Energy Healing Showdown

Alternative/natural solution-based discussions of topics like health, medicine, science, food, etc.
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DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1178

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by DesertWonderer »

sparky31 wrote:Lets put this plain and simple. My wife began as a message therapist. She has an amazing ability to just know where to work and were the problem areas are without being told. She begins each therapeutic with a prayer. We are both practicing, Temple Worthy saints. She has added oils in her therapy to increase her patient's recovery. She has also getting more information on energy healing. We are also thinking about getting her certified. I was very skeptical at first but began seeing marked improvements, both in mine and other clients overall health. I do not believe this to be a tool of "Satin" or some other ungodly practice. I see this as being another aide that our loving Heavenly Father has afforded his children as a way to continue and spread his blessings. The bible tells of holy rocks and also used holy oils as well. Fore Example; the "Rocks" that our profit Joseph Smith used to translate the brass and gold plates. To the nay sayers it looked like he was just moving stone and practicing black arts. We as LDS faithful know this to not be the facts and that he was using the stoned to translate the Plates that he was commanded to do. look at the use of Frankincense. That oil was also used in holy ordinances. However, if we follow the scriptures, it says, " For those who lack wisdom, let them ask of God" which is what our great Profit Joseph Smith did as a boy when he was confused about what church he should join. We should not just rely on our own personal beliefs to decide on what is right or not but should inquire of God and get he response as to what is holy or of satin. My response to my question was for how my wife and I explain why this works and our practice of using energy as another solution to easing my brothers and sister pain and suffering, is neither sacrilegious, or an evil practice. However, just like with anything, know who your healer is and their beliefs on what are going on. BECAUSE ANYTHING MEANT FOR GOOD CAN BE USED FOR EVIL.
You are wrong with MANY your statements above. I'll give just a bit of objective proof:

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... reiki.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The most comprehensive review of reiki research was done by Edzard Ernst, M.D., Ph.D. and his colleagues at the University of Exeter. After surveying studies published through January 2008, they concluded that most were poorly designed and "the evidence is insufficient to suggest that reiki is an effective treatment for any condition." [4]

In 2009, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops concluded that "reiki therapy finds no support either in the findings of natural science or in Christian belief" and urged Catholic health-care facilities and clergy not to promote or support it. It further stated:

Reiki lacks scientific credibility. It has not been accepted by the scientific and medical communities as an effective therapy. Reputable scientific studies attesting to the efficacy of Reiki are lacking, as is a plausible scientific explanation as to how it could possibly be efficacious. The explanation of the efficacy of Reiki depends entirely on a particular view of the world as permeated by this "universal life energy" (Reiki) that is subject to manipulation by human thought and will. Reiki practitioners claim that their training allows one to channel the "universal life energy" that is present in all things. This "universal life energy," however, is unknown to natural science. As the presence of such energy has not been observed by means of natural science, the justification for these therapies necessarily must come from something other than science [5].

In the mid-1990s, at ages 9 and 10, Emily Rosa demonstrated that 21 therapeutic touch (TT) practitioners could not detect her alleged "energy field." During the tests, the practitioners rested their arms on a flat surface, about a foot apart. Emily then hovered her hand, palm down, a few inches above one of the subject's palms. A cardboard screen prevented the subjects from seeing which of their hands was selected. The practitioners correctly located Emily's hand only 122 (44%) out of 280 trials, which is no better than would be expected by guessing [6]. After the Journal of the American Medical Association published the results, TT leaders called the study a "parlor game," but they refused to suggest an alternative experimental design or to undergo similar tests themselves [7]. It might be interesting to investigate whether reiki practitioners can actually sense or transmit "energy," whether reiki "attunements" actually enhance anything, and whether feelings of warmth are accompanied by any measurable change of skin temperature. Researchers at Scripps Institute (San Diego) recently used a Magnes 2500 WH SQUID device to measure the electromagnetic fields from the hands and heart of three reiki masters when they were (a) not practicing reiki, (b) purportedly transmitting reiki to a distant person, and (c) purportedly transmitting to a person in the room. Similar measurements were made on four reiki-naive volunteers before and after they received a reiki training/attunement enabling them to self-administer reiki. No high-intensity radiation attributable to reiki was found [9].

