Surrender Guns or Not?

[iWriteStuff]

The other gun-related thread has me wondering how many good, honest and upstanding folks on here would actually comply with a complete collapse of Second Amendment rights and the arrival of government agents to your door in order to collect your supply of guns and ammo.

For my part, it's as much a hobby as it is an obsession for me, so I don't think I could willingly surrender my hard-won stockpile. I have no ill intent for any of them, other than the capricious obliteration of thousands of paper targets and tin cans. I don't even hunt. I just find it a fun and relaxing hobby that allows me to focus on a target while calming my mind and body, followed by immediate visual feedback on my performance. If that's no longer constitutional, I don't know why anything else should be either.

Also, as food for thought:

guncontrol.jpg (39.45 KiB) Viewed 3993 times

[iWriteStuff]

Ok I'm curious which of the six people who have voted would surrender their guns and why?

[EmmaLee]

The option I would have chosen isn't offered, Brother iWrite, so I didn't vote. My husband and I would only surrender them if the Lord told us to. If we had received personal revelation beforehand (or even in the moment), then yes, we would give them up. If not, well, they would most likely have to forcibly take them from us. We feel no need/desire/obligation to obey unconstitutional laws, and attempting to remove our God-given 2nd Amendment rights would most certainly be entirely unconstitutional. My .02.

[Todd]

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the second amendment isn't about hunting and skeet shootin', but all about the fears the founding fathers had of a standing army. The fear that a standing army could infringe upon the rights of the people and take away their hard fought freedoms.

Even though Mr. Hood will disagree, I think history has proven these men to be correct -- that disarming the people makes it much easier for a standing army to trample basic rights (like life, liberty, etc...).

satan's plan has always been about manipulation and control. he is crafty at creating a state of fear among men in order carefully lead us down the path to hell.

It's interesting that the Weimar republic gun control act in 1928 was instituted because of fears that guns would land in the hands of extremists -- like the brown shirts (NAZI's). In a perverted way, it kind of worked. The Nazi's didn't stage an armed coup, but they certainly used it to their advantage once in power. They became the ultimate bully.

Many argue that an armed Jewish population wouldn't have made a difference in the holocaust calculus, but I beg to differ. My experience is that a bully is a bully. Doesn't matter if that bully is taking your lunch on the playground or taking your life in camp. A bully is emboldened and strengthened by the perception of weakness, but they always stand down when they perceive their opponent will fight back. That's why we should never give up our right to bear arms.

[iWriteStuff]

My experience is that a bully is a bully. Doesn't matter if that bully is taking your lunch on the playground or taking your life in camp. A bully is emboldened and strengthened by the perception of weakness, but they always stand down when they perceive their opponent will fight back. That's why we should never give up our right to bear arms.

I agree completely, Todd.

It's interesting the reasons people give why they wouldn't mind being completely disarmed, often citing the case of the People of Ammon who would rather die than take up arms. But what did Nephi do?

2 Nephi 5:14

14 And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us; for I knew their hatred towards me and my children and those who were called my people.

In the previous chapter he warned against relying upon the arm of the flesh, then his very next words are "And I...did make many swords". Nephi knew the Lord was his strength, yet it was his responsibility to defend his people, his wife and children. There might be a lesson there, if we're paying attention... maybe even several lessons.

[scottja]

I believe that the sword of Laban was one of the most technology advanced tools in Nephi's day, as it was made of fine steel and had a gold hilt.
It was harder and heavier than average.
We should also consider all the tools available to us today (modern firearms, skill and knowledge) to defend our children against those who hate and wish to destroy us.
Those are hard words, but evil men (and women) do exist, and they are subtle in their attacks against us.

[kirtland r.m.]

The other gun-related thread has me wondering how many good, honest and upstanding folks on here would actually comply with a complete collapse of Second Amendment rights and the arrival of government agents to your door in order to collect your supply of guns and ammo.

For my part, it's as much a hobby as it is an obsession for me, so I don't think I could willingly surrender my hard-won stockpile. I have no ill intent for any of them, other than the capricious obliteration of thousands of paper targets and tin cans. I don't even hunt. I just find it a fun and relaxing hobby that allows me to focus on a target while calming my mind and body, followed by immediate visual feedback on my performance. If that's no longer constitutional, I don't know why anything else should be either.

Also, as food for thought:

guncontrol.jpg

The second amendment trumps other instructions from the government, the constitution is still the supreme law of the land, even if they try a gun grab!

[David13]

The Lord will protect us. But we have to do the footwork.
dc

[Jason]

Who needs a gun when you can call down fire from heaven?

[isaacs2066]

My experience is that a bully is a bully. Doesn't matter if that bully is taking your lunch on the playground or taking your life in camp. A bully is emboldened and strengthened by the perception of weakness, but they always stand down when they perceive their opponent will fight back. That's why we should never give up our right to bear arms.

I agree completely, Todd.

It's interesting the reasons people give why they wouldn't mind being completely disarmed, often citing the case of the People of Ammon who would rather die than take up arms. But what did Nephi do?

