We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29, 45,

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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby DrJones » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:52 pm

Thanks, Mark.

Mummy -- you wrote:
....the whore being the Holy Roman Empire that turned, twisted, and destroyed the church established by the Savior including the son of perdition, Justinian, who did away with the Daily Sacrifice in 530 AD.


Nope, the whore can't be the Holy Roman Empire, for the Lord clarifies for us in D&C 29:
21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for eabominations shall not reign.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby NoGreaterLove » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:01 pm

DrJones wrote:Thanks, Mark.

Mummy -- you wrote:
....the whore being the Holy Roman Empire that turned, twisted, and destroyed the church established by the Savior including the son of perdition, Justinian, who did away with the Daily Sacrifice in 530 AD.


Nope, the whore can't be the Holy Roman Empire, for the Lord clarifies for us in D&C 29:
21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for eabominations shall not reign.


I caught that this morning too. IMO the whore is not a nation, but the combinations that support the persecution of Christ's church. This would include each and every entity that involves itself in that pursuit, such as the U.S. banking institutions, U.N., etc.. The interesting thing is that the Whore is destroyed by the ten kingdoms and the beast. However, the beast and ten kingdoms get destroyed later as they surround Jerusalem. So maybe the beast is Russia??
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby bobhenstra » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:08 pm

Through my years I have studied these references so much I can almost quote them all verbatim. One very important thing I have discovered; as I've become more and better prepared these coming events have taken on less importance in my life. I know they're coming, I know the earthquake is coming, and I know what to watch for. I also know whats on the other side of the veil and who's there waiting for me.

Proper preparation is and always has been the key, and preparation has always included the understanding of the whys and reasons of the coming events, and also recognizing them as they approach and arrive. And as with any other Gospel subject, proper understanding is important, however preparation is the key, and is the "witness" that we do understand.

I have no fear of the coming events, let 'er rip! I now have three pickup loads of seasoned sweet cherry wood next to my coal pile (it pays to live among fruit farmers). Some of it will need to be split, and a log splitter is one of the few items I need to complete my preparations.

But then there's always that neighborhood kid that needs a few coins for the prom, I'll just pay him to split my logs! Something I learned many years ago. If you put the log you intend to split in the center of an old tire, you can split the log into as many pieces as you wish without having to stoop down and pick up every piece. And if you happen to miss the log, the tire will absorb the blow, making the splitting process safer, and the wood will warm you twice!

Bob
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby pritchet1 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:27 pm

...world-winds that are coming fast and furious.


They really will become that, won't they? World-winds.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby DrJones » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:40 pm

Thanks, Bob -- insightful as always.

NGL -- it appears we're getting on the same page on this view of the future:

I caught that this morning too. IMO the whore is not a nation, but the combinations that support the persecution of Christ's church. This would include each and every entity that involves itself in that pursuit, such as the U.S. banking institutions, U.N., etc.. The interesting thing is that the Whore is destroyed by the ten kingdoms and the beast. However, the beast and ten kingdoms get destroyed later as they surround Jerusalem. So maybe the beast is Russia??


If you look back, you'll notice that I've suggested that the red Beast is Russia, China, and associated countries. Indeed, who else has the WMD to wipe out the principal city of Babylon in ONE HOUR (as John repeatedly said)?

QUESTION for all: What is in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon? who is its author?
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby pritchet1 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:52 pm

What is in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon? who is its author?


2/3rds of the Book of Mormon were sealed for future reading and mediation.If there were many writers of the portion of the Book of Mormon that was translated, I suspect there are quite a few we haven't heard of yet in the portion that remains sealed until we absorb what has already been given to us.

WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF WE WERE CONSIDERED "RIPENED" enough to be worthy of being allowed to have the rest translated so we can read what are within those sacred pages too?

What we have been given so far, is witness enough of Jesus the Christ, for our salvation.

Faith isn't enough. Faith in Christ is :idea:
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby truthseeker » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:14 pm

QUESTION for all: What is in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon? who is its author?


