Is being OVERWEIGHT breaking the Word of Wisdom ?

[usumle]

I dated a beautiful woman awhile back. She is an RM, college grad, and from a great family. She is beautiful ..... AND BIG. She is overweight. We went on a mini-roadtrip once and stopped at Taco Bell. I was tired. I wanted a fruity drink so I selected something that looked fruity at the self-serve drink area. I had about 4-5 ounces of the mystery drink in my cup. I took a sip and it tasted funny. oops , it was LIPTON ICED TEA....... she immediately went on a mini rant about me 'violating the WOW'. It was surprising and quite condescending how she tore into me. Yikes. Looking back at her self-righteous rant, I agree with her mostly. Yes, Tea falls under D & C section 88. Ironically, she was sucking down MOUNTAIN DEW !! and she is, as mentioned, atleast 30 lbs OVERWEIGHT.
I never mentioned her excess poundage. SHe is a wonderful covenant daughter of God.

QUESTION: IS BEING OBESE BREAKING THE WOW ?

[The ward heretic]

I dated a beautiful woman awhile back. She is an RM, college grad, and from a great family. She is beautiful ..... AND BIG. She is overweight. We went on a mini-roadtrip once and stopped at Taco Bell. I was tired. I wanted a fruity drink so I selected something that looked fruity at the self-serve drink area. I had about 4-5 ounces of the mystery drink in my cup. I took a sip and it tasted funny. oops , it was LIPTON ICED TEA....... she immediately went on a mini rant about me 'violating the WOW'. It was surprising and quite condescending how she tore into me. Yikes. Looking back at her self-righteous rant, I agree with her mostly. Yes, Tea falls under D & C section 88. Ironically, she was sucking down MOUNTAIN DEW !! and she is, as mentioned, atleast 30 lbs OVERWEIGHT.
I never mentioned her excess poundage. SHe is a wonderful covenant daughter of God.

QUESTION: IS BEING OBESE BREAKING THE WOW ?

It's not listed in section 89 so I imagine it doesn't violate the WOw. But the lord is not to hip on gluttony.

[Bee Prepared]

Being overweight does not mean a person is breaking the word of wisdom. Some people are tall, some are short, and some are round.
I don't believe in gluttony, but I do believe we all have different metabolisms. My husband eats circles around me and doesn't gain weight, while
I have to be very careful and always have been that way. I do agree that she over-reacted while drinking her Mt. Dew, haha. If you should ever marry her, don't get caught looking on the internet at things you should not be looking at, you might just meet your Maker! :))

[Melissa]

30 lbs overweight seems to be the new normal. Obese is more than that.

We should all strive to live a healthy life and the WOW is truely just a guide to help us. There are certain things that are prohibited to satisfy the letter of the law but there is a spirit of the law that people should strive for.

Personally, I do believe that some people who are obese are indeed breaking the WOW, but not all. We should be careful about judging outward appearances.

Sorry she gave you a WOW rant over a drink of ice tea. If you sat there and told her how you drink it all the time and see no problem then maybe she has the okay to question you (assuming your a potential spouse) but a mistake is innocent.

I wonder if people give others such a condemnation because they dont want to feel like they are missing out on some sort of fun or whatever. I remember a co-worker grown married man giving a sly remark of condemnation towards me openly over my cup of coffee vs his cup of hot chocolate. I was only 19 and thought it innappropriate. He just had to let me know that he knew of my sin...?

[Original_Intent]

The Word of Wisdom was made for man, not man for the word of wisdom.

I'm very overweight, I wish thirty extra pounds was my problem. However, the Lord wants me to obey the Word of Wisdom for my own sake, not for the sake of obeying rules.

[jbalm]

I was told by someone on this forum that my tattoos violate the WoW. So if it's going to be applied that broadly, then being overweight is a WoW violation too.

I can say that few things irk me more than a fat person giving me flack about the WoW.

[commonwealth]

You can ask yourself, does God want you to be overweight or obese? How might being obese slow you down/make your life more burdensome/etc? I think the evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men are alive and well at the grocery store. Why are certain foods placed at eye level for you, for your kids? Why is some food so cheap? Recent research suggests obesity is worse for your health than smoking. If we are wise, we will learn constraint. We are all tempted by indulgence in different ways, and I know every body is different, but you know you have power over what you take in - what you take in your body, and what you take in your mind. The law is adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of saints.

