Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Alternative/natural solution-based discussions of topics like health, medicine, science, food, etc.
CharlesIngalls
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Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by CharlesIngalls »

Bringing this here from another thread. Please don't just say, "It's of the devil and you're going to Hell." If so, please read the bit in red below. I really want do a proper analysis like people who have rational thought and critical thinking skills. I will add the first comment from another member from the other thread.

Let me first state that A: I don't do it but my wife does a bit and B: I am open to the idea that the Gospel as taught by The Church teaches us only the basics of what we must do to be exalted and that there are many many truths in this world that we can learn outside of the Gospel/Church.

I haven't read the book on EH so I can only go on what my wife has told me. We have discussed whether or not it is of God or not with my input being mostly how she can know for herself if it is or not. I don't think I should be telling others if it is or not.

Tangent: I don't want to tell others if JR, Hector or Spencer are right or not. Not my place and each person needs to learn on their own if it is deception or not. I have read the books and if I recall correctly, they didn't either. I appreciate people who say, "Go find out and decide for yourself." All of those who demonize these people have no authority from the Church to tell anyone else what is doctrine and what is not. In some respects, it could be considered that they are taking upon themselves the very same authority that they condemn in JR, HS and Spencer.


There have been so many people inspired to create/invent/discover facts about this world that that essentially have no relevance to the Gospel for example, Newtons Laws of Physics. We can always be learning new things and then, new things about the new things. Newton said that what goes up must come down (just making a point, no need to tell me, "He didn't say that, he said 'Blah blah blah'"). And those laws are still in effect today. Orville and Wilber Wright didn't say Newton was wrong, they just discovered how to use the laws of air pressure to make an airplane fly, or in other words, they learned new information which enabled them to do what was once thought impossible. Doctors have learned new ways to heal. does that make a Priesthood blessing untrue or vice versa? No, they are complimentary.

That being said, I am open to the possibility that there is truth in EH. Maybe some allow distortions by Satan in the way it is being used but maybe it is just rudimentary in methodology. Maybe both. The Wright Brothers used "wing warping" to control an aircraft but flaps and ailerons worked much better. The engine was also laughable by today's standards.

My point is that until The Bretheren tell us it is not good, I am willing to be open minded.

CharlesIngalls
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Posts: 73

Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by CharlesIngalls »

Deleted this as I don't think it was helpful.
Last edited by CharlesIngalls on July 12th, 2016, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mirkwood
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by mirkwood »

http://www.toliftandinspire.com/2016/01 ... /#more-648" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nvr
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by nvr »

There's no definable mechanism of action. At least no one seems willing to discuss it. I've learned about the concept as well aso I could muster and it is clear that proponents don't understand the scientific method or else do but want to call this a faith-based healing. These people seem to not be willing to describe how energy healing would contrast or mesh with healing by the power of God through prayers of faith and priesthood blessings. Others say it is not based on faith but scientifically-based, however are unable to describe the mechanism of action. One thing is in common, every one seems to have some angle to make money off of gullible people using the energy healing concept, from Carol Tuttle to Julie Rowe. It's really the perfect product- no inventory to purchase and keep track of and customers treat it with religious -like seriousness and probably are willing to pay accordingly.

CharlesIngalls
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Posts: 73

Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by CharlesIngalls »

OK, First thing I want to do is separate the "spiritual" from the "scientific." I believe that Heavenly Father does not use magic. There is a scientific explanation for everything He does. He just knows a whole lot more science than we do. Much like the Wright Bros. learned a more advanced science, so has Heavenly Father. An example is wireless communication. I have a vision in my minds eye of mortals talking about how great WiFi is and Heavenly Father standing above thinking, "You are just barely scratching the surface of your ability to communicate."