Well, I haven't seen it personally :) - but it seems the book of Ether gives us some information about this:


4 Behold, I have written upon these plates the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.
5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.
6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.


So based on this I would answer as follows:

What is in it: " the very things which the brother of Jared saw" Ether 3:23 tells us a bit more about this: "he showed unto the brother of Jared all the inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be; and he withheld them not from his sight, even unto the ends of the earth. " It sounds to me like a full history of the earth will be had. Other scriptures say all hidden things will be made manifest. Perhaps this is one of the ways that will happen.
Author: Jesus Christ (written and sealed up by Mormon as revealed to the brother of Jared)
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby Mummy » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:58 pm

DrJones wrote:Thanks, Mark.

Mummy -- you wrote:
....the whore being the Holy Roman Empire that turned, twisted, and destroyed the church established by the Savior including the son of perdition, Justinian, who did away with the Daily Sacrifice in 530 AD.


Nope, the whore can't be the Holy Roman Empire, for the Lord clarifies for us in D&C 29:
21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for eabominations shall not reign.


Might that not refer to the burning by fire after the little season at the end of the millennium?
If you really want to change things, you first need to come to terms with just how corrupt and evil the current system is.

An incomplete understanding of the situation will lead to half baked solutions that accomplish nothing!

See Jason!
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby Mummy » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:00 pm

bobhenstra wrote:Something I learned many years ago. If you put the log you intend to split in the center of an old tire, you can split the log into as many pieces as you wish without having to stoop down and pick up every piece. And if you happen to miss the log, the tire will absorb the blow, making the splitting process safer, and the wood will warm you twice!

Bob


My hero and the king of crafty tricks!
If you really want to change things, you first need to come to terms with just how corrupt and evil the current system is.

An incomplete understanding of the situation will lead to half baked solutions that accomplish nothing!

See Jason!
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby Mummy » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:05 pm

DrJones wrote:Thanks, Bob -- insightful as always.

NGL -- it appears we're getting on the same page on this view of the future:

I caught that this morning too. IMO the whore is not a nation, but the combinations that support the persecution of Christ's church. This would include each and every entity that involves itself in that pursuit, such as the U.S. banking institutions, U.N., etc.. The interesting thing is that the Whore is destroyed by the ten kingdoms and the beast. However, the beast and ten kingdoms get destroyed later as they surround Jerusalem. So maybe the beast is Russia??


If you look back, you'll notice that I've suggested that the red Beast is Russia, China, and associated countries. Indeed, who else has the WMD to wipe out the principal city of Babylon in ONE HOUR (as John repeatedly said)?

QUESTION for all: What is in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon? who is its author?


Of course is that literally 1 hour....or 1 hour in the sense of 1 day = a year (Ezekiel 4:6) which would be 15.2 days....or 1 hour in the 1 day equals 1000 years as Joseph Smith pointed out in which it would be 41.6 years???
If you really want to change things, you first need to come to terms with just how corrupt and evil the current system is.

An incomplete understanding of the situation will lead to half baked solutions that accomplish nothing!

See Jason!
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby haddomr » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:01 pm

I agree with Brother Jones on the whore being the international banking system. The whore also has member countries...maybe the G7. BTW...whore=harlot=mother of abominations=abominable church. The whore nations will fight amongst themselves.

1 Nephi 22:13 And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.

Also in:

1 Nephi 14: 15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

All we need is the wrath of God to set things off with this Whore. I thinks it is supposed to be burned and happen in one hour (I think that is in Revelations).
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby bobhenstra » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:13 pm

DrJones wrote:Thanks, Bob -- insightful as always.

NGL -- it appears we're getting on the same page on this view of the future:

I caught that this morning too. IMO the whore is not a nation, but the combinations that support the persecution of Christ's church. This would include each and every entity that involves itself in that pursuit, such as the U.S. banking institutions, U.N., etc.. The interesting thing is that the Whore is destroyed by the ten kingdoms and the beast. However, the beast and ten kingdoms get destroyed later as they surround Jerusalem. So maybe the beast is Russia??


