Energy Healing Showdown

[TrueIntent]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

Book of Mark

38 ¶And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

e-eye-2. beat me to it!! But I'll go ahead and post again.

Here's McConkie's explaination of that one:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).



You have to admit too, that energy healers do more than just go around freely healing or casting out devils. Some mix the Lord's name up with other words, signs and tokens.

Joseph Smith:

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

Until you understand Grace. Law of Moses vs law of Christ. There are no rules....Jesus healed by simply saying the words...you are healed. He didn't have to touch them. Yes...under the law of Moses, you are correct....once you come to Christ, the law of Moses is dead....and you heal like Christ.

[TrueIntent]

And yes!!!! The savior was correcting his own apostles...he did it all the time.

[Sarah]

Know your history people...it might help you access a greater truth...spend less time fighting, and more time learning. To be humble is to be teachable.

In Brigham Young’s own writings, he shared the following about seer stones in Dec. 27, 1841:

–27– I met with the Twelve at Brother Joseph’s. He conversed with us in a familiar manner on a variety of subjects, and explained to us the Urim and Thummim which he found with the plates, called in the Book of Mormon the Interpreters. He said that every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seerstone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness, and most of those who do find one make an evil use of it; he showed us his seerstone. (Brigham Young (1801-1877)Autobiography (1801-1844) in Manuscript History of Brigham Young Source: Manuscript History of Brigham Young, 1801-1844, ed. Elden Jay Watson (Salt Lake City: Smith Secretarial Service, 1968).

.....now...lets talk about this quote

"most of those who do find one make an evil use of it"

Sounds like the Lord prefers the people in general not use seerstones until he determines they are righteous and directs them to do so.

[Sarah]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

Book of Mark

38 ¶And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

e-eye-2. beat me to it!! But I'll go ahead and post again.

Here's McConkie's explaination of that one:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).



You have to admit too, that energy healers do more than just go around freely healing or casting out devils. Some mix the Lord's name up with other words, signs and tokens.

Joseph Smith:

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

Until you understand Grace. Law of Moses vs law of Christ. There are no rules....Jesus healed by simply saying the words...you are healed. He didn't have to touch them. Yes...under the law of Moses, you are correct....once you come to Christ, the law of Moses is dead....and you heal like Christ.

Then you obviously disagree with J.S. here. He says the ancients Saints were ordered by the Lord to use this sign and they were not under the Law of Moses.

The purpose of having rules is to have order in the Church. It is so the true power of the Lord can be recognized. It doesn't mean someone can't be healed any other way. There is a story of a woman being healed just from touching the handkerchief of the prophet - she couldn't make it to see him but sent her children, and he gave her children his handkerchief, who brought it to her. It was her faith that healed her. But in the Lord's house there is always a best or preferred way. I made another post dealing with this issue in the forgiveness of sins thread.

There are many ways Satan is mimicking the Lord's ways, and you have to be aware and careful of what you choose to do.

[TrueIntent]

Wow...that doesn't sound good for Joseph smith....he initially used it to find treasure. You're right...we shouldn't go out on a limb and investigate this like Joseph did...it's too easy to be deceived. We're not strong enough. We will never be strong enough to be like God or to utilize the atonement to perfect our weaknesses. Like I said....a bible a bible ...we have got a bible...we are good.

[Sarah]

Wow...that doesn't sound good for Joseph smith....he initially used it to find treasure. You're right...we shouldn't go out on a limb and investigate this like Joseph did...it's too easy to be deceived. We're not strong enough. We will never be strong enough to be like God or to utilize the atonement to perfect our weaknesses. Like I said....a bible a bible ...we have got a bible...we are good.

No problem with the Lord leading me to a seerstone, but you better believe I will test that message or messenger to make sure it is really from him.

[TrueIntent]

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

Book of Mark

38 ¶And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

e-eye-2. beat me to it!! But I'll go ahead and post again.

Here's McConkie's explaination of that one:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).



You have to admit too, that energy healers do more than just go around freely healing or casting out devils. Some mix the Lord's name up with other words, signs and tokens.

Joseph Smith:

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

Until you understand Grace. Law of Moses vs law of Christ. There are no rules....Jesus healed by simply saying the words...you are healed. He didn't have to touch them. Yes...under the law of Moses, you are correct....once you come to Christ, the law of Moses is dead....and you heal like Christ.

