Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Alternative/natural solution-based discussions of topics like health, medicine, science, food, etc.
freedomforall
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Re: ARE PEOPLE WHO JUDGE OTHERS RASHLY, ACTING CHRIST-LIKE?

Post by freedomforall »

Fiannan wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Fiannan wrote:We are instructed to be fruitful, multiply and replenish the earth. Obesity is associated with infertility. We are instructed to dedicate our time and talents to the building of the Kingdom of God. Obesity kills people prematurely, thus robbing the Church of needed manpower as well as robbing grand-kids their ability to know their elders.
So does living 800 miles plus from grand-kids, obese or not. Obesity in and of itself is not so much the problem. It's when obese people quit exercising that hurts them, fat or skinny. I knew a man that jogged regularly and, being of normal weight, had a stroke while running. Some people have high cholesterol, even thin ones, and die young from heart attacks. While others have a lot of internal inflammation that raises havoc in their system and can cause premature death.
A person can have Hemochromatosis (high ferritin level) that if undetected can cause body organs to shut down and kill the body. Hemochromatosis is passed down from parents to children, and the parents may not be effected by the condition.Then there are thyroid diseases that can cause obesity.
So let's not get so wrapped up on people being overweight as the main cause of premature death.
There is way much more than simply living the WoW.
I think you are mixing up being slightly overweight and being obese. Exercise is indeed the critical factor but while many people who are a bit overweight do exercise, and thus maintain healthy bodies, people who are obese have almost always arrived at that condition by not exercising. How many obese people do you see mountain biking, skying, running doing any other sort of aerobic activity? The lack of exercise is why most get to the shape they are in.

Yes, people who exercise can die, just as there are women who have six kids and still get breast cancer or men who never smoke and get lung cancer. However, the risk of dying prematurely when you exercise regularly are certainly reduced.

And why is it that people often cite rare conditions or genetics as the causes of obesity? Most obesity today is a factor of taking in more calories than using, plain and simple. Look at pictures from the 1940s, how many obese people were there? Unless the few obese ones in those days had all the children how can one explain the explosion of obesity today as (in reality) those people in the 1940s produced the people of today?
What you think and what I know are two different things.
Are obese people any less loved by God?
Are normal weight humans tempted to make fun of fat/obese people.
Are those that make fun of the obese truly acting Christlike, or merely exhibiting their own pride and self love?
I cite rare conditions so that people who make jokes about fat people cannot clump all fat people into the same mold.
I have Hemochromatosis, Diabetes, Arthritis, Edema and numbness in both feet and legs, have broken both ankles (one while riding my bike) a need for a shoulder replacement, a knee replacement, both work related problems that crept up on me in later years, and am well over weight since retiring from work....yet I ride my bicycle and pull a dog trailer with about an additional thirty pounds for many miles, and I'm pushing 69 years of age. I also take my dog for long walks at a local park. Does this fit your paradigm of how badly out of shape the obese are? Don't judge a book by its cover, I say. Experience outweighs misconception every time.
Please allow God to love me, because He loves me unconditionally. People, not so. Frankly, I care less what people think of me. If they're not interested in me as a person, only how I look in society...I don't need them as a friend.
I posted this info because I'm not ashamed of being a child of God, nor what people think. What others think is not going to effect my salvation in the least.
Secondly, I wonder if those trying to live so long are really afraid of death. We all got to die sometime, so what does it matter as to when?
I received some good counsel on this. It goes like this...live each day as though it were your last...one day at a time! We can hope to see tomorrow, next week or next year for the family reunion...but die today. It doesn't matter how ones body is shaped when they are taken home. Did they endure to the end in righteousness? Did they get rid of pride, envy, mocking others, causing discord among brethren, gossip and did they repent of sins regularly? Did they feast upon the word of God? Did they express love toward their fellow man? Did they keep their covenants and the Lord's commandments? Were they steadfast and immovable in doing good works?
Did they truly believe this scripture in the D&C?