If you look back, you'll notice that I've suggested that the red Beast is Russia, China, and associated countries. Indeed, who else has the WMD to wipe out the principal city of Babylon in ONE HOUR (as John repeatedly said)?

QUESTION for all: What is in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon? who is its author?


The history of the earth, and Christ is its author!

Bob
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby NoGreaterLove » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:00 am

haddomr wrote:I agree with Brother Jones on the whore being the international banking system. The whore also has member countries...maybe the G7. BTW...whore=harlot=mother of abominations=abominable church. The whore nations will fight amongst themselves.

1 Nephi 22:13 And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.

Also in:

1 Nephi 14: 15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

All we need is the wrath of God to set things off with this Whore. I thinks it is supposed to be burned and happen in one hour (I think that is in Revelations).


Wow that was awesome! I have never paid attention to that before. "the wrath of God is upon the mother of Harlots". Is not the U.S. the mother of the harlots?

but then is defines who the mother is:
"which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil,"

I can not help but think the U.S. and the mother are tied together tightly.

Then we read further that this event is what signals the beginning of the Gospel going to the rest of the tribes of Israel.

17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby NoGreaterLove » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:11 am

DrJones wrote:Thanks, Bob -- insightful as always.

NGL -- it appears we're getting on the same page on this view of the future:

I caught that this morning too. IMO the whore is not a nation, but the combinations that support the persecution of Christ's church. This would include each and every entity that involves itself in that pursuit, such as the U.S. banking institutions, U.N., etc.. The interesting thing is that the Whore is destroyed by the ten kingdoms and the beast. However, the beast and ten kingdoms get destroyed later as they surround Jerusalem. So maybe the beast is Russia??


If you look back, you'll notice that I've suggested that the red Beast is Russia, China, and associated countries. Indeed, who else has the WMD to wipe out the principal city of Babylon in ONE HOUR (as John repeatedly said)?

QUESTION for all: What is in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon? who is its author?


I was reading a statement by one of the apostles the other day that said the Beast was communism.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby lundbaek » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:07 am

I’m watching the new world order very carefully. I think it is the first beast mentioned in Revelation 13 and it will fulfill John’s prophecy in that it will gradually accumulate power to the point where it dominates the whole world. I see it sending American troops at a time into this part of the world or that part of the world to enforce peace whether the people want it or not, as well as to destroy America economically and militarily. It will not allow people to fight a war for their independence or for whatever purpose if they don’t agree to it. This new world order is becoming tremendously powerful. Beginning with Chapter 13 of Revelation, you have the beast rise up out of the sea. John says that it will set up a world dictatorship, and it will get to a peak of 3 ½ years, and then it will turn on the saints. I'm guessing that means turn on good people, and as a result of that it will be wiped out. John never told us how it’s wiped out. He just wrote that they who live by the sword die by the sword and the faith of the saints was vindicated.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby NoGreaterLove » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:26 am

#
1 Ne. 13: 7-8, 34
7 And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.
8 And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
• • •
34 And it came to pass that the angel of the Lord spake unto me, saying: Behold, saith the Lamb of God, after I have visited the remnant of the house of Israel—and this remnant of whom I speak is the seed of thy father—wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots, saith the Lamb—I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them, in mine own power, much of my gospel, which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb

We learn that the mother of harlots is the one who held back the plain and precious parts of the gospel. Who did this? Who took out those parts when translating the bible? And once we have answered that, we then know where the secret combinations come from.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby clarkkent14 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:27 am

NoGreaterLove wrote:
haddomr wrote:I agree with Brother Jones on the whore being the international banking system. The whore also has member countries...maybe the G7. BTW...whore=harlot=mother of abominations=abominable church. The whore nations will fight amongst themselves.

