Gun nuts only

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David13
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Location: Utah

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by David13 »

We had a nice outdoor range day and bbq yesterday. 50 people 250 or more guns, all day shooting. Hot weather. Pot luck lunch, with grill.
Another RSO and myself, also RSO, shared .22, .45, .380 and his AR15 in 7.62.
Some kids were visiting another shooter, using his .22 lever action, and having fun.
Just another safe and sane monthly event.
If guns scare you, if you don't know about guns, if you would like to overcome your fear, come out with us.
dc

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M249Gunner
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by M249Gunner »

Sounds like fun. Where do you meet?

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caddis
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by caddis »

David13 wrote:We had a nice outdoor range day and bbq yesterday. 50 people 250 or more guns, all day shooting. Hot weather. Pot luck lunch, with grill.
Another RSO and myself, also RSO, shared .22, .45, .380 and his AR15 in 7.62.
Some kids were visiting another shooter, using his .22 lever action, and having fun.
Just another safe and sane monthly event.
If guns scare you, if you don't know about guns, if you would like to overcome your fear, come out with us.
dc
Wow! I didn't think they allowed guns in Commiefornia. :D I'm just kidding. Sounds like a great time.

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David13
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Location: Utah

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by David13 »

There are really fewer restrictions on guns than you might think here. And, the very sad truth is, there are other states with more restrictive, more convoluted red tape on a gun.
Unless of course, you are an ex con, with a long criminal record, fresh out of prison, who goes to his local drug dealer and says hey man, get me a gun. Then of course, there is no restriction whatsoever, and, if you get caught, no room for you in the jail, as it is already full to the max.
Also, some years ago, there were no restrictions on guns here, shooting clubs were common in high schools, and there are at least 100 million guns in this state from before you know who started their misguided effort to restrict guns in the hands solely of law abiding citizens.
dc

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caddis
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by caddis »

David13 wrote:There are really fewer restrictions on guns than you might think here. And, the very sad truth is, there are other states with more restrictive, more convoluted red tape on a gun.
Unless of course, you are an ex con, with a long criminal record, fresh out of prison, who goes to his local drug dealer and says hey man, get me a gun. Then of course, there is no restriction whatsoever, and, if you get caught, no room for you in the jail, as it is already full to the max.
Also, some years ago, there were no restrictions on guns here, shooting clubs were common in high schools, and there are at least 100 million guns in this state from before you know who started their misguided effort to restrict guns in the hands solely of law abiding citizens.
dc
It's not as bad as some, but still not great. It's sad what it has become.

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David13
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Location: Utah

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by David13 »

It's not as bad as some, in some ways, but it's still bad and not even good.
The real sad thing is, that all the things they do doesn't do what they want it to do. It's totally unrelated to what they want to accomplish. But it's part of being misguided, that is, not understanding what the problem is in the first place.
dc

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caddis
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by caddis »

David13 wrote:It's not as bad as some, in some ways, but it's still bad and not even good.
The real sad thing is, that all the things they do doesn't do what they want it to do. It's totally unrelated to what they want to accomplish. But it's part of being misguided, that is, not understanding what the problem is in the first place.
dc
You have pretty much summed up every policy the progressives are pushing these days. Everything they are pushing or gets implemented has the exact opposite results of what they advertised.

freedomforall
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by freedomforall »

SEE: When They Come For Your Guns, You WILL Turn Them Over

by Jim Karger.
Posted Feb 20, 2014.

“When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands,” is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. “You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands,” which I often follow with the question, “And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?”

This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

…they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it.

If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized police force rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition “for the common good,” it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.

The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.

And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don’t seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.

Also ignored (as if it didn’t even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

According to Public Intelligence:

“…for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of ‘homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.’ Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being ‘necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities’ under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA.”

And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.

And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day — for nothing. You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

That is your choice… for the moment.

Regards,

The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is an anomaly in today’s world, as many countries removed guns from their citizenry at the turn of the 20th Century. Pierre Lemieux explains why he thinks this was a mistake on their part, and why an armed populace is the last best defense against tyranny. Read on...
Karger's website is http://www.crediblyconnect.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://dailyreckoning.com/when-they-com ... them-over/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SEE also: On the Usefulness of the 2nd Amendment

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WarMonger
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by WarMonger »

LOL.. I am not American, the guns will not be taken. The local cops and weekend warriors will side with the communities they represent. The so called security forces ran with their tails between their legs during the Cliven Bundy saga. The security forces are well in the minority and shooting your own citizens takes some doing. The US military are not mind controlled zombies the last time I checked.

