#Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

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Benjamin_LK
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Benjamin_LK »

All it will take is blowing the secessionist capitols and military bases to bits to win a civil war nowadays. This is not the 1800s anymore. You have a bunch of sore losers that are the cancer to this nation by not accepting the fact that California doesn't automatically dictate everybody due to the electoral college.

Benjamin_LK
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Benjamin_LK »

All it will take is blowing the secessionist capitols and military bases to bits to win a civil war nowadays. This is not the 1800s anymore. You have a bunch of sore losers that are the cancer to this nation by not accepting the fact that California doesn't automatically dictate everybody due to the electoral college.

Benjamin_LK
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Benjamin_LK »

All it will take is blowing the secessionist capitols and military bases to bits to win a civil war nowadays. This is not the 1800s anymore. You have a bunch of sore losers that are the cancer to this nation by not accepting the fact that California doesn't automatically dictate everybody due to the electoral college.

Sasquatch
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Sasquatch »

gkearney wrote:Not likely at all but consider what would happen if they did. First they would likely pull out Oregon and Washington with them as they go. This means the United State would loose its whole west coast and with it direct access to the Pacific Ocean. So you would loose not only the major ports of LA, Long Beach, Oakland, San Fransisco, Portland and Seattle but the major naval installations at San Diego, Alameda, and Bangor, Washington as well. So we are really going to walk away from those kind of resources? I really doubt it.
I highly doubt OR and WA would want to leave with California. In fact, northern California (the counties within the proposed state of Jefferson) is likely to leave California in the case of secession.

carbon dioxide
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by carbon dioxide »

California is already well on its way to being a foreign country. There is noting in the Constitution that requires 50 states and I see no reason why a state can't vote to leave. If it did leave, millions would flee to the rest of the states and California would eventually be called "North Mexico".

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David13
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by David13 »

carbon dioxide wrote:California is already well on its way to being a foreign country. There is noting in the Constitution that requires 50 states and I see no reason why a state can't vote to leave. If it did leave, millions would flee to the rest of the states and California would eventually be called "North Mexico".

No. it currently is known as the Peoples Republic of Kalifornistan. Patterned after Chairman Mao's Great Example.
dc

Silver
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Silver »

Benjamin_LK wrote:All it will take is blowing the secessionist capitols and military bases to bits to win a civil war nowadays. This is not the 1800s anymore. You have a bunch of sore losers that are the cancer to this nation by not accepting the fact that California doesn't automatically dictate everybody due to the electoral college.
You can say that again.

Serragon
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Serragon »

ajax wrote:I don't see why not. There are many examples of independent city states in history.
I suspect the same people who wish to secede would be unwilling to allow counties the same option.

I lived in an urban center for 20+ years and now live in an extreme rural area. There have been multiple movements to secede to a neighboring state. There have also been movements in the urban areas to carve out new counties that better represent the culture of those who live there.

Both have been met with derision by those in power.

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skmo
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by skmo »

carbon dioxide wrote:There is noting in the Constitution that requires 50 states and I see no reason why a state can't vote to leave.
Supreme Court ruling on Texas V. White

Until it is challenged again , the issue is settled by Texas v. White which occurred after the Civil War.

"The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States."

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skmo
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by skmo »

Sasquatch wrote:I highly doubt OR and WA would want to leave with California. In fact, northern California (the counties within the proposed state of Jefferson) is likely to leave California in the case of secession.
Once you get far enough North to be free of the stench of putrefaction from San Fran, Much of Cali is very conservative. In fact, if the Metro L.A. and SanFran areas were removed, Cali would never have a Dem majority overall ever again.

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BringerOfJoy
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by BringerOfJoy »

California, please take Vegas with you when you go. The rest of Nevada would be thrilled, but they'd probably have to add an income tax to make up for the lost gambling revenues.

