Admit it, you're broke

For discussion of secret combinations (political, economic, spiritual, religious, etc.) (Ether 8:18-25.)
Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

Durzan wrote: June 9th, 2017, 3:55 pm Gold and silver aren't really that much better than fiat currency. Really the only difference is that you would be putting your faith in a worthless piece of metal vs a worthless piece of paper. The only things silver and gold are actually good for is conducting electricity and possibly preventing rust, but other than that, there is just as much fiat in gold-backed currencies as there is in paper currencies.
Well, not quite. Some scholars gathered in the newly independent United States, knowing human nature as well as the excesses a government gone wild will take, made gold and silver money for the country. The Savior has given his seal of approval of the Constitution. I'll take that endorsement over your perspective.

Do you care to defend this statement of yours: The only things silver and gold are actually good for is conducting electricity and possibly preventing rust, but other than that, there is just as much fiat in gold-backed currencies as there is in paper currencies.

1. Silver and gold have wealth storage capabilities which have never gone to zero. Can't say the same for fiat paper money.
2. Silver has anti-bacterial properties.

3. Tell us about the gold-backed currencies of which you speak.

Older/wiser?
captain of 100
Posts: 538

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Older/wiser? »

I don't think those who advocate having metals are being understood correctly, I for one believe that "having a little savings" or " some financial reserve" should be in metals instead of paper currency, certainly not as a replacment for wheat or any other necessity. So rather than having a savings account in a bank, purchase metals, that if there was a collapse or run on the banks you would temporarily have a recognized coinage of value. I don't have any faith in this system lasting. History shows a major war every 75 yrs. In my lifetime I have not seen a major war, or collapse, I'd say we are due. Am I broke or Wealthy? Well compared to most of the world I am wealthy, I never go to bed hungry, I sleep in a bed off the floor, under a roof that is paid for. Due I own new vehicles , no never have, due I vacation and travel no, financial wealth can be stripped from you in a moment, wisdom in lessons hard learned last an eternity. Guess I am wealthy.

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

Michelle wrote: June 9th, 2017, 9:31 pm I admit it in a certain context, because I don't consider either paper currency or gold or silver to be wealth. (They say the streets in heaven are paved with gold. So really, you are trying to collect the asphalt of heaven and count yourself rich. How foolish is that? lol) I believe debt will prove the downfall of many otherwise faithful saints. Think of the early saints asked to leave New York for Ohio. Those that could sold their farms, those that couldn't left them at a loss. How would you do that today? Your debtors will be paid.

Any physical wealth moth and rust can corrupt and thieves can break through and steal. Skills, those are yours to use and share. No one can take a knowledge of edible plants, of cultivating the earth, of character to work until your brow is sweaty: self reliance
like Adam and Eve.

Think of the return you get on planting seeds! One single seed may multiply in to tens or hundreds. What bank gives you that kind of return on your investment? God desires to provide for his saints in his own way. I don't think it was an accident Adam was told to till the earth. I don't believe most modern advances are blessings so much as the Lord meeting us where we are at, but there will come a time when we must go back to his way. We cannot trust in the arm of flesh to protect or provide for us. I'll have to look for the reference, but we have been warned the day will come when we will wear what we sow, eat what we grow. Where we must be independent of every other sphere on earth.

If you want to be rich, do what the prophets have counseled. Get out of debt, have a little savings, have a 3 month supply of food you are accustomed to and a year to keep you alive. Plant a garden and fruit trees if you can. Borrow a neighbors garden if they will let you. (I had three gardens one year at other people's houses.)

I always tell my kids, as a general rule, the person without debts is the richest person in the neighborhood.

http://jod.mrm.org/1/248

". . .you are left with nothing more than a pile of gold, what good would it do you? You could not eat it, drink it, wear it, or carry it off where you could have something to eat. The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat. Gold is not to be compared with it in value. Why would it be precious to you now? Simply because you could get gold for it? Gold is good for nothing, only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone, or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life." Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 1 page 250.
Why do gold-haters always treat this subject like it is some Day of Judgment-level dichotomy? Heaven or hell! Which will it be?!?! Either you believe in gold or you believe in skills! Either you believe in gold or you believe in wheat! Which one is it then, wheat or skills? So ridiculous the way the ownership of two beautiful elements created by Jehovah are reduced to an argument such as, well, you must rely on the arm of flesh, you heathen, if you like shiny stuff.