1 Nephi 22:13 And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.

Also in:

1 Nephi 14: 15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

All we need is the wrath of God to set things off with this Whore. I thinks it is supposed to be burned and happen in one hour (I think that is in Revelations).


Wow that was awesome! I have never paid attention to that before. "the wrath of God is upon the mother of Harlots". Is not the U.S. the mother of the harlots?

but then is defines who the mother is:
"which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil,"

I can not help but think the U.S. and the mother are tied together tightly.

Then we read further that this event is what signals the beginning of the Gospel going to the rest of the tribes of Israel.

17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
I've looked at the "Wrath of God" a bit... Denver has written a good bit about it too. How can you know what is the "Wrath of God?"

I think Nephi tells us through what happened to the Lamanites. 1 Nephi 13:11 "And it came to pass that the angel said unto me: Behold the wrath of God is upon the seed of thy brethren. ; 14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten."

Look at what happened to the Natives in North, Central, and South America. The plagues, the wars, being driven from their homes. It will return upon the Gentiles in the last days.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby NoGreaterLove » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:58 am

I would ask another question. Who took over the Roman Empire and basically ruled it? Why did our ancestors flee to America and establish the U.S.? So IMO the same entity has regained rule through secret combinations over the ten toes or ten kingdoms and also the eleven horn who is more stout then them all. So when the mother of harlots is destroyed, it is done by destroying the kingdoms or harlots she rules with the secret combinations.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby Original_Intent » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:26 am

New York is going to get nuked by Russia. Of course, I got that impression while reading "The Overton Window", not the scriptures, so maybe not inspired... :lol:
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby help » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:46 am

Original_Intent wrote:New York is going to get nuked by Russia. Of course, I got that impression while reading "The Overton Window", not the scriptures, so maybe not inspired... :lol:



ya, didn't john taylor have a vision about a sudden fire appeared and east wind blew it through the city (NY) that sounds like a nuke to me
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby InfoWarrior82 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:57 am

help wrote:
Original_Intent wrote:New York is going to get nuked by Russia. Of course, I got that impression while reading "The Overton Window", not the scriptures, so maybe not inspired... :lol:



ya, didn't john taylor have a vision about a sudden fire appeared and east wind blew it through the city (NY) that sounds like a nuke to me


Yes, I think it was that one city (Boston?) submerged, and NY burned. Maybe it was vice-versa. Does someone have the quote?
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby NoGreaterLove » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:34 pm

InfoWarrior82 wrote:
help wrote:
Original_Intent wrote:New York is going to get nuked by Russia. Of course, I got that impression while reading "The Overton Window", not the scriptures, so maybe not inspired... :lol:



ya, didn't john taylor have a vision about a sudden fire appeared and east wind blew it through the city (NY) that sounds like a nuke to me


Yes, I think it was that one city (Boston?) submerged, and NY burned. Maybe it was vice-versa. Does someone have the quote?

You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake; it was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea, at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not.’ President Young followed and said: ‘What Brother Woodruff has said is revelation and will be fulfilled.’” (In Lundwall, Temples of the Most High, pp. 97–98.)
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby InfoWarrior82 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:41 pm

NoGreaterLove wrote:
InfoWarrior82 wrote:
Yes, I think it was that one city (Boston?) submerged, and NY burned. Maybe it was vice-versa. Does someone have the quote?

You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake; it was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea, at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not.’ President Young followed and said: ‘What Brother Woodruff has said is revelation and will be fulfilled.’” (In Lundwall, Temples of the Most High, pp. 97–98.)


Thanks, NGL!
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby help » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:46 pm

A VISION GIVEN TO WILFORD WOODRUFF (Dec 16, 1877)

Wilford Woodruff Journals
June 15, 1878
Church Historian’s Office

In black is the part about NYC

(quoted by WW from the writings of John Taylor?)

