Constitution Saved? HOW

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
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AussieOi
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by AussieOi »

lundbaek wrote:I think I understand Aussie’s frustration with and apparent attitude toward members and certain leaders of the church, although maybe from a different perspective. This may be hard for some to believe, coming from me, but I do try to consider the various reasons for members and church leaders remaining inactive and silent in this battle. Although it's not easy when a member of the stake presidency tell me that he considers the book “None Dare Call It Conspiracy” by Gary Allen “mostly a bunch of bunk”.
And I have held back from saying certain things. On a fast and testimony Sunday a few months ago I was prepared to testify that “...the Lord established the Constitution of this land by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose, and as President Packer said about a year ago, "To honor the Constitution and to honor freedom is a sacred duty for all of us." “ I felt the Spirit tell me “Don’t say that”, and I skipped over that part of my testimony. But 2 months later, on the first Sunday in September, I felt impressed to say exactly that, loud and clear, after a member of our bishopric had just announced a Constitution Week activity in a neighboring town, and the stake president and other stake leaders were present.

Heres a new take
why not say you were recently communicating with an Australian LDS who used to detest the USA (for its in his words militaristic foreign policy)
then, as he saw his own freedoms being whittled away under the guise of this phoney "war on terror" he expressed how he only wishes he had protections that the US citizens have under their constitution.
his 14yr old son can be strip searched in the street by the police with no parent or lawyer being present.
and on and on
if only he had a 1st amendment, or a 4th
he says he can understand how the constitution HAD to be there to enable the church to be established and flourish
sadly, he shares my (im speaking for you here presumptuously now- apol) concerns that seeing how your freedoms are being similarly eroded, they dont seem to mean much anymore
at least we have the holy ghost to guide us through these awful times, and such quotes as Pres McKay, or others...that insert defending constitution is most important thing


no one can begrudge you that way to put it


yeah, church wont risk its tax free status, nor will it go on a limb.
its very republican too
more to the point tho, it knows if it says something then you go watch idiot LDS like some of the jokers here go out and shoot some abortionist doctor or politician

anyway, glad Wilford posted it.
its obvious anyway

we have a church of 3 groups
the inactives
the must be compelled, who are good at telling everyone else what to do
the others

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AussieOi
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by AussieOi »

Mark wrote:
Best be careful mate. You may find someday with that cynical attitude you constantly display about the church and its membership that it is you that goes thru that sifting process by failing the ultimate test of charity.

weren't we here in 2006 Mark?

heres a thought

the church is its membership
im a member despite the apathy to all things freedom of a great bulk of its members (indeed they applauded Darth Cheney 22 times with standing ovations)
and they're a member despite people like me

any minute now, right? isn't that the next line...ive seen many people ra ra, like you, ra ra, they were critical of the leaders, ra ra, all went apostate, ra ra, but not me, im perfect

isn't that the next post?

if the Pres can say the church goes on despite the missionaries, am i allowed to say i remain a member despite half its members?

why do you assume i am critical of the leadership?

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Darren
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Darren »

Only one thing can save the Constitution. A return to the principles of the free enterprise system and of the original constitution, that was the original contract between the church and Jesus Christ.

Either Jesus Christ will bring us back to the basis of that contract with the upcoming cleansing or, we will step forward and reclaim the basis of our Constitution.

A few of us are stepping forward, but is it too little too late?

God bless,
Darren

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AussieOi
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by AussieOi »

Darren wrote:Only one thing can save the Constitution. A return to the principles of the free enterprise system and of the original constitution, that was the original contract between the church and Jesus Christ.

Either Jesus Christ will bring us back to the basis of that contract with the upcoming cleansing or, we will step forward and reclaim the basis of our Constitution.

A few of us are stepping forward, but is it too little too late?

God bless,
Darren

not too late, but too many have to give up (to them) too much to return to that system
it means no safety net
the "system" as it were then , is not what we see today
today is govt programs. works for infrastructure building and investment thanks to the public nipple
but as maggie thatcher said, socialism only works until you run out of other peoples money
methinks that too many have been seduced by the spoils of the system
there is no going back, just decay now

lundbaek
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by lundbaek »

As I said recently, IMO it is too late to reverse course and return to the principles of the free enterprise system and of the original constitution this side of the "cleansing". That's why I am focusing now on what I hope will be the "remnant" that will establish government based on the principles of the original Constitution.

The success of establishing a post-cleansing government based on the principles of the original Constitution will require a "remnant" that espouses and abides by all the principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that includes “befriending” only laws which square with the original US Constitution and support the principles of fundamental or unalienable rights for all persons. It includes the determination to oppose efforts to circumvent those principles. It includes a willingness, even the desire, to make time participate in establishing and maintaining such government.