Then you obviously disagree with J.S. here. He says the ancients Saints were ordered by the Lord to use this sign and they were not under the Law of Moses.

The purpose of having rules is to have order in the Church. It is so the true power of the Lord can be recognized. It doesn't mean someone can't be healed any other way. There is a story of a woman being healed just from touching the handkerchief of the prophet - she couldn't make it to see him but sent her children, and he gave her children his handkerchief, who brought it to her. It was her faith that healed her. But in the Lord's house there is always a best or preferred way. I made another post dealing with this issue in the forgiveness of sins thread.

There are many ways Satan is mimicking the Lord's ways, and you have to be aware and careful of what you choose to do.

Order in the Lord's church for healing required? And yet the hankerchief was used by a phrophet in the Lords church to heal? You contradict yourself. The blind can't see.

[Sarah]

There is always a preferred way - the right way. If a woman is healing her children will her husband ever learn what it takes to heal in the Lord's name using the power of the Priesthood? If a man who is not baptized by proper authority and had the priesthood conferred upon him, attempts to heal in the Lord's name, thats great if he is successful, but he is missing out on the legal sealing of his relationship to God. Seek the best way and put behind the inferior and perhaps counterfeit ways.

[Sarah]

e-eye-2. beat me to it!! But I'll go ahead and post again.

Here's McConkie's explaination of that one:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).



You have to admit too, that energy healers do more than just go around freely healing or casting out devils. Some mix the Lord's name up with other words, signs and tokens.

Joseph Smith:

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

Until you understand Grace. Law of Moses vs law of Christ. There are no rules....Jesus healed by simply saying the words...you are healed. He didn't have to touch them. Yes...under the law of Moses, you are correct....once you come to Christ, the law of Moses is dead....and you heal like Christ.

Then you obviously disagree with J.S. here. He says the ancients Saints were ordered by the Lord to use this sign and they were not under the Law of Moses.

The purpose of having rules is to have order in the Church. It is so the true power of the Lord can be recognized. It doesn't mean someone can't be healed any other way. There is a story of a woman being healed just from touching the handkerchief of the prophet - she couldn't make it to see him but sent her children, and he gave her children his handkerchief, who brought it to her. It was her faith that healed her. But in the Lord's house there is always a best or preferred way. I made another post dealing with this issue in the forgiveness of sins thread.

There are many ways Satan is mimicking the Lord's ways, and you have to be aware and careful of what you choose to do.

Order in the Lord's church for healing required? And yet the hankerchief was used by a phrophet in the Lords church to heal? You contradict yourself. The blind can't see.

The woman sought healing from the Priesthood. She showed her faith and recognized the best way.

[TrueIntent]

On a side note...it will help you to understand deeply the difference between law of Moses and law of Christ. This probably seems very confusing to you. But like Christ says, the man who healed was not against them...he (the guy healing in Christ name) was with them....if you are healing in the name of Christ....what evil power are you using.....it's technique. Hanker chief or touching Christ's garment.....what's the difference??? It's a modality....like laying on of hands or energy healing? It's a technique....it's like rubbing clay in a guys eyes so he can see....it's a modality. What gives it power? Did you know some psychics use "laying on of hands" for healing????? Where does the power come from....its doesn't matter if you use a hanky, clay, or your hands.

[TrueIntent]

Until you understand Grace. Law of Moses vs law of Christ. There are no rules....Jesus healed by simply saying the words...you are healed. He didn't have to touch them. Yes...under the law of Moses, you are correct....once you come to Christ, the law of Moses is dead....and you heal like Christ.

Then you obviously disagree with J.S. here. He says the ancients Saints were ordered by the Lord to use this sign and they were not under the Law of Moses.

The purpose of having rules is to have order in the Church. It is so the true power of the Lord can be recognized. It doesn't mean someone can't be healed any other way. There is a story of a woman being healed just from touching the handkerchief of the prophet - she couldn't make it to see him but sent her children, and he gave her children his handkerchief, who brought it to her. It was her faith that healed her. But in the Lord's house there is always a best or preferred way. I made another post dealing with this issue in the forgiveness of sins thread.

There are many ways Satan is mimicking the Lord's ways, and you have to be aware and careful of what you choose to do.

