Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

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Sweetwater14
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Sweetwater14 »

Bee Prepared wrote:
caddis wrote:
light-one wrote:Maybe sweatwater14 should apply for the job of vaccine test guppie, although it probably doesn't pay as well as misinformation spreader.
Haha. I've been pondering he/she being a paid shill. Pretty much the only topic he/she has anything to say is this one. Digs up an old thread just to spout big pharm propaganda. :-?
Hey caddis, we agree on something! Can you take me off your foe list, it really hurts my feelings. :))
It happens virtually without exception. In a debate of this nature, the losing side does one of two things: 1) slumps away, lacking the courage to admit defeat (and never to be heard from again); or 2) resorts to using name-calling/put-down name-labeling ("a paid shill") when referring to an opponent. I have never been guilty of that offense on this thread. (BTW, aren't there rules on this site against that kind of abuse?) That is what's happening here, and it's understandable; i.e., unable to win the argument on points, the anti recourse is to attack the opponent personally. The "anti's" lose the argument based on just one of any number of factors (take your choice): 1) The documented, certified record of the effectiveness of vaccination in preventing disease—an effectiveness involving millions of lives and decades of experience. About a month ago, I posted a tabulation showing dramatic decreases in the incidence of diseases after the implementation of vaccination programs. That evidence cannot be refuted. In several posts I asked the "anti's" by what means the polio epidemic was ended. I cannot recall receiving a single credible response. 2) Almost without exception, the sources the "anti's" use are deeply flawed. Natural News survives by running display ads for wacko products that no responsible publication would touch. Then there is Dr. Blaylock (he still believes the 50-year-old myth that fluoridated water is dangerous to one's health); Dr. Wakefield (Brian Deer did not err when he reported on Wakefield's raison d'etre for undertaking the "study," nor did he err when he listed the exorbitant sums Wakefield received for his services [which were tendered to win a court case for the children's families]); and Dr. Joseph Mercola (a quack from w-a-y back). These and their ilk constitute the "anti's" sources . . . discredited, self-proclaimed experts whom legitimate medical scientists avoid in droves. 3) The end-run attempt by Bee Prepared, in which she stated that all the "anti's" want is freedom of choice. That position puts at risk (as the Disneyland measles outbreak demonstrated) public health, inasmuch as unvaccinated children are prone to contract a disease and pass it on to other unvaccinated children, thus laying the foundation for epidemics. It is, to be charitable, a "community be damned" mindset. 4) The meretricious, crude suggestion that fetuses are being aborted in order to supply tissue for manufacturing vaccine—an utterly ludicrous notion that merits universal condemnation. 5) The fundamental error in inductive reasoning, in which a fraction of a fraction of negative vaccine incidents becomes justification for making all vaccination programs non-mandatory, thus (as I say above) setting the stage for epidemics. 6) The arrogant position that the "anti's" know more about vaccine and its effects on the human body than do the medical scientists who are devoting their lives to that very discipline. 7) The "anti's" pervasive conviction that government agencies, independent researchers and labs, university professors, and (gasp) Big Pharma are all liars and obsessed only with making money.

I think it was Alexander Pope who said, "A mind convinced against its will, is of the same opinion still." Pope's statement has been validated countless times, and it is validated once again on this thread.

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caddis
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by caddis »

The only person I've seen losing is you Sweetwater :ymsmug:
Now don't you have a vaccination party you need to be at? I'm sure you're dying to stick one of your kids with a needle. What you're selling we aren't buying.

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Army Of Truth
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Army Of Truth »

