Energy Healing Showdown

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Magus
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Magus »

TrueIntent: There are accounts of the power of the Adversary healing the sick. Not in the scriptures, that I'm aware of, but witch-doctors and the like using spirits or such things to perform a miracle. This might be Mormon myth but I heard a story once of someone on a mission who was healed by a witch-doctor, may have been in the Phillipines or something....when the mission president heard about it, he said it was of the devil, performed an exorcism on the person and the person got sick again, and then he peformed a priesthood blessing and the person was then healed through the priesthood.

JohnnyL:
I agree - I kind of get the feeling that a lot of people in this thread are no different from the average member of the Church - no special spirit of discernment with them, no special knowledge gained through objective study or experience - but a lot of people who mean well who are nevertheless prejudiced against such things in an almost superstitious way because they have been given a certain interpretation of a doctrine, they have bought it dogmatically, and by golly, they're going to hang on to it and not dare consider anything else. In a word - closed-minded.

I feel like we have both brought up reasonable arguments that make energy healing (and for that matter, other things such as the use of gemstones or astrology) , in an appropriate context, seem at the very least to be plausible as an acceptable practice. I don't feel like anyone has refuted our points at all - and believe me, I look for refutation because I very much want to be objective and I very much do NOT want to be deceived and do NOT want to be against the Lord on this matter. Not at all. It's not like I'm sitting here looking for any way I can to get away with something that I know deep down is against the Lord's will.

Yes, we should be wary of people who go around saying they have discovered new or secret doctrines. Absolutely.

But...

At the same time, there is so much helpful truth out there that is not talked about on Sunday or in Church manuals or specifically in the 4 standard works. And after all, according to Brigham Young - all truth belongs to Mormonism and is claimed by the Lord.

Furthermore, there ARE, in a sense, "new" and or "secret" teachings or understandings that will belong to the Lord. The Second Anointing (getting your calling and election made sure) is one of them. It's an entirely different level of spiritual understanding. I would say that ANY insight into the kingdom of God, any vision given of God to an individual, is going to bear profound truths that your average Joe Mormon has not experienced or understood in any comprehensible way. And certainly the wisdom that comes from heaven and sheds forth into the minds of those who seek and thirst after more and more truth and knowledge is going to be something you aren't necessarily taught about in Sunday School or that the average obedient yet closed-minded and disinterested member of the Church is going to receive - or understand. Or accept as truth.

Why, they might even call it apostasy. Or the spirit of the Devil. Yet they do so not from a place of spiritual discernment, but because it THREATENS the comfort of their carnal security which comes from their dogmatic, unthinking, unseeking and self-satisfied approach towards religion and spirituality.

This isn't an accusation towards anyone in this thread, as I'm not qualified to make that judgment - but I do think it exists and I do think it's something to think about.

I'm open to energy healing, crystals, astrology, clairvoyance and psychic power, and even, maybe, what people call "magick." I think there are good and bad instances in which they can be used. I think the power of God and the power of the Devil are everywhere at all times. I think what matters is what power you tap into, which will depend upon your intent and upon the spirit of discernment.

I don't claim to have the spirit of discernment on these matters. I don't think many, if any, of you do either. Perhaps some have been prompted by the Holy Ghost to say one thing or another, perhaps not. I can't tell. But I think the great lesson here is that while we can debate all of this all day long, getting and obtaining the spirit of discernment is ultimately what matters - yes?

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TrueIntent
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by TrueIntent »

Magus wrote:TrueIntent: There are accounts of the power of the Adversary healing the sick. Not in the scriptures, that I'm aware of, but witch-doctors and the like using spirits or such things to perform a miracle. This might be Mormon myth but I heard a story once of someone on a mission who was healed by a witch-doctor, may have been in the Phillipines or something....when the mission president heard about it, he said it was of the devil, performed an exorcism on the person and the person got sick again, and then he peformed a priesthood blessing and the person was then healed through the priesthood.

JohnnyL:
I agree - I kind of get the feeling that a lot of people in this thread are no different from the average member of the Church - no special spirit of discernment with them, no special knowledge gained through objective study or experience - but a lot of people who mean well who are nevertheless prejudiced against such things in an almost superstitious way because they have been given a certain interpretation of a doctrine, they have bought it dogmatically, and by golly, they're going to hang on to it and not dare consider anything else. In a word - closed-minded.

I feel like we have both brought up reasonable arguments that make energy healing (and for that matter, other things such as the use of gemstones or astrology) , in an appropriate context, seem at the very least to be plausible as an acceptable practice. I don't feel like anyone has refuted our points at all - and believe me, I look for refutation because I very much want to be objective and I very much do NOT want to be deceived and do NOT want to be against the Lord on this matter. Not at all. It's not like I'm sitting here looking for any way I can to get away with something that I know deep down is against the Lord's will.

Yes, we should be wary of people who go around saying they have discovered new or secret doctrines. Absolutely.

But...

At the same time, there is so much helpful truth out there that is not talked about on Sunday or in Church manuals or specifically in the 4 standard works. And after all, according to Brigham Young - all truth belongs to Mormonism and is claimed by the Lord.

Furthermore, there ARE, in a sense, "new" and or "secret" teachings or understandings that will belong to the Lord. The Second Anointing (getting your calling and election made sure) is one of them. It's an entirely different level of spiritual understanding. I would say that ANY insight into the kingdom of God, any vision given of God to an individual, is going to bear profound truths that your average Joe Mormon has not experienced or understood in any comprehensible way. And certainly the wisdom that comes from heaven and sheds forth into the minds of those who seek and thirst after more and more truth and knowledge is going to be something you aren't necessarily taught about in Sunday School or that the average obedient yet closed-minded and disinterested member of the Church is going to receive - or understand. Or accept as truth.

