Alternative Defensive Measures

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

Still Learning says: However, where would we draw the line? How would we fight back to preserve our freedoms? I personally am stocked up on guns and ammo, but I don't know how I would use them other than to protect my own home. Will we eventually organize and fight to save ourselves? ... Any thoughts?

So, let's use that to start a thread on alternative defensive measures, for at home, in the car, and outside.

Great thoughts. I think I'd rather carry a non-lethal weapon, because I would have few qualms about using it, I wouldn't worry about aiming much, and the legal backlash would be much better. (Does blood make YOU a little queasy?)
What if you can't tell if someone is REALLY going to do something/ attack you, but it's more likely than not?
What can you do to your home? car?

Other options than gun/ knife:
Shoot/ hold:
--25-ft. streaming pepper spray
--paintball guns, etc.
--bb guns
--rock salt shotgun shells?
--lasers--the ones that get extremely hot in 1-3 seconds(?)
--anything like stun grenades?
--blowdart gun on stun?

Sound:
Most of the crap they sell at "120 decibels!!" wake me up less than my alarm clock...

Smell :
--they used to have skunk pills, I can't find them anymore!

Other?

[Randcaptain of 1,000]

Great idea! Wasp and Hornet spray is the same basically as pepper spray, I am told.

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

Great idea! Wasp and Hornet spray is the same basically as pepper spray, I am told.

Probably better, now that you mention it. I remember a post here about that, will remember it now.


I saw a show recently where CO2 guns were shooting what seemed like metal stunners? Anyone know anything like that?

[Songbirdcaptain of 1,000]

Well, I have heard that the Wasp spray that shoots 30 feet is great as someone mentioned.

On the sound, a boat horn would probably do the trick. Or one of those horns they use at games?

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

I see flimsy glass windows all over most houses, even right by the door. It would take about two seconds to put one out, reach in, undo the bolt, and turn the handle. FIX IT.

Bad things can happen in your yard, too. (We've had a few potential situations.) That includes everything from dog attacks, bear attacks, and people attacks. What would you do? More and more neighbors (if you have them) are all at work during the day; even if someone saw/ heard, would they care? If they cared, would they come and help? call? (What if it's your neighbor?) By the time the police got there, then what?
What to keep handy? How to keep on top of what's going on around you? You can keep a dog there with you, or another adult. I'm remembering a pepper spray

Automatic motion-sensor lights for night are excellent help (unless your neighbor has many cats...): in the drive, garage, front door, back door, perimeter, even inside the house.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

I see flimsy glass windows all over most houses, even right by the door. It would take about two seconds to put one out, reach in, undo the bolt, and turn the handle. FIX IT.

Bad things can happen in your yard, too. (We've had a few potential situations.) That includes everything from dog attacks, bear attacks, and people attacks. What would you do? More and more neighbors (if you have them) are all at work during the day; even if someone saw/ heard, would they care? If they cared, would they come and help? call? (What if it's your neighbor?) By the time the police got there, then what?
What to keep handy? How to keep on top of what's going on around you? You can keep a dog there with you, or another adult. I'm remembering a pepper spray

Automatic motion-sensor lights for night are excellent help (unless your neighbor has many cats...): in the drive, garage, front door, back door, perimeter, even inside the house.

....kind of like the whole gadianton system bubble we live in right now isn't it - a fragile glass house!

...its going to take something like the plague or there will be no righteous left after the mobs go through....

In terms of adding value....if someone is really determined....its extremely difficult to stop them. I could post some graphic photos of a police shootout where the cops had to shoot a guy 27 times to bring him down....but its probably too much for this group. I'd lean towards more terminal efforts and not mickey mouse around with stuff that will just really torque someone off.....like shooting a grizzly with a .22! That said its better to have something (pepper spray) rather than nothing at all....just make sure its ghost pepper spray/stun gun - i.e. something that will really truly take the wind out of their sails.

The further away you can get them the less opportunity they have to do bodily harm (one doesn't want to be wounded much less dead).

[bbrowncaptain of 100]

Garlic...LOTS of Garlic! That'll keep people away. Ha ha ha! Sorry, I just couldn't help it.

I just heard about a long-distance rifle powder that is explosive (so you can see your hits) and that can be ordered online.
Guard dogs (Anatolians, for instance)
"underground" houses...they're pretty cool when done correctly and wouldn't be bad as a storage area/place of last resort/hiding.
Okinawan Karate or some other form of hand-to-hand skills that aren't about winning points as much as about fighting off an attacker successfully...and getting the job done.
And yah, guns. Lots of guns, and ammo. Even bows, slingshots, swords, etc could come in handy. But you've got to have the skills and ability to use them as well as secure storage and yet easy access.

