"Deseret News" shows liberal bias on immigration issue.

[jonholb55captain of 100]

I was just reading the "Deseret News" on line. There is an article in the newspaper from 27 May 2009 by Jerry Johnston titled, "SB81 Will Break-Up LDS Families". It is another illegal immigration "sob" story. I welcome any new convert to the LDS Church regardless of their ethnicity, race or country of national origin. However, the rule of law needs to be maintained whether a person is LDS or not. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may be working on the illegal immigration issue behind the scenes but it remains politically neutral regarding immigration. It also upholds the rule of law as mandated by one of the Articles of Faith. I have already submitted to the Deseret News my comments regarding this article. I would suggest to my fellow Latter-day Conservatives that you review this article and leave your comments with the D-News.
I understand that Jerry Johnston is a Branch President over a Hispanic LDS congregation. In part, I can understand his personal feelings on the matter. However, how the article is framed leaves one with the impression that The Church of Jesus Christ would favor an open-door policy with regards to illegal immigration. I believe this to be incorrect. If anarchy swept over the United States, it would hinder, if not stop the divine mission of this Church to take the Restored Gospel to all the world.
Thank-You

[MahonriMaster]

After speaking to someone in position to know, who said he would deny it if I said he said it, the Brethren are split on this issue.

Some of them see it as a law issue, others as a humanitarian issue, others in other ways.

The alien part of the issue is irrelevant to me, I am more worried about its independence destroying implications.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

About two and a half years ago I heard Elder Eyring say that the First Presidency believed that (I assume illegal) immigration would continue and we "will have to live with it." And some of you may remember about a year and a half ago now the First Presidency sent a message to a Utah state legislative committee asking that in considering new legislation that would cut benefits to illegals they be "merciful" I think was one of the words used.

I am about as opposed to illegal immigration and in favour of deportation of illegals as anyone can get. I view it as a situation deliberately created by Satan and his LDGs for the express purpose of destroying the U.S. economy and culture, and greasing the skids for a regional socialist or fascist government.

I have the impression that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would favour an open-door policy with regards to illegal immigration. I am glad to note Mahonri's comment that "the Brethren are split on this issue." Nice to know it's not just me. I am forced to associate in church with LDSs who favour what would amount to open borders.

I consider the line that "SB81 Will Break-Up LDS Families" to be hogwash. My wife is still a citizen of her native country. If she were to be deported, I would go with her. Our kids are US citizens. There should be no reason for families to be split up that I can see.

LDSs in the US Congress are very much responsible for the illegal immigration problem we have now, and that view was reinforced by Tom Tancredo, a Rep. from Colorado, who stated that among the biggest supporters of illegals are Mormons in Congress.

[pritchet1captain of 1,000]

11 videos on Illegal immigration
"Must Watch" Immigration Videos

The title of the video series is "The Promise of Home."

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

Won't mean a thing to the illegal huggers in our ward and stake here in Mesa, AZ. They believe the Lord wants them here and we should help them assimilate.

[ChelCThe Law]

I do not agree with illegal immigration, but the problem doesn't lie with the immigrants. If you were living in poverty or with medical ailments and didn't have the help you needed, and you knew that help was just over the border and if you knew that country didn't take your trespass seriously and to you it meant suffering and/or death to choose otherwise, what would you do? The problem as I see it is this:

1. We have a welfare state which baits illegal immigrants.
2. We have no consequence for illegal entry into our country.
3. We have laws which force hospitals to offer care for all and pass the buck.
4. We are not charitable enough as individuals.

I believe that the United States should not have this welfare system. I believe we should be more charitable and Christlike and have more immigration that is legal. If those changes were made we'd have more fabulous immigrants who want liberty and who want to work for it.

[pritchet1captain of 1,000]

I think for the most part, we still believe in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law. If we don't, the infrastructure will collapse (more quickly).

"Got Tribe?"

[jonholb55captain of 100]

I am glad at this moment in time to see that the General Authorities are split on this issue of illegal immigration. The Lord wants us to use our moral agency on the issue. We need to petition our representatives on this issue. Right now, special interest groups with lots of money are controlling the debate. Rank and file American citizens need to speak up on this issue so as not to permit special interests groups to bring about legislation that is contrary to the Constitution or the rule of law on this matter.
If the Lord decides to speak out on the issue, He will let us know through his appointed channels. Keep your eyes on the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve speaking as one united voice. Do not rely on the editorial columns of the Deseret News or any other secular publication.
Thank-You
P.S. Don't blame Jose, Maria and their five kids who come here because they want a better life for themselves. The real villians are the politicians and other special interest groups who exploit this tragic situation for their own selfish purposes.

