Too many LDS are shunning Democrats

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

Even though this article is old, I assume it still holds true today. Sadly.
As seen at: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/prin ... crats.html

Too many LDS are shunning Democrats
By Dynette Reynolds

Published: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:09 a.m. MDT
Every year at election time, the LDS Church sends out an official letter stating that the LDS Church does not support any particular political party. Recently, a letter noted that both parties contained elements in their platforms that were consistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I am sad to report that message has been ignored.

Since the last election, Utah Mormons who are Democrats have faced increasingly vicious verbal attacks in their wards and in their neighborhoods. Those of us who were openly involved in the campaign have been called "socialists" and "terrorists." Our Christianity and patriotism have been questioned by ward members. We have been snubbed and sneered at. We have been forced to listen to political diatribes against the president of the United States in our auxiliary meetings and testimony meetings. Racial jokes are being told in church foyers.

These attacks are especially hurtful since they come from people who have been our friends for many years. These are people we brought meals to when they were sick, whose children we drove to school, and whom we served with on ward committees and in school PTAs. We sat down together at potluck dinners and ice cream socials together.

Now we are being shunned. Some of us have even stopped going to church. We don't feel like we should have to defend our political beliefs every time we step through the church doors. We don't want to argue with ward members who spout lines from Rush Limbaugh in our church classrooms. Our bishops are trying to calm things down but they aren't having much luck.

There are tough times ahead. We need to come together. During the Great Depression, it was the LDS Church that set an example for the rest of the country, creating a generous and great-hearted welfare system that served as a model for the rest of the nation. Perhaps this time we could be the first in the nation to find a way to mend our political divisions. The entire country needs guidance.

Dynette Reynolds of Ogden is an adjunct teacher of history at Weber State University.
© 2011 Deseret News Publishing Company | All rights reserved

[Silascaptain of 100]

That is sad. I disagree with democrats a lot, but no more than I do with republicans. If I had to choose between the two I could just as easily take democrats over republicans however I don't think either would want me. That conduct has no place in the church. I will say however that the words of the prophets tend to fall on the conservative side and I've met a few democrat Mormons who get a little upset whenever church leaders publicly oppose things that go against what their party supports. Ultimately regardless of party our loyalty to the church should always be more important than our loyalty to political parties.

[n8-rcaptain of 100]

Democrat, Republican, who cares. As previously said, they are just two sides of the same coin. The point of this article is that LDS members should not persecute Democratic LDS members for their belief in false principles. I would have to agree that they should not be persecuted. However, both democratic and republican LDS members are largely embracing socialist principles and beliefs. We as lovers and promoters of freedom should stand up against these false principles and their teachers in the appropriate manner. While not persecuting the people themselves, we should address and openly rebuke the false principles, beliefs, and teachings of these people and bring the deceit of such to light to all who will listen.

[Rinconcaptain of 100]

Removed

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

This is sad indeed. I think a lot of this contention could have been avoided had members of the church listened and heeded the warnings given by our leaders so many times. Basically, we were told to awaken to our aweful situation, to aschew socialism in any form and to embrace the gospel with full purpose of heart.
I would venture to say that when one knows the gospel well enough, the Lord's words are not superseded by political platform and wayward justification of its swayings no matter what political party one is attached to.

Ezra Taft Benson said:
"Yes, there is a conspiracy of evil. The source of it all is Satan and his hosts. He has a great power over men to “lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken” to the voice of the Lord. (Moses 4:4.) His evil influence may be manifest through governments; through false educational, political, economic, religious, and social philosophies; through secret societies and organizations; and through myriads of other forms. His power and influence are so great that, if possible, he would deceive the very elect. As the second coming of the Lord approaches, Satan’s work will intensify through numerous insidious deceptions."Ezra Taft Benson, “May the Kingdom of God Go Forth,” Ensign, May 1978, 32

Is this an example of what Pres. Benson said about deceptions?: http://thefaithfuldissident.blogspot.com/2008/10/ezra-taft-benson-vs-democratic.html

This is a great rebuttal to the previous article:
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/ar ... ted-order/

Doesn't this guy gives us the impression that socialism is good?