I went to bed as usual at about 7:30PM. I had been read­ing a revela­tion in the French lan­guage. My mind was calm, more so than usual if possible, so I composed myself for sleep, but could not. I felt a strange feeling come over me and apparently be­came partially uncon­scious. Still I was not asleep, nor ex­actly awake, with dreary feeling. The first thing that I recognized was that I was in the tabernacle of Ogden, Utah. I was sit­ting in the back part of the build­ing for fear they would call on me to preach, which however they did, for after sing­ing the second time they called me to the stand.

I arose to speak and said that I did­n't know that I had anything es­pecially to say, ex­cept to bear my tes­timony of the Latter-day work, when all at once it seemed as if I was lifted out of myself and I said, "Yes, I have something to say and that is this: Some of my brethren have been ask­ing, "What is be­coming of us? What is the wind blowing?" I will answer you right here what is coming very shortly."

I was then in a dream, im­mediately in the city of Salt Lake, and wandering around in the streets and in all parts of the city, and on the doors of the houses I found badges of mourn­ing and I could not find a house but was in mourning. I passed my own house and found the same sign there, and I asked the ques­tion, "Is that me that is dead?" Someone gave me the an­swer, "No, you will get through it all."

It seemed strange to me that I saw no person in the streets in all my wan­dering around the coun­try. I seemed to be in their houses with the sick, but saw no funeral proces­sion, nor anything of the kind, but the city looking still and as though the people were praying. And it seemed that they had controlled the dis­ease, but what the dis­ease was I did not learn; it was not made known to me. I then looked over the country, north, east, south, and west, and the same mourning was in every land and in every place.

The next thing I knew I was just this side of Omaha. It seemed though I was above the earth, and look­ing down upon it. As I passed along upon my way east I saw the road full of people, mostly women, with just what they could carry in bundles on their backs, trav­eling to the moun­tains on foot. I won­dered how they would get through with such a small pack on their backs. It was re­markable to us[?] that there were so few men among them. It didn't seem to me as though the cars were run­ning, the rails looked rusty and the roads aban­doned; and I have no con­ception of how I traveled as I looked down upon the peo­ple.

I continued east by the way of Omaha and Council Bluffs, which were full of disease. There were women every­where. The state of Illinois and Mis­souri were in a tumult, men killing one an­other, women joining the fight­ing, fam­ily against family in the most horrid manner.

I imagined next that I was in Wash­ington and I found desola­tion there. The White House was empty and the Halls of Congress the same, and everything in ru­ins. The people seemed to have left the city and left it to take care of itself.

I was in Baltimore. In the square where the Monument of 1812 stands in front of the Char­les Hotel. I saw dead piled up so as to fill the street square. I saw mothers cutting the throats of their own children for their blood. I saw them suck it from their throats to quench their own thirst and then lie down and die. The water of Che­sapeake Bay was stagnant, and the stench arising from it on ac­count of their throw­ing their bod­ies into it so terrible, that the very smell carried death with it. I saw no man ex­cept they were dead or dying in the streets and very few women. Those I saw were crazy and in an ugly condi­tion. Everywhere I went I beheld the same sights all over the city; it was terrible be­yond description to look upon.

I thought this must be the end; but no, I was seemingly in an instant in the city of Philadel­phia. There eve­rything was still. No living soul was there to greet me. It seemed the whole city was with­out any inhabi­tants. In the south of Chestnut Street and in fact everywhere I went, the putrefaction of the dead caused such a stench that it was impos­sible for any living thing to breathe, nor did I see any living thing in the city.

Next I found myself in Broadway, in the city of New York, and there it seemed the people had done the best they could to overcome the disease, but in wandering down Broad­way I saw the bodies of beautiful women lying, some dead and oth­ers in a dy­ing condition, on the sidewalks. I saw men come out of cellars and ravish the per­sons of some that were yet alive and then kill them and rob their bodies of all the valu­ables they had upon them. Then before they could get back to the cellar they would roll over a time or two and die in ag­ony. In some of the back streets I saw them kill some of their own offspring and eat their raw flesh, and in a few minutes die them­selves. Every­where I went I saw the same scene of horror and de­struction and death and rap­ine.