The US with help of Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Italy, French, Syria, Australia, New Zealand, private contractors (mercenaries) & some Japanese funding etc cant take out 20-30,000 ISIS rebbles. It is no easy feat to just walk into the most well armed and trained citizens in the world and take overs using their own citizens to fight each other.

After the first gun raids - word will get out the people will mobilize or hide their guns.

2nd amendment main purpose is to prevent gov tyranny. Yes civil war in the US has been prophesied by many - it is going to come, and no new world order will take over. The US is going to descend into country of gangs and warlords, which will be far worse than a NWO, people will pray for foreign intervention like UN to take control and get some rule of law.

Satan has a plan for all those stockpiled guns and ammo and is inspiring them to get more and more. PS: I am one of those inspired to get more and more :ymdevil: :ymdevil: :ymdevil: .

freedomforall
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by freedomforall »

WarMonger wrote:LOL.. I am not American, the guns will not be taken. The local cops and weekend warriors will side with the communities they represent. The so called security forces ran with their tails between their legs during the Cliven Bundy saga. The security forces are well in the minority and shooting your own citizens takes some doing. The US military are not mind controlled zombies the last time I checked.

The US with help of Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Italy, French, Syria, Australia, New Zealand, private contractors (mercenaries) & some Japanese funding etc cant take out 20-30,000 ISIS rebbles. It is no easy feat to just walk into the most well armed and trained citizens in the world and take overs using their own citizens to fight each other.

After the first gun raids - word will get out the people will mobilize or hide their guns.

2nd amendment main purpose is to prevent gov tyranny. Yes civil war in the US has been prophesied by many - it is going to come, and no new world order will take over. The US is going to descend into country of gangs and warlords, which will be far worse than a NWO, people will pray for foreign intervention like UN to take control and get some rule of law.

Satan has a plan for all those stockpiled guns and ammo and is inspiring them to get more and more. PS: I am one of those inspired to get more and more :ymdevil: :ymdevil: :ymdevil: .
I heard recently that another raid on the Bundy's is in the planning, only this time they're going in full force and wiping them out if necessary.

Yet a congressman says that the BLM broke the law in exercising a raid:

Congressman: BLM Broke Law In Bundy Ranch Raid

freedomforall
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by freedomforall »

Some of this info is old, yet the situation still remains.

BLM to Bundy Ranch: "you'd better hope that 10,000 show up"


Followed by:



Again, the BLM broke the law and will continue to break the law by their unconstitutional actions...the same Constitution they claim to defend.

Gun confiscation efforts could be similar in action. Will Americans really give in to tyranny, just because of threats to kill, harm or imprison Americans?

You decide.

freedomforall
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by freedomforall »

Bundy Ranch: The Rules of Engagement have Changed


Bundy Ranch: Sheriff Mack Confirms SWAT Raid Imminent


Bundy Ranch: Harry Reid, Chinese Solar and US Debt


I post these things because if Americans are to defend the Constitution and their property, their lives and their families, guns will be used.

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WarMonger
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Location: Australia

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by WarMonger »

Yeah, if the BLM go in there and shoot the place up and make martyrs out of them it will be even a bigger mistake. I have dealt with these issues before in another country, it can only work if there is a political will supported by the people to do that kind of thing.

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bobhenstra
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Location: Central Utah

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by bobhenstra »

I've been doing business with a new company (precision) They sell a plus p .380 round I really like,really hot'

50 rd boxes 250 round boxes an 500 round
http://www.precisiononeammunition.com/i ... =1_2_37_40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm down to three guns now My Bersa .380. My Bersa .45 ultra compact does really well shooting precision
180 grain hollow point. Need to load more shotgun loads.

I'm gonna shoot some of this stuff and reload with rainier 230 grain hp's

Bersa arms are made in a plant built by Beretta in Argentina thus BerSouth America thus Bersa
very well built arms!