But the reality is, as with everything, that preparation is worthwhile and even commanded in many areas, but no ammount of preparation, stores or skills will be enough by themselves. Using the Spirit as your constant guide and companion will be required, and the power of the Priesthood will be insurmountable. One of my friends says that we live in the perfect place for that being on an island, surrounded by water and mountains waiting to be comanded to rise up and move.

Lest someone mistake my meaning, you cannot claim to follow the Spirit and have it as a guide if you ignore the commands and promptings to prepare ahead of time...it isn't an either/or issue. One comment that really struck me a year or so ago was when someone was going over common reasons given as to why not to bother keeping food storage, the example was someone saying that if you store the food, someone's just going to come along with a gun and take it away. She then asked, if you were the one watching your children starve to death, what would you be willing to do to feed them? Would you become the one with the gun stealing from those who had food? Now, I already had food storage, but the reality and difficulty of that situation sunk in... We must prepare while we can, but only those who prepare themselves both spiritually and physically will have any assurance of safety -be it in this life or the next.

C Brown

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

I'm loaded to the gills with guns ammo and reloading equipment with related supplies. Things I don't have are many reloading dies for other cartridges. I can reload 12 Ga. slugs, and I make my own. But anyone who breaks into my home, while I'm here will die, I have made up my mind on that. No quarter given!

When AHBL I'll help my community by bartering shotgun shells. Everybody has a shotgun!

Bob

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

I see flimsy glass windows all over most houses, even right by the door. It would take about two seconds to put one out, reach in, undo the bolt, and turn the handle. FIX IT.

....kind of like the whole gadianton system bubble we live in right now isn't it - a fragile glass house!
lol, yes!

...its going to take something like the plague or there will be no righteous left after the mobs go through....
For lots of people, probably true.

In terms of adding value....if someone is really determined....its extremely difficult to stop them. I could post some graphic photos of a police shootout where the cops had to shoot a guy 27 times to bring him down....but its probably too much for this group. I'd lean towards more terminal efforts and not mickey mouse around with stuff that will just really torque someone off.....like shooting a grizzly with a .22! That said its better to have something (pepper spray) rather than nothing at all....just make sure its ghost pepper spray/stun gun - i.e. something that will really truly take the wind out of their sails.

The further away you can get them the less opportunity they have to do bodily harm (one doesn't want to be wounded much less dead).

I agree. I don't like the 6 ft. pepper spray--yes, it's better than nothing, but I'd much rather have 25 ft. between me and them than 6, and using bear pepper spray than people spray (I'm assuming it's a little stronger?). I've also seen a (police) video or two where people who don't seem to be affected too much by it--either that or the officer couldn't use it right; but if that were the case, I'd rather get something more idiot-proof, too. I like the idea of wasp spray better.
In the end, I also like my friend's technique: run! 25 bullets and 250 feet is going to be a lot harder for him than 25 bullets and 25 feet.

[Etoshacaptain of 100]

Jiu Jitsu - choke em out
There a cool and very simple move that a woman can do even on a large attacker - learned it in jiu jitsu. It uses pressure points and only takes a few seconds. My 3 daughters are taking it right now so I don't have to worry about them on dates. Boys beware!

[Kaarnocaptain of 100]

As with any weapon whether, pepper spray, wasp spray, knife, or shotgun, can you physically do it and are you mentally able to physical harm to another in self defense or the defense of another? It is easy to say you can but to do it is another. I remember the first time I had to shoot, albeit a less lethal round, at an inmate. It took a second to register what I was doing against my personal morals and ethics. The second and third times were a lot easier As Mike Tyson said "everyone has a plan until they get punched."

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

Jiu Jitsu - choke em out
There a cool and very simple move that a woman can do even on a large attacker - learned it in jiu jitsu. It uses pressure points and only takes a few seconds. My 3 daughters are taking it right now so I don't have to worry about them on dates. Boys beware!

Cool... In fact, my favorite self-defense course is a 2-DVD set that basically goes over variations of one move, and it's wonderful. I've seen it work wonderfully well in real life, too--no blood, over in less than 5 seconds, etc.
I remember my friend getting me and my brother to settle down in the best possible way by putting me in a choke hold for about three seconds--whoops, ok, wasn't thinking straight...
I'd say knowing what one thing they're going to be doing, and preparing for it, is good.

On the other hand--that's a pretty risky thing, putting all your precious eggs in one move. That's like learning one judo throw, but the guy who attacks you is missing an arm and sleeve--whoops, now what?! Or screaming, but the guy is deaf.
Can they perform the move under pressure? If they can't see/ it's dark? To behind them?

Expanding just a little... Like with everything else, some jiu-jitsu doesn't work all the time--there are defenses against famous moves that work well if you're not on a mat (like pile-driving a head when someone's trying to break your elbow in an elbow lock with their legs) or just by grabbing a certain anatomical part or pressing pressure points in the lower abdomen, etc. Even MMA is not real life.