Can we find a part of this which does not have a direct spiritual aspect? For example, we go to a doctor and that doctor uses science to determine that we have cancer. THEN we go to the Lord in prayer and supplication. I think if there was some part of EH/MT that worked that way, it would be acceptable. Is Heavenly Father standing above us thinking (regarding some part of EH/MT), "They are just barely beginning to scratch the surface of how they can learn from their own bodies, but they need to figure out the right way to do it."

Throughout history, people have dismissed new science and this may be a place for us to start that could affect the veracity of muscle testing.

DNA memories or Malachi 4:5 ¶Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

http://discovermagazine.com/2013/may/13 ... your-genes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nvr
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by nvr »

More likely to me is that energy healing and other similar stuff is simply a money making scheme like so many other schemes before it, which plays off of a placebo effect, if anything. Since the background workings of the practice are so vague, it can fit into any ones own interpretation for how it works, be it by a divine power or some yet-understood practical means. While God does use his own laws to do things, i don't think he means to have the inner workings of beneficial technologies remain known to only a few and obfuscated to all else. . The power of electricity or a combustion engine is out there and can be used by good or bad folks. You can study these technologies and set up tests and write papers of experiments that other people can replicate.
But you cannot toy with divine intervention (replicate the prayer used to move a mountain, or capture the power used to raise the fees or heal the sick) and bottle it up to sell. God steps in and provides help to heal etc if he wills it after we have asked in faith and done everything we can do in our own power . If he wants us to know and useven a new scientific concept, he'd put it into the minds of an honest researcher like I think he did with the Wright Bros. They documented the principles of flight and filed patents and built or licenced their ideas for the practical use of others. They didn't just charge people for rides in their plane and claim it was by miraculous power of God.
If energy healing is science based, where's the patents, scientifically reproducible studies etc that would normally follow? Is it's faith based, God does not sell his services in this way.

braingrunt
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by braingrunt »

My wife is into energy healing and I'm not very comfortable with it.

@nvr re: "no definable mechanism"
What I've heard about muscle testing is this: it relies on subconscious knowledge.

It starts like this: if you are sick, your subconscious knows why and knows how to fix it. I think this might be true. For example, if my liver is troubled, well it's hooked to my brain and I've little doubt that some part of my brain is detecting this, and because it's got lots of info throughout my body dayin dayout, is able to theorize about it. Bottom line is that I truly believe that parts of my brain do know lots more than I can consciously and usefully use.

But then it goes on to this: your subconscious knows so d*** much that it can read someone else's mind from their bioelectric field (or something, perhaps accessing knowledge their spirit has) from some ridiculous distance away. This seriously strains at my credibility and/or starts to get me worrying about unholy explanation.

But, bottom line is this: I have never seen any good come of it, except perhaps in the extreme short term. And I'm about certain it's placebo. All in all, my wife is not one sliver healthier than when she started it a few years ago. Nor more functional. But as my priesthood doesn't work any better, how can I complain?

PS, the theory of how you access the subconscious knowledge via muscle testing, is that stating a truth is easy for the mind and produces strength in the muscles, whereas stating a falsehood, even one you only know subconsciously, is more difficult and produces weakness. The effect is not perfectly uniform, such that with practice and certain techniques, you can supposedly test yourself. The most basic muscle test which they recommend for beginners, is to stand with your eyes closed. State something. For most people, a truth will tend to lean you forward and a false will tend to lean you back. In my very limited tryout of this, it seemed like it was actually true for me; but I only tested things I knew consciously and did not attempt to access and test "unconscious knowledge".

CharlesIngalls
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by CharlesIngalls »

I agree that using any of this in direct association with Christ and money is not good at all. People have been doing that sort of thing for thousands of years and it is, to me at least, easy to spot.