Do any of you know somebody who has had everything stolen from them? Do any of you know someone who lost their home in a fire? As they were watching their home burn down, did they think to themselves, "I'm sure glad I know how to crochet. I'll fix the ol' homestead in a flash with my crocheting skills. Just stand back and watch me."? More than likely, they were calling their insurance company to get a check (you know, awful, terrible money) so they could rebuild and get on with their lives.

I have never said in any of my posts that one should own gold, and not, for example, food storage. Or that one should own silver and fail to have any skills to support one's family. In my case, I worked my way through college (which cost money, not my whistling skills) and I worked to support my family and got paid money (my employer offered to pay me in his wood carving skills, but I declined), I built up my food storage supplies, water filters, protection, etc., and now that I have some excess, I own a bit of precious metals as part of my financial reserve.

Further, I have never said one should go into debt to own gold or silver. Debt is the problem with our financial system now. The "Note"
in Federal Reserve Note means debt. Get out of debt by converting your debt notes to something both God and the Constitution approve -- gold and silver.

Finally, Michelle, you carted out that old quote of Brigham Young's, but think about the setting in which it was given instead of ignorantly taking it out of context. If BY went to his bank and withdrew $500 to buy some land, do you realize he was given the shiny stuff and not paper? Oh no! Why didn't BY follow his own advice? The answer is that BY, one of the richest men in UT, did follow his own advice. However, instead of purging his bank account and pockets and household of gold and silver, he knew their proper role in society and used them like any other tool given to us by Heavenly Father.

If we're going to quote prophets though, I'll haul out a good one by Ezra Taft Benson who was very familiar with the treasonous machinations going on in NY and DC. He is more recent than BY so I win.

President Ezra Taft Benson:
"Even though American citizens would still be forced by law to honor the same pieces of paper as though they were real money, instinctively they would rush and convert their paper currency into tangible material goods which could be used as barter. As in Germany and other nations that have previously traveled this road, the rush to get rid of dollars and acquire tangibles would rapidly accelerate the visible effects of inflation to where it might cost one hundred dollars or more for a single loaf of bread. Hoarded silver coins would begin to reappear as a separate monetary system which, since they have intrinsic value would remain firm, while printed paper money finally would become worth exactly its proper value-the paper it is printed on! Everyone's savings would be wiped out totally. No one could escape."

Michelle
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Posts: 1795

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Michelle »

Wow, slow down Silver. ;) Not trying to start a fight. I appreciate many of your posts and don't entirely disagree with you about silver. Emotions can be hard to convey in writing. I also didn't mean to imply you are a fool with my joke about asphalt, just a funny thing I observed some years ago. :ymhug:

I would take gold or silver anyday over paper money for sure. :D

I was just sharing my perspective. I think just like the day is soon approaching we will eat the things that we stored and are accustomed to, it will be followed by days of eating what we have stored for survival, and that followed by eating what we grow.

In similar fashion, today is a day of paper (or digital currency), it will be followed by gold and silver, and that by barter and skill.

Also, thank you for not pointing out I spelled sew "sow." Lol

Friends?

Silver
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Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

Michelle wrote: June 9th, 2017, 11:14 pm Friends?
Sure

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Durzan
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Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Durzan »

what i have been trying to say was that we only value gold and silver because of their rarity. When you think about it, nothing makes gold and silver special other than we say it has value... just like fiat currency. If the whole world were to suddenly collapse and break out into famine, and all the government ld collapsed, gold and silver would be just as worthless to us as paper currency... unless you got creative with it. Therefore, there is not really that much difference.

Silver
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Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

Durzan wrote: June 10th, 2017, 7:27 am what i have been trying to say was that we only value gold and silver because of their rarity. When you think about it, nothing makes gold and silver special other than we say it has value... just like fiat currency. If the whole world were to suddenly collapse and break out into famine, and all the government ld collapsed, gold and silver would be just as worthless to us as paper currency... unless you got creative with it. Therefore, there is not really that much difference.
To which I say that there are some creative and prepared people who would gather together and welcome precious metals as a fungible medium of exchange.

