BodyTalk therapy questions

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ready2prepare
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by ready2prepare »

deepdoctrine wrote:It's going to be a difficult/uncomfortable discussion
when I have to explain why I am not setting up
additional appointments. I don't think the practitioner
will appreciate me telling her that I believe this stuff is
real, but may not necessarily be from our Heavenly Father.
Any suggestion on how you would tell the practitioner
(member of the church) who believes & has a testimony
of this - that they may are possibly being deceived?
Energy healing, energy therapy, call it what you
will--it is real and it works for anyone sufficiently
trained to use it. I speak from my own personal
experience.

Likewise, electricity is real, too, and it works for
anyone sufficiently trained to use it.

These are natural forces that follow natural laws,
and all that is required to use any of them is
sufficient instruction and practice. Where that
"instruction" comes from doesn't matter, and
therein lies the problem....for with the acquisition
of any kind of power (natural, man-made or directly
bestowed by God) comes the temptation to use it
contrary to the will of God, and when that is done
the Holy Spirit MUST leave, leaving the user open to
the influence of the Dark Side--to deception--big time.
Been there, done that, worn the tee-shirt, refuse to
do it again.

I hope this helps someone.

Best Regards,
Sharon in Mississippi

Rand
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Posts: 2472

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Rand »

Okay, this turned into a "Rant", read at your own risk.
Sharon, I have to agree. I read these posts with some interest. I am not involved with Body Talk, but I do do acupuncture and am a practicing Chiropractor. I find it fascinating that I find amazing doctrinal convergences in Acupuncture, chiropractic and The Gospel of Jesus Christ. However, I find no true "principle" involved in western medicine at all. Nearly the entire practice of medicine is stifling symptoms with drugs, at the expense of learning and growing through the afflictions life brings. Yet, the church culturally embraces medicine as a whole with no questions asked.

Brigham Young was a great detractor to medicine as a practice. Yet today we revere it's practice above the Priesthood blessing, if I understand Elder Oaks recent talk. Can someone shed some light on this contradiction to me? Why is energy medicine bad, but chemical medicine is good? Why is it bad to get a tattoo but good to have an organ surgically hacked out? Or, I can get botox, and a breast enhancement and that is okay, but not an energy treatment, because that is of the devil?

Why not extra ear rings, but we can have a knee we abused and didn't care for properly replaced, and that is okay? Help me out? I have such a hard time with these sweeping condemnations and acceptations that seem to be going on. Why don't we have to fast and pray before we go to our internist? Why is it we can go to our internist who was inspired to go into medicine and we can pay him, and that is okay, but not our energy healer? Why can that not be a course someone is inspired to pursue?

I just don't get it. Some here can spot a conspiracy theory a mile away with 9/11, or the Fed, but this doesn't stink to you? Big Pharma has now been deemed holy, and everything else evil. Sheesh. In my opinion, Satan gets way more mileage from antidepressants, as far as limiting eternal progress, than he does from any and all forms of energy work put together.

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Jason
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Jason »

Rand wrote:Okay, this turned into a "Rant", read at your own risk.
Sharon, I have to agree. I read these posts with some interest. I am not involved with Body Talk, but I do do acupuncture and am a practicing Chiropractor. I find it fascinating that I find amazing doctrinal convergences in Acupuncture, chiropractic and The Gospel of Jesus Christ. However, I find no true "principle" involved in western medicine at all. Nearly the entire practice of medicine is stifling symptoms with drugs, at the expense of learning and growing through the afflictions life brings. Yet, the church culturally embraces medicine as a whole with no questions asked.

Brigham Young was a great detractor to medicine as a practice. Yet today we revere it's practice above the Priesthood blessing, if I understand Elder Oaks recent talk. Can someone shed some light on this contradiction to me? Why is energy medicine bad, but chemical medicine is good? Why is it bad to get a tattoo but good to have an organ surgically hacked out? Or, I can get botox, and a breast enhancement and that is okay, but not an energy treatment, because that is of the devil?