These links are to the National Institutes of Health website and I'm not exactly sure if I am reading it correctly as it appears to be only a summary of the studies. The first seems to state that in one test group, muscle testing was 90% effective in determining allergies. It was a small group but 90% is as good as a doctor could hope for. The other says there have been many studies that demonstrate effectiveness but more work needs to be done.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10069623" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The pilot study attempted to determine whether subjective muscle testing employed by Applied Kinesiology practitioners, prospectively determine those individuals with specific hyperallergenic responses. Seventeen subjects were found positive on Applied Kinesiology (A.K.) muscle testing screening procedures indicating food hypersensitivity (allergy) reactions. Each subject showed muscle weakening (inhibition) reactions to oral provocative testing of one or two foods for a total of 21 positive food reactions. Tests for a hypersensitivity reaction of the serum were performed using both a radio-allergosorbent test (RAST) and immune complex test for IgE and IgG against all 21 of the foods that tested positive with A.K. muscle screening procedures. These serum tests confirmed 19 of the 21 food allergies (90.5%) suspected based on the applied kinesiology screening procedures. This pilot study offers a basis to examine further a means by which to predict the clinical utility of a given substance for a given patient, based on the patterns of neuromuscular response elicited from the patient, representing a conceptual expansion of the standard neurological examination process.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17341308" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
INTRODUCTION:
A body of basic science and clinical research has been generated on the manual muscle test (MMT) since its first peer-reviewed publication in 1915. The aim of this report is to provide an historical overview, literature review, description, synthesis and critique of the reliability and validity of MMT in the evaluation of the musculoskeletal and nervous systems.
METHODS:
Online resources were searched including Pubmed and CINAHL (each from inception to June 2006). The search terms manual muscle testing or manual muscle test were used. Relevant peer-reviewed studies, commentaries, and reviews were selected. The two reviewers assessed data quality independently, with selection standards based on predefined methodologic criteria. Studies of MMT were categorized by research content type: inter- and intraexaminer reliability studies, and construct, content, concurrent and predictive validity studies. Each study was reviewed in terms of its quality and contribution to knowledge regarding MMT, and its findings presented.
RESULTS:
More than 100 studies related to MMT and the applied kinesiology chiropractic technique (AK) that employs MMT in its methodology were reviewed, including studies on the clinical efficacy of MMT in the diagnosis of patients with symptomatology. With regard to analysis there is evidence for good reliability and validity in the use of MMT for patients with neuromusculoskeletal dysfunction. The observational cohort studies demonstrated good external and internal validity, and the 12 randomized controlled trials (RCTs) that were reviewed show that MMT findings were not dependent upon examiner bias.
CONCLUSION:
The MMT employed by chiropractors, physical therapists, and neurologists was shown to be a clinically useful tool, but its ultimate scientific validation and application requires testing that employs sophisticated research models in the areas of neurophysiology, biomechanics, RCTs, and statistical analysis.

CharlesIngalls
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by CharlesIngalls »


I think this sums up all that is wrong with EH/MT and why so many people have a negative opinion of it. Today, doctors actually use leeches to bleed people so I think the application is an important factor to consider. If there is an evil side to this, there must be a positive side as there must be opposition in all things.

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mirkwood
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by mirkwood »

CharlesIngalls wrote:
If there is an evil side to this, there must be a positive side as there must be opposition in all things.

The opposite of energy healing is using the priesthood.

Mcox
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Posts: 309

Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by Mcox »

Can you answer, where the answers are coming from in muscle testing?
Have you or any one who is involved with energy healing, cast out spirits? I know of so many accounts of almost daily casting out of evil spirits. Those involved say it's because they are becoming more spiritual. I think it is because occult methods are being used and that invites spirits to manifest.
Priestcraft is the counterfeit to priesthood. Priesthood is the power of God on earth. Everything done by God is done with priesthood power. All else is not of God. There is no neutral energy. It is either claimed by God or it is counter claimed by Satan. When you deal with spiritual powers, you must do so by the power of God I.e. Priesthood.
Is your wife, praying and asking for Christ to be a part of her healing?
I would kindly suggest that you research as much as possible. Here are some talks by General authorities. Read them with energy healing in mind;
Elder Oaks "Two Lines of Communication"
President Uchtdorf "The Way of a Disciple"
Elder Cook "Looking Beyond the Mark"
Elder Oaks " Our Strengths Can Become our Downfall"
The institute manuals are full of great information too. Also if you have a copy of Mormon Doctrine I would suggest some topics to read. Let me know if you do?

