Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Lamoni'sBFF
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Lamoni'sBFF »

I have not been able to find any documentation so far on any link given in this thread or any thread on this entire forum that mentions Iohani. :(

proud 2b peculiar,
You said on another post I believe, "I want to let you know that I have verified this prophecy. Meaning that I have spoken to people that knew him and know his family." Could you elaborate on that? Who did you speak to, when, who did they say received it, when was it given?

Gruden,
You posted a story above about a Lady that works for church archives having been the person that received the blessing from Iohani. Did you write that yourself, or is it copied from somewhere? If you did write that, when did you talk to the lady? Who is she?

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Lamoni'sBFF
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Lamoni'sBFF »

Here is what my research has turned up on doing all the google searches I could think of for the various combinations of Yohani/Iohani Wolfgram prophecy/vision...

1 - Posted here http://216.92.158.36/Biblecodes/discus/ ... /1373.html on March 2005 by Richard Baldwin who's email is x@xx.com. I emailed him to see what he had to say about it.

2 - Found a reference to this URL http://www.pressie.org/DreamsJulyAugust2004.doc here http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=200868 showing the prophecy was available back in late summer of 2004

There are many places that have a reference to the document put together in the above link. I can't find anything further back than that. I did find a couple of people trying to provide authentication for the prophecy, but they all made money off something dealing with the prophecy or were friends of someone who did....

gruden
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by gruden »

Lamoni'sBFF wrote: Gruden,
not to be the wet blanket here, but you should look at the current drought situation, not one that is old...http://drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html I think we still have some dry times to come if this vision is true and not something someone made up and attributed to an amazing person.
2008 is after 1989, is it not? 2009 is very similar to 2008, which is similar (although expanded) from 2007... We really don't know precisely what year he was talking about, so to see what things look like in any of the last few years shows that we are facing serious drought conditions, both here and abroad. Is the one he's referencing worse than now? Maybe. Hard to say. Some people don't think the economy crashed in 2007-2008 in the final years of the Bush presidency either.

My source was a collection of stories. When you read up on Wolfgramm, you know his English wasn't the best, and he often gave blessings in his native tongue, and a family member (wife, I think) would bullet-point the highlights. So if you're looking for a word-for-word transcription, I don't think you're going to find it (how many write down each blessing they receive? Not many). Your best best is probably to study the scriptures and obtain the revelation for yourself, just like Wolfgramm did. He didn't achieve anything that no one else can do.

I posted a comparison between Wolfgramm's blessing/revelation and Sarah Menet's NDE description of latter-day events. They're quite similar, and you can search for it. If you're looking for something in-depth that generally agrees with Wolfgramm, that's the way to go.

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Lamoni'sBFF
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Lamoni'sBFF »

Thanks for the reply Gruden. I'll be honest and tell you that I put very little stock in what Menet has written, sorry. I personally put a lot more stock in what is attributed to Iohani (since I can't verify it for myself, I'll say attributed for now). I understand what you are saying about the drought, but I'm am looking for a cataclysmic drought. IE-one that "leads to chaos." Unless things get worse, I'm not seeing that in what we are or have been in recently. I'm not saying it won't occur, just that you can't point to what we have had and say that was it! You can say we are building to it though.

Just to clarify, you didn't speak to that lady that works for the church archives yourself, but that was one of the stories in your collection? Do you have any more information on her or whoever wrote that? I would love to follow up on those leads. My attempts here are to prove, not disprove BTW. I just don't feel comfortable accepting something so paradigm shifting w/o some verification. Also, I'm not looking really for the original text unless there is more than what I have.

Thanks

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NoGreaterLove
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by NoGreaterLove »

Lamoni'sBFF

I admire your search for truth. I too had the same desire you have now a few years back. I searched and searched but could not find the true source of this quote. It is attributed to a conversation he had with one of his friends and then went all over the internet. I can not even find the original poster of the quote.

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Lamoni'sBFF
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Lamoni'sBFF »

Thanks nogreaterlove. I appreciate that coming from you as I very much enjoy your posts here. I've got a couple leads through the family that I am following and if I find anything I'll be sure to post it here.

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NoGreaterLove
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by NoGreaterLove »

I'll be sure to post it here.
I will be looking forward to it.