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bobhenstra
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Posts: 7236
Location: Central Utah

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by bobhenstra »

Dems Have A Bunch of New Ideas to Stop You From Buying Ammunition

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05 ... mmunition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.precisiononeammunition.com/i ... =1_2_37_40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might wanna hurry on this----

freedomforall
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by freedomforall »

bobhenstra wrote:Dems Have A Bunch of New Ideas to Stop You From Buying Ammunition

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05 ... mmunition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.precisiononeammunition.com/i ... =1_2_37_40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might wanna hurry on this----
Jade Helm comes to mind.

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WarMonger
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Location: Australia

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by WarMonger »

bobhenstra wrote:Dems Have A Bunch of New Ideas to Stop You From Buying Ammunition
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05 ... mmunition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.precisiononeammunition.com/i ... =1_2_37_40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Might wanna hurry on this----
Had a discussion on this the other day on an Australian Prepper group, The consensus was to get reloading gear.
Make your own ammom, few bottles of powder and plenty detonator caps - the rest you can make. I have a few projects left for preps and that is one of them.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by freedomforall »

WarMonger wrote:
bobhenstra wrote:Dems Have A Bunch of New Ideas to Stop You From Buying Ammunition
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05 ... mmunition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.precisiononeammunition.com/i ... =1_2_37_40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Might wanna hurry on this----
Had a discussion on this the other day on an Australian Prepper group, The consensus was to get reloading gear.
Make your own ammom, few bottles of powder and plenty detonator caps - the rest you can make. I have a few projects left for preps and that is one of them.
How many rounds does one need after their killed. Unless someone has super powers, the chances of surviving an attack with bullets flying everywhere is rather slim, unless you've got plenty of back up. One person against a squad of 20 men isn't going to go well. And where is a person going to be able to acquire body armor? So just what is a reasonable amount of rounds needed for one gun? Sometimes reality hits us where it hurts.
The best one can hope for is to send one or two to hell on your way out. The battle ahead of us isn't going to be one on one. Whole platoons of armed soldiers could invade one's neighborhood at 2AM before anyone even knows about it. The only way to stay ahead of this is to have a continual neighborhood watch 24/7. Perhaps a loud siren set up that would alert everyone within blocks around. Look at what happened after Katrina. People were caught off guard and probably hadn't made any preparations for such a CS move by government sent home invaders. If Jade Helm is anything like this, it will be on a much larger scale and very scary. People better be prepared either way. Being aware of one's surroundings at all times is just plain common sense, isn't it?

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bobhenstra
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Posts: 7236
Location: Central Utah

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by bobhenstra »

It's the gangs of thugs that I'm concerned about, not any army or police group attempting to take away my protection. Any army or government who wishes to disarm me will have to go through Texas first. The powers that be know they will not be able to disarm Americans, perhaps Canadians, but not Americans! Even the Lords fist 12 Apostles carried swords, the .45 of their day!

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M249Gunner
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Posts: 985

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by M249Gunner »

freedomforall wrote:
WarMonger wrote:
bobhenstra wrote:Dems Have A Bunch of New Ideas to Stop You From Buying Ammunition
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05 ... mmunition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.precisiononeammunition.com/i ... =1_2_37_40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Might wanna hurry on this----
Had a discussion on this the other day on an Australian Prepper group, The consensus was to get reloading gear.
Make your own ammom, few bottles of powder and plenty detonator caps - the rest you can make. I have a few projects left for preps and that is one of them.
How many rounds does one need after their killed. Unless someone has super powers, the chances of surviving an attack with bullets flying everywhere is rather slim, unless you've got plenty of back up. One person against a squad of 20 men isn't going to go well. And where is a person going to be able to acquire body armor? So just what is a reasonable amount of rounds needed for one gun? Sometimes reality hits us where it hurts.
The best one can hope for is to send one or two to hell on your way out. The battle ahead of us isn't going to be one on one. Whole platoons of armed soldiers could invade one's neighborhood at 2AM before anyone even knows about it. The only way to stay ahead of this is to have a continual neighborhood watch 24/7. Perhaps a loud siren set up that would alert everyone within blocks around. Look at what happened after Katrina. People were caught off guard and probably hadn't made any preparations for such a CS move by government sent home invaders. If Jade Helm is anything like this, it will be on a much larger scale and very scary. People better be prepared either way. Being aware of one's surroundings at all times is just plain common sense, isn't it?
You would be surprised what is survivable. I have been part of final protective fire training which one would think no one downrange would be able to survive. However, look at the beaches in the Pacific or the Normandy beaches during WWII that were pounded by naval gunfire. It was thought inconceivable that anyone could survive it, yet they did and could still fight. There are lots of stories of one Marine holding off many enemy. Don't be a quitter.