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David13
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Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by David13 »

Older/wiser? wrote: June 9th, 2017, 10:24 pm I don't think those who advocate having metals are being understood correctly, I for one believe that "having a little savings" or " some financial reserve" should be in metals instead of paper currency, certainly not as a replacment for wheat or any other necessity. So rather than having a savings account in a bank, purchase metals, that if there was a collapse or run on the banks you would temporarily have a recognized coinage of value. I don't have any faith in this system lasting. History shows a major war every 75 yrs. In my lifetime I have not seen a major war, or collapse, I'd say we are due. Am I broke or Wealthy? Well compared to most of the world I am wealthy, I never go to bed hungry, I sleep in a bed off the floor, under a roof that is paid for. Due I own new vehicles , no never have, due I vacation and travel no, financial wealth can be stripped from you in a moment, wisdom in lessons hard learned last an eternity. Guess I am wealthy.
Real wealth is leisure time, so I'm probably the richest one here, as I have nothing to do but sit around and do nothing. Retirement.
dc

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Durzan
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Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Durzan »

Silver wrote: June 10th, 2017, 7:37 am
Durzan wrote: June 10th, 2017, 7:27 am what i have been trying to say was that we only value gold and silver because of their rarity. When you think about it, nothing makes gold and silver special other than we say it has value... just like fiat currency. If the whole world were to suddenly collapse and break out into famine, and all the government ld collapsed, gold and silver would be just as worthless to us as paper currency... unless you got creative with it. Therefore, there is not really that much difference.
To which I say that there are some creative and prepared people who would gather together and welcome precious metals as a fungible medium of exchange.
If we are going to do that though, we should tie the value to food. 1 GP should be worth a weeks worth of rations for 1 person... or something like that. And the coin should be called a Deseri

Silver
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Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

Durzan wrote: June 10th, 2017, 8:47 am
Silver wrote: June 10th, 2017, 7:37 am
Durzan wrote: June 10th, 2017, 7:27 am what i have been trying to say was that we only value gold and silver because of their rarity. When you think about it, nothing makes gold and silver special other than we say it has value... just like fiat currency. If the whole world were to suddenly collapse and break out into famine, and all the government ld collapsed, gold and silver would be just as worthless to us as paper currency... unless you got creative with it. Therefore, there is not really that much difference.
To which I say that there are some creative and prepared people who would gather together and welcome precious metals as a fungible medium of exchange.
If we are going to do that though, we should tie the value to food. 1 GP should be worth a weeks worth of rations for 1 person... or something like that. And the coin should be called a Deseri
I like it.

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Durzan
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Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Durzan »

Silver wrote: June 10th, 2017, 8:50 am
Durzan wrote: June 10th, 2017, 8:47 am
Silver wrote: June 10th, 2017, 7:37 am
Durzan wrote: June 10th, 2017, 7:27 am what i have been trying to say was that we only value gold and silver because of their rarity. When you think about it, nothing makes gold and silver special other than we say it has value... just like fiat currency. If the whole world were to suddenly collapse and break out into famine, and all the government ld collapsed, gold and silver would be just as worthless to us as paper currency... unless you got creative with it. Therefore, there is not really that much difference.
To which I say that there are some creative and prepared people who would gather together and welcome precious metals as a fungible medium of exchange.
If we are going to do that though, we should tie the value to food. 1 GP should be worth a weeks worth of rations for 1 person... or something like that. And the coin should be called a Deseri
I like it.
That still doesn't change the fact that in times of famine, precious metals won't retain their value. I mean, honestly who would accept gold or silver (which are practically worthless in terms of survival) for a pound of food from your food storage? Would you REALLY give it up? Thats a bad trade... 1 pound of your precious food source for a little bit of shiny metal.

Thats what I was trying to point out earlier.

Silver
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Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

Durzan wrote: June 10th, 2017, 8:58 am
Silver wrote: June 10th, 2017, 8:50 am
Durzan wrote: June 10th, 2017, 8:47 am
Silver wrote: June 10th, 2017, 7:37 am

To which I say that there are some creative and prepared people who would gather together and welcome precious metals as a fungible medium of exchange.
If we are going to do that though, we should tie the value to food. 1 GP should be worth a weeks worth of rations for 1 person... or something like that. And the coin should be called a Deseri
I like it.
That still doesn't change the fact that in times of famine, precious metals won't retain their value. I mean, honestly who would accept gold or silver (which are practically worthless in terms of survival) for a pound of food from your food storage? Would you REALLY give it up? Thats a bad trade... 1 pound of your precious food source for a little bit of shiny metal.

Thats what I was trying to point out earlier.
I get that. It's just when people start talking about scenarios that they've never experienced and most of the human race has never experienced I get a little skeptical. Why go immediately to the worst-case scenario when there have been hundreds of fiat collapses and dozens of hyper-inflationary excesses?

