Alberta Parents found Guilty of failing to provide the necessaries of life

[Sunain]

A packed Lethbridge, Alta., courtroom erupted with emotion on Tuesday afternoon, after two parents accused of letting their son die from bacterial meningitis were found guilty.

David Stephan, 32, and Collet Stephan, 36, were charged a year after their nearly 19-month-old son Ezekiel died in March 2012, under Section 215 of the Criminal Code which deals with "failing to provide the necessaries of life."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/m ... -1.3552941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A southern Alberta couple accused of allowing their meningitis-infected toddler to die four years ago tried home remedies such as olive leaf extract and whey protein rather than take him to a doctor, a Lethbridge jury heard Monday.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/j ... -1.3479460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-new ... cial-media" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://doctrinesoffaith.com/mormon-pare ... lds-death/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/toddle ... -medicine/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I understand why people are suspicious of pharmaceuticals and vaccinations these days and why people want to have alternative treatments but in a country like Canada where Health Care is universally available to all citizens, there is no excuse for a child to die of bacterial meningitis. A free visit to a clinic or their actual doctor followed by a blood test and then antibiotics would have saved this child. They could have at least had the condition properly diagnosed and I think that's why they jury found them guilty.

A lot of the media here in Canada is really making Mormons look like a cult because of these people's decision to not properly care for their child. It's bad enough that the fundamentalist polygamist issue here in BC has been in the news a lot lately, but now coupled with these actual members of the church in Alberta, it's proving to be a bad time for LDS PR here in Canada.

The church teaches the complete opposite to what these members did though. I've spent most of the day talking about this with my non-member friends and co-workers specifically stating that many of the news articles, user comments and reports coming up on the Internet are completely false in regards to the church teaching not to go to the doctor or to use alternative treatments. I told them about Elder Nelson being a former world renowned heart surgeon and have been linking them to this President Oak's talk.

God has given us modern day technology and medical science for our benefit. I am glad to live at a time when we have these advances in knowledge to help treat conditions people 150 years ago didn't have.

Latter-day Saints believe in applying the best available scientific knowledge and techniques. We use nutrition, exercise, and other practices to preserve health, and we enlist the help of healing practitioners, such as physicians and surgeons, to restore health.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g=eng&_r=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My question to all here, should these members also be excommunicated for their actions? I personally believe this is a form of child abuse. With the judgement today, they are now considered criminals. Plus the amount of negative attention they have brought to the church here across Canada might also play a roll. I can't think of many instances where an active member of the church has been criminally charged and there has been this much national media attention. Definitely don't want it to be a witch-hunt against these members who are obviously already devastated to lose a child but would it be considered part of the repentance process?

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official- ... hild-abuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disciplinary councils are not called to try civil or criminal cases. The decision of a civil court may help determine whether a Church disciplinary council should be convened. However, a civil court’s decision does not dictate the decision of a disciplinary council.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1990/09/a-ch ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dlbww]

My wife and I have been following this case closely because we have friends that know these people personally, some that have been in the courtroom. This is a complicated case which could have happened to anyone. What a slippery slope on the road to completely destroying our agency.

[butterfly]

Generally speaking, parents try to do their best for their children. I think losing a child is "punishment" enough. Why seek to bring more pain via excommunication? A parent who neglects a child typically doesn't take the time to use alternative treatments, which can be expensive and time consuming. This doesn't sound like neglect; it sounds like a tragedy.

[Sunain]

What a slippery slope on the road to completely destroying our agency.

This doesn't sound like neglect; it sounds like a tragedy.

You have to realize the 'Canadian' way of thinking. Health care is very important part of our culture the last couple generations and as such we have some of the highest standards of living and life spans in the world. If a child is sick for an extended period of time, you'd definitely take them to the doctor here. We don't have to be like other countries concerned about if insurance covers it. Our criminal code includes criminal negligence for children and the elderly and even for not reporting someone that is injured. A person that fails to get another person proper health care can be sentenced to jail for up to 5 years. Even if the parents did bring them to the doctor, if the child was at late stages of meningitis, the hospital and/or doctor would be obligated to report the issue to the police and child services and they would have basically been in this same situation.

Meningitis detection and prevention is taught as part of the schools curriculum as well. I remember learning about it in our required health/phys-ed course in the first year of high school. I'm sure the jury took that into consideration as well.

