The Elders Of Israel And The Constitution

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

Amore: We're on the same page. IF people don't do this, what dangers, if any, could a person face?

[Amore Verocaptain of 100]

IF people don't do this, what dangers, if any, could a person face?

'Everyone' will eventually & easily be deceived by false teachings & philosophies if they don't compare all they hear with what the scriptures say & have the Spirit to discern truth from error & right from wrong.

It's absolutely impossible to stand on borrowed light for long, we must prove all things we hear, by the scriptures & the Spirit, if we don't want to be deceived.

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

Amore: Here's something I learned while being an Senior Institutute teacher in Phila, Pa. What do you think.

Living on borrowed light certainly applies to trying to live off the Bishop's spouses, etc. light and knowldge. IMO, it also means relying on the Spirit you gained in the past say on a Mission to carry you through. IMO, this is a much greater danger. Toom many of us count on the spiritual reserve and drain it withour refilling it.

[Amore Verocaptain of 100]

Amore: Here's something I learned while being an Senior Institutute teacher in Phila, Pa. What do you think.

Living on borrowed light certainly applies to trying to live off the Bishop's spouses, etc. light and knowldge. IMO, it also means relying on the Spirit you gained in the past say on a Mission to carry you through. IMO, this is a much greater danger. Toom many of us count on the spiritual reserve and drain it withour refilling it.

I agree with you, we must be continually receiving personal revelation throughout our life, not just stand on old testimony.

I would also add that we can't live off anyone's borrowed light no matter who they are, not even the Prophet. We must all have firm testimonies & understanding of the Gospel for ourselves directly from the Spirit.

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

Amore: we're again on the same page. Did we know each othwer in the premortal life?

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

IF people don't do this, what dangers, if any, could a person face?

'Everyone' will eventually & easily be deceived by false teachings & philosophies if they don't compare all they hear with what the scriptures say & have the Spirit to discern truth from error & right from wrong.

It's absolutely impossible to stand on borrowed light for long, we must prove all things we hear, by the scriptures & the Spirit, if we don't want to be deceived.

I venture to say that scripture takes presidence even over a Prophet. A prophet is only a prophet when speaking as such. We are to test their words against scripture as well as any other person. It is scripture, studied and feasted upon, and by the Holy Ghost that allows a Prophet to speak God's words. The added keys is the ability to be a Seer and Revelator in our behalf. When a Prophet says something that causes one's tears to flow, it's generally because that person has studied the scriptures and the Holy Ghost is confirming to them what was said...which causes one to see eye to eye with God. The teacher and the hearer are in agreement.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

Folks, it is my conviction that if the Prophet were, while speaking or writing as the Prophet, to command or advise to do something or not do something that conflicted with anything in the holy scriptures we are obliged to follow the direction of the Prophet. I cannot think of a case where that has ever happened.

However, I have encountered members who believe that if certain commandments in the holy scriptures or certain commandments given by past prophets are not being promoted now that they are not obliged to follow those commandments. I don't think I need to cite examples.

[Amore Verocaptain of 100]

I venture to say that scripture takes presidence even over a Prophet. A prophet is only a prophet when speaking as such. We are to test their words against scripture as well as any other person.

I agree. As Joseph Smith warned us, the scriptures are our standard & key to tell truth from error, or even 'true prophets from 'false' prophets, which we are counseled to watch out for in these last days (which Joseph had alot of experience with even in his day).

True revelation from Prophets will never contradict the scriptures or other true revelation from past prophets.

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

Amore: And if we aren't close to the HG, we will not know if there is any conflict. Comes back once again to a personal relationship with Christ.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

I venture to say that scripture takes presidence even over a Prophet. A prophet is only a prophet when speaking as such. We are to test their words against scripture as well as any other person.

I agree. As Joseph Smith warned us, the scriptures are our standard & key to tell truth from error, or even 'true prophets from 'false' prophets, which we are counseled to watch out for in these last days (which Joseph had alot of experience with even in his day).

True revelation from Prophets will never contradict the scriptures or other true revelation from past prophets.

Scriptures are our source of strong testimony...and a key to Eternal Life.

2 Nephi 31:20
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

1 press forward with a steadfastness in Christ
2 a perfect brightness of hope
3 love of God and of all men
4 press forward
5 feasting upon the word of Christ
6 endure to the end,
7 Ye shall have eternal life

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

Freedom Fighter: True but why then do so few really study/ponder the scriptures even when they are told that the only way to survive the wiles of the Devil, is to hold on to the IRON ROD?

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

Freedom Fighter: True but why then do so few really study/ponder the scriptures even when they are told that the only way to survive the wiles of the Devil, is to hold on to the IRON ROD?

When thou art converted strengthen thy brethren.
Many members are not truly converted, or there could be sin that has not been dealt with, or they could still be in a state of being "the natural man."
The "mighty change" creates a new creature, one who wants to feast upon the words of Christ; one who is steadfast and immovable, one who hungers and thirsts after righteousness.
Lehi's dream of the Tree of Life explains how many people will not hold to the ROD and will fall into forbidden paths.
Our mind is like a magnet. When we feast upon the word our mind is filled with Christ's words, which in turn, helps us to ward off the fiery darts of the adversary. When are minds are filled with worldly things this is what we focus on. Our mind puts out what is being put into it.

This is my take on it.

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

FF: Can we help others to catch that spirit you very well describe or is that totally something they have to do on their own?

[Amore Verocaptain of 100]

FF: Can we help others to catch that spirit you very well describe or is that totally something they have to do on their own?

Good question Samuel. I believe the Spirit is the 'oil in our lamps' that can't be shared but must be individually earned.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

FF: Can we help others to catch that spirit you very well describe or is that totally something they have to do on their own?

Every member needs to go through this process if they desire to pluck the fruit of the Tree of Life. This is a bit lengthy but here it is. Those who like reading scriptures will read it. Those with a different agenda may not.

Alma 32:26-43
26 Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.
27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.
28 Now, we will compare the word (scriptures) unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.
29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.
30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.
31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own likeness.
32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.
33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.
34 And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand.
35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?
36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.
37 And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit.
38 But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.
39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.
40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the tree of life.
41 But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with patience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree springing up unto everlasting life.
42 And because of your diligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the fruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst.
43 Then, my brethren, ye shall reap the rewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth fruit unto you.

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

Freedom Fighter: Thank you taking the time to post these scriptures. It seems to me that it makes it very clear that ecah of us MUST go through a process which is clear and straigtforward. At the final judgement, no one can say it wasn't known what to do. Why do must people in the world NOT go this process and perahps even some in the Church?

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

Why do must people in the world NOT go this process and perahps even some in the Church?

Indifference, apathy, unbelief, self-righteousness (those who think they are christ-like and good, yet give Christ no credit). Christ said "those who are not with me are against me."