Of course, there has been famine in isolated places. There are even now. However, if you analyze those situations carefully, more often than not it is due to government interference and not the inability to grow food. The Ukrainian Holodomor in the early 1930's and the Horn of Africa starvation being a couple of good examples.

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

I hope you've used the last 7-8 years of improving economic conditions (if you believe the lies out of Washington DC) to pay off your debts.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-1 ... es-society

Debt-Based Money Corrodes Society

by Tyler Durden
Jun 11, 2017 4:00 PM

Authored by Brian Maher via The Daily Reckoning,

We open today’s reckoning with a hypothesis:

The current monetary system debauches the culture.
Long-suffering readers are familiar with our… diminished regard for paper money.

Paper money — or digital money nowadays — is the great bogeyman of the boom/bust cycle. It inflates bubbles of every model and make.

Meanwhile, paper money fuels big government… as oxygen fuels fire.

But paper money’s effects on the culture?

“It has a very important impact on our culture,” writes economist Jorg Guido Hulsmann.

Under “natural money” like gold Hulsmann explains, prices tend to fall over time.

So natural money encourages the virtues of saving… thrift… deferred gratification. It sets the mind to the future:

In a free economy with a natural monetary system, there is a strong incentive to save money… Investments in savings accounts or other relatively safe investments also play a certain role, but cash hoarding is paramount.

Before the 20th century, explains Hulsmann, debt was a cultural taboo… a big scarlet “D.”

Credit for households was virtually unknown, he says. And only the poorest households resorted to debt-financed consumption.

Ah, but then the 20th century came along with its wars… its social movements… and its cranks…

Gold is a famously uncooperative agent of change.

It resists social uplift, in the same way an old man resists a new pair of shoes.

It turns away from the sound of trumpets.

“You go over there,” gold says. “I’m staying here.”

“The trouble with gold is that it turns its back on world improvers, empire builders and do-gooders,” wrote Bill Bonner and our leader Addison Wiggin in Empire of Debt.

“The nice thing about gold is that it is so unresponsive,” they continued. “It neither laughs nor applauds.”

And that’s why it couldn’t last…

Only a debt-backed system of paper money could finance the great wars, the social improvements and the fevered dreams of the 20th century.

But the same debt-based money also seeped its way into the cultural marrows… got into the bloodstream… and went to work…

The slow grind of saving yielded to lure of the fast buck. Hulsmann says it all encouraged a short-term perspective.

“Fiat-money systems tend to make people insatiable in their quest for ever higher monetary returns on their investments,” Hulsmann notes.

Hurry, hurry, hurry. More, more, more.

Hulsmann argues things work differently under a natural monetary system.

As savings increase under such a system, the return on investments of all sorts tends to diminish.

And instead of chasing rainbows, people direct their monies in pursuit of other worthwhile interests, including philanthropy:

It becomes ever less interesting to invest one’s savings in order to earn a return, and thus other motivations shift into the foreground. Savings will be used increasingly to finance personal projects including the acquisition of durable consumers’ goods, but also philanthropic activity. This is exactly what we saw in the West during the nineteenth century.

“By contrast,” Hulsmann adds,”in a fiat money society you are more likely to increase your returns by remaining in debt and continuing to chase monetary revenue indefinitely by leveraging more and more funds.”

The debt-soaked society loses something of the human face perhaps. He concludes:

You can imagine, then, how this inflation and debt-based system, over time, will begin to change the culture of a society and its behavior.

We become more materialistic than under a natural monetary system. We can’t just sit on our savings anymore, and we have to watch our investments constantly, and think about revenue constantly, because if it is not earning enough, we are actively getting poorer.
A point to ponder of a June day…

We don’t argue of course that a restoration of sound money would turn every heart to gold.

But it seems this Hulsmann has hooked onto something here.

Maybe our paper money system has not only debased our economy and our politics… but also our culture.

And maybe our socially inclined money… has somehow made us less social…

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

Returning to the theme of the original post. Please don't let normalcy bias or recency bias prevent you from getting prepared. Do good things now. Stop financially bad things now. If you have some non-grocery money, please buy some silver now.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-2 ... gency-fund

69 Percent Of Americans Do Not Have An Adequate Emergency Fund

by Tyler Durden
Jun 21, 2017 12:05 PM
Authored by Michael Snyder via The Economic Collapse blog,

Do you have an emergency fund? If you even have one penny in emergency savings, you are already ahead of about one-fourth of the country.