British Regulatory Action

The British Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) has objected to reiki claims at least five times:

In 2001, the ASA concluded that the International Reiki and Healing Centre had made unsubstantiated claims about "healing" serious diseases and that a "Doctor of Philosophy in Alternative Medicine" certificate from an Indian school did not entitle the proprietor (Allan Sweeney) to refer to himself as "Dr. Sweeney." [10]
In 2011, the ASA objected to unsubstantiated claims on Sweeney's Web site that reiki was an effective therapy for cancer, ADHD, back pain, migraine, depression, anger, low energy, sleeplessness, ADD, sadness, bereavement, tinnitus and sciatica [11].
In 2011, the ASA objected to unsubstantiated claims by "reiki master" Christina Moore of East Sussex, England, that reiki could treat grief, insomnia, tinnitus, lack of confidence, back pain, constipation, Candida, skin disorders, anxiety, stress, tension, worry and phobias [12].
In 2012, the ASA objected to claims by Jackie Howchin that rieki could treat a "wide range of problems, including stress, depression, bereavement, back pain, fibromyalgia, Myasthenia Gravis, sports injuries, broken bones, sciatica and nerve damage." [13]
In 2012, the ASA objected to claims by A Better Being that reiki could treat irritable bowel syndrome, hay fever, indigestion, repetitive strain injury, headaches, asthma, eczema, poor circulation, rheumatism and sinusitis [14].
The Bottom Line

Reiki has no substantiated health value and lacks a scientifically plausible rationale. Science-based healthcare settings should not tolerate its use, and scarce government research dollars should not be used to study it further [8].

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 798

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Onsdag »

The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of particular note, when 2News asked the Church what their stance on "Christ-centered energy healing" was, they responded:

“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”

What I found interesting, and perhaps a little disconcerting, was the ratio of women to men who were in attendance at the conference. From a quick headcount of the video footage I'd guesstimate that 90% or more of the attendees were women whereas men represented only about 10% or less. I'd be curious as to what people attribute the differences to. Men too busy working or preoccupied with other things (e.g. entertainment) to attend? Women are more "in tune," spiritual, emotional, or even nurturing, which this technique of "healing" therefor has special appeal to them? Women have more money or free time to attend? Something else?

Most of the conferences and conventions I've been to men and women have been fairly equally represented, surprisingly so in some cases - General Conference, Comic Con, Prepper Con, Renaissance Fair, Scottish Fest, Gaming conventions, Mountain Man Rendezvous, Powwows, Scandinavian Festivals, Education Week, and more. I've often seen just as many men in health and well-being oriented professions as women - doctors, nurses, EMT's, therapists of every conceivable sort, dieticians, herbalists, and on and on. This has really piqued my interest on why this phenomenon/practice is drawing and attracting disproportionately far more women than men. Anyone?

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by inho »

Onsdag wrote:The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's not cheap to learn healing:
On her website, Ward sells package deals. One offers 24 online personal mentoring sessions with her, among other things. The price tag she's put on her time? Roughly $1,000 an hour.
:-o

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1438

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by zionminded »

Onsdag wrote:The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of particular note, when 2News asked the Church what their stance on "Christ-centered energy healing" was, they responded:

“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”

What I found interesting, and perhaps a little disconcerting, was the ratio of women to men who were in attendance at the conference. From a quick headcount of the video footage I'd guesstimate that 90% or more of the attendees were women whereas men represented only about 10% or less. I'd be curious as to what people attribute the differences to. Men too busy working or preoccupied with other things (e.g. entertainment) to attend? Women are more "in tune," spiritual, emotional, or even nurturing, which this technique of "healing" therefor has special appeal to them? Women have more money or free time to attend? Something else?