The crux of this case will be what they are sentenced to. I agree it is a tragedy that the child died and that the parents have to go through the grief of losing a child. But I do believe this was a preventable situation on the parents part by just going to a doctor. I see this as very similar issue that BYU is bringing up with certain Honor Code violations in rape cases; was the criminal situation avoidable by the choices made.

I know universal health care is a very foreign idea to many in the United States. Let me remind you that our universal health care system isn't like the mess the Obamacare is. Here in Canada, we are so used to it that we don't take a second thought of it anymore. It's a service we know is there if we need it and it's not an agency issue in the least. Many people here still treat themselves without going to the doctor but I think this case highlights that when our own personal treatments aren't working, it's best to seek professional help. I would say most Canadians agree with this verdict. I'm sure they will talk about this incident at church this weekend, I'm specifically interested in what my bishop thinks and would do in a situation like this.

[butterfly]

What a slippery slope on the road to completely destroying our agency.

This doesn't sound like neglect; it sounds like a tragedy.

You have to realize the 'Canadian' way of thinking. Health care is very important part of our culture the last couple generations and as such we have some of the highest standards of living and life spans in the world. If a child is sick for an extended period of time, you'd definitely take them to the doctor here. We don't have to be like other countries concerned about if insurance covers it. Our criminal code includes criminal negligence for children and the elderly and even for not reporting someone that is injured. A person that fails to get another person proper health care can be sentenced to jail for up to 5 years. I would say a large majority of Canadians agree with this verdict.

Meningitis detection and prevention is taught as part of the schools curriculum as well. I remember learning about it in our required health/phys-ed course in the first year of high school.

The crux of this case will be what they are sentenced to. I agree it is a tragedy that the child died and that the parents have to go through the grief of losing a child. But I do believe this was a preventable situation on the parents part by just going to a doctor. I see this as very similar issue that BYU is bringing up with certain Honor Code violations in rape cases; was the criminal situation avoidable by the choices made.

I see. I didn't know Canada's healthcare and education was so thorough. So do you feel that the doctors there can be trusted? There's no big pharma behind the scenes shaking hands with politicians?
Is going to an alternative treatment practitioner considered going to a "doctor"? I've noticed that if people see a chiropractor, midwife, herbalist, etc, it will be reported that they refused to see a doctor. This is misleading though; they were seeing the type of doctor they feel comfortable with. Idk the situation for this family, though.
So it sounds like you were a bit embarrassed that these people are members of the church?

[JohnnyL]

Sunain,

There is like the LeVoy Finicum situation--the mainstream media and govt are teaming up to slam this family. There's another whole side to this story that is purposefully being ignored, and seems to have a lot more truth to it.

(Important lesson: If the govt loses the first time on one thing, move to another country before they can beat you on another that will hurt you even more--like child services or the medical establishment...)

You can visit a few FB websites that tell that other side.

[Sunain]

I see. I didn't know Canada's healthcare and education was so thorough. So do you feel that the doctors there can be trusted? There's no big pharma behind the scenes shaking hands with politicians?

Doctor's here charge the provinces health care systems based on a visit. Depending on how much you make here and which province you live in, the healthcare costs are from free to a few hundred dollars a year and are part of the yearly federal/provincial taxes. I'm sure there might be a few doctors like that here but in general, I don't think it's been a big issue like it is in the United States.

I've never had an issue with my doctors. I've always trusted them and there really isn't a big pharma issue here like there is in the United States but that could change if Canada ratifies the TPP with the United States. One portion of that trade agreement states that we couldn't undercut the USA drug prices. Many Americans come to Canada or order their prescriptions online illegally/legally because of the current price discrepancies between the two countries. Prescriptions in general though aren't part of the Canadian health care system but some of the more expensive drugs are covered or partially covered, it just depends on the condition. I haven't had to get a prescription personally for a number of years, but I think I paid $4 for the dispensing fee and $1 for the drug at Costco Pharmacy. I distinctly remember the dispensing fee being more than the drug.

Is going to an alternative treatment practitioner considered going to a "doctor"? I've noticed that if people see a chiropractor, midwife, herbalist, etc, it will be reported that they refused to see a doctor. This is misleading though; they were seeing the type of doctor they feel comfortable with. Idk the situation for this family, though.

