POKER & THE ART OF WAR: To My Beloved, Fellow Patriots

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

POKER & THE ART OF WAR: To My Beloved, Fellow Patriots

12-9-09

I’m new to the LDSfreedomforum, and having read some of the discussion threads of certain topics, I have noticed that there are those, it would appear – that are somewhat troubled of mind and of spirit – by certain happenings in our recent past.

I’ve had some thoughts that I think will bring good cheer – and lift the spirits, of all – and in particular, those who may be a bit downcast…and so I share them with you now – my beloved, fellow patriots.

When I was a kid, I used to enjoy playing the occasional game of poker…not for real money, mind you…just matchsticks, or something of that nature…to take the place of real loot. I found that the best satisfaction came from winning the pot, with absolutely nothing in my hand.

In Sun Tzu’s book, The Art of War; one of the most formidable weapons of war is described – and that is the skillful application of the art…of deception.

…in Book of Mormon speak…to employ a “stratagem”…i.e., since our only purpose was to defend our lives, our homes, our lands, our wives, our children, our liberty…and our religion…against an utterly vicious, cruel and evil enemy…we thought it not improper, to employ a “stratagem” (I am paraphrasing).

…and thus, the stripling warriors (among others), on more than one occasion, against insurmountable odds; “won the pot – with absolutely nothing in their hand”.

Keep in mind that the evil, with which we now contend is indeed, ruthless, vicious and powerful; with tentacles of influence strangling just about every facet of our lives these days. This enemy sent a “little” message of its power – and viciousness – when John Fitzgerald Kennedy grew a conscience…and decided he did not want to be a traitor to this country…made it known that he would disband the CIA; dismantle the Federal Reserve; and get us out of the Golden Triangle of Southeast Asia. Not only did they kill him; swiftly and decisively – they also controlled, with great dexterity, the outcome of the sham, congressional investigation that was to follow.

…and now, I’m going to relay some thoughts, by telling you a parable, that will prove to you that everything that has occurred in recent years is going exactly according to the Lord’s plan, and is exactly as it should be…and I believe that those of you whose minds are yet troubled…will afterwards be troubled no more, by these particular matters, to which I will refer.
_________________________________________________________

There once was a great man that lived in Germany – during the time of the Nazi regime. This man was very influential; respected; well thought of; a natural-born leader and a pillar of his community.

Unbeknownst to the Nazi authorities; this man had begun conducting what would later become a very successful operation; wherein a very great number of Jewish citizens, under the cover of stealth would be extricated from the country and to safety. This man would indeed, ultimately become responsible for saving many, many thousands of lives…men, women and children.

This man had a very valuable servant, whom he held in the highest esteem. The servant was his best and his brightest…his most dependable…his character; integrity, and courage were of the very utmost quality. This servant was well loved, and very highly regarded by his master. This servant was shielded and protected from knowing of the secret and dangerous operation. He was innocent of any knowledge of it whatsoever.

One day, during the early beginnings of the secret operation; Nazi authorities came to the great man with a concern. It seemed that this particular servant, of whom we spoke, was publicizing some “ridiculous notions” that were beginning to cause a problem…insofar as to undermine the activities of the Nazi regime. He was spreading ideas such as: Jews, as a people were every bit as good as anyone else…and had every right to live and be treated with kindness and respect.

The great man was told that because of his great stature and influence in the community – and because of the servant’s affiliation with him – that lent credibility to the things that the servant was saying. People were beginning to believe some of his words…and something must be quickly done.

The great man said that he understood the gravity of the situation; and that he could clearly visualize what immediately needed to be done…that he would personally take speedy action that would effectively discredit and neutralize the influence of that servant.

On the way out from the great man’s home, the authorities stopped and turned. They mentioned to the man that they had an upcoming feast, and wondered if he would consider honoring them with the donation of one of his widely famous, delicious pigs for the feast.

Without hesitation, the great man smiled and said that yes, not only would he be happy to donate his best pig – but that it would honor him if they would also accept three of his finest, most tender, grain-fed, fatted steers – for the feast and a for a few months worth of provisions, as well. The authorities said that indeed, they would honor him by accepting his gift. As they left, the great man smiled, shook their hands; and said blessings to you; your kindred and friends.