I write about this stuff all the time, but it always astounds me how many Americans are literally living on the edge financially. Back in 2008 when the economy tanked and millions of people lost their jobs, large numbers of Americans suddenly couldn’t pay their bills because they were living paycheck to paycheck. Now the stage is set for it to happen again. Another major recession is going to happen at some point, and when it does millions of people are going to get blindsided by it.

Despite all of our emphasis on education, we never seem to teach our young people how to handle money. But this is one of the most basic skills that everyone needs. Personally, I went through high school, college and law school without ever being taught about the dangers of going into debt or the importance of saving money.

If you are ever going to build any wealth, you have got to spend less than you earn. That is just basic common sense. Unfortunately, nearly one out of every four Americans does not have even a single penny in emergency savings…

Bankrate’s newly released June Financial Security Index survey indicates that 24 percent of Americans have not saved any money at all for their emergency funds.

This is despite experts recommending that people strive for a savings cushion equivalent to the amount needed to cover three to six months’ worth of expenses.

For years, I have been telling my readers that at a minimum they need to have an emergency fund that can cover at least six months of expenses. It is great to have more than that, but everyone should strive to have at least a six month cushion.

Unfortunately, that same Bankrate survey found that only 31 percent of Americans actually have such a cushion…

The June survey also found that 31 percent of Americans have what Bankrate considers an ‘adequate’ savings cushion — six or more months’ worth of money to pay expenses — which means that nearly two-thirds of the country isn’t saving enough money.

That means that a whopping 69 percent of all Americans do not have an adequate emergency fund.

So what is going to happen if another great crisis arrives and millions of people suddenly lose their jobs?

Just like last time, mortgage defaults will start soaring and countless numbers of families will lose their homes.


If you do not have anything to fall back on, you can lose your spot in the middle class really fast. And in the case of a truly catastrophic national crisis, trying to operate without any money at all is going to be exceedingly challenging.

Just recently, the Federal Reserve conducted a survey that discovered that 44 percent of all Americans do not even have enough money “to cover an unexpected $400 expense”.

That is almost half the country.

And a different survey by CareerBuilder found that 75 percent of all Americans have lived paycheck to paycheck “at least some of the time”.

Unfortunately, in a desperate attempt to make ends meet many of us continue to pile up more and more debt. According to Moneyish, Americans have now accumulated more than a trillion dollars of credit card debt, more than a trillion dollars of student loan debt, and more than a trillion dollars of auto loan debt.

We’ve racked up $1 trillion in credit card debt — and that’s just a fraction of what we owe. That’s according to data released this year from the Federal Reserve, which found that U.S. consumers owe $1.0004 trillion on their cards, up 6.2% from a year ago; this is the highest amount owed since January 2009. What’s more, this isn’t the only consumer debt to top $1 trillion. We now also owe more than $1 trillion for our cars, and for our student loans, the data showed.

Overall, U.S. consumers are now more than 12 trillion dollars in debt.

We often criticize the federal government for being nearly 20 trillion dollars in debt. And that criticism is definitely valid. What we are doing to future generations of Americans is beyond criminal.

But are we not doing something similar to ourselves?


When you divide the total amount of consumer debt by the size of the U.S. population, it breaks down to roughly $40,000 for every man, woman and child in our country.

When someone lends you money, you have to pay back more than you originally borrow. And in the case of high interest debt, you can end up paying back several times what you originally borrowed.

If you carry a balance from month to month on a high interest credit card, it is absolutely crippling you financially. But many Americans don’t understand this. Instead, they just keep sending off the “minimum payment” every month because that is the easiest thing to do.

If you ever want to achieve financial freedom, you have got to get rid of your toxic debts. There are some forms of low interest debt, such as mortgage debt, that are not going to financially cripple you. But anything with a high rate of interest you will want to pay off as soon as possible.

And everyone needs a financial cushion. Unless you can guarantee that your life is always going to go super smoothly and you are never going to have any problems, you need an emergency fund to fall back on.

Yes, you may need to make some sacrifices in order to make that happen. Nobody ever said that it would be easy. But just about everyone has somewhere that a little “belt tightening” can be done, and in the long-term it will be worth it.