[Matchmaker]

Overeating and being fat doesn't violate the WOW, unless what you are overeating is meat or fruits and vegetables out of season, etc. With most people, that is not the problem. Most people overeat because they are addicted to sweets and refined carbohydrates, or they are emotional binge eaters. I know because I am one of them. Because of my poor eating habits, I have blood sugar problems, as well as weight issues.

From a spiritual standpoint, I don't see overeating as violating the WOW. With me, I see it as violating the commandment to fast. I have serious trouble fasting every month for a full 24 hours. I feel dizzy, light-headed, weak and irritable after 18 hours and usually end the fast before the 24 hours is over. I blame part of my failure to complete the 24 hour fast most days as a direct result of my overeating habits the rest of the month.

[jdawg1012]

I dated a beautiful woman awhile back. She is an RM, college grad, and from a great family. She is beautiful ..... AND BIG. She is overweight. We went on a mini-roadtrip once and stopped at Taco Bell. I was tired. I wanted a fruity drink so I selected something that looked fruity at the self-serve drink area. I had about 4-5 ounces of the mystery drink in my cup. I took a sip and it tasted funny. oops , it was LIPTON ICED TEA....... she immediately went on a mini rant about me 'violating the WOW'. It was surprising and quite condescending how she tore into me. Yikes. Looking back at her self-righteous rant, I agree with her mostly. Yes, Tea falls under D & C section 88. Ironically, she was sucking down MOUNTAIN DEW !! and she is, as mentioned, atleast 30 lbs OVERWEIGHT.
I never mentioned her excess poundage. SHe is a wonderful covenant daughter of God.

QUESTION: IS BEING OBESE BREAKING THE WOW ?

No, the end. That's the short answer.

The Word of Wisdom is a specific set of principles, with an associated set of blessings. All of them are listed. Obesity isn't one of the principles included in the easy to understand, specifically laid out, Word of Wisdom.

Now, I'm going to turn to the rest of this post. While I don't agree with your date's "self-righteous" rant, if it actually played out that way, I also don't agree with your arrogant and ungodly attitude towards a body that isn't your own to master. I'm a seasoned personal trainer, and your attitude exhibits, to me, an ignorant attitude regarding overweight people. Nor do I agree with what seems to be your attitude, in general. I did not see her "self righteous rant," but I can see your own immature, conceited, vanity-filled rant. Normally, I wouldn't be so bold in reproving the attitude you're displaying, but you decided to whine on the internet, under the auspices of wanting scriptural interpretations, that began and ended with insulting some girl who had the decency to date you, giving you a chance. Even if ended poorly, this is not a healthy way to react.

If all you wanted, was a scriptural clarification,your post wouldn't be written in its offensive, insulting and whining matter. Please consider your own thin skin (no pun intended) and you own personal maturity level--before your next date. It will benefit you greatly to do so.

Do you actually know how much she weighs? Are you guessing? Are you pretty good at judging body fat content? I measured people's body fat as a certified professional fitness trainer for many years. I'm pretty good at guessing, just by looking. Most people are not. Do you know how much of that "excessive poundage" is body fat? Do you have any clue what 30 lbs of excess body fat would look like? I bet you don't. Slap the volume of 4-one gallon jugs all over your body, that is 30 lbs of body fat. I don't mean total, I mean in excess. Because that's what you said. 30 ponds of EXCESS. Which on a young lady would mean between 50 and 70 lbs total of body fat. That is a LOT of fat. Think of it another way: Have you ever seen a big, blue 5 gallon water cooler jug? Or a 5 gallon bucket? That's approximately the volume of 30lbs of body fat. Ten big 3lb tubs of lard. 30 lbs of fat is huge, and it's not unhealthy on the average woman. 30lbs is right around ideal for a grown woman, actually, so an additional 30lbs would indeed be very, very big. A gym I was a member of many years ago had a model of 5lbs of body fat. It was big. (Roughly the volume of a gallon jug). Once someone saw how much 5 lbs of body fat was, they almost always joined, right then and there. 30 is a lot, it must be a challenge in life if she has to carry that much extra. Did you decide to relieve that burden for her?