Why not extra ear rings, but we can have a knee we abused and didn't care for properly replaced, and that is okay? Help me out? I have such a hard time with these sweeping condemnations and acceptations that seem to be going on. Why don't we have to fast and pray before we go to our internist? Why is it we can go to our internist who was inspired to go into medicine and we can pay him, and that is okay, but not our energy healer? Why can that not be a course someone is inspired to pursue?

I just don't get it. Some here can spot a conspiracy theory a mile away with 9/11, or the Fed, but this doesn't stink to you? Big Pharma has now been deemed holy, and everything else evil. Sheesh. In my opinion, Satan gets way more mileage from antidepressants, as far as limiting eternal progress, than he does from any and all forms of energy work put together.
You missed the whole point - there is no universal spiritual energy as the new agers would have you believe that you can tap into at will. Either comes from God or it comes from the devil.

If it comes from God its through the priesthood.

loquaciousmomma
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by loquaciousmomma »

Jason wrote: You missed the whole point - there is no universal spiritual energy as the new agers would have you believe that you can tap into at will. Either comes from God or it comes from the devil.

If it comes from God its through the priesthood.

After looking into quantum physics a little, I would explain it this way:

The earth is made up of energy. It is what all in existence consists of. You can either control it through the priesthood, or some other way. However, "... the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and ... the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness."

So, controlling the energy some other way would leave us open to Satan's influence, and is therefore unwise.

That being said, I think there will be a way to heal bodies with energy without practicing reiki or other spiritual means. I think that there will be a breakthrough from the quantum physics field that will give more credibility to chiropractors and acupuncturists that use physical means to allow the energy in the body to flow freely and heal itself. There may even be new ways on the horizon to assure that the body's energy is unblocked.

My branch president/chiropractor went to a seminar in which it was claimed that medicine is ten years or more behind quantum physics and that the knowledge available in the world today is far beyond the current medical paradigm of dealing strictly with organisms (bacteria, viruses,etc.). He feels that true healing does and will eventually, come through our understanding of energy.

Rand
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Posts: 2472

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Rand »

Jason wrote:
Rand wrote:Okay, this turned into a "Rant", read at your own risk.
Sharon, I have to agree. I read these posts with some interest. I am not involved with Body Talk, but I do do acupuncture and am a practicing Chiropractor. I find it fascinating that I find amazing doctrinal convergences in Acupuncture, chiropractic and The Gospel of Jesus Christ. However, I find no true "principle" involved in western medicine at all. Nearly the entire practice of medicine is stifling symptoms with drugs, at the expense of learning and growing through the afflictions life brings. Yet, the church culturally embraces medicine as a whole with no questions asked.

Brigham Young was a great detractor to medicine as a practice. Yet today we revere it's practice above the Priesthood blessing, if I understand Elder Oaks recent talk. Can someone shed some light on this contradiction to me? Why is energy medicine bad, but chemical medicine is good? Why is it bad to get a tattoo but good to have an organ surgically hacked out? Or, I can get botox, and a breast enhancement and that is okay, but not an energy treatment, because that is of the devil?

Why not extra ear rings, but we can have a knee we abused and didn't care for properly replaced, and that is okay? Help me out? I have such a hard time with these sweeping condemnations and acceptations that seem to be going on. Why don't we have to fast and pray before we go to our internist? Why is it we can go to our internist who was inspired to go into medicine and we can pay him, and that is okay, but not our energy healer? Why can that not be a course someone is inspired to pursue?

I just don't get it. Some here can spot a conspiracy theory a mile away with 9/11, or the Fed, but this doesn't stink to you? Big Pharma has now been deemed holy, and everything else evil. Sheesh. In my opinion, Satan gets way more mileage from antidepressants, as far as limiting eternal progress, than he does from any and all forms of energy work put together.
You missed the whole point - there is no universal spiritual energy as the new agers would have you believe that you can tap into at will. Either comes from God or it comes from the devil.