Most of the conferences and conventions I've been to men and women have been fairly equally represented, surprisingly so in some cases - General Conference, Comic Con, Prepper Con, Renaissance Fair, Scottish Fest, Gaming conventions, Mountain Man Rendezvous, Powwows, Scandinavian Festivals, Education Week, and more. I've often seen just as many men in health and well-being oriented professions as women - doctors, nurses, EMT's, therapists of every conceivable sort, dieticians, herbalists, and on and on. This has really piqued my interest on why this phenomenon/practice is drawing and attracting disproportionately far more women than men. Anyone?
“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”
Translation: Only priesthood leaders have power from God, and only church leaders can make money from their callings and positions.

Just wait.. this issue will only get more polarized. What will people do when women start leaving the church? Think their policies will change?

Mcox
captain of 100
Posts: 309

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Mcox »

So Zion, are you saying that you are leaving the church? Or have you already left? You see this what energy healing does. It leads good people down the wrong path. And convinced they are right, will not return to the old ship Zion. The reactio from energy healers is the same reaction the followers of Julie Rowe had when the letter to the seminary about her book being spurious. The followers made excuses that this wasn't official or it doesn't apply to us. The church clearly is warning against energy healing and those involved can't see it to save their lives.

e-eye2.0
captain of 100
Posts: 454

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by e-eye2.0 »

Having been a member of other forums where it seems energy healing is more accepted by TBM I am surprised that even after the church came out with this statement the spinning going on by these members to justify energy healing. It's amazing how hard it can be when we set our mind on one thing and dig our heels in how hard it can be to be corrected and to correct ourselves. I think as part of the sifting we have seen other examples and will continue to run into things like this where we do have members leave the church. I have found that in issues like this and others it's better to have a change of heart quickly or it may rock your foundation.

I am just glad the church came out and gave a statement on this because there are many who have fallen into this trap. This may be a good better best, for some people, and some may have found good but the best practice is priesthood power. Personally I think energy healing is dangerous.

DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1178

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by DesertWonderer »

zionminded wrote:
“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”
Translation: Only priesthood leaders have power from God, and only church leaders can make money from their callings and positions.

Just wait.. this issue will only get more polarized. Maybe. What will people do when women start leaving the church? IF that happens it will be sad but simply more evidence of the separation of the wheat and tares. Think their policies will change? What are you talking about? No policy was issued.
LOL I love the intentionally false "translation". It clearly demonstrates who is on the wrong side of this argument.
Last edited by DesertWonderer on September 22nd, 2016, 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9831

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

DesertWonderer wrote:
sparky31 wrote:Lets put this plain and simple. ...
You are wrong with MANY your statements above. I'll give just a bit of objective proof:

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... reiki.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
=)) =)) You really have no idea about quackwatch, do you??

Let me say it again: Get educated!

Here, let me help you: http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/ ... arrett.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Stephen Barrett - Professional Crackpot...

The Internet needs health information it can trust. Stephen Barrett doesn't provide it...

Barrett is one of those people whose ambitions and opinions of himself far exceeds his abilities. Without ANY qualifications he has set himself up as an expert in just about everything having to do with health care - and more.

And this from a man who is a professional failure.

Records show that Barrett never achieved any success in the medical profession. His claim to being a "retired Psychiatrist" is laughable. He is, in fact, a "failed Psychiatrist," and a "failed MD."

The Psychiatric profession rejected Barrett years ago, for Barrett could NOT pass the examinations necessary to become "Board Certified." Which, is no doubt why Barrett was, throughout his career, relegated to lower level "part time" positions.

Barrett, we know, was forced to give up his medical license in Pennsylvania in 1993 when his "part-time" employment at the State Mental Hospital was terminated, and he had so few (nine) private patients during his last five years of practice, that he couldn't afford the Malpractice Insurance premiums Pennsylvania requires.

In a job market in the United States, where there is a "doctor shortage," Stephen Barrett, after his termination by the State mental Hospital, couldn't find employment. He was in his mid-50s at the time. He should have been at the top of his craft - yet, apparently, he couldn't find work.