Sweetwater14 wrote: It happens virtually without exception. In a debate of this nature, the losing side does one of two things: 1) slumps away, lacking the courage to admit defeat (and never to be heard from again); or 2) resorts to using name-calling/put-down name-labeling ("a paid shill") when referring to an opponent. I have never been guilty of that offense on this thread. (BTW, aren't there rules on this site against that kind of abuse?) That is what's happening here, and it's understandable; i.e., unable to win the argument on points, the anti recourse is to attack the opponent personally. The "anti's" lose the argument based on just one of any number of factors (take your choice): 1) The documented, certified record of the effectiveness of vaccination in preventing disease—an effectiveness involving millions of lives and decades of experience. About a month ago, I posted a tabulation showing dramatic decreases in the incidence of diseases after the implementation of vaccination programs. That evidence cannot be refuted. In several posts I asked the "anti's" by what means the polio epidemic was ended. I cannot recall receiving a single credible response. 2) Almost without exception, the sources the "anti's" use are deeply flawed. Natural News survives by running display ads for wacko products that no responsible publication would touch. Then there is Dr. Blaylock (he still believes the 50-year-old myth that fluoridated water is dangerous to one's health); Dr. Wakefield (Brian Deer did not err when he reported on Wakefield's raison d'etre for undertaking the "study," nor did he err when he listed the exorbitant sums Wakefield received for his services [which were tendered to win a court case for the children's families]); and Dr. Joseph Mercola (a quack from w-a-y back). These and their ilk constitute the "anti's" sources . . . discredited, self-proclaimed experts whom legitimate medical scientists avoid in droves. 3) The end-run attempt by Bee Prepared, in which she stated that all the "anti's" want is freedom of choice. That position puts at risk (as the Disneyland measles outbreak demonstrated) public health, inasmuch as unvaccinated children are prone to contract a disease and pass it on to other unvaccinated children, thus laying the foundation for epidemics. It is, to be charitable, a "community be damned" mindset. 4) The meretricious, crude suggestion that fetuses are being aborted in order to supply tissue for manufacturing vaccine—an utterly ludicrous notion that merits universal condemnation. 5) The fundamental error in inductive reasoning, in which a fraction of a fraction of negative vaccine incidents becomes justification for making all vaccination programs non-mandatory, thus (as I say above) setting the stage for epidemics. 6) The arrogant position that the "anti's" know more about vaccine and its effects on the human body than do the medical scientists who are devoting their lives to that very discipline. 7) The "anti's" pervasive conviction that government agencies, independent researchers and labs, university professors, and (gasp) Big Pharma are all liars and obsessed only with making money.

I think it was Alexander Pope who said, "A mind convinced against its will, is of the same opinion still." Pope's statement has been validated countless times, and it is validated once again on this thread.
Maybe you should first try to follow your own rules since you obviously also resort to "name-calling/put-down name-labeling"!

=)) =)) =))

Bee Prepared
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Bee Prepared »

caddis wrote:The only person I've seen losing is you Sweetwater :ymsmug:
Now don't you have a vaccination party you need to be at? I'm sure you're dying to stick one of your kids with a needle. What you're selling we aren't buying.
:ymparty:

"sweetwater14, why do you put yourself in this position, is there some kind of agenda? Isn't there a forum somewhere for
pro-vaxxers where you could be part of the party?

I defended you in saying that you have a right to your opinion.

Image

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caddis
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by caddis »

:D And Thx bee prepared for pointing out my poor grammar. I was in a hurry. Besides, English class was never my forte. :)

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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Benjamin_LK »

Army Of Truth wrote:Sweetwater:

So by some HUGE leap of logic, you conclude that Mercury, Aluminum, Formaldehyde, MSG, and Fetal Tissue are NOT toxic and are actually good for you? Can you cite even one peer-reviewed, authoritative journal article that concludes that these ingredients have been tested long-term and proven to NOT cause any harm? :ymsmug:
I am still waiting for Sweetwater14 to actually explain how they actually counted lives saved by the MMR Vaccine? I will admit I am not anti-vaccine, but even I wish to know the assumptions that go into making such an estimate of deaths that didn't happen? Did they automatically assume everyone vaccinated was counted as saved? Couldn't have, because that is smaller than the number vaccinated. Could they assume that the number who died should be extrapolated into the future? I am sorry but even as a person who isn't in denial of vaccines, this is cooked up, unreliable, information.

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light-one
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by light-one »

There really isn't anything to debate. Vaccines are not safe. They have been proven unsafe. The ingredients have been proven unsafe even if you don't even take into consideration whether the person lives or dies or gets the disease the shot was supposed to prevent.

The only thing not proven is if the vaccines are effective. And as Ben_LK points out, that simply is not provable.

In the beginning, before the tolerance of the populace was increased due to mass inoculation, and before the long term effects of mercury poisoning was known, and before generation after generation inherited the genetic results of their forefathers, it was much easier to say that shots were beneficial.

There is absolutely no way to determine if a person would have or would not have got sick if he had or had not received a shot. Many people can be exposed to dreadful things and not catch anything anyway, so why inject a known poison into a healthy body?

The idea that un vaccinated people are a danger to people that have had a shot is so stupid that the stupid meter does not even register that high.