If it comes from God its through the priesthood.
Jason, I agree with the fact that it is all guided through priesthood, through the light of Christ. But intelligence is a universal quality. Can it only be controlled through the priesthood? If so what kind of car do you drive? Was it made by the priesthood? Are all children created through the priesthood? Of course no. There are laws on many levels that we can tap into to create, control matter, and to attract. Ask and ye shall receive does not require that direct action of the priesthood. Medicine doesn't use the priesthood. Why is their intervention okay, but not other systems?

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Jason
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Jason »

Rand wrote:
Jason wrote:
Rand wrote:Okay, this turned into a "Rant", read at your own risk.
Sharon, I have to agree. I read these posts with some interest. I am not involved with Body Talk, but I do do acupuncture and am a practicing Chiropractor. I find it fascinating that I find amazing doctrinal convergences in Acupuncture, chiropractic and The Gospel of Jesus Christ. However, I find no true "principle" involved in western medicine at all. Nearly the entire practice of medicine is stifling symptoms with drugs, at the expense of learning and growing through the afflictions life brings. Yet, the church culturally embraces medicine as a whole with no questions asked.

Brigham Young was a great detractor to medicine as a practice. Yet today we revere it's practice above the Priesthood blessing, if I understand Elder Oaks recent talk. Can someone shed some light on this contradiction to me? Why is energy medicine bad, but chemical medicine is good? Why is it bad to get a tattoo but good to have an organ surgically hacked out? Or, I can get botox, and a breast enhancement and that is okay, but not an energy treatment, because that is of the devil?

Why not extra ear rings, but we can have a knee we abused and didn't care for properly replaced, and that is okay? Help me out? I have such a hard time with these sweeping condemnations and acceptations that seem to be going on. Why don't we have to fast and pray before we go to our internist? Why is it we can go to our internist who was inspired to go into medicine and we can pay him, and that is okay, but not our energy healer? Why can that not be a course someone is inspired to pursue?

I just don't get it. Some here can spot a conspiracy theory a mile away with 9/11, or the Fed, but this doesn't stink to you? Big Pharma has now been deemed holy, and everything else evil. Sheesh. In my opinion, Satan gets way more mileage from antidepressants, as far as limiting eternal progress, than he does from any and all forms of energy work put together.
You missed the whole point - there is no universal spiritual energy as the new agers would have you believe that you can tap into at will. Either comes from God or it comes from the devil.

If it comes from God its through the priesthood.
Jason, I agree with the fact that it is all guided through priesthood, through the light of Christ. But intelligence is a universal quality. Can it only be controlled through the priesthood? If so what kind of car do you drive? Was it made by the priesthood? Are all children created through the priesthood? Of course no. There are laws on many levels that we can tap into to create, control matter, and to attract. Ask and ye shall receive does not require that direct action of the priesthood. Medicine doesn't use the priesthood. Why is their intervention okay, but not other systems?
....spiritual energy

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9832

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by JohnnyL »

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on Body Talk Therapy. From what I understand, it is fairly new so I can't find a whole lot of information out there about it. Here is my beef:
I feel like I am somewhat of a spiritual person (in tune for the most part). I have been struggling with a physical pain for a long time. There is a lady in my ward who claims BodyTalk Therapy will help me get better. I have told her that I am a skeptic and don't believe any of that. Essentially a session involves going in and laying on a table while the practitioner holds your arm and talks (silently) to your body. After a series of questions the practitioner tells your body how to heal (your body answers yes or no by means of the practitioner moving your arm) and then helps direct body electrical messages. I am told that BodyTalk is a simple and effective holistic therapy that allows your body's energy systems to be re-synchronized so they can operate as nature intended.
I continue to tell this person that I don't think I believe this and she is very gracious and tells me it is ok to have healthy skepticism. I can't help but think this sounds (not exactly, but similar) a bit like Astral Projection or Remote Viewing techniques. This practitioner is a 100% LDS practicing saint and says she has been blessed with this bodytalk ability. She has a testimony and has even said her prayers have been answered in pursuing this. I am just still not getting warm & fuzzies and wondering if anyone else has heard about it or has thoughts....
DeepDoc
First, see this previous thread: http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 32&t=14949" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(I am still waiting for answers to my questions...)