The family does have a website. It has a blog you can comment on. I will see if I can find it.

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NoGreaterLove
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Lamoni'sBFF
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Here is the information on my current leads...
http://drop.io/aiucjz4/asset/iohani-research-jpg

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NoGreaterLove
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by NoGreaterLove »

Dream of the Cleansing of America
Yohani Wolfgram
A dream that he had in 1989 seeing the future of America as told to a close friend.
It was a dream of the cleansing of America.
Here are a few salient points that he mentioned:
* The Big economic collapse which leads to chaos will occur in the last year of the 2nd term of the son of George Bush who will become president.
* There will be a great drought at about this same time all over the
country.
* Many in the 'Church' will become unrighteous and apostatize.
* There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that will
affect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.
* Hundreds of millions of foreign troops (Chinese, Russians, Germans, Latin Americans, etc. according to other prophecies) will invade America.
* The main foreign force (in the Nevada/Utah/Rocky Mountain area) will be Chinese or Chinese looking troops mixed with Latin American troops.
* He said that in the third year of the second term of President Bush, the U.S. economy would collapse, which in turn would cause a series of events, including an invasion of foreign troops on U.S. soil.
* Someone commenting that the patriarch must mean that President Bush (the 1st Pres. Bush) would be re-elected. Patriarch Wolfgramm then replied (remember, this is 1989) that it wasn't that Pres. Bush, but that it was the son of Pres. Bush who would become president that he was referring to.

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/branton/LastPresident.html

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pjbrownie
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by pjbrownie »

Lamoni'sBFF wrote:Here is what my research has turned up on doing all the google searches I could think of for the various combinations of Yohani/Iohani Wolfgram prophecy/vision...

1 - Posted here http://216.92.158.36/Biblecodes/discus/ ... /1373.html on March 2005 by Richard Baldwin who's email is x@xx.com. I emailed him to see what he had to say about it.

2 - Found a reference to this URL http://www.pressie.org/DreamsJulyAugust2004.doc here http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=200868 showing the prophecy was available back in late summer of 2004

There are many places that have a reference to the document put together in the above link. I can't find anything further back than that. I did find a couple of people trying to provide authentication for the prophecy, but they all made money off something dealing with the prophecy or were friends of someone who did....
What did you find in relation to the reference I gave you?

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pjbrownie
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by pjbrownie »

I have had the same problems with the Milton Musser quote of Nephi Packard saying that Joseph Smith prophesied of a second civil war starting in Chicago.

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Lamoni'sBFF
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Lamoni'sBFF »

pjbrownie wrote:
What did you find in relation to the reference I gave you?
I read through the entire thing and didn't find anything directly mentioning it. There are a couple things I found in his various journals, etc that mention similar items as given in the blessing/prophecy such as:
# None of you know the time the United States will be destroyed by an atom bomb. None of us will know about the great earthquake that is to come. Some of you will be buried under the ground with it and many tidal waves, hurricanes, lots and lots of rain. There will be many disasters yet to come. The cup of the Savior will overflow with the evils of this world and he will not withhold his judgments.
# A few years from now it will begin. The Lord will pout out his wrath and you won't be able to stand the fire. You won't be able to stand still because he will shake the whole earth with an earthquake. It will cause the ground to open and many towns will be swallowed up in the earth. Those that live by the ocean won't be able to stop the tidal wave. It will fill the whole area. Where in the world can you be safe. I'm telling you, my children, don't harden your heart against the Lord's work. Be humble and become active in the Church. I am very frightened what the Lord's going to pour out upon the world. It is unbelievable what is to come, especially the fire will be like rats. The only thing that will stop you from the fear is to repent and come unto Christ. I beg of you to come and change your ways and do not fear but to be happy and live in harmony with the Lord and his teachings.
# Most of you, when the war comes, where will you get your water from? The Lord has told us we must have our food storage. He has promised us that those that live and prepare themselves have no need to worry. If ye are prepared, ye need not fear.

