Trump = Traitor, Part 2

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freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by freedomforall »

eddie wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
eddie wrote:I think you did mention it. :)
Gee, eddie, it's absolutely stupefying to learn that some people on this forum have such high levels of clairvoyance capability. Why Trump has been accused, indicted and executed before even assuming office. This is some talent, wouldn't you agree?
I agree whole heartedly! Did you know that we don't believe in clairvoyance captivity?
Like a cird in a bage? I don't think they like tapcivity. Therefore, they need the bapacility to get out. eot nasy to do having no vlaircoyance.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/30 ... cks-reveal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What Trump's Cabinet picks reveal

As Donald Trump fills out his Cabinet, a few things are becoming clear: He loves generals, he prizes loyalty, and he especially values the loyalty of those who funded his presidential campaign.

Trump has so far chosen four major donors or fundraisers to join his Cabinet. With just over half of the jobs filled, he already has more high-end campaign donors in his Cabinet than either President Obama or President George W. Bush did when taking office.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

Today's special announcement for the Trumpsters who are still in that river in Africa...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-0 ... ic-advisor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gary_Gadianton_Cohn.jpg
Gary_Gadianton_Cohn.jpg (4.68 KiB) Viewed 3259 times
Do you like the smug look on his face? That's the face he makes when he thinks about stealing more wealth from Americans.

The article:
It appears that vampire squids are quite adaptable to living inside the swamp that Trump promised to be draining.

Following the appointment of former Goldman partner Mnuchin as Treasury Secretary, NBC News reports that Goldman Sachs President and COO Gary Cohn has been selected as National Economic Council Director.

Donald Trump has offered Goldman Sachs executive Gary Cohn a key economic post, which would add another of the firm's veterans to the administration, sources close to Cohn told NBC News.

Goldman Sachs President, COO Gary Cohn has confirmed President-elect Trump offered him post of National Economic Council Director and assistant to president for economic policy, NBC News said, citing sources.

As in the case of Hank Paulson, the question is whether this appointment enables Cohn to dump his massively overbought $210 million worth of Goldman stock tax-free? If so, Cohn just saved over $80 million on taxes just by becoming officially a part of the US administration, instead of merely running the country from the shadows.

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by eddie »

Image

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

eddie wrote:Image
Well, it appears that smugness is contagious among Gadiantons.

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by eddie »

Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:Image
Well, it appears that smugness is contagious among Gadiantons.
I've been reading in 3rd Nephi today, I would say you are the Gadianton, or is it Laman or Lemuel, constantly murmuring?

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

eddie wrote:
Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:Image
Well, it appears that smugness is contagious among Gadiantons.
I've been reading in 3rd Nephi today, I would say you are the Gadianton, or is it Laman or Lemuel, constantly murmuring?
Do you mean that, eddie? Do you really think that I'm a Gadianton? Or that I am trying to harm others like Laman and Lemuel?

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

Trump's Bait And Switch?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-0 ... and-switch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Given his cabinet picks so far, it’s reasonable to assume that The Donald finds hanging out with anyone who isn’t a billionaire (or at least a multimillionaire) a drag. What would there be to talk about if you left the Machiavellian class and its exploits for the company of the sort of normal folk you can rouse at a rally? It’s been a month since the election and here’s what’s clear: crony capitalism, the kind that festers and grows when offered public support in its search for private profits, is the order of the day among Donald Trump’s cabinet picks. Forget his own “conflicts of interest.” Whatever financial, tax, and other policies his administration puts in place, most of his appointees are going to profit like mad from them and, in the end, Trump might not even wind up being the richest member of the crew.

Only a month has passed since November 8th, but it’s already clear (not that it wasn’t before) that Trump’s anti-establishment campaign rhetoric was the biggest scam of his career, one he pulled off perfectly. As president-elect and the country’s next CEO-in-chief, he’s now doing what many presidents have done: doling out power to like-minded friends and associates, loyalists, and -- think John F. Kennedy, for instance -- possibly family.

Here, however, is a major historical difference: the magnitude of Trump’s cronyism is off the charts, even for Washington. Of course, he’s never been a man known for doing small and humble. So his cabinet, as yet incomplete, is already the richest one ever. Estimates of how loaded it will be are almost meaningless at this point, given that we don’t even know Trump’s true wealth (and will likely never see his tax returns). Still, with more billionaires at the doorstep, estimates of the wealth of his new cabinet members and of the president-elect range from my own guesstimate of about $12 billion up to $35 billion. Though the process is as yet incomplete, this already reflects at least a quadrupling of the wealth represented by Barack Obama’s cabinet.

Trump’s version of a political and financial establishment, just forming, will be bound together by certain behavioral patterns born of relationships among those of similar status, background, social position, legacy connections, and an assumed allegiance to a dogma of self-aggrandizement that overshadows everything else. In the realm of politico-financial power and in Trump’s experience and ideology, the one with the most toys always wins. So it’s hardly a surprise that his money- and power-centric cabinet won’t be focused on public service or patriotism or civic duty, but on the consolidation of corporate and private gain at the expense of the citizenry.

It’s already obvious that, to Trump, “draining the swamp” means filling it with new layers of golden sludge, similar in color to the decorations that adorn buildings with his name, including the new Trump International Hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue near the White House where foreign diplomats are already flocking to curry favor and even the toilet paper holders in the lobby bathrooms are faux-gold-plated.