Order in the Lord's church for healing required? And yet the hankerchief was used by a phrophet in the Lords church to heal? You contradict yourself. The blind can't see.

The woman sought healing from the Priesthood. She showed her faith and recognized the best way.

Yeah....I'm sure that is exactly what she was saying to herself...." If I just touch his garment the priesthood authority that Christ holds will heal me". She didn't seek healing from the priesthood...she sought healing from Christ. You are adding to the scriptures. Seriously....she was sick...she heard he was the son of God with healing power. She believed that touching his garment would heal her. And it did.....it wasn't about "the best way to be healed".........he was Christ. And like he said....it's okay to heal in his name,,.,,it's simply believing that the healing your are doing comes from Christ....exactly what the woman was doing by touching his garment. Modality: hanky, garment, clay....all in the name of christ

[TrueIntent]

There is always a preferred way - the right way. If a woman is healing her children will her husband ever learn what it takes to heal in the Lord's name using the power of the Priesthood? If a man who is not baptized by proper authority and had the priesthood conferred upon him, attempts to heal in the Lord's name, thats great if he is successful, but he is missing out on the legal sealing of his relationship to God. Seek the best way and put behind the inferior and perhaps counterfeit ways.

The Pharisees and scribes talked about legalities...not Christ

[TrueIntent]

I'm not trying to mock you....I'm just trying to break you out of the box I used to be in. Why does Christ need to make us free if we are not caged?

[Sarah]

Christ doesn't want to do everything himself. He delegates authority. He wants his servants and his people to be the means for blessing others.
So that is why the Lord has instructed to "call for the Elders." Give them the opportunity to bless in His Name.

Why did he give titles to men in the New Testament times. Doesn't that seem a little legalistic?

[Sarah]

On a side note...it will help you to understand deeply the difference between law of Moses and law of Christ. This probably seems very confusing to you. But like Christ says, the man who healed was not against them...he (the guy healing in Christ name) was with them....if you are healing in the name of Christ....what evil power are you using.....it's technique. Hanker chief or touching Christ's garment.....what's the difference??? It's a modality....like laying on of hands or energy healing? It's a technique....it's like rubbing clay in a guys eyes so he can see....it's a modality. What gives it power? Did you know some psychics use "laying on of hands" for healing????? Where does the power come from....its doesn't matter if you use a hanky, clay, or your hands.

You're assuming that what Elder McConkie was asserting was wrong. What if the man really did have priesthood authority?

Satan has his signs and tokens just as Christ does - Joseph said so - so how do you not know that the healing that is coming is not the result of Satan's power? I believe even if someone invokes Christ name, Satan can still be a part of it. The person is using the Lord's name in vain.

I've got to run and pick up kids - but perhaps I will return to the conversation.

[TrueIntent]

Christ doesn't want to do everything himself. He delegates authority. He wants his servants and his people to be the means for blessing others.
So that is why the Lord has instructed to "call for the Elders." Give them the opportunity to bless in His Name.

Why did he give titles to men in the New Testament times. Doesn't that seem a little legalistic?

Exactly...however he would do anything for us which is why he descended below all things for us. A title is just a title. Just like a hanky is a hanky. It's the power behind it that gives authority. There are differences between power and authority, and between offices given for the administration in the church. We often think, in the church, that if we are in a office, such as elder....that we have the power of the elder.....but I don't see many elders in the church doing what Joseph smith did with a hanky. Why? Most of it is because of unbelief. In the D&c...it talks about signs that follow...like healings, not being able to be poisoned.....just because someone lays hands on u and says you are an elder doesn't mean you are an elder with power. Power and authority comes from God not men..otherwise all the LDS men would be walking around with powers no one else had. Belief and faith is essential to all of this. Instead they have offices...that no one else has....some of them may have power but all the men at church don't have power...belief that they all do because of an administrative laying in of hands is what the Pharisees believed. It damed them ... Or in other words,prevented them from progressing

[TrueIntent]

On a side note...it will help you to understand deeply the difference between law of Moses and law of Christ. This probably seems very confusing to you. But like Christ says, the man who healed was not against them...he (the guy healing in Christ name) was with them....if you are healing in the name of Christ....what evil power are you using.....it's technique. Hanker chief or touching Christ's garment.....what's the difference??? It's a modality....like laying on of hands or energy healing? It's a technique....it's like rubbing clay in a guys eyes so he can see....it's a modality. What gives it power? Did you know some psychics use "laying on of hands" for healing????? Where does the power come from....its doesn't matter if you use a hanky, clay, or your hands.