Within himself, the great man was grieved, but he knew that he could not show it. He knew he would not be able to speak frankly with his beloved servant, until some distant time in the future; once the war had ended. He spoke with his servant the next day. The servant was to leave his employ, immediately because of the views he was disseminating. No other explanation was given. The great man, then sent a press release to the local newspaper; outlining the disaffection, between him and his former servant.

The servant was effectively discredited. His reputation was sullied; respect was lost; things were difficult financially; strain was brought to bear on family relationships and friendships.

(The brilliance of what had taken place, now was this: even if the authorities might have wondered concerning the great man’s real beliefs; they were nevertheless, placated in any fears that he might stand in their way…and so they left him and his operation alone.)

This all was very painful for the servant. He had been faithful and true in every way…to his master…to his conscience…and to his God…and now, while having been discarded…he observed his previous master honoring those evil men; not only with his best pig, fit for the feast, for which they had asked – but, adding insult to injury…also with three of his finest steers, that he completely of his own volition had volunteered.

Because of the servant’s great character, courage and virtue – he carried on – apart now from his former master. Many lives were blessed; more and more people began to believe the truth…and by divine providential design, the life of the former servant was spared…and his works began to bear much fruit.

The great man knew that it was not within his power at that time; nor was it his mission in life to conquer the evil enemy. That would be the role of others. His vision was clear as to what his mission was…to save as many lives, as he could – of his oppressed Jewish, fellow countrymen. The great man had faith, that by some other means; in the own due time of the Lord; the great, evil enemy would be conquered – and ultimately brought to justice before their Maker.

…and even though at that point in time, the enemy could have easily, at their sole pleasure and discretion – overpowered him and destroyed him and his entire operation…his operation did roll forth…and a great many thousands of lives were saved; that otherwise would have been destroyed.

…and so, by employing a wise “stratagem”, the great man had “won the pot, with absolutely nothing in his hand.”

According to the great man’s faith, other means were brought to bear to defeat and conquer the great evil; and at last the war had ended.

Immediately; now able to speak frankly, the great man went with haste to his former servant and told him all. He embraced him with genuine love. He put him back into his employ, and rewarded him an hundred-fold.
__________________________________________________________

Would not inspired men in our day have been given to understand just such principles; so that they would clearly understand, exactly how they should handle “things”?

…or, perhaps even better – so that they might be more apt to act naturally – could their minds have been providentially influenced to overlook certain truisms for now – only later to be shown, when necessary and expedient to know, for correct action at a later time?

Is it not wisdom, at this time – that by other men (which includes church members acting in unofficial capacities, together with non-members) and by other means, the secret combination shall continue to be exposed and meet its doom? One day when the Lord’s wrath is being poured out over all the earth…while the most wicked and elite of the secret combination are nestled underground, in their nuclear-hardened, granite encased places of sanctuary…it would be but a small matter for the Lord; for them to be buried and crushed, beneath the very rock and earth, which they thought would be a protection to them. There will be a cleansing of this land – and then a righteous remnant…and the Constitution, which is now hanging by a thread, shall be restored.

…and that little stone, that was cut without hands, shall roll forth and become a great mountain and fill the earth.

There is a time for facing evil down; eyeball-to-eyeball; a time for boldly calling it what it is – telling it to repent or be destroyed…and, at times that is the proper roll for some; in accordance with the mind and will of the Lord…such was the divine mission and calling of Abinadi, towards the end of his life…and indeed, that was the end of his life, as he courageously suffered death by fire.

Each of us has different rolls, callings and missions in life; in accordance with the mind and will of the Lord. We must each seek that out, by the Spirit.

Upon an occasion, when by necessity Abraham and Sarah would be staying amongst some evil, wicked, murderous men; the Lord advised him to keep his mouth shut – and to tell them that the beautiful woman who accompanied him was his sister – and to act accordingly. Had Abraham not listened; had he gone in there “guns-a-blazing”, over their wicked and evil ways…they probably would have killed him and ravaged his wife. Abraham had a different mission to fulfill.

