons and WIN.

Joel also leaves out the HOPEFUL part of John's vision -- that then the New Jerusalem will be built and the Savior will return!

See discussion above; perhaps start with the first post.

[sonoflibertycaptain of 100]

Thanks for sharing Dr. Jones!

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

Again, I feel that what the Book of Revelations discusses is a largely European picture of last days events. I haven't come to this conclusion on my own, I've had great discussions with some great gospel scholars about these very things. About "Revelations" all of them had the same conclusion.

Again I say, I consider Steve, Mark, Gary, Brad and several others here to be real gospel scholars. My concerns about where we're at lay within our understanding of the scriptures, the words of our prophets available to us, and not the understandings of the world. The world, even the all powerful LDGs who seemingly have total control over us actually have no clue concerning what is about to happen to them! My concerns are about us, the people of the covenant, my questions remain, do "we" have a clue?

I feel that "we" should be getting our "last day directions" from within our own scripture and the words of our Prophets, what people outside of this Church discuss is of little concern to me, except to help me recognize the types and shadows "as-they-happen".

Mark suggests we're ignoring the types and shadows Isaiah has left for us to understand. I submit we're not ignoring Isaiah, we're simply adding and comparing the types and shadows of Isaiah with those in the rest of our scripture. Myself, I love Isaiah, my favorite book in the OT. However, there are other types available to us that just might, if we give them a chance, help give us a much clearer picture of last days events in our part of the world.

Concerning Isaiah, we have this from Jacob;

The Prophet Jacob 2 Nephi 4

4 And now, behold, I would speak unto you concerning things which are, and which are to come wherefore, I will read you the words of Isaiah. And they are the words which my brother has desired that I should speak unto you. And I speak unto you for your sakes, that ye may learn and glorify the name of your God.

And again, there's this commandment from our Lord;

Our Lord 3 Nephi 23: 1-3

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. ;

things which are, and which are to come--- have been and shall be , That's why we study Isaiah, looking at those events Isaiah was inspired to put in his writings so the scripturally informed would understand whats coming. Isaiah is confusing to most people for a reason, let us not be among the confused!

Steve suggests the same people responsible for 9/11 could also be responsible for an emp attack and perhaps he's correct, I don't think so, but perhaps! But if they do something like that then they had better be able to blame the attack on someone so there can be retaliation, because the scripturally and spiritually uninformed among us will demand retaliation.

I suggest it'll happen as the types in Helaman suggest, the murder of our “chief judge” as recorded in Helaman 7-8.

However it happens, the results will be the same! Riots will destroy the country. My belief is based on the drought and plagues mentioned as types and shadows ie, For a desolating sickness shall cover the land--- It's my opinion that after the murder, the riots, after the devastating drought, after the plague, those who are left will repent! I do not believe there'll be an invasion from outside our shores because of the commotion in the seas. There's a very important reason why we are so separated from the rest of the world.

It's also my opinion that all these will be seen as naturally occurring events by the wicked, the penitent will see them as punishment from God. Any event such as an emp attack will not be seen as punishment form God, but simply as an attack from an enemy, and retaliation will be demanded, and innocents will die.

Mark is sure the Assyrian army type will invade from communist lands, I think not, I think the Assyrian army type will be commanded by the king figure set up by our ldg's " in country" he will marshal an army from among millions of survivors to come after us for our food. They who started the whole mess and will lose control of the situation and be destroyed as the Midionites were destroyed by Our Lord commanding Gideon and his very small army.

Elder Maxwell referred to the problems confronted during the cleansing as; Fixed Principles amid Commotion:

And concerning the people in general; “They are without principle, and past feeling” (Moroni 9:20).
They are without principle," Moroni wrote. Without fixed principles and a clear destination, Nephi's metaphor of pressing forward amid "all these things" would give way to plodding persistence or mindless survival. But with gospel certitude his metaphor denotes a determined, zestful stride, even in those moments when there may seem to be nothing to be zestful about. Furthermore, in our day the striding forward "with a steadfastness in Christ" is to be accomplished amid the various expressions of how all things shall be in "commotion"in the world (see D&C 88:91; 2 Nephi 28:20). Much of this "commotion" may be geophysical, with earthquakes, seas heaving themselves beyond their bounds, and other such cataclysmic events. Disciples are also told, "When ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by" (Luke 21:9; see also D&C 45:26; 88:91).