[Randcaptain of 1,000]

You know, I have to say that this sounds like a typical liberal ploy. Make unfounded accusations that make the other side look awful through these unsubstantiated claims. There may be some basis to this, but I would bet it is out of proportion and more than a little out of context. I just don't see vicious attacks as they are described happening at the insinuated level. Could be true, I just don't see it. Call be a doubting Thomas.

Too many LDS are shunning Democrats

How many is too many? Did they count? Is there an acceptable number and we have now exceeded the quota?
Every year at election time, the LDS Church sends out an official letter stating that the LDS Church does not support any particular political party. Recently, a letter noted that both parties contained elements in their platforms that were consistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I am sad to report that message has been ignored.

Have you done a poll? Have you been thorough in your accusation? How many friends did you talk to, or is it just through the practice of gossip that allowed you to to come to this desired conclusion?

Since the last election, Utah Mormons who are Democrats have faced increasingly vicious verbal attacks in their wards and in their neighborhoods. (Vicious attacks? Sounds again like a typical liberal mode, attack the attacker, before they attack. Those of us who were openly involved in the campaign have been called "socialists" and "terrorists." Our Christianity and patriotism have been questioned by ward members. We have been snubbed and sneered at. We have been forced (Really? They tied you down and forced you to listen?) to listen to political diatribes against the president of the United States in our auxiliary meetings and testimony meetings. Racial jokes are being told in church foyers.

These attacks are especially hurtful since they come from people who have been our friends for many years. These are people we brought meals to when they were sick, whose children we drove to school, and whom we served with on ward committees and in school PTAs. We sat down together at potluck dinners and ice cream socials together.

Now we are being shunned.

Oh my goodness. This is too much.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if some of this didn't happen on some scale, but this is so out there, that I can't help but scoff a little. It is so one sided: "We are just good christlike people, and the republicans are intolerant." If you were christlike, you wouldn't be complaining and accusing others.

The ultimate right on our country is to claim to be a picked on minority and to accuse others endlessly of not appreciating our own personal prejudices and our individual victimhood.

There! I got that off my chest. Sorry I "forced" you to read it.

[kathyncaptain of 1,000]

I have family members who are staunch Republicans. I have other family members who are very active in the Democrat party. A lot of us are independents. We just know enough to stay clear of certain subjects around certain individuals. My family is more important to me than their politics.

[durangoutcaptain of 1,000]

As well they should. Dems are cearly further away from what is right than Republicans (not saying they are the good by any means). I honestly don't see how a member in good standing could be a Dem.

[5tev3captain of 100]

I like to shun Democrats and Republicans equally; the parties though, not the misguided citizens who identify themselves as such.

[gooseguy11captain of 100]

People of both parties want the same thing they are just calling it different things. If we could just get rid of the parties and elect people on principle...

I know entirely to simplified, it is just how I FEEL.

[Rinconcaptain of 100]

Removed

[Cowboycaptain of 100]

Who wouldn't shun a party that has as MAIN planks Abortion and Gay rights?

[BrianM]

Liberals want to grow the government and Conservatives want to shrink it.

If only that were true! Conservatives often speak of reducing the size of government, but for the most part their actions and words reveal that they simply want to grow the government less than Liberals. The recent budget proposals are proof of this (i.e. proposing cuts of just billions when trillions need to be cut to truly begin to solve the problem, and the so-called conservatives are simply proposing to cut a little bit more than liberals, but nothing substantial).

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I wonder what reaction there would be around the church if President Monson were to state in April General Conference that "we must eschew socialism and support and sustain, in the manner revealed and as interpreted by the Lord, those just and holy principles embodied in the Constitution of the United States for the protection of our God-given agency." I wonder if it would be taken any less seriously if it were spoken by one of his counselors. President Romney said about the same thing as counselor to President McKay in the April 1966 General Conference and ....