Did you know that 30% body fat is not uncommon for an otherwise healthy woman? That's 40 lbs, in a 120lb woman. I remember in one anatomy class in college, one of the pretty thin girls was crying because she was about 25% body fat. She was not fat at all. I was a personal trainer for a number of years, helping people lose weight, primarily. I have seen overweight, I have seen obesity. Did you know that statistically you're more healthy to be somewhat heavyset than too thin? Did you know that not too long ago, being heavyset was considered the standard of beautiful? Did you stop to consider that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Do you have any idea what her health is like, physiologically? Soda isn't good for you, but neither is ANYTHING at Taco Bell. I don't see any Word of Wisdom or dietary "moral high ground" indicated for anyone by the details of your rant.

Elder Maxwell warned us of our society's "budding form of body worship." Perhaps your self-righteous, vanity-laden rant concerning her weight, is nothing more than an attempt at justification for her poorly handled reaction to a perceived sin of yours. Perhaps it is a blossoming form of body worship. I do not know. Maybe this scenario is exactly what Jesus meant by considering beams and motes. Seriously, I hope you consider that idea.

You are body shaming this woman on the vastness of the world wide web. The intimation is that it's because you were offended that she reproved you for drinking tea, that you now either want justification for your conscience, or else, you could have phrased it any number of ways without calling this poor girl (with a good pedigree, and covenant status, according to you) fat. FOUR TIMES. And she cannot defend herself, her actions, or her character. But maybe it's because you yourself are just vain, proud, and looking to assuage your own conscience. I don't know. I just know that whatever it is, your post was not appropriate or mature, and it didn't seem like a sincere plea for understanding. It seemed like a "back me up" rallying call, pervasive in in-group, out-group dynamics.

You could have just as easily (more easily in fact) started a post that said, "Do you all think that eating to the point of an unhealthy level of body fat is a violation of the Word of Wisdom? I've been giving this some thought, lately." (On a side note, there are already posts like that, I think the very first time I posted on this forum, was in reply to one such posting). But that's not what you said. You began your post with an insult, hurled from the safety of the anonymity of the internet, and against which the "covenant daughter of god" (your words) has no opportunity to defend herself or relate her position. You chose to start you post with passive aggressive insults to the poor girl, who was gracious enough to go on at least one date with you, and you choose to do it in a demeaning, judgmental way, and I quote:

I dated a beautiful woman awhile back. She is an RM, college grad, and from a great family. She is beautiful ..... AND BIG. She is overweight.

You prefaced your entire post within four, tiny, fragmented sentences, and within a mere 129 keystrokes, comprising only 28 very short words, you were clear in the message you wanted to convey. And what you chose to convey in that tiny set of ideas was that you think she's too fat. TWICE. Just in the preface. You managed to do just about everything you could (without resorting to being completely obnoxious by changing the font color or typesetting size) in order to make it absolutely clear, that before we read further, you wanted to tell us that's it's really vital for us to know that she's way too fat, in your opinion. This is what was really important for us to know, presumably so that we could run to your side, or sympathize with your mentality, in some way.

Really I hope you think about that. Does it really balance out, or make it less egregious, to you, the fact that you threw in "beautiful" twice during that 28 word count mess; because what you really had to emphasize over and over, was that you think she's just too fat. You must have really wanted to emphasize that point very badly because in addition to repeating it, twice in the introduction and four times in total, you also managed to stress her perceived fatness because you chose to use not just the standard (and correct) 3-period ellipsis (...) for dramatic, but an excessive FIVE-periods (.....), and then you COMPLETELY CAPITALIZED your conclusion of her fatness, all before ever telling us a single detail about the Taco Bell incident.

What you engaged in is called "priming." It's a principle of communication in which you set someone up to think in a certain way, by using techniques that guide their thought process the way you want. In this incidence, you attacked this girl's body, over and over, accentuating and emphasizing her perceived fatness, priming us to have a negative association when thinking of her, right off the bat. You then told us about how self-righteous she is, and then finished up with another round of complaints of fatness.

Even if she was obese, the correct choice would be to support and encourage healthy lifestyle choices, not demean her by telling her, or the rest of the world, how fat you think she is. You say you didn't tell her--good. But you did tell us. Did you offer her any help? Calling attention to weight is not helpful in getting people to treat their bodies well. I would know, I am a professional expert, though I no longer train others, due to health issues (fatness is not one of them, in case you wondered). People who can be reprimanded into weight loss are virtually nonexistent. They usually reprimand themselves all day, every day. They already know they are fat. They almost always lack an understand of how their body's physiology works; or else they lack a basic understanding of how to choose the best dietary options.