It is obvious, that, after one humiliation after another, in 1993 Barrett simply gave up his medical aspirations, turned in his MD license, and retreated, in bitterness and frustration, to his basement.

It was in that basement, where Barrett took up "quackbusting" - which, in reality, means that Barrett attacks "cutting-edge" health professionals and paradigms - those that ARE achieving success in their segment of health care.

And there, in "quackbusting" is where Barrett finally found the attention and recognition he seems to crave - for, a while, that is, until three California Judges, in a PUBLISHED Appeals Court decision, took a HARD look at Barrett's activities, and declared him "biased, and unworthy of credibility.""

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9831

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

Onsdag wrote:The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of particular note, when 2News asked the Church what their stance on "Christ-centered energy healing" was, they responded:

“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”

What I found interesting, and perhaps a little disconcerting, was the ratio of women to men who were in attendance at the conference. From a quick headcount of the video footage I'd guesstimate that 90% or more of the attendees were women whereas men represented only about 10% or less. I'd be curious as to what people attribute the differences to. Men too busy working or preoccupied with other things (e.g. entertainment) to attend? Women are more "in tune," spiritual, emotional, or even nurturing, which this technique of "healing" therefor has special appeal to them? Women have more money or free time to attend? Something else?

Most of the conferences and conventions I've been to men and women have been fairly equally represented, surprisingly so in some cases - General Conference, Comic Con, Prepper Con, Renaissance Fair, Scottish Fest, Gaming conventions, Mountain Man Rendezvous, Powwows, Scandinavian Festivals, Education Week, and more. I've often seen just as many men in health and well-being oriented professions as women - doctors, nurses, EMT's, therapists of every conceivable sort, dieticians, herbalists, and on and on. This has really piqued my interest on why this phenomenon/practice is drawing and attracting disproportionately far more women than men. Anyone?
I wonder who in the church responded, and by what authority.

Anyone who thinks this is the church's policy, a statement "by the church", or such, is very mistaken. While some, like Pres. Utchdorf, no doubt hold that point of view (see the article at https://bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com ... -by-grego/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), while others, like President Benson, surely didn't.

I'd say it's the Public Affairs Department that said it, with a 70 that "yeah, yeah, sounds good" who reviewed it.

As to why women attend more than men: I'd say your reasons might all be factors. Women are more interested in healing, have more charity, are more open, and aren't afraid to show they care as much, and are more "heart" than "mind".

When I've talked with some guys, I get the feeling they would love to have it done, but are scared of being seen or talked about as "not being men".

One time I was talking to a guy about his cancer, and I could tell something was up. I stopped and asked, and he said he just wanted to die, it was ok with him. He was still under 60, and had children that hadn't married yet. So I talked to his wife, who listened intently, asked questions, etc.--she didn't want him to die.
Last edited by JohnnyL on September 22nd, 2016, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9831

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

inho wrote:
Onsdag wrote:The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's not cheap to learn healing:
On her website, Ward sells package deals. One offers 24 online personal mentoring sessions with her, among other things. The price tag she's put on her time? Roughly $1,000 an hour.
:-o
Yes, it can be expensive. However, let me say:

Au contraire. It's quite cheap. To learn Quantum Touch, for example, it costs the price of a used book and shipping ($5.76). And yes, it's enough. To learn others, you can watch videos and go on websites. Cost: $0.

However, ONE trip to the emergency room for asthma used to cost $1,000 (now with epipens costing FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS, it's probably gone up even more...).

Mcox
captain of 100
Posts: 309

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Mcox »

Ah oh the universe is reversing the abundance.....

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by inho »

JohnnyL wrote:To learn Quantum Touch, for example, it costs the price of a used book and shipping ($5.76).
I'd rather buy a used book. As a physicist I can do real quantum stuff at work.

DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1178

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by DesertWonderer »

JohnnyL wrote:
inho wrote:
Onsdag wrote:The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's not cheap to learn healing:
On her website, Ward sells package deals. One offers 24 online personal mentoring sessions with her, among other things. The price tag she's put on her time? Roughly $1,000 an hour.
:-o
Yes, it can be expensive. However, let me say:

Au contraire. It's quite cheap. To learn Quantum Touch, for example, it costs the price of a used book and shipping ($5.76). And yes, it's enough. To learn others, you can watch videos and go on websites. Cost: $0.

However, ONE trip to the emergency room for asthma used to cost $1,000 (now with epipens costing FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS, it's probably gone up even more...).
At least the trip to the ER and the epipens actually do something beneficial for the health of the patient.

e-eye2.0
captain of 100
Posts: 454

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by e-eye2.0 »

JohnnyL wrote:
Onsdag wrote:The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of particular note, when 2News asked the Church what their stance on "Christ-centered energy healing" was, they responded:

“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”

What I found interesting, and perhaps a little disconcerting, was the ratio of women to men who were in attendance at the conference. From a quick headcount of the video footage I'd guesstimate that 90% or more of the attendees were women whereas men represented only about 10% or less. I'd be curious as to what people attribute the differences to. Men too busy working or preoccupied with other things (e.g. entertainment) to attend? Women are more "in tune," spiritual, emotional, or even nurturing, which this technique of "healing" therefor has special appeal to them? Women have more money or free time to attend? Something else?

Most of the conferences and conventions I've been to men and women have been fairly equally represented, surprisingly so in some cases - General Conference, Comic Con, Prepper Con, Renaissance Fair, Scottish Fest, Gaming conventions, Mountain Man Rendezvous, Powwows, Scandinavian Festivals, Education Week, and more. I've often seen just as many men in health and well-being oriented professions as women - doctors, nurses, EMT's, therapists of every conceivable sort, dieticians, herbalists, and on and on. This has really piqued my interest on why this phenomenon/practice is drawing and attracting disproportionately far more women than men. Anyone?
I wonder who in the church responded, and by what authority.

Anyone who thinks this is the church's policy, a statement "by the church", or such, is very mistaken. While some, like Pres. Utchdorf, no doubt hold that point of view (see the article at https://bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com ... -by-grego/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), while others, like President Benson, surely didn't.

I'd say it's the Public Affairs Department that said it, with a 70 that "yeah, yeah, sounds good" who reviewed it.

As to why women attend more than men: I'd say your reasons might all be factors. Women are more interested in healing, have more charity, are more open, and aren't afraid to show they care as much, and are more "heart" than "mind".

When I've talked with some guys, I get the feeling they would love to have it done, but are scared of being seen or talked about as "not being men".

One time I was talking to a guy about his cancer, and I could tell something was up. I stopped and asked, and he said he just wanted to die, it was ok with him. He was still under 60, and had children that hadn't married yet. So I talked to his wife, who listened intently, asked questions, etc.--she didn't want him to die.
Actually when the church comes out with a statement like this it is vetted to the top and signed off on. They don't throw statements like this out just for the fun of it.

What you will see is members try to justify it. This could be very trying for some members as it's hard to swallow the pill and get back in the boat when one may have thought they were doing the right thing all along and felt they benefited. Following the prophet is pretty easy when it lines up with what we believe but it gets a little harder when it goes against our way of thinking/living especially those who have defended this for years as acceptable. Satan is the great deceiver he can mimic just about anything.

Healing and miracles by false Christs in the last days? You better believe it and I think this is just small potatoes to what we will see in the future.

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1438

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by zionminded »

e-eye2.0 wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:
Onsdag wrote:The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of particular note, when 2News asked the Church what their stance on "Christ-centered energy healing" was, they responded:

“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”

What I found interesting, and perhaps a little disconcerting, was the ratio of women to men who were in attendance at the conference. From a quick headcount of the video footage I'd guesstimate that 90% or more of the attendees were women whereas men represented only about 10% or less. I'd be curious as to what people attribute the differences to. Men too busy working or preoccupied with other things (e.g. entertainment) to attend? Women are more "in tune," spiritual, emotional, or even nurturing, which this technique of "healing" therefor has special appeal to them? Women have more money or free time to attend? Something else?