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M249Gunner
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by M249Gunner »

WarMonger wrote:
bobhenstra wrote:Dems Have A Bunch of New Ideas to Stop You From Buying Ammunition
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05 ... mmunition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.precisiononeammunition.com/i ... =1_2_37_40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Might wanna hurry on this----
Had a discussion on this the other day on an Australian Prepper group, The consensus was to get reloading gear.
Make your own ammom, few bottles of powder and plenty detonator caps - the rest you can make. I have a few projects left for preps and that is one of them.
Funny...I don't think I would use detonator caps in reloading if you would like to keep your hands/fingers and eyes....I'll stick with primers. ;)

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M249Gunner
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by M249Gunner »

bobhenstra wrote:Dems Have A Bunch of New Ideas to Stop You From Buying Ammunition

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05 ... mmunition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.precisiononeammunition.com/i ... =1_2_37_40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might wanna hurry on this----
I am astonished that Americans are stupid enough to keep voting for these idiots. Anyone with a "D" by their name and most people with an "R" by their name should not be elected. Who votes for these idiots???

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bobhenstra
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Location: Central Utah

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by bobhenstra »

I believe that "now" it doesn't matter who you vote for, all that matters is what your prepared for!

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WarMonger
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Location: Australia

Re: Gun nuts only

Post by WarMonger »

freedomforall wrote:The best one can hope for is to send one or two to hell on your way out. The battle ahead of us isn't going to be one on one. Whole platoons of armed soldiers could invade one's neighborhood at 2AM before anyone even knows about it. The only way to stay ahead of this is to have a continual neighborhood watch 24/7.
Again no grip on reality, no perception on how these things play out.Those of us who have experience these kind of things know differently, it is not some kind of armchair chess game, Apologies for the long post but a good read.

Experience from Bosnia: http://www.naturalnews.com/040249_Bosni ... egies.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One year in Hell...

I am from Bosnia. You know, between 1992 and 1995, it was hell. For one year, I lived and survived in a city with 6,000 people without water, electricity, gasoline, medical help, civil defense, distribution service, any kind of traditional service or centralized rule.

Our city was blockaded by the army; and for one year, life in the city turned into total crap. We had no army, no police. We only had armed groups; those armed protected their homes and families.

When it all started, some of us were better prepared. But most of the neighbors' families had enough food only for a few days. Some had pistols; a few had AK-47s or shotguns.

After a month or two, gangs started operating, destroying everything. Hospitals, for example, turned into slaughterhouses. There was no more police. About 80 percent of the hospital staff were gone. I got lucky. My family at the time was fairly large (15 people in a large house, six pistols, three AKs), and we survived (most of us, at least).

The Americans dropped MREs every 10 days to help blockaded cities. This was never enough. Some -- very few -- had gardens. It took three months for the first rumors to spread of men dying from hunger and cold. We removed all the doors, the window frames from abandoned houses, ripped up the floors and burned the furniture for heat. Many died from diseases, especially from the water (two from my own family). We drank mostly rainwater, ate pigeons and even rats.

Money soon became worthless. We returned to an exchange. For a tin can of tushonka (think Soviet spam), you could have a woman. (It is hard to speak of it, but it is true.) Most of the women who sold themselves were desperate mothers.

Arms, ammunition, candles, lighters, antibiotics, gasoline, batteries and food. We fought for these things like animals. In these situations, it all changes. Men become monsters. It was disgusting.

Strength was in numbers. A man living alone getting killed and robbed would be just a matter of time, even if he was armed.

Today, me and my family are well-prepared, I am well-armed. I have experience.

It does not matter what will happen: an earthquake, a war, a tsunami, aliens, terrorists, economic collapse, uprising. The important part is that something will happen.

Here's my experience: You can't make it on your own. Don't stay apart from your family; prepare together, choose reliable friends.