Doctrine and Covenants 88:29
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
Where does it say, except obese people?
SEE also: D&C 76:70 (50–70).

Are the gifts of God only for those who keep all the commandments all of the time? Name one person on earth other than Jesus that did just that. But here is some good news:

Doctrine and Covenants 46:9
9 For verily I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments, OH,oh, now what? Are you ready? And him that seeketh so to do; that all may be benefited that seek or that ask of me, that ask and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts.

Are obese people excluded from these blessings by some people's self imposed standards? Not according to God.

Fiannan
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Fiannan »

Are obese people excluded from these blessings by some people's self imposed standards? Not according to God.
Nobody has imposed anything, biology has. And God made biological rules. Yes, there are people with problems that lead to a predisposition to gaining weight easier than others. That is not common however. Of course there are genetic predispositions for sensitivity to alcoholism as well as what a host of what we categorize as psychological and moral issues. However, it is not nice to bully people because they are fat, but the idea that questioning the desirability of obesity as "fat shaming" is quite dangerous and ultimately not kind to people with weight issues.

Maybe I could put this into perspective. My mother died from complications due to her weight. So while I rarely provide insights in a personal context I can tell you that it felt pretty bad telling my children they would not see grandmother, and even though my two oldest were very, very young it was quite sad for them. So do not place me into some camp of people sitting on a throne and passing judgement on those with weight problems. I refuse to be an enabler though in regards to the obesity epidemic as it is killing many, many people each year and destroying the quality of health of many others.

And freedomforall, it sounds as if you are doing your best with what you have been given, thus, following lesson of the Parable of the Talents you are doing God's will and I am sure you are gaining blessings for doing so in this life and in the hereafter. Your striving to stay active is probably an inspiration to those close to you.

roycelerwick
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by roycelerwick »

Well, the fact is the Word of Wisdom is not a commandment. It is canonized, hard-core doctrine and as I say, the actual reading of the actual revelation exposes the politically-based falsehood promulgated by Heber J Grant as utter nonsense. Yes, getting fat is, by canon, no worse than drinking. That's just a fact. Grant was caught up in the "Temperance" movement, which he advanced to the "T-For Total Abstinence" movement out of personal, political, Methodist/Wesleyan "Holy Lifestyle" influences encountered in the early English missionary adventures. The actual revelation given to Joseph Smith, and canonized, specifically notes:

1 A Word of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

This is, as it is titled, "good advice." It is not, as Grant bullied into "policy," a "commandment." In fact, the text of the "revelation" itself specifically defines itself as a "non-commandment," never to be enforced or required or imposed upon any individual Saint, even the weakest of them.

Because of his own secular and political prejudices against drinking, (something not really stressed up to that point in the leadership of the church,) Grant did an end run around the specific, revealed declaration of God, by deeming it a "test of faith," and instituting it as a requirement for temple worship and prerequisite for baptism. Essentially his position was, well, God may not demand it, but God said it was a good idea, and if you can't get on board with it you really can't be a Latter-day Saint. I know better than God, I'm in charge. From that forward, the church became all about the Word of Wisdom and little more, which frankly, is a sad state of affairs that alienates and excludes billions of Truth Seekers everywhere.

Joy N Wisdom
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Joy N Wisdom »

NO IT"S NOT, WHY? ....... IT CAN'T BE HELPED ....... GOD SAY'S ...... FORGIVE 7X7 WHEN THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO, AND NOT DONE ON PURPOSE IN A MAJORITY OF CASES

Joy N Wisdom
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Joy N Wisdom »