No car­riages, buggies, or cars were running; but death and de­struc­tion were every­where. Then I saw fire start and just at that moment a mighty East wind sprang up and car­ried the flames over the city and it burned until there was not a sin­gle building left standing there, even down to the waters edge. Wharves and shipping all seemed to burn and follow in common destruction where the "great city" was a short time ago. The stench from the bodies that were burn­ing was so great that it was carried a long dis­tance cross the Hudson Bay and carried death and destruction wherever it pene­trated. I cannot paint in words the horror that seemed to compass me about; it was beyond description of man.

I sup­posed this was the end; but it was not. I was given to understand the same horror was being en­acted all over the coun­try, east, west, north, and south. Few were left alive, still there were some.

Immediately after I seemed to be standing on the left bank of the Mis­souri River, opposite e the City of In­de­pendence, but there was no city. I saw the whole state of Missouri and Illi­nois and all of Iowa, a complete desert with no living being there. A short dis­tance from the river how­ever, I saw twelve men dressed in temple robes, stand­ing in a square or nearly so (and I under­stood it repre­sented the Twelve Gates of the New Jerusa­lem.) Their hands were uplifted in consecration of the ground and lay­ing the corner stone of the tem­ple. I saw myraids of an­gels hovering over them, and saw also an immense pil­lar of clouds over them and heard the angels singing the most heav­enly music. The words were "Now is estab­lished the King­dom of God and his Christ, which shall never more be thrown down."

I saw people com­ing from the river and from the desert places a long way off to help build the temple and it seemed that hosts of an­gels all helped to get material to build with and I saw some of them who wore temple clothes come and build the tem­ple and the city, and all the time I saw the great pillar of clouds hovering over the place.

Instantly, however, I found my­self again in the taber­nacle at Ogden. And yet, I could still see the building go on and I got quite animated in call­ing on the people in the tabernacle to listen to the beautiful music, for the an­gels were singing the same music I had heard be­fore. "Now is estab­lished the King­dom of God and his Christ, which shall never more be thrown down."

At this I seemed to stagger back from the pulpit and Brother Francis D. Richards and some others caught my arm and prevented me from falling. Then I fin­ished so abruptly. Still even then I had not fainted, but was simply ex­hausted.

They I rolled over in bed and awoke just as the city clock was strik­ing twelve.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby Mummy » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:09 pm

NoGreaterLove wrote:I would ask another question. Who took over the Roman Empire and basically ruled it? Why did our ancestors flee to America and establish the U.S.? So IMO the same entity has regained rule through secret combinations over the ten toes or ten kingdoms and also the eleven horn who is more stout then them all. So when the mother of harlots is destroyed, it is done by destroying the kingdoms or harlots she rules with the secret combinations.


Eleven would be US!
If you really want to change things, you first need to come to terms with just how corrupt and evil the current system is.

An incomplete understanding of the situation will lead to half baked solutions that accomplish nothing!

See Jason!
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby p51-mustang » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:19 pm

Original_Intent wrote:New York is going to get nuked by Russia. Of course, I got that impression while reading "The Overton Window", not the scriptures, so maybe not inspired... :lol:


They said on local talk radio today that the treasury is offering our lands as collateral to China for them lending us money. When the economy collapses, the Chinese will do what good little ganstas do. They will come over here and start breaking kneecaps! All these future troubles stem from pride and one manifestation of pride is living beyond ones means. Who'd a thunk that living beyond ones means would lead to war?
"Shiz" Happened. The Book of Mormon is true!
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby p51-mustang » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:28 pm

haddomr wrote:I agree with Brother Jones on the whore being the international banking system. The whore also has member countries...maybe the G7. BTW...whore=harlot=mother of abominations=abominable church. The whore nations will fight amongst themselves.