91 And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men's hearts shall fail them; for fear shall come upon all people.

By understanding types and shadows, by understanding the “fixed principals” amid all the commotion about to descend upon us, by our continued repentance, we will be delivered unto our salvation, I care not if in mortality or the Spirit World, we simply must be a prepared people, a scripturally educated people, a humble penitent people and no matter where we find ourselves we'll be fine and without fear.

Sorry for the rehashing, I just firmly believe we should continue to place our trust in the proper places!

Bob

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

even the all powerful LDGs who seemingly have total control over us actually have no clue concerning what is about to happen to them!

Bob

Absolutely!

[Legioncaptain of 1,000]

Again, I feel that what the Book of Revelations discusses is a largely European picture of last days events. I haven't come to this conclusion on my own, I've had great discussions with some great gospel scholars about these very things. About "Revelations" all of them had the same conclusion.

Again I say, I consider Steve, Mark, Gary, Brad and several others here to be real gospel scholars. My concerns about where we're at lay within our understanding of the scriptures, the words of our prophets available to us, and not the understandings of the world. The world, even the all powerful LDGs who seemingly have total control over us actually have no clue concerning what is about to happen to them! My concerns are about us, the people of the covenant, my questions remain, do "we" have a clue?

I feel that "we" should be getting our "last day directions" from within our own scripture and the words of our Prophets, what people outside of this Church discuss is of little concern to me, except to help me recognize the types and shadows "as-they-happen".

Mark suggests we're ignoring the types and shadows Isaiah has left for us to understand. I submit we're not ignoring Isaiah, we're simply adding and comparing the types and shadows of Isaiah with those in the rest of our scripture. Myself, I love Isaiah, my favorite book in the OT. However, there are other types available to us that just might, if we give them a chance, help give us a much clearer picture of last days events in our part of the world.

Concerning Isaiah, we have this from Jacob;

The Prophet Jacob 2 Nephi 4

4 And now, behold, I would speak unto you concerning things which are, and which are to come wherefore, I will read you the words of Isaiah. And they are the words which my brother has desired that I should speak unto you. And I speak unto you for your sakes, that ye may learn and glorify the name of your God.

And again, there's this commandment from our Lord;

Our Lord 3 Nephi 23: 1-3

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. ;

things which are, and which are to come--- have been and shall be , That's why we study Isaiah, looking at those events Isaiah was inspired to put in his writings so the scripturally informed would understand whats coming. Isaiah is confusing to most people for a reason, let us not be among the confused!

Steve suggests the same people responsible for 9/11 could also be responsible for an emp attack and perhaps he's correct, I don't think so, but perhaps! But if they do something like that then they had better be able to blame the attack on someone so there can be retaliation, because the scripturally and spiritually uninformed among us will demand retaliation.

I suggest it'll happen as the types in Helaman suggest, the murder of our “chief judge” as recorded in Helaman 7-8.

However it happens, the results will be the same! Riots will destroy the country. My belief is based on the drought and plagues mentioned as types and shadows ie, For a desolating sickness shall cover the land--- It's my opinion that after the murder, the riots, after the devastating drought, after the plague, those who are left will repent! I do not believe there'll be an invasion from outside our shores because of the commotion in the seas. There's a very important reason why we are so separated from the rest of the world.

It's also my opinion that all these will be seen as naturally occurring events by the wicked, the penitent will see them as punishment from God. Any event such as an emp attack will not be seen as punishment form God, but simply as an attack from an enemy, and retaliation will be demanded, and innocents will die.

Mark is sure the Assyrian army type will invade from communist lands, I think not, I think the Assyrian army type will be commanded by the king figure set up by our ldg's " in country" he will marshal an army from among millions of survivors to come after us for our food. They who started the whole mess and will lose control of the situation and be destroyed as the Midionites were destroyed by Our Lord commanding Gideon and his very small army.

Elder Maxwell referred to the problems confronted during the cleansing as; Fixed Principles amid Commotion:

And concerning the people in general; “They are without principle, and past feeling” (Moroni 9:20).
They are without principle," Moroni wrote. Without fixed principles and a clear destination, Nephi's metaphor of pressing forward amid "all these things" would give way to plodding persistence or mindless survival. But with gospel certitude his metaphor denotes a determined, zestful stride, even in those moments when there may seem to be nothing to be zestful about. Furthermore, in our day the striding forward "with a steadfastness in Christ" is to be accomplished amid the various expressions of how all things shall be in "commotion"in the world (see D&C 88:91; 2 Nephi 28:20). Much of this "commotion" may be geophysical, with earthquakes, seas heaving themselves beyond their bounds, and other such cataclysmic events. Disciples are also told, "When ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by" (Luke 21:9; see also D&C 45:26; 88:91).

