Guns! Guns! Guns!

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abelchirino
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by abelchirino »

iWriteStuff wrote:
abelchirino wrote:I have a few quick questions for gun owners in LDSFF.

Is it cheaper or more expensive to buy a pistol/shotgun/rifle at a gun show as compared to gun store? What has been your experience at gun shows? I've noticed that things are usually more expensive at a gun store than at Academy, but I've never been to a gun show. I live in Houston, Texas, and I assume it shouldn't be difficult for me to find one around but I want to hear from those with more experience.
I've found a few deals at gun shows, and I've been to plenty. But how do you know if you found a deal? I use the following website/online store as kind of my Blue Book for fair market value on guns:

http://www.budsgunshop.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Free shipping, no tax, and pick up at your local gun shop for a modest transfer fee. I've purchased almost half of my guns there, usually anywhere from 10%-20% cheaper than you'll find in places like Cabela's, Gander Mountain, Billy Bob Redneck's Pawn and Tattoo, etc. A friend of mine has better luck with

http://www.gunbroker.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Main point is know the fair market value before committing to purchase. And if you're good at it, haggle down the price. Otherwise avoid gun shows: they're mostly there for collectors of rare guns/parts/memorabilia and to rip off gun noobs.
Going back to the original subject, iWriteStuff, do you own rifles?

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by iWriteStuff »

abelchirino wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
abelchirino wrote:I have a few quick questions for gun owners in LDSFF.

Is it cheaper or more expensive to buy a pistol/shotgun/rifle at a gun show as compared to gun store? What has been your experience at gun shows? I've noticed that things are usually more expensive at a gun store than at Academy, but I've never been to a gun show. I live in Houston, Texas, and I assume it shouldn't be difficult for me to find one around but I want to hear from those with more experience.
I've found a few deals at gun shows, and I've been to plenty. But how do you know if you found a deal? I use the following website/online store as kind of my Blue Book for fair market value on guns:

http://www.budsgunshop.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Free shipping, no tax, and pick up at your local gun shop for a modest transfer fee. I've purchased almost half of my guns there, usually anywhere from 10%-20% cheaper than you'll find in places like Cabela's, Gander Mountain, Billy Bob Redneck's Pawn and Tattoo, etc. A friend of mine has better luck with

http://www.gunbroker.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Main point is know the fair market value before committing to purchase. And if you're good at it, haggle down the price. Otherwise avoid gun shows: they're mostly there for collectors of rare guns/parts/memorabilia and to rip off gun noobs.
Going back to the original subject, iWriteStuff, do you own rifles?
Plenty! I've always loved shooting rifles, be they of whatever caliber. Shotguns are pretty fun, too, and I enjoy shooting trap but I prefer rifles. I'm also an NRA pistol instructor. I don't hunt, although I have nothing against hunters/hunting, but I love the hobby.

Emmanuel
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Re: Guns! BS SAYS NO!

Post by Emmanuel »

abelchirino wrote:
Emmanuel wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the third iteration of BurningSword: Emmanuel.

And dude, normally I like reading your stuff but now you're kinda getting obnoxious. You're condemning every soldier who has ever served in defense of his country and every man who has defended his wife and children from murderous robbers.

I agree that it is always ALWAYS best to abstain from shedding blood. But I will not stand idly by while someone sheds the blood of my wife or children. If you don't think God will understand that, and that the scriptures back this up in every way possible, then I guess we agree to disagree.
We suffered that many fell into underworlds including some of our prophets for mysterious reasons, it has always been about saving the souls from the Outer Darkness from Abaddon the Devil. Few ever made it to Abraham's Bosom to await the resurrection and not many will be part of the first resurrection compared to the later, but it will be a greater number still since it includes all generations. If you knew who I was you would actually listen and the reason this world soon enters it tribulation is what I and my two witnesses have been doing the last 33 years. I am the man you shall all see and be given remembrance of in final day of great tribulation when the very universe catches on fire in my coming as the cleansing Light, Justice is mine and mine alone and all judgement is given to me... Behold I soon become whole and end cometh quickly and their is consequences to peoples actions while I was among them as a Son of man which by eternal law will manifest as it is written. This is why I have called all to repentance time is soon up the four angels are already prepared.
Alright Emmanuel, I would consider having this conservation with you but on another thread. You have made your point that using a weapon, even to defend your life or that of your family, will condemn you. We can see that you don't agree with using weapons and up to a certain point, there is a case to be made-I give that to you. I also look forward to the day when nations "shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks" and when "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." However, I would ask that you respect this thread enough to keep it as a pro-gun thread.
The time is now woe unto those who lift the sword in the days of darkness ahead for it is not like any other time in the world, and by lifting the sword satan gains power to slay and claim them. I will leave this thread as you requested, may it help some avoid greater woes. Peace