2 Nephi 5:14

14 And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us; for I knew their hatred towards me and my children and those who were called my people.

In the previous chapter he warned against relying upon the arm of the flesh, then his very next words are "And I...did make many swords". Nephi knew the Lord was his strength, yet it was his responsibility to defend his people, his wife and children. There might be a lesson there, if we're paying attention... maybe even several lessons.

I also love the whole B.S. liberal argument that the military would utterly waste any uprising in america because of advanced technology and training.

Which would make sense if you have never heard of the war in Afghanistan, because ya know we left and the Taliban is still 60,000+ deep in that place.

Now it seems to me that if those uneducated under equipped and ill trained Taliban fighters can cause so much of a ruckus that we just leave then well educated, somewhat trained, and fairly well armed americans have a very good chance of winning.

[kirtland r.m.]

Who needs a gun when you can call down fire from heaven?

Sometimes that has happened, sometimes Israel has fought with weapons other than fire from
heaven.

[brianj]

The Lord will protect us. But we have to do the footwork.
dc

I wish this was true. The Lord will protect us temporally, when it is in His plan to do so. In Alma 14, while Alma and Amulek are held captive, the wicked leaders of the land brought together their wives and children, and everybody who believed, and threw them into a fire (14:8). It sounds pretty gruesome, as in 14:10 Amulek was so disturbed by the screaming of those martyrs that he wanted to use the priesthood to stop the murders. Alma seems to already have considered this action, as he was ready with the answer that he felt constrained from doing so. In Alma 24, the Lamanites attack the Anti-Nephi-Lehis. Verse 22 says 1,005 believers were murdered that day. I could post many other examples.

Heavenly Father has unique plans for each of us. Some of us will be miraculously protected, and I believe that I have had that experience more than once in the past. But if part or our mission is to become martyrs so the judgements against the wicked will be justified. And, considering what Joseph Smith taught about the sacrifice of all things plus what the scriptures teach about not putting family above God, I would not be surprised if some of us lose family members just so we can be tried.

[David13]

My experience is that a bully is a bully. Doesn't matter if that bully is taking your lunch on the playground or taking your life in camp. A bully is emboldened and strengthened by the perception of weakness, but they always stand down when they perceive their opponent will fight back. That's why we should never give up our right to bear arms.

I agree completely, Todd.

It's interesting the reasons people give why they wouldn't mind being completely disarmed, often citing the case of the People of Ammon who would rather die than take up arms. But what did Nephi do?

2 Nephi 5:14

14 And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us; for I knew their hatred towards me and my children and those who were called my people.

In the previous chapter he warned against relying upon the arm of the flesh, then his very next words are "And I...did make many swords". Nephi knew the Lord was his strength, yet it was his responsibility to defend his people, his wife and children. There might be a lesson there, if we're paying attention... maybe even several lessons.

I also love the whole B.S. liberal argument that the military would utterly waste any uprising in america because of advanced technology and training.

Which would make sense if you have never heard of the war in Afghanistan, because ya know we left and the Taliban is still 60,000+ deep in that place.

Now it seems to me that if those uneducated under equipped and ill trained Taliban fighters can cause so much of a ruckus that we just leave then well educated, somewhat trained, and fairly well armed americans have a very good chance of winning.

Don't forget that it just wasn't the US military forces.
The Rooskies spent ten years there trying to do the same thing. Tame the Afghanis. And finally gave up and left. So then what happens? The foolish Americans come in to try the same thing. And fail.

One other factor, how many of the US Army are going to go after American citizens? Answer: Not all of them. Quite a few just won't do it.
dc

[David13]

The Lord will protect us. But we have to do the footwork.
dc

I wish this was true. The Lord will protect us temporally, when it is in His plan to do so. In Alma 14, while Alma and Amulek are held captive, the wicked leaders of the land brought together their wives and children, and everybody who believed, and threw them into a fire (14:8). It sounds pretty gruesome, as in 14:10 Amulek was so disturbed by the screaming of those martyrs that he wanted to use the priesthood to stop the murders. Alma seems to already have considered this action, as he was ready with the answer that he felt constrained from doing so. In Alma 24, the Lamanites attack the Anti-Nephi-Lehis. Verse 22 says 1,005 believers were murdered that day. I could post many other examples.

Heavenly Father has unique plans for each of us. Some of us will be miraculously protected, and I believe that I have had that experience more than once in the past. But if part or our mission is to become martyrs so the judgements against the wicked will be justified. And, considering what Joseph Smith taught about the sacrifice of all things plus what the scriptures teach about not putting family above God, I would not be surprised if some of us lose family members just so we can be tried.

Brian
I'm not sure if you are understanding me or not, and if you are responding to what I mean or not.
The Lord will provide for us.
But we have to go to work and work the job to get the paycheck that provides for us.
The Lord will protect us.
But we have to tote the gun which will do the protecting.
dc

[friendsofthe]

According to scripture there is a time to come when a global cabal is to “make war with the saints, and to overcome them”. From Rev. 13 we read:

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

John says “and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months” and “it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them”. I take that to mean that the Lord will allow this to come about and will not bring an end to it until after the “forty and two months” has run it’s course.