BodyTalk MIGHT get you better, just like lots of things might (unlike Western medicine, which won't). Try it, see what happens.

Everyone's take on things usually has much more to do with our frames and perspectives than the Holy Ghost. Be wary of judging good for evil, and evil for good.

There is plenty of stuff out there that we, as LDS, have no stinking clue about. I think we're on a high horse if we believe that if God didn't reveal it to "US", it's not true, and therefore has to be from Satan. Let's keep Amos 3:7 in proper context. Did God reveal to the prophet on 9-11 that thermite was used to bring the Twin Towers down? Gee then, I guess Dr. Jones is new agey and we should be really wary of him, even though he claims he is a practicing LDS, huh? (And BELIEVE ME, there are lots of "Holy-Ghost led" LDS who KNOW he is a nutcase of Satan, ok? In fact, there are plenty of "Holy-Ghost led" LDS who KNOW that Muslims and boxcutters did it, and anyone who thinks otherwise is...!!)

Warm fuzzies? Did anyone ever get them in school while learning all those truths? I rarely ever did. If that's how I were to judge, I pretty much spent 11 years being Satan's pupil... Whoops, plus a few years at the Lord's university being Satan's pupil, too!

People often get stuck on one "thing" and lose sight of everything else. That's usually also when logic goes out the door. (Note on these threads how many logical arguments and questions are left unanswered by the "energy healing is bad" group.)
Like an investigator who can't get over [fill in the blank with any church history/ Book of Mormon/ temple ceremony problem].

It seems that every time there is something that can't be explained, it's so easy to say "it's from Satan", then the thinking has already been done. /:)
That keeps us from having to leave our cozy world. And we ALL do it to a certain degree--even the prophet.
And so that investigator now doesn't have to worry about finding out more about the church, joining, living some particular commandments, etc., because he/ she's "already got the answer".

Often, we don't examine our lives, and life in general.
The spirit told her to heal people for money? That doesn't sound like something the Holy Ghost would tell someone. Sounds like a deceiving spirit to me.
This would also mean that all those LDS doctors who felt impressed to study medicine and earned a living by it were deceived by Satan, too. Perhaps I should write Elder Nelson for starters? ;)
New age is about to get shifted right out of the church....make sure you aren't on the wrong side!
How's that? Can this be substantiated as more than a rumor? If so, please do so, with specific details. And what will fall under "new age"? More questions I'd like answers to...

JohnnyL
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Posts: 9832

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by JohnnyL »

Deepdoctrine:
I remember talking with the practitioner's husband awhile ago when he had been pretty sick - he told me his first thoughts were to get a blessing and have a bodytalk session. I found it weird that these were both being used in the same sentence. It didn't seem right to me.
You're right. When LDS are in the hospital and the tests come back and the doctor says, "you have cancer" the first thing that pops into everyone's mind is "priesthood blessing only!"? Nope. It's more like, first "doctor", then "chemo", then "radiation", then, after the visit and maybe a while at home, "oh, priesthood blessing".
A priesthood blessing is not a panacea even for those of great faith.
When I hear about suppressed memories that are blocking my ability to heal - that seems a bit weird. When I am told my gallbladder is not communicating with my liver and we need to get that communication started again - that seems weird. When I am told that she has clients that she does bodytalk for over the phone (because they are in a different state) - that seems weird.
Sure, many things seem weird. (Talk to an aborigine about photographs, you'll get the same "weird", "dark" response; simple, basic overview: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 449AA7d2hh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .)
But, is "weird" anti-Christ? Or just "unknown/ strange/ different/ new"?
There is research that supports some of what feels weird to you, especially about emotions influencing health.
Lots of weird things that I just can't seem to accept as being in harmony with the gospel.
I don't necessarily think it is because I am being skeptical - I think it is because it doesn't jive with my understandings of the gospel. Maybe I am wrong.....
I'm interested in knowing what lots of weird things that aren't in harmony with the gospel you found?
And which things you find that doctors do that are in harmony with the gospel?
It's strange to me that a person can be living in harmony with the gospel, have a temple recommend, have a testimony, appear to be quite spiritual - yet be deceived by something like this (I am referencing the practitioner). She honestly feels like this is something the Lord has blessed her with in order to help other people. She has said that she has had multiple prayers answered in ways that cannot be denied. Her husband had said the same. She has said the spirit has vividly told her this is something that is right for her and something she should pursue as a profession. She said to ignore those promptings to do bodytalk would be ignoring the spirit in her life. Is it still ok to tell someone they are wrong and being deceived if they have a testimony of this?
It can happen. Even the very elect can be deceived---about many things. If she has this, and you have... what? to back up your thinking that she is wrong and deceived?, why are you bothering trying to tell her? Don't you think it would be wiser to, minimally, let be?

