Energy Healing Showdown

[Mcox]

Let me tell you what I think is spooky, freaky and completely ridiculous. So many members of the church are so doctrinally unsophisticated that they can't discern truth from error! For example, energy healers say, the brother of Jared used stones to light his boats, the prophet Joseph had a seer stone, so therefore crystals and stones are for our healing use. The difference is, those rocks where approved of by the Savior. He gave permission and power to use them. Energy healers take liberties by using them without permission and proper power/authority. Hyrum Page was able to receive "revelations" through a seer stone just like Joseph was doing. Joseph prayed to understand and was told that the unauthorized use of this stone by Hiram was not of God, but was of the devil. You see, Satan uses imitation and half truths to deceive the very elect. Authorization must be given by God and He goes through His prophets and leaders, God is a God of order. HIs power is the Priesthood.

[JohnnyL]

Let me tell you what I think is spooky, freaky and completely ridiculous. So many members of the church are so doctrinally unsophisticated that they can't discern truth from error! For example, energy healers say, the brother of Jared used stones to light his boats, the prophet Joseph had a seer stone, so therefore crystals and stones are for our healing use. The difference is, those rocks where approved of by the Savior. He gave permission and power to use them. Energy healers take liberties by using them without permission and proper power/authority. Hyrum Page was able to receive "revelations" through a seer stone just like Joseph was doing. Joseph prayed to understand and was told that the unauthorized use of this stone by Hiram was not of God, but was of the devil. You see, Satan uses imitation and half truths to deceive the very elect. Authorization must be given by God and He goes through His prophets and leaders, God is a God of order. HIs power is the Priesthood.

What does this have to do with anything previous? Are you saying that this is something you object to about EHers, or about people who quote examples of scriptures to support crystals and stones for healing, or about people who use crystals and stones for healing?

Which EHers say that? And what % is that?

Hey, something to think about, is this spooky, freaky, and/ or completely ridiculous?
*Joseph Smith, Sr: [Joseph Smith, Jr.] claims and believes that there is a [seer] stone of this quality, somewhere, for every one.

*Brigham Young: The seer stone which Joseph Smith first obtained He got in an Iron kettle 25 feet under ground. He saw it while looking in another seers stone which a person had. He went right to the spot & dug & found it.

*[Joseph Smith, Jr. said] every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness.

Mcox, where is your seerstone? Do you not have one? Is the reason because of your wickedness? :ymdevil: :)) (J/J) If someone DID have a seer stone, would that make them righteous or wicked?

[JohnnyL]

WHat is one to make of this?:

"You never felt a pain and ache, or felt disagreeable, or uncomfortable in your bodies and minds, but what an evil spirit was present causing it. Do you realize that the ague, the fever, the chills, the severe pain in the head, the pleurisy, or any pain in the system, from the crown of the head to the soles of the feet, is put there by the devil? You do not realize this, do you?

I say but little about this matter, because I do not want you to realize it. When you have the rheumatism, do you realize that the devil put that upon you? No, but you say, “I got wet, caught cold, and thereby got the rheumatism.” The spirits that afflict us and plant disease in our bodies, pain in the system, and finally death, have control over us so far as the flesh is concerned. "

--Brigham Young
http://jod.mrm.org/4/129" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DesertWonderer]

It's so sad that members of the restored gospel have been deceived by this evil and false practice.

Food for thought:

Chapter 30
Korihor, the anti-Christ, ridicules Christ, the Atonement, and the spirit of prophecy—He teaches that there is no God, no fall of man, no penalty for sin, and no Christ—Alma testifies that Christ will come and that all things denote there is a God—Korihor demands a sign and is struck dumb—The devil had appeared to Korihor as an angel and taught him what to say—Korihor is trodden down and dies. About 76–74 B.C.

1 Behold, now it came to pass that after the people of Ammon were established in the land of Jershon, yea, and also after the Lamanites were driven out of the land, and their dead were buried by the people of the land—

2 Now their dead were not numbered because of the greatness of their numbers; neither were the dead of the Nephites numbered—but it came to pass after they had buried their dead, and also after the days of fasting, and mourning, and prayer, (and it was in the sixteenth year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi) there began to be continual peace throughout all the land.