FAT IS ACID STORED IN YOUR CELLS, MAJORITY OF OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE ARE STORING A LOT OF ACID THIS IS WHAT FAT IS ................... HOW DO YOU GET RID OF THE FAT ............... SIMPLE ALKALINE FOODS OR SPICES ......... CREME OF TARTER CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE ...... EAT LIKE A HORSE AND NEVER GET FAT ....... ALSO EAT ONLY YOUR BLOOD TYPE OR ELSE YOU WILL JUST STORE IT IN YOUR CELLS ...... DO EASY TEST WITH DARK FIELD MICROSCOPE OR GO TO A MICROBIOLOGIST & YOU SEE IT IN YOUR BLOOD. WELL TELL ALL , AND GO CHECK THIS INFO OUT FOR YOURSELF. PROOF LONGEST LIVING PEOPLE ARE ALKALINE ENVIROMENTS AND THEIR FOODS........ THE FIRST HEALTH PRODUCT WAS CORRAL CALCIUM FROM JAPAN IN A CLINIC IN SPAIN ... THE FIRST AND BEST BOOK IS " FOLK REMEDY" FROM VERMONT

Hivetyrant36
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Hivetyrant36 »

Wow a whole 30 pounds overweight??? Really? Really?
I am currently a heft 370 pounds. THAT is overweight. 30 pounds is nothing.
Obesity, if that is what we are talking about, is mainly a mental illness. Something in my brain tells me to eat (no I don't constantly eat. No my meals aren't 3 peoples worth. I don't eat all that much more than anybody else, and I've seen skinny people eat way more than I ever could) when I am stressed and the anxiety doesn't help either. On top of that, I'm pretty sure my body doesn't process foods correctly when I am stressed. I also have a snails metabolism. This results in me gaining 50 pounds in a 4 month period if I am exceptionally stressed. It isn't a matter of WoW or not, it's about health.

In the end, this is the body God gave me. How much of my life am I going to sit there and hate myself because of my size? BTW Extreme diet and exercise work but only to a point. I can lose max 30 pounds before gaining again due to stress of not losing. Ironic, isn't it.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

-----------------

ABSOLUTELY IT IS @-)

Refer not only to WOW, but also consider the AOF where Paul admonishes us to seek after things that are praiseworthy. Anything that reduces our lifespan is a bad thing; even Spock's mantra of Live Long and Prosper is an apt description of this vital concept. Granted it's difficult for some that must face a greater challenge. Recently capsules of Konjac root have proven beneficial towards my own quest of feeling satisfied without engaging in over indulgence. Seek and ye shall find applies to every aspect of our lives, not just cerebral concepts.

.

Fiannan
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Fiannan »

Joy N Wisdom wrote:NO IT"S NOT, WHY? ....... IT CAN'T BE HELPED ....... GOD SAY'S ...... FORGIVE 7X7 WHEN THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO, AND NOT DONE ON PURPOSE IN A MAJORITY OF CASES
Exercise more (physically and in regards to self-control) and eat less. Works every time.

Fiannan
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Fiannan »


Fiannan
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Fiannan »

BYU certainly just laid the facts out straight in those days. Now people are too scared to be honest. No wonder we have so much obesity.

Weved1950
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Weved1950 »

Bee Prepared wrote:
Elizabeth wrote:I think tattoos are disgusting. They make me feel revulsion for the person.
That's why I put mine where I can hide it. ;)

Image
Thats a nice place to hide a tattoo :ymparty:

thisisspartaaa
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by thisisspartaaa »

usumle wrote:I dated a beautiful woman awhile back. She is an RM, college grad, and from a great family. She is beautiful ..... AND BIG. :-? She is overweight. We went on a mini-roadtrip once and stopped at Taco Bell. I was tired. I wanted a fruity drink so I selected something that looked fruity at the self-serve drink area. I had about 4-5 ounces of the mystery drink in my cup. I took a sip and it tasted funny. oops , it was LIPTON ICED TEA....... she immediately went on a mini rant about me 'violating the WOW'. It was surprising and quite condescending how she tore into me. Yikes. Looking back at her self-righteous rant, I agree with her mostly. Yes, Tea falls under D & C section 88. Ironically, she was sucking down MOUNTAIN DEW !! and she is, as mentioned, atleast 30 lbs OVERWEIGHT.
I never mentioned her excess poundage. SHe is a wonderful covenant daughter of God.