When you don’t have to constantly worry about how you are going to pay the bills next month, it will help you sleep a lot easier at night. Many of us have put a lot of unnecessary stress on ourselves by spending money that we didn’t have for things that we really didn’t need.

And now is the time to get your financial house in order, because it appears that another major economic downturn is not too far away.

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/06/pay- ... e?lang=eng

JUNE 1987 PAY THY DEBT, AND LIVE

FIRST PRESIDENCY MESSAGE
By President Ezra Taft Benson

In the book of Kings we read about a woman who came weeping to Elisha, the prophet. Her husband had died, and she owed a debt that she could not pay. The creditor was on his way to take her two sons and sell them as slaves.

By a miracle Elisha enabled her to acquire a goodly supply of oil. Then he said to her: “Go, sell the oil, and pay thy debt, and live thou and thy children of the rest.” (See 2 Kgs. 4:1–7.)

“Pay thy debt, and live.” How fruitful these words have ever been! What wise counsel they are for us today!

In the words of wise men down through the ages, we find over and over again this great insistence upon the wisdom of being debt free. Shakespeare put on the lips of one of his characters in Hamlet these words: “Neither a borrower nor a lender be: for loan oft loses both itself and friend, and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.” (Act 1, scene 3, lines 75–77.)

Others have written:

“Do not accustom yourself to consider debt only as an inconvenience; you will find it a calamity.” (Samuel Johnson.)

“The debt-habit is the twin brother of poverty.” (Theodore Thornton Munger.)

“Poverty is hard, but debt is horrible.” (Charles Haddon Spurgeon.)

“I have discovered the philosopher’s stone, that turns everything into gold: it is, ‘Pay as you go.’” (John Randolph.)

“Think what you do when you run in debt; you give to another power over your liberty.” (Benjamin Franklin.)

True, times have changed since Franklin’s day, but the principles of truth and wisdom never change. Our inspired leaders have always urged us to get out of debt, live within our means, and pay as we go.

Our own pioneer forefathers have left us a heritage of thrift, of saving, of freedom from debt. Surely they would counsel us today: “Pay thy debt, and live.”

Many people do not believe that serious recession will ever come again. Feeling secure in their expectations of continuing employment and a steady flow of wages and salaries, they obligate their future income without thought of what they would do if they should lose their jobs or if their incomes were stopped for some other reason. But the best authorities have repeatedly said that we are not yet smart enough to control our economy without downward adjustments. Sooner or later these adjustments will come.

Another reason for increase in debt is even deeper and causes greater concern. This is the rise of materialism, as contrasted with commitment to spiritual values. Many a family, in order to make a “proper showing,” will commit itself for a larger and more expensive house than is needed, in an expensive neighborhood. Almost everyone would, it seems, like to keep up with the Joneses. With the rising standard of living, that temptation increases with each new gadget that comes on the market. The subtle, carefully planned techniques of modern advertising are aimed at the weakest points of consumer resistance. As a result, there is a growing feeling, unfortunately, that material things should be had now, without waiting, without saving, without self-denial.

Worse still, a large proportion of families with personal debt have no liquid assets whatsoever to fall back upon. What troubles they invite if their income should be suddenly cut off or seriously reduced! We all know of families who have obligated themselves for more than they could pay. There is a world of heartache behind such cases.

Yes, there is a tendency for all of us to want to keep up with our neighbors, even if our income is low. Sadly, in this respect, we have plenty of company.

In the long run, it is easier to live within our income and resist borrowing from future reserves except in cases of necessity—never for luxuries. It is not fair to ourselves or our communities to be so improvident in our spending that the day our income stops we must turn to relief agencies or the Church for financial aid.

Do not, I solemnly urge you, tie yourselves to payment of carrying charges that are often exorbitant. Save now and buy later, and you will be much further ahead. You will spare yourselves high interest and other payments, and the money you save may provide opportunity for you to buy later at substantial cash discounts.

If you must incur debt to meet the reasonable necessities of life—such as buying an automobile, a house, or furniture—then I implore you, as you value your solvency and happiness, buy within your means and use credit wisely. Resist the temptation to plunge into property far more pretentious or spacious than you really need.

How much better off you will be, especially young families just starting out, if first you buy a small house which you can expect to pay for in a relatively short time. Such a house in a neighborhood where values are increasing will usually provide the basis for a very large down payment on a bigger home when you are ready for it.

