Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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iWriteStuff wrote:
Silver wrote:
IWS,
Even at the peak, gold was around $1900/oz. How did your uncles manage (LOL) to buy at $2400? MS69 or MS70 perhaps? If they got numismatics then the value might not have fallen as far as you think. On the other hand, if they bought from an outfit that advertises on TEEVEE (caveat emptor), then they truly were careless.

Once again I'll remind everybody that until the US defaulted on its debts to foreign countries in 1971, gold was under $40/oz. People like my dad who got a few ounces then and held on have obviously done very well. So never buy precious metals with your grocery money.
Sorry, the defect of relying on memory is the imprecision. Also, the story was relayed to me by my father, who was not part of the "Cash in Grandma's retirement" party. That distinction goes to my uncles the preppers. (Anecdotally, they're not even members - they just really believe the end is nigh.) The main fact of the story remains: they lost a considerable amount of my grandmother's money because of fear. Though both of them have a net worth of over $1M each, the vast majority of their wealth comes from owning things people actually need - like rental homes and farms.

I have considered their case as instructive. So is 2 Nephi 9:51:
"Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your labor for that which cannot satisfy"


The worth of gold is speculative at best. Rather have something in hand I could eat instead.

The story with the EQP buying silver at $32/oz was a firsthand conversation with said EQP. He was selling his prized shotgun and looking for buyers, thinking me to be in the market. He did NOT purchase his silver with grocery money. He used his financial reserve. Then he needed his financial reserve (lost his job) and discovered the silver he'd purchased as an investment had lost more than half its value. Hence his desperation for cash.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic towards your preference for precious metal commodities, Silver. It's merely a coincidence that I've seen people burned trying to use it as an investment more times than not. If the sole purpose of it is for bartering in an economy where all confidence in the dollar has been destroyed, then I'm sure it'll be just fine. Till then, anyone hoping to make a lot of money exchanging dollars for silver and back again is going to be sadly disappointed by its volatility and speculative nature.
I'm sure Russia and China are morons for buying 1000's of tons since the last near miss. ;)

However, the destruction of ALL nations have been decreed (if we are to believe the scriptures D&C 87:6) and their currencies with them.

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gclayjr
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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fiannan,
Okay, let's put it this way. You have a child who is suffering from a deadly bacterial infection. You have ten powerful anti-biotic pills, which ten are necessary to cure your child. One pill will not do any good, and nine might save her, but ten is what is absolutely necessary. There are nine other children you know of that have the same disease as your child.

What do you do? What kind of father would you be if you decided either to save a different child than your daughter or spread out all ten of the pills, which means all ten children are guaranteed to die?
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
Plato
Fiannan, this is why we need to bend our knees in prayer and LISTEN to God! As I mentioned before, if you took whatever food storage... or money, and tried to distribute to the whole world, you would help nobody. You first take care of yourself and your family, then help others.

If you twist the thought experiment into a situation where you know that your child will die, and that giving your medicine away will save nobody, then this is a completely different, unrelated situation. However, one might pray and it might be possible to get an inspiration from God to give the medicine away and then anoint your child and give it it a priesthood blessing. As for me, because of how much I "see through a glass darkly", God would have to hit me over the head with such instructions.

Also, you have not addressed my point before how that people actually bring value and are required to work out of any major long term catastrophe, and that stuff, including food doesn't just magically exists. It must be created, by people. Therefor, if you weren't so selfish, the act of helping others may in the long run actually help yourself.

Regards,

George Clay

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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Hogmeister wrote:
I'm sure Russia and China are morons for buying 1000's of tons since the last near miss. ;)

However, the destruction of ALL nations have been decreed (if we are to believe the scriptures D&C 87:6) and their currencies with them.
You're aware Russia and China are responsible for starving millions of their own citizens to death over the last century, right? Who benefits from the government stockpiling gold instead of food? Read up on The Great Leap Forward and see how Mao killed up to 45 million people in order to achieve his political goals.