1. How to move safely in a city

The city was divided into communities along streets. Our street (15 to 20 homes) had patrols (five armed men every week) to watch for gangs and for our enemies.

All the exchanges occurred in the street. About 5 kilometers away was an entire street for trading, all well-organized; but going there was too dangerous because of the snipers. You could also get robbed by bandits. I only went there twice, when I needed something really rare (list of medicine, mainly antibiotics, of the French original of the texts).

Nobody used automobiles in the city: The streets were blocked by wreckage and by abandoned cars. Gasoline was very expensive. If one needed to go somewhere, that was done at night. Never travel alone or in groups that were too big -- always two to three men. All armed, travel swift, in the shadows, cross streets through ruins, not along open streets.

There were many gangs 10 to 15 men strong, some as large as 50 men. But there were also many normal men, like you and me, fathers and grandfathers, who killed and robbed. There were no "good" and "bad" men. Most were in the middle and ready for the worst.
2. What about wood? Your home city is surrounded by woods; why did you burn doors and furniture?

There were not that many woods around the city. It was very beautiful -- restaurants, cinemas, schools, even an airport. Every tree in the city and in the city park was cut down for fuel in the first two months.

Without electricity for cooking and heat, we burned anything that burned. Furniture, doors, flooring: That wood burns swiftly. We had no suburbs or suburban farms. The enemy was in the suburbs. We were surrounded. Even in the city you never knew who was the enemy at any given point.

3. What knowledge was useful to you in that period?

To imagine the situation a bit better, you should know it was practically a return to the Stone Age.

For example, I had a container of cooking gas. But I did not use it for heat. That would be too expensive! I attached a nozzle to it I made myself and used to fill lighters. Lighters were precious.

If a man brought an empty lighter, I would fill it; and he would give me a tin of food or a candle.

I was a paramedic. In these conditions, my knowledge was my wealth. Be curious and skilled. In these conditions, the ability to fix things is more valuable than gold.

Items and supplies will inevitably run out, but your skills will keep you fed.

I wish to say this: Learn to fix things, shoes or people.

My neighbor, for example, knew how to make kerosene for lamps. He never went hungry.

4. If you had three months to prepare now, what would you do?

Three months? Run away from the country? (joking)

Today, I know everything can collapse really fast. I have a stockpile of food, hygiene items, batteries -- enough to last me for six months.

I live in a very secure flat and own a home with a shelter in a village 5 kilometers away. Another six-month supply there, too. That's a small village; most people there are well-prepared. The war had taught them.

I have four weapons and 2,000 rounds for each.

I have a garden and have learned gardening. Also, I have a good instinct. You know, when everyone around you keeps telling you it'll all be fine, but I know it will all collapse.

I have strength to do what I need to protect my family. Because when it all collapses, you must be ready to do "bad" things to keep your children alive and protect your family.

Surviving on your own is practically impossible. (That's what I think.) Even you're armed and ready, if you're alone, you'll die. I have seen that happen many times.

Families and groups, well-prepared, with skills and knowledge in various fields: That's much better.

5. What should you stockpile?

That depends. If you plan to live by theft, all you need is weapons and ammo. Lots of ammo.

If not, more food, hygiene items, batteries, accumulators, little trading items (knives, lighters, flints, soap). Also, alcohol of a type that keeps well. The cheapest whiskey is a good trading item.

Many people died from insufficient hygiene. You'll need simple items in great amounts. For example, garbage bags. Lots of them. And toilet papers. Non-reusable dishes and cups: You'll need lots of them. I know that because we didn't have any at all.

As for me, a supply of hygiene items is perhaps more important than food. You can shoot a pigeon. You can find a plant to eat. You can't find or shoot any disinfectant.

Disinfectant, detergents, bleach, soap, gloves, masks.

First aid skills, washing wounds and burns. Perhaps you will find a doctor and will not be able to pay him.

Learn to use antibiotics. It's good to have a stockpile of them.

You should choose the simplest weapons. I carry a Glock .45. I like it, but it's a rare gun here. So I have two TT pistols, too. (Everyone has them and ammo is common.)

I don't like Kalashnikov's, but again, same story. Everyone has them; so do I.