abelchirino
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by abelchirino »

iWriteStuff wrote:
abelchirino wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
abelchirino wrote:I have a few quick questions for gun owners in LDSFF.

Is it cheaper or more expensive to buy a pistol/shotgun/rifle at a gun show as compared to gun store? What has been your experience at gun shows? I've noticed that things are usually more expensive at a gun store than at Academy, but I've never been to a gun show. I live in Houston, Texas, and I assume it shouldn't be difficult for me to find one around but I want to hear from those with more experience.
I've found a few deals at gun shows, and I've been to plenty. But how do you know if you found a deal? I use the following website/online store as kind of my Blue Book for fair market value on guns:

http://www.budsgunshop.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Free shipping, no tax, and pick up at your local gun shop for a modest transfer fee. I've purchased almost half of my guns there, usually anywhere from 10%-20% cheaper than you'll find in places like Cabela's, Gander Mountain, Billy Bob Redneck's Pawn and Tattoo, etc. A friend of mine has better luck with

http://www.gunbroker.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Main point is know the fair market value before committing to purchase. And if you're good at it, haggle down the price. Otherwise avoid gun shows: they're mostly there for collectors of rare guns/parts/memorabilia and to rip off gun noobs.
Going back to the original subject, iWriteStuff, do you own rifles?
Plenty! I've always loved shooting rifles, be they of whatever caliber. Shotguns are pretty fun, too, and I enjoy shooting trap but I prefer rifles. I'm also an NRA pistol instructor. I don't hunt, although I have nothing against hunters/hunting, but I love the hobby.
I have been thinking about buying an AK-47. What do you think about these types of rifles (AR-15, etc.)? One of the websites that I was directed to, earlier in the thread, sells .22 AK's, what is your opinion, or favorite, on these types of rifles and the calibers?

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by iWriteStuff »

abelchirino wrote: I have been thinking about buying an AK-47. What do you think about these types of rifles (AR-15, etc.)? One of the websites that I was directed to, earlier in the thread, sells .22 AK's, what is your opinion, or favorite, on these types of rifles and the calibers?
Love me some AK, but you need to know where it was built (Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, USA, etc) and by whom. The 7.62x39 round is pretty easy to come by, relatively cheap by military-style rifle standards, and the AK brand in general can eat a load of dirt and keep on firing. Compare that to the AR-15 alternative, where a variance in buffer spring power can jam up the whole rifle until you finally replace parts. That being said, I've built several ARs and I own an AK as well.

However, my AK is the AK-74 variant, using 5.45x39 rounds instead of the 7.62x39. The round is more ballistically similar to the 5.56x45 round that AR-15s use except a whole lot cheaper than both (5.45x39 can be picked up for anywhere between $.13 to $.25 per round vs. $.50/rd for AR and ~$.35/rd for 7.62x39). I've also built an AR chambered in this caliber as well and it's one of my best shooters, but that's another story.

Dizzy yet?

Bottom line, I wouldn't think twice about getting an AK. They are a beast and easy to use in all environments. All the same, I might avoid the .22 variant if I were you. Most are actually not as reliable since the .22 doesn't always generate enough recoil to cycle the bolt 100% of the time. Lastly, if you're going for an AK, try to get one with a chrome-lined barrel. Most of the 7.62 ammo coming out of Eastern Bloc countries is kinda dirty stuff and the chrome lining will keep your barrel from get too much corrosion.