My point is they are no model for success, then or now. Follow the scriptures, follow the prophet. Gold is not the answer to an economic collapse.

Would you rather be like the Russians and Chinese or would you rather be like Joseph in Egypt? I think the choice is clear.

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:
I'm sure Russia and China are morons for buying 1000's of tons since the last near miss. ;)

However, the destruction of ALL nations have been decreed (if we are to believe the scriptures D&C 87:6) and their currencies with them.
You're aware Russia and China are responsible for starving millions of their own citizens to death over the last century, right? Who benefits from the government stockpiling gold instead of food? Read up on The Great Leap Forward and see how Mao skilled up to 45 million in order to achieve his political goals.

My point is they are no model for success, then or now. Follow the scriptures, follow the prophet. Gold is not the answer to an economic collapse.

Would you rather be like the Russians and Chinese or would you rather be like Joseph in Egypt? I think the choice is clear.
The US is responsible for millions of deaths and starvation in other countries over the last century and seems to be escalating the effort. Russia has way more stockpiles of food (and gold) than the US.

Btw do you know the function of money? Why was it invented in the first place? Why has it been in use for 1000's of years?
Last edited by Hogmeister on October 10th, 2016, 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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Hogmeister wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:
I'm sure Russia and China are morons for buying 1000's of tons since the last near miss. ;)

However, the destruction of ALL nations have been decreed (if we are to believe the scriptures D&C 87:6) and their currencies with them.
You're aware Russia and China are responsible for starving millions of their own citizens to death over the last century, right? Who benefits from the government stockpiling gold instead of food? Read up on The Great Leap Forward and see how Mao skilled up to 45 million in order to achieve his political goals.

My point is they are no model for success, then or now. Follow the scriptures, follow the prophet. Gold is not the answer to an economic collapse.

Would you rather be like the Russians and Chinese or would you rather be like Joseph in Egypt? I think the choice is clear.
The US is responsible for millions of deaths and starvation in other countries over the last century and seems to be escalating the effort. Russia has way more stockpiles of food (and gold) than the US.
You seem to miss the significance of the fact that the Russians and Chinese did this knowingly to their own people, not citizens of foreign nations. They amass wealth not to help their people but to purchase great armies and navies (in China's case they paid for the nuclear technology with the food that was originally meant to feed the 45 million who starved to death) and rule with blood and horror.

That's a certain economic model, sure, but it's not God's economic model. God has little use for gold in his economic plans for Zion, other than as paving stones.

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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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Hogmeister wrote:Btw do you know the function of money? Why was it invented in the first place?
Medium of exchange, easily replaced by useful commodities in a barter economy. Yes, I've studied the subject extensively.

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:
I'm sure Russia and China are morons for buying 1000's of tons since the last near miss. ;)

However, the destruction of ALL nations have been decreed (if we are to believe the scriptures D&C 87:6) and their currencies with them.
You're aware Russia and China are responsible for starving millions of their own citizens to death over the last century, right? Who benefits from the government stockpiling gold instead of food? Read up on The Great Leap Forward and see how Mao skilled up to 45 million in order to achieve his political goals.

My point is they are no model for success, then or now. Follow the scriptures, follow the prophet. Gold is not the answer to an economic collapse.

Would you rather be like the Russians and Chinese or would you rather be like Joseph in Egypt? I think the choice is clear.
The US is responsible for millions of deaths and starvation in other countries over the last century and seems to be escalating the effort. Russia has way more stockpiles of food (and gold) than the US.
You seem to miss the significance of the fact that the Russians and Chinese did this knowingly to their own people, not citizens of foreign nations. They amass wealth not to help their people but to purchase great armies and navies (in China's case they paid for the nuclear technology with the food that was originally meant to feed the 45 million who starved to death) and rule with blood and horror.