True, you can sometimes buy with little or no down payment, and on long terms. But these terms mean that a very large part of your total payments will go to pay interest charges, not to retire the principal of the debt. Remember, interest never sleeps or takes a holiday. Such payments of interest can easily become a tremendous burden, especially when you add to them taxes and repair costs.

Do not leave yourself or your family unprotected against financial storms. Forgo luxuries, for the time being at least, to build up savings. How wise it is to provide for the future education of your children and for your old age.

The smaller the family income, the more important it is that every dollar be used wisely. Efficient spending and saving will give the family more security, more opportunities, more education, and a higher standard of living.

As I look back on the establishment of my own home, I am grateful for a companion who, although accustomed to many of the luxuries of life, was willing to start humbly.

Vividly I recall her doing the washing by hand until we could buy a second-hand washer. There was no overstuffed furniture; there was no carpeting on the floors. As a graduate student on a $70-a-month scholarship, I recall entertaining at dinner the head of the department at the college. He sat down at a card table (which was not used for cards) because there was no dining table. We gathered vegetables from the college experimental plots to cut down on the grocery bill and help us live within our means. Many have had similar experiences in a determination to make ends meet.

Now, when personal incomes are generally high, is the time to pay off obligations. I doubt that there will soon be again a more favorable time for Latter-day Saints to get out of debt than now. Let us use the opportunity we have to speed up repayment of mortgages and to set aside provisions for education, possible periods of decreased earning power, and emergencies the future may hold.

Truly a man does not live by bread alone. A good name is still to be preferred over great riches. Especially is it to be preferred to the appearance of riches, acquired with nothing down and nothing to pay for two months.

Stewardship, not conspicuous consumption, is the proper relationship of man to material wealth.

There may never be a more favorable time than now for most people to get their financial house in order so far as debt is concerned. Yes, let us live within our income. Let us pay as we go. Let us “pay thy debt, and live!”

Cry unto the Lord for strength to heed the counsel of the oracles of God. The prophet Amulek said: “Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them. Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.” (Alma 34:24–25.)

May I add this to Amulek’s counsel: Pray to the Lord over your debts that they may be paid. Pray to him for faith to get out of debt, to live within your means, and to pay as you go. Yes, “Pay thy debt, and live!”

My brothers and sisters, let us heed the counsel of the leadership of the Church. Get out of debt! Let us pay first our obligations to our Heavenly Father. Then we will more easily pay our debts to our fellowmen. Let us heed the counsel of President Brigham Young, who said: “Pay your debts, … do not run into debt any more. … Be prompt in everything, and especially to pay your debts.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, comp. John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954, p. 303.)

President Joseph F. Smith added: “In the time of prosperity … get out of debt. … If you desire to prosper, and to be … a free people, first meet your obligations to God, and then … to your fellowmen.” (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1939, pp. 259–60.)

President Heber J. Grant counseled: “Tithing is a law of God. … Be honest with the Lord and I promise [the Latter-day Saints] that peace, prosperity, and financial success will attend.”

“Let me warn the Latter-day Saints to buy automobiles and to buy the ordinary necessities of life when they have the money to buy them, and not to mortgage their future.” (Gospel Standards, comp. G. Homer Durham, Salt Lake City: Improvement Era, 1941, pp. 60–61, 111.)

Brothers and sisters, peace and contentment come into our hearts when we live within our means. God grant us the wisdom and the faith to heed the inspired counsel of the priesthood to get out of debt, to live within our means, and to pay as we go—in short, to “pay thy debt, and live.”

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by David13 »

I got one more silver dollar, and I ain't gonna let 'em catch me ...

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

David13 wrote: June 21st, 2017, 12:05 pm I got one more silver dollar, and I ain't gonna let 'em catch me ...
Wow, I bet those words of yours would be some great lyrics in a song by a southern rock band.

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David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by David13 »

Silver wrote: June 21st, 2017, 12:07 pm
David13 wrote: June 21st, 2017, 12:05 pm I got one more silver dollar, and I ain't gonna let 'em catch me ...
Wow, I bet those words of yours would be some great lyrics in a song by a southern rock band.
Funny you should say that.
dc

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Silver »

If you work for minimum wage, you're broke and getting broker.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-2 ... e-its-math

McDonalds Is Replacing 2,500 Human Cashiers With Digital Kiosks: Here Is Its Math

by Tyler Durden
Jun 23, 2017 10:45 AM

The stock market is luvin' McDonalds stock, which has continued its recent relentless rise to all time highs, up 26% YTD, oblivious to the carnage among the broader restaurant and fast-food sector. There is a reason for Wall Street's euphoria: the same one we discussed in January in "Dear Bernie, Meet the "Big Mac ATM" That Will Replace All Of Your $15 Per Hour Fast Food Workers."