Sweetwater14
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Sweetwater14 »

Bee Prepared wrote:
caddis wrote:The only person I've seen losing is you Sweetwater :ymsmug:
Now don't you have a vaccination party you need to be at? I'm sure you're dying to stick one of your kids with a needle. What you're selling we aren't buying.
:ymparty:

"sweetwater14, why do you put yourself in this position, is there some kind of agenda? Isn't there a forum somewhere for
pro-vaxxers where you could be part of the party?

I defended you in saying that you have a right to your opinion.

Image

[/So it's an absolute lie that has killed thousands of kids. Because the mothers who heard that lie, many of them didn't have their kids take either pertussis or measles vaccine, and their children are dead today. And so the people who go and engage in those anti-vaccine efforts--you know, they, they kill children. It's a very sad thing.i] --BILL GATES

Sweetwater14
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Sweetwater14 »

light-one wrote:There really isn't anything to debate. Vaccines are not safe. They have been proven unsafe. The ingredients have been proven unsafe even if you don't even take into consideration whether the person lives or dies or gets the disease the shot was supposed to prevent.
It doesn't seem to matter how often vaccines are proved safe and supplements are shown to offer nothing of value. When people don't like facts, they ignore them. --Michael Specter
The only thing not proven is if the vaccines are effective. And as Ben_LK points out, that simply is not provable.

In the beginning, before the tolerance of the populace was increased due to mass inoculation, and before the long term effects of mercury poisoning was known, and before generation after generation inherited the genetic results of their forefathers, it was much easier to say that shots were beneficial.

There is absolutely no way to determine if a person would have or would not have got sick if he had or had not received a shot. Many people can be exposed to dreadful things and not catch anything anyway, so why inject a known poison into a healthy body?

The idea that un vaccinated people are a danger to people that have had a shot is so stupid that the stupid meter does not even register that high.

Sweetwater14
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Sweetwater14 »

caddis wrote:The only person I've seen losing is you Sweetwater :ymsmug:
Now don't you have a vaccination party you need to be at? I'm sure you're dying to stick one of your kids with a needle. What you're selling we aren't buying.
VACCINES SAVE LIVES; FEAR ENDANGERS THEM. IT'S A SIMPLE MESSAGE PARENTS NEED TO KEEP HEARING. -- Jeffrey Kluger

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dconrad000
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by dconrad000 »

dconrad000 wrote:So that the crux of the matter is not buried and forgotten, I will repost this comment that was directed towards Sweetwater14, from time to time.
dconrad000 wrote:So you admit that you know that dead, murdered baby parts indeed have been used to manufacture and are contained in vaccines, and yet you continue to defend them and advocate that they be injected into the population. Very telling, indeed.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Bee Prepared »

Vaccines can ruin lives, parents need to know this! Don't anybody concede to the "sweetwater14" argument. Is he trying to win over his audience or
his opponent with his argument? I believe it is his opponent!

Regardless, to make such a stand with the information that has been offered, is beyond my comprehension. Especially when he stands alone.
When you can't win an argument, being greatly outnumbered, but you continue on, it verges on hysteria.

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dconrad000
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by dconrad000 »

Governments Hire Web Trolls to Sway Public Opinion
Hiring paid shills to propagandize for the establishment is a common practice


http://www.infowars.com/governments-hir ... c-opinion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


It’s an admitted fact that governments [and corporations] around the world hire armies of shills to troll comment sections of news websites and social media with pro-establishment propaganda in an attempt to sway public opinion.


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dconrad000
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by dconrad000 »

...reposting this from the previous page...
dconrad000 wrote:...from the thread, Vaccine Infowar In Cardston Country, some important things to consider with respect to the Polio epidemic are contained here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9764&start=240" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dconrad000 wrote:...posted this on another thread, recently. It contains important information about polio and where you may still be able to get a dvd of neuro-specialist and brain surgeon, Russell Blaylock, MD's presentation on how vaccinations cause brain damage.

dconrad000 wrote:
Since neuro-specialist and brain surgeon Dr Russell Blaylock's presentation has apparently been censored, I'll share from memory a salient point or two from his extremely credible and vaccine-industry-devastating presentation.