That's a certain economic model, sure, but it's not God's economic model. God has little use for gold in his economic plans for Zion, other than as paving stones.
Forgive me but I do not believe God has revealed the details of his (terrestial) economic model to you.

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:Btw do you know the function of money? Why was it invented in the first place?
Medium of exchange, easily replaced by useful commodities in a barter economy. Yes, I've studied the subject extensively.
Why don't we barter now then since it is so easy according to you? Why do mankind seem to constantly replace barter again and again?
Last edited by Hogmeister on October 10th, 2016, 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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Hogmeister wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
You're aware Russia and China are responsible for starving millions of their own citizens to death over the last century, right? Who benefits from the government stockpiling gold instead of food? Read up on The Great Leap Forward and see how Mao skilled up to 45 million in order to achieve his political goals.

My point is they are no model for success, then or now. Follow the scriptures, follow the prophet. Gold is not the answer to an economic collapse.

Would you rather be like the Russians and Chinese or would you rather be like Joseph in Egypt? I think the choice is clear.
The US is responsible for millions of deaths and starvation in other countries over the last century and seems to be escalating the effort. Russia has way more stockpiles of food (and gold) than the US.
You seem to miss the significance of the fact that the Russians and Chinese did this knowingly to their own people, not citizens of foreign nations. They amass wealth not to help their people but to purchase great armies and navies (in China's case they paid for the nuclear technology with the food that was originally meant to feed the 45 million who starved to death) and rule with blood and horror.

That's a certain economic model, sure, but it's not God's economic model. God has little use for gold in his economic plans for Zion, other than as paving stones.
Forgive me but I do not believe God has revealed the details of his (terrestial) economic model to you.
He revealed it to his prophet Joseph. It's all over the D&C, starting with the earliest days of the church. Joseph was darn near consumed with the concept of Zion and New Jerusalem beginning as early as 1831. In numerous sections he lays out the foundation of his economic plan for His saints to follow.

Interesting that you try to make a distinction between his terrestrial plans and celestial, though. There is no difference. Zion is built on a celestial law; elsewise God will not receive it unto Himself.

Please, go read the D&C and tell me how much value God places on Gold or even property.

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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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Hogmeister wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:Btw do you know the function of money? Why was it invented in the first place?
Medium of exchange, easily replaced by useful commodities in a barter economy. Yes, I've studied the subject extensively.
Why don't we barter now then since it is so easy according to you?
Straw man, hog. We're not talking about now, we're talking about preps for the future. Gold and silver have no comparison to the value of food and water when there is a scarcity of both. So say the scriptures, and so say modern prophets.

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
Hogmeister wrote:
The US is responsible for millions of deaths and starvation in other countries over the last century and seems to be escalating the effort. Russia has way more stockpiles of food (and gold) than the US.
You seem to miss the significance of the fact that the Russians and Chinese did this knowingly to their own people, not citizens of foreign nations. They amass wealth not to help their people but to purchase great armies and navies (in China's case they paid for the nuclear technology with the food that was originally meant to feed the 45 million who starved to death) and rule with blood and horror.

That's a certain economic model, sure, but it's not God's economic model. God has little use for gold in his economic plans for Zion, other than as paving stones.
Forgive me but I do not believe God has revealed the details of his (terrestial) economic model to you.
He revealed it to his prophet Joseph. It's all over the D&C, starting with the earliest days of the church. Joseph was darn near consumed with the concept of Zion and New Jerusalem beginning as early as 1831. In numerous sections he lays out the foundation of his economic plan for His saints to follow.

Interesting that you try to make a distinction between his terrestrial plans and celestial, though. There is no difference. Zion is built on a celestial law; elsewise God will not receive it unto Himself.

Please, go read the D&C and tell me how much value God places on Gold or even property.
The earth will recieve its terrestial glory before celestial. I think going celestial after the next SHTF event is to great a leap for most people.

I have not seen the concept of barter economy in the D&C but I'm curious.

