Latinos and the Immigration Question

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jonholb55
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Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jonholb55 »

As with every election cycle, the question of immigration comes to the fore-front, especially as it affects the Hispanic community in the United States. Support from Latinos for the Romney/Ryan ticket seems to be diminishing if you believe current news reports. Some Hispanic leaders are telling the news media that they cannot support the Romney/Ryan Ticket because of some of the comments that Mitt Romney said about illegal immigration. As a result a large percentage of them support the re-election of Barack Obama. I am somewhat skeptical of these news reports since the mainstream news media is "in the tank" for the Obama while they try to suppress the conservative vote. The Democrats seem to look upon the Hispanic community just as a source of new voters. Latinos are promised everything just as long as they vote the Democrat ticket. The Romney/Ryan ticket needs to state that should they win the election in November that long-range immigration reform will be at the top of their agenda. Barack Obama and the Democrats have failed to do this. Barack Obama has fretted around the edges of immigration reform by putting into effect some portions of the "Dream Act" through executive order. Barack Obama has acted like a dictator by circumventing the Congress of the United States on this and other important issues. The Republicans should make it very clear to the Hispanic community that they will work on immigration reform after consulting all interested parties from the Tea Party movement to responsible Hispanic leaders who desire to be part of and contribute to the larger American community, just as earlier immigrants wanted to work towards becoming naturalized American citizens. This effort needs to be done with a goal in mind to maintain the rule of law, the original intent of the Constitution, with no hint of of political favortism, discrimination or reverse discrimination.
Thank-You

jonesde
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jonesde »

Whether from Latin America or any other part of the world, a lot needs to be happen to simplify immigration before the laws will be reasonable and rational. Without reasonable and rational law the rule of law is impossible. With immigration as with so many other federal, state, and local laws in the USA they are so far reaching and involve so much subjective judgment that there is no rule of law in this country, not even sort of... it is very much rule by bureaucrat and political pressure.

The Democrats talk a good talk about immigration-friendly policy, but it is bologna and what they actually do is very different. The Republicans have a bigger issue... for decades they have been both riding and promoting a wave of bigotry and protectionism that would be very difficult to move away from.

lundbaek
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by lundbaek »

This is my opinion on amnesty and immigration.

There is a satanically driven conspiracy involving certain powerful and wealthy persons in high positions to push global governance upon the world, including the United States, by establishing highly regulatory government devoid of restrictions imposed by the U.S. Constitution. Here in the United States a no longer so secret combination is currently working to overthrow Americans' freedom by totally destroying its Constitution and changing its constitutional representative government into a highly centralized socialist government. The strategy, guided by Satan as far as the Lord will permit him, is a multi-pronged attack on the American dollar, economy, culture, education system, moral fibre, military strength, and industrial strength to reduce Americans to a willingness to accept a socialist or fascist government. They are fomenting shooting wars to weaken America's military and destroy its wealth. They are destroying its industries to destroy its wealth. They are diluting its dollars with unbacked dollars created out of nothing. They are destroying its moral fibre with drugs, immorality of all sorts, and socialism. They are fomenting illegal immigration to destroy its culture and siphon off its wealth. They are striving to increase the size of the socialist voting bloc by securing voting rights for immigrants of socialist persuasion.

Most Americans are oblivious of this plot. They are not aware of the concerted attacks against the freedoms of Americans in order to make such a shambles of our country that "we the people" will willingly submit to a world government. They do not recognize the efforts to destroy this nation thru destruction of its wealth, culture, industrial capability, moral fibre, minimizing its military power, and changing its government from a constitutional republic to something akin to a socialist dictatorship. IMO there is no better word than TREASON to describe what is being done to our nation in the effort to establish a global government. Yet many Americans are supporting things and people that contribute to the destruction of their country and its original form of government as established by the Lord by the hands of wise men whom he raised up unto that very purpose.

Many Americans can see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the alteration of our form of government. Many do realize that certain elements of the U.S. FedGov are fomenting and supporting in various ways this influx of illegal immigrants, most obvious because of the FedGov's refusal to protect the U.S. borders as it is required to do by the U.S. Constitution.

Unfortunately, there are Americans who believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force others to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others, including illegal immigrants. But fortunately more and more Latter-day Saints are longing for and are working hard for a return of the principles of the original U.S. Constitution to government in America. And more and more of these people strongly disagree with those who believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force people to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others. They realize that to contribute of one's own wealth to charity is righteous, but to use other people's wealth for charity is legalized plunder (a.k.a. theft).

jonesde
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jonesde »

lundbaek wrote: Many Americans can see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the alteration of our form of government.
When applied to this context, a better definition of bigotry I have not seen. What is the difference between people in the USA and people in Latin America or other parts of the world that want to immigrate to the USA?

