Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

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Original_Intent
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by Original_Intent »

Rincon wrote:
tribrac wrote:
pjbrownie wrote:This is dividing the church.
Fixed



Fixed how?
Changed it from "This is going to divide the church to this is dividing the church. :wink:

Rincon
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by Rincon »

Changed it from "This is going to divide the church to this is dividing the church. :wink:[/quote]



Maybe so, one of my good friends already left the Church over it, and he is not a homosexual. I wonder if the Prophet will ever take a stand I cannot live with. I hope not.

pritchet1
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by pritchet1 »

Those who have left the church because of this issue do so, due to sexual deviancy and peer pressure (pun intended) or desire to avoid embarrassment from those living in the great and spacious building.

Sodomy is still not acceptable to the Lord.

ndjili
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by ndjili »

pritchet1 wrote:
I'm sure there will be more discussed in General Conference on this particular topic.



No way! They wont have time with all the talks on going to the tent cities and how your years supply (not Temple recommend) will be your ticket in.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I havent had a chance to watch the Relief Society conference yet...but have it recorded and plan to.

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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by Like »

ndjili wrote:I havent had a chance to watch the Relief Society conference yet...but have it recorded and plan to.
I watched it at home with my wife. The messages were all good and President Monson cracked me up a little with one of his stories. My favorite moment was when Sister Allred was speaking, at one point you could see President Uchtdorf in the darkness just smiling this huge smile......I loved it!

tribrac
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by tribrac »

Maybe this is alittle off topic but I've never considered members leaving the church as a threat to the church. They may have a few minutes in the sun but it usually comes to naught.

It is those who stand in the rank and file and oppose the Church position, or advocate their own agenda who are wolves in sheep clothing.

And that could be those who preach Prop 8 Pride or those who advocate Awaken Fear.

natasha
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Post by natasha »

Absolutely, Tribrac.....good post!

Rincon
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by Rincon »

tribrac wrote:Maybe this is alittle off topic but I've never considered members leaving the church as a threat to the church. They may have a few minutes in the sun but it usually comes to naught.

It is those who stand in the rank and file and oppose the Church position, or advocate their own agenda who are wolves in sheep clothing.

And that could be those who preach Prop 8 Pride or those who advocate Awaken Fear.

Forgive my ignorance, I don't fully understand what "Prop 8 Pride" is. I know I am a little slow, please be patient.

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NoGreaterLove
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

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I have to remind myself that Satan has planted tares among the wheat. So when we see members speaking against the church or becoming angry at its teachings and position, I realize it is just time for those tares to separate themselves from the wheat so they can be burned.
It is interesting that God does not separate them, they separate themselves.

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skmo
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by skmo »

Fiannan wrote:One of the young adult women in Sunday Scchool got upset with my wife when my wife pointed out that in today's society gays actually have days of "pride" -- this was in reference to a scripture in Isaiah that said that many boast of their sins openly. The woman said we have no right to get down on gays. My wife pointed out that she does not get down on homosexual people but it is our duty to proclaim what is, and what isn't, right in God's eyes.
If I may ask, what scripture in Isaiah are you referencing?

KMCopeland
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

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We once practiced a form of marriage that horrified the rest of the country indeed, the rest of the civilized world. They were absolutely sure that our practice, and promotion, of polygamy was going to lead to the utter destruction of the moral fiber of America. They came after us hammer and tongs. Almost wiped us out over it. You'd think, if we had to take an official Church position on this, that we would have been on the side of the group agitating for the right to be a part of non-traditional marriage -- since that's where we were not very long ago. But no. Now we're the ones with the hammers and the tongs. I'm ashamed and horrified by the money, time, and effort that the Church establishment, from the very top in Salt Lake City down to local bishops in California, lavished on on passing Prop 8.

samizdat
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

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KMCopeland wrote:We once practiced a form of marriage that horrified the rest of the country indeed, the rest of the civilized world. They were absolutely sure that our practice, and promotion, of polygamy was going to lead to the utter destruction of the moral fiber of America. They came after us hammer and tongs. Almost wiped us out over it. You'd think, if we had to take an official Church position on this, that we would have been on the side of the group agitating for the right to be a part of non-traditional marriage -- since that's where we were not very long ago. But no. Now we're the ones with the hammers and the tongs. I'm ashamed and horrified by the money, time, and effort that the Church establishment, from the very top in Salt Lake City down to local bishops in California, lavished on on passing Prop 8.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel. And part of the gospel is precisely where the FAMILY is concerned.

