Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

[bethany]

While I would not be surprised if it turned out that there was some electromagnetic activity going on with plants in response to injury to leaves, for instance, I fail to see how this would validate practices in energy healing. Energy work includes such things as waving a wand with an eye carved in to the end around a person's head and telling them 'there is no right or wrong' - what the heck is that all about and what possible way is that supposed to accomplish anything?

Never used a wand or anything like you are talking about. Much less told anyone there is no right or wrong. So if I study the satanic bible can I disprove your faith?

[Rose Garden]

I understand how a television works - maybe I'm different but I assume most people like to understand at least at a high level how things around us work. We're taught to seek healing through the priesthood after all that we can do medically (Dallin Oaks). If energy healing is actually a priesthood ordinance, why isn't it mentioned anywhere in scriptures / through modern prophets. If it is medically-based, I would want to make sure I were doing it the correct way so this is where the scientific studies would be needed.

I looked a bit at David Wilcock's book, parts of which seem interesting - however most everything in it is pseudoscience. For the few phenomenon I was able to look into that he discussed, none of these (such as Baxter effect) have been able to be reliably reproduced. On other points, his findings were mostly his supposition with cherry-picked data and nothing concrete to test.

While I would not be surprised if it turned out that there was some electromagnetic activity going on with plants in response to injury to leaves, for instance, I fail to see how this would validate practices in energy healing. Energy work includes such things as waving a wand with an eye carved in to the end around a person's head and telling them 'there is no right or wrong' - what the heck is that all about and what possible way is that supposed to accomplish anything?

So you read the preview and table of contents? Or did you read more? By what criteria do you determine that it is pseudoscience? And how do you know the experiments can't be reproduced?

The plant chapter was cool, but I was thinking more along the lines of the discussion about the third eye, telepathy, hypnotism, and pyramids. I have friends who have reproduced some of the effects mentioned in the pyramid chapter. That alone is strong evidence of the likelihood of energy work being probable.

I've never heard of anyone engaging in the practice you mention above. If someone claims that is energy work, it is certainly not mainstream.

[nvr]

I think the burden of proof is on the energy work proponents to say this is a legitimate science, that is repeatable and here's the steps to reproduce. Wilcock's book didn't seem to discuss energy healing anywhere from what I could see. If studies were done, I think what will turn out is no scientific phenomenon can be shown to exist beyond statistical noise. If this is a legit treatment, it could change the world and it deserves very serious, careful studies with hypothesis and conclusions etc outlined to pinpoint and describe the mechanism of action. Then it could be replicated and shared by others to benefit mankind. In reality, I think it is just an esoteric-sounding tool that gurus trot out to impress people and dupe them with to extract money.

[nvr]

While I would not be surprised if it turned out that there was some electromagnetic activity going on with plants in response to injury to leaves, for instance, I fail to see how this would validate practices in energy healing. Energy work includes such things as waving a wand with an eye carved in to the end around a person's head and telling them 'there is no right or wrong' - what the heck is that all about and what possible way is that supposed to accomplish anything?

Never used a wand or anything like you are talking about. Much less told anyone there is no right or wrong. So if I study the satanic bible can I disprove your faith?

See this post for the story of woman who experienced this during a session by another "LDS" member:
viewtopic.php?t=14492&start=30#p156838

The book she gifter her was by Carol Tuttle a few posts down

viewtopic.php?t=14492&start=30#p156919

[Rose Garden]

I think the burden of proof is on the energy work proponents to say this is a legitimate science, that is repeatable and here's the steps to reproduce. Wilcock's book didn't seem to discuss energy healing anywhere from what I could see. If studies were done, I think what will turn out is no scientific phenomenon can be shown to exist beyond statistical noise. If this is a legit treatment, it could change the world and it deserves very serious, careful studies with hypothesis and conclusions etc outlined to pinpoint and describe the mechanism of action. Then it could be replicated and shared by others to benefit mankind. In reality, I think it is just an esoteric-sounding tool that gurus trot out to impress people and dupe them with to extract money.

Fair enough. If you want solid scientific proof before you will delve into energy work then that is your prerogative. I offered you what I could but if it is insufficient then that is your place to judge.

I myself don't require professional studies to be done before I will do my own personal experimentation. I'm not willing to wait that long to figure things out. As I've said other places, I use energy work daily. It works for me.