The rarified world of his cabinet choices is certainly a universe away from the struggling working class folks he bamboozled with promises of bringing back American “greatness.” And yet the soaring value of his cabinet should be seen as merely a departure point for our four-year (or more) leap into what is guaranteed to be an abyss of inequality and instability. Forget their wealth. What their business conflicts, relationships, and ideological stances indicate about what they’ll do to America is far more worrisome. And though Trump promised (and tweeted) that he’d be “completely out of business operations,” the possibility of such a full exit for him (or any of his crew) is about as likely as a full reveal of those tax returns.

Trumping History
There is, in fact, some historical precedent for a president surrounding himself with such a group of self-interested power-grabbers, but you’d have to return to Warren G. Harding’s administration in the early 1920s to find it. The “Roaring Twenties” that ended explosively in a stock market collapse in 1929 began, ominously enough, with a presidency filled with similar figures, as well as policies remarkably similar to those now being promised under Trump, including major tax cuts and giveaways for corporations and the deregulation of Wall Street.

A notably weak figure, Harding liberally delegated policymaking to the group of senior Republicans he chose to oversee his administration who were dubbed “the Ohio gang” (though they were not all from Ohio). Scandal soon followed, above all the notorious Teapot Dome incident in which Secretary of the Interior Albert Fall leased petroleum reserves owned by the Navy in Wyoming and California to two private oil companies without competitive bidding, receiving millions of dollars in kickbacks in return. That scandal and the attention it received darkened Harding’s administration. Until the Enron scandal of 2001-2002, it would serve as the poster child for money (and oil) in politics gone bad. Given Donald Trump’s predisposition for green-lighting pipelines and promoting fossil fuel development, a modern reenactment of Teapot Dome is hardly beyond imagining.

Harding’s other main contributions to American history involved two choices he made. He offered businessman Herbert Hoover the job of secretary of commerce and so put him in play to become president in the years just preceding the Great Depression. And in a fashion that now looks Trumpian, he also appointed one of the richest men on Earth, billionaire Andrew Mellon, as his treasury secretary. Mellon, a Pittsburgh industrialist-financier, was head of the Mellon National Bank; he founded both the Aluminum Company of America (Alcoa), for which he’d be accused of unethical behavior while treasury secretary (as he still owned stock in the company and his brother was a close associate), and the Gulf Oil Company; and with Henry Clay Frick, he co-founded the Union Steel Company.

He promptly set to work -- and this will sound familiar today -- cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations. At the same time, he essentially left Wall Street free to concoct the shadowy “trusts” that would use borrowed money to purchase collections of shares in companies and real estate, igniting the 1929 stock market crash. After Mellon, who had served three presidents, left Herbert Hoover’s administration, he fell under investigation for unpaid federal taxes and tax-related conflicts of interest.

Modernizing Warren G.
Within the political-financial establishment, the more things change, the more, it seems, they stay the same. As Trump moves ahead with his cabinet picks, several of them already stand out in a Mellon-esque fashion for their staggering wealth, their legal entanglements, and the policies they seem ready to support that sound like eerie throwbacks to the age of Harding. Of course, you can’t tell the players without a scorecard, so here are the top four of the moment (with more on the way).

Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross (net worth $2.9 billion)

Shades of Andrew Mellon, Ross, a registered Democrat until Trump scooped him up, made his fortune as a corporate vulture (sporting the nickname “the king of bankruptcy”). He was notorious for devouring the carcasses of dying companies, spitting them out, and pocketing the profits. He bought bankrupt steel companies, while moving $6.4 billion of their employee pension benefits to the rescue fund of the government’s Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation so he could make company financials look better. In the early 2000s, his steel industry deals bagged him an impressive $267 million. Stripped of health-care benefits, retired steelworkers at his companies didn’t fare as well.

Trump, of course, has promised the world to the sinking coal industry and out-of-work coal miners. His new commerce secretary, however, owned a coal mine in West Virginia, notoriously cited for hundreds of violations, where 12 miners subsequently died in an explosion.

Ross also made money running Rothschild Inc.’s bankruptcy-restructuring group for nearly two-and-a-half decades. A member (and once leader) of a secret Wall Street fraternity, Kappa Beta Phi, in 2014 he remarked that “the one percent is being picked on for political reasons.” He has an art collection valued conservatively at $150 million, or 3,000 times the average American’s income of $51,000. In addition, he happens to own a Florida estate only miles down the road from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago private club.

While Trump has lambasted China for stealing American jobs, Ross (like Trump) has made money from China. In 2010, one of that country’s state-owned enterprises, China Investment Corporation, put $500 million in Ross’s private equity fund, WL Ross & Company. Ross has not disclosed whether these investments remain in his fund, though he told the New York Post that if Trump believes there are conflicts of interest among any of his investments, he would divest himself of them. In August 2016, his company had to pay a $2.3 million fine to the Securities and Exchange Commission to settle charges for not properly disclosing $10.4 million in management fees charged to his investors in the decade leading up to 2011.

In October, Ross assured Bloomberg that China will continue to be an investment opportunity. As secretary of commerce, the world will become his personal business venture and boardroom, while U.S. taxpayers will be his funders. He is an ardent crusader for corporate tax cuts (wanting to slash them from 35% to 15%). As head of the commerce department, the man the Economist dubbed “Mr. Protectionism” in 2004 will be in charge of any protectionist policies the administration implements.

Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos (family wealth $5.1 billion)

DeVos, the daughter of a billionaire and daughter-in-law of the cofounder of the multilevel marketing empire Amway, has had no actual experience with public schools. Unlike most of the rest of America (myself included), she never attended a public school, nor have any of her children. (Neither did Trump.) But she and her family have excelled at the arithmetic of campaign contributions. They are estimated to have contributed at least $200 million to shaping the conservative movement and various right-wing causes over the last half-century. As she wrote in the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call in 1997, “My family is the biggest contributor of soft money to the Republican National Committee.” That trend only continued in the years that followed. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, since 1989 she and her relatives have given at least $20.2 million to Republican candidates, party committees, PACs, and super PACs.

The center further noted that, “Betsy herself, along with her husband, Dick DeVos, Jr., has contributed more than $7.7 million to federal candidates, committees, and parties since 1990, including almost $4.8 million to super PACs.” Her brother, ex-Navy SEAL Erik Prince, founded the controversial private security contractor Blackwater (now known as Academi). He also made two considerable donations to Make America Number 1, a super PAC that first backed Senator Ted Cruz and then Trump.

So whatever you do, don’t expect Betsy De Vos’s help in allocating additional federal funds to elevate the education of citizens who actually do attend public schools, or rather what Donald Trump now likes to call “failing government schools.” Instead, she’s undoubtedly going to promote privatizing school voucher programs and charter schools across the country and let those failing government schools go down the tubes as part of a Republican war on public education.

Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao (net worth $25 million)

As the daughter of a wealthy shipping magnate, a former labor secretary for George W. Bush, and the wife of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Chao’s establishment connections are overwhelming. They include board positions at Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp and at Wells Fargo Bank. While Chao was on its board, Wells Fargo scammed its customers to the tune of $2.4 million, and incurred billions of dollars of fines for other crimes. She was silent when its former CEO John Stumpf resigned in a blaze of contriteness.

In 2008, Chao ranked 8th in Bush’s executive branch in terms of net worth at $16.9 million. In 2009, Politico reported that, in memory of her mother who passed away in 2007, she and her husband received a “personal gift” from the Chao family worth between $5 million and $25 million. In 2014, the Center for Responsive Politics ranked McConnell, with an estimated net worth somewhere around $22 million, as the 11th richest senator. As with all things wealth related, the truth is a moving target but the one thing Chao’s not (which may make her a rarity in this cabinet) is a billionaire.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin (net worth between $46 million and $1 billion)

Hedge fund mogul and Hollywood producer Steven Mnuchin is the third installment on Goldman Sachs’s claim to own the position of Treasury secretary. In fact, when it comes to the stewardship of the country’s economy, Goldman continues to reign supreme. Bill Clinton appointed the company’s former co-chairman Robert Rubin to Treasury in gratitude for his ability to bestow on him Wall Street cred and the contributions that went with it. George W. Bush appointed former Goldman Sachs Chairman and CEO Hank Paulson as his final Treasury secretary, just in time for the “too big to fail” economic meltdown of 2007-2008.

Now, Trump, who swore he’d drain “the swamp” in Washington, is carrying on the tradition. The difference? While Rubin and Paulson pushed for the deregulation of the financial industry that led to the Great Recession and then used federal funds to bail out their friends, Mnuchin, who spent 17 years with Goldman Sachs, eventually made an even bigger fortune by being on the predatory receiving end of federal support while scarfing up a failed bank.

In 2008, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), formed in 1934 to insure the deposits of citizens at commercial banks, closed 25 banks, including the Pasadena-based IndyMac Bank. In early January 2009, the FDIC agreed to sell failed lender IndyMac to IMB HoldCo LLC, a company owned by a pack of private equity investors led by former Goldman Sachs partner Mnuchin of Dune Capital Management LP for about $13.9 billion. (They only had to put up $1.3 billion in cash for it, however.)

When the deal closed on March 19, 2009, IMB formed a new federally chartered savings bank, OneWest Bank (also run by Mnuchin), to complete the purchase. The FDIC took a $10.7 billion loss in the process. OneWest then set about foreclosing on IndyMac’s properties, the cost of which was fronted by the FDIC, as was most of the loss that was incurred from hemorrhaging mortgages. In other words, the government backed Mnuchin’s private deal big time and so helped give him his nickname, the “foreclosure king,” as he became an even wealthier man.

By October 2011, protesters were marching outside Mnuchin’s Los Angeles mansion with “Stop taking our homes” signs. OneWest soon became mired in lawsuits and on multiple occasions settled for millions of dollars. Nonetheless, Mnuchin sold the bank for a cool $3.4 billion in August 2015. Shades of the president-elect, he also left another beleaguered company, Relativity Media, where he had been co-chairman, two months before it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2015.

Mnuchin’s policy priorities include an overhaul of the federal tax code (aimed mainly at helping his elite buddies), financial deregulation (including making the Dodd-Frank Act of 2010 significantly more lenient for hedge funds), and a review of existing trade agreements. He has indicated no support for reinstating the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which separated commercial banks that held citizens’ deposits and loans from the speculative practices of investment banks until it was repealed in 1999 under the Clinton administration.

Gilded Government
Hillary Clinton certainly cashed in big time on her Wall Street connections during her career and her presidential campaign. And yet her approach already seems modest compared to Trump’s new open-door policy to any billionaire willing to come on board his ship. His new incarnation of the old establishment largely consists of billionaires and multimillionaires with less than appetizing nicknames from their previous predatory careers. They favor government support for their private gain as well as deregulation, several of them having already specialized in making money off the collateral damage from such policies.

Trump offered Americans this promise: "I'm going to surround myself only with the best and most serious people." In his world, best means rich, and serious means seriously shielded from the way much of the rest of the country lives. Once upon a time, I, too, worked for Goldman Sachs. I left in 2002, the same year that Steven Mnuchin did. I did not go on to construct deals that hurt citizens. He did. Public spirit is a choice.