Read Elder Holland's talk in the last GC. If love is to be our watchword, then we must forsake trangression, OR ANY ADVOCACY FOR IT IN OTHERS.

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BroJones
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

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KMCopeland:
I'm ashamed and horrified by the money, time, and effort that the Church establishment, from the very top in Salt Lake City down to local bishops in California, lavished on on passing Prop 8.
"Ashamed and horrified" - by the "Church establishment" and "local bishops"?

I find that I disagree with you once again, KMC.

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Army Of Truth
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

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I'm proud that our Church stood up for Marriage and the true definition of marriage as it always has been since the beginning, so as not to change the meaning of it as well as give "extra" rights to people because of their sin.

Bill
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by Bill »

No really....it would NOT be that expensive. One side of California is ocean after all. And frankly you could put the fence a hundred miles north of San Fran and then along the entire eastern border and shazam; California would be fenced off from the real world!!!

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BroJones
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by BroJones »

Bill wrote:No really....it would NOT be that expensive. One side of California is ocean after all. And frankly you could put the fence a hundred miles north of San Fran and then along the entire eastern border and shazam; California would be fenced off from the real world!!!
LOL - and send the pouring-in immigrants there?
Kind of like a big "tent city"
j/k

KMCopeland
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by KMCopeland »

samizdat wrote:
KMCopeland wrote:We once practiced a form of marriage that horrified the rest of the country indeed, the rest of the civilized world. They were absolutely sure that our practice, and promotion, of polygamy was going to lead to the utter destruction of the moral fiber of America. They came after us hammer and tongs. Almost wiped us out over it. You'd think, if we had to take an official Church position on this, that we would have been on the side of the group agitating for the right to be a part of non-traditional marriage -- since that's where we were not very long ago. But no. Now we're the ones with the hammers and the tongs. I'm ashamed and horrified by the money, time, and effort that the Church establishment, from the very top in Salt Lake City down to local bishops in California, lavished on on passing Prop 8.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel. And part of the gospel is precisely where the FAMILY is concerned.
I didn't say I was ashamed of the Gospel.
samizdat wrote:Read Elder Holland's talk in the last GC. If love is to be our watchword, then we must forsake trangression, OR ANY ADVOCACY FOR IT IN OTHERS.
The Church's behavior about Prop 8 wasn't advocacy for anything except advocacy for a law to prevent people from marrying in a way the Church disapproves of. It was us doing to someone else what was done to us over polygamy. It wasn't the Church's finest moment.

lundbaek
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by lundbaek »

The Church's action about Prop 8 and its counterpart in Arizona was advocacy for a law to prevent people from marrying in a way the Lord disapproves of.

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pjbrownie
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

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The gay marriage fight I'm finding is bread and circus to distract us from other, more important issues. We dabble in the semantics of a word " marriage" while the nation is busy setting up a Stasi state monitoring totalitarian system. Thank goodness for pride parades and Mormons Building Bridges where we can feel good about standing for the "marginalized", but rich and predominantly white, homosexuals that wish for marriage. I'm so grateful for John Dehlin and his posse that spend all of their intellectual time and effort on defending gay Mormons and women who want ordination while Rome burns. What a loss! I support the government getting out of the marriage business. The End. If Utah would just rename it's marriage ceremony to a civil contract and other states followed suit, this issue would be over before the Day of 47 Parade finished up on Thursday.