What I do know is that after the issues with the scrip of the Kirtland Bank the prophet JS instructed the Church members to only accept gold and silver as money to avoid the pitfall of scrip or paper money.

To me it sounds like God and his people has valued property and money a great deal thoughout history both as blessings and in building Zion.

If I bought 5 tons of wheat (I already have several hundred kg) just to get out of fiat and realized I needed to follow the prophet and relocate my family. I think all that wheat would be impossible for me to take with me (it would not be scarce to me). Thus I would likely want to change it for something less cumbersome to take with me on my journey.

In addition, do you think we will struggle with food scarcity for the next 1000 years and find barter the optimal economic system for the next 1000 years? I find barter primitive but apparently you don't. Modern fractional reserve banking I find utterly dishonest and unsound (I work in banking btw). My own research into modern monetary history has led me to believe that gold and silver is the kryptonite of fractional reserve banking. I save in physical unencumbered gold and silver in part to piss off the bankers (after having obtained a sufficient food and supplies storage of course) . ;)
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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Hogmeister wrote: The earth will recieve its terrestial glory before celestial. I think going celestial after the next SHTF event was to great a leap for most people.

I have not seen the concept of barter economy in the D&C but I'm curious.

What I do know is that after the issues with the scrip of the Kirtland Bank the prophet JS instructed the Church members to only accept gold and silver as money to avoid the pitfall of scrip or paper money.

To me it sounds like God and his people has valued property and money a great deal thoughout history both as blessings and in building Zion.

If I bought 5 tons of wheat (I already have several hundred kg) just to get out of fiat and realized I needed to follow the prophet and relocate my family. I think all that wheat would be impossible for me to take with me (it would not be scarce to me). Thus I would likely want to change it for something less cumbersome to take with me on my journey.

In addition, do you think we will struggle with food scarcity for the next 1000 years and find barter the optimal economic system for the next 1000 years? I find barter primitive but apparently you don't. Modern fractional reserve banking I find utterly dishonest and unsound (I work in banking btw). My own research into modern monetary history has led me to believe that gold and silver is the kryptonite of fractional reserve banking. I save in physical unencumbered gold and silver in part to piss off the bankers (after having obtained a sufficient food and supplies storage) . ;)
To the contrary, if you read the BofM, the shift towards the celestial economy (all things in common) happens like clockwork every time there's a SHTF event. It always begins that way, partially because there's so little left. Apparently it's easier to share when you have next to nothing. As soon as one accumulates a little wealth, the disparities arrive.

BTW speaking of that celestial economy, all things in common implies sharing, not barter. Barter comes in only when you go outside the celestial economy. Inside, however, the things that matter are the things that are useful. You could have all gold in common, but who wants gold when it's useless for individual survival? Rather, the celestial economy of Zion pools all monetary resources (gold, silver, federal notes) and places them in the storehouse for use outside the community.

Supposing the economy of Babylon is in a state of collapse, do you think your neighbors will want your gold or your wheat? Or would a wise steward be more concerned about protecting the staff of life?

Barter is primitive, sure, but if we're presupposing the collapse of society, isn't it reasonable to expect a primitive economy?

FWIW I've worked in banking and finance and agree that fractional reserve lending is a weapon of mass destruction unrivaled in our time.
Last edited by iWriteStuff on October 10th, 2016, 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by gclayjr »

Hogmeister,

A barter system is so complicated that man will always create some form of money system, whether cigarettes in prison, or Golden dolls in the Aztec culture. In fact the Bible never condemned money, it only condemns the LOVE of money.

Think of how complicated even simple transactions become without money. You have eggs and want some corn. I have a plow and want some eggs, but not as many eggs as I think a plow is worth. Another person has corn and would like a plow, and I have no use for Corn for myself. How would you work out this barter?