Aspiring to run government as a business (something President Calvin Coolidge tried out in the 1920s with dismal results for America), Trump is now surrounding himself with a crew of crony capitalists who understand boardroom speak, but have nothing in common with most Americans. So give him credit: his administration is already one of the great political bait-and-switch productions in our history and it hasn’t even begun. Count on one thing: in his presidency he’ll only double down on that “promise.”

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by eddie »

Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:
Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:Image
Well, it appears that smugness is contagious among Gadiantons.
I've been reading in 3rd Nephi today, I would say you are the Gadianton, or is it Laman or Lemuel, constantly murmuring?
Do you mean that, eddie? Do you really think that I'm a Gadianton? Or that I am trying to harm others like Laman and Lemuel?


Do not mis-quote me, I said murmuring like Laman and Lemuel, not trying to harm. Why don't you give us your definition of a Gadianton.

Trump's cabinet choices are brilliant! I love the guy who is against the EPA! ( can't think of his name right now.) Truly indicating that his anti-establishment policies were not a scam. I guess most of America was bamboozled. :))

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

eddie wrote:
Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:
Silver wrote:
Well, it appears that smugness is contagious among Gadiantons.
I've been reading in 3rd Nephi today, I would say you are the Gadianton, or is it Laman or Lemuel, constantly murmuring?
Do you mean that, eddie? Do you really think that I'm a Gadianton? Or that I am trying to harm others like Laman and Lemuel?


Do not mis-quote me, I said murmuring like Laman and Lemuel, not trying to harm. Why don't you give us your definition of a Gadianton.

Trump's cabinet choices are brilliant! I love the guy who is against the EPA! ( can't think of his name right now.) Truly indicating that his anti-establishment policies were not a scam. I guess most of America was bamboozled. :))
I'm not misquoting you. I am taking statements like yours to their logical conclusion. If I am murmuring and sharing incorrect information then it will eventually harm people who might be persuaded by me. I see things differently than you. Alternatively, you see things differently than me. Could I not just as easily call you a Laman? This I have not done. I am trying to avoid the use of ad hominem and politely request you do the same. I have presented facts about the Trump choices. Refute the facts without attacking me, please.

Here's another way to think about the EPA. Perhaps this will clear things up for you.

Q: The EPA hurts who the most?
A: Small companies who do not have enough resources to commit to the onerous rules and regulations promulgated by the EPA (or any other leviathan bureaucracy of the federal government). It is only the large corporations that can successfully wend their way through the landmines placed by governmental departments either by having their retained attorneys correctly interpret the rules and regs, or by fighting those agencies in court. Even if the corporations lose their legal battles, they have sufficient resources to implement the changes if they must. The large corporations have another advantage still. They can hire regulators out of the government and use them as consultants and lobbyists. Small companies cannot clear those hurdles. The barriers are kept high so the fascist, incestuous nature of our government and its corporate bedfellows will remain undisturbed.

You can rest assured that the EPA is not going away. However, the largest corporations will be less inhibited under a Trump administration. I like liberty, but not liberty just for the wealthy, not liberty bought by those who could afford to give Trump large donations or provide favorable treatment to Trump businesses.

Gadianton = one who combines with others to take away the freedom of all nations and people. Do you really think that poor people are going to do that?

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by eddie »

Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:
Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:
I've been reading in 3rd Nephi today, I would say you are the Gadianton, or is it Laman or Lemuel, constantly murmuring?
Do you mean that, eddie? Do you really think that I'm a Gadianton? Or that I am trying to harm others like Laman and Lemuel?


Do not mis-quote me, I said murmuring like Laman and Lemuel, not trying to harm. Why don't you give us your definition of a Gadianton.

Trump's cabinet choices are brilliant! I love the guy who is against the EPA! ( can't think of his name right now.) Truly indicating that his anti-establishment policies were not a scam. I guess most of America was bamboozled. :))
I'm not misquoting you. I am taking statements like yours to their logical conclusion. If I am murmuring and sharing incorrect information then it will eventually harm people who might be persuaded by me. I see things differently than you. Alternatively, you see things differently than me. Could I not just as easily call you a Laman? This I have not done. I am trying to avoid the use of ad hominem and politely request you do the same. I have presented facts about the Trump choices. Refute the facts without attacking me, please.

Here's another way to think about the EPA. Perhaps this will clear things up for you.

Q: The EPA hurts who the most?
A: Small companies who do not have enough resources to commit to the onerous rules and regulations promulgated by the EPA (or any other leviathan bureaucracy of the federal government). It is only the large corporations that can successfully wend their way through the landmines placed by governmental departments either by having their retained attorneys correctly interpret the rules and regs, or by fighting those agencies in court. Even if the corporations lose their legal battles, they have sufficient resources to implement the changes if they must. The large corporations have another advantage still. They can hire regulators out of the government and use them as consultants and lobbyists. Small companies cannot clear those hurdles. The barriers are kept high so the fascist, incestuous nature of our government and its corporate bedfellows will remain undisturbed.

You can rest assured that the EPA is not going away. However, the largest corporations will be less inhibited under a Trump administration. I like liberty, but not liberty just for the wealthy, not liberty bought by those who could afford to give Trump large donations or provide favorable treatment to Trump businesses.

