Elder Cook calls out preppers?

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freedomforall
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by freedomforall »

So charity has limitations? Pray for charity but exclude people who are not prepared? So we can love others unconditionally but not let unprepared folks partake of charitable acts like giving them food and water. I guess this is why Jesus doesn't allow five of the ten virgins in because they were not prepared, no matter how much he loved them. So loving others can only go so far, even after allowing the hungry, unprepared folks die, I get it now. And I guess we can still love ourselves even when we withhold food and water to the unprepared all the while watching them die right in front of us. Now that is love! Wow, I hadn't thought of it this way.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by Spaced_Out »

freedomforall wrote:So charity has limitations? Pray for charity but exclude people who are not prepared? So we can love others unconditionally but not let unprepared folks partake of charitable acts like giving them food and water. I guess this is why Jesus doesn't allow five of the ten virgins in because they were not prepared, no matter how much he loved them. So loving others can only go so far, even after allowing the hungry, unprepared folks die, I get it now. And I guess we can still love ourselves even when we withhold food and water to the unprepared all the while watching them die right in front of us. Now that is love! Wow, I hadn't thought of it this way.
There is a limit to what a person can do, right now today there are members of the church going to bed hungry in Africa and other parts of the world. What do we do about it!!

Many years ago in South Africa Elder Marvin J. Aston a senior apostle spoke at a fireside and after looking at the poverty in Africa said one should not steal or do bad things it is ok to die of starvation as long as your heart is right with God. Death by starvation is not such a terrible thing.

With like only 5-10% of members with food storage and the majority of people having less than a week or two of food in any one time - there is no real point in having food storage. If it is distributed equally between all people in your neighborhood, within one to two days you would be out of food despite having a years supply. There is no solution, that why it is bugout for me or to a tent city, LOL where all those with food storage leave and those with no storage get left behind to eat each other :ymdevil:

"Too often we bask in comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they will somehow be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion. The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His Servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have you (we) heeded His counsel?" Ezra Taft Benson, Jun. 1980.

"For a desolating scourge shall go forth among the inhabitants of the earth, and shall continue to be poured out from time to time." D&C 5:19.

"Should the Lord decide at this time to cleanse the Church - and the need for that cleansing seems to be increasing - a famine in this land of one year's duration could wipe out a large percentage of slothful members including some ward and stake officers. Yet we cannot say we have not been warned." Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg. 265.

brianj
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by brianj »

I know a lot of people with great qualifications who can't get a job. With your number one, you use the logical fallacy of converse accident. What has worked for you until now is not evidence that it will work for everybody. What would you say to the guy with 15 years of experience in the computer field, who was laid off and is being told he isn't qualified for a new job because he wasn't working with exactly the technology that employers now want? Or the person who has been living in a small town in Kansas, was laid off when his employer went out of business, and who can't afford to move somewhere for a better chance at a job?

Yes, you can buy food storage for less than $700 per person. If you are fortunate enough to live in Utah, with 21 home storage centers you are probably within half an hour drive of one so you can buy cases for less money. I know people in North and South Dakota, Little Rock, AR, and Memphis, TN who have a prohibitively long drive to their nearest home storage center. And sure, you can buy a 50 pound bag of wheat for a lot less than a 33 pound case, but is a thick paper bag appropriate for long-term storage? The wheat would get moldy in a few months if you have a significant humidity level!

I put your 70 hours into a deduction calculator. At a minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, and choosing the deductions for Utah with a married person in a family of four, and came up with a gross pay of $507.50, a net pay of $457.72, and $406.97 after tithing. And again, this is only possible if somebody has the amount of free time you do. I challenge you to approach any one of the many LDS couples I know where the husband works two jobs, the wife has a job, and tell them how easily they can work another 35 hours per week.

BackBlast
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by BackBlast »

brianj wrote:I know a lot of people with great qualifications who can't get a job. With your number one, you use the logical fallacy of converse accident. What has worked for you until now is not evidence that it will work for everybody. What would you say to the guy with 15 years of experience in the computer field, who was laid off and is being told he isn't qualified for a new job because he wasn't working with exactly the technology that employers now want?
I've been there. 10 years of Java experience that nobody wanted because it was all desktop development. Everyone wants the new hotness (web stacks/mobile). Never mind that HR depts can't see through the technology soup and see a qualified engineer. Which means I've learned the hard lesson that to survive in this field you have to dedicate about 10% of your time to simply staying current on the hottest new toys. 4 hours a week. Every week. If you enjoy it and have the spare time it's easy. If you don't particularly like it or your time is tight, it's hard. But you MUST do it to remain employable and get through the job gatekeepers.
Yes, you can buy food storage for less than $700 per person. If you are fortunate enough to live in Utah, with 21 home storage centers you are probably within half an hour drive of one so you can buy cases for less money. I know people in North and South Dakota, Little Rock, AR, and Memphis, TN who have a prohibitively long drive to their nearest home storage center. And sure, you can buy a 50 pound bag of wheat for a lot less than a 33 pound case, but is a thick paper bag appropriate for long-term storage? The wheat would get moldy in a few months if you have a significant humidity level!
Utah has nothing to do with a reasonable price point on a year supply. Bulk foods are available everywhere at reasonable prices if you seek them out. You can buy buckets and pack them yourself. It is not hard. And you can quite reasonably do it for half your $700 per person per year anywhere in the country.