Jesus, the greatest prophet of all, had his mission. He lived under a brutal, murderous, tyrannical dictatorship. There had been countless murders by government entities – of innocent men, women and children…yet it was not the Savior’s mission to face down and overthrow those wicked men and those wicked forms of government…and restore liberty to the land. The wicked kingdoms of Rome and the Jews of that time would later fall by other means. He had a greater mission to perform. He kept his focus steadfastly on that; and he carried it out.

Is it a sin for one to show an act of kindness to a vile and wicked person? Does God love his wicked sons and daughters on this earth? “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” Does that not apply also, to the most vile, wicked, abominable scumbag you can imagine?

…and do not even the very wicked have some good things they have ever done or accomplished in their lives? Can anything nice, ever be said of them? Can any compliment be ever given?

Again, I ask is there wrong in expressing a kind gesture, or engaging in a kind act towards a wicked, evil person?

Incontestably, the perpetration of the crucifixion of our Lord, was the most vile, despicable, wicked, and abominable of all acts, to ever desecrate this planet. To the perpetrators of that most abominable of all acts, what did Jesus, the greatest prophet of all say to them? At that particular moment in time, did He feel the need to call them on the carpet, for their vile and evil acts? Showing the utmost strength of character and self-mastery, as they were inflicting barbarous pain upon Him…were His words to them not words of kindness…and will those words not be known throughout all the annals of history, in time immemorial?

I am going to close now with some words from the Savior, as he was giving to us a few examples of appropriate actions that may, under various circumstances be employed – even against the most evil, wicked; and vile – of one's enemies. See if any of those principles, which Jesus taught have application to anything we have just discussed.

I hope that the sharing of these thoughts might be of benefit to those who frequent this forum.

God bless you stalwart patriots for your goodness; and Godspeed you in your defense of liberty.

…and God bless His restored Church, and His divinely appointed, authorized servants – which together form the unstoppable stone that shall continue rolling forth, until it fills the entire earth.

…and now here are those words from Jesus, to which I have just referred (from Matthew 5 and 25):

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


“Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”

[SwissMrs&Pitchfirecaptain of 1,000]

Thanks, that definitely ties some things together for me. "Agree with thine adversary while thou art in the way with him." "Wise as serpents, harmless as doves." That gives me cause to think and perhaps repent of a few things (root out false notions I may have harbored or even passed on and replace them in both instances). I'll have to look hard in the mirror and see if that's not the case. Maybe, maybe not.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Thank you for your comment, SwissMrs. I've been bothered the past couple of days, about writing that...and just could not rest easy, until I had it posted.

Believe me, I am far from having the self-mastery to live some of those principles the way that I should. I tend to gravitate towards the style of "shoot all the bad guys, now...and ask questions later".

[echecketcaptain of 10]

dconrad000:

Did you seriously write all that? Wow. Thank you for that post. I needed that. Very powerful.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Thank you for your comment, Echecket. Thoughts came over the past few days...got a start on it last night...finished up this afternoon...had my wife proof read it...she helped me make a couple of improvements.

...feel better now...I had felt pressed upon...

DC

[JasonI am a nobody!]

I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)

I testify that the church and kingdom of God is increasing in strength. Its numbers are growing, as is the faithfulness of its faithful members. It has never been better organized or equipped to perform its divine mission.

I testify that as the forces of evil increase under Lucifer’s leadership and as the forces of good increase under the leadership of Jesus Christ, there will be growing battles between the two until the final confrontation. As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested. God’s wrath will soon shake the nations of the earth and will be poured out on the wicked without measure. (See JS—H 1:45; D&C 1:9.) But God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (See 1 Ne. 22:15–23.)

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... 82620aRCRD

Evil would never flourish without the general support of the people...whether in secret or open. Its the dereliction of the duty to stand forth boldly for truth and righteousness that allows the secret combinations to flourish. People bind their lips and close their eyes to what goes on around them in effort to hold fast to their own prosperity and physical well being. People strain to believe the lies because that appeases their conscience....otherwise they might be compelled to ask the questions despite the deep fear of the answers.

The evidence is long and deep and yet the enemy confidently struts about in open public display.

It matters not what the church does, or the prophet does....or anybody else for that matter.....what matters is our own conscience and our personal accountability before God for our actions and/or inactions. Let the chips fall where they may!