We would do well to begin and get on with the education of that "remnant" now. They have a tough task ahead of them.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Darren wrote: A few of us are stepping forward, but is it too little too late?

Sadly, yes, I agree with lundbaek when he says it's too late to save us from the cleansing of America. We've ignored counsel in the 60's and 70's and now we've passed the point of resolving this without pain and hardship. Once the government, as we know it is gone, we will gather together to a literal gathering place of LDS and build up a new city. We will abide by constitutional principles there (maybe not the exact same constitution) and people will flee their places of chaos just to be among Mormons in safety and civility.

lundbaek
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by lundbaek »

We ignored counsel in the 60's and 70's that could have reversed the "awful situation" and restored the principles of the original Constituiton to our government. For the Church to resume that counsel now would probably do more harm than good. But the counsel is there, just not nearly as obvious, unless one is attuned to it.

The thought of being attuned to it reminds me of an incident I checked out several years ago that demonstrates the importance of being in tune. As stated in an affidavit written years later and showed me by his wife, on 4 December 1941 senior USN radio operator Ralph Briggs was monitoring Japanese radio broadcasts and listening for certain specific messages. One of those messages was "East wind, rain". Apparently, he was one of a very few Americans who knew what that message would mean: war with the United States. He transmitted the message to the appropriate office in Washington, D.C. Instead of being acted upon and forwarded to the Army and Navy commanders on Hawaii, the message was suppressed. (And he was forbidden to discuss it for the remainder of his long Navy career.) To any others who might have picked up that transmission, it would have meant nothing.

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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by SwissMrs&Pitchfire »

"we should be doing things today instead of waiting until after the cleansing trial" why then are not more members engaged in this, and why are stake presidents and bishops not promoting such actions?
Right now the only thing that can be done is to study and know intimately the principles and operations of our heavenly standard/s. And that is occurring. I know that is frustrating for you, but the Lord allows it to be so until we are fully ripe in iniquity. Certainly destruction is something we have as a whole already earned (see quotes about how we are as bad or worse than the days of Noah or Jews who crucified Christ etc...), but the Lord in wisdom waits until it is time. Why do the prophets entertain their enemies now? Why do they wait to fight them? Are they waiting for us? Are they waiting for the Lord? Or are they just waiting in wisdom for the time to be right as decided by the use and misuse of agency of man?

Should we form Zion today and govern it by a separate standard then the laws in the land where it resides? In Joseph Smith's day the answer for a time was yes, and then no. As far as I know it is still no.

Why? Because it wouldn't work?

Why? I don't know but I can speculate that we aren't yet prepared (not humble enough, not faithful enough etc...), I can also speculate that the world wouldn't yet allow it and we'd all die martyrs and frustrate the purposes of Adam-Ondi-Ahman and Zion by the loss.

What have we been commanded to do? Have we been commanded to overthrow the Gadianton Secret Combinations of our day?

Personally I think we are still in school and not yet prepared to do the work. We need to graduate first.

lundbaek
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by lundbaek »

I believe that commandment in Ether 8: to "awake to a sense of your awful situation , because of this secret combination which shall be among you" and to "suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain.." still apply to us today. President Packer's article in the August 2010 Ensign magazine should serve to remind us of that rresponsibility. And D&C 98 tells us that "the saints are to befriend the constitutional law of the land." I think that how we go about complying with these commandments is largely between us individually and the Lord, but I think we at least need to be trying to find out what we each can do. And that certainly includes "to study and know intimately the principles and operations of our heavenly standard/s."

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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by SwissMrs&Pitchfire »

I agree, but I think that not letting them get above you is entirely a personal matter now as they have already completely attained the sole management of our government. It wasn't always so, but it is so now.

lundbaek
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by lundbaek »

I like to think I am helping to prevent the LDGs from getting any further above us. Or at least slowing it down. And I do see some wins for our side. Just no where near enough. And in the course of the battle others get their eyes opened and occasionally the odd person jumps in with us. In that regard I think our efforts are well spent.

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dennis
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by dennis »

"If you will that I give unto you a place in the celestial world, you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you" (D&C 78:7).

Then he commands both the Church and its members "to prepare and organize" their temporal affairs according to the law of his nize" their temporal affairs according to the law of his gospel, "that through my providence," saith the Lord, "notwithstanding the tribulation which shall descend upon you, that the church may stand independent above all other Creatures beneath the celestial world;
The Church, which administers the gospel, and the Saints who have received the gospel, must be independent of all the powers of earth, as they work out their salvation--temporally and spiritually--with fear and trembling before the Lord!