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

Won't mean a thing to the illegal huggers in our ward and stake here in Mesa, AZ. They believe the Lord wants them here and we should help them assimilate.

The Lord does want them here so that when the time comes he can use the more wicked part of the immigrants, gang bangers etc to tread down the wicked gentiles that inhabit the continent. They are to be part of the "cleanse" that will eventually happen. But no worrries the gentiles wont be "utterly" destroyed.

The gentiles that live here have brought this upon themselves for failing to repent and accept the restored gospel which includes the inspired constitution!

[MahonriMaster]

The Lord does want them here so that when the time comes he can use the more wicked part of the immigrants, gang bangers etc to tread down the wicked gentiles that inhabit the continent. They are to be part of the "cleanse" that will eventually happen. But no worrries the gentiles wont be "utterly" destroyed.

The gentiles that live here have brought this upon themselves for failing to repent and accept the restored gospel which includes the inspired constitution!

Many (if not most) active LDS fall into this category, unfortunately.

[jonholb55captain of 100]

The modern-day Lamanites will only inherit the Land of Joseph when they become more righteous than the gentiles. If the gentiles repent and join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, along with their Lamanite Brethern, then they will work together to establish the Latter-day Zion upon this (the American) Continent. The rebellious gentiles will be swept off before the House of Israel(Of which the Lamanites are a branch of) when they(the gentiles) reject the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. This day is closer than many believe.

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

JH55, I think the lamanites are more righteous than the gentiles now! Our stake president was recently lamenting on how the caucasion wards were not growing much but that the hispanic wards were growing quite rapidly. This is a sign that the lamanites are preparing themselves to fulfill the prophecies found in 3rd nephi 16, 20 and 21.

The day is close at hand indeed.

[Liberty26Hi, I'm new.]

I've been out of the loop for a while so I have a couple of questions:

First, I was under the impression that the Church backed off from identifying the Indians as Lamanites. Didn't the DNA testing show no connection between the Indians and Middle East?

And, why would anyone in the church be supportive of people who break the laws of their own country by leaving at points not legally authorized, enter another country without permission and in violation of that country's law, obtain false identity documents in order to work without legal authorization, placing more citizens and legal immigrants into the misery of unemployment? It seems to me that it is the least among us who suffers from this illegality while those who have been blessed the most gain from it. What is humanitarian about that?

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I tried once to bring this issue to the attention of our stake president in person and he turned and engaged another person in conversation. On another occasion I wrote a letter addressed to the stake president about reported (to me) illegals in the Hispanic branch in our stake, and gave it to our bishop with the request that he review it and forward it to the stake president. The bishop later told me that he did not give it to the stake president, and avoided further discussion with me.

I am convinced that illegal immigration is promoted by the LDGs as part of their effort to destroy the culture, economy, and standard of living of the USA so that Americans will more willingly surrender freedoms for security, to put it briefly.

As I stated in my 29 May post (above) "about two and a half years ago I heard Elder Eyring say that the First Presidency believed that (I assume illegal) immigration would continue and we "will have to live with it."" Also, like freedom and constitutional principles in government, this is another issue that could, to use an expression that Ezra Taft Benson once used, "split the Church asunder".

[obamohnocaptain of 100]

Won't mean a thing to the illegal huggers in our ward and stake here in Mesa, AZ. They believe the Lord wants them here and we should help them assimilate.

The Lord does want them here so that when the time comes he can use the more wicked part of the immigrants, gang bangers etc to tread down the wicked gentiles that inhabit the continent. They are to be part of the "cleanse" that will eventually happen. But no worrries the gentiles wont be "utterly" destroyed.

The gentiles that live here have brought this upon themselves for failing to repent and accept the restored gospel which includes the inspired constitution!

l some good comedy..

[obamohnocaptain of 100]

Won't mean a thing to the illegal huggers in our ward and stake here in Mesa, AZ. They believe the Lord wants them here and we should help them assimilate.

The Lord does want them here so that when the time comes he can use the more wicked part of the immigrants, gang bangers etc to tread down the wicked gentiles that inhabit the continent. They are to be part of the "cleanse" that will eventually happen. But no worrries the gentiles wont be "utterly" destroyed.

The gentiles that live here have brought this upon themselves for failing to repent and accept the restored gospel which includes the inspired constitution!

these types of statements bewilder me.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

Why should those statements bewilder anyone? They are expressions of genuine opinion and concern. I calls 'em as I sees 'em when I sez the illegal huggers in our ward and stake here in Mesa, AZ seriously believe the Lord wants them here and we should help them assimilate. I find some who honestly believe that the 12th Article of Faith does not apply to illegal immigrants.

