Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

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britjas
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Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by britjas »

What political errors are we committing each election cycle that would cause us to loose our free institution? Here a portion of the letter.

Letter to the U.S. Treasury, September 30, 1941

“…the Church has not found it possible to follow along the lines of the present general tendency in the matter of property rights, taxes, the curtailment of rights and liberties of the people, nor in general the economic policies of what is termed the “New Deal”…

unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions

We believe that our real threat comes from within and not from without, and it comes from the underlying spirit common to Naziism, Fascism, and Communism, namely the spirit which would array class against class, which would set up a socialistic state of some sort, which would rob the people of the liberties which we possess under the Constitution, and would set up such a reign of terror as exists now in many parts of Europe…

…We confess to you that it has not been possible for us to unify our own people even upon the necessity of such a turning about, and therefore we cannot unfortunately, and we say it regretfully, make any practical suggestion to you as to how the nation can be turned about.”

(Heber J. Grant, also J. Ruben Clark, Jr. and David O. McKay signed as the First Presidency, written during World War II Letter to the U.S. Treasury, September 30, 1941)

lundbaek
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by lundbaek »

Political errors committed by many/most LDS voters:

failure/refusal to learn the principles of the US Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, or as the Lord intended them to be understood,

failure/refusal to learn what latter-day prophets have said about the US Constitution and the threats to it,

failure/refusal to try to become accurately informed about "things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations,...and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms--" In other words, failure to even try to awake to our "awful situation",

Until voters do just this much, I'd prefer they stay out of the political arena and don't vote, lest they contribute to making things worse.

jeanpierre
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by jeanpierre »

Does anybody really believe that LDS people who promote or support unconstitutional actions of government will forfeit their exaltation? Does the message in the letter by the First Presidency (above) apply today?

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triple777
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by triple777 »

Actually this is the same war as we had in heaven. If you support socialist, communist, fascism or kings then you are basically supporting Lucifer and not Christ. So in this manner you are anti-Christ, which is not good. Your soul could be at stake if you don't support freedom which of course was the exact same war we had in heaven. Once again you have to choose but this time you feel like you are alone. The holy spirit may give you comfort but you must choose again to follow Christ. This time however, when we do choose Christ the reward will be forever. Never again will we have to make this choice, forever will we be blessed to be as he is.

So yes, if you support anti-christ governments then you soul may be at risk. I know you have the question, what about all those saints living in communist countries they are told to support their governments. This is true. This is a very fine line. Danial, Shadrack, Meshack and Abindigo all had to live under communism and yet they still served god. They would obey every good law yet when a bad law was made they refused to follow it as they would offend god if they did. Death was the penalty of not follow the law of man. So be it said them all. The fire was built and the anger was flamed yet they did not burn, though they were put into the fire. They were willing to die to follow and server the one and only true god. They knew that death would not negate their exaltation but rather would guarantee it.

Those mormons that support communism will be in for a real shock when they are not saved, when they are shown to actually be supporting Lucifer's type of government. Which is tyranny with unspeakable acts of immorality.

Is there not a place for those that believed in Christ yet were fooled by the craftiness of men and lead away from Christ. Yes, there is a place prepared for these souls. In truth the most sorrowful group at the judgement. Could of been at the top yet faltered by deception.

lundbaek
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by lundbaek »

How can any Mormon today be faulted for not complying with one of the best kept secrets in the Church ?

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linj2fly
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by linj2fly »

This is the saddest part....
…We confess to you that it has not been possible for us to unify our own people even upon the necessity of such a turning about, and therefore we cannot unfortunately, and we say it regretfully, make any practical suggestion to you as to how the nation can be turned about.”
What turning about?
return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government
Our people were not unified upon this necessity then, and certainly not now.

What free institutions have we lost? Legitimate elections. Abridged responsibility to exercise charity. Freedom of Religion has been abridged, as well as the second amendment. A fetus' right to continue life. Abridgement of habeus corpus. Warrantless searches. Loss of a number of checks and balances between the three branches (for example, congress giving up it's authority to declare war to the executive. Unchecked executive orders. Activist judges). Police abuses that go unchecked. I'm sure we could enumerate more.

lundbaek
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by lundbaek »

Another 4 years of Obama & Co. might turn this nation about. "The benefit of this kind of evil in the White House is that good people will be more energized to fight.