A chiropractor and a midwife are all regulated services here in Canada and are often referred to by an MD/GP after a consultation and a patient wishes to use their services.

So it sounds like you were a bit embarrassed that these people are members of the church?

Most definitely embarrassed because of the national attention this case received. I'm sure I'm not the only member of the church in Canada that feels like we're being targeted as a whole church rather than just a couples misguided decisions. Look at any of the articles online and comments including some of the ones I've linked above and people in Canada are getting the impression that Mormons think that personal health care is better than the universal healthcare system. Many people have to realize that one of the things Canadians pride themselves on is our healthcare system. It's up there with Hockey, Tim Hortons, ect as things that are uniquely Canadian. So, when an issue like this comes up and Canadians see a child dying because the parents wouldn't take them to the doctor, it's an outrage regardless of what home remedies they used.

Patients still had/have the right to refuse treatment here though. I'm not sure that applies to children that cannot make the decision for themselves though.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/makay ... -1.2829885" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sunain,

There is like the LeVoy Finicum situation--the mainstream media and govt are teaming up to slam this family. There's another whole side to this story that is purposefully being ignored, and seems to have a lot more truth to it.

(Important lesson: If the govt loses the first time on one thing, move to another country before they can beat you on another that will hurt you even more--like child services or the medical establishment...)

You can visit a few FB websites that tell that other side.

Oh definitely I think the government has a large vested interest in this case specifically to let Canadians know that refusing to use the healthcare system can be a crime. As I said above though, I don't think the government has an nefarious agenda in this case other than to warn and hopefully prevent similar instances from occurring in the future. They honestly want to help and when preventable incidents like this occur, they want to send a clear message to all the citizens of Canada that negligence isn't tolerated.

Canadians and the media had another incident this week as well with someone reporting children playing outside. Child services came in and grilled the parent and they now have a record despite doing nothing wrong. Personally that's even a bigger issue this week here but most Canadians here feel that what that parent did was fine and that the person reporting was in the wrong. This could lead to people calling child services on people they don't like and all sorts of issue could arise. I know I used to travel all over the place as a young kid. My parents wanted to know where I was going and when I would be back. These kids were in a fenced backyard in sight of their parent.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canad ... n-backyard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two incidents this week involving children and their health and safety and I think the Canadian public opinion got both right. Outraged at both incidents.

[dlbww]

Sunain,

There is like the LeVoy Finicum situation--the mainstream media and govt are teaming up to slam this family. There's another whole side to this story that is purposefully being ignored, and seems to have a lot more truth to it.

(Important lesson: If the govt loses the first time on one thing, move to another country before they can beat you on another that will hurt you even more--like child services or the medical establishment...)

You can visit a few FB websites that tell that other side.

Yes, the other side to the story involves the grandfather who successfully won a court case against the pharmaceuticals and had a natural remedy he created passed and is now in use. This family was being "taught" a lesson.

As a Canadian I'm acutely aware at the massive government overreach that is occurring in every aspect of our lives, this case included. How is imprisoning the father and mother, putting the children in the care of Social Services, creating criminal records for the parents, etc. going to help the situation? Years ago it cost $80,000/yr. to keep an individual incarcerated; it certainly must be a lot more today. Then there is the cost of looking after the children, the emotional trauma to all family members, etc. all to be paid for by the bankrupt province of Alberta. Who in the legal system could possibly think this is a good idea unless the real reason is something more sinister.

Now when a child gets a cough instead of natural remedies the parents will rush the child to emergency because they don't want to end up in prison. That will increase medical costs in Alberta (which aren't free btw, someone has to pay for it) and further bankrupt the system.

[butterfly]

I guess from a LDS point of view, I don't see the issue so much as whether one should use personal treatment vs universal healthcare, but rather that parents are to be loving and do their best to protect their children. If these parents sincerely believed they were doing the right thing for their child, then I see no reason why they should be prosecuted. I support agency more than overregulation and punishment. I believe loving parents should have the right to take care of their children according to the dictates of their own conscience.

[Robin Hood]

I have been following this case carefully and believe this is a case of miscarriage of justice.
They must lodge an appeal and I have told them so.
I am certain they will get the conviction overturned.

[dconrad000]

I know David Stephan's father, Tony Stephan...just e-mailed this to him this morning. Let's see what happens.