With all due respect, I suggest you work on your attitude, especially towards correction and women, before seeking a romantic relationship. Whether this advice offends you or not, I think you should consider it. I also suggest you take some courses in relationship communication, because what you posted here is not an example of mature communication. If you plan to get married, and hope to have kids, and that requires that you (hopefully you) successfully impregnate your wife, and she carries that baby to term; then you are going to have a fat wife at some point. A VERY fat wife, most likely--at least during pregnancy. Do you like kids? Each one will probably make your wife gain more fat. That's nature. Educate yourself now, on how to help her feel good about herself, while she's bearing your children, and trying to recover afterwards.

And she will probably get fatter as she ages. And so will you. And you have an excellent chance of losing your hair. And parts of both of you will sag, as the collagen in your body loses elasticity. And your nose will get too big. And your ears. And your knees will likely give out. And you'll both develop wrinkles. And you may lose your memory. And your hearing might fade. And your eyesight might fade, until you cannot see, and will beg for your sight, and long for the day to see your wife again, with a bulging belly, filled with life. And you know what it is that you probably won't care about at that point? If the woman who chose to be your companion, and stoop by your side for 40, 50, 60, or 70 ears is "too fat." I guarantee it. And should she pass away, you would beg for a chance to hold her in your arms, one more time. You will not care what she registered on a scale if you ever live to endure that trial.

I suggest you get YOUR OWN prideful, vain, and self-righteous attitude in check, and re-evaluate your priorities. You will not be happy in marriage until you do. I say this with every degree of confidence available to mortal man. Because whatever this original thread post was really intended to convey, it was most certainly not a humble supplication for clarification. It was filled with insults to the poor girl, vanity, justification, and patting your own back. It almost seemed you wanted extra credit for not "mentioning her excess poundage."

If you want, feel free to post a high resolution, detailed picture of yourself, and ask everyone to tell you what features of yourself aren't aesthetically pleasing. Actually, don't, because while that would be commensurate, it would not be edifying. Instead re-evaluate your psyche.

That's my advice to you, having enjoyed a long and happy marriage, and additionally enjoying the continued friendship of everyone I ever dated. Don't learn to cope with disappointing and incompatible relationship challenges or failures, by demeaning your dates, or by insulting their bodies to the whole world. It's juvenile.

So, "No," obesity is not against the Word of Wisdom, but gluttony does negatively affect our mortal experience. So can bad attitudes. I hope you take a good, long look at your own.

Lastly, I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes, by one of my favorite role models. It's the title of one of her books (I read it, and recommend you do, too) but it's also a mantra she lives by. "Beauty fades, but dumb is forever." By Judge Judith Sheindlin. Don't choose to be dumb. Learn to respect God's daughters, whom you date, and don't rant about them to the entire world, in a self-deprecating display of immaturity.

[commonwealth]

And by the way, welcome to the forum....

[jdawg1012]

I was told by someone on this forum that my tattoos violate the WoW. So if it's going to be applied that broadly, then being overweight is a WoW violation too.

I can say that few things irk me more than a fat person giving me flack about the WoW.

I've heard just about everything be contorted into the Word of Wisdom. As a young adult, some mental gymnast tried to convince me that gambling was against the Word of Wisdom (I am from Las Vegas). I asked that they show me the principle, and the associated promise. (While gambling may be unfavorable, it is obviously not a part of the very specific, and highly succinct, Word of Wisdom). Then when they couldn't, and couldn't create any rational link between them, I suggested they stop adding their personal prohibitions and philosophies to the scriptures and teaching them as gospel doctrine, if they wanted me to take them more seriously.

Other times, other people have tried to justify other silly inclusions of ideologies (like the "no tattoos") into the Word of Wisdom, and I told them they weren't included, notwithstanding the prudence of avoiding them (like gambling). I kid you not, I have been told, "Every bad thing is encompassed by the Word of Wisdom, it means that we should be healthy and [blah blah blah] isn't healthy, so, it's all against the Word of Wisdom."

I said, "We can stop the convolution of logic and save lots of time while we're at it by acknowledging that, 'Be ye perfect,' encompasses everything, anyway. That way I don't have to try and make a convoluted connection between disparate things like the Word of Wisdom's prohibition of tobacco and not watching Television (this is the type of thing that has been asserted to me my entire gospel life)."

