Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

Jason: I'm sorry. I was trying to "stir things up a little." I forgot :D

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Jason
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Jason »

Samuel the Lamanite wrote:Jason: I'm sorry. I was trying to "stir things up a little." I forgot :D
LOL....gonna have to get you and Mahonri together!

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

Jason, more than maybe anyone here, I need to step back, relax and have a great belly laugh at least once a day. I appreciate anyone who can get me rolling on the floor holding my sides. ;)

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gruden2.0
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by gruden2.0 »

Wasn't this posted here before? Anyway, I received a version of this recently in my email. In my version, the person who brought up Pres. Packer had had an NDE indicating that what Packer had said was about to come to pass. I guess relating an impression isn't enough, it has to be an NDE. I'm sure other versions will appear shortly.

I hate to be a party pooper, but I re-read this section in Ether, and Moroni's commentary is an interjection that breaks the narrative. In the narrative, Ether is busy prophesying and, specifically in 12:3, it states he was exhorting the Jaredites to repentance just prior to their final destructive war.

When Alma and Amulek were preaching to the people of Ammonihah repentance prior to their destruction. I don't think the scriptures bear out what this email asserts.

In both cases Moroni's Faith, Hope & Charity interjections are breaks in the narrative. They are not part of what was going on amongst the Jaredites or Nephites at the time.

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

Gruden: So I conclude that you don't see F<H< and C as one of God's patterns?

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gruden2.0
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

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Samuel the Lamanite wrote:Gruden: So I conclude that you don't see F<H< and C as one of God's patterns?
Faith, Hope and Charity is a spiritual progression. But you already know that, right?

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

Gruden: Certianly a matter of progression but I would suggest that there is a minmal level of each in order to past the test.

What say ye?

HeberC
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by HeberC »

gruden, what you said about the faith, hope and charity sermon being a break in the narrative is exactly true. The Lord edited it that way for a reason, though.

In parts of the Book of Mormon, when the prophet says the Spirit stopped him from saying more on a topic, pay attention to what comes next. The prophet may quote from earlier scripture and that tells us indirectly what the Spirit told him to not reveal directly.

The more open we are to types and metaphors, the more we will see the Last Days in the scriptures, and especially in the Book of Mormon.

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gruden2.0
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by gruden2.0 »

HeberC wrote:gruden, what you said about the faith, hope and charity sermon being a break in the narrative is exactly true. The Lord edited it that way for a reason, though.

In parts of the Book of Mormon, when the prophet says the Spirit stopped him from saying more on a topic, pay attention to what comes next. The prophet may quote from earlier scripture and that tells us indirectly what the Spirit told him to not reveal directly.

The more open we are to types and metaphors, the more we will see the Last Days in the scriptures, and especially in the Book of Mormon.
Heber,

Of course, and it's appropriate to say what you've said, but that is completely separate from what the email asserts.

Moroni sees a relationship between a society staring into the abyss and the importance of Faith, Hope & Charity. But the email doesn't say this. It says just before destructions prophets stop talking repentance and start talking F,H&C. The Book of Mormon text does not support that at all. In many cases it's the opposite.

What surprises me is no one has brought up why Mormon was told to stop preaching repentance to the Nephites. It wasn't because of a 'cycle' or pattern. It was a completely different reason stated very clearly. If that reason was true today we should all be trembling in fear and dread.

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

Gruden: Great question. IMO, God commanded Mormon to stop becauase the people were beyond repentance. It was useless to "waste your breath." Are we as Saints to that point in God's eyes given the messages of the GAs? What say ye?

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gruden2.0
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by gruden2.0 »

One interesting similarity between Ether and Mormon is the intense desire to preach repentance. Of Ether it was said his spirit could not be restrained. For Mormon it seems clear he struggled with that command because he wanted so badly to get his people back on track. Of Alma it was also said that he could not rest. They just had to get out there and proclaim repentance, etc.

That such an email was circulated indicates that people sense this is an important message. Why it's not happening so much today I couldn't fathom. While I don't think we're at the same state as the Nephites at their end, that we don't hear this message consistently gives me great pause for concern. The only people this message does not apply to are those to whom the Lord has stated through the more sure word of prophecy that they are saved. Everyone else needs this message, which is nearly all of us.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Original_Intent »

Samuel the Lamanite wrote:Gruden: Great question. IMO, God commanded Mormon to stop becauase the people were beyond repentance. It was useless to "waste your breath." Are we as Saints to that point in God's eyes given the messages of the GAs? What say ye?
not just wasted breath, but it actually brings one under greater condemnation.