3 Yea, and the people did observe to keep the commandments of the Lord; and they were strict in observing the ordinances of God, according to the law of Moses; for they were taught to keep the law of Moses until it should be fulfilled.

4 And thus the people did have no disturbance in all the sixteenth year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi.

5 And it came to pass that in the commencement of the seventeenth year of the reign of the judges, there was continual peace.

6 But it came to pass in the latter end of the seventeenth year, there came a man into the land of Zarahemla, and he was Anti-Christ, for he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets, concerning the coming of Christ.

7 Now there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.

8 For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve.

9 Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him.

10 But if he murdered he was punished unto death; and if he robbed he was also punished; and if he stole he was also punished; and if he committed adultery he was also punished; yea, for all this wickedness they were punished.

11 For there was a law that men should be judged according to their crimes. Nevertheless, there was no law against a man’s belief; therefore, a man was punished only for the crimes which he had done; therefore all men were on equal grounds.

12 And this Anti-Christ, whose name was Korihor, (and the law could have no hold upon him) began to preach unto the people that there should be no Christ. And after this manner did he preach, saying:

13 O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things? Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come.

14 Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers.

15 How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; therefore ye cannot know that there shall be a Christ.

16 Ye look forward and say that ye see a remission of your sins. But behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers, which lead you away into a belief of things which are not so.

17 And many more such things did he say unto them, telling them that there could be no atonement made for the sins of men, but every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature; therefore every man prospered according to his genius, and that every man conquered according to his strength; and whatsoever a man did was no crime.

18 And thus he did preach unto them, leading away the hearts of many, causing them to lift up their heads in their wickedness, yea, leading away many women, and also men, to commit whoredoms—telling them that when a man was dead, that was the end thereof.

19 Now this man went over to the land of Jershon also, to preach these things among the people of Ammon, who were once the people of the Lamanites.

20 But behold they were more wise than many of the Nephites; for they took him, and bound him, and carried him before Ammon, who was a high priest over that people.

21 And it came to pass that he caused that he should be carried out of the land. And he came over into the land of Gideon, and began to preach unto them also; and here he did not have much success, for he was taken and bound and carried before the high priest, and also the chief judge over the land.

22 And it came to pass that the high priest said unto him: Why do ye go about perverting the ways of the Lord? Why do ye teach this people that there shall be no Christ, to interrupt their rejoicings? Why do ye speak against all the prophecies of the holy prophets?

23 Now the high priest’s name was Giddonah. And Korihor said unto him: Because I do not teach the foolish traditions of your fathers, and because I do not teach this people to bind themselves down under the foolish ordinances and performances which are laid down by ancient priests, to usurp power and authority over them, to keep them in ignorance, that they may not lift up their heads, but be brought down according to thy words.

24 Ye say that this people is a free people. Behold, I say they are in bondage. Ye say that those ancient prophecies are true. Behold, I say that ye do not know that they are true.

25 Ye say that this people is a guilty and a fallen people, because of the transgression of a parent. Behold, I say that a child is not guilty because of its parents.

26 And ye also say that Christ shall come. But behold, I say that ye do not know that there shall be a Christ. And ye say also that he shall be slain for the sins of the world—

27 And thus ye lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers, and according to your own desires; and ye keep them down, even as it were in bondage, that ye may glut yourselves with the labors of their hands, that they durst not look up with boldness, and that they durst not enjoy their rights and privileges.

28 Yea, they durst not make use of that which is their own lest they should offend their priests, who do yoke them according to their desires, and have brought them to believe, by their traditions and their dreams and their whims and their visions and their pretended mysteries, that they should, if they did not do according to their words, offend some unknown being, who they say is God—a being who never has been seen or known, who never was nor ever will be.

29 Now when the high priest and the chief judge saw the hardness of his heart, yea, when they saw that he would revile even against God, they would not make any reply to his words; but they caused that he should be bound; and they delivered him up into the hands of the officers, and sent him to the land of Zarahemla, that he might be brought before Alma, and the chief judge who was governor over all the land.