"Be good," is pretty simple too. I don't need to try and connect crazy dots to live by that, either, lol.

[Bee Prepared]

I dated a beautiful woman awhile back. She is an RM, college grad, and from a great family. She is beautiful ..... AND BIG. She is overweight. We went on a mini-roadtrip once and stopped at Taco Bell. I was tired. I wanted a fruity drink so I selected something that looked fruity at the self-serve drink area. I had about 4-5 ounces of the mystery drink in my cup. I took a sip and it tasted funny. oops , it was LIPTON ICED TEA....... she immediately went on a mini rant about me 'violating the WOW'. It was surprising and quite condescending how she tore into me. Yikes. Looking back at her self-righteous rant, I agree with her mostly. Yes, Tea falls under D & C section 88. Ironically, she was sucking down MOUNTAIN DEW !! and she is, as mentioned, atleast 30 lbs OVERWEIGHT.
I never mentioned her excess poundage. SHe is a wonderful covenant daughter of God.

QUESTION: IS BEING OBESE BREAKING THE WOW ?

No, the end. That's the short answer.

The Word of Wisdom is a specific set of principles, with an associated set of blessings. All of them are listed. Obesity isn't one of the principles included in the easy to understand, specifically laid out, Word of Wisdom.

Now, I'm going to turn to the rest of this post. While I don't agree with your date's "self-righteous" rant, if it actually played out that way, I also don't agree with your arrogant and ungodly attitude towards a body that isn't your own to master. I'm a seasoned personal trainer, and your attitude exhibits, to me, an ignorant attitude regarding overweight people. Nor do I agree with what seems to be your attitude, in general. I did not see her "self righteous rant," but I can see your own immature, conceited, vanity-filled rant. Normally, I wouldn't be so bold in reproving the attitude you're displaying, but you decided to whine on the internet, under the auspices of wanting scriptural interpretations, that began and ended with insulting some girl who had the decency to date you, giving you a chance. Even if ended poorly, this is not a healthy way to react.

If all you wanted, was a scriptural clarification,your post wouldn't be written in its offensive, insulting and whining matter. Please consider your own thin skin (no pun intended) and you own personal maturity level--before your next date. It will benefit you greatly to do so.

Do you actually know how much she weighs? Are you guessing? Are you pretty good at judging body fat content? I measured people's body fat as a certified professional fitness trainer for many years. I'm pretty good at guessing, just by looking. Most people are not. Do you know how much of that "excessive poundage" is body fat? Do you have any clue what 30 lbs of excess body fat would look like? I bet you don't. Slap the volume of 4-one gallon jugs all over your body, that is 30 lbs of body fat. I don't mean total, I mean in excess. Because that's what you said. 30 ponds of EXCESS. Which on a young lady would mean between 50 and 70 lbs total of body fat. That is a LOT of fat. Think of it another way: Have you ever seen a big, blue 5 gallon water cooler jug? Or a 5 gallon bucket? That's approximately the volume of 30lbs of body fat. Ten big 3lb tubs of lard. 30 lbs of fat is huge, and it's not unhealthy on the average woman. 30lbs is right around ideal for a grown woman, actually, so an additional 30lbs would indeed be very, very big. A gym I was a member of many years ago had a model of 5lbs of body fat. It was big. (Roughly the volume of a gallon jug). Once someone saw how much 5 lbs of body fat was, they almost always joined, right then and there. 30 is a lot, it must be a challenge in life if she has to carry that much extra. Did you decide to relieve that burden for her?

Did you know that 30% body fat is not uncommon for an otherwise healthy woman? That's 40 lbs, in a 120lb woman. I remember in one anatomy class in college, one of the pretty thin girls was crying because she was about 25% body fat. She was not fat at all. I was a personal trainer for a number of years, helping people lose weight, primarily. I have seen overweight, I have seen obesity. Did you know that statistically you're more healthy to be somewhat heavyset than too thin? Did you know that not too long ago, being heavyset was considered the standard of beautiful? Did you stop to consider that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Do you have any idea what her health is like, physiologically? Soda isn't good for you, but neither is ANYTHING at Taco Bell. I don't see any Word of Wisdom or dietary "moral high ground" indicated for anyone by the details of your rant.