[mchlwisecaptain of 100]

Evil would never flourish without the general support of the people...

.....what matters is our own conscience and our personal accountability before God for our actions and/or inactions.

I think these two things are key.

Evil is obviously flourishing at this point, and clearly has at least tacit support of the general people. It is clear and obvious and yet people continue to support it. As apparent as it is, what will it take for people to "wake up" if they haven't already? Is there anything that we can say or do that will make a difference?

In attempting to "wake up" people, are we in reality making ourselves a target for evil when it becomes "all powerful" and can wreak actual destruction on us?

We can ignore the cause of protesting or waking people up because of selfishness, but we can also be wise and protect that which is in our own stewardship. We can quietly make our own preparations while we wait for a more opportune time.

Whether we should do something, anything, or nothing, and whether we are being selfish or prudent is indeed a matter that can only be between us and the Lord.

[Scarecrowcaptain of 100]

Great post conrad. Thanks.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Evil would never flourish without the general support of the people...

.....what matters is our own conscience and our personal accountability before God for our actions and/or inactions.

I think these two things are key.

Evil is obviously flourishing at this point, and clearly has at least tacit support of the general people. It is clear and obvious and yet people continue to support it. As apparent as it is, what will it take for people to "wake up" if they haven't already? Is there anything that we can say or do that will make a difference?

In attempting to "wake up" people, are we in reality making ourselves a target for evil when it becomes "all powerful" and can wreak actual destruction on us?

We can ignore the cause of protesting or waking people up because of selfishness, but we can also be wise and protect that which is in our own stewardship. We can quietly make our own preparations while we wait for a more opportune time.

Whether we should do something, anything, or nothing, and whether we are being selfish or prudent is indeed a matter that can only be between us and the Lord.

Well said!!!

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Thank you, Holyhabenero.

...nice AK-47...

(That was in his old avatar -- of course the one there now, is not an AK-47.)

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Thanks for your comment, Jason. That's a great quote from ETB.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Thanks for your comment, Jason. That's a great quote from ETB.

Your welcome....yes he was straight to the point....no fluff!

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

...yes, and I really liked his books, "An Enemy Hath Done This", "God, Country, Family", & The Red Carpet: Socialism, The Royal Road To Communism". I never did get around to reading his other book, "On Wings Of Faith"...but I'm sure it is great, as well.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

There is a lot of wisdom in what you say, Mchlwise. I was just keeping my mouth shut for now...trying not to make myself a target...and then when I started getting wind about the whole phony Level 6 Pandemic situation -- and the prospects of Mandatory Vaccinations...I felt I just had to take action; because of what I knew about vaccines...and I felt a force compelling me.

See: VACCINE INFOWAR IN CARDSTON COUNTRY

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9764

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

...more on Ezra Taft Benson...

I first remember noticing who he was in 1979, before going on my mission. I made the comment to a family friend one day, "I wonder who the secret combination talked about in the Book of Mormon really is, in our day?" He said you should read a little book I've got, called None Dare Call It Conspiracy (by Gary Allen)...It tells all about it, and on the back of the book is the statement, to the effect...I wish that every American would read this book...signed Ezra Taft Benson, former Secretary of Agriculture." ...who at the time was an Apostle...trouble was the family friend had lent the book out to someone that never returned it. I went to a bookstore and it was out of print...but after my mission while at BYU, I found one lone, tattered copy in the entire, huge Harold B Lee Library. Once I opened it, I could not set it down...and that was my first introduction to who the present-day secret combination really is.

[echecketcaptain of 10]

...more on Ezra Taft Benson...

I first remember noticing who he was in 1979, before going on my mission. I made the comment to a family friend one day, "I wonder who the secret combination talked about in the Book of Mormon really is, in our day?" He said you should read a little book I've got, called None Dare Call It Conspiracy (by Gary Allen)...It tells all about it, and on the back of the book is the statement, to the effect...I wish that every American would read this book...signed Ezra Taft Benson, former Secretary of Agriculture." ...who at the time was an Apostle...trouble was the family friend had lent the book out to someone that never returned it. I went to a bookstore and it was out of print...but after my mission while at BYU, I found one lone, tattered copy in the entire, huge Harold B Lee Library. Once I opened it, I could not set it down...and that was my first introduction to who the present-day secret combination really is.