[Rose Garden]

While I would not be surprised if it turned out that there was some electromagnetic activity going on with plants in response to injury to leaves, for instance, I fail to see how this would validate practices in energy healing. Energy work includes such things as waving a wand with an eye carved in to the end around a person's head and telling them 'there is no right or wrong' - what the heck is that all about and what possible way is that supposed to accomplish anything?

Never used a wand or anything like you are talking about. Much less told anyone there is no right or wrong. So if I study the satanic bible can I disprove your faith?

See this post for the story of woman who experienced this during a session by another "LDS" member:
viewtopic.php?t=14492&start=30#p156838

The book she gifter her was by Carol Tuttle a few posts down

viewtopic.php?t=14492&start=30#p156919

NVR, that story is not typical of energy healing.

[bethany]

So by lumping all Christianity together I can prove you guilty of the Spanish Inquisition & countless other acts & beliefs. I never read Tuttle, I did use her chart of negative emotions that lists the positives to replace with. The lds woman gifting a book does not infer she got her information from that book. I refer ppl to Dr. Nelson's work, but I use lasers. I can't attribute my forays into other tools to assist me to him.

If someone doing energy chooses to wander into dark stuff, that is their individual choice and they should be weighed on their own merits. If a bishop molests someone you'd be the first to scream that it does not represent the church's intentions. You'd want that separated post haste. And I've known SP's & bishops who've done so. It's called separating wheat & tares & it permeates everything in life.

Let me know when they decide to ex the Nelson's and those like him.... He does travel the world and rake in notoriety and $$$. You guys like to browbeat the little guys, but I don't see them taking down the big guys.

[nvr]

So by lumping all Christianity together I can prove you guilty of the Spanish Inquisition & countless other acts & beliefs. I never read Tuttle, I did use her chart of negative emotions that lists the positives to replace with. The lds woman gifting a book does not infer she got her information from that book. I refer ppl to Dr. Nelson's work, but I use lasers. I can't attribute my forays into other tools to assist me to him.

If someone doing energy chooses to wander into dark stuff, that is their individual choice and they should be weighed on their own merits. If a bishop molests someone you'd be the first to scream that it does not represent the church's intentions. You'd want that separated post haste. And I've known SP's & bishops who've done so. It's called separating wheat & tares & it permeates everything in life.

Let me know when they decide to ex the Nelson's and those like him.... He does travel the world and rake in notoriety and $$$. You guys like to browbeat the little guys, but I don't see them taking down the big guys.

I don't mean to dissuade any of you current energy work practitioners from what you're doing. I just wanted to clear the air about this topic. To summarize, It appears that this stuff has no relation to healing by the priesthood (power of God) and that there is no testable scientific basis to support the claims made.

[kathedralegs]

So by lumping all Christianity together I can prove you guilty of the Spanish Inquisition & countless other acts & beliefs. I never read Tuttle, I did use her chart of negative emotions that lists the positives to replace with. The lds woman gifting a book does not infer she got her information from that book. I refer ppl to Dr. Nelson's work, but I use lasers. I can't attribute my forays into other tools to assist me to him.

If someone doing energy chooses to wander into dark stuff, that is their individual choice and they should be weighed on their own merits. If a bishop molests someone you'd be the first to scream that it does not represent the church's intentions. You'd want that separated post haste. And I've known SP's & bishops who've done so. It's called separating wheat & tares & it permeates everything in life.

Let me know when they decide to ex the Nelson's and those like him.... He does travel the world and rake in notoriety and $$$. You guys like to browbeat the little guys, but I don't see them taking down the big guys.

Yes ^^^^By their "fruits" right? Why is so much of this discussion based on fear and a bit of ignorance? We all have responsibility to follow the Lord's will for us. That requires us to recognize His voice and follow. Everyone has different levels of understanding and even desire to gain knowledge and understanding. Why do we assume as "westerners" that we have reached the pinnacle of understanding regarding "energy"? If our hearts desire righteousness and we are teachable and humble as little children, the Lord will teach us and correct as needed.

[JohnnyL]

I don't mean to dissuade any of you current energy work practitioners from what you're doing. I just wanted to clear the air about this topic. To summarize, It appears that this stuff has no relation to healing by the priesthood (power of God) and that there is no testable scientific basis to support the claims made.

Let me clear the air about YOUR ways, nvr. Even if you were to have a desire to understand, you are not in a position to do so.

I have no idea what this has to do with the topic: "It appears that this stuff has no relation to healing by the priesthood (power of God)." As I have asked before, and you failed to respond, please enlighten me as to how "healing by the priesthood (power of God)" SCIENTIFICALLY WORKS. You haven't answered, because you can't--and nor does any other person (outside of energy healers) have much of ANY IDEA how it even begins to work.