Merriner
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Merriner »

They founders left us a government that should have allowed every State to be its own experiment of Freedom. The Constituition and Declatration of Independence set the framework. States are Sovereign. Sovereignty means Supreme. The Federal Government is not sovereign, but is meant to be limited. The Constitution is the fireplace and the government is the fire. We the people need to hold our representatives responsible and keep the fire in the fireplace. The states don't share Sovereignty with the Federal Government. Sovereignty is like being pregnant. You cant share a pregnancy.

Each State had its citizens rights protected under the Constitution, but each State was to be its own experiment of freedom. Imagine if we had retained a limited Federal Government with 50 experiments of freedom in a constitutional republic. The states with the greatest prosperity and success and happiness would immediately begin to be emulated by other states and we would have continued to become more free and prosperous. Of course the Book of Mormon warns us what happens when we prosper too much and become prideful. It is a very fragile balance. Liberty is precious and comes at a great cost.

We cannot allow ourselves to go to sleep and let these threats to freedom gain so much control over us. Winning the election is just the beginning, but will we be able to stand our ground against the onslought that will come from the centers of power.

Merriner
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Merriner »

skmo wrote:
Sasquatch wrote:I highly doubt OR and WA would want to leave with California. In fact, northern California (the counties within the proposed state of Jefferson) is likely to leave California in the case of secession.
Once you get far enough North to be free of the stench of putrefaction from San Fran, Much of Cali is very conservative. In fact, if the Metro L.A. and SanFran areas were removed, Cali would never have a Dem majority overall ever again.

Yes, San Franpsycho or San Fran-sick-o. To quote Savage.

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creator
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by creator »

The secession of California would be great for this country.

It's crazy that they are 400 Billion in debt! (more proof socialism doesn't work).

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creator
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by creator »

Merriner wrote:They founders left us a government that should have allowed every State to be its own experiment of Freedom. The Constituition and Declatration of Independence set the framework. States are Sovereign. Sovereignty means Supreme. The Federal Government is not sovereign, but is meant to be limited. The Constitution is the fireplace and the government is the fire. We the people need to hold our representatives responsible and keep the fire in the fireplace. The states don't share Sovereignty with the Federal Government. Sovereignty is like being pregnant. You cant share a pregnancy.

Each State had its citizens rights protected under the Constitution, but each State was to be its own experiment of freedom. Imagine if we had retained a limited Federal Government with 50 experiments of freedom in a constitutional republic. The states with the greatest prosperity and success and happiness would immediately begin to be emulated by other states and we would have continued to become more free and prosperous. Of course the Book of Mormon warns us what happens when we prosper too much and become prideful. It is a very fragile balance. Liberty is precious and comes at a great cost.

We cannot allow ourselves to go to sleep and let these threats to freedom gain so much control over us. Winning the election is just the beginning, but will we be able to stand our ground against the onslought that will come from the centers of power.
I agree with your first two paragraphs but "liberty" didn't win this election. Republicans and Democrats are both major threats to freedom.

Matchmaker
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Matchmaker »

The US government would never give up CA to the Mexicans, because it would just be the beginning. La Raza would then try to reclaim the rest of Aztlan, as well. Aztlan is made up of CA, NV, UT, AZ, NM, TX, and part of CO, which includes Aspen. It would never happen.

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markharr
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by markharr »

Cut off the power grid at the California border, and then cut off the Colorado river aqueduct at the California border and let's see how long this #calexit movement lasts. At the very least they would be paying heavily for the use of that water from other states.

They don't have enough fresh water to meet their needs as it is. They are already talking about doing aqueducts to states as far away as Alaska.

And don't forget that a large part of Trump's agenda was ending job-killing free trade deals. Yes, they have a large economy but it is dependent on being able to sell their goods to other states. If California secedes there would be a tariff in involved in doing that under Trump. With California gone it would probably be a long time before there was a more liberal president to change that policy.

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ajax
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by ajax »

The Left Embraces Secession With CalExit
https://mises.org/blog/left-embraces-secession-calexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One of the potential silver linings from the surprising victory for Donald Trump is the hope that a Republican White House will resurrect the left’s distrust of the Federal government. During the Obama administration, progressive activists have been noticeably less vocal on issues such as war, executive overreach, and civil liberty violations than they were when George W. Bush was in office. Encouragingly, we are already seeing signs of this with the idea of California secession buzzing on social media as demonstrators marched in Sacramento yesterday in support of the idea.