Elder Maxwell warned us of our society's "budding form of body worship." Perhaps your self-righteous, vanity-laden rant concerning her weight, is nothing more than an attempt at justification for her poorly handled reaction to a perceived sin of yours. Perhaps it is a blossoming form of body worship. I do not know. Maybe this scenario is exactly what Jesus meant by considering beams and motes. Seriously, I hope you consider that idea.

You are body shaming this woman on the vastness of the world wide web. The intimation is that it's because you were offended that she reproved you for drinking tea, that you now either want justification for your conscience, or else, you could have phrased it any number of ways without calling this poor girl (with a good pedigree, and covenant status, according to you) fat. FOUR TIMES. And she cannot defend herself, her actions, or her character. But maybe it's because you yourself are just vain, proud, and looking to assuage your own conscience. I don't know. I just know that whatever it is, your post was not appropriate or mature, and it didn't seem like a sincere plea for understanding. It seemed like a "back me up" rallying call, pervasive in in-group, out-group dynamics.

You could have just as easily (more easily in fact) started a post that said, "Do you all think that eating to the point of an unhealthy level of body fat is a violation of the Word of Wisdom? I've been giving this some thought, lately." (On a side note, there are already posts like that, I think the very first time I posted on this forum, was in reply to one such posting). But that's not what you said. You began your post with an insult, hurled from the safety of the anonymity of the internet, and against which the "covenant daughter of god" (your words) has no opportunity to defend herself or relate her position. You chose to start you post with passive aggressive insults to the poor girl, who was gracious enough to go on at least one date with you, and you choose to do it in a demeaning, judgmental way, and I quote:

I dated a beautiful woman awhile back. She is an RM, college grad, and from a great family. She is beautiful ..... AND BIG. She is overweight.

You prefaced your entire post within four, tiny, fragmented sentences, and within a mere 129 keystrokes, comprising only 28 very short words, you were clear in the message you wanted to convey. And what you chose to convey in that tiny set of ideas was that you think she's too fat. TWICE. Just in the preface. You managed to do just about everything you could (without resorting to being completely obnoxious by changing the font color or typesetting size) in order to make it absolutely clear, that before we read further, you wanted to tell us that's it's really vital for us to know that she's way too fat, in your opinion. This is what was really important for us to know, presumably so that we could run to your side, or sympathize with your mentality, in some way.

Really I hope you think about that. Does it really balance out, or make it less egregious, to you, the fact that you threw in "beautiful" twice during that 28 word count mess; because what you really had to emphasize over and over, was that you think she's just too fat. You must have really wanted to emphasize that point very badly because in addition to repeating it, twice in the introduction and four times in total, you also managed to stress her perceived fatness because you chose to use not just the standard (and correct) 3-period ellipsis (...) for dramatic, but an excessive FIVE-periods (.....), and then you COMPLETELY CAPITALIZED your conclusion of her fatness, all before ever telling us a single detail about the Taco Bell incident.

What you engaged in is called "priming." It's a principle of communication in which you set someone up to think in a certain way, by using techniques that guide their thought process the way you want. In this incidence, you attacked this girl's body, over and over, accentuating and emphasizing her perceived fatness, priming us to have a negative association when thinking of her, right off the bat. You then told us about how self-righteous she is, and then finished up with another round of complaints of fatness.

Even if she was obese, the correct choice would be to support and encourage healthy lifestyle choices, not demean her by telling her, or the rest of the world, how fat you think she is. You say you didn't tell her--good. But you did tell us. Did you offer her any help? Calling attention to weight is not helpful in getting people to treat their bodies well. I would know, I am a professional expert, though I no longer train others, due to health issues (fatness is not one of them, in case you wondered). People who can be reprimanded into weight loss are virtually nonexistent. They usually reprimand themselves all day, every day. They already know they are fat. They almost always lack an understand of how their body's physiology works; or else they lack a basic understanding of how to choose the best dietary options.

With all due respect, I suggest you work on your attitude, especially towards correction and women, before seeking a romantic relationship. Whether this advice offends you or not, I think you should consider it. I also suggest you take some courses in relationship communication, because what you posted here is not an example of mature communication. If you plan to get married, and hope to have kids, and that requires that you (hopefully you) successfully impregnate your wife, and she carries that baby to term; then you are going to have a fat wife at some point. A VERY fat wife, most likely--at least during pregnancy. Do you like kids? Each one will probably make your wife gain more fat. That's nature. Educate yourself now, on how to help her feel good about herself, while she's bearing your children, and trying to recover afterwards.

