Energy Healing Showdown

[Mcox]

I think it is interesting, that Brigham Young did not use the seer stones, Joseph Smith stopped using the Urim and Thumbim, after a while because he was able to receive revelation without them. We have no need of crystals etc because we have all we need. We have the fullness of the gospel and we have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and we have the very power of God on earth, the Priesthood. Nothing more is needed. It really is very simple. If the use of crystals is so beneficial to people, then why doesn't the church use them today? It's not a new discovery. The use of seer stones would of continued throughout the history of the church. But it did not. Why?
The ancient dark arts of Satan have been around from the beginning. Satan always has a counterfeit to Gods power and ways. If the Savior through His oragnization has not sanctioned the use of crystals, I'm not going to participate. The only sure way to discern if something is from God for our use, is if it has been authorized by those in authority with Preisthood keys.

[JohnnyL]

An address given by President Brigham Young, make of it what you will...

That's a typical anti-Mormon response. Ignore the hard questions, ignore discussion, throw some more spaghetti quotes against the wall and hope they stick...

[JohnnyL]

I think it is interesting, that Brigham Young did not use the seer stones, Joseph Smith stopped using the Urim and Thumbim, after a while because he was able to receive revelation without them. We have no need of crystals etc because we have all we need. We have the fullness of the gospel and we have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and we have the very power of God on earth, the Priesthood. Nothing more is needed. It really is very simple. If the use of crystals is so beneficial to people, then why doesn't the church use them today? It's not a new discovery. The use of seer stones would of continued throughout the history of the church. But it did not. Why?
The ancient dark arts of Satan have been around from the beginning. Satan always has a counterfeit to Gods power and ways. If the Savior through His oragnization has not sanctioned the use of crystals, I'm not going to participate. The only sure way to discern if something is from God for our use, is if it has been authorized by those in authority with Preisthood keys.

Some engagement, and good questions!

I don't agree with the last part, and neither do the church leaders. As they said, they are not in the business of condoning or sanctioning what we should and shouldn't be using. It's generally clear, I'd say, that we don't use Satan's ways to achieve God's ends. Like I've listed before, very few things in life have been sanctioned for use by the church (and I'll bet you haven't even used those). You do use hundreds of things every day that have not been sanctioned by "His organization".

I understand prophets et. al., but the scriptures (BoM, DC) provide ways to distinguish--and it's not through priesthood authority, but through the HG.

///
ONE question to all "the Priesthood is enough" believers: do you use medicine?

IF YES: whoops, you're a hypocrite!
IF NO: next question...

[Onsdag]

An address given by President Brigham Young, make of it what you will...

That's a typical anti-Mormon response. Ignore the hard questions, ignore discussion, throw some more spaghetti quotes against the wall and hope they stick...

Well, even though your assessment is completely wrong and off base, at least you're making of it what you will... :ymhug:

[JohnnyL]

An address given by President Brigham Young, make of it what you will...

That's a typical anti-Mormon response. Ignore the hard questions, ignore discussion, throw some more spaghetti quotes against the wall and hope they stick...

Well, even though your assessment is completely wrong and off base, at least you're making of it what you will... :ymhug:

Idk, let's see... Which question did you answer? Which part of the discussion were you engaging EH on? As pointed out (minimally) by Magus, is this not a spaghetti quote? How is it relevant? (I did notice how President Young said over and over to get the Spirit--not rely on the priesthood authority.)

[Onsdag]

An address given by President Brigham Young, make of it what you will...

That's a typical anti-Mormon response. Ignore the hard questions, ignore discussion, throw some more spaghetti quotes against the wall and hope they stick...

Well, even though your assessment is completely wrong and off base, at least you're making of it what you will... :ymhug:

Idk, let's see... Which question did you answer? Which part of the discussion were you engaging EH on? As pointed out (minimally) by Magus, is this not a spaghetti quote? How is it relevant? (I did notice how President Young said over and over to get the Spirit--not rely on the priesthood authority.)

One does not need to say anything in order to contribute to a discussion. Sometimes just posting a picture is enough to add to the discussion. For what it's worth, I felt led by the Holy Ghost to post that talk by Brigham Young. I'm not the teacher here. I'm certain that those who have the Holy Ghost with them will be able to discern and learn what they need to from the talk.