Regards,

George Clay

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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iWriteStuff wrote:
To the contrary, if you read the BofM, the shift towards the celestial economy (all things in common) happens like clockwork every time there's a SHTF event. It always begins that way, partially because there's so little left. Apparently it's easier to share when you have next to nothing. As soon as one accumulates a little wealth, the disparities arrive.

BTW speaking of that celestial economy, all things in common implies sharing, not barter. Barter comes in only when you go outside the celestial economy. Inside, however, the things that matter are the things that are useful. You could have all gold in common, but who wants gold when it's useless for individual survival? Rather, the celestial economy of Zion pools all monetary resources (gold, silver, federal notes) and places them in the storehouse for use outside the community.

Supposing the economy of Babylon is in a state of collapse, do you think your neighbors will want your gold or your wheat? Or would a wise steward be more concerned about protecting the staff of life?

Barter is primitive, sure, but if we're presupposing the collapse of society, isn't it reasonable to expect a primitive economy?

FWIW I've worked in banking and finance and agree that fractional reserve lending is a weapon of mass destruction unrivaled in our time.
"About these days Joseph and Sidney arrived at Kirtland to the joy and satisfaction of the Saints. The disciples had all things common, and were going to destruction very fast as to temporal things; for they considered from reading the scripture that what belonged to a brother, belonged to any of the brethren. Therefore they would take each other's clothes and other property and use it without leave which brought on confusion and disappointments, for they did not understand the scripture. After Joseph lived there a few days the word of the Lord came saying: (See D&C 41.)

Behold, after this revelation was received the elders were called together, and united in mighty power; and were agreed, as touching the reception of the law. Therefore, thus saith the Lord: (See D&C 42. Portions of this section following RLDS 42:19 were not quoted in this history).

After the above law or revelation was received, the elders went forth to proclaim repentance according to commandment, and there were members added to the Church. The Bishop Edward Partridge visited the Church in its several branches, there were some that would not receive the law. The time has not yet come that the law can be fully established, for the disciples live scattered abroad and are not organized, our numbers are small and the disciples untaught, consequently they understand not the things of the kingdom. There were some of the disciples who were flattered into the Church because they thought that all things were to be common, therefore they thought to glut themselves upon the labors of others."

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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The Prophet's Answer to Sundry Questions

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

I answered the questions which were frequently asked me, while on my last journey but one from Kirtland to Missouri, as printed in the Elders' Journal, Vol. 1, Number 2, pages 28 and 29, as follows:

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

First--"Do you believe the Bible?"

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do.

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

Second--"Wherein do you differ from other sects?"

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

In that we believe the Bible, and all other sects profess to believe their interpretations of the Bible, and their creeds.

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

Third--"Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness.

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

Fourth--"How and where did you obtain the Book of Mormon?"

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

Moroni, who deposited the plates in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me, and told me where they were, and gave me directions how to obtain them. I obtained them, and the Urim and Thummim with them, by the means of which I translated the plates; and thus came the Book of Mormon.

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

Fifth--"Do you believe Joseph Smith, Jun., to be a Prophet?"

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

Yes, and every other man who has the testimony of Jesus. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.--Revelation, 19:10th verse.

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

Sixth--"Do the Mormons believe in having all things in common?"

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

No.

Section Three 1838-39, p.119

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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Hogmeister if you want to debate the Law of Consecration, you're welcome to start a new thread. I'm sure we could go long days on the subject. But that is outside the stated goal of the OP and therefore the topic merits its own thread rather than hijacking this one.

If you want to debate the practice of consecration in the church (which happened even post-Joseph (see Orderville)), or in the Nephite days, you can do that too. I think you'll find there's ample evidence that it is a celestial law and necessary for Zion in order to be acceptable to God.

As per your reference to Kirtland in the early days of the church, the law was not yet fully revealed until revelation started to come forth about establishing Zion/New Jerusalem in the land of Independence Missouri. Failure of the saints to live the law of consecration is not a condemnation of the law but of the people who couldn't live up to it. That law must be lived in its fullness for Zion to be acceptable to God.