If you're going for a cheap(er) .22 in the AR platform, I'd recommend the Smith & Wesson AR-1522. That thing will cycle even crappy .22 rounds without a hiccup. Can be had for under $500. I got mine for $419 a few years ago.

(Edit: I think part of my fascination with the hobby is related to my love of mechanics. I love figuring out how stuff works, playing with different configurations, testing this and that until I've got something perfect. Certain gun platforms are like Lego sets for a grown up kid like me.)
Last edited by iWriteStuff on September 2nd, 2015, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

abelchirino
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Posts: 526

Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by abelchirino »

iWriteStuff wrote:
abelchirino wrote: I have been thinking about buying an AK-47. What do you think about these types of rifles (AR-15, etc.)? One of the websites that I was directed to, earlier in the thread, sells .22 AK's, what is your opinion, or favorite, on these types of rifles and the calibers?
Love me some AK, but you need to know where it was built (Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, USA, etc) and by whom. The 7.62x39 round is pretty easy to come by, relatively cheap by military-style rifle standards, and the AK brand in general can eat a load of dirt and keep on firing. Compare that to the AR-15 alternative, where a variance in butt pad spring power can jam up the whole rifle until you finally replace parts. That being said, I've built several ARs and I own an AK as well.

However, my AK is the AK-74 variant, using 5.45x39 rounds instead of the 7.62x39. The round is more ballistically similar to the 5.56x45 round that AR-15s use except a whole lot cheaper than both (5.45x39 can be picked up for anywhere between $.13 to $.25 per round vs. $.50/rd for AR and ~$.35/rd for 7.62x39). I've also built an AR chambered in this caliber as well and it's one of my best shooters, but that's another story.

Dizzy yet?

Bottom line, I wouldn't think twice about getting an AK. They are a beast and easy to use in all environments. All the same, I might avoid the .22 variant if I were you. Most are actually not as reliable since the .22 doesn't always generate enough recoil to cycle the bolt 100% of the time. Lastly, if you're going for an AK, try to get one with a chrome-lined barrel. Most of the 7.62 ammo coming out of Eastern Bloc countries is kinda dirty stuff and the chrome lining will keep your barrel from get too much corrosion.

If you're going for a cheap(er) .22 in the AR platform, I'd recommend the Smith & Wesson AR-1522. That thing will cycle even crappy .22 rounds without a hiccup. Can be had for under $500. I got mine for $419 a few years ago.
Wow, this is pretty good information. Tactically, is there any value to the .22 variant in a SHTF or intruder scenario? I know many sort of like to look down on .22 caliber, almost as if it were a kiddy caliber.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by iWriteStuff »

abelchirino wrote: Wow, this is pretty good information. Tactically, is there any value to the .22 variant in a SHTF or intruder scenario? I know many sort of like to look down on .22 caliber, almost as if it were a kiddy caliber.
Tactically.... well, you can carry a lot more rounds without adding a load of weight to your pack. A box of 550 rds (which should cost $25 or under, depending on where you shop) gives you plenty of ammo to shoot and weighs probably under 5 lbs I think. Compare that to the 7.62x39, which weighs a ton more, meaning you can't carry as much (space + weight = not ideal). That being said, the 7.62 can take down deer/elk/bears/whatever, whereas I don't think I'd try the .22 on anything bigger than a rabbit. Not quite humane unless you're able to land perfect headshots, and even then it might not go down.

As per intruder, well, .22s can kill a human (if that's what you intend in self-defense) but it may require more rounds to do it. The main problem is the rounds lack the kinetic energy to stop a rushing adult, unless you plan on wrestling them after shooting them. I have plenty of respect for .22s, and I have more guns in that caliber than any other, but I'm not sure how ideal they would be in the scenarios you're describing without loads and loads of practice.

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BTH&T
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Re: Guns! BS SAYS NO!

Post by BTH&T »

Matchmaker wrote:Is this the way Melchizedek Priesthood holders respond to those whose views differ from theirs - laughing and joking about serious things? No wonder so many people slam the doors in the Elders' faces.
Matchmaker,
In your topic " Real Suggestions for how to get out of Spiritual Babylon" you seek to follow the Lord and Savoir to align yourself with God.
That too is my hearts desire.
As Priesthood holders we should stand up for truth and when there are those that are teaching in error and false doctrine we should not remain silent.
Point it out is what I do with those that I am impressed to do so with. Doing so in as kind a way as possible.