And, I'll be honest with you...this gets me most of the way there to believing he really did say that. Either he did or someone (intentionally or just growing as it spread) stretched it to the version we see today. Its easy to see how it could have grown to that b/c people have different versions of the first bullet point talking about the economic collapse. Either way, I'm definitely making sure I am spiritually and physically prepared. But I'm not quitting my job ;-)

gruden
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by gruden »

Lamoni'sBFF wrote:Thanks for the reply Gruden. I'll be honest and tell you that I put very little stock in what Menet has written, sorry. I personally put a lot more stock in what is attributed to Iohani (since I can't verify it for myself, I'll say attributed for now). I understand what you are saying about the drought, but I'm am looking for a cataclysmic drought. IE-one that "leads to chaos." Unless things get worse, I'm not seeing that in what we are or have been in recently. I'm not saying it won't occur, just that you can't point to what we have had and say that was it! You can say we are building to it though.
I'm not saying such a drought won't happen. There is a prophecy of a big hailstorm destroying much of the crops. A drought doesn't have to be a one-time event, especially given the fact that we have more extensive irrigation systems now than in ages past. Thanks to modern transportation we also have complex food delivery systems that can bring food from one side of the earth to another in a matter of hours. This makes us more resistant to localized droughts that could do serious damage to a smaller culture like the Nephites. That we have persistent droughts over fairly wide swaths of land (and growing) is very concerning. Combine this with a global economic system and you really don't need a worldwide drought to cause a catastrophe. You just need a few things to fall in place, and Wolfgramm mentions a couple of them.
Lamoni'sBFF wrote:Just to clarify, you didn't speak to that lady that works for the church archives yourself, but that was one of the stories in your collection? Do you have any more information on her or whoever wrote that? I would love to follow up on those leads. My attempts here are to prove, not disprove BTW. I just don't feel comfortable accepting something so paradigm shifting w/o some verification. Also, I'm not looking really for the original text unless there is more than what I have.

Thanks
I gave you all that I have. I don't know who reported it. Frankly, it does have the demeanor of heresay that many stories have that get passed around the Church. Wolfgramm was a spiritual giant, nevertheless, he didn't sit down to write his own account (that I know of) so really it's no more credible than Menet. All these things have to be accepted (or rejected) by faith and discernment. Really, the entire story surrounding the Second Coming and the events of the latter days are extreme paradigm shifting. The ultimate verification will come by the spirit. Maybe you could do as Nephi did and ask to see those same things yourself. I've been given a few small glimpses and it's some scary stuff.

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Lamoni'sBFF
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Lamoni'sBFF »

Thanks for clarifying that for me. Yeah, it is pretty scary. I have prayed more for calm than confirmation since we know that it will be bad from many church leaders and scripture.

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serenitylala
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by serenitylala »

gruden wrote:
Lamoni'sBFF wrote:Thanks for the reply Gruden. I'll be honest and tell you that I put very little stock in what Menet has written, sorry. I personally put a lot more stock in what is attributed to Iohani (since I can't verify it for myself, I'll say attributed for now). I understand what you are saying about the drought, but I'm am looking for a cataclysmic drought. IE-one that "leads to chaos." Unless things get worse, I'm not seeing that in what we are or have been in recently. I'm not saying it won't occur, just that you can't point to what we have had and say that was it! You can say we are building to it though.
I'm not saying such a drought won't happen. There is a prophecy of a big hailstorm destroying much of the crops. A drought doesn't have to be a one-time event, especially given the fact that we have more extensive irrigation systems now than in ages past. Thanks to modern transportation we also have complex food delivery systems that can bring food from one side of the earth to another in a matter of hours. This makes us more resistant to localized droughts that could do serious damage to a smaller culture like the Nephites. That we have persistent droughts over fairly wide swaths of land (and growing) is very concerning. Combine this with a global economic system and you really don't need a worldwide drought to cause a catastrophe. You just need a few things to fall in place, and Wolfgramm mentions a couple of them.
Haven't we been hearing accounts from across the globe of small droughts in bread-basket (farming) areas. What about the man-made drought because of that little fish the government is trying to protect?

Also, it takes a few years to feel the full effects of droughts.

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armedtotheteeth
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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* There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that will
affect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.
I have read somewhere that the SLC temple and round about region we be spared from any destruction; has anyone heard this?
If a nuke where to go off alone the Wasatch front, it would destroy most of SLC, and the fall out would kill for many miles onward. I don’t see how a nuke or underground tsunamis; as explained in these people “prophecy” could correlate, if it has been prophesied that temple square will be spared.