1. As is typical with all other contagious diseases in the history of the world, the population developed natural immunity which had nothing-what-so-ever to do with the vaccine. In countries where no polio vaccine was given, the mortality and morbidity rates declined at the same rate or better than in those countries where the vaccination was given. Several other sources document this, besides Dr Blaylock. Go to page 7 of the thread, Vaccine Infowar In Cardston County:


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9764&start=180" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. The polio epidemic was greatly accentuated by the DPT vaccine. Dr Blaylock, in his presentation revealed that he had discovered from his research of the data -- that the vast majority of those in the United States, who suffered death or permanent paralysis from contracting the polio virus, had been vaccinated with the DPT shot prior -- which impaired their immune systems and rendered them unable to adequately defend themselves against the polio virus, which for most healthy, non-immuno-compromised people is typically a very mild disease with no residual effects. This is one of the Vaccine Industry's dirty little secrets they want very much to be kept hidden. They count on people continuing to believe the myth -- that vaccinations saved them from the terrible monster, polio -- when in reality vaccinations had actually worsened the polio epidemic, which through the natural course of history died out despite the vaccines, not because of them...just as it did in countries where no polio vaccinations had been given. Of course Big Pharma and their powerful propaganda machine stepped in and claimed that they had saved us. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was actually God's marvelous creation, our bodies -- and the ingenius, incredible immune systems that God placed in our bodies -- that saved us...not Big Pharma's vaccines...and that principle is even further strengthened by diligently living the Spirit of all the verses contained in section 89.

Although the several online versions of that presentation by Russell Blaylock, M.D. appear to no longer be available, if one has an interest, I found one place that might still have some in dvd version for about $20.00, here:


http://www.radioliberty.com/vvabd.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having seen the presentation a couple of times in the past year or so, I highly recommend it for viewing if you can possibly get your hands on it.

I have no fear what-so-ever for the coming plagues that shall surely come and for which man's puny arm, including Big Pharma and their vaccines shall not stop. The great promise of the Word of Wisdom and the protective power of the Priesthood are more than good enough for me. That is where I place my trust. If others feel the need to give themselves and family members over to Big Pharma's dangerous and evil, aborted-fetal-cell (many of them) containing witch's brew, vaccines -- that is their prerogative.

Unsurprisingly, thus far, that approach has been a great health blessing to our family. None of our 5 kids have allergies or the many typical health problems that so many of their vaccinated cousins do...and believe me, there is a plague of allergies and other auto-immune disorders and neurological disorders out there, due to vaccinations...due to parents and grandparents giving into the fear and buying the myth that Big Pharma, your government, the World Health Organization, the United Nations, the eugenicist elite, the modern-day-secret-combination and their mouth-piece, the main-stream media wants you to. It should be obvious that each of those I just named, very, very much want you to vaccinate. I advocate doing just the opposite. Vaccinations are a fraud and they certainly are very, very dangerous. Sadly, I know so very, very many that have been vaccine-damaged -- permanently.


Here is the above referenced censored presentation on how vaccines cause brain damage by neuro-specialist and brain surgeon Russell Blaylock, M.D. It is extemely credible testimony from an honest and courageous expert witness. This presentation has repeatedly undergone censorship and removal in the past, so watch it while you still can. This is definitely something that every parent and grandparent should see.

To view it full screen, click this link:

http://youtu.be/fyCJkiHykkk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


HOW VACCINES CAUSE BRAIN DAMAGE
neuro-specialist and brain surgeon Russell Blaylock, M.D.



















.

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dconrad000
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by dconrad000 »

...and this...
dconrad000 wrote:This is an incredibly well done film that has just come out in the past year or so. Every parent and grandparent should see this. After watching it for just the first two to three minutes I could tell that this was one of the best vaccine resistance films ever made.


Silent Epidemic; The Untold Story of Vaccines



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dconrad000
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by dconrad000 »

Human Diploid Cells (which include type MRC-5 & WI-38) = ABORTED FETAL TISSUE!!!

link: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/conten ... evelopment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Partial list of ingredients (including Human Diploid Cells which include type MRC-5 & WI-38) in Vaccines from the CDC’s own website:

…with the disclaimer, ... "efforts have been made to ensure the accuracy of this information, but manufacturers may change product contents before that information is reflected here”. In other words, you never know what really may have made its way into these veritable “witches brews”.

link: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbo ... able-2.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bee Prepared
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Bee Prepared »

caddis wrote::D And Thx bee prepared for pointing out my poor grammar. I was in a hurry. Besides, English class was never my forte. :)
Your grammer is fine and I like your quick wit! ( except when it comes to my religion!) :p

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dconrad000
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by dconrad000 »

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are known eugenicists with philosophies of profound population reduction…yet they both have donated tens of billions of dollars towards vaccine campaigns in third world countries…coordinated through the UN, WHO, and UNICEF — that share those same philosophies. Why would those men and those organizations that want to depopulate the world by 80%, be so concerned in the supposed health and well being and longevity of those third world children?