91 And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men's hearts shall fail them; for fear shall come upon all people.

By understanding types and shadows, by understanding the “fixed principals” amid all the commotion about to descend upon us, by our continued repentance, we will be delivered unto our salvation, I care not if in mortality or the Spirit World, we simply must be a prepared people, a scripturally educated people, a humble penitent people and no matter where we find ourselves we'll be fine and without fear.

Sorry for the rehashing, I just firmly believe we should continue to place our trust in the proper places!

Bob

Greatly appreciate your rehashing Bob!!! I also think we'll see massive repentance. Getting called as a block captain for this past earthquake scenario and discussing it with neighbors I haven't talked to since I moved here some years ago....hit me hard that tough times will drive repentance and the pulling together of people. Its the natural result. For others it may be a separator but I think we'll be surprised at how many quickly come around....while others we thought had it together go the other way.

It will be good for us. God doesn't do anything except that which is ultimately good for us. Choose the right....let the chips fall where they may!

We are all in this together. The sooner we realize that and start trying to work together as a team to accomplish righteousness the better off we will be.

[gdemetzcaptain of 100]

When I was writing my commentary on the Book of Revelation, I was for a time a little stumped on the 13th chapter, so I prayed earnestly and received some enlightenment on it. I hope that no one will be offended by it. The beast in the 13th chapter coming up out of the sea (nations, peoples, and tongues) represents the Roman Empire, and the parts of that beast described are representative of the three kingdoms preceding it, which Daniel describes (you may compare the two descriptions). The dragon, or Satan gives it it's seat of authority (which is what Emperor Constantine did for the bishop of Rome when he moved his seat to Constanople). It receives a deadly would, and it is revived later in another form. It has power for 42 months, and this is a prophetic time period in which each day represents one year (see Clarke's Commentary). This is the same period in which the church is driven into the wilderness (see the JST, Revelation 12:5), from 570 AD to 1830 AD. This beast overcomes the SAINTS for this period of time by force, or by the sword.

This beast is revived again in the form of another beast which comes up out of the land having two horns like a lamb (Christlike - and the two horns represent the Roman and Greek branches of this ecclesiastical empire which speaks as a dragon (Satan - deceitfully) and exercises all of the power of the first beast before it, which was Rome. It then goes on to tell of the mark of this beast, or the sign of this kingdom, and there is an error in the writing. It should read "with" the right hand and forehead instead of "in" the right hand and forehead. In other words, the sign of this kingdom is the sign of the cross which Constantine witnessed in the sky, according to him. Later, it speaks of the image ("likeness" would be more correct) of the beast. In other words, the bishops of Rome were in the same likeness as the emperors of Rome. It further states that the number of this MAN is 666. In the "New Catholic Encyclopedia" there is a dipiction of a mitre worn by the bishop of Rome with a "DCLXVI" inscription on the front of it. This is the number of that man.

Six months after I received this revelation, I happened to read in "Mormon Doctrine," under "Sign of the Cross" this same scripture used as a reference from the 13th chapter of Revelation! I then got the same "burning" testimony that Bruce McConkie had received that same revelation which I had received concerning the error I previously mentioned! This was no mere coincidence!

The woman who rides the beast represents the whore of all the earth, or the church of the devil, and her riding the beast is symbolic of her close union with Rome. Later, the beast is depicted as hating the whore and persecuting her, and this is symbolic of the inquisition in which the Catholic church, or revived Rome persecuted the other elements of the whore. In order to understand this better, one must refer to the Book of Mormon which states that all that do not belong to the Lamb's church belong to the church of the devil, or the great whore. The beast that was, and was not, and yet is (meaning revived again), is listed as the eighth. In other words, there was Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, the Catholic church, and finally the Roman Catholic church!

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Bob writes:

Steve suggests the same people responsible for 9/11 could also be responsible for an emp attack and perhaps he's correct, I don't think so, but perhaps! But if they do something like that then they had better be able to blame the attack on someone so there can be retaliation, because the scripturally and spiritually uninformed among us will demand retaliation.