Gadianton = one who combines with others to take away the freedom of all nations and people. Do you really think that poor people are going to do that?
Logical conclusion? Concerning your Gadianton definition, were the Nephites wealthy people? Did lace sous ( sp) ask them to gather their women and children, their flocks and livestock together in one place? Did they murmur and say he was unrighteousness and not able to lead? Or were they arrogant thinking they knew it all?

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

eddie wrote:
Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:
Silver wrote:
Do you mean that, eddie? Do you really think that I'm a Gadianton? Or that I am trying to harm others like Laman and Lemuel?


Do not mis-quote me, I said murmuring like Laman and Lemuel, not trying to harm. Why don't you give us your definition of a Gadianton.

Trump's cabinet choices are brilliant! I love the guy who is against the EPA! ( can't think of his name right now.) Truly indicating that his anti-establishment policies were not a scam. I guess most of America was bamboozled. :))
I'm not misquoting you. I am taking statements like yours to their logical conclusion. If I am murmuring and sharing incorrect information then it will eventually harm people who might be persuaded by me. I see things differently than you. Alternatively, you see things differently than me. Could I not just as easily call you a Laman? This I have not done. I am trying to avoid the use of ad hominem and politely request you do the same. I have presented facts about the Trump choices. Refute the facts without attacking me, please.

Here's another way to think about the EPA. Perhaps this will clear things up for you.

Q: The EPA hurts who the most?
A: Small companies who do not have enough resources to commit to the onerous rules and regulations promulgated by the EPA (or any other leviathan bureaucracy of the federal government). It is only the large corporations that can successfully wend their way through the landmines placed by governmental departments either by having their retained attorneys correctly interpret the rules and regs, or by fighting those agencies in court. Even if the corporations lose their legal battles, they have sufficient resources to implement the changes if they must. The large corporations have another advantage still. They can hire regulators out of the government and use them as consultants and lobbyists. Small companies cannot clear those hurdles. The barriers are kept high so the fascist, incestuous nature of our government and its corporate bedfellows will remain undisturbed.

You can rest assured that the EPA is not going away. However, the largest corporations will be less inhibited under a Trump administration. I like liberty, but not liberty just for the wealthy, not liberty bought by those who could afford to give Trump large donations or provide favorable treatment to Trump businesses.

Gadianton = one who combines with others to take away the freedom of all nations and people. Do you really think that poor people are going to do that?
Logical conclusion? Concerning your Gadianton definition, were the Nephites wealthy people? Did lace sous ( sp) ask them to gather their women and children, their flocks and livestock together in one place? Did they murmur and say he was unrighteousness and not able to lead? Or were they arrogant thinking they knew it all?
You're arguments are getting shorter and you're finding it impossible to prove me wrong. I have simply shared with everyone here the background of the people Trump is nominating and also reminding us of the nature of government. If you have an Ace in your pocket that will win this debate, why don't you play it?

Did you see that Trump has now nominated the CEO of Exxon to be Secretary of State? Do you know what the definition of fascism is? When large corporations are the hand and government is the glove, you should know you're in trouble.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-1 ... tary-state" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by eddie »

Facism, the opposite of liberalism, marxism and anarchism, it should actually be defined as a swearword.

CEO of Exxon Secretary of State, good choice, much better than Mitt Romney.

As far as having an ace in my pocket, I have already won this debate, you should have folded a long time ago because you gotta
know when to hold em, know when to fold em.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-1 ... ector-role" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the article:
"As reported last week, Trump had offered Goldman Sachs president and COO the job of his top economic advisor, as Director of the National Economic Council Director. Moments ago CNBC reported that, as expected, Cohn has accepted the role.

From CNBC:

Goldman Sachs executive Gary Cohn is expected to accept the directorship of the National Economic Council "at any moment," a source told CNBC on Monday.

President-elect Donald Trump last week offered the key economic advisor position to Cohn, Goldman's 56-year-old president and chief operating officer, sources told NBC News. Cohn has been at Goldman for 25 years and previously worked in commodities.

Cohn taking the post would add to Trump's administration another veteran of the powerful firm he bashed during his campaign. Trump Treasury secretary pick Steven Mnuchin and senior advisor Steve Bannon also worked at Goldman Sachs, which Trump repeatedly attacked on the campaign trail.

He cited Goldman as evidence that corporate and financial interests have influence over politicians and criticized former opponent Sen. Ted Cruz for taking a loan from the firm." (end quote)

In other words, Trump, like other politicians, merely told a desperate voting public what they wanted to hear. When he got elected his elitist ties were immediately revealed. Why can't LDSFFers see that?

User avatar
moonwhim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4251

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by moonwhim »

Silver wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-1 ... ector-role

From the article:
"As reported last week, Trump had offered Goldman Sachs president and COO the job of his top economic advisor, as Director of the National Economic Council Director. Moments ago CNBC reported that, as expected, Cohn has accepted the role.

From CNBC:

Goldman Sachs executive Gary Cohn is expected to accept the directorship of the National Economic Council "at any moment," a source told CNBC on Monday.

President-elect Donald Trump last week offered the key economic advisor position to Cohn, Goldman's 56-year-old president and chief operating officer, sources told NBC News. Cohn has been at Goldman for 25 years and previously worked in commodities.

Cohn taking the post would add to Trump's administration another veteran of the powerful firm he bashed during his campaign. Trump Treasury secretary pick Steven Mnuchin and senior advisor Steve Bannon also worked at Goldman Sachs, which Trump repeatedly attacked on the campaign trail.