If you're interested in the full story, let me know, but when my dad was my age (late 20's), he and his friends came across a vinyl record, published by a man named Myron Fagan. Mr. Fagan was a Hollywood insider, and had become privy to the goings on of a global financial/political conspiracy. In an effort to alert the general public, he published this record where he detailed everything he had learned about this sinister conspiracy. Long story short, my dad and his friends had the opportunity to meet President Benson, and to play the entire record for him (president of the quorum of the twelve at the time). President Benson, having served for 8 years in Eisenhower's cabinet, corroborated Mr. Fagan's claims, and from then until his (Benson's) death, mailed my dad articles and letters on a regular basis; articles about freedom and politics.

Anyway, I'm sure we can all basically agree who the secret combination is. My point is just that you would probably be interested to read the transcript of Myron Fagan's record. You can listen to the whole record and read the transcript for free, online.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

...more on Ezra Taft Benson...

I first remember noticing who he was in 1979, before going on my mission. I made the comment to a family friend one day, "I wonder who the secret combination talked about in the Book of Mormon really is, in our day?" He said you should read a little book I've got, called None Dare Call It Conspiracy (by Gary Allen)...It tells all about it, and on the back of the book is the statement, to the effect...I wish that every American would read this book...signed Ezra Taft Benson, former Secretary of Agriculture." ...who at the time was an Apostle...trouble was the family friend had lent the book out to someone that never returned it. I went to a bookstore and it was out of print...but after my mission while at BYU, I found one lone, tattered copy in the entire, huge Harold B Lee Library. Once I opened it, I could not set it down...and that was my first introduction to who the present-day secret combination really is.

If you're interested in the full story, let me know, but when my dad was my age (late 20's), he and his friends came across a vinyl record, published by a man named Myron Fagan. Mr. Fagan was a Hollywood insider, and had become privy to the goings on of a global financial/political conspiracy. In an effort to alert the general public, he published this record where he detailed everything he had learned about this sinister conspiracy. Long story short, my dad and his friends had the opportunity to meet President Benson, and to play the entire record for him (president of the quorum of the twelve at the time). President Benson, having served for 8 years in Eisenhower's cabinet, corroborated Mr. Fagan's claims, and from then until his (Benson's) death, mailed my dad articles and letters on a regular basis; articles about freedom and politics.

Anyway, I'm sure we can all basically agree who the secret combination is. My point is just that you would probably be interested to read the transcript of Myron Fagan's record. You can listen to the whole record and read the transcript for free, online.

links would be highly appreciated...Thank you!

[echecketcaptain of 10]

Here are a couple links (I can't find the links I used to use, but I assume these ones are just as good):


Transcript:
http://usa-the-republic.com/illuminati/cfr_1.html


Audio:
http://usa-the-republic.com/audio/index.html#fagan


I should probably give the disclaimer that: I wasn't at the meeting my dad had with President Benson (obviously), and I can't speak for President Benson. There is A LOT OF INFO given in this lecture. My assumption is that President Benson didn't intend to endorse every single one of Mr. Fagan's points. The idea that was communicated to me was that President Benson said the recording in general was factual. (for example, I'm a LITTLE hesitant to be too quick to agree with Mr. Fagan's points about Thomas Jefferson). Anyway, please check it out. I promise you won't be bored by it!

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I was imipressed by dconrad000's statement that once he started into "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" he could not set it down. Some time back I loaned my copy to one of the pillars in our stake - large family, great home teacher, scout leader, bishop, high council, stake presidency, all the right stuff - and he started twice to read it and never really got into it. What makes the difference?

[echecketcaptain of 10]

I was imipressed by dconrad000's statement that once he started into "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" he could not set it down. Some time back I loaned my copy to one of the pillars in our stake - large family, great home teacher, scout leader, bishop, high council, stake presidency, all the right stuff - and he started twice to read it and never really got into it. What makes the difference?

He who hath ears to hear...