[Mcox]

Sadly, Western medicine today is defined as “pharmaceuticals and addictive drugs” and also surgery. Most people want to avoid those very two things so they search for alternatives. Thankfully God has a law of health and He has ordained “alternatives”. Actually, if we followed his law of health In the first place, in most cases, we would never need surgery or pills and we wouldn’t be seeking “alternatives”. His law of health requires us to follow the word of wisdom which isn’t just avoiding coffee, Tea, alcohol and other harmful drugs. We are to eat a diet filled with wholesome foods such as fruits, vegetables, grains and little to no meat. Most of the healthcare issues we face today are a direct result of our diets or disobedience to the word of wisdom. He has also ordained many plants and herbs that have medicinal properties as well that we have failed to take advantage of and instead put our trust in drugs made by pharmaceutical companies not doctors.
But western medicine is much more than just harmful drugs. If I break a bone, I am going to seek treatment from traditional medicine. If my child falls and cracks his head open, I am going to seek a traditional (western medicine) doctor to apply stitches.
Elder oaks said, "The use of medical science is not at odds with our prayers of faith and our reliance on priesthood blessings"
In contrast, energy work is an area of practice that claims to manipulate the electrical currents, forces, and fields in and around your body for the purpose of improved health. It’s one of the many controversial healing practices that originated from eastern philosophy.
Why is it controversial? We need to ask ourselves this question: When a practitioner is using energy upon which principle or law does he follow that allows him or her to manipulate ones energy? How does that practitioner define energy? How is he scientifically approaching that energy?? If energy is defined as “spirit” as it is by most LDS energy healers, how is energy healing not the channeling of spirits? And do you really think it is safe to allow someone to “tap” into your spirit and manipulate it even for the sake of health? That is the key difference. There is no universal spiritual law or scientific principle that allows or gives anyone authority to manipulate another’s “energy”. Does it work? Yes! Why? Because the adversary has power. In fact, it would be the adversary that wants us to give him or someone else permission to manipulate and change our energy our the energy around us.

[JohnnyL]

Sadly, Western medicine today is defined as “pharmaceuticals and addictive drugs” and also surgery. Most people want to avoid those very two things so they search for alternatives. Thankfully God has a law of health and He has ordained “alternatives”. Actually, if we followed his law of health In the first place, in most cases, we would never need surgery or pills and we wouldn’t be seeking “alternatives”. His law of health requires us to follow the word of wisdom which isn’t just avoiding coffee, Tea, alcohol and other harmful drugs. We are to eat a diet filled with wholesome foods such as fruits, vegetables, grains and little to no meat. Most of the healthcare issues we face today are a direct result of our diets or disobedience to the word of wisdom. He has also ordained many plants and herbs that have medicinal properties as well that we have failed to take advantage of and instead put our trust in drugs made by pharmaceutical companies not doctors.
But western medicine is much more than just harmful drugs. If I break a bone, I am going to seek treatment from traditional medicine. If my child falls and cracks his head open, I am going to seek a traditional (western medicine) doctor to apply stitches.
Elder oaks said, "The use of medical science is not at odds with our prayers of faith and our reliance on priesthood blessings"
In contrast, energy work is an area of practice that claims to manipulate the electrical currents, forces, and fields in and around your body for the purpose of improved health. It’s one of the many controversial healing practices that originated from eastern philosophy.
Why is it controversial? We need to ask ourselves this question: When a practitioner is using energy upon which principle or law does he follow that allows him or her to manipulate ones energy? How does that practitioner define energy? How is he scientifically approaching that energy?? If energy is defined as “spirit” as it is by most LDS energy healers, how is energy healing not the channeling of spirits? And do you really think it is safe to allow someone to “tap” into your spirit and manipulate it even for the sake of health? That is the key difference. There is no universal spiritual law or scientific principle that allows or gives anyone authority to manipulate another’s “energy”. Does it work? Yes! Why? Because the adversary has power. In fact, it would be the adversary that wants us to give him or someone else permission to manipulate and change our energy our the energy around us.

I've had better discussions with rabid JW's and BAC's. At least they weren't totally dishonest, neither did they claim to have the Spirit of God while being blinded.