Bob -- Russia and China (principal heads of the red Beast IMHO) both have super-EMP weapons, as does the US and probably UK and other countries. Other countries have High-altitude EMP weapons ("HEMP"), including N. Korea.

I do not know (nor say) who will use EMP weapons first; just that the US is extremely vulnerable to EMP attack and that such an attack seems historically & scientifically very likely (IMO).

Yes, we can do things to prepare against such an attack -- starting with food storage (3-month AND long-term like a year or so), as counseled by the Prophets.

"the scripturally and spiritually uninformed among us will demand retaliation."

I expect so -- as discussed in an insightful way in the book "The Harbinger."

[coachmarcMy own worst enemy]

I live in the epicenter of the fault line along the Wasatch Front. If it ever goes, living up here in Brigham City will prove very interesting if I survive. I feel odd saying this now, but we all die sooner or later. What matters most to me is being prepared before I go. But this spot of ground in the Lord's vineyard is where I belong.

[karen2cruisecaptain of 100]

I live in the epicenter of the fault line along the Wasatch Front. If it ever goes, living up here in Brigham City will prove very interesting if I survive. I feel odd saying this now, but we all die sooner or later. What matters most to me is being prepared before I go. But this spot of ground in the Lord's vineyard is where I belong.

We are along the "Front". Part of me always thinks about running away. We pray that if we are suposed to be somewhere else He'll open the way. However, somebody here needs to be waking up people that all is not well in Zion/America. So for now, we feel this is where we are supposed to be too.

[7cylon7captain of 1,000]

Joel Skousen reports that if we get hit with an EMP then a nuke attack is only 20 min away.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

I live in the epicenter of the fault line along the Wasatch Front. If it ever goes, living up here in Brigham City will prove very interesting if I survive. I feel odd saying this now, but we all die sooner or later. What matters most to me is being prepared before I go. But this spot of ground in the Lord's vineyard is where I belong.

It is so important that we pray, individually and as heads-of-families, about where to locate or re-locate. While there is still opportunity to do so.

A few years ago now, my wife and I prayerfully considered this question, and for us, we moved away from the Wasatch fault -- and the high-density population. But each of us is responsible and capable of inspiration for ourselves and those in our stewardships. A revelation to me, is (as you know)-- not binding on you, coachmarc or karen2cruise.

What worries me is those who are oblivious to the dangers ("all is well in Zion" syndrome as Karen2 notes) -- and who don't even ponder nor pray about where to be located in advance of the cleansing and the storms of the last days.

IIRC, Brother Wolfgramm (who had the spirit of prophecy evidently) saw that a nuke hit northern Utah. And President J. Reuben Clark said something along these lines also, if I could find it...

"Upon my house shall it begin" , said the Lord Himself in D&C 112.

[coachmarcMy own worst enemy]

I really don't want to be around if/when this earthquake hits, but so far, this is where I'm supposed to be. What is IIRC? I'm also interested in those quotes if you find them.

[7cylon7captain of 1,000]

When I was writing my commentary on the Book of Revelation, I was for a time a little stumped on the 13th chapter, so I prayed earnestly and received some enlightenment on it. I hope that no one will be offended by it. The beast in the 13th chapter coming up out of the sea (nations, peoples, and tongues) represents the Roman Empire, and the parts of that beast described are representative of the three kingdoms preceding it, which Daniel describes (you may compare the two descriptions). The dragon, or Satan gives it it's seat of authority (which is what Emperor Constantine did for the bishop of Rome when he moved his seat to Constanople). It receives a deadly would, and it is revived later in another form. It has power for 42 months, and this is a prophetic time period in which each day represents one year (see Clarke's Commentary). This is the same period in which the church is driven into the wilderness (see the JST, Revelation 12:5), from 570 AD to 1830 AD. This beast overcomes the SAINTS for this period of time by force, or by the sword.

This beast is revived again in the form of another beast which comes up out of the land having two horns like a lamb (Christlike - and the two horns represent the Roman and Greek branches of this ecclesiastical empire which speaks as a dragon (Satan - deceitfully) and exercises all of the power of the first beast before it, which was Rome. It then goes on to tell of the mark of this beast, or the sign of this kingdom, and there is an error in the writing. It should read "with" the right hand and forehead instead of "in" the right hand and forehead. In other words, the sign of this kingdom is the sign of the cross which Constantine witnessed in the sky, according to him. Later, it speaks of the image ("likeness" would be more correct) of the beast. In other words, the bishops of Rome were in the same likeness as the emperors of Rome. It further states that the number of this MAN is 666. In the "New Catholic Encyclopedia" there is a dipiction of a mitre worn by the bishop of Rome with a "DCLXVI" inscription on the front of it. This is the number of that man.