30 And it came to pass that when he was brought before Alma and the chief judge, he did go on in the same manner as he did in the land of Gideon; yea, he went on to blaspheme.

31 And he did rise up in great swelling words before Alma, and did revile against the priests and teachers, accusing them of leading away the people after the silly traditions of their fathers, for the sake of glutting on the labors of the people.

32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people.

33 And notwithstanding the many labors which I have performed in the church, I have never received so much as even one senine for my labor; neither has any of my brethren, save it were in the judgment-seat; and then we have received only according to law for our time.

34 And now, if we do not receive anything for our labors in the church, what doth it profit us to labor in the church save it were to declare the truth, that we may have rejoicings in the joy of our brethren?

35 Then why sayest thou that we preach unto this people to get gain, when thou, of thyself, knowest that we receive no gain? And now, believest thou that we deceive this people, that causes such joy in their hearts?

36 And Korihor answered him, Yea.

37 And then Alma said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God?

38 And he answered, Nay.

39 Now Alma said unto him: Will ye deny again that there is a God, and also deny the Christ? For behold, I say unto you, I know there is a God, and also that Christ shall come.

40 And now what evidence have ye that there is no God, or that Christ cometh not? I say unto you that ye have none, save it be your word only.

41 But, behold, I have all things as a testimony that these things are true; and ye also have all things as a testimony unto you that they are true; and will ye deny them? Believest thou that these things are true?

42 Behold, I know that thou believest, but thou art possessed with a lying spirit, and ye have put off the Spirit of God that it may have no place in you; but the devil has power over you, and he doth carry you about, working devices that he may destroy the children of God.

43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words.

44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.

45 And yet do ye go about, leading away the hearts of this people, testifying unto them there is no God? And yet will ye deny against all these witnesses? And he said: Yea, I will deny, except ye shall show me a sign.

46 And now it came to pass that Alma said unto him: Behold, I am grieved because of the hardness of your heart, yea, that ye will still resist the spirit of the truth, that thy soul may be destroyed.

47 But behold, it is better that thy soul should be lost than that thou shouldst be the means of bringing many souls down to destruction, by thy lying and by thy flattering words; therefore if thou shalt deny again, behold God shall smite thee, that thou shalt become dumb, that thou shalt never open thy mouth any more, that thou shalt not deceive this people any more.

48 Now Korihor said unto him: I do not deny the existence of a God, but I do not believe that there is a God; and I say also, that ye do not know that there is a God; and except ye show me a sign, I will not believe.

49 Now Alma said unto him: This will I give unto thee for a sign, that thou shalt be struck dumb, according to my words; and I say, that in the name of God, ye shall be struck dumb, that ye shall no more have utterance.

50 Now when Alma had said these words, Korihor was struck dumb, that he could not have utterance, according to the words of Alma.

51 And now when the chief judge saw this, he put forth his hand and wrote unto Korihor, saying: Art thou convinced of the power of God? In whom did ye desire that Alma should show forth his sign? Would ye that he should afflict others, to show unto thee a sign? Behold, he has showed unto you a sign; and now will ye dispute more?

52 And Korihor put forth his hand and wrote, saying: I know that I am dumb, for I cannot speak; and I know that nothing save it were the power of God could bring this upon me; yea, and I always knew that there was a God.

53 But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me.

54 Now when he had said this, he besought that Alma should pray unto God, that the curse might be taken from him.

55 But Alma said unto him: If this curse should be taken from thee thou wouldst again lead away the hearts of this people; therefore, it shall be unto thee even as the Lord will.

56 And it came to pass that the curse was not taken off of Korihor; but he was cast out, and went about from house to house begging for his food.

57 Now the knowledge of what had happened unto Korihor was immediately published throughout all the land; yea, the proclamation was sent forth by the chief judge to all the people in the land, declaring unto those who had believed in the words of Korihor that they must speedily repent, lest the same judgments would come unto them.

58 And it came to pass that they were all convinced of the wickedness of Korihor; therefore they were all converted again unto the Lord; and this put an end to the iniquity after the manner of Korihor. And Korihor did go about from house to house, begging food for his support.