A mix of striking/ grappling/ choking/ kicking/ finishing/ close quarters would all be nice.
Of course, having a big fighter by your side is a nice option...

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

I'm loaded to the gills with guns ammo and reloading equipment with related supplies. Things I don't have are many reloading dies for other cartridges. I can reload 12 Ga. slugs, and I make my own. But anyone who breaks into my home, while I'm here will die, I have made up my mind on that. No quarter given!

When AHBL I'll help my community by bartering shotgun shells. Everybody has a shotgun!

Bob

Naturally, guns in a gunman's hands are great for self-defense. But what if you're not at home when they break in and steal your guns? What if you're outside? What if you are at home, but asleep?

I like motion-sensor sound (and light) alarms. You can actually buy them for really cheap.

I have seen deluxe beds that are like safe rooms/ big bulletproof boxes.

[SmallFarmcaptain of 1,000]

I think a psychological defense can be helpful too. The Hopi deterred night attacks by fostering the myth of the "skinwalker". Hanging weird looking wood scultures or making creepy scarecrows may not deter serious thugs and criminals but it may hold off the nightly teenage garden invader (stories I've heard from the Great Depression tell of gardens being raided before the fruit is ready so every little bit of deterrence would help). I could see myself walking around my garden, at night, in stilts and a bigfoot costume with a pellet gun in hand

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

I think a psychological defense can be helpful too.

A big hand for psychological defense.

[Etoshacaptain of 100]

"A mix of striking/ grappling/ choking/ kicking/ finishing/ close quarters would all be nice.
Of course, having a big fighter by your side is a nice option... "

So far my plan is Jiu Jitsu, a big dog and a big gun!

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

"I" have a friend who keeps a unloaded shotgun by his front door, you can see it through the glass panels on the side of the door. it's an old pump shotgun, but it's there for "two" purposes. One, it does serve as a deterrent, second, if someone is stupid enough to break in, the gun then serves as a weapon, not for my friend, but when the police arrive, my old friend can point to the old shotgun and say he had a gun, I had no choice--- Message, deterrents may work for a smart crook, but in reality, how many crooks are smart??

I have an old pellet rifle by my front door, when it's dark, and somebody breaks my door down, guaranteed I'm going to have trouble distinguishing what kind of gun the perp is holding, but it sure didn't look like a pellet gun! And I don't shoot to frighten or wound, so the perp won't be able to testify-- I want any perp brave enough to take me on to suddenly find himself in the Spirit World looking around with a bewildered look on his face wondering, "what the hell!" and he'll be correct-----

There's talk here about being squimish, you people best get rid of those thoughts, your life or your wife and kids lives may be on the line, perps who have no problems breaking into your home will have no problem raping and killing your wife and daughters, and you'll fail them because your squimish??? If an intruder takes your life while your fiddling with a can of wasp spray, who's left to protect your family? Do you have a safe room in your home you and your family can retreat to? Are there weapons there?

My doctor, as kind and gentle a human being as I have ever known, carries concealed and, has several guns in his home. He never was much of a hunter, but he knows how to shoot, and he saves me all his empty brass.

We must be like the real men in the Book of Mormon who refused to allow themselves to be killed so they could protect their wives and children. Nephi didn't make swords just to keep his people busy, his intent was to kill armed intruders. Today's sword is called a shotgun, preferable an auto loader loaded with buckshot. The sound of a pump shotgun racking in a shell is a universally recognized sound, gets peoples attention really fast, also tells perps where your at, and as I said perps are generally not real smart, so that sound of racking a shell into your shotgun better be followed by a big blast.

Bob

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Just want to emphasize the dog. 1) Alert you to potential problems long before you might other wise pick up on them; 2) Provides another target to distract attackers

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

Just want to emphasize the dog. 1) Alert you to potential problems long before you might other wise pick up on them; 2) Provides another target to distract attackers

Distraction? Especially chihuahuas. Every time I see one I want to kick a field goal. Double if it's yelping. (Sorry chihuahua lovers.)
3) Bite.
4) Scare so that there might not be a problem.

Good not just for criminals, but other animals, too. Like holding a mauling bear at bay for hours...
Tabby cats might be good, too?
Some dogs bark, some don't much. Dogs have their own needs, too, including space, exercise, food, etc. Consider how much you can give them. (Some websites help you select the best breed for you based on that.) Talk to a breed-knowlegable person before investing.

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

And I don't shoot to frighten or wound, so the perp won't be able to testify... Actually a very important part--if they just get wounded, you will likely have both criminal and tort lawsuits. If they are killed, it's almost an automatic "case-closed".