Until then, buy and hoard gold. It's your prerogative.
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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The way I currently interpret D&C 42 is that the members of the Church would consecrate property to the Church that would be given out as stewardships to the poor who had no property with which to prosper. Once the poor prospered and could sustain themselves their property the consecrated Church property would remain in the Church (belong to the community) and a New stewardship to another poor Family could be appointed.
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"The month of September was apparently rather uneventful in regard to Joseph Smith's public teachings. He did speak on matters of medicine (see previous notes on Lobelia and Calomel doctors) and publically debated various visitors to Nauvoo on social and religious issues. One exception was his discource on Sunday September 24 where he preached on the unwisdom of having all things in common at Nauvoo. These short texts may be found in WJS."

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D&C 42:54 Thou shalt not take thy brother’s garment; thou shalt pay for that which thou shalt receive of thy brother.

This is also part of the Law of concecration.

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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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The law of consecration is a minimal requirement, for "if my people observe not this law, . . . it shall not be a land of Zion unto you" (D&C 119:6)

"Let them repent of all their sins, and of all their covetous desires, before me, saith the Lord; for what is property unto me? saith the Lord" (D&C 117:4)

"Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself" (D&C 105:5)

"Hear the teachings of the gospel along with the rest of the human race—and follow them, and you will not have to worry about Satan's hold on the economy, for then you will observe and keep the law of consecration." - Brigham Young
"To "consecrate," says the dictionary, means "to make or declare sacred or holy; to set apart, dedicate, devote to the service or worship of God; to deliver up or give over often with or as if with due solemnity, dedication, or devotion."17 God is going to "organize my kingdom upon the consecrated land" (D&C 103:35), the land "which I have consecrated to be the land of Zion" (D&C 103:24), for a consecrated people. "Let the city, Far West be a holy and consecrated land unto me; and it shall be called most holy, for the ground upon which thou standest is holy" (D&C 115:7). The word appears more than 140 times in the Doctrine and Covenants. It was when some of the brethren began trading in this holy land that the Prophet denounced them, telling them in the name of Israel's God that Zion could never be built up in such a way. The foundation of the Holy City was to be nothing other than the law of consecration (D&C 48:6)."

"What is there to stop me from observing and keeping the law of consecration at this very day as I have already covenanted and promised to do without reservation? Is the foundation too broad for us to build on? We are in the position of one who has inherited a number of fabulously rich and varied franchises. Only two or three of the enterprises really appeal to him, and so he devotes all his attention to them and neglects all the others. How often have we heard, even from outsiders—if the Latter-day Saints only realized what riches they possess! Well, there is a clause in the will stating that if the heir neglects any of the franchises, he will forfeit them all. What am I doing with genealogy, temple work, Sunday School, priesthood, home teaching, scripture study, and all my meetings? I simply can't do them all; I cannot begin to do justice to them. Why not? Because I am, as my grandfather used to say and not entirely in jest, too taken up with the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches, by which he meant business. But must you spend so much time at it? Don't you know that if you lived by the law of consecration you would have time enough for all of it? But that is out of the question; our way of life demands the other. Which is exactly why God has always commanded his people to give up that way of life, come out of the world, and follow his special instructions. The main purpose of the Doctrine and Covenants, you will find, is to implement the law of consecration.

- Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion
"The great duty rested upon the Saints to put in operation God's purposes with regard to the United Order, by the consecration of the private wealth to the common good of the people. The underlying principle of the United Order was that there should be no rich and no poor, that men's talents should be used for the common good, and that selfish interests should make way for a more benevolent and generous spirit among the Saints. In response, the whole assembly [of the priesthood] voted to renew their covenants, and later the Presidency, the Twelve, the Seventies, and the Presiding Bishop were baptized and entered into a special covenant to observe the rules of the United Order. . . . This movement became general throughout the Church." - Brigham Young, 1875

And on and on.