So considering that these events will surely come to pass, we will all be forced to decide for ourselves how we will react. I think the only prudent course is to be sure to follow the direction of the brethren. Somehow I just don’t see them advising us to go to war with the government.

I think these events are destined to test “the patience and the faith of the saints” as John says. The saints however will be delivered, as the Lord says in section 103, “ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm”. We shall not be able to deliver ourselves, it will be the arm of the Lord that will bring an end to these trials.

[isaacs2066]

According to scripture there is a time to come when a global cabal is to “make war with the saints, and to overcome them”. From Rev. 13 we read:

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

John says “and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months” and “it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them”. I take that to mean that the Lord will allow this to come about and will not bring an end to it until after the “forty and two months” has run it’s course.

So considering that these events will surely come to pass, we will all be forced to decide for ourselves how we will react. I think the only prudent course is to be sure to follow the direction of the brethren. Somehow I just don’t see them advising us to go to war with the government.

I think these events are destined to test “the patience and the faith of the saints” as John says. The saints however will be delivered, as the Lord says in section 103, “ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm”. We shall not be able to deliver ourselves, it will be the arm of the Lord that will bring an end to these trials.

Already happened, was called the inquisition...

[isaacs2066]

My experience is that a bully is a bully. Doesn't matter if that bully is taking your lunch on the playground or taking your life in camp. A bully is emboldened and strengthened by the perception of weakness, but they always stand down when they perceive their opponent will fight back. That's why we should never give up our right to bear arms.

I agree completely, Todd.

It's interesting the reasons people give why they wouldn't mind being completely disarmed, often citing the case of the People of Ammon who would rather die than take up arms. But what did Nephi do?

2 Nephi 5:14

14 And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us; for I knew their hatred towards me and my children and those who were called my people.

In the previous chapter he warned against relying upon the arm of the flesh, then his very next words are "And I...did make many swords". Nephi knew the Lord was his strength, yet it was his responsibility to defend his people, his wife and children. There might be a lesson there, if we're paying attention... maybe even several lessons.

I also love the whole B.S. liberal argument that the military would utterly waste any uprising in america because of advanced technology and training.

Which would make sense if you have never heard of the war in Afghanistan, because ya know we left and the Taliban is still 60,000+ deep in that place.

Now it seems to me that if those uneducated under equipped and ill trained Taliban fighters can cause so much of a ruckus that we just leave then well educated, somewhat trained, and fairly well armed americans have a very good chance of winning.

Don't forget that it just wasn't the US military forces.
The Rooskies spent ten years there trying to do the same thing. Tame the Afghanis. And finally gave up and left. So then what happens? The foolish Americans come in to try the same thing. And fail.

One other factor, how many of the US Army are going to go after American citizens? Answer: Not all of them. Quite a few just won't do it.
dc

There is a good video that gives a little history I found on youtube that you might like.

Can't remember the name of it off the top of my head but if you type in Churchill and Afghanistan it should come up.

It has some good insights on insurgencies in general.

[M249Gunner]

Who needs a gun when you can call down fire from heaven?

I still need one because I don't think He allows people to use that power for target practice or sheer enjoyment. That is part of what firearm ownership is for.

[iWriteStuff]

Who needs a gun when you can call down fire from heaven?

I still need one because I don't think He allows people to use that power for target practice or sheer enjoyment. That is part of what firearm ownership is for.

Amen! Plus the neighbors find it less attractive when compared to plinking into a private berm in the safety of my back yard. Fireballs from heaven? Yeah, the HOA might frown on that ;)

[Sandinista]

I was totally disturbed by some of the posts in this thread, so I was "forced" to go out on Saturday and buy a new Ruger American pistol in .45 ACP! Sweet gun, and I'm not giving it up.

[iWriteStuff]

I was totally disturbed by some of the posts in this thread, so I was "forced" to go out on Saturday and buy a new Ruger American pistol in .45 ACP! Sweet gun, and I'm not giving it up.

I'm so totally jealous right now! :((

[brianj]

I was totally disturbed by some of the posts in this thread, so I was "forced" to go out on Saturday and buy a new Ruger American pistol in .45 ACP! Sweet gun, and I'm not giving it up.

What's the over the counter price for one of those? And how was shooting it?

I'm a 1911 kind of guy, but I would love to give the Ruger American a try.

[Sandinista]

The MSRP is $579. I got it for $469.

I haven't shot it yet; storm came in this week and it's been snowy and cold! If it warms up enough this next week I'll go to the range and let you know what it's like.

[iWriteStuff]

The MSRP is $579. I got it for $469.

I haven't shot it yet; storm came in this week and it's been snowy and cold! If it warms up enough this next week I'll go to the range and let you know what it's like.

Where did you scoop up such an amazing deal? I might have to reconsider one at that price....

[Sandinista]

Store called Olde English Outfitters in Tipp City Ohio. they sell on the internet as well under http://www.oeoutfitters.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

They have Ruger Americans in both .45ACP and 9MM on their website for $469.99.