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francisco.colaco
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by francisco.colaco »

Triple777,

I should remind you that Das Kommunistische Manifest , or originally, Manifest der Kommunistischen Partei, was issued in 1848 AD.

You are right about what you say about communism, and the First Presidency in 1941 has never been more right. No political errors were made in those quotes. Nevertheless those members that support communism will not be automatically cast away into the fore and brimstone (how dramatic!), but will in due time have the time to repent. Most of the people that support communism are not the soulless bastards that lead the communist movement; they are compassionate people that believe erroneously that communism makes a better and more just society. Which I and you know it does not.

Let's face it: what Hollywood says of the United States live style is not very commendable. You, Triple777, may be there to tell the difference, but people elsewhere will be fooled by the very own poison you, the United States, supply them for a profit.

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francisco.colaco
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by francisco.colaco »

lundbaek,

Four more years of Obama and the rest of the world will stop worrying about the United States as a nation by the end of the first year.

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seer stone
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by seer stone »

One of the largest political errors that citizens make is the loyalty they give to political parties, instead of voting for worthy principles. People are asleep to the corruption that has infiltrating within most political parties, especially the two major ones. There should never be the option of voting straight party on any ballot.

I also think that we as citizens are not properly informed on every candidate. It's most likely that the candidates with the largest pockets have best access to the media. You really have to dig deep to find good information on each nominee to form a good opinion on who would serve in the best capacity. It seems to me there should and must be an easier way to retrieve this valuable information before each election cycle.

lundbaek
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by lundbaek »

Of course we as citizens are not properly informed on every candidate and every issue. But there is no easier way to retrieve this valuable information before each election cycle. Becoming informed must be a ongoing effort on our part. Waiting until election time and praying for guidance when the ballot is in hand is not gonna work.

"We must become accurately informed..." A prophet, President Benson, told us that in the October 1987 General Conference. In that same talk the Prophet told us "...we must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers." He also said that "...we must become involved in civic affairs to see that we are properly represented."

President Uchtdorf, speaking in the Priesthood session of the October 2009 General Conference,( that is, to us in our day), reminded us that "For members of the Church, education is not merely a good idea—it’s a commandment. We are to learn "of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad;" The remainder of that Verse 79, which was referenced in the published version President Uchtdorf's address, reads "The wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgements which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms–" A knowledge about these things is essential to understanding the threats that prophets have warned will afflict us in our time.

American LDS voters in general have not made these efforts, or in other words they have generally ignored the divinely inspired advice given them.

EmmaLee
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by EmmaLee »

francisco.colaco wrote:You, Triple777, may be there to tell the difference, but people elsewhere will be fooled by the very own poison you, the United States, supply them for a profit.
Lest you think "people elsewhere" are so squeaky clean - there would be no supply from "here" if there was no demand from "elsewhere". People who are "fooled" by anything/anyone have no one to blame but themselves.

EmmaLee
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by EmmaLee »

francisco.colaco wrote:Four more years of Obama and the rest of the world will stop worrying about the United States as a nation by the end of the first year.
Good, then maybe all you America haters will go elsewhere. Or here's an idea - fix your own countries/governments/cultures, etc.. etc.. etc...

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francisco.colaco
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by francisco.colaco »

Stella Solaris,

I am not an america hater. Please read my previous posts, and they should shed a light on the subject.

My main point is the following: United States has months or at the most a few years to live. If the republican candidate wins, riots will outburst. If Obama wins, the dollar will depreciate and (quantitatively easing speaking) will be worth nothing in a matter of months. The United States have not heeded to the sayings of the prophets and the teachings of good sense in economics and entered in a debt spiral that ultimately will doom it. And let us face it: the rest of the world can not bail out US. That is just not possible. Nor to take the onus of a default, be it done through negation or by that schemy hyperinflation trickery.

What happens there has already happened in Europe. Take my country as an example: in just 6 years of corrupt socialist government, the debt raised from 60% to 93% of the GDP, and stands now over 110%. My country is basically broken, and for the first time since 1925, street violence erupted (although we are far in that respect from the likes of Greece, Cyprus and Spain). The problem now is not how to maintain the state functions, which the incumbents propale every single day, but which functions will survive in a letter government.