In a report released this week by Cowen's Andrew Charles, the analyst calculates the jump in sales as a result of the company's new Experience of the Future strategy which anticipates that digital ordering kiosks (shown above) will replace cashiers in at least 2,500 restaurants by the end of 2017 and another 3,000 over 2018. Cowen also cited plans for the restaurant chain to roll out mobile ordering across 14,000 U.S. locations by the end of 2017 (we did not show that particular math, but the logic was similarly compelling).

Here is a snapshot of the math that Cowen, likely in conjunction with management, used to come up with the cost-savings as McDonalds increasingly lays off more and more minimum wage workers and replaces them with "Big Mac ATMs"

MCD is cultivating a digital platform through mobile ordering and Experience of the Future (EOTF), an in-store technological overhaul most conspicuous through kiosk ordering and table delivery. Our analysis suggests efforts should bear fruit in 2018 with a combined 130 bps contribution to U.S. comps. We believe mobile ordering better supplements the drive-thru business where 70%+ of U.S. sales are transacted. In our view, MCD's differentiation lies in the operational enhancements of mobile ordering that includes curbside pick-up of orders in order to not disrupt the drive-thru.
Below we show Cowen's full math laying out why the restaurant chain's client-facing fast food workers are now obsolete:

We are most excited for mobile ordering, Experience of the Future and the launch of fresh beef to help drive U.S. same store sales in 2018. We provide analysis for the latter three, which cumulatively we expect to contribute roughly 150 bps to U.S. same store sales in 2018, respectively. This gives us confidence to raise our 2018 U.S. same store sales forecast from 2% to 3%, in excess of Consensus Metrix’s 2.5%.

Michelle
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Admit it, you're broke

Post by Michelle »

Silver wrote: June 23rd, 2017, 12:04 pm If you work for minimum wage, you're broke and getting broker.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-2 ... e-its-math

McDonalds Is Replacing 2,500 Human Cashiers With Digital Kiosks: Here Is Its Math

by Tyler Durden
Jun 23, 2017 10:45 AM

The stock market is luvin' McDonalds stock, which has continued its recent relentless rise to all time highs, up 26% YTD, oblivious to the carnage among the broader restaurant and fast-food sector. There is a reason for Wall Street's euphoria: the same one we discussed in January in "Dear Bernie, Meet the "Big Mac ATM" That Will Replace All Of Your $15 Per Hour Fast Food Workers."

In a report released this week by Cowen's Andrew Charles, the analyst calculates the jump in sales as a result of the company's new Experience of the Future strategy which anticipates that digital ordering kiosks (shown above) will replace cashiers in at least 2,500 restaurants by the end of 2017 and another 3,000 over 2018. Cowen also cited plans for the restaurant chain to roll out mobile ordering across 14,000 U.S. locations by the end of 2017 (we did not show that particular math, but the logic was similarly compelling).

Here is a snapshot of the math that Cowen, likely in conjunction with management, used to come up with the cost-savings as McDonalds increasingly lays off more and more minimum wage workers and replaces them with "Big Mac ATMs"

MCD is cultivating a digital platform through mobile ordering and Experience of the Future (EOTF), an in-store technological overhaul most conspicuous through kiosk ordering and table delivery. Our analysis suggests efforts should bear fruit in 2018 with a combined 130 bps contribution to U.S. comps. We believe mobile ordering better supplements the drive-thru business where 70%+ of U.S. sales are transacted. In our view, MCD's differentiation lies in the operational enhancements of mobile ordering that includes curbside pick-up of orders in order to not disrupt the drive-thru.
Below we show Cowen's full math laying out why the restaurant chain's client-facing fast food workers are now obsolete:

We are most excited for mobile ordering, Experience of the Future and the launch of fresh beef to help drive U.S. same store sales in 2018. We provide analysis for the latter three, which cumulatively we expect to contribute roughly 150 bps to U.S. same store sales in 2018, respectively. This gives us confidence to raise our 2018 U.S. same store sales forecast from 2% to 3%, in excess of Consensus Metrix’s 2.5%.
As much as I don't like technology. It will be innovations like this that soften the blow of demographic winter.

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