Mcox
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by Mcox »

braingrunt wrote:My wife is into energy healing and I'm not very comfortable with it.

@nvr re: "no definable mechanism"
What I've heard about muscle testing is this: it relies on subconscious knowledge.

It starts like this: if you are sick, your subconscious knows why and knows how to fix it. I think this might be true. For example, if my liver is troubled, well it's hooked to my brain and I've little doubt that some part of my brain is detecting this, and because it's got lots of info throughout my body dayin dayout, is able to theorize about it. Bottom line is that I truly believe that parts of my brain do know lots more than I can consciously and usefully use.

But then it goes on to this: your subconscious knows so d*** much that it can read someone else's mind from their bioelectric field (or something, perhaps accessing knowledge their spirit has) from some ridiculous distance away. This seriously strains at my credibility and/or starts to get me worrying about unholy explanation.

But, bottom line is this: I have never seen any good come of it, except perhaps in the extreme short term. And I'm about certain it's placebo. All in all, my wife is not one sliver healthier than when she started it a few years ago. Nor more functional. But as my priesthood doesn't work any better, how can I complain?

PS, the theory of how you access the subconscious knowledge via muscle testing, is that stating a truth is easy for the mind and produces strength in the muscles, whereas stating a falsehood, even one you only know subconsciously, is more difficult and produces weakness. The effect is not perfectly uniform, such that with practice and certain techniques, you can supposedly test yourself. The most basic muscle test which they recommend for beginners, is to stand with your eyes closed. State something. For most people, a truth will tend to lean you forward and a false will tend to lean you back. In my very limited tryout of this, it seemed like it was actually true for me; but I only tested things I knew consciously and did not attempt to access and test "unconscious knowledge".
All true healing takes place in the conscious. Read the article that Mirkwood posted. Muscle testing takes the place of the Holy Ghost in my opinion. I also know that many who become involved in energy become more extreme as time goes by. I know of several woman who cannot function without muscle testing for everything, they have experienced full blown psychosis.
Read President Nelsons Preisthood talk given this past general conference. Energy healing is taking off in part, because we simply do not excersize fully the power of the priesthood. This must be remedied.

nvr
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by nvr »

From what I've learned recently, muscle testing and energy healing are two totally unrelated things. I had not heard of muscle testing before, but it seems there's some esoteric-type applications some of these gurus are probably trying to peddle. I've heard of some practical muscle testing studies from a while ago that seemed to hold water. In these cases, it could be a plausible measurement tool for certain mind-body effects ie, being not able to hold up as much weight when listening to a lie vs a fact. I could see how your mind could get slightly preoccupied when processing a discrepancy and you lose focus on holding up a weight. It sounds like more of an interesting effect rather than something you could hang your hat on and use for interview suspects.

There's at least been a some legit-sounding studies that deal with muscle strength vs outside factors (not the case with energy healing). I've read about John Diamond's studies where people listening to music with an anapestic beat (common in hard rock / rap) caused them to lose the ability to hold up a given amount of weight vs no music / or classical music. This jives with what I've heard about the effects of the back beat (off beat) in modern music which induces movement in people listening to it. The natural musical structure is for the emphasis to happen on the beat - when it is on the off beat, people try to make up for it by moving (swaying) to the (missing) down beat. I think they found that playing this beat repetitively (no variations on the theme like classical music) put a strain on the mind as the brain had to deal with rectifying the continual unexpected back beat and actually put the person into a more suggestible state. Anyways, it seems these types of inputs would have a legitimate physiological effect on the body and muscles.