Most of the conferences and conventions I've been to men and women have been fairly equally represented, surprisingly so in some cases - General Conference, Comic Con, Prepper Con, Renaissance Fair, Scottish Fest, Gaming conventions, Mountain Man Rendezvous, Powwows, Scandinavian Festivals, Education Week, and more. I've often seen just as many men in health and well-being oriented professions as women - doctors, nurses, EMT's, therapists of every conceivable sort, dieticians, herbalists, and on and on. This has really piqued my interest on why this phenomenon/practice is drawing and attracting disproportionately far more women than men. Anyone?
I wonder who in the church responded, and by what authority.

Anyone who thinks this is the church's policy, a statement "by the church", or such, is very mistaken. While some, like Pres. Utchdorf, no doubt hold that point of view (see the article at https://bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com ... -by-grego/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), while others, like President Benson, surely didn't.

I'd say it's the Public Affairs Department that said it, with a 70 that "yeah, yeah, sounds good" who reviewed it.

As to why women attend more than men: I'd say your reasons might all be factors. Women are more interested in healing, have more charity, are more open, and aren't afraid to show they care as much, and are more "heart" than "mind".

When I've talked with some guys, I get the feeling they would love to have it done, but are scared of being seen or talked about as "not being men".

One time I was talking to a guy about his cancer, and I could tell something was up. I stopped and asked, and he said he just wanted to die, it was ok with him. He was still under 60, and had children that hadn't married yet. So I talked to his wife, who listened intently, asked questions, etc.--she didn't want him to die.
Actually when the church comes out with a statement like this it is vetted to the top and signed off on. They don't throw statements like this out just for the fun of it.

What you will see is members try to justify it. This could be very trying for some members as it's hard to swallow the pill and get back in the boat when one may have thought they were doing the right thing all along and felt they benefited. Following the prophet is pretty easy when it lines up with what we believe but it gets a little harder when it goes against our way of thinking/living especially those who have defended this for years as acceptable. Satan is the great deceiver he can mimic just about anything.

Healing and miracles by false Christs in the last days? You better believe it and I think this is just small potatoes to what we will see in the future.
is that the good ship zion you're referring too?

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1438

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by zionminded »

Mcox wrote:So Zion, are you saying that you are leaving the church? Or have you already left? You see this what energy healing does. It leads good people down the wrong path. And convinced they are right, will not return to the old ship Zion. The reactio from energy healers is the same reaction the followers of Julie Rowe had when the letter to the seminary about her book being spurious. The followers made excuses that this wasn't official or it doesn't apply to us. The church clearly is warning against energy healing and those involved can't see it to save their lives.
I'm very active in the church. Energy healing doesn't take people down the "wrong path", it does play a factor in waking people up, because they see the light of Christ is powerful outside of a priesthood holder, and it begins to wake them up!! That doesn't dismoss the role of the priesthood at all, but the arrogance and pride that the priesthood (held by men), is the only way, is off... it just is. The church suppresses people's spirituality to keep them under the thumb of local and general leadership. Want to test it? Ask your bishop if you can follow the spirit and give your tithing money to whomever the Lord tells you too and stay in good standing with your temple recommend. Or ask your bishop if why the church no longer teaches that you can receive Christ in the flesh as a part of the 2nd anointing as was once taught openly.

e-eye2.0
captain of 100
Posts: 454

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by e-eye2.0 »