A Me:
At one point, she had a lot of difficulty with a particular blockage. She tried several things and nothing worked. After a long pause, I heard her say, "Yes, that might work," as if talking to a colleague about a procedure. I did not get the impression she was speaking with God or one of his messengers. And whatever she did next did indeed work. I tell this to confirm that Reiki practitioners do indeed talk to spirits during the session.
You've never talked to yourself?? ;) Seriously, is this the proof that "Reiki practitioners do indeed talk to spirits during the session"? If this had been a doctor, would you have come to the same conclusion? I just want us to consider more...

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Matthew.B
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Matthew.B »

Rand wrote:Brigham Young was a great detractor to medicine as a practice. Yet today we revere it's practice above the Priesthood blessing, if I understand Elder Oaks recent talk. Can someone shed some light on this contradiction to me?
According to Leonard Arrington's "Brigham Young, American Moses", Brigham was strongly opposed to the "heroic" field of medicine (which included bloodletting, sweating, leeches, etc.), which he claimed the practitioners of had absolutely no idea about way the body really functioned. Towards the end of his life, as modern medicine emerged and the heroic system was replaced, President Young accepted the changes as, well, acceptable.

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Jason
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Jason »

JohnnyL wrote:Deepdoctrine:
I remember talking with the practitioner's husband awhile ago when he had been pretty sick - he told me his first thoughts were to get a blessing and have a bodytalk session. I found it weird that these were both being used in the same sentence. It didn't seem right to me.
You're right. When LDS are in the hospital and the tests come back and the doctor says, "you have cancer" the first thing that pops into everyone's mind is "priesthood blessing only!"? Nope. It's more like, first "doctor", then "chemo", then "radiation", then, after the visit and maybe a while at home, "oh, priesthood blessing".
A priesthood blessing is not a panacea even for those of great faith.
When I hear about suppressed memories that are blocking my ability to heal - that seems a bit weird. When I am told my gallbladder is not communicating with my liver and we need to get that communication started again - that seems weird. When I am told that she has clients that she does bodytalk for over the phone (because they are in a different state) - that seems weird.
Sure, many things seem weird. (Talk to an aborigine about photographs, you'll get the same "weird", "dark" response; simple, basic overview: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 449AA7d2hh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .)
But, is "weird" anti-Christ? Or just "unknown/ strange/ different/ new"?
There is research that supports some of what feels weird to you, especially about emotions influencing health.
Lots of weird things that I just can't seem to accept as being in harmony with the gospel.
I don't necessarily think it is because I am being skeptical - I think it is because it doesn't jive with my understandings of the gospel. Maybe I am wrong.....
I'm interested in knowing what lots of weird things that aren't in harmony with the gospel you found?
And which things you find that doctors do that are in harmony with the gospel?
It's strange to me that a person can be living in harmony with the gospel, have a temple recommend, have a testimony, appear to be quite spiritual - yet be deceived by something like this (I am referencing the practitioner). She honestly feels like this is something the Lord has blessed her with in order to help other people. She has said that she has had multiple prayers answered in ways that cannot be denied. Her husband had said the same. She has said the spirit has vividly told her this is something that is right for her and something she should pursue as a profession. She said to ignore those promptings to do bodytalk would be ignoring the spirit in her life. Is it still ok to tell someone they are wrong and being deceived if they have a testimony of this?
It can happen. Even the very elect can be deceived---about many things. If she has this, and you have... what? to back up your thinking that she is wrong and deceived?, why are you bothering trying to tell her? Don't you think it would be wiser to, minimally, let be?