Energy healing, however, which includes things like waving a wands with an eye carved into the end around a person's head, in my mind lacks any legitimacy.
Last edited by nvr on July 13th, 2016, 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mcox
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by Mcox »

nvr wrote:From what I've learned recently, muscle testing and energy healing are two totally unrelated things. I'm not sure why they were lumped together here. Muscle testing actually I think could be a plausible measurement tool for certain mind-body effects ie, being not able to hold up as much weight when listening to a lie vs a fact. I could see how your mind could get slightly preoccupied when processing a discrepancy and you lose focus on holding up a weight.
There's been other actual studies that deal with muscle strength vs outside factors (not the case with energy healing). I've read about John Diamond's studies where people listening to music with an anapestic beat caused them to lose the ability to hold up a given amount of weight vs no music / or classical music. This jives with the effects of the back beat (off beat) in modern music which induces movement in people listening to it. The natural musical structure is for the emphasis to happen on the beat - when it is on the off beat, people try to make up for it by moving (swaying) to the (missing) down beat. It was found that playing this beat repetitively (no variations on the theme like classical music) puts a strain on the mind as the brain has to deal with rectifying the continual unexpected back beat and actually puts the person into a more suggestible state. Anyways, it seems these types of inputs would have a legitimate physiological effect on the body and muscles.

Energy healing, however, which includes things like waving a wands with an eye carved into the end around a person's head, in my mind lacks any legitimacy.

Muscle testing is used to ask yes or no questions. Where are the answers coming from? It is used in energy healing to determine the negative emotions that need to be released. It's no different then a ouji board in my opinion.

nvr
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by nvr »

Ok, I think the muscle testing studies I had read about came from a different field that was grounded in actual studies etc. Sounds like the energy healing gurus have latched on to the name to add to their repertoire as a time filler for sessions.

bethany
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by bethany »

Every moment of every day people are bombarded by energy. From the movies you watch, the propaganda on tv and radio, the music you listen to, the food you eat. All of it programs your emotions, your beliefs, your reactions, etc. Some energy healers recognize this and remove it and set boundaries to counter the infiltrations to their being. You own your body and emotions and you are perfectly capable of verbalizing your own defense.

Every one of you encounter negative energy programmers every day. Multiple times a day. Everyone of them gets their dig in which grows and grows.

JohnnyL
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by JohnnyL »

Mcox wrote:All true healing takes place in the conscious. Except for Alma, Lamoni, his father, and so many more who were all UNconscious when their healings took place. ;)

JohnnyL
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by JohnnyL »

Mcox wrote:Can you answer, where the answers are coming from in muscle testing?
Have you or any one who is involved with energy healing, cast out spirits? I know of so many accounts of almost daily casting out of evil spirits. Those involved say it's because they are becoming more spiritual. I think it is because occult methods are being used and that invites spirits to manifest.
Priestcraft is the counterfeit to priesthood. Priesthood is the power of God on earth. Everything done by God is done with priesthood power. All else is not of God. There is no neutral energy. It is either claimed by God or it is counter claimed by Satan. When you deal with spiritual powers, you must do so by the power of God I.e. Priesthood.
Like some others on this board (who probably won't bother to respond to the umpeemth thread where many like to voice their usually ignorant opinions of EH), I have been doing forms of EH for years now.

No, it's not of the devil. Yes, it can be used wrong. Yes, humans can misuse, abuse, etc. it, just like the AMA(/ ADA/ etc.) has been and still does with many of its theories and procedures (chemo is good for killing cancer, fluoride is good for your teeth, immunizations make you immune to a disease, etc.). Just like a scalpel, electricity, a gun, etc., it is a tool that depends on a human to use it.

I can hardly think of any scientific theory that was understood BEFORE it was observed--nvr, can you? Nor do I know of serious claims that we fully understand any scientific theory, even the ones that have been around for a while. As a matter of fact, I remember a whole bunch of steps in theories about basic atomic structure, and it is still unknown. We can observe effects, and draw conclusions about them, but it's not like we really know, right?