59 And it came to pass that as he went forth among the people, yea, among a people who had separated themselves from the Nephites and called themselves Zoramites, being led by a man whose name was Zoram—and as he went forth amongst them, behold, he was run upon and trodden down, even until he was dead.

60 And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell.

[JohnnyL]

It's so sad that members of the restored gospel have been deceived by this evil and false practice.

Food for thought:

Chapter 30

WOW. Hey, let me ignore every question posed to me, avoid any type of dialogue that shows I have no real idea about what the topic is, then throw up a completely useless opinion, and throw up any completely unrelated scripture, and see if they both stick to the wall in the same spot. Someone give me half a brain so I can understand what's going on... :-w

DW, I only think it's sad to you that someone has a different opinion than you.

BTW, why do you believe that President Benson was deceived?

[Mcox]

Johnny, opinion has nothing to do with it. What we are talking about is corruption of true doctrines. Mingling scriptures with the philosophies of men.

[JohnnyL]

Johnny, opinion has nothing to do with it. What we are talking about is corruption of true doctrines. Mingling scriptures with the philosophies of men.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

It's so sad that members of the restored gospel have been deceived by this evil and false practice.

That is an opinion.
Show me otherwise. Lay out an actual argument for your position. Anyone. Without using rumors, hearsay, "this is what they said, but they actually meant (my interpretation)", and spaghetti-on-the-wall scriptures. And, please read the "Communication and dialogue" post first.

[GrandMasterB]

Johnny, opinion has nothing to do with it. What we are talking about is corruption of true doctrines. Mingling scriptures with the philosophies of men.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

It's so sad that members of the restored gospel have been deceived by this evil and false practice.

That is an opinion.
Show me otherwise. Lay out an actual argument for your position. Anyone. Without using rumors, hearsay, "this is what they said, but they actually meant (my interpretation)", and spaghetti-on-the-wall scriptures. And, please read the "Communication and dialogue" post first.

Actually I have a couple sources where the apostles had said energy healing are a product of unholy spirits. Here is one from Parley P. Pratt. He clearly associates energy healing to unholy spirits.

There is still another class of unholy spirits
at work in the world, spirits diverse from all
these, far more intelligent, and, if possible, still
more dangerous. These are the spirit of divina-
tion, vision, foretelling, familiar spirits, "animal
magnetism," or "mesmerism," etc., which reveal
some important truths mixed with the greatest
errors, and also display much intelligence, but
have not the keys of the science of Theology,
the holy Priesthood.

- Science of Theology page 112

Mesmerism is synonymous with Energy Healing. They didn't have this term in Parley's Day.

http://reikienergyperth.com.au/mesmeris ... y-healing/

[GrandMasterB]

Johnny, opinion has nothing to do with it. What we are talking about is corruption of true doctrines. Mingling scriptures with the philosophies of men.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

It's so sad that members of the restored gospel have been deceived by this evil and false practice.

That is an opinion.
Show me otherwise. Lay out an actual argument for your position. Anyone. Without using rumors, hearsay, "this is what they said, but they actually meant (my interpretation)", and spaghetti-on-the-wall scriptures. And, please read the "Communication and dialogue" post first.

Here is another source for you JohnnyL.

This is believed to be John Taylor who wrote this.

He (speaking of Satan) presides over the arts of astrology, clairvoyance, mesmerism, electro-biology, and all auguries and divinations. Being Prince of the power of the air he understands aeronautic and steam navigation, and he can compose and combine the various elements, through the co-operation of them that believe in him, with far more that human skill.

The Coming Crisis & How to Meet It - Millennial Star, 30 April 1853

Again electro-biology and mesmerism are mentioned. Both are components of energy work philosophies. Go ahead and discount this too. I know you will.

[JohnnyL]

I guess that balances BY saying doctors are from hell. ;)

I'd say had they actually understood things, they wouldn't have said that. Had they actually been to or deeply inquired or discussed any of them? No. By the way, what is electro-biology?

And I guess this: "Being Prince of the power of the air he understands aeronautic and steam navigation, and he can compose and combine the various elements, through the co-operation of them that believe in him, with far more that human skill." means that anything that flies, and anything that uses steam, are of Satan, too?