And I think one could make a case, using the Scriptures, that the Lord does want those illegals here so that when the time comes he can use the more wicked part of the immigrants, gang bangers etc. to tread down the wicked gentiles that inhabit the continent. It may well be that they are to be part of the "cleanse" that will eventually happen. Remember that statement, which I'm too lazy to look up, that no one will come to this land without the Lord's concurrence.

[patriotsaintcaptain of 1,000]

I think the belief that the gentiles will be tread down by "gang bangers" is a little far fetched. If and when the gentile nations are tread down it will require more organization and power than a few sporadic gangs posess. At least in my opinion.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I agree that the "gang bangers" and even isolated groups of illegals are not going to be the major force. But they are elements that during the events spoken of in 3 Nephi 16, 20 & 21 could be on an individual basis more viscious than the main attacking force.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

This from sweet Lou at CNN news in case you didn't see it.


http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/16 ... -vi26..wmv

[patriotsaintcaptain of 1,000]

I agree lund that in the event of a national meltdown gang bangers, both legal and illegal could wreak havoc in small pockets of violence.

In fact, in some areas, citizens are probably more likely to face a threat from this type of gang violence than anything else.

I merely was pointing out that the treading down of gentile nations is more likely to be accomplished by entities with far more power/wealth/organization. Most illegal immigrants I know live paycheck to paycheck. They aren't collecting arms and bullets in a fashion that would allow for a large campaign waged against gentile nations.




Mark,

That bill sure does look like junk. I still feel though, that we shouldn't lump all illegal immigrants into the same category. There are good, hardworking illegal immigrants.......and there are criminals involved in drugs/violence etc that should be dealt with accordingly. Lumping them into the same group and trying to find a "one size fits all" solution (like this crappy bill) isn't an effective approach to our situation.

Removing all of these people from the US is a logistical nightmare and will never happen. Time to start thinking of solutions that are actually workable. If the bill were changed to require the following would you be in favor of it?

1. Require all back taxes to be paid
2. Require anyone found guilty of violent or drug related offenses to be deported
3. Provide for the actual securing of our border to prevent future illegal immigration

These are just ideas. I'm not sure what the exact solution is but I believe that deporting everyone isn't the best solution. I also believe our borders must be secured before any practical solution regarding current illegal immigrants can be reached.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I favour deportation of all illegal immigrants in order to frustrate the purpose of elements of our government and business communities for tempting and encouraing them to come here in the first place. I do not expect it to happen, any more than I expect constitutional principles to be restored to government by the current people in government.

[patriotsaintcaptain of 1,000]

Ok,

but since you know deportation will not happen (it is logistically impossible) what can we do to better the situation we have been given to deal with?

I think sealing the borders against more illigal immigration would be the place to focus our efforts. After that, and only after that will we be able to focus on effectively dealing with illegal immigrants currently living in this country. "Stopping the bleeding" should always be priority number one don't you think?

For those already in this country it seems it would be wise to deal with them mercifully. Not to the extent of giving them more rights and opportunites than we have already as citizens, but we should remember that with what judgement we judge......we will be judged. And with what measure we mete......it shall be meted out to us again.

Who knows? maybe someday when calamities hit we will be hoping to join a group of people that are better situated than we are (whether in this country or out). I'm sure in our need we will hope to be welcomed and ministered to as opposed to being labeled "aliens" and cast out.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I guess there's not much sense discussing the possibility or impossibility of deporting illegals currently in the country when, at this point, there are so many Americans who support amnesty for them. If an effort comparable to that to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan were made to shut off immigration across our Southern border and apprehend and deport illegals here now, I would favour such an effort.

It should be increasingly clear that our President & Co., as well as many congressmen, both in the House and in the Senate, have no intention of stopping the influx of illegal immigrants, and support permitting illegal aliens’ access to the benefits that legal Americans and legal aliens paid for. They condone legislation, already proven not to work, that would allow unlimited amnesty under one disguise or another, for illegals already here. Americans should realize that the easiest solution to the problem would be to forget about amnesty and impose big penalties, including heavy fines and long prison sentences, on those responsible for hiring illegals. The rest of the illegal immigration problems will resolve themselves when there are no jobs for illegals

But it is “We, the people” who elected to office those government officials, like UT Congressman Cannnon who stated “We love immigration in Utah....And we don’t oftentimes make the distinction between legal and illegal.”