And experiments and doing back it up nicely. For all you "scientists" out there, you know the saying: the proof is in the pudding.

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Yahtzee
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by Yahtzee »

Oooh, my guest (oops that should say first) controversial topic post. How exciting!
So my mom and I have a friend who is pretty typical LDS and practices a lot of different kinds of energy work. I went to her for numerous issues 17 or so years ago and she really helped. I took some classes from her and became certified in three different modalities, but could never quite "get it right". I also took classes from other people and did NOT like the vibe I got from them. It went from being something cool and helpful to something weird and not quite right.
I don't think it's "evil" necessarily, I think it depends on the practitioner. My friend doesn't stray into things like past lives or astral projection. She does muscle tests to see if you need a priesthood blessing and doesn't try to replace that. But I've been to other people who do and it made me feel very dark.
The thing is, even though I had great experiences with my friend, I would never recommend energy work. She's the only person I've felt good about going to. I never had success with physical ailments but always did with psychological ones. I found it just as effective as cognitive behavioral therapy (Which is covered by my insurance). What that tells me is that my friend is a very intuitive person who is able to help you figure out what exactly is bothering you. But she couldn't cure my dad's cancer or any of my chronic diseases. I think there might be something to muscle testing still...I haven't decided yet.
Ultimately I'm leery of anything that costs a lot of money and sounds to good to be true.
(Edited for autocorrect :-w )

CharlesIngalls
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by CharlesIngalls »

Mcox wrote:
nvr wrote:From what I've learned recently, muscle testing and energy healing are two totally unrelated things. I'm not sure why they were lumped together here. Muscle testing actually I think could be a plausible measurement tool for certain mind-body effects ie, being not able to hold up as much weight when listening to a lie vs a fact. I could see how your mind could get slightly preoccupied when processing a discrepancy and you lose focus on holding up a weight.
There's been other actual studies that deal with muscle strength vs outside factors (not the case with energy healing). I've read about John Diamond's studies where people listening to music with an anapestic beat caused them to lose the ability to hold up a given amount of weight vs no music / or classical music. This jives with the effects of the back beat (off beat) in modern music which induces movement in people listening to it. The natural musical structure is for the emphasis to happen on the beat - when it is on the off beat, people try to make up for it by moving (swaying) to the (missing) down beat. It was found that playing this beat repetitively (no variations on the theme like classical music) puts a strain on the mind as the brain has to deal with rectifying the continual unexpected back beat and actually puts the person into a more suggestible state. Anyways, it seems these types of inputs would have a legitimate physiological effect on the body and muscles.

Energy healing, however, which includes things like waving a wands with an eye carved into the end around a person's head, in my mind lacks any legitimacy.

Muscle testing is used to ask yes or no questions. Where are the answers coming from? It is used in energy healing to determine the negative emotions that need to be released. It's no different then a ouji board in my opinion.
My earlier post with a link to an article about how our DNA changes is one idea about where the answers come from.

Also, for many years people laughed at those who used magnets for healing. Sometimes I still do but once somebody figured out the MRI, it became a very useful tool.

nvr
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by nvr »

The magnets in MRI are used for imaging and diagnosing, not for any type of healing. It's not that people are outright mocking energy healing methods, it's that many are exasperated that there's not even any hypothesis given for how it could work. This would drive subsequent experiments to verify. Why are supporters hesitant to apply scientific method to this if it had any promise?