_____________________________________

Tony, I just heard the news yesterday...I had no idea this was going on.


Here is how you win with David and Collet.


You go public in a big way with the following information and you file an appeal to overturn this great injustice...and you fight like a mother bear, using this information. You shine the light of truth on the whole thing in a big way, which will shame those trying to thwart justice into doing the right thing.


This is the crux of your defense -- right here -- and you build everything around it:


David and Collet had good reason to have misgivings about being too quick to use the traditional medical approach on their child, and should not be blamed for being hesitant to trust the medical establishment for the well being of their child.


Evidence abounds that the traditional medical establishment has been engaging in fraud and deceit and has been harming far more children than they have been helping.


As your defense, now is the perfect time to demonstrate the fact that millions of children have been harmed through the vaccination program. David and Collet had good reason to fear that by taking their child to the medical establishment, they might have wound up with a vaccination and great harm to their child.


You can use this 10 minute video clip as exhibit A:


https://youtu.be/tvcdh7KlgPI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


You can get in touch with the producer of the film Vaxxed and get a copy of the movie and use that as exhibit B.


You can use neurospecialist and brain surgeon, Dr Russel Blaylock's presentation (see the bottom of the page) as exhibit C.
dvd available here: http://radioliberty.com/vvabd.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


You can use this interview of Dr Andrew Wakefield as exhibit D -- which is a further witness to the harm to millions of children that has been occurring and the associated fraud and cover-up by the medical establishment.


https://youtu.be/f-u0UnOF5xU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can use this 9 minute video clip of Robert DeNiro who has a vaccine-damaged child as exhibit E -- as witness to censorship of this information getting out.


https://youtu.be/FJ7iPn39i08" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All of these people want to get the truth out and would be happy to be expert witnesses for you: Del Bigtree, the producer of the film Vaxxed; Russell Blaylock, MD; Andrew Wakefield, MD; Robert DeNiro who can testify of pressure that has been brought to bear by the vaccine industry in collusion with government to censor cdc whistleblower information concerning the fraud and the cover-up of the harm to millions of children by the traditional medical establishment.

Contact info available here -- through which you can get in touch with the producer of Vaxxed and all the above named expert witnesses: http://vaxxedthemovie.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Additionally, here are Dr Russell Blaylock and Dr Andrew Wakefield's websites, through which you can contact them:

http://www.blaylockhealthchannel.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.callous-disregard.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Tony, I think that if you use this approach and fight like a mother bear, it will do a tremendous great good for the public and vindicate David and Collet, in the process -- thus overturning the unjust verdict that has just occurred.

Feel free to call me if you have any questions or need further help getting in contact with the expert witnesses.

David and Collet and you are in our prayers. We call upon God to send heavenly power and angels down to help you.

Godspeed.

Dave Conrad
Manti, Utah
_______________________________________________
Important health and safety information for your loved ones, here:

One of the most important things that one can do for the health and safety of their friends and loved ones is to convince them to not allow any vaccinations for themselves or their children - ever.

Here is some information that should convince even the most skeptical of people of the truth of that bold statement.

Go to the following link, where I have posted my work in the vaccine resistance movement:

http://www.drdaveconrad.com/bio.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


1. Listen to the 36 minute interview entitled, "Interview of the author of "They Want To Inject My Kid With What?!!!"

2. Receive a second witness from highly respected Stanley Monteith, M.D. by listening to the 52 minute interview entitled, "Guest Appearance on the Stanley Monteith, M.D. Show".

3. Receive a third witness from highly respected neuro-specialist and brain surgeon, Russell Blaylock, M.D. by going to page 9 of "Vaccine Infowar In Cardston Country", and watching Dr Blaylock's 88 minute presentation.

[dconrad000]

Exhibit A:

It all unravels from there.