You must own small, unnoticeable items. For example, a generator is good, but 1,000 BIC lighters are better. A generator will attract attention if there's any trouble, but 1,000 lighters are compact, cheap and can always be traded.

We usually collected rainwater into four large barrels and then boiled it. There was a small river, but the water in it became very dirty very fast.

It's also important to have containers for water: barrels and buckets.

6. Were gold and silver useful?

Yes. I personally traded all the gold in the house for ammunition.

Sometimes, we got our hands on money: dollars and Deutschmarks. We bought some things for them, but this was rare and prices were astronomical. For example, a can of beans cost $30 to $40. The local money quickly became worthless. Everything we needed we traded for through barter.

7. Was salt expensive?

Yes, but coffee and cigarettes were even more expensive. I had lots of alcohol and traded it without problems. Alcohol consumption grew over 10 times as compared to peacetime. Perhaps today, it's more useful to keep a stock of cigarettes, lighters and batteries. They take up less space.

At this time, I was not a survivalist. We had no time to prepare -- several days before the $#!% hit the fan. The politicians kept repeating over the TV that everything was going according to plan, there's no reason to be concerned. When the sky fell on our heads, we took what we could.

8. Was it difficult to purchase firearms? What did you trade for arms and ammunition?

After the war, we had guns in every house. The police confiscated lots of guns at the beginning of the war. But most of them we hid. Now I have one legal gun that I have a license for. Under the law, that's called a temporary collection. If there is unrest, the government will seize all the registered guns. Never forget that.

You know, there are many people who have one legal gun, but also illegal guns if that one gets seized. If you have good trade goods, you might be able to get a gun in a tough situation. But remember, the most difficult time is the first days, and perhaps you won't have enough time to find a weapon to protect your family. To be disarmed in a time of chaos and panic is a bad idea.

In my case, there was a man who needed a car battery for his radio. He had shotguns. I traded the accumulator for both of them. Sometimes, I traded ammunition for food, and a few weeks later traded food for ammunition. Never did the trade at home, never in great amounts.

Few people knew how much and what I keep at home.

The most important thing is to keep as many things as possible in terms of space and money. Eventually, you'll understand what is more valuable.

Correction: I'll always value weapons and ammunition the most. Second? Maybe gas masks and filters.

9. What about security?

Our defenses were very primitive. Again, we weren't ready, and we used what we could. The windows were shattered, and the roofs in a horrible state after the bombings. The windows were blocked -- some with sandbags, others with rocks.

I blocked the fence gate with wreckage and garbage, and used a ladder to get across the wall. When I came home, I asked someone inside to pass over the ladder. We had a fellow on our street that completely barricaded himself in his house. He broke a hole in the wall, creating a passage for himself into the ruins of the neighbor's house -- a sort of secret entrance.

Maybe this would seem strange, but the most protected houses were looted and destroyed first. In my area of the city, there were beautiful houses with walls, dogs, alarms and barred windows. People attacked them first. Some held out; others didn't. It all depended how many hands and guns they had inside.

I think defense is very important, but it must be carried out unobtrusively. If you are in a city and SHTF comes, you need a simple, non-flashy place, with lots of guns and ammo.

How much ammo? As much as possible.

Make your house as unattractive as you can.

Right now, I own a steel door, but that's just against the first wave of chaos. After that passes, I will leave the city to rejoin a larger group of people, my friends and family.

There were some situations during the war. There's no need for details, but we always had superior firepower and a brick wall on our side.

We also constantly kept someone watching the streets. Quality organization is paramount in case of gang attacks.

Shooting was constantly heard in the city.

Our perimeter was defended primitively. All the exits were barricaded and had little firing slits. Inside we had at least five family members ready for battle at any time and one man in the street, hidden in a shelter.

We stayed home through the day to avoid sniper fire.

At first, the weak perish. Then, the rest fight.

During the day, the streets were practically empty due to sniper fire. Defenses were oriented toward short-range combat alone. Many died if they went out to gather information, for example. It's important to remember we had no information, no radio, no TV -- only rumors and nothing else.

There was no organized army; every man fought. We had no choice. Everybody was armed, ready to defend themselves.

You should not wear quality items in the city; someone will murder you and take them. Don't even carry a "pretty" long arm, it will attract attention.