As the Saints of the Most High we shall strive to "stand independent above all other creatures beneath the celestial world"
Relying always on the Lord, we must become independent of the world. We must be self-reliant. Using the agency God has given us, we must work out our own economic and temporal problems
We must maintain our own health, sow our own gardens, store our own food, educate and train ourselves to handle the daily affairs of life.
It is the aim of the Church to help the Saints to care for themselves and, where need be, to make food and clothing and other necessities available. lest the Saints turn to the doles and evils of Babylon. To help care for the poor among them the Church must operate farms, grow vineyards, run dairies, manage factories, and ten thousand other things--all in such a way as to be independent of the powers of evil in the world.

We do not know when the calamities and troubles of the last days will fall upon any of us as individuals or upon bodies of the Saints. The Lord deliberately withholds from us the day and hour of his coming and of the tribulations which shall precede it--all as part of the testing and probationary experiences of mortality. He simply tells us to watch and be ready.
A commandmend I give unto you, to prepare and organize your selves by a bond or everlasting covenant. . behold this is the preparation wherewith I prepare you

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AussieOi
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by AussieOi »

soem good points in these last few posts
+1 to them

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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Like »

Harry believes in the Constitution and is trying to keep B.O. in check :lol:


buffalo_girl
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by buffalo_girl »

Harry Reid is trying to keep BO in check? What's he talking about?

He can't keep his own BS in check!

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Harry believes in the Constitution and is trying to keep B.O. in check
:lol:

I'm disappointed! I was expecting him to pull out a stick of deodorant or something. :lol:

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Moss Man
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Moss Man »

dennis wrote:"If you will that I give unto you a place in the celestial world, you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you" (D&C 78:7).

Then he commands both the Church and its members "to prepare and organize" their temporal affairs according to the law of his nize" their temporal affairs according to the law of his gospel, "that through my providence," saith the Lord, "notwithstanding the tribulation which shall descend upon you, that the church may stand independent above all other Creatures beneath the celestial world;
The Church, which administers the gospel, and the Saints who have received the gospel, must be independent of all the powers of earth, as they work out their salvation--temporally and spiritually--with fear and trembling before the Lord!

As the Saints of the Most High we shall strive to "stand independent above all other creatures beneath the celestial world"
Relying always on the Lord, we must become independent of the world. We must be self-reliant. Using the agency God has given us, we must work out our own economic and temporal problems
We must maintain our own health, sow our own gardens, store our own food, educate and train ourselves to handle the daily affairs of life.
It is the aim of the Church to help the Saints to care for themselves and, where need be, to make food and clothing and other necessities available. lest the Saints turn to the doles and evils of Babylon. To help care for the poor among them the Church must operate farms, grow vineyards, run dairies, manage factories, and ten thousand other things--all in such a way as to be independent of the powers of evil in the world.

We do not know when the calamities and troubles of the last days will fall upon any of us as individuals or upon bodies of the Saints. The Lord deliberately withholds from us the day and hour of his coming and of the tribulations which shall precede it--all as part of the testing and probationary experiences of mortality. He simply tells us to watch and be ready.
A commandmend I give unto you,prepare and organize your selves by a bond or everlasting covenant. . behold this is the preparation wherewith I prepare you
How can we truly be independent above every creature when we must rely on fiat currency to conduct our affairs? Even if we pay off all of our debts with FRNs we shift the debt onto someone else. I suppose if we have a financial collapse we could still make use of the existing infrastructure (vineyards, dairies, etc.) but how will we get our inputs (replacement parts, seed, etc.)?

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Moss Man
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Moss Man »

lundbaek wrote:We ignored counsel in the 60's and 70's that could have reversed the "awful situation" and restored the principles of the original Constituiton to our government. For the Church to resume that counsel now would probably do more harm than good. But the counsel is there, just not nearly as obvious, unless one is attuned to it.

The thought of being attuned to it reminds me of an incident I checked out several years ago that demonstrates the importance of being in tune. As stated in an affidavit written years later and showed me by his wife, on 4 December 1941 senior USN radio operator Ralph Briggs was monitoring Japanese radio broadcasts and listening for certain specific messages. One of those messages was "East wind, rain". Apparently, he was one of a very few Americans who knew what that message would mean: war with the United States. He transmitted the message to the appropriate office in Washington, D.C. Instead of being acted upon and forwarded to the Army and Navy commanders on Hawaii, the message was suppressed. (And he was forbidden to discuss it for the remainder of his long Navy career.) To any others who might have picked up that transmission, it would have meant nothing.
What about those of us who joined the Church in the late 90s? Am I supposed to ignore what went on in the 60s and 70s as just a history lesson? Joseph Smith was told that the Church was condemned for not reading the Book of Mormon and Ezra Taft Benson said we were still under that condemnation (ove 100 years later). Can the same argument be made that we are still under commandment to restore Constitutional principles to our government?