“We, the people” have had the wool pulled over our eyes in at least a couple of ways which have blinded many to what is really going on. The mainstream media has minimized publicity of the persecutions of border patrol personnel who have tried to do their job, and of false testimony used to convict border agents and permit known smugglers and coyotes to skate free, sometimes with cash in their pockets for their “inconveniences”. In addition, many Americans have been led to believe that kindness includes bringing oppressed and impoverished people into the U.S.A., regardless of how much they burden Americans with lower wage scales, overwhelm our medical and social welfare systems, disrupt our country’s social fabric, and increase our national debt.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

Indeed Lundy. Its called the rule of law. How far can it be bent before it splits in 2?

[patriotsaintcaptain of 1,000]

And what of my proposals? You didn't answer any of my questions.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I assume the question “... but since you know deportation will not happen (it is logistically impossible) what can we do to better the situation we have been given to deal with?” is directed to me, and that “ the situation we have been given to deal with” is continued illegal immigration, continuing push for amnesty leading to citizenship for those illegals now in country and expected to be coming in, and mounting opposition to legal efforts to apprehend and deport illegals.

In this particular battle (one of several raging in our country), which for now I believe is a losing battle, I do the following as best I can:

1.) I look for and take opportunities to awaken others to our “awful situation” in general and to the conspiracy that I see pushing the US under a socialist or fascist world government. I try to explain that I believe that this massive immigration from Mexico and points South is one part of a plot to destroy the economy and culture of the United States to an extent that Americans will presumably accept the planned socialist or fascist government, with loss of national sovereignty and many personal liberties.

2.) I have reported to police the residence of persons I felt sure were illegal immigrants.

3.) I support in person and in other ways the efforts of Maricopa County (AZ) Sheriff Joe Arpaio to continue apprehension of illegals in spite of threats of interference by our FedGov.

4.) I have advised the branch president of the Hispanic Branch in our stake that I will report any member(s) whom I determine to be an illegal immigrant.

This may seem like a futile effort. In a sense, it is. I heard an Apostle, Elder Eyring, state in late 2006 that the First Presidency determined that this is something “we are going to have to live with”. Nevertheless, I bother with this because I believe my efforts are awakening others, including the occasional “illegal hugger” to what is really behind the support of illegal immigration by recent U.S. Presidents, many in Congress, and others. Hopefully, as more and more people awaken to what is happening, they will take preparedness more seriously and they will participate in activities to retard the progress of the NAU and the NWO, and be able to contribute to the restoration of constitutional principles after the “cleansing”.

And BTW, I do not consider deportation of illegals logistically impossible. Proper and adequate enforcement of employment laws would go a long way toward driving out illegals. A concerted and honest effort by law enforcement agencies would also be effective.

[patriotsaintcaptain of 1,000]

I see you avoided discussing the points I had brought up as a possible solution.


Deporting everyone here illegally is not going to happen. As you've noted, the First Presidency has basically acknowledged this, so why not try to find a workable solution?

Your posistion that deportation must be the only solution seems a little silly to me. It's like saying that because we can't convert every last person on the planet, we should just stop doing missionary work.

Can we not agree that sealing the border is the first step to finding a solution? After all, what good does it do you to call the police on illegal immigrants if they can just cross the border again tomorrow?

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I simply stated the actions I have taken and continue to take.

Deportation is no sillier to me than is arresting and locking up other proven criminals.

I've only been down to the border (in Douglas, AZ and twice in Nogales) 3 times, so I cannot list that as one of my own actions. But I am in favour of not only our military forces being there instead of in Iraq and A'stan, but also arresting and prosecuting those Americans and others who interfere with border patrols and attempt to guide and otherwise assist illegal entrants.

I do not take Elder Eyring's statement as a commandment for me to back off in my efforts to rid this country of illegals.

As long as my efforts are awakening others, including the occasional “illegal hugger” to what is really behind the support of illegal immigration by recent U.S. Presidents, many in Congress, and others, I consider my efforts productive. But then, I was "silly" enough to campaign for and vote for Constitution Party candidates (including myself) lst year, knowing fullwell we didn't stand a prayers chance in a barroom of being elected. But it turned a lot heads, which is what I hoped for.

[patriotsaintcaptain of 1,000]

I never once suggested that Elder Eyring's statement should be taken as a command. I pointed out that since prophets are acknowledging that illegal immigrants are here to stay, why not find a reasonable solution to the problem of illegal immigration?

I'm all for protecting and sealing our borders. That is the first logical step. Dealing with those already here however, is a much more difficult problem. They must be viewed as people and not "aliens". We can't simply toss them all on a bus and drop them off. Those that think the problem is this simple are fooling themselves.

Anyway, good luck in your war against all illegals and "illegal huggers" as you term them. Just remember that with what judgement you judge........you shall be judged. It's probably better for all of us to err on the side of mercy don't you think? Especially knowing that we are all beggars who rely on the same Being for mercy as King Benjamin taught.