Let me tell you something: If SHTF starts tomorrow, I'll be humble. I'll look like everyone else. Desperate, fearful. Maybe I'll even shout and cry a little bit.

Pretty clothing is excluded altogether. I will not go out in my new tactical outfit to shout: "I have come! You're doomed, bad guys!" No, I'll stay aside, well-armed, well-prepared, waiting and evaluating my possibilities, with my best friend or brother.

Super-defenses, super-guns are meaningless. If people think they should steal your things, that you're profitable, they will. It's only a question of time and the amount of guns and hands.

10. How was the situation with toilets?

We used shovels and a patch of earth near the house. Does it seem dirty? It was. We washed with rainwater or in the river, but most of the time the latter was too dangerous. We had no toilet paper; and if we had any, I would have traded it away.

It was a "dirty" business.

Let me give you a piece of advice: You need guns and ammo first -- and second, everything else. Literally everything! All depends on the space and money you have.

If you forget something, there will always be someone to trade with for it. But if you forget weapons and ammo, there will be no access to trading for you.

I don't think big families are extra mouths. Big families means both more guns and strength -- and from there, everyone prepares on his own.

11. How did people treat the sick and the injured?

Most injuries were from gunfire. Without a specialist and without equipment, if an injured man found a doctor somewhere, he had about a 30 percent chance of survival.

It ain't the movie. People died. Many died from infections of superficial wounds. I had antibiotics for three to four uses -- for the family, of course.

People died foolishly quite often. Simple diarrhea will kill you in a few days without medicine, with limited amounts of water.

There were many skin diseases and food poisonings… nothing to it.

Many used local plants and pure alcohol -- enough for the short-term, but useless in the long term.

Hygiene is very important, as well as having as much medicine as possible -- especially antibiotics.


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freedomforall
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Re: Gun nuts only

Post by freedomforall »

M249Gunner wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
WarMonger wrote:Had a discussion on this the other day on an Australian Prepper group, The consensus was to get reloading gear.
Make your own ammom, few bottles of powder and plenty detonator caps - the rest you can make. I have a few projects left for preps and that is one of them.
How many rounds does one need after their killed. Unless someone has super powers, the chances of surviving an attack with bullets flying everywhere is rather slim, unless you've got plenty of back up. One person against a squad of 20 men isn't going to go well. And where is a person going to be able to acquire body armor? So just what is a reasonable amount of rounds needed for one gun? Sometimes reality hits us where it hurts.
The best one can hope for is to send one or two to hell on your way out. The battle ahead of us isn't going to be one on one. Whole platoons of armed soldiers could invade one's neighborhood at 2AM before anyone even knows about it. The only way to stay ahead of this is to have a continual neighborhood watch 24/7. Perhaps a loud siren set up that would alert everyone within blocks around. Look at what happened after Katrina. People were caught off guard and probably hadn't made any preparations for such a CS move by government sent home invaders. If Jade Helm is anything like this, it will be on a much larger scale and very scary. People better be prepared either way. Being aware of one's surroundings at all times is just plain common sense, isn't it?
You would be surprised what is survivable. I have been part of final protective fire training which one would think no one downrange would be able to survive. However, look at the beaches in the Pacific or the Normandy beaches during WWII that were pounded by naval gunfire. It was thought inconceivable that anyone could survive it, yet they did and could still fight. There are lots of stories of one Marine holding off many enemy. Don't be a quitter.
The ones that got killed weren't quitters either, they're just dead doers. Don't be a wishful thinker. None of us are invincible. How many people do you know that have turned their home into a bunker. Are they prepared for tear gas, weapons capable of sending out 3000 rounds per minute and incinerating whatever gets hit? Do not underestimate the opponent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClEo2OfA2Zs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I have witnessed this type of weaponry in action in Vietnam. Watching ten or so helicopters sending out tracers rounds is a scary sight. It's similar to Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker swinging their laser swords. The government is capable of doing whatever they deem necessary in bringing the populace under subjection.

Bob mentioned gangs. This is a realistic notion and probably a more reasonable challenge where the defender has a much better chance of survival. But one still needs protective gear and reinforced shelter of some sort.

But my main question was not addressed. What is a reasonable amount of spare ammo for one gun? 50...100...300...600.....1000? Even a 22 can do serious damage when the rounds are placed properly.

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