He cited Goldman as evidence that corporate and financial interests have influence over politicians and criticized former opponent Sen. Ted Cruz for taking a loan from the firm." (end quote)

In other words, Trump, like other politicians, merely told a desperate voting public what they wanted to hear. When he got elected his elitist ties were immediately revealed. Why can't LDSFFers see that?
So who do you want to replace Trump??

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

moonwhim wrote:
Silver wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-1 ... ector-role

From the article:
"As reported last week, Trump had offered Goldman Sachs president and COO the job of his top economic advisor, as Director of the National Economic Council Director. Moments ago CNBC reported that, as expected, Cohn has accepted the role.

From CNBC:

Goldman Sachs executive Gary Cohn is expected to accept the directorship of the National Economic Council "at any moment," a source told CNBC on Monday.

President-elect Donald Trump last week offered the key economic advisor position to Cohn, Goldman's 56-year-old president and chief operating officer, sources told NBC News. Cohn has been at Goldman for 25 years and previously worked in commodities.

Cohn taking the post would add to Trump's administration another veteran of the powerful firm he bashed during his campaign. Trump Treasury secretary pick Steven Mnuchin and senior advisor Steve Bannon also worked at Goldman Sachs, which Trump repeatedly attacked on the campaign trail.

He cited Goldman as evidence that corporate and financial interests have influence over politicians and criticized former opponent Sen. Ted Cruz for taking a loan from the firm." (end quote)

In other words, Trump, like other politicians, merely told a desperate voting public what they wanted to hear. When he got elected his elitist ties were immediately revealed. Why can't LDSFFers see that?
So who do you want to replace Trump??
I voted for Darrell Castle, Constitution Party.

User avatar
AI2.0
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3917

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by AI2.0 »

Trump's supporters are just like Obama's; they are driven by cult of personality. They're aren't honest, they don't care what he does, they will close their eyes and rationalize any betrayals against them, because HE WAS THEIR GUY!!!! That's why the country is screwed too, because they're the ones he would listen to but they won't complain about his betrayals. Like the battered, betrayed woman who 'stands by her man', they will not allow anyone else to complain about him and they will defend him, no matter what he does. 'He's brilliant!", 'What a great pick!"...never mind that if anyone else had made those picks, they'd have been honest in their concerns, but because it's Trump, they say nothing or rationalize and praise him.

Trump was right, I think he could shoot someone and his followers would not care.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by freedomforall »

AI2.0 wrote:Trump's supporters are just like Obama's; they are driven by cult of personality. They're aren't honest, they don't care what he does, they will close their eyes and rationalize any betrayals against them, because HE WAS THEIR GUY!!!! That's why the country is screwed too, because they're the ones he would listen to but they won't complain about his betrayals. Like the battered, betrayed woman who 'stands by her man', they will not allow anyone else to complain about him and they will defend him, no matter what he does. 'He's brilliant!", 'What a great pick!"...never mind that if anyone else had made those picks, they'd have been honest in their concerns, but because it's Trump, they say nothing or rationalize and praise him.

Trump was right, I think he could shoot someone and his followers would not care.
It really amazes me that you know the hearts of every Trump supporter. It's like you saying "I see green" but leaving out the fact that there are many shades of green. This means that you only see one shade of green...and assume that if Trump supporters can't see the same shade you do all the time they must be loony or have no common sense, reasoning power or ability to analyze, even to the extent of comparing Trump supporters to Obama's. This comment is cold and calculating, supposition and conjecture...at best. It is judgemental too.

Don't you think that many members of the church did according to the letter sent out to all wards?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First Presidency 2016 Letter Encouraging Political Participation, Voting in US

The following letter was issued by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 5, 2016, to be read to Church congregations throughout the United States:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church

As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at http://www.MormonNewsroom.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,

Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many people may have done the best they could in hoping Trump would not alter his platform as President. None of us are clairvoyant.

Maybe you're not aware that President Benson said that the Constitution would not be saved in Washington...so what does it matter as to who takes office there? Actually, that statement may have removed a lot of initiative in picking the perfect candidate.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-1 ... rump-train" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I’m afraid the Trump train is headed for a sharp economic curve that takes us further away from free-market capitalism. The US already pulled out of the free-market station a long time ago, but Trumponomics moves deeply into a “mixed economy,” an economy in which government funding and private funding are married. The bankster-baron confederation in the Trump cabinet is how business and government consumate their marriage.
My pervious article about Trump’s cabinet lineup demonstrated a major economic shift forming in the presidential cabinet. This article explains what that shift means.

How Trumponomics may radically change the US economy

In Trumponomics, this is worked out by placing corporate giants in direct control over all the reins of government in order to make sure that government is compliant to corporate interests as an effective way of boosting the economy. Trump has stated that most of his infrastructure spending will come from private enterprise, and this confederation assures government funding and business funding align.

While this union empowers rapid economic growth, the downside to Trumponomics is that a mixed economy easily sidetracks from its stimulus intentions to becoming the ultimate form of crony capitalism because government and industry become such intimate partners in development that you cannot tell where one begins and the other really ends. That entices a flow of money from public to private interests. The state risks becoming the weaker partner in this arrangement — a mere servant of corporate needs and wants — because those running the state have their former institutions, lifelong friends and their pocket books at heart.

Purportedly, Trumponomics is for the economic betterment of the entire nation, which is accelerated by combining the strength of state and business as a team in a unified direction. (It worked well for Germany after World War I.) I believe the Donald intends it for the best; but another downside is that Government — instead of having purely regulatory roles (congress and the executive branch) and the judicial role — effectively subsidizes certain businesses in creating the projects that government wants to accomplish.