Obama has raised the debt 60%, from 10 to 16 trillion in just 4 years. If the debt interest raises to say, 5%, it will be unpayable. Now, who will suffer the most with the disarray of the state? Those that depend on it. They will cling to the idea that the state is reformable and all privileges will be maintained. As long as they can. Here, we are closing to the idea that I have been writing for years: there is no way we can maintain such a big and inneficient government. Feeding the false notion that some will have something for nothing has ruined Europe and the United States. The results are already seen in some european nations. The United States are bound to fall, on their own guilt, after repeatedly having been warned by the Church leadership and, most importantly, by intelligent and unbiased economists.

As we say here, "St. Paul Kruger is about to fall off the altar".

EmmaLee
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by EmmaLee »

What's funny is that people like you come here to LDSFF (very late in the game, I might add) and think you're telling us something we don't already know. We all know and understand everything you just said in your last post, for example. Who do you think you're preaching to? The only people who don't understand all this are those who think Romney will be any different than Obama (as if the president is really the one running things).

No offense intended (unlike, seemingly, many of your posts), but you come across as extremely arrogant and condescending. Like we're a bunch of ignorant babies who know nothing of our own country and we need someone from Portugal or elsewhere coming here and laying it all out on the line for us. Americans who are 'awake' (which is the vast majority on LDSFF) are very well aware that our nation is in its death-throes, and we have known this for years. We're also well aware of what has happened in Europe.

And I have read your posts, in fact, every one of them - that's what has led me to the inescapable conclusion I came to above...

lundbaek
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by lundbaek »

The most significant statement on this thread thus far is: "The United States have not heeded to the sayings of the prophets". I can understand and even forgive that as it applies to most Americans. But the vast majority of Mormons have also ignored (and worse in some cases) what prophets told them Re. their acts in relation to government.

I find that many Latter-day Saints, consider themselves righteous enough that the Lord will protect them from the calamities that have been prophesied that would afflict America and other nations as well. Most seem to consider themselves too busy to be concerned about the warnings and admonitions that I bring to your attention below. Many otherwise good LDSs are striving to keep all the commandments, but seem oblivious to certain commandments that pertain to maintaining our freedoms. I note an unawareness or disinterest specifically in the following commandments:

1.) "....suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you. . . . Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you." and "....awake to a sense of your awful situation. . . ." [Ether 8:20-26]. Nephi (ben Lehi) prophesied "concerning the last days;" and included in his prophecy that there will be "secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil,..." [2 Nephi 26: 14& 22]. And in the October 1988 Church General Conference, President Ezra Taft Benson told us that "Secret combinations lusting for power, gain and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world." And President Packer, in his August 2010 Ensign article, reissued Moroni's warning (Pg.23). Are we generally awake and alert to this "awful situation"?


2.) "....befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;" [D&C 98:6] or as President Packer put it on 2 July 2009, "To honor the Constitution and to honor freedom is a sacred duty for all of us." The Lord has made it clear enough that He established the Constitution of this land by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto this very purpose. [D&C 101:77&80]. And in 1987 we were told by the First Presidency of the Church that "We encourage Latter-day Saints throughout the nation to familiarize themselves with the Constitution. They should focus attention on it by reading and studying it. They should ponder the blessings that come through it. They should recommit themselves to its principles and be prepared to defend it and the freedom it provides." (From a First Presidency statement in 1987) We should understand the Constitution as the founders meant that it should be understood. President Ezra Taft Benson stated at least once that I know of : "For years we have heard of the role the elders could play in saving the Constitution from total destruction. But how can the elders be expected to save it if they have not studied it and are not sure if it is being destroyed or what is destroying it?" ("An Enemy Hath Done This", Pg 313)

3.) President Uchtdorf, speaking in the Priesthood session of the October 2009 General Conference,( that is, to us in our day), reminded us that "For members of the Church, education is not merely a good idea—it’s a commandment. We are to learn "of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad;" The remainder of that Verse 79, which was referenced in the published version President Uchtdorf's address, reads "The wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgements which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms–" A knowledge about these things is essential to understanding the threats that prophets have warned will afflict us in our time.