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skmo
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Re: Guns! BS SAYS NO!

Post by skmo »

Emmanuel wrote:The time is now woe unto those who lift the sword in the days of darkness ahead for it is not like any other time in the world, and by lifting the sword satan gains power to slay and claim them. I will leave this thread as you requested, may it help some avoid greater woes. Peace
The time is now, woe unto those who can't read the simple words "Don't derail this thread with silly anti-gun crap" lest they get placed on 'Foes" to be ignored. I don't personally place anyone in this category, because as a former school teacher I am used to reading and deciphering all manner of near senseless gibberish, but not everyone is similarly equipped to wade through.

Gun shows have good and bad. Do plenty of online research first and you'll have a better idea what to look for in person. Type in "Omline gun dealer" into Yahoo and several good choices come up. I like Gunbroker myself, there you get individuals as well as dealers, and it's easier to find specific items.

As an example: I like the Ruger GP100 with the stainless 6" barrel, but I don't like the full lug on the barrel. They haven't made the half-lug barrel for quite some time, but I found one on gunbroker.com. I also really liked the original Ruger 77/22 in the all weather skeletonized stock, now out of production for many, many years but again I found one on that site.

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Obrien
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by Obrien »

abelchirino wrote:Thanks everyone for your advice. I have a handgun already but I'm looking to buy something different. A rifle or a shotgun maybe.
You have two hands, right? Why would you be satisfied with A handgun?
I would recommend the exact same handgun, rifle and shotgun for each member of your family, at a minimum. Get common calibers (.22, 9mm, .40 cal, 12 gauge, 30-06, 7.62x39. .308 etc) and plenty of magazines.
Oh, and get holsters and slings, too.
Oh, and ammo, too.
Oh, and if your a rookie, get some training, too, so you don't kill or injure yourself or someone you love.

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skmo
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by skmo »

Obrien wrote:You have two hands, right? Why would you be satisfied with A handgun?
I can see limiting yourself to one handgun when funds are limited. Were that the case, I'd want it to be able to work in a dual protection/hunting role as well as I can reasonably control. For me, that means a .45 Auto, a .357 revolver, or a .44 revolver in that order of preference. I'd gladly carry any of those for protection and I'd hunt anything in the Lower 48 with them.

As for long guns, that's a little more difficult. There I'd say there's a 3 gun minimum when possible. A good, reliable and accurate .22 (.22 magnum is also okay) a high powered rifle in a big game caliber (.260 as a minimum up through whatever you can comfortably shoot) and a 12 gauge shotgun, preferably a pump.

A 22 is a great survival rifle. Ammo is the least expensive and the easiest to carry. I like the 10/22 Takedown and the Marlin 70 Papoose, but the new Henry Arms AR7 is also nice (some of the older AR7s were a real crap shoot on quality, Henry has really stepped up to make a quality gun of it.) My first choice in that right now is my Ruger 77/22 Magnum. Foolproof bolt action, removable box magazine, accurate to 100 yards.

For a big game gun, I like bolt actions for their simplicity. That said, my current first choice would be my custom built AR10 on an Armalite Magnum frame chambered in 7mm-08. I'll hunt anything in North America with that gun. That said, when I lived in Alaska, my choice for moose was an M77 in .338 Win Mag.

A shotgun is the Godfather of protection guns. Nothing brings peace of mind walking in bear country like the sound of a Mossberg 590 chambering a Brenneke rifled slug and the knowledge that there are 8 more behind it. Nothing says "This house is safe" like the growl of my German Shepherd and my 590 with 9 shells of #4 buckshot in it.