Six months after I received this revelation, I happened to read in "Mormon Doctrine," under "Sign of the Cross" this same scripture used as a reference from the 13th chapter of Revelation! I then got the same "burning" testimony that Bruce McConkie had received that same revelation which I had received concerning the error I previously mentioned! This was no mere coincidence!

The woman who rides the beast represents the whore of all the earth, or the church of the devil, and her riding the beast is symbolic of her close union with Rome. Later, the beast is depicted as hating the whore and persecuting her, and this is symbolic of the inquisition in which the Catholic church, or revived Rome persecuted the other elements of the whore. In order to understand this better, one must refer to the Book of Mormon which states that all that do not belong to the Lamb's church belong to the church of the devil, or the great whore. The beast that was, and was not, and yet is (meaning revived again), is listed as the eighth. In other words, there was Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, the Catholic church, and finally the Roman Catholic church!

You need to see these videos. Please watch them. they will help you understand what you just wrote. People don't want to believe this but it is in the open and plain to see.





watch all 9 of them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orx9LUQD ... =endscreen that is the link... I think they are on a playlist as well.

[Legioncaptain of 1,000]

I live in the epicenter of the fault line along the Wasatch Front. If it ever goes, living up here in Brigham City will prove very interesting if I survive. I feel odd saying this now, but we all die sooner or later. What matters most to me is being prepared before I go. But this spot of ground in the Lord's vineyard is where I belong.

It is so important that we pray, individually and as heads-of-families, about where to locate or re-locate. While there is still opportunity to do so.

A few years ago now, my wife and I prayerfully considered this question, and for us, we moved away from the Wasatch fault -- and the high-density population. But each of us is responsible and capable of inspiration for ourselves and those in our stewardships. A revelation to me, is (as you know)-- not binding on you, coachmarc or karen2cruise.

What worries me is those who are oblivious to the dangers ("all is well in Zion" syndrome as Karen2 notes) -- and who don't even ponder nor pray about where to be located in advance of the cleansing and the storms of the last days.

IIRC, Brother Wolfgramm (who had the spirit of prophecy evidently) saw that a nuke hit northern Utah. And President J. Reuben Clark said something along these lines also, if I could find it...

"Upon my house shall it begin" , said the Lord Himself in D&C 112.

The problem is the level of private interpretation of scriptures and underlying assumptions (based upon personal paradigms) buried in the decision making.

I was in a remote area (50 miles from closest Home Depot and 30 miles from the closest Walmart - branch covered 8000 square miles)...yet the Lord led me back to SLC in the heart of the city. 100's of thousands of good people here. They may not be 100% aligned politically or have similar views of history and conspiracy but they are fundamentally good people (paying and have paid for much of the missionary work in the world) who can unite under the right stimulus to accomplish much good. Many others (friends and neighbors) can and probably will repent under that stimulus.

Sure an EMP can happen....but it is God's world. Would He send temple work back to the stone ages? Watch 95% of the population wipe each other out in less than a year (including the righteous who would be on equal turf with the wicked)?

Or would something like the plague that separates the combinations (no one wants to be around each other - thus preserving the righteous) and quarantines everyone to their homes for a month or more to live on whatever food storage they have be much more likely? Sure that would break supply chains and cause serious problems which would be a great stimulus for repentance....but its not going to set all of civilization back 80+ years.....or create a glow-in-the-dark Zion.

The #1 tool for preparedness is the Spirit. Plenty of spiritual people living in the cities. Temple square has quite a few that lead and guide the church.

Running away to the most remote areas in the world won't matter one iota if we aren't living the way we are supposed to be living and doing what the Lord would have us do. Ultimately our task is to build the kingdom....not look after our personal welfare.

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

Steve;

A high altitude EMP blast, if it were possible to effect electrical components on the earths surface, would in effect be nothing more than a Nuisance weapon. If, as you suggest, depopulation is the primary purpose of LDG final result, then neutron bombs would be used. Neutron bombs kill people but leave infrastructure in place.