[gkearneycaptain of 100]

Have things gotten as bad as the letter would suggest. I don't recall ever hearing such political talk in church in Australia. Here mixing your religion and your politics in church or anyplace else is considered to be in bad taste. You would be unable to make an assumption about which political party a church member might be voting for.

Here the party you support is more likely to be decided by who you are, for example:

If you work for another, or are a union member, unions are still quite strong here, then you likely vote Labor
If you are a manager or run your own business you will likely vote LIberal
If your a farmer or involved in agriculture is some other way your likely a National voter.
If you have very strong opinions about the environment or make your living where environmental issues are paramount then you will likely vote Green.

All that said most Australian are not formal members of any political party. We use a Westminster form of government here so we do not directly elect the Prime Minister who serves at the will of his or her party caucus. This mean we can, and do, get new prime ministers at the drop of a hat.

[BrianM]

Here the party you support is more likely to be decided by who you are, for example:

If you work for another, or are a union member, unions are still quite strong here, then you likely vote Labor
If you are a manager or run your own business you will likely vote LIberal
If your a farmer or involved in agriculture is some other way your likely a National voter.
If you have very strong opinions about the environment or make your living where environmental issues are paramount then you will likely vote Green.

Interesting. So, are all 4 of those parties what you might call a "majority party"? Basically here in the U.S. if the candidate isn't Republican or Democrat (the majority parties) they have almost no chance of winning. Very rarely does an independent or 3rd party candidate (i.e. Constitution Party, Libertarian, Green, etc) win an election. Typically one who votes for a 3rd party candidate does so based on principles knowing that the candidate is unlikely to win, but demonstrating their commitment to the principles of Liberty over party politics and popularity.

[gkearneycaptain of 100]

Yes all four are major parties and all four win seats in the House of Representative (lower) and particularly the Senate (upper) where even the minor parties, Family First, Socialist, Communists and so on can and do win seats.

In Australia you rate your choices 1, 2, 3 .. and so on. The person who wins the over all vote wins the seat this means, for example if the Liberals and the Nationals split the first place votes between them but most everyone chooses the Labor candidate for there second choice then Labor would win the seat.

The party, or coalitions of parties with the a majority of the seats in the lower house forms the government. The current Labor government here has a working majority of 1 MP an independent. This makes for a very weak government which I suspect can not stand for very long before we have a new election. Labor is in coalition with independent MPs to form the government. This was politics at its rawest with all kinds of deals being made to get the rural independents to side with Labor over the LIberal/National coalition. Some of the small towns in rural New South Wales got some nice new schools and community buildings out of that deal.

The Head of State is Queen Elizabeth II, she is represented here by the Governor General. Almost no political power rests with the Head of State, she can not even vote here. The Queen rather acts like a living constitution stepping in only in the event of a major governmental crisis and then only to devolve parliament and call a new election. That has happened just once in Australian history. The Queen via the Governor General give Royal Consent to each bill passed and in that way acts as a check and balance against a tyrannical government that might seek to deprive Australians of their liberties.

It's a sometimes messy system, filled with what Americans would likely find uncivil public debate on the floor of parliament where heckling, foot pounding and charges of being a liar are commonplace. The Prime Minister must stand in the parliament and take questions from the opposition every week. This is called "Questions Time" and is great political sport. The Senate is more refined and acts more like the British House of Lords but unlike the Lords in England our Senators are elected. There are 12 Senators for each state and 2 from each territory. House members are elected by population.

You now have had your Australian civics course, are you ready for the test?

[BrianM]

....You now have had your Australian civics course, are you ready for the test?

Thanks.

[Silascaptain of 100]

I have known some democrats who were treated poorly by church members which is wrong but it doesn't speak well for them, when the most prominent mormon democrat says that Ezra Taft Benson led the church astray...