There's talk here about being squimish, you people best get rid of those thoughts, your life or your wife and kids lives may be on the line, perps who have no problems breaking into your home will have no problem raping and killing your wife and daughters, and you'll fail them because your squimish??? If an intruder takes your life while your fiddling with a can of wasp spray, who's left to protect your family?
Do you have a safe room in your home you and your family can retreat to? Are there weapons there? Awesome idea.

We must be like the real men in the Book of Mormon who refused to allow themselves to be killed so they could protect their wives and children. Nephi didn't make swords just to keep his people busy, his intent was to kill armed intruders. Today's sword is called a shotgun, preferable an auto loader loaded with buckshot. The sound of a pump shotgun racking in a shell is a universally recognized sound, gets peoples attention really fast, also tells perps where your at, and as I said perps are generally not real smart, so that sound of racking a shell into your shotgun better be followed by a big blast. Ha, talk about being committed!
Bob

[JasonI am a nobody!]

And I don't shoot to frighten or wound, so the perp won't be able to testify... Actually a very important part--if they just get wounded, you will likely have both criminal and tort lawsuits. If they are killed, it's almost an automatic "case-closed".

There's talk here about being squimish, you people best get rid of those thoughts, your life or your wife and kids lives may be on the line, perps who have no problems breaking into your home will have no problem raping and killing your wife and daughters, and you'll fail them because your squimish??? If an intruder takes your life while your fiddling with a can of wasp spray, who's left to protect your family?
Do you have a safe room in your home you and your family can retreat to? Are there weapons there? Awesome idea.

We must be like the real men in the Book of Mormon who refused to allow themselves to be killed so they could protect their wives and children. Nephi didn't make swords just to keep his people busy, his intent was to kill armed intruders. Today's sword is called a shotgun, preferable an auto loader loaded with buckshot. The sound of a pump shotgun racking in a shell is a universally recognized sound, gets peoples attention really fast, also tells perps where your at, and as I said perps are generally not real smart, so that sound of racking a shell into your shotgun better be followed by a big blast. Ha, talk about being committed!
Bob

Follow up on the safe room - nice to have a backstop at the end of your shooting range coming out of your safe room (book case, etc.).....such that when you open up with double ought buck and slugs....some chance of containment.

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

Jason's right, one thing we should be very aware of, just what's behind that wall, is it the neighbors house? 12 ga. slugs will zip right through walls not backed on the outside by brick. My safe room is every room in my cabin, but I live alone, and I also have neighbors, so to protect them I know where every shot I shoot will end up "after" the very likely possibility that the round makes it totally through the perp. Since I live in the basement of my cabin every round that does so will end up slamming into a 8 in. thick cement wall backed by a heavy clay soil. Point is, when I pull the trigger I know exactly where every round is going.

Now, does this mean I'm going for a kill shot every time I shoot? Answer, depends on the target! If all I can see is a perps foot, then it's his foot I remove, like as not he'll fall somewhere allowing me a better shot in the kill zone. but one thing's for sure, he'll know I mean business, for a split second, and he'll instantly understand that he's picked on the wrong fat old man!

If you don't know how to shoot--learn! Did Nephi make swords to protect his people, and then not teach his people how to use a sword?? Does your wife know how to shoot? I watched my ten year old grand daughter hit ten cans with ten shots at twenty five yards with a Ruger 10.22. Can your kid do that?

Bob

[JohnnyLcaptain of 1,000]

Bob,
I hear you, and I'm there.
On the other hand, has your granddaughter ever pulled that trigger to shoot some sound in the dark that might (or might not) be a bad guy? Or a policeman? And what if he's undercover? Shoot and kill a policeman in complete and utter self-defense, you're still going down hard. Shoot him with a paintball gun in self-defense and knock him out, at least you won't get killed by others (well, at least less-likely).
Though in some cases it's pretty clear gun is likely best.

[bbrowncaptain of 100]

We've found our LGD's! I'm so excited! We opted for Great Pyrenees since we'll be transitioning from a medium-density-ish urban to middle-of-nowhere farmland. Anatolians are what I'd like to add eventually, but we just couldn't see bringing them here with their space requirements and scare off the mailman behaviors. It's a start. We're getting a breeding pair and then after we're on our land we'll probably add one or two Anatolians. Though Meremma's are interesting too.

And I still highly endorse Okinawan Seibukan Karate. It is all about street fighting (especially good for shorter people!), you don't wear padding in matches (luckily I haven't had to match yet but my friend breaks ribs and toes frequently when doing so) and you go till someone is down, and it is all about how to take them out most efficiently and effectively...NO point earning nonsense. Of course you aren't actually trying to break knees, elbows, etc in class --that is what the Bob dummy is for at home.

CBrown