My brother is one of the most "righteous" people I know, as far as "doing the commandments". But he just seems to totally miss the mark when it comes to really understanding freedom. He knows about our dad's experience with President Benson, yet he just doesn't seem to get that we are basically ruled by Gadiantons. I marvel at how such good people can be so blind to such a huge issue.

P.S. I'm guessing that most of you have seen the video clip of President Benson (IN GENERAL CONFERENCE!!!!) recommending that the members read 'None Dare Call it Conspiracy'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJNMcD2IY_k

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I also do not agree with Mr. Fagan's points about Thomas Jefferson. If that were true, I don't think Jefferson would have been at the St. George Temple along with most of the other signers of the Declaration of Independence.

[echecketcaptain of 10]

I also do not agree with Mr. Fagan's points about Thomas Jefferson. If that were true, I don't think Jefferson would have been at the St. George Temple along with most of the other signers of the Declaration of Independence.

Haha...exactly.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Thanks for posting those links, Echecket. That little clip of ETB at Gen Conf, 1972 is a real gem. I would have been 11 years-old at the time...and obviously was not paying very good attention -- because I had no idea that he said such a thing at a General Conference.

[echecketcaptain of 10]

Thanks for posting those links, Echecket. That little clip of ETB at Gen Conf, 1972 is a real gem. I would have been 11 years-old at the time...and obviously was not paying very good attention -- because I had no idea that he said such a thing at a General Conference.

You're welcome. I had heard a couple years ago that he said that in General Conference, and I didn't doubt it. But when I found that video clip on YouTube, and was able to actually SEE and HEAR him say it, I was thrilled!

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

A couple of years ago, while we were living in SLC, I went to the Church History Library and read in the April 1972 Conference Report that talk by Elder Benson. The statement about "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was missing. It is also missing from the July 1972 Ensign report of that talk. I have wondered why that statement was pulled but the recommendations of the other 3 books remained.

[echecketcaptain of 10]

A couple of years ago, while we were living in SLC, I went to the Church History Library and read in the April 1972 Conference Report that talk by Elder Benson. The statement about "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was missing. It is also missing from the July 1972 Ensign report of that talk. I have wondered why that statement was pulled but the recommendations of the other 3 books remained.

I was aware of that, Lundbaek. I have wondered the same thing. Obviously there are some who would hope our conclusion is that the church did it as a way to refute the endorsement. I'm not saying that that is not a possibility, but there are certainly other explanations.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfirecaptain of 1,000]

Honestly it is very likely that the prophet and seer saw the way we would take it up as doctrine and feared the association. I think we all too often are like Peter, overzealous. The book is good, but it obviously misses what that conspiracy has morphed into and it hasn't exactly been the brethren's main focus recently.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

...There is A LOT OF INFO given in this lecture [Mr.Fagan's]...

Somebody sent me a video recently, on the topic -- that was very easy to watch and enjoyable. It is a sit-down interview with a very influential person in our contemporary society, who had befriended someone who was a member of the secret combination. He was shown a lot -- and attempts were made to entice him to join in on the spoils -- but he did not feel right about it, and politely declined.

It is 1 1/2 hours long -- but very interesting and easy to watch...could likely hold the attention of teenagers who are interested in the subject:

Reflections And Warnings - An Interview With Aaron Russo {Full Film}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdbgQ

[echecketcaptain of 10]

...There is A LOT OF INFO given in this lecture [Mr.Fagan's]...

Somebody sent me a video recently, on the topic -- that was very easy to watch and enjoyable. It is a sit-down interview with a very influential person in our contemporary society, who had befriended someone who was a member of the secret combination. He was shown a lot -- and attempts were made to entice him to join in on the spoils -- but he did not feel right about it, and politely declined.

It is 1 1/2 hours long -- but very interesting and easy to watch...could likely hold the attention of teenagers who are interested in the subject:

Reflections And Warnings - An Interview With Aaron Russo {Full Film}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdbgQ

I have seen this. God Bless Aaron Russo. I hope he's accepted the Gospel on the other side. Great man, as far as his commitment to freedom.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

I have seen this. God Bless Aaron Russo. I hope he's accepted the Gospel on the other side. Great man, as far as his commitment to freedom.

He really speaks candidly in that interview..."wearing his heart on his sleeve"...comes across as a truly caring human being.