Why, they might even call it apostasy. Or the spirit of the Devil. Yet they do so not from a place of spiritual discernment, but because it THREATENS the comfort of their carnal security which comes from their dogmatic, unthinking, unseeking and self-satisfied approach towards religion and spirituality.

This isn't an accusation towards anyone in this thread, as I'm not qualified to make that judgment - but I do think it exists and I do think it's something to think about.

I'm open to energy healing, crystals, astrology, clairvoyance and psychic power, and even, maybe, what people call "magick." I think there are good and bad instances in which they can be used. I think the power of God and the power of the Devil are everywhere at all times. I think what matters is what power you tap into, which will depend upon your intent and upon the spirit of discernment.

I don't claim to have the spirit of discernment on these matters. I don't think many, if any, of you do either. Perhaps some have been prompted by the Holy Ghost to say one thing or another, perhaps not. I can't tell. But I think the great lesson here is that while we can debate all of this all day long, getting and obtaining the spirit of discernment is ultimately what matters - yes?
Absolutely, we should confirm it with the spirit. Once again, I think you will find many of these false beliefs are tradition...I.e. Passed down from mission presidents:-)....it perverts the true gospel of Christ. As for astrology....Joseph smith wore a Jupiter talisman...it had astrological symbols in it....ever heard of solomons temple in the scriptures...same thing.....do a scripture search of "casting lots". Christ's apostles did it. And people in the Book of Mormon too. I heard a talk once that compared casting lots to drawing straws....it's way more than that....it's like "reading tarot cards...look it up..the salt lake temple has a constallation on it....it's rich in all elements of religious history. Btw....based on your mission presidents story..,they could of gotten sick again because of unbelief because they were convinced of What's your mission president said, and then they believed again when you gave him a blessing. The healing was based on their faith. I challenge you to open your mind, and on harden your heart . It doesn't affect me if you believe or not. You don't know our history. Btw...I do claim the spirit of discernment.


On a sidenote, I believe all these tools can be used by the adversary and by Christ. Which is why you will see both groups of people using them, wheat and tears. But only the power of Christ performs healing according to my knowledge

e-eye2.0
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Posts: 454

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by e-eye2.0 »

TrueIntent wrote:
e-eye2.0 wrote:Satan can't perform true miracles but he imitates them. You have to understand how Satan works as he is experienced he has his own power and is very good at deceiving men. Think of Moses, think of him appearing as an angel of light, speaking in tongues a all false miracles. As for healing he has been doing this too. Today this healing is called energy healing - it's not knew just has a new name and is disguised as something else.

This is from Joseph Smith and probably one of the biggest problems in the church and for those who have left the church as I truly think many of these people believe what they are saying:

“A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects."

I see person after person bear false testimony thinking they have figured out some new doctrine, or have things figured out and have left the church or are on the road to apostasy. In a day and age where information is everywhere and knowledge is to be had on every corner there are many who are getting tripped up.
I want to add....I think you are proving my point....he does things to deceive us. But I don't think he ever heals us. He will appear as an angel of light to get us to do all kinds of crazy stuff that won't give us salvation. But he won't heal us, give us joy, peace...etc....I can think of no scriptural references where he does this. I think this is a false teaching. I think we as a culture use it so that we can justify the authority/power complex. So that we can say when other healings occur it wasn't done by God. I actually remember believing this in my youth so I'm sure I was taught it. I dismiss it now....it doesn't feel right....but I am open to pondering it if someone can show me some scriptural references when Satan heals us....I know he can use "wonders" , or turn a staff into a snake...etc....but heal???? I don't believe that he does that. He posesses us and so do spirits that follow him...to blind us and make us miserable...but healing us and casting him out is what Christ does.
I read a story (not sure if it was here) about a person being healed or cured by energy healing. The person healed shared this healing to a priesthood holder and the priesthood holder knew it was not of God cast out the evil spirit that was in the person, and the sickness returned. Does Satan have this power and would he heal for his own gain - yes. Satan would heal someone to deceive them. As for the LDS church and if we think Satan has the power to heal we actually do. From Gospel Principles:

"Satan can imitate the gifts of tongues, prophecy, visions, healings, and other miracles. Moses had to compete with Satan’s imitations in Pharaoh’s court (see Exodus 7:8–22). Satan wants us to believe in his false prophets, false healers, and false miracle workers. They may appear to be so real to us that the only way to know is to ask God for the gift of discernment. The devil himself can appear as an angel of light (see 2 Nephi 9:9).

Satan wants to blind us to the truth and keep us from seeking the true gifts of the Spirit. Mediums, astrologers, fortune tellers, and sorcerers are inspired by Satan even if they claim to follow God. Their works are abominable to the Lord (see Isaiah 47:12–14; Deuteronomy 18:9–10). We should avoid all associations with the powers of Satan."

I am not just here against energy healing because I have nothing better to do, but because I have a sister who is entrenched in this practice. She started out healing in the name of Christ now she is on the opposite end where she heals but doesn't even believe in Christ. I saw my parents get into this by some degree and left the church. It's dangerous. Satan will pull some out of the church others he will be more subtle. Is everyone going to lose faith in Christ if they practice energy healing - no. Does the church caution members to stay away from it - yes they do.

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Sarah
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Sarah »

My sister also left the Church, but not from getting into Energy Healing, but because when she had her born again "I'm saved" experience, she was healed of her depression and eating disorder. Whatever spirit now was influencing her persuaded her that Christ was not in the LDS Church etc. What do you think was causing her health and mental issues in the first place? That's right - evil spirits. So of course they would stop afflicting her if they could persuade her to believe everything in the Church was wrong, and she would be the means of leading other people out. That is exactly what she has done.

My Dad grew up Catholic, and his parents took him as a child to a hypnotist. He was cured from his allergies. Does this make hypnotism good? No.