[Rinconcaptain of 100]

Removed

[InfoWarrior82captain of 1,000]

It's already been said here that the two party system is a very elaborate distraction. There is a difference between republicans/democrats and conservatives/liberals. Today, most republicans in office are nothing more than false conservatives. Most democrats in office today are nothing more than flaming socialists. If you are LDS and a socialist, you are in the wrong in every possible way imaginable. If you are LDS and follow the rebublican party platform today, you are being decieved and you need to read the constitution and follow it no matter how scared you are of Al Qaeda. The one true republican left today (as republicans were MEANT to be) has got to be Ron Paul. His call to follow the constitution is being mocked by both parties.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

You know, I have to say that this sounds like a typical liberal ploy. Make unfounded accusations that make the other side look awful through these unsubstantiated claims. There may be some basis to this, but I would bet it is out of proportion and more than a little out of context. I just don't see vicious attacks as they are described happening at the insinuated level. Could be true, I just don't see it. Call be a doubting Thomas.

Too many LDS are shunning Democrats

How many is too many? Did they count? Is there an acceptable number and we have now exceeded the quota?
Every year at election time, the LDS Church sends out an official letter stating that the LDS Church does not support any particular political party. Recently, a letter noted that both parties contained elements in their platforms that were consistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I am sad to report that message has been ignored.

Have you done a poll? Have you been thorough in your accusation? How many friends did you talk to, or is it just through the practice of gossip that allowed you to to come to this desired conclusion?

Since the last election, Utah Mormons who are Democrats have faced increasingly vicious verbal attacks in their wards and in their neighborhoods. (Vicious attacks? Sounds again like a typical liberal mode, attack the attacker, before they attack. Those of us who were openly involved in the campaign have been called "socialists" and "terrorists." Our Christianity and patriotism have been questioned by ward members. We have been snubbed and sneered at. We have been forced (Really? They tied you down and forced you to listen?) to listen to political diatribes against the president of the United States in our auxiliary meetings and testimony meetings. Racial jokes are being told in church foyers.

These attacks are especially hurtful since they come from people who have been our friends for many years. These are people we brought meals to when they were sick, whose children we drove to school, and whom we served with on ward committees and in school PTAs. We sat down together at potluck dinners and ice cream socials together.

Now we are being shunned.

Oh my goodness. This is too much.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if some of this didn't happen on some scale, but this is so out there, that I can't help but scoff a little. It is so one sided: "We are just good christlike people, and the republicans are intolerant." If you were christlike, you wouldn't be complaining and accusing others. Where does this come from?The ultimate right on our country is to claim to be a picked on minority and to accuse others endlessly of not appreciating our own personal prejudices and our individual victimhood.

There! I got that off my chest. Sorry I "forced" you to read it.

You're asking the wrong person. This article was in the Deseret News. I just presented it for discussion because I thought LDS should know better than to attack each other, sort of like what you've done in your post without getting facts. Kind of proves my point doesn't it? You may want to see who the author actually is. I don't even reside in UT.
Take it up with the person that wrote the article,

Dynette Reynolds of Ogden is an adjunct teacher of history at Weber State University.

This is what I wrote in my next post:

This is sad indeed. I think a lot of this contention could have been avoided had members of the church listened and heeded the warnings given by our leaders so many times. Basically, we were told to awaken to our aweful situation, to aschew socialism in any form and to embrace the gospel with full purpose of heart.

. Does this sound like I'm defending the notion that it's okay to call friends and neighbors bad names just because they have a different political view?

In fact...it would be disasterous if this kind of conduct were to take place in our temples. Or does it? Heaven forbid.

[Randcaptain of 1,000]

Freedomfighter, I wasn't after you at all, just the fact that the article looks like pure propaganda to me. She will elicit not sympathy from me based on that. I am also of the view expressed by Pres. HInckley. We must be kind to all people at all times. This article just didn't cause me to believe that there is any substance to her accusation. That's all.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

Freedomfighter, I wasn't after you at all, just the fact that the article looks like pure propaganda to me. She will elicit not sympathy from me based on that. I am also of the view expressed by Pres. HInckley. We must be kind to all people at all times. This article just didn't cause me to believe that there is any substance to her accusation. That's all.