You all really need to get the Spirit of God. :ymhug:

I guess some people can't see cognitive dissonance when it stares them in the face... @-)

[JohnnyL]

Official Statement from Hope Haven Events
Tammy Anderson Ward
Tuesday, September 27, 2016

Official Statement from Hope Haven Events

On August 9, 2016, Channel 2, KUTV news requested to come to our conference and also record an interview with Hope Haven Events as part of a story they were airing to promote awareness around ‘Christ-centered Energy Healing’. Comments and video segments were edited in a way that grossly misrepresented the purpose, position and efforts of Hope Haven Events. Some information included in the segment was not only misrepresented and exaggerated, it was completely untrue. We wish to set the record straight and pray that those who read this statement will feel the truthfulness of what is being said here.

Hope Haven Events is an education and events company. Among our events, is included the Christ-centered Energy Healing Conference. It has been hosted throughout the country for individuals interested in learning more about holistic health modalities. Complimentary modalities are sometimes referred to as energy modalities or energy healing modalities because they utilize various energy systems in the body, such as meridians, chakras, auras, etc. Many of these are recognized therapies that have been incorporated into clinics, hospitals, and treatment centers throughout the world because of their effectiveness. Energy healing is a tool for achieving optimal health. It is not a replacement for traditional medicine. It is not a replacement for church or faith. Many modalities have been practiced for thousands of years and have roots in Eastern Medicine. Energy healing is intended to be a supplement to improve health in holistic ways. Some of the treatments come across as foreign to those who are unfamiliar with those type of services like a surgeon’s methods may be foreign to someone who doesn’t know how to perform their work.

The name of the conference is a way for us to distinguish to our participants that the practitioners have a personal faith in Jesus Christ and recognize Him as the true source of all healing. It is not a modality itself. This event has never been targeted towards members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It has always been open to all, especially those who have a faith in Jesus Christ. We fully respect, love and appreciate all, no matter the religious affiliation or belief system they claim. We hope all will feel welcome. While we cannot speak for all Christ-centered Energy Healers, we will speak for the content taught and shared at our events. Hope Haven Events and our presenters do not use The Holy Priesthood during their services, at our conferences or in their modalities. We do not sell a remission of sins. We do not perform sacred ordinances. We do not promise miraculous healing.

Our 2-day conference provides an opportunity for individuals to be introduced to and instructed by professionals in a variety of complimentary and holistic health modalities including: The Emotion Code, The Healer’s BluePrint, Foot Zonology, Kinesiology, and Reiki among many others. Our presenters consist of parenting experts, writers, massage therapists, chiropractors, dentists, essential oils educators, foot zoners, reiki masters, light therapists, life coaches and other mentors. We also offer a variety of classes on forgiveness, fortitude, parenting, marriage and much more. A minimal admission fee of $25 is requested to cover expenses. For those who have attended holistic health conferences or professional development conferences you will recognize that our pricing is extremely affordable.

Furthermore, many energy workers do charge for their services, as do other occupations. They are providing a valuable service to clients and are compensated for their time and expertise. This is similar to what one would experience when hiring a life coach, a nutritionist, massage therapist or any other type of holistic practitioner. Energy Workers have invested time and financial resources into their education and in turn seek compensation for their time and expertise. The average cost for an energy session varies amongst practitioners, but is comparable to the cost of a massage. As in any industry, some are paid more and some are paid less depending on level of education & qualifications, amongst other things.

As the owner of Hope Haven Events, I wish to add my personal statement as well. I agree with the statement provided by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints about using caution. You should use caution in making all major decisions about your health and well-being. As an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I fully support and sustain the leaders of my faith. My desire and intention has always been to bring resources to families that will improve happiness and well-being. Our company mission statement is “to empower individuals, strengthen families and connect communities.” We hope that our events will always uplift and inspire.

The statements made by KUTV about charging $1,000 per hour for energy healing were inaccurate, and knowingly misrepresented. In addition to being trained in various modalities, I have received training from some of the country’s most recognized coaches, including Kirk Duncan, Bob Proctor, Brendon Burchard, Amy Walker and several others. Executives around the world recognize the value of mentors and coaches. The pricing quoted by Mr. Woodruff in his news piece represents my fees for many mentoring sessions over a one year time period along with thousands of dollars in additional value including event tickets, audio/video library access, group mentoring experiences, books and much more. Instead, Mr. Woodruff represented them as fees for healing and nothing else was said. During the interview, we corrected them on this issue. They chose to publish incorrect information knowingly.