Pleas show how the majority of EH use mesmerism.

There you go again... EH is not a hologram. There are many types. I know you still don't understand this, but neither do the other anti-EHers, either. It's like attacking LDS because of the FLDS...

[Rachael]

If we humans actually have any power within ourselves, maybe EH wouldn't be so bad. I don't think we do, and that we borrow energy. We are nothing but dust of the earth. Be sure about the creditor you're borrowing from.

[Rachael]

I guess that balances BY saying doctors are from hell. ;)

I'd say had they actually understood things, they wouldn't have said that. Had they actually been to or deeply inquired or discussed any of them? No. By the way, what is electro-biology?

And I guess this: "Being Prince of the power of the air he understands aeronautic and steam navigation, and he can compose and combine the various elements, through the co-operation of them that believe in him, with far more that human skill." means that anything that flies, and anything that uses steam, are of Satan, too?

Pleas show how the majority of EH use mesmerism.

There you go again... EH is not a hologram. There are many types. I know you still don't understand this, but neither do the other anti-EHers, either. It's like attacking LDS because of the FLDS...

BY said lots of stuff. I don't care for much of his pearls of a word I can't say here. Doctors can be good and/or bad like everyone else. Humans inherently can be good and/or bad. Who gave us electrobiology anyway or chakras? Who gave us agency to use them either way? If we can use science and clone unnatural things, the adversary certainly can. False healings too. And being electrobiological beings, maybe we are just living in a holographic existence. Nobody knows except God and the devil. But if I'm a hologram, I want a good holodeck program in eternity

[GrandMasterB]

Johnny, opinion has nothing to do with it. What we are talking about is corruption of true doctrines. Mingling scriptures with the philosophies of men.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

It's so sad that members of the restored gospel have been deceived by this evil and false practice.

That is an opinion.
Show me otherwise. Lay out an actual argument for your position. Anyone. Without using rumors, hearsay, "this is what they said, but they actually meant (my interpretation)", and spaghetti-on-the-wall scriptures. And, please read the "Communication and dialogue" post first.

Here is another source for you JohnnyL.

This is believed to be John Taylor who wrote this.

He (speaking of Satan) presides over the arts of astrology, clairvoyance, mesmerism, electro-biology, and all auguries and divinations. Being Prince of the power of the air he understands aeronautic and steam navigation, and he can compose and combine the various elements, through the co-operation of them that believe in him, with far more that human skill.

The Coming Crisis & How to Meet It - Millennial Star, 30 April 1853

Again electro-biology and mesmerism are mentioned. Both are components of energy work philosophies. Go ahead and discount this too. I know you will.

Just google electro-biology and energy healing together. I shouldn't have to do this for you. BTW Brigham Young was correct. Once the doctors came to town the saints began to rely less and less on the Priesthood. Now look at the saints. We used to look to the priesthood first for healing and then to doctors or in your case energy work. Now we call upon the priesthood as a last resort. I can see clearly why BY made these comments.

[Rachael]

Johnny, opinion has nothing to do with it. What we are talking about is corruption of true doctrines. Mingling scriptures with the philosophies of men.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

It's so sad that members of the restored gospel have been deceived by this evil and false practice.

That is an opinion.
Show me otherwise. Lay out an actual argument for your position. Anyone. Without using rumors, hearsay, "this is what they said, but they actually meant (my interpretation)", and spaghetti-on-the-wall scriptures. And, please read the "Communication and dialogue" post first.

Here is another source for you JohnnyL.

This is believed to be John Taylor who wrote this.

He (speaking of Satan) presides over the arts of astrology, clairvoyance, mesmerism, electro-biology, and all auguries and divinations. Being Prince of the power of the air he understands aeronautic and steam navigation, and he can compose and combine the various elements, through the co-operation of them that believe in him, with far more that human skill.

The Coming Crisis & How to Meet It - Millennial Star, 30 April 1853

Again electro-biology and mesmerism are mentioned. Both are components of energy work philosophies. Go ahead and discount this too. I know you will.