As beehives we had a sleepover where someone tried to hypnotize all of us and it definitely invited an evil presence, so much so that the mom felt inspired that something was wrong and came down to stop whatever we were doing. Do I believe it was the power of Christ that healed my Dad? No, I think most likely it was the power of Satan or evil spirits, trying to get people to depend on hypnotists and lead them to do follow any other path but the right one.

We have to remember that healing the physical body is a great thing, but it is not going to save us. Spiritual healing is most important.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by TrueIntent »

e-eye2.0 wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
e-eye2.0 wrote:Satan can't perform true miracles but he imitates them. You have to understand how Satan works as he is experienced he has his own power and is very good at deceiving men. Think of Moses, think of him appearing as an angel of light, speaking in tongues a all false miracles. As for healing he has been doing this too. Today this healing is called energy healing - it's not knew just has a new name and is disguised as something else.

This is from Joseph Smith and probably one of the biggest problems in the church and for those who have left the church as I truly think many of these people believe what they are saying:

“A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects."

I see person after person bear false testimony thinking they have figured out some new doctrine, or have things figured out and have left the church or are on the road to apostasy. In a day and age where information is everywhere and knowledge is to be had on every corner there are many who are getting tripped up.
I want to add....I think you are proving my point....he does things to deceive us. But I don't think he ever heals us. He will appear as an angel of light to get us to do all kinds of crazy stuff that won't give us salvation. But he won't heal us, give us joy, peace...etc....I can think of no scriptural references where he does this. I think this is a false teaching. I think we as a culture use it so that we can justify the authority/power complex. So that we can say when other healings occur it wasn't done by God. I actually remember believing this in my youth so I'm sure I was taught it. I dismiss it now....it doesn't feel right....but I am open to pondering it if someone can show me some scriptural references when Satan heals us....I know he can use "wonders" , or turn a staff into a snake...etc....but heal???? I don't believe that he does that. He posesses us and so do spirits that follow him...to blind us and make us miserable...but healing us and casting him out is what Christ does.
I read a story (not sure if it was here) about a person being healed or cured by energy healing. The person healed shared this healing to a priesthood holder and the priesthood holder knew it was not of God cast out the evil spirit that was in the person, and the sickness returned. Does Satan have this power and would he heal for his own gain - yes. Satan would heal someone to deceive them. As for the LDS church and if we think Satan has the power to heal we actually do. From Gospel Principles:

"Satan can imitate the gifts of tongues, prophecy, visions, healings, and other miracles. Moses had to compete with Satan’s imitations in Pharaoh’s court (see Exodus 7:8–22). Satan wants us to believe in his false prophets, false healers, and false miracle workers. They may appear to be so real to us that the only way to know is to ask God for the gift of discernment. The devil himself can appear as an angel of light (see 2 Nephi 9:9).

Satan wants to blind us to the truth and keep us from seeking the true gifts of the Spirit. Mediums, astrologers, fortune tellers, and sorcerers are inspired by Satan even if they claim to follow God. Their works are abominable to the Lord (see Isaiah 47:12–14; Deuteronomy 18:9–10). We should avoid all associations with the powers of Satan."

I am not just here against energy healing because I have nothing better to do, but because I have a sister who is entrenched in this practice. She started out healing in the name of Christ now she is on the opposite end where she heals but doesn't even believe in Christ. I saw my parents get into this by some degree and left the church. It's dangerous. Satan will pull some out of the church others he will be more subtle. Is everyone going to lose faith in Christ if they practice energy healing - no. Does the church caution members to stay away from it - yes they do.
You keep proving my point. There were no healings in Pharohs court and yet they are using it as a reference. This is a false tradition we pass down in our church like the Pharisees. Believe it or not....LDs.org has been wrong and had to make corrections...even on their interpretations in the scriptures. Look it up....it appears this maybe another correction that needs to be made.

Btw...what do prophets do? They prophesy of future events....fortell the future...like a fortune teller. The modality is the same....seer stone or crystal ball (see definition of scrying)....the spirit of influence is what is different....Satan deceives...Christ doesn't. Christ performs hearings....if you can show me scriptures....actual scriptures.....that tell otherwise...I will totally change my mind.....good fruit...good tree...bad fruit bad tree....it's easy. It's simple...all can comprehend.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by TrueIntent »

Sarah wrote:My sister also left the Church, but not from getting into Energy Healing, but because when she had her born again "I'm saved" experience, she was healed of her depression and eating disorder. Whatever spirit now was influencing her persuaded her that Christ was not in the LDS Church etc. What do you think was causing her health and mental issues in the first place? That's right - evil spirits. So of course they would stop afflicting her if they could persuade her to believe everything in the Church was wrong, and she would be the means of leading other people out. That is exactly what she has done.

My Dad grew up Catholic, and his parents took him as a child to a hypnotist. He was cured from his allergies. Does this make hypnotism good? No.

As beehives we had a sleepover where someone tried to hypnotize all of us and it definitely invited an evil presence, so much so that the mom felt inspired that something was wrong and came down to stop whatever we were doing. Do I believe it was the power of Christ that healed my Dad? No, I think most likely it was the power of Satan or evil spirits, trying to get people to depend on hypnotists and lead them to do follow any other path but the right one.

We have to remember that healing the physical body is a great thing, but it is not going to save us. Spiritual healing is most important.

This is going to bother you because you have been taught that "works" save,,.but your sister is saved. She did find Jesus. Remember...modalities don't matter...the fruit of it does. Meaning....the intention behind it will affect what fruit the modality produces. We're your friends hypnotizing to control???. Who tries to control people....Satan? Open your heart...not your head. Feel what I am trying to teach you.

e-eye2.0
captain of 100
Posts: 454

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by e-eye2.0 »

TrueIntent wrote:
e-eye2.0 wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
e-eye2.0 wrote:Satan can't perform true miracles but he imitates them. You have to understand how Satan works as he is experienced he has his own power and is very good at deceiving men. Think of Moses, think of him appearing as an angel of light, speaking in tongues a all false miracles. As for healing he has been doing this too. Today this healing is called energy healing - it's not knew just has a new name and is disguised as something else.