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skmo
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by skmo »

One consideration I like from the Old West: A handgun and rifle in the same caliber. When I was going out in Alaska not specifically hunting anything, a lot of the time I'd carry a Super Redhawk in .454 Casull and a stainless Puma92 lever action rifle also in .454 Casull. The revolver held 6 shots, the rifle held 8 shots. The .454 has about 50% more muzzle energy than the vaunted .44 Magnum. That was a nice set up, I liked carrying it.

christian.a
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by christian.a »

iWriteStuff wrote:
abelchirino wrote: I have been thinking about buying an AK-47. What do you think about these types of rifles (AR-15, etc.)? One of the websites that I was directed to, earlier in the thread, sells .22 AK's, what is your opinion, or favorite, on these types of rifles and the calibers?
Love me some AK, but you need to know where it was built (Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, USA, etc) and by whom. The 7.62x39 round is pretty easy to come by, relatively cheap by military-style rifle standards, and the AK brand in general can eat a load of dirt and keep on firing. Compare that to the AR-15 alternative, where a variance in buffer spring power can jam up the whole rifle until you finally replace parts. That being said, I've built several ARs and I own an AK as well.

However, my AK is the AK-74 variant, using 5.45x39 rounds instead of the 7.62x39. The round is more ballistically similar to the 5.56x45 round that AR-15s use except a whole lot cheaper than both (5.45x39 can be picked up for anywhere between $.13 to $.25 per round vs. $.50/rd for AR and ~$.35/rd for 7.62x39). I've also built an AR chambered in this caliber as well and it's one of my best shooters, but that's another story.

Dizzy yet?

Bottom line, I wouldn't think twice about getting an AK. They are a beast and easy to use in all environments. All the same, I might avoid the .22 variant if I were you. Most are actually not as reliable since the .22 doesn't always generate enough recoil to cycle the bolt 100% of the time. Lastly, if you're going for an AK, try to get one with a chrome-lined barrel. Most of the 7.62 ammo coming out of Eastern Bloc countries is kinda dirty stuff and the chrome lining will keep your barrel from get too much corrosion.

If you're going for a cheap(er) .22 in the AR platform, I'd recommend the Smith & Wesson AR-1522. That thing will cycle even crappy .22 rounds without a hiccup. Can be had for under $500. I got mine for $419 a few years ago.

(Edit: I think part of my fascination with the hobby is related to my love of mechanics. I love figuring out how stuff works, playing with different configurations, testing this and that until I've got something perfect. Certain gun platforms are like Lego sets for a grown up kid like me.)

I'm not trying to knock the AK and promote the AR, but what I will say is an AR can be made to shoot with a better precision than an AK at a lower cost. It also depends on who makes your AK.

The trade off: iWriteStuff hit the nail on the head. AR brass comes to be about $.50 a round. Yikes. The AK can slog through water or a swamp and you could really submerge the thing. Many people do "torture tests" on them, and the secret to its reliability is less moving parts. Whereas an AR you have to take care of. Most of them you would still have to really torture them to make them not work, but what it comes down to;

AR: Precision and accuracy for a budget, compromised to work for you, good quality.
AK: Reliability, cheap ammo, less upkeep needed.

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Obrien
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by Obrien »

skmo wrote:
Obrien wrote:You have two hands, right? Why would you be satisfied with A handgun?
I can see limiting yourself to one handgun when funds are limited. Were that the case, I'd want it to be able to work in a dual protection/hunting role as well as I can reasonably control. For me, that means a .45 Auto, a .357 revolver, or a .44 revolver in that order of preference. I'd gladly carry any of those for protection and I'd hunt anything in the Lower 48 with them.

As for long guns, that's a little more difficult. There I'd say there's a 3 gun minimum when possible. A good, reliable and accurate .22 (.22 magnum is also okay) a high powered rifle in a big game caliber (.260 as a minimum up through whatever you can comfortably shoot) and a 12 gauge shotgun, preferably a pump.

A 22 is a great survival rifle. Ammo is the least expensive and the easiest to carry. I like the 10/22 Takedown and the Marlin 70 Papoose, but the new Henry Arms AR7 is also nice (some of the older AR7s were a real crap shoot on quality, Henry has really stepped up to make a quality gun of it.) My first choice in that right now is my Ruger 77/22 Magnum. Foolproof bolt action, removable box magazine, accurate to 100 yards.