You're assuming that what Elder McConkie was asserting was wrong. What if the man really did have priesthood authority?

Satan has his signs and tokens just as Christ does - Joseph said so - so how do you not know that the healing that is coming is not the result of Satan's power? I believe even if someone invokes Christ name, Satan can still be a part of it. The person is using the Lord's name in vain.

I've got to run and pick up kids - but perhaps I will return to the conversation.

Yes!... Don't quote me scripturally on this yet, but I don't believe Satan performs healings. I don't think I can find one part in the Scriptures where Satan performs something for someones benefit. He mingles things with scripture all the time to deceive us, but I don't think he heals people. He blinds them. (So ask yourself if that is a cultural belief we have passed down. Idk for sure, but I'm guessing it might be). Remember...the good tree vs the bad tree....if it's fruits are good it comes from God...if it's bad it comes from Satan....it's that simple....people mocked Christ because of the easiness of the way. He said his yoke was easy....it really is simple...but people can't believe it's that simple so they don't believe..and they are "never" saved. It's really that simple. That's what grace meant when taught by Paul. The Pharisees taught u had to do something. Works don't save...faith and belief does. People keep asking God to give them rules, so the prophets give the people what they ask for. Really he just wants us to come to Christ love others and believe that we can be resurrected like him. It's that simple. Christ will change Us. We don't have to do anything. Just believe that he has the power to change us and it actually happens. I know it seems like magic. It sounds too good to be true. I had to teach a lesson on Grace three years ago to my class in Sunday school, and I couldn't even comprehend it because I had always been taught works were essential. The church is changing its tune, but we have a lot of false beliefs to rid ourselves of ... I have always study my scriptures, but in the last year I understand them. I can comprehend them in the way I never had before, but I had to rid myself a false beliefs. These false beliefs blinded me. It's reading the Scriptures as a little child. Now I feast on the words of Christ.

[TrueIntent]

Also, you should read the history behind taking the Lords name in vain. Using the Lords name in vain is really like what the Pharisees did by pretending to be godly when their hearts were black. They became so obsessed with rules that they wouldn't even speak gods name, however they were very very wicked on the inside. So on the outside, they followed every rule...but God doesn't save people with black hearts...he saves people with soft hearts. We all essentially will bow and confess that Jesus is the Christ....but some of us pretend to do it on the outside....we are blinded by traditions and false teachings. After Christ is crucified, paul struggles with this same thing...the people want a rule list....I think that's how we may have gotten the "book of commandments"....I.e.the early addition of the d&c. It's because we asked for it. The way was too simple....that's why few find it...it seems impossible to believe.

[Mcox]

True, what exactly were the false beliefs that blinded you?

[TrueIntent]

True, what exactly were the false beliefs that blinded you?

Honestly, that I had to change myself. I was "perfect" at everything... Visiting teaching, reading my scriptures daily, family scripture study and prayer, attending the temple monthly, even serving as a temple worker, perfect mom, weekly family history....those are all works. Then I got sick...I read some of our church history over those several months when I was ill....I realized we as a latter day church contradict early teachings, and we contradict scripture...I realized prophets were men...yes doing the best they can....but they give us was we ask for. I realized the yoke of the Pharisee is a burden, heavy...and will not save me...I realized I can pay my tithing, (even extra)...but if I walk by that homeless guy on the street I am condemning myself more than if I never paid another dime to the church. I realized that Christ was the exact opposite of who I was...and the scriptures clearly taught this, but I couldn't comprehend it. I realized that I could have 100 percent visiting teaching, but that it was more important for me to take a meal to the single father next door with a handicap son than it ever was to share a spiritual message with sisters who didn't need it or didn't care. Most of all....I realized that God loves me unconditionally, and he is proud of me when I choose to do the things he commands me to do rather than submit to cultural rules that make my burden heavy and don't provide relief to those who don't need it. I realiZed that God will never manifest himself to me if I follow a "false god". It's a form of Idol worship on my part....but if I worship a true God, and come to know a true savior....he will bring me peace and joy.....and I have had immense peace and joy since walking this path.