And she will probably get fatter as she ages. And so will you. And you have an excellent chance of losing your hair. And parts of both of you will sag, as the collagen in your body loses elasticity. And your nose will get too big. And your ears. And your knees will likely give out. And you'll both develop wrinkles. And you may lose your memory. And your hearing might fade. And your eyesight might fade, until you cannot see, and will beg for your sight, and long for the day to see your wife again, with a bulging belly, filled with life. And you know what it is that you probably won't care about at that point? If the woman who chose to be your companion, and stoop by your side for 40, 50, 60, or 70 ears is "too fat." I guarantee it. And should she pass away, you would beg for a chance to hold her in your arms, one more time. You will not care what she registered on a scale if you ever live to endure that trial.

I suggest you get YOUR OWN prideful, vain, and self-righteous attitude in check, and re-evaluate your priorities. You will not be happy in marriage until you do. I say this with every degree of confidence available to mortal man. Because whatever this original thread post was really intended to convey, it was most certainly not a humble supplication for clarification. It was filled with insults to the poor girl, vanity, justification, and patting your own back. It almost seemed you wanted extra credit for not "mentioning her excess poundage."

If you want, feel free to post a high resolution, detailed picture of yourself, and ask everyone to tell you what features of yourself aren't aesthetically pleasing. Actually, don't, because while that would be commensurate, it would not be edifying. Instead re-evaluate your psyche.

That's my advice to you, having enjoyed a long and happy marriage, and additionally enjoying the continued friendship of everyone I ever dated. Don't learn to cope with disappointing and incompatible relationship challenges or failures, by demeaning your dates, or by insulting their bodies to the whole world. It's juvenile.

So, "No," obesity is not against the Word of Wisdom, but gluttony does negatively affect our mortal experience. So can bad attitudes. I hope you take a good, long look at your own.

Lastly, I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes, by one of my favorite role models. It's the title of one of her books (I read it, and recommend you do, too) but it's also a mantra she lives by. "Beauty fades, but dumb is forever." By Judge Judith Sheindlin. Don't choose to be dumb. Learn to respect God's daughters, whom you date, and don't rant about them to the entire world, in a self-deprecating display of immaturity.

Wow jdawg, you are awesome. Way to put it in perspective, it seems putting overweight people down is an acceptable prejudice. Some of the best people I have ever met were overweight. They are humble, fun and loving. A person who is beautiful on the inside is beautiful on the outside, soon everything about them becomes beautiful.

Once at a football game this little girl kept staring at a very overweight man. Suddenly she walked up to him and hugged him. He had a big smile on his face, she knew he needed a hug, it was priceless!

[Obrien]

ICED tea =/= a hot drink, ergo, no violation of the WoW. Simple.

[Elizabeth]

Yes... the actions which led to obesity were.

QUESTION: IS BEING OBESE BREAKING THE WOW ?

[Bee Prepared]

Yes... the actions which led to obesity were.

QUESTION: IS BEING OBESE BREAKING THE WOW ?

And that's your call? " Thou shalt not judge."

[rewcox]

Is getting tattoos breaking the WoW?

[Melissa]

Is getting tattoos breaking the WoW?

I wouldn't think so, your not ingesting it. But if it is, then I am curious for the logic of it. I personally do believe that it is unhealthy for your body though.

I have one and no bishop has cared as long as I didn't get any more.

[zionminded]

What does the WoW mean to you?

If you think of it as a do and don't list, you're missing the point.

If you think of it as a way for the church to control you, you're missing the point.

If you think of WHY we have the Wow: that you can keep yourself tuned to Him and the voice of His spirit, then yes, you get it. Obeseness due to habits and your own food choices is a violation of the WoW. It won't keep you out of the temple but yes it is.

[caddis]

I guess if the WOW were a commandment then you would need to worry about "breaking" it. Good thing it's not.

[jbalm]

What does the WoW mean to you?

If you think of it as a do and don't list, you're missing the point.

If you think of it as a way for the church to control you, you're missing the point.

If you think of WHY we have the Wow: that you can keep yourself tuned to Him and the voice of His spirit, then yes, you get it. Obeseness due to habits and your own food choices is a violation of the WoW. It won't keep you out of the temple but yes it is.