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

OI, Please explain what you mean? How can that be?

Squally
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Squally »

Hope you enjoy the conference this weekend on faith hope and charity. ;)

Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Yep, we're on the precipice of destructions.
Last edited by Squally on September 30th, 2011, 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vision
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Vision »

Elder Hales said this in 2009 in his Welfare Training Broadcast "The economic clouds that have long threatened the world are now fully upon us. The impact of this economic storm on our Heavenly Father’s children requires a gospel vision of welfare today more than ever before. Priesthood-based welfare principles are both temporal and spiritual. They are also eternal and apply in every circumstance. Whether we are rich or poor, they are for us."

Jerath23
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Jerath23 »

Gruden what does NDE mean?

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linj2fly
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

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Jerath23 wrote:Gruden what does NDE mean?
I think he was talking about a near death experience...I could be way wrong.

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sonofliberty
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by sonofliberty »

Col. Flagg wrote:I got this e-mail from a good friend of mine - wanted to post it here and share it because I think it hits home and the nail right on the head...
For the past couple of years, I have wondered why in General Conference, the Brethren have been relatively silent in warning, giving counsel in preparing for the last days etc. I have prayed and yearned for Samuel the Lamanite-like talks, or President Benson's or Bruce R. McConkie's talks... yet instead we have been getting talks on Faith, on Hope.. on Charity/Service etc.. Every conference that we have we seem to hear more on hope, on charity. President Monson’s talk on the mother that needed hope despite having to bury her children in
frozen ground with a spoon was almost more than I could bare. Why these talks on the big 3 (Faith, Hope, and Charity) instead of one year’s supply of food, emergency preparedness, preparing for eminent catastrophes?

On my knees asking my Father… here the world is crumbling, disasters are eminent, people are not prepared and need to be. I was very frustrated and wondered WHY ARE WE NOT GETTING THE WARNINGS...

Well… ask and you shall receive.

I then had a wonderful phone conversation with my mother-in-law, and she felt impressed to tell me one thing in particular. She said things are so very close to all of the "prophesied" things to begin happening. We talked about the "cycle" (talked about in the Boyd K Packer's Priesthood Talk in given in conference in April 2009) . We noticed that just before things completely fall apart and collapse with utter destruction, the Lord's anointed stop warning, and start speaking about faith, hope and charity. IT IS THE LAST STAGE IN THE
CYCLE.

Then it hit me... The Book of Mormon is a template for this as well. Case in point. We read in Ether... we get all the warnings about secret combinations etc. and how the wickedness is abounding and that the people will be destroyed if they don't repent.. then just before
the entire civilization gets destroyed we get the 12th chapter on FAITH, HOPE and CHARITY.. then the destructions in the following chapter to the complete destruction of that civilization.
Another example we find in Moroni chapter 8.. just before telling us that the people will perish and the prophecies will be fulfilled, Mormon teaches his son Moroni (and us), about Faith, Hope and Charity.
(Note also, the Apostle Paul speaking to the Early Christian in I Corinthians 13 on Faith, Hope and Charity before the fall of Roman and the Christian persecution)

Okay... fast forward to [recent] conferences.. what messages are we hearing... FAITH, HOPE, and CHARITY!!!!!

WOW.. it hit me like a ton of bricks.. It was the answer that I needed to hear about why we aren't receiving the voice of warning like I wanted.

Here is how I see the cycle now: As a people we move from being Humble… to Obedient…to Blessed…. to Living Righteously…. to Ease… to Laziness… to Prideful…. to Selfishness… to Immorality/Sin…. to Having the prophets warn us to repent….. to Wickedness…. to Ripening to the Point of no return….. to No more on Warnings, but teaching the humble followers to have Faith, Hope, and Charity….. -THEN DESTRUCTION, CALAMITIES for the wicked, etc.- and purifying the righteous and unfortunately compelling us back to being HUMBLE.....

So, we probably won't see the prophets speaking to us to warn us.. we are past that time, we are in the final stage. This is the Lord's way, just as He has done with the 2 prior civilizations (Jaredites, and the Nephites).. It is my opinion, the more we hear about HOPE, don't DESPAIR, etc. .. THE CLOSER WE ARE!