"there is no testable scientific basis to support the claims made"--lots, that has been given to you, and you can't receive it. You have been led to water many times, but refuse to drink. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show healings occurring. You are like the people who listen to the missionaries, feel the Spirit so strongly they are moved to tears/ inability to speak/ wonder and amazement/ whatever, then come up with lame excuses the next day as to why they need to cancel meeting with the missionaries again.

But don't worry, if it's your mission and your time, hopefully you will get it one day, as all the other con-energy healing supporters. :ymhug:

[bethany]

I believe that every soul has the right to act in God's name and do good works. Every person is a child of God. Every person can choose to heal and be healed. It is in EVERYONE. The Kingdom of God IS IN YOU. Everyone. There are no children of any other being who are denied the right to heal or be healed.

[nvr]

I don't mean to dissuade any of you current energy work practitioners from what you're doing. I just wanted to clear the air about this topic. To summarize, It appears that this stuff has no relation to healing by the priesthood (power of God) and that there is no testable scientific basis to support the claims made.

Let me clear the air about YOUR ways, nvr. Even if you were to have a desire to understand, you are not in a position to do so.

I have no idea what this has to do with the topic: "It appears that this stuff has no relation to healing by the priesthood (power of God)." As I have asked before, and you failed to respond, please enlighten me as to how "healing by the priesthood (power of God)" SCIENTIFICALLY WORKS. You haven't answered, because you can't--and nor does any other person (outside of energy healers) have much of ANY IDEA how it even begins to work.

"there is no testable scientific basis to support the claims made"--lots, that has been given to you, and you can't receive it. You have been led to water many times, but refuse to drink. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show healings occurring. You are like the people who listen to the missionaries, feel the Spirit so strongly they are moved to tears/ inability to speak/ wonder and amazement/ whatever, then come up with lame excuses the next day as to why they need to cancel meeting with the missionaries again.

But don't worry, if it's your mission and your time, hopefully you will get it one day, as all the other con-energy healing supporters. :ymhug:

OK, I'm just trying to understand and by questioning, open this topic up to others and hopefully uncover what it's all about. So I think you're saying that it is using God's power, but without having to involve God. And that since God works using his own laws, any person can use this tool, since it is just science after all. And so far it is too new or controversial to get mainstream-level treatment by scientific community. If this is the case, I could see why people might be drawn to this. I'm not really an early adopter of these types of esoteric things and so I will hold out until it receives some class-A scientific attention.

[JohnnyL]

So by lumping all Christianity together I can prove you guilty of the Spanish Inquisition & countless other acts & beliefs.

If someone doing energy chooses to wander into dark stuff, that is their individual choice and they should be weighed on their own merits. If a bishop molests someone you'd be the first to scream that it does not represent the church's intentions. You'd want that separated post haste. And I've known SP's & bishops who've done so. It's called separating wheat & tares & it permeates everything in life.

Exactly. IIRC, hardly any anti-EH person here knows what type of energy healing they are talking about, and who they are talking about. "This woman," "did something," etc. Last time there were very few/ none that could explain what type of EH they were talking about, and who it was.

Others seem to have personal experience that remind me of this: "I used electricity, and I got shocked->it's of the devil." "I drove a car, and crashed and got hurt->it's of the devil." etc.

[JohnnyL]

I don't mean to dissuade any of you current energy work practitioners from what you're doing. I just wanted to clear the air about this topic. To summarize, It appears that this stuff has no relation to healing by the priesthood (power of God) and that there is no testable scientific basis to support the claims made.

Let me clear the air about YOUR ways, nvr. Even if you were to have a desire to understand, you are not in a position to do so.

I have no idea what this has to do with the topic: "It appears that this stuff has no relation to healing by the priesthood (power of God)." As I have asked before, and you failed to respond, please enlighten me as to how "healing by the priesthood (power of God)" SCIENTIFICALLY WORKS. You haven't answered, because you can't--and nor does any other person (outside of energy healers) have much of ANY IDEA how it even begins to work.

"there is no testable scientific basis to support the claims made"--lots, that has been given to you, and you can't receive it. You have been led to water many times, but refuse to drink. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show healings occurring. You are like the people who listen to the missionaries, feel the Spirit so strongly they are moved to tears/ inability to speak/ wonder and amazement/ whatever, then come up with lame excuses the next day as to why they need to cancel meeting with the missionaries again.