Brazooka
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by Brazooka »

Elder Cook neither told us to stop living the Word of Wisdom nor to quit storing food or preparing for emergencies.
He warned us against looking beyond the mark but he didn't tell us to look short of the mark.
When does it get beyond the mark in these cases? This would be a matter of prayerful consideration. But you know you've gone beyond the mark when you start neglecting some covenants in order to overzealously live certain principles. Such as stop going to church in order to attend preparedness workshops or buying emergency equipment while faulting on tithing or fast offers. Likewise, judging others and giving them heck for drinking green tea or yerbamate.
In fact, isn't judging others while overlooking your own shortcomings a clear form of looking beyond the mark?

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gclayjr
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by gclayjr »

BackBlast,
I've been there. 10 years of Java experience that nobody wanted because it was all desktop development. Everyone wants the new hotness (web stacks/mobile). Never mind that HR depts can't see through the technology soup and see a qualified engineer. Which means I've learned the hard lesson that to survive in this field you have to dedicate about 10% of your time to simply staying current on the hottest new toys. 4 hours a week. Every week. If you enjoy it and have the spare time it's easy. If you don't particularly like it or your time is tight, it's hard. But you MUST do it to remain employable and get through the job gatekeepers.
I had the good fortune to work in software development in first MRP/ERP systems, and then later Manufacturing tracking and control systems (MES) over about 40 years, until I was finally laid off...err retired 2 years ago.

During my 4 decades or so, I would have many conversations with managers saying that I could learn any new development language in 1 week and that my understanding of manufacturing, and the needs of those who used manufacturing systems was more valuable than having the right "alphabet soup" in my resume. They would all agree with me, then as soon as they needed a new developer, they would tell HR to only evaluate candidates with a perfect "alphabet soup" match. I never could get anybody to walk the talk when it came to finding good employees.

I also, recognized pretty early in my career, that you had to invest a lot in learning the right incoming technology. I made a lot of good choices. I moved from big mainframes to mini computers in the early 80s, by the late 80's I was pushing for UNIX, and those nefangles PCs. I moved from various Assemply languages, COBOL and FORTRAN to C++< later JAVA, C#, and many others. It is my beliefe that nobody cares about anything you did more than 5 years ago.

I worked for a company that invested and encouraged me to be constantly upgrading my skills. I have to confess that the "entry fee" for developers is much higher than it was in the 70s and 80s. I mostly had to learn a language and some basic good programming techniques. Now with 3 tier programming, and development methodologies like MVC (Model View Controller) , you have be be an expert in very complex environments, and know all of the SQL data languages and tools for the data layer, along with languages and scripting for application layer development, such as c#, C++, VB, JAVA, and scripting for presentation layer stuff. A lot to learn, and I could never have learned it in a week.

I wish yoou well, but if you are not in and working, getting back in is extremely difficult...even if you diligently try to keep your skills up.

Regards,

George Clay

Merriner
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by Merriner »

50 lb. bag of wheat costs $17-$18. You can buy buckets with lids from firehouse subs or burger king (I like the burger king buckets.) The buckets smell like pickles even after you wash them, but the mylar bags separate your food from the smell of the bucket. We put sugar in a washed pickle bucket and it took over 3 years for the bucket to stop smelling like pickles, but the sugar never tasted like pickles. Buy a pack of 5 gallon mylar bags with 2000 cc oxygen absorbers and with your wifes hair straightener you can seal the bags. Watch some youtube videos if you aren't sure. Keep the oxygen absorbers in a plastic ziploc bag while you take your time with each bag otherwise they loose their absorption capacity. If you are getting 400 lbs of food/person. You can get food storage for 1 for less than $200

After you've got the staples (wheat, rice, beans etc.) you can slowly add the variety and such. You can learn to make a homemade solar oven. Store water however you can. You will need a lot of water. Get trash bags to line your toilet after plumbing stops working. Save phone books for toilet paper. Get a toilet plunger and a bucket with a lid with a small hole in the center for the plunger handle, and you can plunge wash your clothes. If people will just look into it a little, everyone should be able to prepare a little. Sanitation is your biggest enemy, make sure you can keep your environment clean without using too much water. (disposable bowls, plates, utensils are a must). You will be desperate for a bath after 3 days. How are you going to wash with a gallon of water? In Arizona, everyone has swimming pools, we'll find a way to bathe. Lol.

brianj
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by brianj »

Merriner wrote:You can buy buckets with lids from firehouse subs or burger king (I like the burger king buckets.) The buckets smell like pickles even after you wash them, but the mylar bags separate your food from the smell of the bucket. We put sugar in a washed pickle bucket and it took over 3 years for the bucket to stop smelling like pickles, but the sugar never tasted like pickles. Buy a pack of 5 gallon mylar bags with 2000 cc oxygen absorbers and with your wifes hair straightener you can seal the bags. Watch some youtube videos if you aren't sure. Keep the oxygen absorbers in a plastic ziploc bag while you take your time with each bag otherwise they loose their absorption capacity. If you are getting 400 lbs of food/person. You can get food storage for 1 for less than $200
Thanks for the suggestions, but it leads to two questions:
I haven't looked at the five gallon buckets fast food places use, but I have asked for one and three gallon buckets (which I would prefer for the lighter weight and not opening as much food at a time) from local bakeries. Those buckets have lids that are designed with a strip that peels off to open the lid, and once that strip is removed the lids won't lock into place. Does the same thing happen with five gallon buckets and if so, how do you get around that?