Hope Haven Events deeply regrets the confusion caused by the Channel 2, KUTV news story. We offer support and love to all who are in this industry, no matter your religious affiliation or faith you associate yourself with. We recognize your valuable contribution to those around you and pray you will be able to hold your head up and keep going.

Tammy Anderson Ward
Hope Haven Events

[Sarah]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

[mirkwood]

The statements made by KUTV about charging $1,000 per hour for energy healing were inaccurate, and knowingly misrepresented.

What else is she being dishonest about?

[Mcox]

Tammy and Dr Nelson the wand master are total frauds. I thought the story was very accurate. I'm so glad the church made a statement about Christ centered energy healing. Stay away from it.

[JohnnyL]

Unless you're making a point I'm missing... You misread that ENTIRE article and its purpose?

[TrueIntent]

I think it is interesting, that Brigham Young did not use the seer stones, Joseph Smith stopped using the Urim and Thumbim, after a while because he was able to receive revelation without them. We have no need of crystals etc because we have all we need. We have the fullness of the gospel and we have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and we have the very power of God on earth, the Priesthood. Nothing more is needed. It really is very simple. If the use of crystals is so beneficial to people, then why doesn't the church use them today? It's not a new discovery. The use of seer stones would of continued throughout the history of the church. But it did not. Why?
The ancient dark arts of Satan have been around from the beginning. Satan always has a counterfeit to Gods power and ways. If the Savior through His oragnization has not sanctioned the use of crystals, I'm not going to participate. The only sure way to discern if something is from God for our use, is if it has been authorized by those in authority with Preisthood keys.

A bible a bible...we have a bible...nothing more is needed...Brigham young wore a bloodstone that he believed to posess powers. Boom!

[TrueIntent]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

Book of Mark

38 ¶And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

[TrueIntent]

Know your history people...it might help you access a greater truth...spend less time fighting, and more time learning. To be humble is to be teachable.

[e-eye2.0]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

I agree with what Bruce R McConkie said -

"Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).

The Savior’s answer to John, recorded in Mark 9:40, reassured John and the Twelve that the man was a disciple with authority, though not an Apostle."

God blesses all people, and answers prayers but the authority of the priesthood is only found in his church the power of the priesthood is up to us. Energy healing is is not Gods power nor does it carry any authority. If it's not God's power then who's power is it?

[TrueIntent]

Know your history people...it might help you access a greater truth...spend less time fighting, and more time learning. To be humble is to be teachable.

In Brigham Young’s own writings, he shared the following about seer stones in Dec. 27, 1841:

–27– I met with the Twelve at Brother Joseph’s. He conversed with us in a familiar manner on a variety of subjects, and explained to us the Urim and Thummim which he found with the plates, called in the Book of Mormon the Interpreters. He said that every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seerstone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness, and most of those who do find one make an evil use of it; he showed us his seerstone. (Brigham Young (1801-1877)Autobiography (1801-1844) in Manuscript History of Brigham Young Source: Manuscript History of Brigham Young, 1801-1844, ed. Elden Jay Watson (Salt Lake City: Smith Secretarial Service, 1968).

.....now...lets talk about this quote

[Sarah]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

Book of Mark

38 ¶And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

e-eye-2. beat me to it!! But I'll go ahead and post again.

Here's McConkie's explaination of that one:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).



You have to admit too, that energy healers do more than just go around freely healing or casting out devils. Some mix the Lord's name up with other words, signs and tokens.

Joseph Smith:

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

[TrueIntent]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

I agree with what Bruce R McConkie said -

"Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).

The Savior’s answer to John, recorded in Mark 9:40, reassured John and the Twelve that the man was a disciple with authority, though not an Apostle."

God blesses all people, and answers prayers but the authority of the priesthood is only found in his church the power of the priesthood is up to us. Energy healing is is not Gods power nor does it carry any authority. If it's not God's power then who's power is it?

So also thought the Apostle John and Bruce r. McConkie until the Savior corrected them with his simplistic response. Anytime we have to look up commentary to justify why basic scripture passages don't mesh with our paradigm, maybe we should look at our paradigm. ....by your own quote...McConkie was "suggesting" reasons why...because it conflicted with his views on where authority comes from....maybe his views were wrong and not the scriptures. Believe it or not, Bruce r. McConkie has been wrong before. I know, it's shocking....we are blind until we remove the beam.