[Sunain]

David Stephan on Wednesday

Dear Jury,
I deeply Love each one of you and appreciate the tremendous sacrifice that you have made over the last 8 weeks. I only wish that you could've seen how you were being played by the crowns deception, drama and trickery that not only led to our key witnesses being muzzled, but has also now led to a dangerous precedent being set in Canada. The flood gates have now been opened and if we do not fall in line with parenting as seen fit by the government, we all stand in risk of criminal prosecution. Remember what the crown prosecutors closing remarks were to combat the fact that the ill equipped ambulance resulted in Ezekiel's brain death. She communicated that this was not about him dying, but rather about whether or not his life was endangered at any point due to our actions. How many parents have lost children for various reasons, all of which could be concluded that the child's life was endangered and that the parents should have been able to foresee it? How many parents have had close calls to losing a child, wherein it could be concluded that the child's life was endangered and the parents should have been able to foresee it? Whether medical attention is sought or not and your child lives, it is of no consequence. It is only about whether or not it can be proven that at some point your child's life was endangered, and if so you may find yourselves in the same boat as us.
The flood gates have now been opened and my main concern is no longer for Collet and I, but rather for Canadian's as a whole.
May Heaven help us all!
https://www.facebook.com/david.stephan. ... 6594445722" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A father found guilty of not providing his ailing toddler with medical care says he worries that others will be arrested if they don't "fall in line with parenting as seen fit by the government."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/a ... -1.3556405" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's already missed the point why the jury (and not the government) ruled against him. He didn't get a MD's doctors opinion which was freely available. The father could have then taken action how he saw fit based on the doctors recommendation. There are just some illnesses like bacterial meningitis that alternative health solutions can't treat. Antibiotics and even hospital care is required for a child with that condition.

What if the child had a heart defect that hadn't been detected and required surgery or some other issue that was causing him to be sick? President Nelson was one of the forefront aortic heart surgeons in the world. There are countless members of the church that are pharmacists, nurses and doctors. ALL would recommend seeking professional help and as I linked above, it is the policy of the church as well. Because professional care was taken off the table completely in this case, is the reason why they were found guilty.

No natural health product approved to treat meningitis

Juurlink said he understands that people sometimes turn to natural therapies because they don't trust drug companies.

"I am, as doctors go, about as skeptical of 'big pharma' as anyone can be," he said. "[But] the fact that drug companies sometimes act unethically or even criminally does not mean that natural health products are inherently better.

"The fact is that they [conventional drug companies] do produce some medicines that improve the quality of life and sometimes save lives," he said. "People do generally benefit from the therapies that we prescribe."

In an emailed statement, Health Canada told CBC News it "has not approved any Natural Health Products (NHPs) with a claim of treating meningitis," in reference to the Alberta court case.

Here is a great article of how modern day medical technology helps heal.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1985/12/spen ... h?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree though that because of this case, going forward it's going to make the legality of alternative health treatment harder for people that wish to use them because other people have been negligent with their treatments and their decisions about when to seek professional assistance.

The government isn't overstepping their bounds on all natural health products as we only have to look at Health Canada's decision which legitimizes their use here. This case was never about the legitimacy of using alternative health solutions, its already legal to do so here, its because those alternative health solutions couldn't have helped in this situation and because when the child's health continued to deteriorate, the parents didn't seek help and therefore were negligent in their duties. A case like this has actually added fire to the opposition of Naturopathy to get it banned though because other people will think these alternative health solutions can cure meningitis or other ailments.

"There are people who will seek this sort of care regardless of what Health Canada says," said Dr. David Juurlink, who specializes in clinical pharmacology and toxicology at the University of Toronto. "What irritates me and most other science-minded people who care about public health is that the federal government effectively legitimizes this nonsense."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/health-ca ... -1.3556392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Heather Boon, dean of the Leslie Dan faculty of pharmacy at the University of Toronto, is also the current chair of the Interdisciplinary Network for Complementary and Alternative Medicine Research (INCAM), which studies natural health therapies and their use.

Cases like the tragedy in Alberta, where people refuse conventional care, are "very rare," Boon said.

Research shows the "vast majority" of consumers who use natural products also turn to conventional medicine, she said.

This is the core of the issue! These parent's didn't resort to conventional medicine which would have saved their child and for not doing so, they will rightly and justly punished for their decision.

[dconrad000]

The medical establishment in collusion with government cannot be trusted...and can be extremely detrimental to the health, well being and life of your child. I don't blame this couple one bit for what has happened here...and if justice is truly served, the verdict will be overturned.

Exhibit A:

It all unravels from there.

[dconrad000]

This family was railroaded by a corrupt government in collusion with the medical establishment. Here is what really happened.