But don't worry, if it's your mission and your time, hopefully you will get it one day, as all the other con-energy healing supporters. :ymhug:

OK, I'm just trying to understand and by questioning, open this topic up to others and hopefully uncover what it's all about. So I think you're saying that it is using God's power, but without having to involve God. And that since God works using his own laws, any person can use this tool, since it is just science after all. And so far it is too new or controversial to get mainstream-level treatment by scientific community. If this is the case, I could see why people might be drawn to this. I'm not really an early adopter of these types of esoteric things and so I will hold out until it receives some class-A scientific attention.

What is God's power? Electricity, gas, solar, nuclear? It's all power. Of course God created it all, so to say, but I guess most people would count it as natural, right? It's there to be used. What about "quantum entanglement" type of stuff? Experiments show it's there--William Tiller Foundation, Gregg Braden, etc. Many healers can heal people across the world, possibly on the phone or chat, or without.

You are somewhat correct. Huna has been around for a while, and some other things, too, but in general, EH and muscle testing is newer for most. It will likely never get proper MS treatment from the news, science, etc. It's much more of a threat than chiropractors and D.O.'s (research that for some fun antics the AMA has been pulling for years). There was hard scientific evidence/ proof of meridians years ago, like the Chinese knew thousands of years ago--did you catch it on TV?

If you want to know what it's about and different kinds, go to youtube and watch many videos of actual healings and weird happenings, then come back and ask questions--two things you haven't really ever done. There are plenty there. Search for: Chinese Energetics, EFT, BodyTalk, qi / chi, Marco Paret, Yuen Method, etc.

[JohnnyL]

If you want to know what it's about and different kinds, go to youtube and watch many videos of actual healings and weird happenings, then come back and ask questions--two things you haven't really ever done. There are plenty there. Search for: Chinese Energetics, EFT, BodyTalk, qi / chi, Marco Paret, Yuen Method, etc.

So, has anyone done it yet?

[Yahtzee]

you know, I forgot about EFT (I am going to assume you meant emotional freedom technique-if not, disregard this). That is the only one I would recommend that I have personally tried, but I guess I don't think of it as "energy work". I have had consistent success with it, no weird feelings while doing it, and it's free to learn on youtube. It's mostly positive affirmations (with funky head tapping). It reminds me more of the techniques my therapist taught me than anything else.

[JohnnyL]

you know, I forgot about EFT (I am going to assume you meant emotional freedom technique-if not, disregard this). That is the only one I would recommend that I have personally tried, but I guess I don't think of it as "energy work". I have had consistent success with it, no weird feelings while doing it, and it's free to learn on youtube. It's mostly positive affirmations (with funky head tapping). It reminds me more of the techniques my therapist taught me than anything else.

Sorry, EFT is definitely energy work. ;)

It works quite well on many/ most things. I've performed many miracles with it. (Yes, me. As a surgeon would say, I've performed many miraculous surgeries.)

And the great majority of the time, the weird feelings, as has been suggested, are from our disbelief, surprise, shock, etc.--not Satan (though few can distinguish at that level).

[nvr]

One question - could you teach a robot to do energy work? Assuming it was human-like with mechanical arms and hands, and had, maybe a radio signal generator to record and then mimic or replicate whatever is the factor behind energy healing. Is this feasible? Why or why not?

[Yahtzee]

you know, I forgot about EFT (I am going to assume you meant emotional freedom technique-if not, disregard this). That is the only one I would recommend that I have personally tried, but I guess I don't think of it as "energy work". I have had consistent success with it, no weird feelings while doing it, and it's free to learn on youtube. It's mostly positive affirmations (with funky head tapping). It reminds me more of the techniques my therapist taught me than anything else.

Sorry, EFT is definitely energy work. ;)

It works quite well on many/ most things. I've performed many miracles with it. (Yes, me. As a surgeon would say, I've performed many miraculous surgeries.)

And the great majority of the time, the weird feelings, as has been suggested, are from our disbelief, surprise, shock, etc.--not Satan (though few can distinguish at that level).

See, someone says energy work and I think reiki or kinergetics, but tomato tomahto I suppose.
I disagree about the weird feeling. I grew up on this stuff so there's no surprise, shock, etc. As I've drawn closer to the Lord in my adult life though I started getting strong "weird" feelings from the Spirit that has led me away from using most of it. That is MY experience. I am not saying that means Satan controls anyone who uses it.
I guess my posts here are meant to say I don't think it's all inherently good or inherently evil. I think it's like public education. There's some really great teachers out there, but most of them don't really know what they're doing or have an agenda. Certification means little in either field and you must exercise extreme caution with both.