zionminded wrote:
Mcox wrote:So Zion, are you saying that you are leaving the church? Or have you already left? You see this what energy healing does. It leads good people down the wrong path. And convinced they are right, will not return to the old ship Zion. The reactio from energy healers is the same reaction the followers of Julie Rowe had when the letter to the seminary about her book being spurious. The followers made excuses that this wasn't official or it doesn't apply to us. The church clearly is warning against energy healing and those involved can't see it to save their lives.
I'm very active in the church. Energy healing doesn't take people down the "wrong path", it does play a factor in waking people up, because they see the light of Christ is powerful outside of a priesthood holder, and it begins to wake them up!! That doesn't dismoss the role of the priesthood at all, but the arrogance and pride that the priesthood (held by men), is the only way, is off... it just is. The church suppresses people's spirituality to keep them under the thumb of local and general leadership. Want to test it? Ask your bishop if you can follow the spirit and give your tithing money to whomever the Lord tells you too and stay in good standing with your temple recommend. Or ask your bishop if why the church no longer teaches that you can receive Christ in the flesh as a part of the 2nd anointing as was once taught openly.
Sounds like you are active in how you want the church ran but not active in how the Lord actually runs His church.

"good better best" - if energy healing was good (I don't think it is) - it will never get you where you need to be spiritually. The church gives caution about EH but you disagree. However why would you do anything but disagree as you already disagree on simple things like keys and how tithing funds are used. The best option is the priesthood.

Mcox
captain of 100
Posts: 309

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Mcox »

You are making my point Zion. You are on a wrong path if you are not ok with the way we pay tithing. All we have belongs to God anyway. Why wouldn't you gladly give tithing as it has been set up in the Saviors church. God is a God of order. Nothing is done in the church without the Priesthood. Thank goodness. The Savior Himself set it up this way, and yet you are wanting something different? This is why energy healing is so dangerous.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9831

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

DesertWonderer wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:
inho wrote:
Onsdag wrote:The 2 News article is now up:

http://kutv.com/news/local/the-business ... gy-healing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's not cheap to learn healing:
On her website, Ward sells package deals. One offers 24 online personal mentoring sessions with her, among other things. The price tag she's put on her time? Roughly $1,000 an hour.
:-o
Yes, it can be expensive. However, let me say:

Au contraire. It's quite cheap. To learn Quantum Touch, for example, it costs the price of a used book and shipping ($5.76). And yes, it's enough. To learn others, you can watch videos and go on websites. Cost: $0.

However, ONE trip to the emergency room for asthma used to cost $1,000 (now with epipens costing FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS, it's probably gone up even more...).
At least the trip to the ER and the epipens actually do something beneficial for the health of the patient.
Once more, GET EDUCATED! Beneficial? Research a little: how many people has Western medicine and doctors cured of asthma? Report back, please. EH gets rid of those trips.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9831

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by JohnnyL »

e-eye2.0 wrote:
zionminded wrote:
Mcox wrote:So Zion, are you saying that you are leaving the church? Or have you already left? You see this what energy healing does. It leads good people down the wrong path. And convinced they are right, will not return to the old ship Zion. The reactio from energy healers is the same reaction the followers of Julie Rowe had when the letter to the seminary about her book being spurious. The followers made excuses that this wasn't official or it doesn't apply to us. The church clearly is warning against energy healing and those involved can't see it to save their lives.
I'm very active in the church. Energy healing doesn't take people down the "wrong path", it does play a factor in waking people up, because they see the light of Christ is powerful outside of a priesthood holder, and it begins to wake them up!! That doesn't dismoss the role of the priesthood at all, but the arrogance and pride that the priesthood (held by men), is the only way, is off... it just is. The church suppresses people's spirituality to keep them under the thumb of local and general leadership. Want to test it? Ask your bishop if you can follow the spirit and give your tithing money to whomever the Lord tells you too and stay in good standing with your temple recommend. Or ask your bishop if why the church no longer teaches that you can receive Christ in the flesh as a part of the 2nd anointing as was once taught openly.
Sounds like you are active in how you want the church ran but not active in how the Lord actually runs His church.

"good better best" - if energy healing was good (I don't think it is) - it will never get you where you need to be spiritually. The church gives caution about EH but you disagree. However why would you do anything but disagree as you already disagree on simple things like keys and how tithing funds are used. The best option is the priesthood.
If you go to a doctor, are you using best? better? good? necessary, but not good?