1 Nephi 22:13 And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.

Also in:

1 Nephi 14: 15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

All we need is the wrath of God to set things off with this Whore. I thinks it is supposed to be burned and happen in one hour (I think that is in Revelations).


If you think about it, verse 16 has been partially fullfilled with WWI and WWII (wars fought mainly by gentile nations of europe and america). Is the BOM true or what? Of course these types of wars will repeat in the future.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby DrJones » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:22 am

Interesting comments...
This one struck a particular cord:

clarkkent14 wrote:[

Look at what happened to the Natives in North, Central, and South America. The plagues, the wars, being driven from their homes. It will return upon the Gentiles in the last days.


Nephi says that the pit dug by the evil schemers -- they will fall into it.

Further prophecies in 3 Nephi 16 and 21 by the resurrected Jesus Christ himself speak of the the remnant of Israel going through the Gentiles like a lion... and the end of the times of the Gentiles.

I perceive then, that as the Gentiles fall into the pit they dug for others, the remnant of Jacob will arise (and build the New Jerusalem). IMO, this remnant will include those temple-recommend bearing saints who have Lehite blood...
Last edited by DrJones on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby LukeAir2008 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:49 am

The whore is not the Roman Empire but it is Roman... :shock:

D&C 29:91 tells us who the whore of all the earth is. It would appear that this particular organization has far more power and influence over the world than we can ever imagine.

And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth...(D&C 29:91)

And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. (1 Nephi 13:5)

And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell (1 Nephi 14:3) :?
The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.
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Re: We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,

Postby cayenne » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:28 am

DrJones wrote:I have re-read my post #1 and some of the other posts -- thanks for all the input! It has been fun and instructive. A very brief summary follows.

There are three principal entities that John speaks of in Revelation, active in the last days. These are:

1. The whore Babylon, who seeks power over the earth by merchandising, money/debt, addictive drugs (in the golden goblet), etc. Worshipped by seven principal kings (nations), possibly G7. John is concerned that Saints of the last-days will become enamored by the whore Babylon, and he repeatedly warns, "Come out of Babylon... that ye receive not of her plagues."

REV. 18: 1 I saw another angel come down from heaven...
[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit...
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
[4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


The whore Babylon IMO corresponds with the Gadiantons of the Book of Mormon, who seek "sole management of the government" (Helaman 6:38-39) while remaining hidden to most of the people (Hel. 7-10, etc).

2. The red Beast with seven heads (principal nations) and ten horns (other nations adding their power). Ridden and controlled for a long time by Babylon, but turns on the whore and inflicts a fatal blow on her principal city, destroying it with great fire and smoke "in one hour," such that the merchants fear to even come near the city anymore. (Rev. 18 ) This yet-future attack appears nuclear from John's description, but could be biological ("overflowing scourge") or even economic, or a combination. The whore Babylon has "Mystery" written on her forehead (Rev 17:5) but shall be exposed by the red-Beast nations (Rev 17:16). IMO, this will include disclosure of the hidden acts of the whore Babylon (9/11? bank and corporate bailouts- to whom?) as she has sought world domination.

3. The good woman, whom Pres. Benson has identified as the Church. After the "wicked fight the wicked", vying for world power and effectively destroying each other (Rev. 18-20), the good woman emerges victorious in the building of the invincible New Jerusalem. There will be a final great battle.
Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
The Savior comes to the New Jerusalem to reign in peace for a millenium, having cleansed the earth.

REV 21: [2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.




[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.




we know The whore and Babylon are much bigger than the USA

Rev 17:6 "I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement."....so the woman whore has been around a lot longer than our little nation

Rev 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.".....again much older than UsA

Book of Mormon talks about who the whore is...great abominable church...the beast breaks the whore after using her,and then God breaks the beast just like Revelations says below

Rev 17:16,17

"And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. "

Rev 18 shows the whore, and the beast fall, as chapter 19 the saints rejoice!
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