Please we also don't take this to mean that you can't serve in the church....I am active and I serve. But it's different....I do it at the command of the spirit. I don't do visiting teaching to waist time...I do it to minister when prompted, build relationships and friendships....but never out of the checklist. I am obedient to the spirit...and my yoke is easy. When I struggle, I immediately give that struggle to the savior in the name of Christ...and I believe he will take it away, and HE DOES...it's sounds silly but I swear it's like magic...the more I do it ....the easier it becomes to believe. It's planting the seed and watching it grow. I love Jesus Christ...,I wish I had known him all along. I just thought I knew him which kept me from knowing him...weird huh.

[TrueIntent]

On a side note....someone in LDSFF taught me a "modality" for repentance.....I visualized giving my burden to the savior. Actually handing it to him. I have done that ever since, Simple right....but it's the belief I put behind it that has actually given it power. I was sooooo broken the day I begged for help and tried it, that I actually believed Jesus was going to walk into my bedroom and take it out of my hand. I did that for three days to remove my burdens....and at the end of the third day it an energy took over my body. It wasn't an instnateaous moment like alma the younger, but it was a miracle for me.

[e-eye2.0]

Satan can't perform true miracles but he imitates them. You have to understand how Satan works as he is experienced he has his own power and is very good at deceiving men. Think of Moses, think of him appearing as an angel of light, speaking in tongues a all false miracles. As for healing he has been doing this too. Today this healing is called energy healing - it's not knew just has a new name and is disguised as something else.

This is from Joseph Smith and probably one of the biggest problems in the church and for those who have left the church as I truly think many of these people believe what they are saying:

“A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects."

I see person after person bear false testimony thinking they have figured out some new doctrine, or have things figured out and have left the church or are on the road to apostasy. In a day and age where information is everywhere and knowledge is to be had on every corner there are many who are getting tripped up.

[TrueIntent]

Satan can't perform true miracles but he imitates them. You have to understand how Satan works as he is experienced he has his own power and is very good at deceiving men. Think of Moses, think of him appearing as an angel of light, speaking in tongues a all false miracles. As for healing he has been doing this too. Today this healing is called energy healing - it's not knew just has a new name and is disguised as something else.

This is from Joseph Smith and probably one of the biggest problems in the church and for those who have left the church as I truly think many of these people believe what they are saying:

“A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects."

I see person after person bear false testimony thinking they have figured out some new doctrine, or have things figured out and have left the church or are on the road to apostasy. In a day and age where information is everywhere and knowledge is to be had on every corner there are many who are getting tripped up.

I do have the gift of discernment. I asked for it about 12 years ago and God gave it to me. This is not new doctrine. It's just a modality....like a hanky, or a staff, or some clay...or whatever. And I didn't realize visualizing myself repenting to the savior could possess me by a false spirit....man in that case...we are all screwed...no one has the power to crush the serpents head with their heel.

[TrueIntent]

I would also like to add.....I was doing 99 percent of what the LDS church commanded me to do...which is more than most members can say...and I honestly did it because I thought it was what Christ wanted me to do(even disregarding councsel demo the spirit). Now I KNOW different. I was miserable. I equated suffering with my duty to God.....and there isn't anything I wouldn't have suffered for Christ. Now I know he never required that....I believe in levels of understanding. So on one level...sacrifice and obedience is required...aka...the law of Moses....then you realize that Jesus paid the price, and you move to the next level...law of Christ or following the spirit.....this is not new doctrine...but it is newer to LDS Manuels....it's all over the Book of Mormon and New Testament .....it's like the difference between David o mckays miracle of forgiveness, and uchdorfts conference talks on the savior....at some point you move on from the rules and on to the spirit. You realize God loves u unconditionally and you come to Christ because " he loved you first"

[Lizzy60]

His sheep hear His voice, and will not serve another.
We have that promise, if we are His sheep. If we are not His sheep, then Satan is our father, and it is Satan who has planted the tares among the wheat.

It really is unkind to suggest to someone that they are mistaking Satan's influence, and believing it is Christ. You may as well tell them they are doomed to hell. It's much kinder, and more Christlike, to assume that everyone is doing their best to follow Christ, even if their path is divergent from yours. Christ was breaking the Sabbath Day right and left during His ministry. Don't you think there might be a lesson in that?