For a big game gun, I like bolt actions for their simplicity. That said, my current first choice would be my custom built AR10 on an Armalite Magnum frame chambered in 7mm-08. I'll hunt anything in North America with that gun. That said, when I lived in Alaska, my choice for moose was an M77 in .338 Win Mag.

A shotgun is the Godfather of protection guns. Nothing brings peace of mind walking in bear country like the sound of a Mossberg 590 chambering a Brenneke rifled slug and the knowledge that there are 8 more behind it. Nothing says "This house is safe" like the growl of my German Shepherd and my 590 with 9 shells of #4 buckshot in it.
Can't knock your thoughts above.

My advice was more for family preparedness in a social collapse, urban violence environment. Also, the advice to outfit everyone with the same tools is for simplicity - less types of ammo to store, interchangeable parts and training, and minimum thought required by less experienced shooters. Also, get something most everyone in the family can shoot. My 8 year old can handle a 9mm, but would have difficulty with a .357's recoil and "noise". He can also handle a 7.62x39 with s rest. A .338 would kill HIM.

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skmo
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by skmo »

Good points. I like the simplicity of a revolver, though. My one favorite handgun in the world is my GP100 stainless with a 6" half-lug barrel. Loaded with .38 Special loads, it kicks less and is about the same noise level as my Glock 19. I was reminded of how great a revolver can be when I fell and broke my wrist a few years ago. There was no way I could pull back the slide on any of my autos, but my revolvers all did just fine. I decided the GP100 was too big for everyday carry, so we got a Ruger LCR which really impressed me. I'll admit, with .357 loads, it's VERY loud and has quite a kick, but with .38s it's very manageable.

One of my other favorite handguns is my Taurus 941 which is an 8-shot .22 Magnum revolver. No kick and 8 shots. only a 5" barrel, so I won't win target comps with it, but I can and do hit jack rabbits out here in the Uintah Basin.

I have to say, though, my first choice for a protection carry gun has to be my (sadly gone, since I owed my cousin) HK USP Tactical .45 Auto. I could shoot inside a quarter all day at 25 yards with it, and with the suppressor I'd do it without ear protection. I miss that gun.

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skmo
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by skmo »

Oh, a word on my .338: I had Barnes make a custom muzzle brake for it. It actually had less felt recoil than the 30.06 I sold to buy the .338 with before we moved to Alaska.

brianj
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by brianj »

Back to the subject of AR-15 versus AK-47, I would like to point out the following:
The AK-47 is probably the most reliable gun ever built. Load one, toss it into the muddy corner of a pig pen, forget about it for a year, and when you finally dig it out and pull the trigger it will fire and cycle.
The AR-15, on the other hand, needs regular cleaning and lubricating. If the barrel or action filled with mud, or there was even a little dirt in the muzzle of an AR, I would want to clear it before shooting.

However, the AR-15 is very accurate. In the US Marine Corps, I understand the M16 rifle qualification course still includes a stage from the 500 meter line, as I enjoyed many years ago. The heavily abused M16 rifles used in boot camp, using standard military ammo, are accurate enough to reliably hit a human silhouette target at 500 meters. With the AK-47 I wouldn't want to try hitting anything more than 200 yards away.

The other issue to consider is stopping power. The 7.62x39mm round is ballistically similar to the very popular .30-30 round that is often used for deer hunting. I wouldn't rely on the 5.56x45 round to take down a deer or anything else larger than a coyote, and would only rely on a 7.62x39 round for deer if I was using an expanding bullet. Please note I don't have any experience with 5.45x39.

I would also say that no rifle collection is complete without a .22, and that my preference in .22LR is the Ruger 10/22 due to the tremendous number of aftermarket parts available for that platform. I have shot groups smaller than an inch at 100 yards and about 2.5 inches at 200 yards with a heavily modified 10/22 and the right ammo. A .22 is good for practice and hunting small game up to wolves or coyotes. The ammo is cheap, small, and light enough to purchase and store a large quantity for end of society scenarios.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by iWriteStuff »

Obrien wrote:Oh, and if your a rookie, get some training, too, so you don't kill or injure yourself or someone you love.
Training is HUGE. Get it. Don't be afraid to spend as much as you did on your gun to learn how to use it properly. In my ward, I teach people nearly for free, mostly because I don't want to be accidentally shot in the back on camping trips or Elders' Quorum activities. You will shorten your learning curve and keep yourself safe in the process.