This is from Joseph Smith and probably one of the biggest problems in the church and for those who have left the church as I truly think many of these people believe what they are saying:

“A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects."

I see person after person bear false testimony thinking they have figured out some new doctrine, or have things figured out and have left the church or are on the road to apostasy. In a day and age where information is everywhere and knowledge is to be had on every corner there are many who are getting tripped up.
I want to add....I think you are proving my point....he does things to deceive us. But I don't think he ever heals us. He will appear as an angel of light to get us to do all kinds of crazy stuff that won't give us salvation. But he won't heal us, give us joy, peace...etc....I can think of no scriptural references where he does this. I think this is a false teaching. I think we as a culture use it so that we can justify the authority/power complex. So that we can say when other healings occur it wasn't done by God. I actually remember believing this in my youth so I'm sure I was taught it. I dismiss it now....it doesn't feel right....but I am open to pondering it if someone can show me some scriptural references when Satan heals us....I know he can use "wonders" , or turn a staff into a snake...etc....but heal???? I don't believe that he does that. He posesses us and so do spirits that follow him...to blind us and make us miserable...but healing us and casting him out is what Christ does.
I read a story (not sure if it was here) about a person being healed or cured by energy healing. The person healed shared this healing to a priesthood holder and the priesthood holder knew it was not of God cast out the evil spirit that was in the person, and the sickness returned. Does Satan have this power and would he heal for his own gain - yes. Satan would heal someone to deceive them. As for the LDS church and if we think Satan has the power to heal we actually do. From Gospel Principles:

"Satan can imitate the gifts of tongues, prophecy, visions, healings, and other miracles. Moses had to compete with Satan’s imitations in Pharaoh’s court (see Exodus 7:8–22). Satan wants us to believe in his false prophets, false healers, and false miracle workers. They may appear to be so real to us that the only way to know is to ask God for the gift of discernment. The devil himself can appear as an angel of light (see 2 Nephi 9:9).

Satan wants to blind us to the truth and keep us from seeking the true gifts of the Spirit. Mediums, astrologers, fortune tellers, and sorcerers are inspired by Satan even if they claim to follow God. Their works are abominable to the Lord (see Isaiah 47:12–14; Deuteronomy 18:9–10). We should avoid all associations with the powers of Satan."

I am not just here against energy healing because I have nothing better to do, but because I have a sister who is entrenched in this practice. She started out healing in the name of Christ now she is on the opposite end where she heals but doesn't even believe in Christ. I saw my parents get into this by some degree and left the church. It's dangerous. Satan will pull some out of the church others he will be more subtle. Is everyone going to lose faith in Christ if they practice energy healing - no. Does the church caution members to stay away from it - yes they do.
You keep proving my point. There were no healings in Pharohs court and yet they are using it as a reference. This is a false tradition we pass down in our church like the Pharisees. Believe it or not....LDs.org has been wrong and had to make corrections...even on their interpretations in the scriptures. Look it up....it appears this maybe another correction that needs to be made.

Btw...what do prophets do? They prophesy of future events....fortell the future...like a fortune teller. The modality is the same....seer stone or crystal ball (see definition of scrying)....the spirit of influence is what is different....Satan deceives...Christ doesn't. Christ performs hearings....if you can show me scriptures....actual scriptures.....that tell otherwise...I will totally change my mind.....good fruit...good tree...bad fruit bad tree....it's easy. It's simple...all can comprehend.
TruIntent - So are you saying all healing comes from God and is good?

plainness
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Posts: 106

Authority and Power.

Post by plainness »

Satan cannot perform miracles. He can only perform false miracles.

Ask people who have encountered withcraft. The devil ONLY steals, kills and destroys. Should he cause a tumor to vanish, be sure the tumor will resurface with multiplied vengeance after the deception has served its purpose.

The devil curses. Only and always. His displays of power, his imitations of the miraculous do not have fidelity. They also manifest at great cost to the target individuals and communities who are leveraged or who execute these false miracles.

Paul says without signs and wonders, the Gospel is not fully preached.

Reiki and chakra is as silly or as dangerous as wooden, institutional authority. LDS priesthood blessings are often full of sentiment and emotional validation. These are at least as harmful as energy healing, though well-intended and meek.

A common deception among the LDS, due to the general woodenness of the sum of our spirituality, is to be intruiged by anything that appears numinous. Observe the faithful, complaint and steady LDS who line up to get New Age Intuitive advice from alternative voices. Ironically, these voices are often more relationally earnest than church leaders, despite their indifference to Christ.

On the other hand, we also notice how threatened the loyal LDS members are by dynamic and powerful faith-exploits among mere Christians. Because our authority rhetoric is so fetished and top-heavy that is vulnerable to the actual nature of God and the reality of His power.

By default, LDS authority is rarely manifested as power. Executive, organizational power, perhaps. Or ceremonial permission. But rarely the "signs and wonders" that qualify a fully preached Gospel.

There are still a large cross section of LDS people who don't think miracles ought to be ubiquitous, prolific, abundant. They think that miracles are hush hush, only to be relayed as family anecdotes. Only quotable if used in an official publication. As if only available where optimum and rare conditions have converged, like the way rare weather phenomena occur.

LDS people seem to think that only when a critical mass of active members pay tithing, fast offerings, perform regular family home evenings, limit their Sunday distractions, and focus more heavily upon the General Authorities that the miraculous can begin to occur. I've noticed this sentiment expressed as the general explanation for the mundane display of LDS faith. Because we are not obedient, meaning, not compliant to the programs.

Enjoy this re-post of a very basic demonstration of Love and Power. Any MAN, BOY, WOMAN or GIRL ought to have the faith in Christ to impart this kind of miracle to anyone at any moment. Even at their own initiative. If they know Jesus:

http://youtu.be/n16pMWokkuQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Allow yourself to manifest this kind of faith, and you will naturally fall into the path of intimacy with Jesus.