Why do we have it?

It's pretty much useless as a health guideline. The only thing it got right is that tobacco is bad.

It's been reinterpreted to the point that it's enforced in a way that barely resembles Sec. 89.

What is it other than some arbitrary rules that keeps people out of them temple?

[zionminded]

What does the WoW mean to you?

If you think of it as a do and don't list, you're missing the point.

If you think of it as a way for the church to control you, you're missing the point.

If you think of WHY we have the Wow: that you can keep yourself tuned to Him and the voice of His spirit, then yes, you get it. Obeseness due to habits and your own food choices is a violation of the WoW. It won't keep you out of the temple but yes it is.

Why do we have it?

It's pretty much useless as a health guideline. The only thing it got right is that tobacco is bad.

It's been reinterpreted to the point that it's enforced in a way that barely resembles Sec. 89.

What is it other than some arbitrary rules that keeps people out of them temple?

We have it because most members need a black n white health code manual. It is much more than just no tobacco.

[jbalm]

Yeah. I know it's more than that. I'm just saying that the tobacco prohibition is the only part that has stood the test of time, as far as sound health advice goes.

I'm still baffled as to it's usefulness when it comes to sick cattle though.

[jdawg1012]

Yeah. I know it's more than that. I'm just saying that the tobacco prohibition is the only part that has stood the test of time, as far as sound health advice goes.

I'm still baffled as to it's usefulness when it comes to sick cattle though.

I've raised in the past (but no longer), livestock for several years. Rabbits, ducks, chickens, goats, sheep, and geese. I also lived with cattle and a herd of pack goats on a dairy farm for two years; additionally, my neighbors had horses for 15 years, growing up. In some, SOME, circles of thought, there are people who subscribe to the use of tobacco to get rid of internal parasites. I've also heard of a practice people used to have of feeding their horses chewing tobacco to make them feel better and work harder.

HOWEVER, the advice I have received and seen has been very conflicted, and some of the studies I have seen have said that it didn't actually work and actually made the animal's sicker. But, I remember one article that mentioned that when the owners of the horses gave them their tobacco, the horses were just getting addicted to the tobacco, so they would feel sick when they no longer got their fix. Like a caffeine dependent person who hasn't had their morning coffee, the horses acted sick until they got their piece of tobacco.

So, that's the philosophy behind the tobacco for livestock that was prevalent in the 1800's. I can't confirm or deny it from personal experience, but that's the idea that a lot of people had at the time, and which some still do.

[jdawg1012]

We have it because most members need a black n white health code manual. It is much more than just no tobacco.

I actually find this statement really funny, and so ironic, because while I personally believe that the Word of Wisdom is black and white (for instance, I believe that the "hot" means "hot," and not something entirely different), it's apparently sufficiently gray so as to cause debates among the members over the sanctity of herbal vs traditional tea, normal vs. decaf coffee, caffeinated soda, tattoos, gambling, yerba mate, kava kava, mild barley drinks, marijuana (which isn't illegal everywhere, and has medicinal value), and any number of other raging debates I hear about several times a week.

If people need a black and white code, and this is the Lord's version of that black and white code, to me it seems like this one is either being grossly misinterpreted by people (this is what I believe), or otherwise it's not really black and white (I don't feel this way).

[commonwealth]

There are all kinds of things that have medicinal value - nightshade, jimson weed, even toxins from Clostridium. That doesn't mean you should go around eating them. The WoW was given to people in a given time and place, and what was said to them meant something specifically to them. Just because the church interprets it differently today (hot drinks vs coffee and tea, doesn't specifically list illegal drugs, etc), doesn't make the rules any less valid. Times and situations change. If the prophet says don't drink tea, then don't drink tea. Don't sit and stew thinking the WoW doesn't specifically mention tea. If that's not good enough, talk to your doctor and bishop.

If you want a good, general set of health laws, try this:
-No coffee
-No tea
-No tobacco
-No unprescribed use of opioids, benzodiazepines, barbiturates, muscle relaxants/tranquilizers, amphetamines, cannabinoids, alkaloids, etc. You get the idea. You shouldn't have to be told to not sniff glue.
-Eat your fruits & veggies - lots of them, unless the doctor says not to
-Get your exercise. Don't think that exercise is going to compensate for not eating right.
-Control your calories
-Get sufficient sleep at night - how much will depend on circumstances