Just as a side note that just hit me, In one of my last videos, "Great
Trials Lie Ahead".. Please watch if you haven’t already. Here is the
link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTVECvTY ... annel_page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I started out with all of the warnings of Elder McConkie, President Benson, President Eyring.... and felt very strongly to end the video with the statements of HOPE by President Uchtdorf... This is a pattern, it is pattern seen in the Book of Mormon and we are following that same pattern today... NEXT STEP for ALL OF US: The Destruction of the Wicked and the Saints being Humbled.. Which especially here in Salt Lake is needed. and by the way....the Book of Mormon is true.
I know I am late to the game but that is very enlightening! Thanks for sharing Col!

Reading this got me thinking about President Benson's last conference talk that he actually gave (there were I think two others afterwards that were actually read by President Monson and President Hinckley) in October 1988 (I Testify: http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1 ... edia=video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) . In that talk he states
I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.) I testify that it is time for every man to set in order his own house both temporally and spiritually ... I testify that not many years hence the earth will be cleansed. (See D&C 76:41.)"
Then, after this testimony, he does not speak publicly again and we have silence from the prophet (the only time I am aware of this happening in this dispensation) until he is taken from the Earth in May 1994, approximately 5 1/2 years later. Since then we have had Faith, Hope and Charity with only suttle warnings sprinkled in. Am I reaching here, or do others find this as interesting as I do?
Last edited by sonofliberty on December 6th, 2012, 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jdawg1012
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by jdawg1012 »

I'm late too, but I saw that video about 4 or so years ago. It's an interesting theory. I hadn't seen this, so, thanks all for posting.

eric
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by eric »

loquaciousmomma wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:I got this e-mail from a good friend of mine -
You are friends with DavidKat?!! How awesome!!

I absolutely love his videos and have been sad that he hasn't made so many in recent months.



I think I am going to need to study this out myself. I have been too distracted to see this pattern myself.

Time to repent and get to work!
Col. - you just went way up in my estimation. My wife thought you were a total apostate!! LOL

David and I were comps down in Brazil - what a GREAT guy! I love his vids! Thanks for the great message - that really hit the spot for me.

MsEva
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by MsEva »

I am late seeing this thread as well....but after reading that e mail..Whoaaa, that makes total sense now! I have heard a few people say that the Prophet and leaders will let us know...but I always had a different feeling and now I see why. Thanks for posting.

moving2zion
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by moving2zion »

I'll add my 2nd to the original posting. Two years ago an apostle came and spoke in our stake conference. Pretty cool took good notes they are in one of my journals somewhere. Afterwards the apostle ( I really feel bad now because at this point two years later I don't remember which one it was) had dinner at the home of a member of our stake presidency as they often do when they stay in the homes of local members. An individual who was there for the dinner asked him why the withdrawal from discussing preparedness related issues. He was very forthright from what I was told of the event in explaining as the members of the church in particular and the world at large fail to heed the council given and the words of the living prophet they are then commanded by the Lord to seal up their mouths and not teach or dwell any longer on that subject. To me it made perfect sense as there are several examples in the scriptures of times when the Lords chosen fail to heed his word, the prophets seal up their testimonies/ stop talking about the subject, and the Lord sends forth the destroying angel to humble his people.

Seek the Truth
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Seek the Truth »

m2z I believe you, I've always thought the brethren would actually be less able to give us specific warnings like these and their silence should be the alarms. We're not children to be spoonfed, we've been warned over and over and over again, it's in our cultural DNA. But some still wait.

In fact, your point here should be one of the largest points of discussion for church members.

rindee
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by rindee »

Trying to study the "cycle" that is mentioned in the original post that Boyd I Packer teaches about in the April 2008 Priesthood session of General Conference. That talk is entitled "To the Young men " and it mentions nothing of a cycle. Was this a typo? Does anyone know what the actual talk is? Can you post a link so that I can find it for sure?

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Jason
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Re: Faith, hope, charity... and then the destructions

Post by Jason »

rindee wrote:Trying to study the "cycle" that is mentioned in the original post that Boyd I Packer teaches about in the April 2008 Priesthood session of General Conference. That talk is entitled "To the Young men " and it mentions nothing of a cycle. Was this a typo? Does anyone know what the actual talk is? Can you post a link so that I can find it for sure?
Elder Packer didn't provide talks in either of the 2008 Priesthood sessions.
Counsel to Young Men - April 2009
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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