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Sarah
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6703

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Sarah »

TrueIntent wrote:
Sarah wrote:My sister also left the Church, but not from getting into Energy Healing, but because when she had her born again "I'm saved" experience, she was healed of her depression and eating disorder. Whatever spirit now was influencing her persuaded her that Christ was not in the LDS Church etc. What do you think was causing her health and mental issues in the first place? That's right - evil spirits. So of course they would stop afflicting her if they could persuade her to believe everything in the Church was wrong, and she would be the means of leading other people out. That is exactly what she has done.

My Dad grew up Catholic, and his parents took him as a child to a hypnotist. He was cured from his allergies. Does this make hypnotism good? No.

As beehives we had a sleepover where someone tried to hypnotize all of us and it definitely invited an evil presence, so much so that the mom felt inspired that something was wrong and came down to stop whatever we were doing. Do I believe it was the power of Christ that healed my Dad? No, I think most likely it was the power of Satan or evil spirits, trying to get people to depend on hypnotists and lead them to do follow any other path but the right one.

We have to remember that healing the physical body is a great thing, but it is not going to save us. Spiritual healing is most important.

This is going to bother you because you have been taught that "works" save,,.but your sister is saved. She did find Jesus. Remember...modalities don't matter...the fruit of it does. Meaning....the intention behind it will affect what fruit the modality produces. We're your friends hypnotizing to control???. Who tries to control people....Satan? Open your heart...not your head. Feel what I am trying to teach you.
Yes, I have been taught that works save in conjunction with grace. Grace is activated when you exercise the works of faith, baptism, repentance, receiving the Holy Ghost, enduring to the end. Christ wants to be sealed to all of us and we do that by making sacred covenants which include all the covenants of the temple. My sister not only forsook her birthright blessings, she has rejected the fullness of the Christ's gospel, and the Church which he leads, and you say that she has found Jesus? Wow.

I don't understand how you can make a claim that just because someone has good intentions, the fruit appears to be good, he or she cannot be tricked. You are denying that Satan can deceive people. And we all know he is a liar from the beginning. That is what he does really well, he tricks, deceives, leads people away with flaxen cords.

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TrueIntent
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Posts: 974

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by TrueIntent »

Sarah wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
Sarah wrote:My sister also left the Church, but not from getting into Energy Healing, but because when she had her born again "I'm saved" experience, she was healed of her depression and eating disorder. Whatever spirit now was influencing her persuaded her that Christ was not in the LDS Church etc. What do you think was causing her health and mental issues in the first place? That's right - evil spirits. So of course they would stop afflicting her if they could persuade her to believe everything in the Church was wrong, and she would be the means of leading other people out. That is exactly what she has done.

My Dad grew up Catholic, and his parents took him as a child to a hypnotist. He was cured from his allergies. Does this make hypnotism good? No.

As beehives we had a sleepover where someone tried to hypnotize all of us and it definitely invited an evil presence, so much so that the mom felt inspired that something was wrong and came down to stop whatever we were doing. Do I believe it was the power of Christ that healed my Dad? No, I think most likely it was the power of Satan or evil spirits, trying to get people to depend on hypnotists and lead them to do follow any other path but the right one.

We have to remember that healing the physical body is a great thing, but it is not going to save us. Spiritual healing is most important.

This is going to bother you because you have been taught that "works" save,,.but your sister is saved. She did find Jesus. Remember...modalities don't matter...the fruit of it does. Meaning....the intention behind it will affect what fruit the modality produces. We're your friends hypnotizing to control???. Who tries to control people....Satan? Open your heart...not your head. Feel what I am trying to teach you.
Yes, I have been taught that works save in conjunction with grace. Grace is activated when you exercise the works of faith, baptism, repentance, receiving the Holy Ghost, enduring to the end. Christ wants to be sealed to all of us and we do that by making sacred covenants which include all the covenants of the temple. My sister not only forsook her birthright blessings, she has rejected the fullness of the Christ's gospel, and the Church which he leads, and you say that she has found Jesus? Wow.

I don't understand how you can make a claim that just because someone has good intentions, the fruit appears to be good, he or she cannot be tricked. You are denying that Satan can deceive people. And we all know he is a liar from the beginning. That is what he does really well, he tricks, deceives, leads people away with flaxen cords.

Hmmm....I think I'm done here. I wish you the best on your path. It was a great conversation though. I hope I planted some seeds.

JohnnyL
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

My relative left the church after getting married. Is marriage of Satan?
A girl in our ward left the church after attending BYU. Is BYU of Satan?
I could go on and on...
Are those causations, or correlations? Many of you are assuming they are all causations.

Like if "she" had never met "him", she would have been active, been married in the temple, had a great family, etc., instead of becoming apostate, sleeping around with many guys, etc. Sometimes it's true; sometimes it has little to do with "that guy", and almost everything to do with "her".

I have no doubt many people are not meant to understand or be healers/ have the gift(s) of healing.

A missionary left the church after having sex with a woman he met. Is sex of Satan?
Nor is it right at every time in one's life to learn it. That is the same with about everything in life.

There is a difference between what someone teaches/preaches, and what and how they do it.

I don't agree with anti-EHers, nor with many EHers about some things (speaking EH only).

There are plenty of powerful and wonderful EH ways to heal.

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Magus
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Magus »

Just putting this out there:

http://www.ldsliving.com/Joseph-Smith-H ... It/s/83084" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the article:
Joseph then explained “that every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness, and most of those who do find one make an evil use of it.”
Proof that Joseph Smith says every man should have a seer stone, but that seer stones can be used for both good or evil depending upon the individual making use of them.

That same concept can feasibly apply to things like energy healing/astrology/other stuff.