Just google electro-biology and energy healing together. I shouldn't have to do this for you. BTW Brigham Young was correct. Once the doctors came to town the saints began to rely less and less on the Priesthood. Now look at the saints. We used to look to the priesthood first for healing and then to doctors or in your case energy work. Now we call upon the priesthood as a last resort. I can see clearly why BY made these comments.

Morley Farm restoration of PH is why I make my comments. And BY's Reformation.Just google it. I shouldn't have to do this for you.

[JohnnyL]

So once more, we are being selective about what we accept and what we reject. Here, look up cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. Why do I always have to do your work for you, guys? (Boy, that sounds lame, huh?)

No, BY did not say that for the reasons you mention. Your reasons contradict what he also taught about healing, which has been brought up multiple times on this forum. Please remember--not sure why I have to do this for you, I shouldn't, you should be able to do this yourself. (That sounds lame again, huh?)

And once more, there was selective response to which questions to answer, and which to avoid. I shouldn't have to remind you to respond to questions, even ones that make you look bad, should I? (Wow, three times lame!)

[JohnnyL]

So Rachel, I think you are starting to understand that "energy is neutral", so to say, or in better words, it can be used for both good and bad. Good, you're ahead of many in the anti-EH group, now.

I understand that of course you believe that bad healing with energy is possible.

Do you believe that good healing with energy is possible?
Or do you believe that unlike every other form of energy, and every other duality (lots of ways to use electrical energy/electricity, for example, in both good and bad ways), this is limited in that only through priesthood can energy be used for good healing? If so, why the limit here, but not in other dualities?

[DesertWonderer]

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"The word of the Lord as found in the Holy Scriptures should be the standard by which we judge truth from error. We are consistently warned that the philosophies of men would be very well accepted in this world. However, God's word is the source of all truth.
Whenever I am presented with a new idea I always ask myself. Is this teaching presented in the scriptures? Is it a philosophy of men mingled with scripture or is it a pure truth. If it is not a doctrine taught by Christ or His apostles in the scriptures I know that I can reject that idea as a philosophy of men so that I am not deceived.
You will never read the following words or phrases or teachings in any of the doctrines of Christ or in any book of scripture.
I am sending you positive vibes.
Raise your vibration.
Put it out to the universe and what your positive thoughts focus on you will receive.
The law of attraction
Energy healing
Conscious creator
Co creator with God
Tap into another's energy
Astral projection
Trapped emotions
And etc.
These are not Christ centered teachings."

[JohnnyL]

Sorry, that's lame reasoning. Do you read "dentist" in the scriptures? Do you read "cell phone" or "computer" in the scriptures? Do you read any of 1,000's of things in the scriptures? Hello!! I guess that means you don't have a cell phone, a computer, or go to a dentist. Otherwise, your reasoning is wrong, or you are a hypocrite--which?

The apocrypha--God and man's words, mixed. None of that is in the scriptures, except God saying parts of it are. So are you going to throw out God's word, because it's not in the scriptures? Do we throw out EVERY truth that is not in the scriptures? :-\

[DesertWonderer]

Isa 8:19
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Acts 16:16
And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

Genesis 41:24
And the thin ears devoured the seven good ears: and I told this unto the magicians; but there was none that could declare it to me.

Leviticus 19:31
Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6
And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

1 Samuel 28:8
And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

2 Kings 21:6
And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

2 Kings 23:24
Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.

[DesertWonderer]

Sorry, that's lame reasoning. Do you read "dentist" in the scriptures? Do you read "cell phone" or "computer" in the scriptures? Do you read any of 1,000's of things in the scriptures? Hello!! I guess that means you don't have a cell phone, a computer, or go to a dentist. Otherwise, your reasoning is wrong, or you are a hypocrite--which?

The apocrypha--God and man's words, mixed. None of that is in the scriptures, except God saying parts of it are. So are you going to throw out God's word, because it's not in the scriptures? Do we throw out EVERY truth that is not in the scriptures? :-\

You make a very good point and logically, you would be correct except that the things you listed as example have nothing do with spiritual matters nor were they technologies at the time the scriptures were written. ER supposedly is spiritual and if it were it would've been practiced by the saints in the scriptural days.