Most of all, don't learn how to shoot by watching Hollywood movies. Those folks would be a danger to themselves if the guns they were shooting were real.

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Sandinista
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by Sandinista »

I love this thread! Everyone has their opinions and you know what? That's just fine! Practice a lot with a lot of different handguns, rifles, and shotguns. Find out what you like and then practice some more. I personally prefer .22 caliber Ruger 10/22's and have several of them including a takedown model in my 72 hour pack along with 600 rounds loaded in 25 round magazines. I prefer AR-15 platforms over AK-47 platforms mainly because that's what I'm used to and have several configured in different ways. But it's a personal preference. I love Glocks and have several (Glock 19 is my personal carry weapon - easy to shoot, cheap, and effective if you know what you are doing). My wife carries a Glock 26 as her personal carry weapon, but other women in our ward like revolvers like the Ruger LCR which you can get in various calibers, or something similar. I also have handguns by Ruger and Smith&Wesson, both semi-auto and revolvers in various calibers and love shooting them all. I have "hunting" rifles by Winchester and Remington, among others, in 7x57mm Mauser, .257 Roberts, .308 Winchester, .30-30, .30-06, and more. All great to shoot for their intended game. Shotguns I prefer Brownings and Mossbergs, again various models.

One thing I do recommend is to learn to reload your own ammunition. It's a great hobby, keeps the cost of ammunition reasonable, and allows you to really "dial in" what you are shooting. I load a lot more than just the ammunition/calibers I personally shoot, and support my friends and family members (no I don't charge them, I just like the hobby!).

So take the advice of several members who have commented on this thread. Do ask a lot of questions like you are doing, learn about the weapons you are considering, try them out/practice with them, and find what you are comfortable with. And then practice some more! :)

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LostAndFoundAgain
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Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by LostAndFoundAgain »

abelchirino wrote: I live in Houston, Texas, and I assume it shouldn't be difficult for me to find one around but I want to hear from those with more experience.
I am in Houston as well- about 15 minutes from the Temple.

You are welcome to PM me if you would like some insight, or just want to go to the range. Weather is awesome right now!

+1 on BUDS

moving2zion
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Posts: 550

Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by moving2zion »

Back to guns boys;
I have enjoyed using cheaperthandirt.com though their prices on firearms have wobbled around a bit. They are great for picking up accessories. Along with getting to know your local gun store, I would also suggest sticking with what's tried and true, the fancy schmancy stuff is often not available or on back order. I have tried to get a Keltec KSG or RFB ever since they came out. I have only seen two on a gun dealers shelf, both back east in Pennsylvania and they wanted 400 over retail on both. So find what your comfortable with, and if possible easy to get parts for and stick with that.

Mala_Suerte
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Posts: 204
Location: Western Slope

Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by Mala_Suerte »

iWriteStuff wrote:
abelchirino wrote: Wow, this is pretty good information. Tactically, is there any value to the .22 variant in a SHTF or intruder scenario? I know many sort of like to look down on .22 caliber, almost as if it were a kiddy caliber.
Tactically.... well, you can carry a lot more rounds without adding a load of weight to your pack. A box of 550 rds (which should cost $25 or under, depending on where you shop) gives you plenty of ammo to shoot and weighs probably under 5 lbs I think. Compare that to the 7.62x39, which weighs a ton more, meaning you can't carry as much (space + weight = not ideal). That being said, the 7.62 can take down deer/elk/bears/whatever, whereas I don't think I'd try the .22 on anything bigger than a rabbit. Not quite humane unless you're able to land perfect headshots, and even then it might not go down.