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Gideon
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Gideon »

There is a course being taught nationwide, whose goal is to create a new generation of American Founders, people who think like our Founding Fathers and know what what they knew. I have started to take this course, and I am very satisfied with the results so far.
More info can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBehCRAWJCA
http://www.monticellocollege.org/founda ... f-liberty/

President Benson stated that the Constitution would not be saved in Washington. If we are going to be involved in saving it, we need to learn it on our own. We don't need a church program, or any advice from priesthood leaders. We can be anxiously engaged in a good cause and bring to pass much good.

As the Lord said:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, even as you desire of me so it shall be unto you; and if you desire, you shall be the means of doing much good in this generation.
(D&C 6:8)

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dennis
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by dennis »

We start producing what we need. One seed , one heart , one mind at a time. direction is more important than speed. Some things I am doing . Repenting. Changing my thinking. Especially in terms of cooperating. Moss Man you know about plants. you could share novel ways to produce food. Mummys Idea about growing a winter garden influenced me. Now I have Brocolli, Brussel sprouts, onions, water cress, aloe vera, growing, and several seeds sprouting, and a perpetual project saving all seeds. To help get the Idea across We made a sign for the fridg. Please Please Please Save All SEEDS. tHE LARGEST foods products company in the world is a coop in India. Others are doing it. We Can also.

Awake & Arise
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Awake & Arise »

Does anyone here believe there is a humanly possible way to save the constitution, our freedoms, anything good?

I don't.

It will happen as all heavenly things do. We will struggle. We will do our best. We will face eminent failure and death because we are just not strong enough as human beings. And when it seems like nothing can save us, when the devil and all his forces are laughing above us, the pit is dug, and we are at the very edge with showers of dirt from our shoes falling in, the Lord will step in and do the rest. It is a test of faith, as is everything else. We must have enough faith that our noses can be touching a wall and the Lord says, "Take a step," and we take a step. The most important thing is to keep fighting and keep up the faith even when we see there is no way out.

Most church members are not guilty of neglecting the constitution. Most are new converts or young people who were not taught constitutional principles at the feet of their parents. Yet many of those ignorant ones are doing their best to follow the Spirit and as a result they are starting to realize things aren't quite right. Have faith in them. They will win in the end.

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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Like »

Awake & Arise wrote:Does anyone here believe there is a humanly possible way to save the constitution, our freedoms, anything good?

I don't.
I agree. How do we stop a beast like the Fed?



Check out the Feds war on Christmas


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Darren
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Darren »

Awake & Arise wrote:Does anyone here believe there is a humanly possible way to save the constitution, our freedoms, anything good?
Before the existence of the United States Constitution there is the continuing goodness (D&C 86:8-11) of the tribes of Israel way of incorporating a community under the Church and Kingdom of God. Incorporating communities (of businesses working together by law), is how we save the constitution, which is the culture of the United States Constitution.

We, as a continuation of that culture of incorporating communities under the Church and Kingdom of God, have, from time immemorial, legal standing in the world, that we are not standing sure upon, and can certainly start right and go right, granted we operate upon precise knowledge of how to do so. Our country’s crime today is a forgetting of our original constitution, and because of that forgetting, in walks the Empire and its stooges to run our lives.

Saving the constitution is the act of saving the Constitution. And we will save this much older constitution when we begin to operate our lives, including our business and economic lives by that original constitution. Remember Cleon Skousen's Freeman Institute? What was the Freeman Institute trying to do for our people, as directed by President David O. McKay?

The word constitution is a catholic word. Incorporation is also a catholic word.

Law is a gospel word. Oath, writing, work and by-laws are gospel words.

Thinking about our part of the work and glory of mankind, we take an oath, write it down, with by-laws to keep us living by law, then we have the basis of the original contract between the lost tribes of Israel and Jesus Christ, as he set up that original contract among them in the North.

Yes we can save the Constitution! How? "Few there be that find it" (how to do it), because of "gross darkness."

Will we save the Constitution? That is the question. And to do so by overcoming our brainwashing and ignorance of how to do it?

God Bless,
Darren

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Rensai
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Rensai »

"Let us suppose that it is too late to save freedom. It is still accounted unto us for righteousness' sake to stand and fight." - Ezra Taft Benson

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Rensai wrote:
"Let us suppose that it is too late to save freedom. It is still accounted unto us for righteousness' sake to stand and fight." - Ezra Taft Benson

Wonderful quote! Let us not get discouraged!

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