DesertWonderer
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by DesertWonderer »

Magus wrote:Just putting this out there:

http://www.ldsliving.com/Joseph-Smith-H ... It/s/83084" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the article:
Joseph then explained “that every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness, and most of those who do find one make an evil use of it.”
Proof that Joseph Smith says every man should have a seer stone, but that seer stones can be used for both good or evil depending upon the individual making use of them.

That same concept can feasibly apply to things like energy healing/astrology/other stuff.
ummm...No but thanks for playing.

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mirkwood
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by mirkwood »

I guess I can create a pentagram for summoning angels to speak with too.

JohnnyL
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

mirkwood wrote:I guess I can create a pentagram for summoning angels to speak with too.
You could, but I doubt it would work.

JohnnyL
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

DesertWonderer wrote:
Magus wrote:Just putting this out there:

http://www.ldsliving.com/Joseph-Smith-H ... It/s/83084" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the article:
Joseph then explained “that every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness, and most of those who do find one make an evil use of it.”
Proof that Joseph Smith says every man should have a seer stone, but that seer stones can be used for both good or evil depending upon the individual making use of them.

That same concept can feasibly apply to things like energy healing/astrology/other stuff.
ummm...No but thanks for playing.
"Right. Cause JS isn't good enough for me."

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Magus
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Magus »

mirkwood wrote:I guess I can create a pentagram for summoning angels to speak with too.
Theroetically, I see no reason why you couldn't. The pentagram is a symbol that has been used for thousands of years and is also part of the seal of King Solomon. Inverted or right side up, it means many things to many people. Seeing that the Aaronic priesthood make the person entitled to the ministering of angels - if you really needed an angel, and you had the faith and the determination - I can't see any reason why God would absolutely forbear you from having that experience.

Do you know how the Testimony of the Three Witnesses came about? They essentially called for an angel to appear through intense, faithful and sincere prayer. "Summoning" if you will.

I'm just guessing, but I'm guessing the difference between people like me and JohnnyL and people like you is maybe that we believe that the power of God/the divine supernatural to perform miracles is here, now, in our daily lives, and that we have access to it and that we have good reason to seek it and have it become as much a part of our lives as possible.

Maybe you don't see a reason for it. Maybe you're content with "going to church, saying your prayers, reading your scriptures, listening to general conference." Those are all great and necessary things. But I can't help but be reminded of the verse in 2nd Nephi that goes "A Bible! A Bible! We have a Bible and need no more Bible!" Because you could easily go "A seerstone! A seerstone! We have a prophet and need no more seerstones!"

Joseph Smith - the Prophet of the Restoration - said every man is entitled to one if he is righteous enough.

So obviously there's more available to us, and that would be good for us, than the basic, standardized things that every member of the Church in good standing does.

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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

Magus wrote:TrueIntent: There are accounts of the power of the Adversary healing the sick. Not in the scriptures, that I'm aware of, but witch-doctors and the like using spirits or such things to perform a miracle. This might be Mormon myth but I heard a story once of someone on a mission who was healed by a witch-doctor, may have been in the Phillipines or something....when the mission president heard about it, he said it was of the devil, performed an exorcism on the person and the person got sick again, and then he peformed a priesthood blessing and the person was then healed through the priesthood.

JohnnyL:
I agree - I kind of get the feeling that a lot of people in this thread are no different from the average member of the Church - no special spirit of discernment with them, no special knowledge gained through objective study or experience - but a lot of people who mean well who are nevertheless prejudiced against such things in an almost superstitious way because they have been given a certain interpretation of a doctrine, they have bought it dogmatically, and by golly, they're going to hang on to it and not dare consider anything else. In a word - closed-minded.

I feel like we have both brought up reasonable arguments that make energy healing (and for that matter, other things such as the use of gemstones or astrology) , in an appropriate context, seem at the very least to be plausible as an acceptable practice. I don't feel like anyone has refuted our points at all - and believe me, I look for refutation because I very much want to be objective and I very much do NOT want to be deceived and do NOT want to be against the Lord on this matter. Not at all. It's not like I'm sitting here looking for any way I can to get away with something that I know deep down is against the Lord's will.

Yes, we should be wary of people who go around saying they have discovered new or secret doctrines. Absolutely.

But...

At the same time, there is so much helpful truth out there that is not talked about on Sunday or in Church manuals or specifically in the 4 standard works. And after all, according to Brigham Young - all truth belongs to Mormonism and is claimed by the Lord.

Furthermore, there ARE, in a sense, "new" and or "secret" teachings or understandings that will belong to the Lord. The Second Anointing (getting your calling and election made sure) is one of them. It's an entirely different level of spiritual understanding. I would say that ANY insight into the kingdom of God, any vision given of God to an individual, is going to bear profound truths that your average Joe Mormon has not experienced or understood in any comprehensible way. And certainly the wisdom that comes from heaven and sheds forth into the minds of those who seek and thirst after more and more truth and knowledge is going to be something you aren't necessarily taught about in Sunday School or that the average obedient yet closed-minded and disinterested member of the Church is going to receive - or understand. Or accept as truth.

Why, they might even call it apostasy. Or the spirit of the Devil. Yet they do so not from a place of spiritual discernment, but because it THREATENS the comfort of their carnal security which comes from their dogmatic, unthinking, unseeking and self-satisfied approach towards religion and spirituality.

This isn't an accusation towards anyone in this thread, as I'm not qualified to make that judgment - but I do think it exists and I do think it's something to think about.

I'm open to energy healing, crystals, astrology, clairvoyance and psychic power, and even, maybe, what people call "magick." I think there are good and bad instances in which they can be used. I think the power of God and the power of the Devil are everywhere at all times. I think what matters is what power you tap into, which will depend upon your intent and upon the spirit of discernment.