Non-Vaccinating Parents Found Guilty After Child Died – Exonerating Evidence Ignored


http://medicalkidnap.com/2016/04/28/non ... e-ignored/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dconrad000]

...started a new thread, entitled: "HELP FREE THIS FAMILY From Medical Tyranny", linked here:


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42187" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


...starting a movement.

...pending approval of the family, the movement will be called:

STOP MEDICAL TYRANNY

The movement will start in Southern Alberta and spread nationwide in Canada and nationwide in the US, and from there, worldwide.

The goals of the movement are as follows:

1. Get as many people as possible worldwide, the opportunity to watch the two video clips posted immediately above -- as a precursor to watching the full movie Vaxxed, once it is available.

2. Demand a fair trial for the Stephan family, wherein evidence is not suppressed.

__________________________________________

This movement needs to go public in as big a way as possible.

I think the producer of Vaxxed, Del Bigtree will help. I think the director of Vaxxed, Dr Andrew Wakefield will help. I think neuro-specialist and brain surgeon, Dr Russell Blaylock will help. I think parent of vaccine-damaged child, Robert DeNiro will help. I think parent of vaccine-damaged child, Robert F Kennedy, Jr (investigative journalist with a law degree) will help. I think Alex Jones and Infowars, which reaches 30 million people per week will help.

In addition to vindicating this beautiful, innocent family I think this could do a great service to the public by causing hundreds of millions of people, world wide to be curious to see, and make it a point to see the full movie Vaxxed when it becomes available.

[skmo]

Okay, so some are claiming the family has the right to use homeopathic hippie medicine. The Crown is saying their family were negligent. Since they clearly are guilty of causing the child's death, give them a sentence which retains their freedom and honors their dead child: Once a year, on their son's birthday anniversary, order them to spend the day at a park or other place where they'd see children the age their son would have been and have a court official remind them, all day, that their son should be out there.

[dconrad000]

Please don't make such comments without seeing this part of what actually happened, not reported in the main stream press.

This family was railroaded by a corrupt government in collusion with the medical establishment. Here is what really happened.



Non-Vaccinating Parents Found Guilty After Child Died – Exonerating Evidence Ignored


http://medicalkidnap.com/2016/04/28/non ... e-ignored/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dconrad000]

The following two videos need to go viral and the verdict needs to be reversed. This is a travesty of justice.


Exhibit A:

It all unravels from there.



Exhibit D:

[skmo]

Please don't make such comments without seeing this part of what actually happened, not reported in the main stream press.

Please don't make assumptions about what I have or haven't read. I've seen conflicting reports from doctors and the nurse friend they consulted, the nurse was reported to say she warned them they should seek immediate medical health and that she told them not to worry about a thing. Where dad was a founder of Truehippiecures (or whatever they call themselves) I'm not inclined to give him a great deal of credibility.

They'll carry this around every day for the rest of their lives? Good. I'd say that's a fitting consequence of using batwing broth, eye of newt, and maple syrup water for treating a meningitis patient.

Excuse me. I don't mean a "meningitis patient." I meant to say "hippiecure victim."

[dconrad000]

Dear Fellow LDS Freedom Forum members:

Please consider honoring this request on behalf of the family that has undergone this tragedy: Before making any unkind comments towards this family, will you please at least do them this courtesy first? Carefully study the information in this link, then watch the first 12 minute video and then the first 15 minutes of the second video. That will take about 45 minutes of your time, altogether. I am asking fellow LDS Freedom Forum members as a courtesy, to at least consider doing that first, and then please think very carefully before making any unkind comments towards this family. These are really, really good people. They have had a great tragedy compounded upon a great tragedy...and I have referred them to this site. I think if you were to meet them in person and get to know the family, you would know that these are just really good, salt-of-the-earth people.

This family was railroaded by a corrupt government in collusion with the medical establishment. Here is what really happened.



Non-Vaccinating Parents Found Guilty After Child Died – Exonerating Evidence Ignored


http://medicalkidnap.com/2016/04/28/non ... e-ignored/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The following two videos need to go viral and the verdict needs to be reversed. This is a travesty of justice.


Exhibit A:

It all unravels from there.