QUESTION: IS BEING OBESE BREAKING THE WOW ?
Have you seen the garbage that is served at ward functions? No wonder why America is obese. It may not be breaking the WoW as far as a temple recommend but I would say it's breaking the spirit of the law.

Matchmaker
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Matchmaker »

I agree that the choices of food at most Ward functions tend to be in the unhealthy category - high fat, high sugar, over-processed. That's because junk food is usually easier to prepare and cheaper to make. I agree that these food choices do us more harm than good and that some Relief Societies are full of overweight women who should know better, but we are there for the fellowship, not the nutrition. When the famines come and food is scarce, we'll look back on those days of plenty with fondness.

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Mark
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Mark »

Matchmaker wrote:I agree that the choices of food at most Ward functions tend to be in the unhealthy category - high fat, high sugar, over-processed. That's because junk food is usually easier to prepare and cheaper to make. I agree that these food choices do us more harm than good and that some Relief Societies are full of overweight women who should know better, but we are there for the fellowship, not the nutrition. When the famines come and food is scarce, we'll look back on those days of plenty with fondness.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.."

Conspiring men and women in the last days want to addict people to substances that create excess fat gain. That's the bottom line. Just like the drug dealer who wants to addict its crack cocaine addicts. The answer is to get the body to switch its fuel source to Ketons by going ketogenic and avoiding the gmo infested carbs and sugars and high unhealthy fats like the plague. My wife coaches a diet for people and once they get into the state of ketosis by cutting out all the fat inhancing poisons laden with processed sugars and hydrogenated oils and high carbs and begin eating lean proteins and poison free veggies and healthy lower fats then their bodies kick into its optimal fat burning stage and the excess fat starts to melt away. Some people lose a boatload of weight and inches within a month. And they feel 10 times better. It works.

Fiannan
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Fiannan »

I frequently see people who are elderly who are smokers.

I rarely see elderly obese people.

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Mark
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Mark »

Fiannan wrote:I frequently see people who are elderly who are smokers.

I rarely see elderly obese people.

Where do you live? Japan? You obviously never go to your neighborhood Walmart.. :))

Fiannan
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Fiannan »

Mark wrote:
Fiannan wrote:I frequently see people who are elderly who are smokers.

I rarely see elderly obese people.

Where do you live? Japan? You obviously never go to your neighborhood Walmart.. :))
:) I said elderly. Many of those people who have to ride those motor scooters originally constructed for disabled people may look old, but they are not (in years).

Juliet
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Juliet »

Being overweight is probably the number 1 cause of stress for almost every single woman that I know. I can talk to any woman friend for about 20 minutes before the conversation turns to how much weight we need to lose. Hours and hours spent myself included completely agonizing over our waist sizes.

Yes, we should all eat healthy and be skinny, but there is a problem when you cannot enjoy life because of the symbiotic balance between the spirit and body being misaligned. It is like we all want a clean house and vacuumed car, and we all want to be skinny, but it is unreasonable for some us to do agonize so much and so often when we don't do it perfectly, especially considering there are children involved (who affect the ability to achieve both).

Maybe instead of focusing on losing weight we should focus in losing stress and the body will align accordingly. After all, Jesus' burden is easy, and light. :) I am not saying give up on important physical goals, but just like most people know they have been housecleaning long enough for the day and it is time to move on, there can be more to life than shaming ourselves because we don't eat right.

eddie
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by eddie »

We have a family in our ward who are big people and overweight. They had a baby girl while in the ward and we have had the pleasure of watching her grow up. I could tell by the time she could walk that she would be a big person and overweight. You say bad eating habits, I say genetics.

One of the last justified prejudice is toward overweight people. It seems to me that if a person is born tall, short, dark, white, heavy, thin, there's not much they can do about it. If you have big feet, and its not popular, what are you going to do, cut them in half?

This life is not a race against each other, it is to love and accept each other, to help each other along the way. We who live in these latter days are pioneers as surely as those who pulled handcarts. We live with drugs, watching our children serve prison sentences or die, we live with same sex marriage, gay rights, almost every commercial on T.V. is pseudo porn.