Trump is proposing that government may, for example, pay half the cost of building a bridge while a private contractor pays the other half in exchange for owning the right to collect a toll at the bridge forever. A bridge can support a toll that will be profitable up to a certain cost of construction. Above that cost, no one will pay the toll. So, the government kicks in the full cost above what industry sees as leaving room for an acceptable margin of profit. Government also helps clear the hurdles for construction. That gets a lot more things done quickly, but at what risks?

Trumponomics is a plan for petal-to-the-metal growth; but it leaves no one regulating businesses when business executives are placed in charge of all the regulatory agencies. Another pitfall is that government, instead of simply assuring a level playing field for all businesses, can slip into favoritism toward businesses that are highly regarded by the corporate executives who assume the government reins of power.

Granted, the US hasn’t had a truly free market for decades. The Fed, which is corporately owned, already rigs the economy constantly by enticing banks to soak up government debt at practically no interest with its promises of buying the debt back from its member banks and by creating money that it gives freely to banks to invest in stocks.

Trump, however, is moving the country further in the direction of a mixed economy. Instead of state ownership of the economy (communism), it is corporate ownership of the state by corporate control of state offices, potentially directing them to the opposite end from what those offices were originally created for as regulatory bodies.

I’m not saying corporate leaders should never hold cabinet positions, but when the cabinet is stacked almost entirely in the direction of Trump placing his corporate cronies in power, it looks very problematic, whether they are truly cronies (as in friends) or just a clutch of high-power corporate colleagues.

The early surprise effects of Trumponomics

Trump is already boosting the economy, and he hasn’t even assumed office. His Wall-Street cabinet lineup and his enormous corporate tax gifts (See “Trump: Titan of Corporate Tax Cuts” and “Trump Tax Plan Turns the Donald into Trickle-Down King.”) coupled to his promise that the government will take out huge sums of debt to buy projects from corporate tycoons have all certainly goosed stock-market expectations. Investors now run long with hopes that Trump’s plans will further inflate the stock market bubble to all-time weather-balloon heights.

Given how Trump railed against Wall Street in his campaign, it is ironic that Trumponomics has proven most outstanding for Wall Street where bank stocks have risen more than any other sector. Leading the leaders of the pack, Goldman Sachs has absolutely skyrocketed, up a massive 33% since Trump won the election earlier this month:

The financial sector has taken off since the election, on the assumption that a Republican administration will foster a much more lenient regulatory environment than has been in place since the financial crisis…. In particular, Goldman Sachs — a previous employer of several key Trump advisers — has been on a tear…. Indeed, according to legendary trader Art Cashin, about one-third of the postelection increase in the Dow Jones Industrial Average came directly from Goldman Sachs’ performance. (Business Insider)


Three of Trump’s key team members are former Goldman Sachs executives. Several others come from or own other major banks. To be sure, the Trump cabinet looks like a cabal of the world’s biggest bankers. It looks like a group you might find in Davos.

This all builds a massive amount of steam to power economic growth (and, for that reason, it may be hard for Democrats to totally resist when confirmation time arrives, though they have manifold other reasons to object); but where does the Trump train end up?

To what extent will the corporate interests that now saturate the Trump cabinet come to own government and use its potent economic fuel to power their own engines? Such massive economic changes certainly have the power to change my predicted 2016 schedule for the Epocalypse, made before anyone knew Trump would be the engineer of the nation’s new economic train — vastly different from Obama’s sputtering economy.

That would be good, except I think the Trumponomics train arrives at the same station only with much more momentum as we power headlong into much greater government debt, crewed by a cabinet rife with conflicts of interest and enticements toward self-serving corporate corruption. We are either counting on the sterling reputation of the nation’s biggest bankers and oil barons to resist temptation or on Trump’s mighty ability to keep this rambunctious train on the rails and out of the swamps of corruption while running the locomotive at a head pressure greater than the engine’s normal operating capacity.

Will we say at the end, “How the mighty have fallen?”

Trumponomics ends in a train wreck? (Photo credited to the firm Levy & fils by this site. (It is credited to a photographer "Kuhn" by another publisher [1].) (the source was not disclosed by its uploader.) [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons)
Trumponomics ends in a train wreck if it doesn’t end before it even begins.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by freedomforall »

Video of Obama Making Fun of Trump Backfires
Trump has saved jobs already. A very good sign of a traitor, right?

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

freedomforall wrote:Video of Obama Making Fun of Trump Backfires

Trump has saved jobs already. A very good sign of a traitor, right?
Being at leisure for a few minutes, I'll play along. At what cost did he "save" jobs?

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by eddie »

Without Illegal Vote Tally Trump Would Have Won Popular Vote in a Landslide – Get Over It Snowflakes

Jim Hoft Nov 24th, 2016 8:47 am 296 Comments

Guest post by Joe Hoft

trump-win
Results to date from the 2016 Presidential election show an even larger Trump landslide over Hillary Clinton than originally reported.

Current data shows Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton in Electoral College votes, states won and even the popular vote when considering the vast amount of voter fraud.

election-totals-11-24
It has been widely reported that there were more than 3 million votes cast by illegal aliens and most, if not all these votes, were cast for Hillary Clinton. When accounting for these votes, Trump beat Clinton by more than 1 million in the popular vote.

Trump destroyed Clinton in the Electoral College votes 306 to 232 or 57% to 43%.

Trump also won more than 30 states with his win of 1 of four delegates in Maine. Trump ended up with 30.25 state wins to Hillary’s 19.75 wins. Hillary didn’t even win 20 states and Trump beat her 61% to 39% in state wins.