I have shied away from putting long term storage into buckets because of the apparent complexity. The advice I have consistently received until now is to drop a large piece of dry ice into the bucket, fill with whatever you are storing, lay the lid on, and somehow divine when the dry ice has completely sublimated to seal the lid at that moment. Does the mylar bag and oxygen absorber route provide the same end result?

And you mentioned putting bags into a toilet when you run out of water. Why not, instead of bagging it, collect waste water from cleaning, bathing, and laundry then pour it into the toilet to flush the waste away?
For those who really want a toilet but accept the possibility that 3 Ne 3:13 is a type of things to come, one day a few months back my wife came home with a five gallon bucket, a toilet seat designed to fit on it, and a bunch of bags. The seat and bags came from either Lowe's or Home Depot.

Merriner
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by Merriner »

The reason to use the mylar bags is because there is always a chance the bucket lid won't seal air tight, although I had a friend that put oxygen absorbers into the bucket without a bag and he put too much and the bucket deformed because the absorbers absorbed too much. The oxygen absorbers are always active, but as long as they aren't exposed to the air they won't absorb anything. That is why you need to keep them in a ziplock bag to prevent them from using all their absorption capacity. Oxygen is what causes food to decay, rot and go bad. Dry ice is just solid CO2 and sinks which pushes the other gases up and out of the bucket. Mylar bags also keep any humidity (moisture) and light, both of which are bad for food long term. You should be able to store for 30 years with either method. Dry ice seems a little more complicated. The money you spend on dry ice can easily be spent on mylar bags and oxygen absorbers. Some sellers include the oxygen absorbers with the bags. I haven't seen 2 or 3 gallon mylar bags though. I don't plan on ever using the long term food storage until I have to. And once I have to, a bucket of wheat will probably only last a month tops, I don't expect it will go bad that quickly after opening. I do have other things like powdered milk, corn meal, bisquik etc in 1 gallong bags that I will probably use on a rotation.

RickDeSilva
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by RickDeSilva »

Years ago when I first started taking preparedness seriously I had the epiphany that if I was doing more to prepare than I was as patriarch or home teacher or anything else I needed to be doing then I was out of balance.

Maybe that is what Elder Cook is referring to.

largerthanlife
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by largerthanlife »

Elder Cook calling out preppers sure looks silly right now. When was the last time the sure spoke about food storage?

Silas
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by Silas »

largerthanlife wrote: March 15th, 2020, 9:09 pm Elder Cook calling out preppers sure looks silly right now. When was the last time the sure spoke about food storage?
I’ve had family members get into serious debt to heed the warnings of numerous folk prophets who assured them that the end was right around the corner.

No one ever apologizes after their doomsday scenario doesn’t pan out. No one admits that they were wrong. Just some excuse.

They would have been better off doing as the church advises and slowly building up over time.

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inho
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by inho »

largerthanlife wrote: March 15th, 2020, 9:09 pm Elder Cook calling out preppers sure looks silly right now. When was the last time the sure spoke about food storage?
This is what Elder Cook said (emphasis mine):
While there are many examples of looking beyond the mark, a significant one in our day is extremism. Gospel extremism is when one elevates any gospel principle above other equally important principles and takes a position that is beyond or contrary to the teachings of Church leaders. One example is when one advocates for additions, changes, or primary emphasis to one part of the Word of Wisdom. Another is expensive preparation for end-of-days scenarios. In both examples, others are encouraged to accept private interpretations. “If we turn a health law or any other principle into a form of religious fanaticism, we are looking beyond the mark.”
Why does this look silly know?
I think these are wise words.

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harakim
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Re: Elder Cook calls out preppers?

Post by harakim »

inho wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:50 am
largerthanlife wrote: March 15th, 2020, 9:09 pm Elder Cook calling out preppers sure looks silly right now. When was the last time the sure spoke about food storage?
This is what Elder Cook said (emphasis mine):
While there are many examples of looking beyond the mark, a significant one in our day is extremism. Gospel extremism is when one elevates any gospel principle above other equally important principles and takes a position that is beyond or contrary to the teachings of Church leaders. One example is when one advocates for additions, changes, or primary emphasis to one part of the Word of Wisdom. Another is expensive preparation for end-of-days scenarios. In both examples, others are encouraged to accept private interpretations. “If we turn a health law or any other principle into a form of religious fanaticism, we are looking beyond the mark.”
Why does this look silly know?
I think these are wise words.
Yeah, all you needed was $100 of TP. That's not so expensive. Thousands of dollars of food would have been a giant waste.

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