As Business Insider reported:
The group leading the charge, Yes California Independence Campaign, assembled long before Trump's surprising victory. Its aim is to put a referendum on the 2019 ballot that, if passed, would make California an independent country.
CalExit has even managed to find financial support from some in Silicon Valley:
The movement has racked up some impressive backers already. Shervin Pishevar, an early investor in Uber and well-known angel investor, claimed on Twitter that he would bankroll a campaign to make California its own nation if Trump won.

In an interview with CNBC on Wednesday, he confirmed his mission.

"It's the most patriotic thing I can do," he told CNBC. "The country is at serious crossroads. ... Calling it New California."

He expressed a desire that California, the sixth largest economy in the world, in terms of GDP, might become a catalyst for a "national dialogue" as the country reaches a "tipping point."
While this blossoming interest in California secession is likely more a short-term partisan reaction to the election results than a reflection of a true growing movement — any campaign aimed toward political decentralization should be celebrated. Secession has long been portrayed exclusively as a reactionary, fringe right-wing solution, and too-often absurdly linked with racism. Secession should be seen as non-ideological, and perceived as a practical solution for an increasingly diverse society.

In fact, as Jeff Deist noted last year during a Mises Circle event dedicated to the subject, secession would make it easier for the progressive left to achieve the sort of society they desire:
Now one might think progressives would champion the Tenth Amendment and states’ rights, because it would liberate them from the Neanderthal right wingers who stand in the way of their progressive utopia. Imagine California or Massachusetts having every progressive policy firmly in place, without any preemptive federal legislation or federal courts to get in their way, and without having to share federal tax revenues with the hated red states.

Imagine an experiment where residents of the San Francisco bay area were free to live under a political and social regime of their liking, while residents of Salt Lake City were free to do the same.

Surely both communities would be much happier with this commonsense arrangement than the current one, whereby both have to defer to Washington!
Considering the fundamental economic fallacies he spent most of his campaign advocating, it's unlikely the Trump administration will end up advocating for the sort of policies America actually needs to become great again. But if the election of President Trump leads to more and more people questioning the value of democratic consensus, and causes more Americans to reassess the incredible powers that have been granted to the presidency, libertarians may be able to find a silver lining to this cycles election results.

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markharr
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by markharr »

Speaking of California.

Katty Perry is now calling for revolution.

Imagine for a second that she had a legitimate reason to call for revolution, and that there was no second amendment. Would she revolt with? The power of music?

The second amendment benefits all of us. Without it, everything else in the bill of rights is just a suggestion.

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skmo
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by skmo »

markharr wrote:Imagine for a second that she had a legitimate reason to call for revolution, and that there was no second amendment. Would she revolt with?
Her breasts.

No, seriously. Neither male nor female celebs have much hesitation to sell their bodies for a cause.

Benjamin_LK
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Benjamin_LK »

BrianM wrote:The secession of California would be great for this country.

It's crazy that they are 400 Billion in debt! (more proof socialism doesn't work).
They are short on water too. So they will get their water depleted when other liberals immigrate to the newly seceded California.

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skmo
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by skmo »

Benjamin_LK wrote:
BrianM wrote:The secession of California would be great for this country.

It's crazy that they are 400 Billion in debt! (more proof socialism doesn't work).
They are short on water too. So they will get their water depleted when other liberals immigrate to the newly seceded California.
You mean make them even more short on water? Aren't the fruits and nuts of Cali already dizzy, light-headed, and woozy enough?

braingrunt
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by braingrunt »

On the other hand, they make a crapload of food. Keeping up good relations with them is probably advisable.

Matchmaker
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Re: #Calexit: Will California secede with Trump win?

Post by Matchmaker »

If CA left the USA, they would no longer receive all the free Federal monies and other subsidies from the government. The rich would leave the state in droves, and there would be no one to pay for all the welfare programs. CA would become another Venezuela in no time.

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