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shadow
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by shadow »

armedtotheteeth wrote:
* There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that will
affect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.
I have read somewhere that the SLC temple and round about region we be spared from any destruction; has anyone heard this?
If a nuke where to go off alone the Wasatch front, it would destroy most of SLC, and the fall out would kill for many miles onward. I don’t see how a nuke or underground tsunamis; as explained in these people “prophecy” could correlate, if it has been prophesied that temple square will be spared.
If I were to speculate on where a nuke would go off I'd suggest Hill AFB.

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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Scarecrow »

armedtotheteeth wrote:
* There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that will
affect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.
I have read somewhere that the SLC temple and round about region we be spared from any destruction; has anyone heard this?
If a nuke where to go off alone the Wasatch front, it would destroy most of SLC, and the fall out would kill for many miles onward. I don’t see how a nuke or underground tsunamis; as explained in these people “prophecy” could correlate, if it has been prophesied that temple square will be spared.
A typical 1 megaton bomb has a kill radius of approx 4-5 miles. A couple miles beyond that and the main danger from the blast is from flying debris. So unless the bomb is larger than that, most of SLC would survive a blast. The main threat would be the fallout, as you correctly pointed out, which, depending on wind conditions, could kill unprotected people up to two hundred miles away.

Shadow, I agree (Bro. Wolfgramm's prophecy not withstanding), Hill AFB is the most obvious target for a nuclear attack in Utah, followed by Dugway Proving Ground/Tooele Army Depot.

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Col. Flagg »

shadow wrote:
armedtotheteeth wrote:
* There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that will
affect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.
I have read somewhere that the SLC temple and round about region we be spared from any destruction; has anyone heard this?
If a nuke where to go off alone the Wasatch front, it would destroy most of SLC, and the fall out would kill for many miles onward. I don’t see how a nuke or underground tsunamis; as explained in these people “prophecy” could correlate, if it has been prophesied that temple square will be spared.
If I were to speculate on where a nuke would go off I'd suggest Hill AFB.
Yup. :shock:

jsk
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by jsk »

Has anyone stopped to consider that perhaps Elder Wolfgramm was referring to one of the other Bush sons....perhaps Jeb Bush??? He has aspirations to higher office as well...

The thought just occurred to me...

jsk

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Lamoni'sBFF
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by Lamoni'sBFF »

I have seen someone mention that on this forum before, but personally, considering the current state of the nation and many people's hatred for anything Bush, I'm not banking on it. Not counting it out 100%...only 99% :wink:

ktg
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by ktg »

Lamoni'sBFF wrote:I have seen someone mention that on this forum before, but personally, considering the current state of the nation and many people's hatred for anything Bush, I'm not banking on it. Not counting it out 100%...only 99% :wink:
You mean you still think the 'people' have any bearing on who is elected? :wink:

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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

Post by AussieOi »

i out myself on this one

i am somewhere closer to skeptical and not believe than believe

the other thing is, what was the point of all this stuff in the context of that blessing? why was it even in there?

also, lets be frank. apart from bush 2 becoming president (and considering who the family was and the grandfather etc its not impossible to think in 1989 that one of his sons would go on to be president) its all been a bit of a zero hasn't it?

there was no collapse- there should have beenm but it was averted. markets have recovered well

as for hundreds of millions- well, thats a big number. thats all i'll say about that

the rest looks way, waaaaaaaay off. including a nuke in SLC. that seems laughable for mine. a nuke would make most of the state uninhabitable. i thought that was why the church was moved to utah?

i would be highly worried if jeb or marlon became president of the US. THEN, i'd get worried that this "prophecy" has a chance.

i'm happy to file this one in the "hmm, could be something there" file. but as it stands i don't give it any credence

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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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ktg wrote:
Lamoni'sBFF wrote:I have seen someone mention that on this forum before, but personally, considering the current state of the nation and many people's hatred for anything Bush, I'm not banking on it. Not counting it ut 100%...only 99% :wink:
You mean you still think the 'people' have any bearing on who is elected? :wink:

AMEN...................AMEN

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