You can argue the law of consecration into non-existence or complete impotence if you please. But some day I would like to live it. And yes, I hope to bring as much to the table as I can, regardless of what someone else is able to contribute.

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by Hogmeister »

iWriteStuff wrote:Hogmeister if you want to debate the Law of Consecration, you're welcome to start a new thread. I'm sure we could go long days on the subject. But that is outside the stated goal of the OP and therefore the topic merits its own thread rather than hijacking this one.

If you want to debate the practice of consecration in the church (which happened even post-Joseph (see Orderville)), or in the Nephite days, you can do that too. I think you'll find there's ample evidence that it is a celestial law and necessary for Zion in order to be acceptable to God.

As per your reference to Kirtland in the early days of the church, the law was not yet fully revealed until revelation started to come forth about establishing Zion/New Jerusalem in the land of Independence Missouri. Failure of the saints to live the law of consecration is not a condemnation of the law but of the people who couldn't live up to it. That law must be lived in its fullness for Zion to be acceptable to God.

Until then, buy and hoard gold. It's your prerogative.
To save in gold is a much more sound principle than to save in USD. To save in USD you are indirectly building up "Babylon". Saving in gold is actually a way of fighting it and becoming more independent from it.

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by Hogmeister »

In reality I believe the Law of consecration will eventually apply to every property (even ourselves) in Gods exalted Kingdom. We may own it or be stewards of it but it must be consecrated or set apart for the building of the Kingdom of our God in order to be a part of the highest order of the Kingdom of God. For if it is not set apart for this purpose it will be used to build the Kingdom of the devil.

Consecration or setting apart has less to do with ownership/stewardship than for what ends it is used.
Last edited by Hogmeister on October 10th, 2016, 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Hogmeister wrote:In reality I believe the Law of consecration will eventually apply to every property (even ourselves) in Gods Kingdom. We may own it or be stewards of it but it must be consecrated or set apart for the building of the Kingdom of our God in order to be a part of the Kingdom of God. For if it is not set apart for this purpose it will be used to build the Kingdom of the devil.

Consecration or setting apart has less to do with ownership/stewardship than for what ends it is used.
So explain to me what role you see Gold having in a consecrated Kingdom of God.

BackBlast
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by BackBlast »

iWriteStuff wrote:So explain to me what role you see Gold having in a consecrated Kingdom of God.
Paving material... :D

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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by freedomforall »

Fiannan wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Fiannan wrote:The father sacrificed the lives of his kids for the benefit of his ego. Not sure that is something that will bring blessings.
You would say something like this. You apparently speak for yourself and not how God would see it. Typical.
Okay, let's put it this way. You have a child who is suffering from a deadly bacterial infection. You have ten powerful anti-biotic pills, which ten are necessary to cure your child. One pill will not do any good, and nine might save her, but ten is what is absolutely necessary. There are nine other children you know of that have the same disease as your child.

What do you do? What kind of father would you be if you decided either to save a different child than your daughter or spread out all ten of the pills, which means all ten children are guaranteed to die?
Although this is an extremely, unlikely scenario, I would pray and ask God to heal all ten kids after having given each one pill.
The brother of Jared took sixteen stones to God and asked him to light them so everyone in the eight ships could see.

Ether 3:1
1 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared, (now the number of the vessels which had been prepared was eight) went forth unto the mount, which they called the mount Shelem, because of its exceeding height, and did molten out of a rock sixteen small stones; and they were white and clear, even as transparent glass; and he did carry them in his hands upon the top of the mount, and cried again unto the Lord, saying:

So what happened to faith?

Also Jesus fed five thousand souls with only a few fish and several loaves of bread. Some accounts say five loaves, others say seven. Again, faith.

Tell us why God couldn't make those children well, either by expanding the quantity of the pills, or allowing healing to take place with only one pill each.

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