Israel needs to "get thee to thy tents" and prepare for the Coming of the Lord. Babylon is about to fall.

lundbaek
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by lundbaek »

I concur with PJ that the gay marriage fight does distract us from other, more important issues. Just like Monicagate distracted most Americans from Chinagate, for which Clinton should have been impeached and tried. While many concern themselves about what people afflicted with SSA do with each other, our wealth and liberties are being torn away from us in various ways.

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Thinker
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by Thinker »

Lundbaek,
Is it just a distraction, or in the big scheme of things, is the family the main target to bring people down?

I honestly didn't care too much about this whole homosexual movement, UNTIL it began hurting me and others I love.

There are several reasons to FIGHT the good fight in defending traditional marriage, defined as between a man and a woman...
1. Children need both a mother and father not only to EXIST, but also to thrive best, in being raised by both.

2. Statistically, homosexual behavior proves to be a liability more than an asset. Marriage, is primarily for the benefit of society - future society - by legally supporting the union by which ALL children come - a man and a woman. According to the US CDC, those who engage in homosexual behavior, have 40 TIMES the STDs of heterosexuals and have many more cases of AIDs/HIV and mental illness. It was diagnosed as a disorder, before the homosexual lobbyists harassed the APA. Who, in their right mind would ever legally support behavior statistically known to be so harmful?

3. As a people, most of us have already voted to support marriage between a man and a woman, yet those pushing the homosexual agenda are stampeding over that democratic process. Many rights have already been denied in favor of "rights" based on being legally supported in sexual substitutes (homosexual practices).


As mentioned by others, the topic of this thread seems to be misleading, and misinterpreting empathy for support.
The person who revived this thread obviously is attempting (again) to convince any apathetic readers to follow the homosexual herd mentality, even when it goes against the axiomatic truth by which each of us came to exist.

Fiannan
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by Fiannan »

The premise behind Prop 8 may have not been so good in the first place. The law, while trying to define marriage between a man and a woman placed in the statues a law thus saying polygamy is also illegal. I do support traditional marriage but there is the scripture about being unequally yoked.

The Church took the only stand available as it did not originally write the proposal. I am not ashamed that the Church poured money into the effort as well as other activities to get it passed though.

lundbaek
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by lundbaek »

That's a good question, Thinker, and I have to think about it a bit. I do not consider it at distraction, certainly not a deliberate distraction, as I think Monicagate was. I think the best thing I can say is that the whole homosexual movement is not of as great concern to me as is the illegal immigration invasion, the devaluation/inflation of our money, the undeclared wars, the expanded government spending, the increasingly unbalanced budget despite the higher taxes, increasing socialistic controls over every operation of our economy and every activity of our daily lives, the disdain of elected government officers and Americans in general for the principles of the US Constitution,... These things are having a greater impact on me and my family than the homosexual movement.

As I consider the prophetic priorities I hear and read coming out from 50 East North Temple St. it occurs to me that my priorities might be wrong. And I may well be unaware of the full seriousness of the homosexual movement, since it is not impacting us just now. I hope that helps.

KMCopeland
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by KMCopeland »

DrJones wrote:KMCopeland:
I'm ashamed and horrified by the money, time, and effort that the Church establishment, from the very top in Salt Lake City down to local bishops in California, lavished on on passing Prop 8.
"Ashamed and horrified" - by the "Church establishment" and "local bishops"?

I find that I disagree with you once again, KMC.
Ashamed and horrified by the money, time and effort the Church put into passing Prop 8.

You should know better than to set up a straw man.

Cookies
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Re: Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8

Post by Cookies »

lundbaek wrote:The Church's action about Prop 8 and its counterpart in Arizona was advocacy for a law to prevent people from marrying in a way the Lord disapproves of.
Somebody on this forum (I think it was jdawg) said something a while back that stuck with me. I think it applies here.
No one has the right to force their fellowman to do something because it's "the right thing to do," I believe in the freedom to choose what they will do and make of themselves. I give that same God-given right to others, even if I disagree with that choice, and I expect the same granted to me. If you feel you have the right to force people to do what you would have them do, then expect the same force compelling you to do something against your will as the pendulum swings back
God doesn't force his rules on us.

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