bethany
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by bethany »

nvr wrote:There's no definable mechanism of action. At least no one seems willing to discuss it. I've learned about the concept as well aso I could muster and it is clear that proponents don't understand the scientific method or else do but want to call this a faith-based healing. These people seem to not be willing to describe how energy healing would contrast or mesh with healing by the power of God through prayers of faith and priesthood blessings. Others say it is not based on faith but scientifically-based, however are unable to describe the mechanism of action. One thing is in common, every one seems to have some angle to make money off of gullible people using the energy healing concept, from Carol Tuttle to Julie Rowe. It's really the perfect product- no inventory to purchase and keep track of and customers treat it with religious -like seriousness and probably are willing to pay accordingly.
Sounds a lot like Mormonism. Not sure exactly how a rock translates gold plates that are 'hidden' & not plainly set out in a museum. But if you believe it, there has been a continuous upward evolution of how much money will bring you into the celestial kingdom along with evolving interpretations of how much & what constitutes an increase & so on and so forth.

What exactly are the mechanisms of a translating rock? Scientific? Mystical? Electronic? Magnetic? Supersonic? Nuclear? Metaphysical? Crystal energy? Digital? All of the above?

I've never heard an energy healer threaten anyone's standing with God or try to tell them they would be denied being with their family for all eternity.

bethany
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by bethany »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... l-fat.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I've posted it before... You can fork over $10,000 for a medical doctor to hook you up to magnet therapy for depression. Which has shown tremendous success. It's been going on for at least 10 years. Or buy emotion code for less than 20 or get it free in digital and use a$1 magnet that's already hanging on your fridge.

It's called.... YOUR WORDS HAVE POWER! If you say you are depressed, or grew up hearing ppl around you say they were depressed, you begin to believe it and be it. If you wake up and feel cruddy, but deny it and say, this is an amazing day filled with joy & I'm so happy for the opportunities that are coming!!! Before long, you will barely contain the wondrous things bombarding you. Oh wait! As a man speaketh/thinketh so is he.... (Yep, that's the mechanism. Your own Godhood/agency in action)

nvr
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by nvr »

bethany wrote:
nvr wrote:There's no definable mechanism of action. At least no one seems willing to discuss it. I've learned about the concept as well aso I could muster and it is clear that proponents don't understand the scientific method or else do but want to call this a faith-based healing. These people seem to not be willing to describe how energy healing would contrast or mesh with healing by the power of God through prayers of faith and priesthood blessings. Others say it is not based on faith but scientifically-based, however are unable to describe the mechanism of action. One thing is in common, every one seems to have some angle to make money off of gullible people using the energy healing concept, from Carol Tuttle to Julie Rowe. It's really the perfect product- no inventory to purchase and keep track of and customers treat it with religious -like seriousness and probably are willing to pay accordingly.
Sounds a lot like Mormonism. Not sure exactly how a rock translates gold plates that are 'hidden' & not plainly set out in a museum. But if you believe it, there has been a continuous upward evolution of how much money will bring you into the celestial kingdom along with evolving interpretations of how much & what constitutes an increase & so on and so forth.

What exactly are the mechanisms of a translating rock? Scientific? Mystical? Electronic? Magnetic? Supersonic? Nuclear? Metaphysical? Crystal energy? Digital? All of the above?

I've never heard an energy healer threaten anyone's standing with God or try to tell them they would be denied being with their family for all eternity.
The use of seer stone I believe was simply a focal point for faith. There was nothing special about the rock. Eventually, Joseph was able to receive revelation without it. As much as there are people, unfortunately, in leadership positions who overstep their boundaries and say things like you mention, I'd say to be just as cautious for people who will tell what you want to hear, as we've been warned about (Leviticus 19:31 etc).

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Rose Garden
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Re: Energy Healing or Muscle Testing Discussion...

Post by Rose Garden »

nvr wrote:The magnets in MRI are used for imaging and diagnosing, not for any type of healing. It's not that people are outright mocking energy healing methods, it's that many are exasperated that there's not even any hypothesis given for how it could work. This would drive subsequent experiments to verify. Why are supporters hesitant to apply scientific method to this if it had any promise?
There actually is more research than you might expect on energy healing type of stuff. I have a book called "The Source Field Investigations" that go over several experiments that have been done in this area.

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