So what if overweight people ride scooters, SO WHAT!! They have a problem that doesn't kill others in car accidents, they don't abandon their children and lose their soul like drug abusers, they don't steal from their Grandma, ( they just eat her pie) :)

We all have problems, but its easy to focus on the one you don't have, right? Are any of us perfect or in fact breaking one commandment or another, if so, please speak up.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Elizabeth »

Eddie, Rather than live in a dream world of excuses it is best to face reality.
Can you tell us the food the overweight family you speak of eat?

eddie
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by eddie »

Elizabeth wrote:Eddie, Rather than live in a dream world of excuses it is best to face reality.
Can you tell us the food the overweight family you speak of eat?
And whats your excuse for being such a know-it-all?

Genetics. A person is more likely to develop obesity if one or both parents are obese. Genetics also affect hormones involved in fat regulation. For example, one genetic cause of obesity is leptin deficiency. Leptin is a hormone produced in fat cells and also in the placenta. Leptin controls weight by signaling the brain to eat less when body fat stores are too high. If, for some reason, the body cannot produce enough leptin or leptin cannot signal the brain to eat less, this control is lost, and obesity occurs. The role of leptin replacement as a treatment for obesity is currently being explored.
medicine.net

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Elizabeth
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Elizabeth »

That is not the point eddie. What foods do they eat and what drinks do they drink?

Fiannan
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by Fiannan »

eddie wrote:
Elizabeth wrote:Eddie, Rather than live in a dream world of excuses it is best to face reality.
Can you tell us the food the overweight family you speak of eat?
And whats your excuse for being such a know-it-all?

Genetics. A person is more likely to develop obesity if one or both parents are obese. Genetics also affect hormones involved in fat regulation. For example, one genetic cause of obesity is leptin deficiency. Leptin is a hormone produced in fat cells and also in the placenta. Leptin controls weight by signaling the brain to eat less when body fat stores are too high. If, for some reason, the body cannot produce enough leptin or leptin cannot signal the brain to eat less, this control is lost, and obesity occurs. The role of leptin replacement as a treatment for obesity is currently being explored.
medicine.net
Weird, this genetics thing. I mean, if you look at group photographs of people in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and even 1970s you rarely spot obese people. Now they are everywhere. Was there a special breeding program for obese people I did not hear about?

And why is it that you rarely see obese people at the local organic foods store? You rarely see obese gay men or obese hippies. What gives, genetics?

Truth is, there is a factor Eddie I will give you, and that is the fat-feedback loop. If, for instance, a man starts putting on the weight, especially around the waist, the fat cells produce an estrogen-like hormone that lowers the effects of testosterone on metabolism - testosterone often associated with higher metabolism and muscle growth. With lower testosterone the man becomes sluggish and begins to reduce movement (think of the fat people on the dystopian movie Wall-E). With conservation of movement the fat cells accumulate mass and more estrogen is produced, lowering even his reproductive capabilities. He becomes more sluggish, requires more rest and, well...develops a body that may have once looked like Luke Skywalker into Jabba the Hut. Of course this process also works on women -- in fact women who go on hormonal birth control, without compensating with more exercise, will often gain more weight as a result.

Humans are geared for survival. In the past our ancestors needed to put fat on when food was available. If they had not they would have starved to death when it wasn't. We are then programmed to eat when we can. Sadly with our inexpensive food, seditary life style and 24 hour food availability we pack on the calories. It takes a conscious decision to actually stay in shape as most of us no longer work in steel factories or lumber mills where weight gain would be difficult. So to be able to run and not be weary, walk and not faint, and be open to deep spirituality (read the WofW and see for yourself) one cannot sit on the couch, watch TV for hours, and then complain that they cannot fit into a seat on an airplane because of genetics.

eddie
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Re: Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

Post by eddie »

Elizabeth wrote:That is not the point eddie. What foods do they eat and what drinks do they drink?
Hang on, I'll give them a call, :))

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