[TrueIntent]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

Book of Mark

38 ¶And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

e-eye-2. beat me to it!! But I'll go ahead and post again.

Here's McConkie's explaination of that one:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).



You have to admit too, that energy healers do more than just go around freely healing or casting out devils. Some mix the Lord's name up with other words, signs and tokens.

Joseph Smith:

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

Until you understand Grace. Law of Moses vs law of Christ. There are no rules....Jesus healed by simply saying the words...you are healed. He didn't have to touch them. Yes...under the law of Moses, you are correct....once you come to Christ, the law of Moses is dead....and you heal like Christ.

[TrueIntent]

And yes!!!! The savior was correcting his own apostles...he did it all the time.

[Sarah]

Know your history people...it might help you access a greater truth...spend less time fighting, and more time learning. To be humble is to be teachable.

In Brigham Young’s own writings, he shared the following about seer stones in Dec. 27, 1841:

–27– I met with the Twelve at Brother Joseph’s. He conversed with us in a familiar manner on a variety of subjects, and explained to us the Urim and Thummim which he found with the plates, called in the Book of Mormon the Interpreters. He said that every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seerstone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness, and most of those who do find one make an evil use of it; he showed us his seerstone. (Brigham Young (1801-1877)Autobiography (1801-1844) in Manuscript History of Brigham Young Source: Manuscript History of Brigham Young, 1801-1844, ed. Elden Jay Watson (Salt Lake City: Smith Secretarial Service, 1968).

.....now...lets talk about this quote

"most of those who do find one make an evil use of it"

Sounds like the Lord prefers the people in general not use seerstones until he determines they are righteous and directs them to do so.

[Sarah]

D&C 63

60 Behold, I am Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ.

61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—

62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.

63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.

Damn straight....

However, it appears that, according to Christ...healing in his name is okay, even if you aren't a disciple.

Book of Mark

38 ¶And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

e-eye-2. beat me to it!! But I'll go ahead and post again.

Here's McConkie's explaination of that one:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested reasons for John’s concern by explaining that the man “was not one of the inner circle of disciples who traveled, ate, slept, and communed continually with the Master. Luke has it: ‘He followeth not with us’ [Luke 9:49; italics added]; that is, he is not one of our traveling companions. But from our Lord’s reply it is evident that he was a member of the kingdom, a legal administrator who was acting in the authority of the priesthood and the power of faith. Either he was unknown to John who therefore erroneously supposed him to be without authority or else John falsely supposed that the power to cast out devils was limited to the Twelve and did not extend to all faithful priesthood holders. It is quite possible that the one casting out devils was a seventy [see Luke 10:1, 17]” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:417).



You have to admit too, that energy healers do more than just go around freely healing or casting out devils. Some mix the Lord's name up with other words, signs and tokens.

Joseph Smith:

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

Until you understand Grace. Law of Moses vs law of Christ. There are no rules....Jesus healed by simply saying the words...you are healed. He didn't have to touch them. Yes...under the law of Moses, you are correct....once you come to Christ, the law of Moses is dead....and you heal like Christ.

Then you obviously disagree with J.S. here. He says the ancients Saints were ordered by the Lord to use this sign and they were not under the Law of Moses.

The purpose of having rules is to have order in the Church. It is so the true power of the Lord can be recognized. It doesn't mean someone can't be healed any other way. There is a story of a woman being healed just from touching the handkerchief of the prophet - she couldn't make it to see him but sent her children, and he gave her children his handkerchief, who brought it to her. It was her faith that healed her. But in the Lord's house there is always a best or preferred way. I made another post dealing with this issue in the forgiveness of sins thread.

There are many ways Satan is mimicking the Lord's ways, and you have to be aware and careful of what you choose to do.

[TrueIntent]

Wow...that doesn't sound good for Joseph smith....he initially used it to find treasure. You're right...we shouldn't go out on a limb and investigate this like Joseph did...it's too easy to be deceived. We're not strong enough. We will never be strong enough to be like God or to utilize the atonement to perfect our weaknesses. Like I said....a bible a bible ...we have got a bible...we are good.