4.) I think it is wise to consider D&C 134:1, which says that the Lord "...holds men accountable for their actions in relation to them (governments), both in making laws and in administering them, for the good and safety of society." It should be clear that since the Lord established the Constitution of this land by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto this very purpose, He intended us to do our part to insure that our government would abide by its principles. "May we be wise—prayerfully wise—in the electing of those who would lead us. May we select only those who understand and will adhere to constitutional principles. To do so, we need to understand these principles ourselves." (Ezra Taft Benson, "The Constitution—A Glorious Standard")

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francisco.colaco
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by francisco.colaco »

Stella Solaris,

I am afraid you misread me, then. As to being one of the 11th hour, I just found the forum last July and joined in August. I can't be blamed, for sure, for being late to a party I did not know about, can I? :)

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francisco.colaco
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by francisco.colaco »

Lundbaek,

Are you sure that if Romney wins the election, the supposed inauguration would be at the 21st of January (a Monday, 20th is Sunday)? Would the riot situation that would ensue lead the leaving president to declare the martial law (or use another legislative obstruction) to delay the inauguration of Romney?

Would not *then* be the constitution hanging by a thread?

EmmaLee
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by EmmaLee »

francisco.colaco wrote:Stella Solaris,
I am afraid you misread me, then. As to being one of the 11th hour, I just found the forum last July and joined in August. I can't be blamed, for sure, for being late to a party I did not know about, can I? :)
I'm sorry if I'm misreading you. Perhaps it is a cultural/language/personality difference. I wasn't blaming you for being late to join LDSFF - what I meant was, you came here both barrels blasting away just a short time ago, acting like you're revealing all this (about the U.S. specifically) to us for the first time - when the fact is, we've known and understood what a royal mess we're in for many years now.

lundbaek
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by lundbaek »

I do not recall saying anything suggesting the presidential inauguration would be on Monday 21 January, or anything at all about possible riots if Romney is elected. Sorry, but it's out of my area of interest just now.

EmmaLee
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by EmmaLee »

francisco.colaco wrote:Are you sure that if Romney wins the election, the supposed inauguration would be at the 21st of January (a Monday, 20th is Sunday)?

The 2013 Presidential Inauguration will be held in Washington DC on Monday, January 21, 2013. By law, the President must take his Oath of Office on January 20th before noon. Since the 20th falls on a Sunday, there will be a private ceremony on that date and the public ceremony will be held the following day.

Would the riot situation that would ensue lead the leaving president to declare the martial law (or use another legislative obstruction) to delay the inauguration of Romney? There will be no riots or martial law, regardless of who is installed. Besides, it's a moot point as, I believe, the people who decide such things will not allow Romney to 'win'.

Would not *then* be the constitution hanging by a thread? It's been hanging very precariously since Lincoln. The thread is now nonexistent, IMO; and has been for years.

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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by creator »

jeanpierre wrote:Does anybody really believe that LDS people who promote or support unconstitutional actions of government will forfeit their exaltation?
Supporting immoral government acts (or candidates that support such), such as legalized theft (i.e. socialistic redistribution of wealth), is one of the most uncharitable things you can do. It's plain wrong and evil. If you vote for someone to do evil on your behalf, should you not be held accountable?

Here's another question that could answer your question for you. Jesus said one of the two great commandments is to love your neighbor... do you forfeit your exaltation by not living up to that commandment?

lundbaek
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Re: Political errors- 1st Presidency Proclamation -from 1941

Post by lundbaek »

If supporting "the proper role of government", studying, upholding and abiding by the principles of the US Constitution, striving to preserve and perpetuate our freedom, and otherwise doing all we can to preserve the freedoms we have, within the bounds of the laws of God, is so important, why then is this still one of the best kept secrets in the Church ? How can members of the Church be expected to understand this when such prominent members as Mitt Romney, Orrin Hatch, Bob Bennett, Jon Huntsman, and other prominent LDS Constitution shredders promote and support immoral and unconstitutional acts of government ? Some of us here understand these concerns, but per my observation and experience in the political arena, most members do not, and I feel they are being deprived of that knowledge by the silence on this subject.

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