[JohnnyL]

Sorry, that's lame reasoning. Do you read "dentist" in the scriptures? Do you read "cell phone" or "computer" in the scriptures? Do you read any of 1,000's of things in the scriptures? Hello!! I guess that means you don't have a cell phone, a computer, or go to a dentist. Otherwise, your reasoning is wrong, or you are a hypocrite--which?

The apocrypha--God and man's words, mixed. None of that is in the scriptures, except God saying parts of it are. So are you going to throw out God's word, because it's not in the scriptures? Do we throw out EVERY truth that is not in the scriptures? :-\

You make a very good point and logically, you would be correct except that the things you listed as example have nothing do with spiritual matters nor were they technologies at the time the scriptures were written. ER supposedly is spiritual and if it were it would've been practiced by the saints in the scriptural days.

Hi DesertWonderer,

Could you be kind enough to relate any of those scriptures to EH? I fear it feels like yet another round of spaghetti scriptures...

Could you respond to the Apocrypha question, please? Then I would feel better about discussing the last part of your post.

[Sarah]

So Rachel, I think you are starting to understand that "energy is neutral", so to say, or in better words, it can be used for both good and bad. Good, you're ahead of many in the anti-EH group, now.

I understand that of course you believe that bad healing with energy is possible.

Do you believe that good healing with energy is possible?
Or do you believe that unlike every other form of energy, and every other duality (lots of ways to use electrical energy/electricity, for example, in both good and bad ways), this is limited in that only through priesthood can energy be used for good healing? If so, why the limit here, but not in other dualities?

I agree with Rachael's earlier post that we ourselves are not controlling the energy by our thoughts. I think it is either good or bad spirits doing the work on the other side, and you are choosing which side you're going to use. The danger is when you start relying on the wrong source for something that appears to do good.

My take on your questions is that Satan has his bounds, but he is given some freedom to manipulate energy and the elements, just as God can through the Priesthood. It's obvious that Satan can make people feel good, and heal to some extent. BY said as much, and I know just from talking with others that Satan can lift or take away pains or conditions that plagued people, but I have to ask the question, what side is making that condition bad in the first place?

God has ordained signs and tokens for HIS healing power. Satan has devised his own signs and tokens. The question is whose signs and token are you going to use?

Joseph Smith -

"Baptism is a sign to God, to angels, to heaven, that we do the will of God and there is no other way beneath the heavens whereby God hath ordained for man to come, and any other course is in vain. God hath decreed and ordained that man should repent of all his sins and be baptized for the remission of his sins; then he can come to God in the name of Jesus Christ in faith, then we have the promise of the Holy Ghost.

"What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James and the custom of the ancient saints as ordered by the Lord. And we should not obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way which God has marked out. What if we should attempt to get the Holy Ghost through any other means except the sign, or way, which God hath appointed? Should we obtain it? Certainly not. All other means would fail. The Lord says, do so and so and I will bless so and so.

"There are certain key words and signs belonging to the priesthood which must be observed in order to obtain the blessings. The sign of Peter was to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, with the promise of the gift of the Holy Ghost, and in no other way is the gift of the Holy Ghost obtained."

[DesertWonderer]

Sorry, that's lame reasoning. Do you read "dentist" in the scriptures? Do you read "cell phone" or "computer" in the scriptures? Do you read any of 1,000's of things in the scriptures? Hello!! I guess that means you don't have a cell phone, a computer, or go to a dentist. Otherwise, your reasoning is wrong, or you are a hypocrite--which?

The apocrypha--God and man's words, mixed. None of that is in the scriptures, except God saying parts of it are. So are you going to throw out God's word, because it's not in the scriptures? Do we throw out EVERY truth that is not in the scriptures? :-\

You make a very good point and logically, you would be correct except that the things you listed as example have nothing do with spiritual matters nor were they technologies at the time the scriptures were written. ER supposedly is spiritual and if it were it would've been practiced by the saints in the scriptural days.