Exhibit D:

[dconrad000]

One salient point from the story I linked above, "Non-Vaccinating Parents Found Guilty After Child Died – Exonerating Evidence Ignored", is that the Chief Medical Examiner was pressured to not tell the truth -- that the findings were really that it was not bacterial meningitis. She refused to "sell her soul"...would not go along and was fired from her job. Her assistant then was placed to testify in her place and presented what the prosecution wanted the jury to hear. The actual finding was that if there was any meningitis at all, and that was questionable...that it definitely was not bacterial meningitis...if anything it might have been viral meningitis. Please note the irony: There is no vaccine for viral meningitis -- only for bacterial meningitis...and antibiotics also do not work against viruses. Please see the entire story I linked for more details of fraud and cover-up, with an agenda -- in the miscarriage of justice of this family.

[skmo]

Please consider honoring this request on behalf of the family that has undergone this tragedy: Before making any unkind comments towards this family, will you please at least do them this courtesy first? Carefully study the information in this link, then watch the first 12 minute video and then the first 15 minutes of the second video. That will take about 45 minutes of your time, altogether. I am asking fellow LDS Freedom Forum members as a courtesy, to at least consider doing that first, and then please think very carefully before making any unkind comments towards this family.

When you ask people to refrain from unkind comments, I believe you mean unsympathetic comments. One may have sympathy for the situation and yet still make comments you deem "Unkind" even though they are factual. I don't wish cruelty on this family, but I also didn't wish death for their dead little one because his parents acted in a way I believe to be stupid.

These are really, really good people.

I believe Jonah was a great person, too. It didn't change the suffering he underwent because of his choices.

They have had a great tragedy compounded upon a great tragedy

They had a great tragedy, which some believe they brought themselves because of their actions. It was followed by a system of justice consequence. If they are judged to be innocent in their appeals, they will not suffer a legal consequence.

...and I have referred them to this site.

Please feel free to warn them about me. I do my best to follow Brian's rules, and when I don't I apologize for my mistake. However, I don't apologize for comments which are factually correct or are appropriately clarified as my own personal viewpoint (though it won't be profane or vulgar.) I don't sugar coat unpleasant things but I don't employ cruelty, either. If one believes I'm wrong, I'm academically honest enough to discuss why we disagree. I've had several of these recently with my disapproval of Trump, and though I've had some grand disagreements with some over my beliefs, I haven't been too concerned because we all learn something. Well, generally, at least.

[skmo]

Copied and posted from another thread:

Thanks for posting this. Is this not the gospel right here? Helping others who need help?

You mean the dead 18 month old baby? Yes, he did need help. Certainly and clearly more than his parents gave him.

From the little I have read this seems like a "screw-job" by Big-Pharma.

From what I've read From an Apostle of God:

The use of medical science is not at odds with our prayers of faith and our reliance on priesthood blessings. When a person requested a priesthood blessing, Brigham Young would ask, “Have you used any remedies?” To those who said no because “we wish the Elders to lay hands upon us, and we have faith that we shall be healed,” President Young replied: “That is very inconsistent according to my faith. If we are sick, and ask the Lord to heal us, and to do all for us that is necessary to be done, according to my understanding of the Gospel of salvation, I might as well ask the Lord to cause my wheat and corn to grow, without my plowing the ground and casting in the seed. It appears consistent to me to apply every remedy that comes within the range of my knowledge, and [then] to ask my Father in Heaven … to sanctify that application to the healing of my body.”

How would we feel if this was us?

If I were the parent of a child who died of bacterial meningitis, if I had spent weeks of trying olive leaf extract, whey protein, water with maple syrup, juice with frozen berries, and a mixture of apple cider vinegar, horseradish root, hot peppers, onion, garlic and ginger root - instead of seeking proper, legitimate medical care, I'd probably be screaming "Big Pharma Did IT" too, in order to avoid facing the blame myself.

I am sorry for them that their child is dead. I'm sorry they probably won't be able to be with their other children because of their actions. However, I hope they're going to be able to learn to accept some of the blame for their child's death is theirs.

[Fiannan]

Maybe we need to have a happy medium in this whole debate. I agree that we give too many vaccines and to those who are too young. However, I believe that many vaccines are quite justified.

We need to also look at this case. The child was sick and needed medical treatment. Heck, Luke was a doctor. It is one thing to say you are against poking a kid like a pin cushion but quite another to not take a sick child to the doctor.

However, I would not send these parents to jail. What will that accomplish?