I don't claim to have the spirit of discernment on these matters. I don't think many, if any, of you do either. Perhaps some have been prompted by the Holy Ghost to say one thing or another, perhaps not. I can't tell. But I think the great lesson here is that while we can debate all of this all day long, getting and obtaining the spirit of discernment is ultimately what matters - yes?
Philippines? No, it was somewhere in SA--at least, that's what my version of the myth said, lol. And it could be possible, and there is that type of thing. But in general, it's the spirit of man (natural laws), not the spirit of the devil. (Jesus asked about a house divided against itself.)

But as always--and here is the biggest manifestation of their ignorance: every anti-EH groups all EHers and their work together, then cherry picks a part, then generalizes it to everything else. EXCEPT, of course, their own Western medicine, psychology, etc.; or in other words, their own accepted paradigm. I don't know if they are just completely blind, or if they do it intentionally. I know that when they can't answer the plethora of questions asked, they just "move on" to the next nonsense. Of course, each has different boundaries to their box, just like we all do. There is definitely brainwashing/ thought control going on, and it doesn't matter where it comes from now, as long as it supports their paradigm, they'll eat it up. Search for truth? Nah. No desire to have it. Which is ok for some at certain times; but they're not content with just remaining ignorant themselves--they want others to remain ignorant, also; and if others don't, they become angry and accusatory.

Where are they now? They throw up any scripture or quote that MIGHT somehow REMOTELY be able to mean SOMEthing that THEY PERSONALLY want it to mean (at least in their own minds). They come up with completely irrelevant writings; they try to obfuscate anything and everything; they twist words and arguments; and when all else fails, use personal attacks, or quips that show they really are witty (even if they are ignorant).

When someone claims discernment, but has not just ignorance but the spirit of ignorance, I know they are not being led by the Spirit. And unfortunately, that often extends to other parts of their lives, too. As pointed out, anti-EHers cannot accept so many things, but think nothing about church history or the gospel: Spirit guided writing and seeking device, seeing rocks, translation rocks, magical living branches used to perform miracles, multiplying food, walking on water, magical transporting bread that disappears from one spot and appears many many miles away, and soooo much more. HOW CAN THESE OCCUR, unless there is a NATURAL law that allows them to occur? They can't. God uses "natural laws" to work, and so do we!! After all the manual quotes on this over the years, somehow anti-EHers still don't understand. They likely still believe that miracles and the priesthood work on Godly/magical laws.

Why? Because then they would have to admit there are natural laws we don't have much of a clue about, or we do--but we got those clues from ignorant crazy lunatics. When much of the world thinks differently than them even in the "accepted" things, those people are ignorant crazy lunatics. Quotes from anyone, contrary to what is "accepted", are rejected without contemplation (except for trying to show how they are wrong). Don't assume that because we can't understand something, it cannot be understood. Bishop Davies talk. They likely still believe that the only way to access those natural laws is through God or Satan.

It's the same spirit that disallows, in general, the Spirit. There is a disconnect between reality and religion/ belief. (Like a relative who tried to maim someone multiple times on Saturday, then partook of the sacrament on Sunday, without any connection between the two days and two actions.) They are unable to yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit if it pushed them outside their box. Not only is there an allergy towards EH, but an allergy to anything outside of their paradigm. And there are soooooooooo many truths outside not just their box, but the mainstream box. Forget that they have forgotten they are already outside the mainstream box, that they already carry the label of "ignorant crazy lunatic" from the world.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by TrueIntent »

i came across this today....do you guys realize you quote the Pharisees speaking to Christ?????????? The blind can't see.

22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw.
23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, "This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons."

Finrock
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Posts: 4426

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Finrock »

Sarah wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
Sarah wrote:My sister also left the Church, but not from getting into Energy Healing, but because when she had her born again "I'm saved" experience, she was healed of her depression and eating disorder. Whatever spirit now was influencing her persuaded her that Christ was not in the LDS Church etc. What do you think was causing her health and mental issues in the first place? That's right - evil spirits. So of course they would stop afflicting her if they could persuade her to believe everything in the Church was wrong, and she would be the means of leading other people out. That is exactly what she has done.

My Dad grew up Catholic, and his parents took him as a child to a hypnotist. He was cured from his allergies. Does this make hypnotism good? No.

As beehives we had a sleepover where someone tried to hypnotize all of us and it definitely invited an evil presence, so much so that the mom felt inspired that something was wrong and came down to stop whatever we were doing. Do I believe it was the power of Christ that healed my Dad? No, I think most likely it was the power of Satan or evil spirits, trying to get people to depend on hypnotists and lead them to do follow any other path but the right one.

We have to remember that healing the physical body is a great thing, but it is not going to save us. Spiritual healing is most important.

This is going to bother you because you have been taught that "works" save,,.but your sister is saved. She did find Jesus. Remember...modalities don't matter...the fruit of it does. Meaning....the intention behind it will affect what fruit the modality produces. We're your friends hypnotizing to control???. Who tries to control people....Satan? Open your heart...not your head. Feel what I am trying to teach you.
Yes, I have been taught that works save in conjunction with grace. Grace is activated when you exercise the works of faith, baptism, repentance, receiving the Holy Ghost, enduring to the end. Christ wants to be sealed to all of us and we do that by making sacred covenants which include all the covenants of the temple. My sister not only forsook her birthright blessings, she has rejected the fullness of the Christ's gospel, and the Church which he leads, and you say that she has found Jesus? Wow.

I don't understand how you can make a claim that just because someone has good intentions, the fruit appears to be good, he or she cannot be tricked. You are denying that Satan can deceive people. And we all know he is a liar from the beginning. That is what he does really well, he tricks, deceives, leads people away with flaxen cords.
Something that I realized is that the "works" that Christ intends us to perform, are the same works that He did. When James says, faith without works is dead, James is not talking about "going to church", "going to the temple", "being water baptized", "doing your home teaching as a to-do task", and so forth.
Jesus Christ wrote:3 Nephi 27:21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;
Jesus was speaking to the apostles. What works did He do? He healed the sick, He cured diseases, He performed mighty miracles, He blessed, uplifted, and loved. He took care of the poor, the afflicted, and the sinners. He went about doing good. He loved!