That's okay. Communication is sometimes hampered by the lack of simple explanation that would help the reader stay focused on the topic and not toward another poster. Here is what triggered that type of response, thinking it was directed at me. Just a little change of wording would have helped.

Have you (who?) done a poll? Have you (who?) been thorough in your accusation? How many friends did you (who?) talk to, or is it just through the practice of gossip that allowed you (who?)to to come to this desired conclusion?

Thanks for helping me to understand. Hope all goes well.

[Randcaptain of 1,000]

I apologize, I was speaking to the author of the article. My poor writing style. Thanks for your understanding spirit.

[Moss Mancaptain of 100]

Love the person and hate the sin (or political party).

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I find it a real challenge to have much of anything in common with a member who harbours political persuasions that would be detrimental to our country in any way, that would take money by force from one person and give to another via any government program, or that would support politicians of such persuasions.

[Rinconcaptain of 100]

Removed

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

I find it a real challenge to have much of anything in common with a member who harbours political persuasions that would be detrimental to our country in any way, that would take money by force from one person and give to another via any government program, or that would support politicians of such persuasions.

Democrats love forced charity. They are also God's children, so we must love them. Second commandment.

I was raised Democrat in Utah. It was only in my forties that I realized they were headed down the wrong track. So then I chose the best possible candidate for any political position all the way up to Pres. in succeeding elections. Now I'm pretty much going with Repubs. Time will only tell if I just go with the Constitutional Party. I don't want to waste my vote and I don't want my vote to bring in the waste.

I think a lot of church members lose sight of their real goal; to bring about righteousness from every avenue. Would a faithful, grounded member want gay rights, freedom of choice (abortion), government bailouts, food stamps, government run healthcare and a brand new government stamped hammock for their back yard?

What does "seeing eye to eye" with God really mean?
What does it mean to say "being one with God and He being one with us?"
What does it mean to "live by God's laws and not the precepts of men?"

[7cylon7captain of 1,000]

As well they should. Dems are cearly further away from what is right than Republicans (not saying they are the good by any means). I honestly don't see how a member in good standing could be a Dem.

In fact, at one time a GA told my Dad that really any member that was a democrat was not following his religion. What I mean by Democrat is this (more government, more welfare, taking from the rich and give to others, gay and lesbian rights, women's liberation movement) This is the communist party line. (go look it up lazy people) They make is all sound so good and how can you be against helping out your neighbor? You are heartless and only care about your riches if your a Republican.

What I mean by republican is (government by the constitution, small government, low taxes, going to war only when attacked directly and when authorized by congress, free and open and fair economy.. ect)

Those were the definitions use in my house until around 1990 and the NWO speech given by Bush. I started to question what was happening then the real eye opener was 9/11. Now both sides of the equation have completely redefined themselves. Though I still believe at heart most democrats are Socialist and communist in spirit. Their policies prove this to me. No republican could of gotten health care rammed through only democrats could do that. Yet, no democrat could of gotten the patriot act enforced. So you see the Illuminati which are Lucifer-iens run the show. They own both parties now. Both sides have been corrupted and now follow the NWO approach. Both sides tell us what we want to hear but then do whatever will promote the NWO agenda.

We all need to stop fighting ourselves on this Dem vs Rep stuff. We need to think of the constitution and support its laws giving authority. As the church has always stated but obviously not followed we should vote for righteous and honest men that support the views of our Lord and Savior. What that means can be twisted I am assured of.

In any case, we should not define ourselves as either. Both are now controlled by the Illuminati. By their fruits you shall know them. I see their fruits and they are evil fruits.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get cleaned up by man. Only the Lord will be able to clean this up. We have to do our best to support those ideas, laws and principles that we know to be right and true. The problem today is what is right and true is being confused with those things which are wrong and un-true. Good is evil and evil is good.