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Fairminded
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by Fairminded »

jonesde wrote:
lundbaek wrote: Many Americans can see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the alteration of our form of government.
When applied to this context, a better definition of bigotry I have not seen. What is the difference between people in the USA and people in Latin America or other parts of the world that want to immigrate to the USA?
Brown skin and a different language.

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ajax
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by ajax »

Maybe simplistic, but the way I see it, a nation that has a welfare-warfare state needs strong immigration laws. Without a welfare-warfare state, immigration is a non issue.

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jbalm
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jbalm »

jonesde wrote:
lundbaek wrote: Many Americans can see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the alteration of our form of government.
When applied to this context, a better definition of bigotry I have not seen. What is the difference between people in the USA and people in Latin America or other parts of the world that want to immigrate to the USA?
Lundbaek specifically to illegal immigration.

The response is a non-sequitur. Similar responses are commonly given by those who wish to make illegal immigration into a racial thing.

lundbaek
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by lundbaek »

If I am bigoted against anybody, it is against people who fail to see how and why the latter-day gadiantons are using illegal immigration to purposely make a shambles of this country and think they are being righteous in supporting it. But I don't expect many people to recognize that the fomenting of illegal immigration is part of that conspiracy.

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Fairminded
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by Fairminded »

ajax wrote:Maybe simplistic, but the way I see it, a nation that has a welfare-warfare state needs strong immigration laws. Without a welfare-warfare state, immigration is a non issue.
+1. Take away all the government entitlement programs and suddenly no one has a reason to care about illegal immigrants. And that's only one of the benefits.

Liberty_Agent
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by Liberty_Agent »

When applied to this context, a better definition of bigotry I have not seen. What is the difference between people in the USA and people in Latin America or other parts of the world that want to immigrate to the USA?

Lower racial intelligence, decreased cognitive abilities, violent behavior, non-Western culture, exotic religious practices, and dual loyalty. The fact that there are still people on the Right & Left promoting racial egalitarianism is laughable. It's an unscientific and as embarrassing as Creationism. Honestly, the atheistic and secular understanding is exactly as childish. It goes: 100,000 or some odd years ago we came out of Eastern Africa, went all over the world, underwent extreme environmental pressure and tens of thousands of years of isolation... but we're all exactly the same! hurr durr. It's debunked by every IQ study available to us and common sense.


The fact of the matter is that Persia, Egypt, Vedic civilization, Greece, Rome, and possibly even Sumer were created by people who were racially European. Many of these civilizations fell when race mixing began to be prevalent. Aryans in Iran were doomed from the beginning, due to the indigenous Elamite Dravidians. Same with Vedics. America probably has a similar fate, you can thank the liberal Catholics & Protestants for starting this nonsense. Then the Jews and liberal Mormons jumping in.

The religious side of me would say... hideous off-springs of deformed Fomorians, they are not offsprings of the Gods and thus are on the same level as an intelligent animal. Which isn't a bad thing, but isn't good. They are not folk nor kin and were always better off being ruled over rather than on an equal playing field.

jonesde
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jonesde »

I wonder... if Christ were to tell the story of the Good Samaritan in the United States today, which ethnic group would he choose instead of someone from Samaria that would be more applicable to this context?

Would he choose a Mexican, or maybe a Muslim?

Liberty_Agent
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by Liberty_Agent »

The historical Jesus was pretty racist. As shown in the story about the Canaanite. And he was a Galilean, not a Jew. He was actually pretty prejudice against the Jewish religion and culture which he considered inferior. 90% of his speeches were against Rabbinical Judaism, Sadducee, and Mosaic Jews. All of which were going around like barbarians stoning women and people who uttered the name "Jehova." He had much more in common with the high classical Greek culture than a bunch of people chanting "Ooga booga yahweh.. ooga booga yahweh" over a campfire.


It should also be noted that in the original greek, Jesus defined "nation" by the ethnicity of the inhabitants.

Liberty_Agent
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by Liberty_Agent »

jonesde wrote:I wonder... if Christ were to tell the story of the Good Samaritan in the United States today, which ethnic group would he choose instead of someone from Samaria that would be more applicable to this context?

Would he choose a Mexican, or maybe a Muslim?