That is the works that we must do if we are to lay claim to being disciples of Jesus Christ. Our faith should lead us to do the works of the Master.

Read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. See how Jesus went about doing the Father's work. It looks very, very different from the average Mormon's day to day works in the Church. Follow the Savior Jesus Christ. Do the works He did, then you will be doing the Father's work. Faith, without works (sings, wonders, miracles) is dead.

-Finrock

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Sarah
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Sarah »

Finrock wrote:
Sarah wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
Sarah wrote:My sister also left the Church, but not from getting into Energy Healing, but because when she had her born again "I'm saved" experience, she was healed of her depression and eating disorder. Whatever spirit now was influencing her persuaded her that Christ was not in the LDS Church etc. What do you think was causing her health and mental issues in the first place? That's right - evil spirits. So of course they would stop afflicting her if they could persuade her to believe everything in the Church was wrong, and she would be the means of leading other people out. That is exactly what she has done.

My Dad grew up Catholic, and his parents took him as a child to a hypnotist. He was cured from his allergies. Does this make hypnotism good? No.

As beehives we had a sleepover where someone tried to hypnotize all of us and it definitely invited an evil presence, so much so that the mom felt inspired that something was wrong and came down to stop whatever we were doing. Do I believe it was the power of Christ that healed my Dad? No, I think most likely it was the power of Satan or evil spirits, trying to get people to depend on hypnotists and lead them to do follow any other path but the right one.

We have to remember that healing the physical body is a great thing, but it is not going to save us. Spiritual healing is most important.

This is going to bother you because you have been taught that "works" save,,.but your sister is saved. She did find Jesus. Remember...modalities don't matter...the fruit of it does. Meaning....the intention behind it will affect what fruit the modality produces. We're your friends hypnotizing to control???. Who tries to control people....Satan? Open your heart...not your head. Feel what I am trying to teach you.
Yes, I have been taught that works save in conjunction with grace. Grace is activated when you exercise the works of faith, baptism, repentance, receiving the Holy Ghost, enduring to the end. Christ wants to be sealed to all of us and we do that by making sacred covenants which include all the covenants of the temple. My sister not only forsook her birthright blessings, she has rejected the fullness of the Christ's gospel, and the Church which he leads, and you say that she has found Jesus? Wow.

I don't understand how you can make a claim that just because someone has good intentions, the fruit appears to be good, he or she cannot be tricked. You are denying that Satan can deceive people. And we all know he is a liar from the beginning. That is what he does really well, he tricks, deceives, leads people away with flaxen cords.
Something that I realized is that the "works" that Christ intends us to perform, are the same works that He did. When James says, faith without works is dead, James is not talking about "going to church", "going to the temple", "being water baptized", "doing your home teaching as a to-do task", and so forth.
Jesus Christ wrote:3 Nephi 27:21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;
Jesus was speaking to the apostles. What works did He do? He healed the sick, He cured diseases, He performed mighty miracles, He blessed, uplifted, and loved. He took care of the poor, the afflicted, and the sinners. He went about doing good. He loved!

That is the works that we must do if we are to lay claim to being disciples of Jesus Christ. Our faith should lead us to do the works of the Master.

Read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. See how Jesus went about doing the Father's work. It looks very, very different from the average Mormon's day to day works in the Church. Follow the Savior Jesus Christ. Do the works He did, then you will be doing the Father's work. Faith, without works (sings, wonders, miracles) is dead.

-Finrock
I don't know what your ward is like but in mine we have so many people serving in the community, running the food bank etc. that I think you could say that in general, LDS are doing the works of the Father, in that sense - taking care of the poor the best they can. I've given twice this year to beggars, cleaned someone's apt. a few months in a row etc. I don't say this to brag - I really don't care what man thinks - inasmuch as you do in unto others you do it unto the Lord - I do because I have great compassion for others and because I love Him.
But I only say this because it seems like you are unconvinced that the members of the Church are acting like the Savior. What I see is that they are doing works like him.
But just because these are the works of the saved, doesn't mean we disregard other works - ordinances, temple work, fulfilling assignments and callings in the Church - the Lord's Church. He feels loved when we do it all for the love of him.

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Sarah
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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Sarah »

TrueIntent wrote:i came across this today....do you guys realize you quote the Pharisees speaking to Christ?????????? The blind can't see.

22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw.
23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, "This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons."
What this quote proves is that the Pharisees had witnessed in their time someone casting out demons. The question is how the demon was cast out and why the demon left.

No one is arguing against healing and casting out devils in the Lord's way. The Pharisees' problem was that they did not recognize the true Messiah. We too must recognize Him, His truth, His Priesthood power, His Church, and do works His way.

3 Nephi 14:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

JohnnyL
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Posts: 9830

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

Sarah wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:i came across this today....do you guys realize you quote the Pharisees speaking to Christ?????????? The blind can't see.

22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw.
23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, "This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons."
What this quote proves is that the Pharisees had witnessed in their time someone casting out demons. The question is how the demon was cast out and why the demon left.

No one is arguing against healing and casting out devils in the Lord's way. The Pharisees' problem was that they did not recognize the true Messiah. We too must recognize Him, His truth, His Priesthood power, His Church, and do works His way.

3 Nephi 14:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
That "someone" was Jesus.

Luke 11:14 ¶ And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

Matthew 12:22 ¶ Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Mark 3:22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

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Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by David Cassani »

Energy healing can be simple when guided by the spirit and understanding seven simple centers of the body, sometimes called seals in the scriptures.
learn about keeping healing simple. I have felt it is time to share this work. A later day David http://www.simplelivingcenters.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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