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1438

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by zionminded »

Mcox wrote:You are making my point Zion. You are on a wrong path if you are not ok with the way we pay tithing. All we have belongs to God anyway. Why wouldn't you gladly give tithing as it has been set up in the Saviors church. God is a God of order. Nothing is done in the church without the Priesthood. Thank goodness. The Savior Himself set it up this way, and yet you are wanting something different? This is why energy healing is so dangerous.
I put Christ first, and the Church second in my theology. What is dangerous is putting the church first and thinking that the church will never lead you astray, and the leaders are infallible. There are MANY active members who don't think in such black and white terms as I think you do (I could be wrong).

In the past church leaders warned about this, but no longer; strict obedience to the patriarchy is the status quo.

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1438

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by zionminded »

e-eye2.0 wrote:
zionminded wrote:
Mcox wrote:So Zion, are you saying that you are leaving the church? Or have you already left? You see this what energy healing does. It leads good people down the wrong path. And convinced they are right, will not return to the old ship Zion. The reactio from energy healers is the same reaction the followers of Julie Rowe had when the letter to the seminary about her book being spurious. The followers made excuses that this wasn't official or it doesn't apply to us. The church clearly is warning against energy healing and those involved can't see it to save their lives.
I'm very active in the church. Energy healing doesn't take people down the "wrong path", it does play a factor in waking people up, because they see the light of Christ is powerful outside of a priesthood holder, and it begins to wake them up!! That doesn't dismoss the role of the priesthood at all, but the arrogance and pride that the priesthood (held by men), is the only way, is off... it just is. The church suppresses people's spirituality to keep them under the thumb of local and general leadership. Want to test it? Ask your bishop if you can follow the spirit and give your tithing money to whomever the Lord tells you too and stay in good standing with your temple recommend. Or ask your bishop if why the church no longer teaches that you can receive Christ in the flesh as a part of the 2nd anointing as was once taught openly.
Sounds like you are active in how you want the church ran but not active in how the Lord actually runs His church.

"good better best" - if energy healing was good (I don't think it is) - it will never get you where you need to be spiritually. The church gives caution about EH but you disagree. However why would you do anything but disagree as you already disagree on simple things like keys and how tithing funds are used. The best option is the priesthood.
Your assuming the Prophet is perfectly directed by the Lord, and there are many cases when the prophet was not. I agree with most things the church does, and value the role of church leadership, and am grateful for the wonderful things the church does.

Why do some mormon's think the church owns a license on the light of Christ, and that if anybody but a priesthood holder is using the power of god (found within us all), it must be evil or is dangerous? This sort of theology is very manipulating and prideful. No wonder Jacob 5 says in the very last days the trees in the vineyard have fruit that is not good.

DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1178

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by DesertWonderer »

zionminded wrote:
Why do some mormon's think the church owns a license on the light of Christ, and that if anybody but a priesthood holder is using the power of god (found within us all), it must be evil or is dangerous? Strawman alert! This sort of theology is very manipulating and prideful. No wonder Jacob 5 says in the very last days the trees in the vineyard have fruit that is not good. (hint...he's talking about apostasy-you know people who teach and belive false docrine like Katy Kellie's group (you are still mad she didn't' get the priesthood aren't you?), Spencer / JR / Hector et al's tripe, new age / satanic healing, Snuffer's "wresting the keys" re-baptism and other assorted falsities, etc...)

Mcox
captain of 100
Posts: 309

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by Mcox »

Zion, you are making my point again. Yes I believe that the prophets will never lead us astray, they are the very mouthpiece of the Savior! And I do not separate Jesus Christ from His church. Yes it is administered by fallible people, that's the beauty of it.

e-eye2.0
captain of 100
Posts: 454

Re: Energy Healing Showdown

Post by e-eye2.0 »

I sometimes see some pull the "prophet isn't perfect" card when they want to disagree with what the prophet has revealed. This wouldn't be the first nor last time it's been attempted. The end results are usually not pretty though.

I would think in the last days one would want to hold tighter to the iron rod as there is a mist a darkness in the land. It seems however it's an age of we know better and then you see people going down strange paths. The interesting thing is these paths truly are strange.

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