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dconrad000
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by dconrad000 »

Sweetwater14: You can throw me in a fiery furnace before I will ever allow you or anyone like you to inject me or any of my family with your evil, aborted-fetal-tissue-containing witches brew -- which is vaccines.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Bee Prepared »

dconrad000 wrote:Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are known eugenicists with philosophies of profound population reduction…yet they both have donated tens of billions of dollars towards vaccine campaigns in third world countries…coordinated through the UN, WHO, and UNICEF — that share those same philosophies. Why would those men and those organizations that want to depopulate the world by 80%, be so concerned in the supposed health and well being and longevity of those third world children?
Very good point!

Just look at the effects of medication, vaccines, pesticides, fluoride and aspartame on the human body and how those products are being pushed by people from inside the power structure. There is a virtual monopoly that currently exists in the food industry and there’s a unhealthy link between Monsanto and the American government: Many people who have passed laws in the fields of food, drugs and agriculture were also, at some point on the payroll of Monsanto. In other words, the elite decides which foods are sold to you.

Why is fluoride still in our water?

◾they were once used as pesticides
◾they are registered as “poisonous” under the 1972 Poisons Act, in the same group of toxins as arsenic, mercury and paraquat
◾fluoride is scientifically classed as more toxic than lead, but there is about 20 times more fluoride than lead in tap water.

“In 1995, neurotoxicologist and former Director of toxicology at Forsyth Dental Center in Boston, Dr. Phyllis Mullenix published research showing that fluoride built up in the brains of animals when exposed to moderate levels. Damage to the brain occured and the behavior patterns of the animals was adversely effected. Offspring of pregnant animals receiving relatively low doses of fluoride showed permanent effects to the brain which were seen as hyperactivity (ADD-like symptoms). Young animals and adult animals given fluoride experienced the opposite effect — hypoactivity or sluggishness. The toxic effects of fluoride on the central nervous system was subsequently confirmed by previously-classified government research. Two new epidemiological studies which tend to confirm fluoride’s neurotoxic effects on the brain have shown that children exposed to higher levels of fluoride had lower IQs.”

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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Bee Prepared »

dconrad000 wrote:Sweetwater14: You can throw me in a fiery furnace before I will ever allow you or anyone like you to inject me or any of my family with your evil, aborted-fetal-tissue-containing witches brew -- which is vaccines.
DITTO!!!

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caddis
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by caddis »

Bee Prepared wrote:
caddis wrote::D And Thx bee prepared for pointing out my poor grammar. I was in a hurry. Besides, English class was never my forte. :)
Your grammer is fine and I like your quick wit! ( except when it comes to my religion!) :p
:) Well, I will admit I need to tone it down a little when it comes to the church. Although there are a ton of things that bother me with the institution itself, I think the people (generally speaking) are some of the best people on earth.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Bee Prepared »

caddis wrote:
Bee Prepared wrote:
caddis wrote::D And Thx bee prepared for pointing out my poor grammar. I was in a hurry. Besides, English class was never my forte. :)
Your grammer is fine and I like your quick wit! ( except when it comes to my religion!) :p
:) Well, I will admit I need to tone it down a little when it comes to the church. Although there are a ton of things that bother me with the institution itself, I think the people (generally speaking) are some of the best people on earth.
I agree, " Some of the best people on earth!" I need to tone my remarks down a little too! I get angry, like on the " Teaching your daughter" post.
The crowd turned on me, I could have used some of your wit with that one.

I think " sweetwater 14" gave up! :D

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caddis
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by caddis »

It's easy to get angry when you are passionate about something. I struggle with that myself. :D

About your fluoride comment above. We bought a Berkey filter a few years ago and bought the fluoride filters as well. If you weren't already aware of them, you might want to check them out.

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Phoenixstar117
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Re: Does it do harm to opt to stop having your child vaccinated?

Post by Phoenixstar117 »

Image

Just take your shot, and be happy your an american. ;) ;)

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