Steve, please re-read the following;

In 2010, a technical report written for a United States government laboratory, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, even included a brief section addressing some of those EMP myths.[47] Here are some further clarifications on common areas of confusion that have already been discussed (with references) in the above sections of this article:
Most nuclear weapons effects vary greatly depending upon the altitude of the detonation. This is especially true of nuclear EMP. The standard reference text on nuclear weapon effects published by the U.S. Department of Defense discusses this relationship extensively in the first two chapters, and provides mutually-exclusive definitions for phrases such as "air burst" and "high-altitude burst." [48] As explained in above sections of this article, nuclear detonations at all altitudes within the Earth's magnetic field will produce an electromagnetic pulse; but the magnitude of the EMP and area that is affected by the EMP are strongly affected by many factors, and is especially strongly dependent upon the altitude of the detonation. (See the discussion above in the "Weapon altitude" and "Weapon distance" sections.) A nuclear explosion in deep space and not in a strong planetary magnetic field would be ineffective at generating EMP.
EMP is not a new kind of weapon effect. As stated in the "History" section above, nuclear EMP from a nuclear air burst has been known since 1945. The unique characteristics of high-altitude nuclear EMP have been known since at least 1962. Non-nuclear EMP has been known since at least 1951. Electromagnetic pulse is a prompt secondary effect of a nuclear explosion, and nearly all of the nuclear EMP is produced outside of the weapon. All nuclear weapons can produce EMP as a secondary effect, but the effect can be enhanced by special weapon design.[19][22]
The E3 component of nuclear EMP that produces geomagnetically induced currents in very long electrical conductors is roughly proportional to the total energy yield of the weapon. The other components of nuclear EMP are less likely to be dependent on total energy yield of the weapon. The E1 component, in particular, is proportional to prompt gamma ray output; but EMP levels can be strongly affected if more than one burst of gamma rays occurs in a short time period. Large thermonuclear weapons produce large energy yields through a multi-stage process. This multi-stage process is completed within a small fraction of a second, but it nevertheless requires a finite length of time. The first fission reaction is usually of relatively small yield, and the gamma rays produced by the first stage pre-ionize atmospheric molecules in the stratosphere. This pre-ionization causes the gamma ray emission from the high-energy final stage of the thermonuclear weapon (a fraction of a second later) to be relatively ineffective at producing a large E1 pulse.[33][34] (See the blue pre-ionization curve in the "Peak Electric Field at Ground Zero" graph above.)

I stand by my training!

Bob

[AGStackercaptain of 100]

I don't know why people on this thread constantly remind others that "the most important thing is Spiritual preparedness". Yes, we all know that we should be right with the Lord. I don't believe anyone here will deny that but if you are a righteous person but have no food to eat when we were counseled to have food it isn't going to look good on you. Possibly because you didn't have food your starvation causes you to commit some serious sins.

Brigham Young said that a man cannot dream to become like God and control the elements without being able to physically take care of them self here on THIS Earth. I feel like those who constantly "remind" people here talking about physically preparedness that "the only thing that matters" is the Spiritual preparedness are incorrect. They go hand in hand. How can I be a good or worthy father/husband/Priesthood leader if I didn't live up to the counsel to watch and prepare and my family starves to death?

[gdemetzcaptain of 100]

Thanks 7cylon7, those were interesting videos! McConkie writes in "Mormon Doctrine" that the early saints considered the beast (a prophetic term used to represent kingdoms), or the great apostate church, as the antichrist!

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Good discussion. Thanks for that.

Bob;

A high altitude EMP blast, if it were possible to effect electrical components on the earths surface, would in effect be nothing more than a Nuisance weapon. If, as you suggest, depopulation is the primary purpose of LDG final result, then neutron bombs would be used. Neutron bombs kill people but leave infrastructure in place.

Much more than a "Nuisance weapon", Bob! I urge you to google "super EMP weapon" and do some reading. This is one ref that is informative:

...[snip for brevity] While North Korea may be the latest country to test such a weapon, it is clear that the technology has been available for nearly 50 years, and it has since been leaked to rogue nations, and perhaps rogue terror and shadow elements with the financing, capability and wherewithal to use it:
...

Pry said that a group of Russian nuclear weapons scientists approached him in 2004 when he served as staff director of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack, to warn the United States that the technology to make that weapon “had leaked” to North Korea, and possibly to Iran.