Hi DesertWonderer,

Could you be kind enough to relate any of those scriptures to EH? All of them do ex:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epPqhPQ ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or "DR" Nelson the father of emotion code and his magical Amega wand

Could you respond to the Apocrypha question, please? Then I would feel better about discussing the last part of your post.
Here's what I think about the apocrypha:

D^C 91: 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha—There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;

2 There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men.

3 Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated.

4 Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;

5 And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom;

6 And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen.

I hope you not trying to compare the apocrypha to EC. A better comparison would be EC to Playboy: There is excellent political commentary therein. Do you really want / need / out to wade through the garbage to get the one gem? No.

[JohnnyL]

So Rachel, I think you are starting to understand that "energy is neutral", so to say, or in better words, it can be used for both good and bad. Good, you're ahead of many in the anti-EH group, now.

I understand that of course you believe that bad healing with energy is possible.

Do you believe that good healing with energy is possible?
Or do you believe that unlike every other form of energy, and every other duality (lots of ways to use electrical energy/electricity, for example, in both good and bad ways), this is limited in that only through priesthood can energy be used for good healing? If so, why the limit here, but not in other dualities?

I agree with Rachael's earlier post that we ourselves are not controlling the energy by our thoughts. I think it is either good or bad spirits doing the work on the other side, and you are choosing which side you're going to use. The danger is when you start relying on the wrong source for something that appears to do good.
May I ask, "spirits doing" WHAT "work on the other side"?
What part does the light of Christ play? Here's an article for you: http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds ... 6/zpe.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My take on your questions is that Satan has his bounds, but he is given some freedom to manipulate energy and the elements, just as God can through the Priesthood. It's obvious that Satan can make people feel good, and heal to some extent. BY said as much, and I know just from talking with others that Satan can lift or take away pains or conditions that plagued people, but I have to ask the question, what side is making that condition bad in the first place?

God has ordained signs and tokens for HIS healing power. Satan has devised his own signs and tokens. The question is whose signs and token are you going to use?
That's only if you're going to use one of those two. There are many more spirits/ manifestations.

I think this has been mentioned numerous, numerous times, but it's still not getting understood: EH is not priesthood healing. Is that clear?

Let me ask the question clearer: Do you believe that good healing, other than with the priesthood, with energy, is possible? If so, how do you distinguish this good healing from bad healing?

Or do you believe that unlike every other form of energy, and every other duality (lots of ways to use electrical energy/electricity, for example, in both good and bad ways), this is limited in that only through priesthood can energy be used for good healing? If so, why the limit here, but not in other dualities?

[JohnnyL]

Sorry, that's lame reasoning. Do you read "dentist" in the scriptures? Do you read "cell phone" or "computer" in the scriptures? Do you read any of 1,000's of things in the scriptures? Hello!! I guess that means you don't have a cell phone, a computer, or go to a dentist. Otherwise, your reasoning is wrong, or you are a hypocrite--which?

The apocrypha--God and man's words, mixed. None of that is in the scriptures, except God saying parts of it are. So are you going to throw out God's word, because it's not in the scriptures? Do we throw out EVERY truth that is not in the scriptures? :-\

You make a very good point and logically, you would be correct except that the things you listed as example have nothing do with spiritual matters nor were they technologies at the time the scriptures were written. ER supposedly is spiritual and if it were it would've been practiced by the saints in the scriptural days.

Hi DesertWonderer,

Could you be kind enough to relate any of those scriptures to EH? All of them do ex:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epPqhPQ ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or "DR" Nelson the father of emotion code and his magical Amega wand

Could you respond to the Apocrypha question, please? Then I would feel better about discussing the last part of your post.
Here's what I think about the apocrypha:

D^C 91: 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha—There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;

2 There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men.

3 Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated.

4 Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;

5 And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom;

6 And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen.

I hope you not trying to compare the apocrypha to EC. A better comparison would be EC to Playboy: There is excellent political commentary therein. Do you really want / need / out to wade through the garbage to get the one gem? No.

You're claiming you threw all those scriptures against the wall, and every one stuck?? Ha ha. =))

Of course I am comparing the Apocrypha to EH. (I'm not sure what EC is, could you clarify?) And it works very well, though you, of course, can't get it. ;)