As per intruder, well, .22s can kill a human (if that's what you intend in self-defense) but it may require more rounds to do it. The main problem is the rounds lack the kinetic energy to stop a rushing adult, unless you plan on wrestling them after shooting them. I have plenty of respect for .22s, and I have more guns in that caliber than any other, but I'm not sure how ideal they would be in the scenarios you're describing without loads and loads of practice.
Good post, but I wanted to correct the part in bold. A 7.62x39 is not the appropriate round for elk, bears or other large game. It has similar stopping power to a 30-30, which is plenty for deer w/i a reasonable distance. I think iWriteStuff was thinking of the 7.62x51 (.308).

As to some of the earlier questions in this thread, gun shows can be a bargain hunters dream if you know what you're looking for and what is a good price. I've had good luck at gun shows, but I also passed up a lot of guns that were "kind of a good deal".

For good ammo prices check http://ammoseek.com/ The site basically functions as a google of ammo prices, searching out the prices from lots and lots of companies.

In the past, if you were on a budget, you'd likely buy an sks, then maybe later spend more on an ak and then even more on an ar. But right now, at least, the prices on ars are sufficiently low, you'd be smart to just jump to the ar. You can pick up a good quality ar for less than $500 on sale and less than $600 regularly - budsgunshop.com has great sales. The biggest difference, now, price-wise btwn an ak and an ar is ammo. Previously, ars were much more than aks, but the last couple cycles of prices shooting up and coming back down have left aks much more money - and the fact that the current administration has banned import from Russia of a lot of, if not all, guns.

Ok, back to lurking for me.

abelchirino
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Posts: 526

Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by abelchirino »

Wow! So much information and I'm very thankful for all the advice. I haven't had much time to respond because my wife gave birth to our second daughter last month and college began last month as well. My life has been a bit hectic. I will now take some time to respond.

abelchirino
captain of 100
Posts: 526

Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by abelchirino »

iWriteStuff wrote:
abelchirino wrote: Wow, this is pretty good information. Tactically, is there any value to the .22 variant in a SHTF or intruder scenario? I know many sort of like to look down on .22 caliber, almost as if it were a kiddy caliber.
Tactically.... well, you can carry a lot more rounds without adding a load of weight to your pack. A box of 550 rds (which should cost $25 or under, depending on where you shop) gives you plenty of ammo to shoot and weighs probably under 5 lbs I think. Compare that to the 7.62x39, which weighs a ton more, meaning you can't carry as much (space + weight = not ideal). That being said, the 7.62 can take down deer/elk/bears/whatever, whereas I don't think I'd try the .22 on anything bigger than a rabbit. Not quite humane unless you're able to land perfect headshots, and even then it might not go down.

As per intruder, well, .22s can kill a human (if that's what you intend in self-defense) but it may require more rounds to do it. The main problem is the rounds lack the kinetic energy to stop a rushing adult, unless you plan on wrestling them after shooting them. I have plenty of respect for .22s, and I have more guns in that caliber than any other, but I'm not sure how ideal they would be in the scenarios you're describing without loads and loads of practice.
Hmmm, well I guess that's a bit of a dilemma then. "Do you want more stopping power, but more weight?" It makes this emergency preparedness just a bit more complicated.

abelchirino
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Posts: 526

Re: Guns! Guns! Guns!

Post by abelchirino »

Obrien wrote:
abelchirino wrote:Thanks everyone for your advice. I have a handgun already but I'm looking to buy something different. A rifle or a shotgun maybe.
You have two hands, right? Why would you be satisfied with A handgun?
I would recommend the exact same handgun, rifle and shotgun for each member of your family, at a minimum. Get common calibers (.22, 9mm, .40 cal, 12 gauge, 30-06, 7.62x39. .308 etc) and plenty of magazines.
Oh, and get holsters and slings, too.
Oh, and ammo, too.
Oh, and if your a rookie, get some training, too, so you don't kill or injure yourself or someone you love.
For sure, training is important. I know that to get a CHL you need to take some classes but I do want to go shooting with people who have more experience than me so I can learn. I do want to buy many guns and rifles but it sucks not having enough money to buy them. My wife is always telling me that she wants me to buy a big safe so I assume she doesn't have a problem with the idea of having many in the house.

Now a few questions for you Obrien. Are you buying guns because you feel or believe that the s-will-htf one day?

If you do, have you thought of if, when and how you will use them in such a scenario? What are you plans regarding storage?

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