Also, Trump won 84% of the US’s 3,083 counties – this was truly a Trump landslide win in all areas.

Too bad Snowflakes – you and your terrible candidate got crushed!

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by Silver »

eddie wrote:Without Illegal Vote Tally Trump Would Have Won Popular Vote in a Landslide – Get Over It Snowflakes

Jim Hoft Nov 24th, 2016 8:47 am 296 Comments

Guest post by Joe Hoft

trump-win
Results to date from the 2016 Presidential election show an even larger Trump landslide over Hillary Clinton than originally reported.

Current data shows Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton in Electoral College votes, states won and even the popular vote when considering the vast amount of voter fraud.

election-totals-11-24
It has been widely reported that there were more than 3 million votes cast by illegal aliens and most, if not all these votes, were cast for Hillary Clinton. When accounting for these votes, Trump beat Clinton by more than 1 million in the popular vote.

Trump destroyed Clinton in the Electoral College votes 306 to 232 or 57% to 43%.

Trump also won more than 30 states with his win of 1 of four delegates in Maine. Trump ended up with 30.25 state wins to Hillary’s 19.75 wins. Hillary didn’t even win 20 states and Trump beat her 61% to 39% in state wins.

Also, Trump won 84% of the US’s 3,083 counties – this was truly a Trump landslide win in all areas.

Too bad Snowflakes – you and your terrible candidate got crushed!
eddie,
Haven't you noticed that there is nobody on this thread who supports Hillary? Once more, because you must have missed it, I voted for Darrell Castle. Does it make you feel good to use ad hominem attacks in a discussion about political candidates?

I bet if you looked hard enough you could find an anti-Hillary thread where your political commentary would be more appreciated.

GradyKeyser
captain of 100
Posts: 235

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by GradyKeyser »

freedomforall wrote:
AI2.0 wrote:Trump's supporters are just like Obama's; they are driven by cult of personality. They're aren't honest, they don't care what he does, they will close their eyes and rationalize any betrayals against them, because HE WAS THEIR GUY!!!! That's why the country is screwed too, because they're the ones he would listen to but they won't complain about his betrayals. Like the battered, betrayed woman who 'stands by her man', they will not allow anyone else to complain about him and they will defend him, no matter what he does. 'He's brilliant!", 'What a great pick!"...never mind that if anyone else had made those picks, they'd have been honest in their concerns, but because it's Trump, they say nothing or rationalize and praise him.

Trump was right, I think he could shoot someone and his followers would not care.
It really amazes me that you know the hearts of every Trump supporter. It's like you saying "I see green" but leaving out the fact that there are many shades of green. This means that you only see one shade of green...and assume that if Trump supporters can't see the same shade you do all the time they must be loony or have no common sense, reasoning power or ability to analyze, even to the extent of comparing Trump supporters to Obama's. This comment is cold and calculating, supposition and conjecture...at best. It is judgemental too.

Don't you think that many members of the church did according to the letter sent out to all wards?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First Presidency 2016 Letter Encouraging Political Participation, Voting in US

The following letter was issued by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 5, 2016, to be read to Church congregations throughout the United States:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church

As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at http://www.MormonNewsroom.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,

Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many people may have done the best they could in hoping Trump would not alter his platform as President. None of us are clairvoyant.

Maybe you're not aware that President Benson said that the Constitution would not be saved in Washington...so what does it matter as to who takes office there? Actually, that statement may have removed a lot of initiative in picking the perfect candidate.
It is very revealing how the misinformed and those in denial always accuse others of being judgmental, it is never the other way around. We must make constant judgment always separating good from evil, but in order to do this we must stand on our own two feet trusting no one but God.

The Church's stand on political neutrality was a Pandora's Box that has taken us into the pit. Politics must be mixed with religion in CHURCH. In our religious setting we must stand one in politics. Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine. Doctrine and Covenants 38:27

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump = Traitor, Part 2

Post by eddie »

Silver wrote:
eddie wrote:Without Illegal Vote Tally Trump Would Have Won Popular Vote in a Landslide – Get Over It Snowflakes

Jim Hoft Nov 24th, 2016 8:47 am 296 Comments

Guest post by Joe Hoft

trump-win
Results to date from the 2016 Presidential election show an even larger Trump landslide over Hillary Clinton than originally reported.

Current data shows Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton in Electoral College votes, states won and even the popular vote when considering the vast amount of voter fraud.

election-totals-11-24
It has been widely reported that there were more than 3 million votes cast by illegal aliens and most, if not all these votes, were cast for Hillary Clinton. When accounting for these votes, Trump beat Clinton by more than 1 million in the popular vote.

Trump destroyed Clinton in the Electoral College votes 306 to 232 or 57% to 43%.

Trump also won more than 30 states with his win of 1 of four delegates in Maine. Trump ended up with 30.25 state wins to Hillary’s 19.75 wins. Hillary didn’t even win 20 states and Trump beat her 61% to 39% in state wins.

Also, Trump won 84% of the US’s 3,083 counties – this was truly a Trump landslide win in all areas.

Too bad Snowflakes – you and your terrible candidate got crushed!
eddie,
Haven't you noticed that there is nobody on this thread who supports Hillary? Once more, because you must have missed it, I voted for Darrell Castle. Does it make you feel good to use ad hominem attacks in a discussion about political candidates?


I bet if you looked hard enough you could find an anti-Hillary thread where your political commentary would be more appreciated.
Silver, haven't you noticed that Trump won 84% of the US's 3,083 counties, and more than 30 states? #-o

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