May be Jesus would go to Israel and choose a Palestinian. Protesting against the Khazarian-Ashkenazi racism against actual levantines.

lundbaek
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by lundbaek »

The Good Samaritan took care of the injured man himself without creating a situation in which others were forced to contribute to the injured man's welfare.

jonesde
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jonesde »

lundbaek wrote:The Good Samaritan took care of the injured man himself without creating a situation in which others were forced to contribute to the injured man's welfare.
Why am I having a hard time seeing your point past the stark contrast in compassion?

lundbaek
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by lundbaek »

Many Mormons do not see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the planned alteration of our form of government.

Many Mormons believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force others to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others, including illegal immigrants.

Many Mormons do not realize that to contribute of one's own wealth to charity is righteous, but to use other people's wealth for charity is legalized plunder (a.k.a. theft).

Many Mormons are unaware of the conspiracy that is fomenting illegal immgration from behind the scenes.

Many Mormons didn't catch the words in the LDS Church policy statement on ommigration of 10 June 2011 ""As a matter of policy, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discourages its members from entering any country without legal documentation, and from deliberately overstaying legal travel visas."

jonesde
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jonesde »

lundbaek wrote:Many Mormons do not see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the planned alteration of our form of government.

Many Mormons believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force others to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others, including illegal immigrants.

Many Mormons do not realize that to contribute of one's own wealth to charity is righteous, but to use other people's wealth for charity is legalized plunder (a.k.a. theft).

Many Mormons are unaware of the conspiracy that is fomenting illegal immgration from behind the scenes.

Many Mormons didn't catch the words in the LDS Church policy statement on ommigration of 10 June 2011 ""As a matter of policy, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discourages its members from entering any country without legal documentation, and from deliberately overstaying legal travel visas."
So why are you so hard on immigrant and immigration instead of on the actual problem, the welfare and redistribution programs and the politicians and voters that support them?

Even without immigrants participating in these programs they are VERY immoral and harmful. So called "fixing" or stopping immigration (legal or illegal) won't solve the problem. Eliminating welfare and "entitlement" programs and booting the greedy politicians and bureaucrats that skim spoils from those programs is the only way to solve it.

Liberty_Agent
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by Liberty_Agent »

I think Israel should have 100% open borders and African immigrants shouldn't be denied access. I would love for the population of Sudan to fit within Jerusalem.

Zkulptor
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by Zkulptor »

Liberty_Agent wrote:
When applied to this context, a better definition of bigotry I have not seen. What is the difference between people in the USA and people in Latin America or other parts of the world that want to immigrate to the USA?

Lower racial intelligence, decreased cognitive abilities, violent behavior, non-Western culture, exotic religious practices, and dual loyalty. The fact that there are still people on the Right & Left promoting racial egalitarianism is laughable. It's an unscientific and as embarrassing as Creationism. Honestly, the atheistic and secular understanding is exactly as childish. It goes: 100,000 or some odd years ago we came out of Eastern Africa, went all over the world, underwent extreme environmental pressure and tens of thousands of years of isolation... but we're all exactly the same! hurr durr. It's debunked by every IQ study available to us and common sense.


The fact of the matter is that Persia, Egypt, Vedic civilization, Greece, Rome, and possibly even Sumer were created by people who were racially European. Many of these civilizations fell when race mixing began to be prevalent. Aryans in Iran were doomed from the beginning, due to the indigenous Elamite Dravidians. Same with Vedics. America probably has a similar fate, you can thank the liberal Catholics & Protestants for starting this nonsense. Then the Jews and liberal Mormons jumping in.

The religious side of me would say... hideous off-springs of deformed Fomorians, they are not offsprings of the Gods and thus are on the same level as an intelligent animal. Which isn't a bad thing, but isn't good. They are not folk nor kin and were always better off being ruled over rather than on an equal playing field.
Please tell me you are joking....

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jbalm
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jbalm »

Zkulptor wrote:
Liberty_Agent wrote:
When applied to this context, a better definition of bigotry I have not seen. What is the difference between people in the USA and people in Latin America or other parts of the world that want to immigrate to the USA?

Lower racial intelligence, decreased cognitive abilities, violent behavior, non-Western culture, exotic religious practices, and dual loyalty. The fact that there are still people on the Right & Left promoting racial egalitarianism is laughable. It's an unscientific and as embarrassing as Creationism. Honestly, the atheistic and secular understanding is exactly as childish. It goes: 100,000 or some odd years ago we came out of Eastern Africa, went all over the world, underwent extreme environmental pressure and tens of thousands of years of isolation... but we're all exactly the same! hurr durr. It's debunked by every IQ study available to us and common sense.