When we talk about potential terrorist action against the United States, we discuss this in the sphere of any organization, be it Al Queda, state sponsored, or shadow government related. These weapons exist, and they are, without a doubt, the single biggest threat to the United States of America.

As we’ve previously reported, such a weapon, or group of weapons strategically detonated at lower altitudes, would completely wipe out the entire US power grid, vehicles, computers, cell phones, and anything else with an electric circuit.

The fall out would be nothing short of apocalyptic.

In July of 2010 EMPact America published an overview of the EMP 2010 Conference in which they discussed the threat EMP posed to the nation and the fact that very few people understand how great and imminent it is:

…An electromagnetic pulse, or EMP, is a super energetic radio wave that’s immediately harmless to people, but it’ll burn out all the critical electronic systems that sustain human economic activity and human life across vast areas, including the entire continental United States.

-Dr. Peter Vincent Pry, President, EMPact America

The Center for Security Policy, in a report issued last year, has estimated that in the event of a wide-scale EMP attack on the United States, as many as nine out of ten Americans would be dead within one year:

“Within a year of that attack, nine out of 10 Americans would be dead, because we can’t support a population of the present size in urban centers and the like without electricity,” said Frank Gaffney, president of the Center for Security Policy...

North Koreans, Iranians, terrorists (Al Queda or otherwise), it doesn’t really matter.

What does matter is that very few Americans are prepared for such an outlier.

The first 24 – 48 hours after such an occurrence will lead to confusion among the general population as traditional news acquisition sources like television, radio and cell phone networks will be non-functional.

Within a matter of days, once people realize the power might not be coming back on and grocery store shelves start emptying, the entire system will begin to delve into chaos.

Within 30 days a mass die off will have begun as food supplies dwindle, looters and gangs turn to violent extremes, medicine can’t be restocked and water pump stations fail.

For those interested in learning more about the after-effects of EMP and several different scenarios in which you may find yourself, we strongly recommend reading / watching the following:

* One Second After by William Forstchen
* Lights Out by David Crawford
* Patriots by James Rawles
* Jericho TV show (via Netflix or iTunes)

With the information gained you’ll theoretically have a working knowledge of the supplies you’ll need for extended grid-down situations. Additionally, each story deals with a slightly different setting, so you’ll have an understanding of the organizational and defense requirements necessary to secure and manage an individual property, small community neighborhood, and an entire town.

Power outages happen all the time. But you’ll know an EMP has been detonated (or we’ve been hit by a massive solar event) if the power to your house goes off, cars are not starting, and your cell phone won’t turn on. If that happens, take a deep breath, say a prayer, and put the supplies and knowledge you’ve acquired to work, because it won’t be long before the golden horde wrecks havoc....

Hardly just a "nuisance"! And note that the N. Koreans have the EMP weapon... I think this is worth preparing for! big time.

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

What is IIRC?

If I recall correctly.
or
If I remember correctly.

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

Hardly just a "nuisance"! And note that the N. Koreans have the EMP weapon... I think this is worth preparing for! big time.

OK Well, as I said, I'll stand by my training. I'm well prepared for whatever happens! But my disagreement with what you said has to do with high altitude EMPs, something in the neighborhood of 250 miles high? The report I supplied explains why a detonation at such altitudes would not be effective. I didn't say that there would be no EMP blasts, just that they would have to be well within the earths atmosphere to be effective, and 250 miles is well outside the earths atmosphere. I also said that any EMP blast within the earths atmosphere would also kill most people below it from neutron radiation, therefore the loss of electricity would have little effect on them. It's the slower Gamma radiation that causes the EMP effect.

I wasn't arguing that nukes wouldn't be used, I know they will be, my point is EMP detonations will hardly be of any practical value, why not just kill the people, they're going to die anyway!

I have also said that after the cleansing only 10 percent of the people currently living in North American will be alive, but 50 percent of the Church will remain. 10 percent of 305 million people just in the USA is over 30 million people, 50 million in all of North America! And 50 million people is enough to keep missionaries from the Church's 50 percent quite busy!

Our type is Captain Moroni moving all the people into and around Zarahemla, taking all their food with them. The bad guys couldn't attack Moroni and his armies inside Zarahemla, so they encamped outside the perimeter and went hungry. When they grew weak from hunger they withdrew, and a strengthened Moroni led army left Zarahemla, chased and routed the bad guys to victory! That's the way I see it happening in our sphere of influence.

You may have a different opinion, I'll allow that!

Bob