[JohnnyL]

you know, I forgot about EFT (I am going to assume you meant emotional freedom technique-if not, disregard this). That is the only one I would recommend that I have personally tried, but I guess I don't think of it as "energy work". I have had consistent success with it, no weird feelings while doing it, and it's free to learn on youtube. It's mostly positive affirmations (with funky head tapping). It reminds me more of the techniques my therapist taught me than anything else.

Sorry, EFT is definitely energy work. ;)

It works quite well on many/ most things. I've performed many miracles with it. (Yes, me. As a surgeon would say, I've performed many miraculous surgeries.)

And the great majority of the time, the weird feelings, as has been suggested, are from our disbelief, surprise, shock, etc.--not Satan (though few can distinguish at that level).

See, someone says energy work and I think reiki or kinergetics, but tomato tomahto I suppose.
I disagree about the weird feeling. I grew up on this stuff so there's no surprise, shock, etc. As I've drawn closer to the Lord in my adult life though I started getting strong "weird" feelings from the Spirit that has led me away from using most of it. That is MY experience. I am not saying that means Satan controls anyone who uses it.
I guess my posts here are meant to say I don't think it's all inherently good or inherently evil. I think it's like public education. There's some really great teachers out there, but most of them don't really know what they're doing or have an agenda. Certification means little in either field and you must exercise extreme caution with both.

Yeah, the fact that anti-EH have no clue what there is and what it encompasses, is part of the discussion many can't/ don't want to understand. To the anti-EH'ers, it's all from Satan. But as you insinuated, there are many different forms with different aspects.

I have no problem with some people being led to it, and others not.

I agree with you on the people, personal agendas, and certification.

[JohnnyL]

One question - could you teach a robot to do energy work? Assuming it was human-like with mechanical arms and hands, and had, maybe a radio signal generator to record and then mimic or replicate whatever is the factor behind energy healing. Is this feasible? Why or why not?

Experiment, and report back!

[David Cassani]

This work of energy healing is in the scriptures. It is called listen to our heart,...love God with all areas of our being. See my website. Please add to it. Listening to the body is simple and can be kept simple. I believe this work is about our living constitution within. The Book of Mormon is a message that that gospel can be simple. Man kind makes it complicated often for gain. Could we be missing the simple of the gospel. Energy healing can be a very natural and simple process guided by the spirit and those on the other side. I feel it is time to get this word out. A later Day David. Please see what has come to me since the year 2000.
see http://www.simplelivingcenters.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bethany]

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2 ... d-topstory

love that magnet therapy...

[nvr]

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2 ... d-topstory

love that magnet therapy...

That story at least tries to describe some mechanism of action, though I'd be wary of inducing currents in the brain. People were also very enthusiastic about lobotomies (destroying brain tissue with metal rod) and electro-shock therapy (inducing seizures with direct electric current). This is using electromagnets to induce currents at specific frequencies to 'sync up' one part of the brain that's lagging below the frequency of another part of the brain. It gets results, they say, but what will be the side effects? Are diet, exercise, meditation and prayer other ways in which to help get brainwaves in sync and at a desired rate? If energy healing offers any benefit, I'm guessing it probably has to do with the act of having calming words spoken to you i.e. 'breath slowly, visualize energy flowing down through the body, releasing bad experience' etc. I think if anything it is simply providing the same effect that meditation, or talking calmly with someone has, which is to lower brainwaves from a higher frequency 14hz or higher, which can be associated with an anxious state, down to 8-12 hz or below which coincides with a more relaxed state.

[bethany]

That is a very good summary of energy healing. Recognize that there was a traumatic experience & address it. Rewrite it. Simply acknowledge how it affected you, claim the higher road (emotion) and release it. You can breathe it out, visualize it out, talk it out.... whatever works for you. Claim the positive emotion, tell yourself that it was just an experience and don’t allow it to create anxiety or other distressing conditions. That’s all it is. Talk to the body. We create blocks all the time by our reactions to events in our lives.

I think if I suffered from ptsd I’d be very willing to try the shock therapy in an effort to get my life back. I recently heard of a very positive experience where someone suffering severe mental instability and was able to reclaim their sanity. They didn’t even remember their bizarre antics afterward.