The fact of the matter is that Persia, Egypt, Vedic civilization, Greece, Rome, and possibly even Sumer were created by people who were racially European. Many of these civilizations fell when race mixing began to be prevalent. Aryans in Iran were doomed from the beginning, due to the indigenous Elamite Dravidians. Same with Vedics. America probably has a similar fate, you can thank the liberal Catholics & Protestants for starting this nonsense. Then the Jews and liberal Mormons jumping in.

The religious side of me would say... hideous off-springs of deformed Fomorians, they are not offsprings of the Gods and thus are on the same level as an intelligent animal. Which isn't a bad thing, but isn't good. They are not folk nor kin and were always better off being ruled over rather than on an equal playing field.
Please tell me you are joking....
He isn't. Go search his posts. You will notice a common theme.

Zkulptor
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by Zkulptor »

jbalm wrote:
He isn't. Go search his posts. You will notice a common theme.
Yeah, just did... thanks! I feel sorry for that way of thinking.

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jbalm
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jbalm »

Kind of makes the fact that Mark got banned for a really innocuous comment look extra silly, doesn't it?

natasha
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by natasha »

jbalm wrote:Kind of makes the fact that Mark got banned for a really innocuous comment look extra silly, doesn't it?

Agreed!!!

lundbaek
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by lundbaek »

Jonesde and probably some others seem to think I am hard on immigrants and immigration instead of on the actual problem (which it appears few people recognize). It is not the illegal immigrants that I resent (other than the dozen or so who lived for a while in one house in our neighborhood until I reported them to the police for trashing the property with their rubbish, disabled cars, waist-high weeds, etc.)

My resentment is directed toward people, including some I associate with in church, who believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force others to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others, including illegal immigrants, and fail to realize that to contribute of one's own wealth to charity is righteous, but to use other people's wealth for charity is legalized plunder (a.k.a. theft). And it is increasing toward people who in spite of plenty of opportunity, still do not see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the planned alteration of our form of government.

jonesde
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Re: Latinos and the Immigration Question

Post by jonesde »

lundbaek wrote:Jonesde and probably some others seem to think I am hard on immigrants and immigration instead of on the actual problem (which it appears few people recognize). It is not the illegal immigrants that I resent (other than the dozen or so who lived for a while in one house in our neighborhood until I reported them to the police for trashing the property with their rubbish, disabled cars, waist-high weeds, etc.)
I hope that this annoyance is with them individually and not with them as immigrants. Even still, unless you live in a voluntary deed-restricted neighborhood it's either their property or property owned by a landlord, and not yours so using force (govt or otherwise) to get them to clean it up is not really moral.

If you really want it cleaned up, and maybe make some friends and serve them and your other neighbors at the same time, ask them if you can help clean up their yard. It's amazing how many problems can be solved by this sort of thing and how many opportunities it creates compared to the force solution... more on that below.
lundbaek wrote:My resentment is directed toward people, including some I associate with in church, who believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force others to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others, including illegal immigrants, and fail to realize that to contribute of one's own wealth to charity is righteous, but to use other people's wealth for charity is legalized plunder (a.k.a. theft).
Yes, exactly, and well put. As in the example I mentioned above using something other than force to solve problems, voluntary charity benefits all involved both in the moment of need and long-term with build up of relationships and community. Knowing it is voluntary encourages people to become more self-sufficient if they can as opposed to feeling entitled over time (part of the message of forced redistribution of wealth... and not even an implied message, they are gallingly called this on purpose!).
lundbaek wrote:And it is increasing toward people who in spite of plenty of opportunity, still do not see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the planned alteration of our form of government.
National wealth: people willing to work for lower wages open more opportunities for the rest of us to spend less and thereby either choose to earn less, or choose to build skills to earn more and live better.

Moral fibre: can it get much worse than it is in the USA? There are certain parts of the world that are more violent/aggressive, and others that are more sexually immoral, but the USA is a worrisome blend of the two. I think the only thing that the people of the USA do more than others is hypocrisy... most just try to look moral without actually constraining their behavior. In other countries that are less moral one way or another at least they are more open and honest about it. In fact, hypocrisy is SO rampant in the USA (for all types of wickedness, perhaps especially violence) that I doubt the USA is really any better, just keeps it more hidden.

Culture: in the first place US culture is a melting pot of many different cultures... and it's great! For the negative aspects of culture... welcome to America, the cultural laughing stock of the developed world.

It may very well be that certain forms of immigration (especially encouraging illegal immigration to attract certain types and set the tone of their presence and lifestyle here) is part of some evil plan... but it is the evil planning we should be going after and not those simply looking for a better life... and willing for take risks and work hard for it.

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