Col. Flagg wrote:Mark wrote:Col. Flagg wrote:Mark, I don't care if RT is as communist as they come - the fact is that they deliver truth and facts which our media either won't touch, address or investigate - like as was said above - truth is truth, no matter the source, period. In fact, I would trust RT over our mainstream media any day... and that is sad and pathetic for ours. In the clip above I posted with Tarpley on Hannity and Colmes, Webster is telling 100% truth while Hannity and Colmes insult him and interupt with attacks and what news network is it? Fox. RT has had numerous individuals on their network who are experts and courageous in the realm of 9/11 and you know what they do? They ask questions to their guests without attacking to discredit and they aren't afraid to put the real meat out there such as the evidence of nano-thermate, molten metal under all 3 buildings, etc. Our media is a joke and they are ignorant cowards with nothing 'investigative' about them at all - if it comes from Washington, DC, that's good enough for them - RT runs circles around our so-called 'media'.
Tarpley outright lied when he proclaimed that Building 7 was the only steel framed building history that came down with no plane hitting it and no fire. Anyone with a lick of sense knows that building 7 had sustained major fire damage from fires that had been burning for several hours. Are you seriously going to try and defend this guy Col? This just shows me that when someone has their minds made up they will discount anything that contradicts their premise no matter how many facts come forward to contradict that mindset.
You seriously need to do some research on communist propaganda outlets in the history of the Soviet Union Col. For you to say that a communist outlet really doesn't matter to you shows an amazing lack of understanding what communist propaganda outlets are designed to do.
Yes, I will admit - Tarpley was not totally accurate when he said that there were no fires in building 7 - there were a few on some floors, but nothing even remotely close to resembling a raging inferno. This actually brings up a very good question Mark... why and how do you suppose debris from the WTC's which were over 150 yards away is going to ignite fires in building 7? There must have been some serious heat from the WTC's, which we know were loaded with both conventional and non-conventional high-tech explosives (nano-thermate being what weakened the structures enough to allow for their complete demolition), which was obviously the culprit. I also find it rather amusing that you are accusing me of showing a lack of understanding of communist propaganda when your lack of understanding regarding the scientific evidence, facts, laws of physics, amazing coincidences and eyewitness accounts about the realities of 9/11 is far more heinous. Seriously... is your obsession with communism so deep that you can't see or think beyond the realm of it? I'm sorry, but at least Vladamir Putin isn't guilty and liable in the deaths of over 3,000 innocent people, thousands of our own soldiers and hundreds of thousands in Iraq/Afghanistan, as is our former VP Dick Cheney. I understand the seriousness of communism Mark and how evil Putin, the KGB, Medvedev, etc. all are and that they would love to take us down given the opportunity, but they were in no way, shape or form involved with the destruction of the World Trade Centers, the Pentagon or the shredding of our civil liberties and criminal profiteering by defense corporations and the enrichment of the military-industrial complex. Mark, war is big business... and also a racket... there is a reason those two phrases were coined. Have you ever studied the history of false flag operations?
Lets just call a spade a spade Col. Tarpley lied. He said their was no fire in building 7. That is not a question of being totally accurate. It is a bald faced lie. No raging inferno Bro? Lets review what the firefighters who were on the scene were saying:
"They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone. We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers were because we were that high up. Looking over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water and West Street. They put everybody back in there. Finally it did come down. From there - this is much later on in the day, because every day we were so worried about that building we didn't really want to get people close. They were trying to limit the amount of people that were in there. Finally it did come down." - Richard Banaciski
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/ny ... C_GRAPHIC/
Here is more evidence they pulled the teams out waiting for a normal collapse from fire...
"The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse (Of the WTC towers) had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely" - Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/ny ... C_GRAPHIC/
"Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area -- (Q. A collapse zone?) -- Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed." - Chief Cruthers
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/ny ... TC_GRAPHIC
"Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 [o'clock], that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, [we've] got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. (Q. Initially when you were there, you had said you heard a few Maydays?) Oh, yes. We had Maydays like crazy.... The heat must have been tremendous. There was so much [expletive] fire there. This whole pile was burning like crazy. Just the heat and the smoke from all the other buildings on fire, you [couldn't] see anything. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and [that's] when 7 collapsed.... Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess." - Lieutenant William Ryan
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/ny ... TC_GRAPHIC
"Firehouse: Did that chief give an assignment to go to building 7?
Boyle: He gave out an assignment. I didn’t know exactly what it was, but he told the chief that we were heading down to the site.
Firehouse: How many companies?
Boyle: There were four engines and at least three trucks. So we’re heading east on Vesey, we couldn’t see much past Broadway. We couldn’t see Church Street. We couldn’t see what was down there. It was really smoky and dusty."
"A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.
But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.
So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.
Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?
Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.
Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/ ... boyle.html
(Broken Link Cached here: http://www.webcitation.org/5IuRwM61d )
This proves there was a big hole on the south side of the building. From the photographic evidence and these quotes which aren't meant to be technical, I suspect there was a large hole in the center of the building which may have gone up 10 stories connected to a large rip on the left side of the building which continued up another 10 or more stories. Together they would make "a hole 20 stories tall".
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted everybody away from number 7— did you have to get all of those people out?
Hayden: Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn’t want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn’t even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses. We didn’t know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. We said, this building is going to come down, get back. It came down about 5 o’clock or so, but we had everybody backed away by then. At that point in time, it seemed like a somewhat smaller event, but under any normal circumstances, that’s a major event, a 47-story building collapsing. It seemed like a firecracker after the other ones came down, but I mean that’s a big building, and when it came down, it was quite an event. But having gone through the other two, it didn’t seem so bad. But that’s what we were concerned about. We had said to the guys, we lost as many as 300 guys. We didn’t want to lose any more people that day. And when those numbers start to set in among everybody… My feeling early on was we weren’t going to find any survivors. You either made it out or you didn’t make it out. It was a cataclysmic event. The idea of somebody living in that thing to me would have been only short of a miracle. This thing became geographically sectored because of the collapse. I was at West and Liberty. I couldn’t go further north on West Street. And I couldn’t go further east on Liberty because of the collapse of the south tower, so physically we were boxed in.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/ ... ayden.html
(Broken Link - Ask Firehouse.com)
Now I just goggled this and found it in 5 minutes. I honestly don't understand the lack of intellectual honesty here when it comes to this basic knowledge of what really was happening with building 7 with these fires. Is it fair and honest to say that building 7 did not really have much of any fire damage? I don't think it is. Why not lay the facts on the table regardless of where they might lead and let the chips fall as they may? What are you afraid of?