A Me:
At one point, she had a lot of difficulty with a particular blockage. She tried several things and nothing worked. After a long pause, I heard her say, "Yes, that might work," as if talking to a colleague about a procedure. I did not get the impression she was speaking with God or one of his messengers. And whatever she did next did indeed work. I tell this to confirm that Reiki practitioners do indeed talk to spirits during the session.
You've never talked to yourself?? ;) Seriously, is this the proof that "Reiki practitioners do indeed talk to spirits during the session"? If this had been a doctor, would you have come to the same conclusion? I just want us to consider more...
....speaking of judging whilst in the midst of a wheat/tares church....and a wicked world on the verge of destruction...

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Jason
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Posts: 18296

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Jason »

JohnnyL wrote:
New age is about to get shifted right out of the church....make sure you aren't on the wrong side!
How's that? Can this be substantiated as more than a rumor? If so, please do so, with specific details. And what will fall under "new age"? More questions I'd like answers to...
I've been told that at some point in the near future the Church will take a hard stand on new age via Elder Boyd K Packer....you could call it a rumor....I trust the source but its word of mouth from my lips. We all know a separation is coming and we also know that the prophets have said that the wheat will be separated from the tares.....and that currently the tares dwell with the wheat. Take it for whatever you esteem it to be of worth.

Are the so-called New Age spiritual beliefs opposed to Christ?

R. Kim Davis, associate professor of surgery at the University of Utah and bishop of the Little Cottonwood Sixth Ward. As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we share an understanding of our Heavenly Father’s plan. This understanding includes knowing that we are children of our Father in Heaven with unique identities and that, through the atonement of our Savior, Jesus Christ, we can one day return to live with our Father. We are fortunately not left to ourselves to sift for truth in the philosophies of man.

A case in point is the New Age movement—an eclectic, contemporary pseudo-religion that consists of a confusing array of beliefs about the nature of man and denies the existence of a personal God and the need for a Savior.

Some aspects of the New Age movement may seem harmless. But when we compare basic principles of the gospel with New Age philosophies, we see that New Age beliefs can lead us away from our Heavenly Father, allowing us to rationalize behavior and become ensnared in sin.

1. A fundamental principle of the gospel is that we are literally the spirit children of a loving Heavenly Father, created in his image. We have individual identities and the potential to become like God. (See Gen. 1:26–27; Rom. 8:16; Eph. 4:6; Moses 3:5.)

In contrast, the New Age movement defines God as the ultimate reality, a source of pure undifferentiated energy, consciousness, or life-force. Humanity is considered an extension of God, the divine essence that is humanity’s higher self. Such a view denies a personal God.

2. Another fundamental principle of the gospel is that we can return to our Father in Heaven through the atonement of Jesus Christ. We know that the separation of man from God began with the fall of Adam and continues as a consequence of sin. Through the Atonement and our obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel, we can overcome this separation and gain eternal life. (See 1 Cor. 15:21–22; Mosiah 3:19.)

The New Age movement holds that sin does not separate man from God, but that metaphysical ignorance separates us from higher consciousness. New Age beliefs hold that the fall of man is not due to Adam’s transgression and its effect on mankind, but is due to mankind’s inability to understand the unity of reality. The destiny of man is to achieve somehow a level in which individual consciousness dissolves into the consciousness of the cosmos. Of course, such a philosophy denies individual worth and the need for a Savior.

3. We know that God has always revealed his will through prophets on the earth who act as his spokesmen. We also know that we can pray directly to God for personal revelation. (See Amos 3:7; James 1:5; Jacob 4:4; 3 Ne. 18:19–20; D&C 1:37–38; D&C 112:10.)

In contrast, New Age approaches to communication with the supernatural may include chanting, ritual, drugs, music, guides—anything that will assist the mind to reach a New Age metaphysical state. New Age philosophy thus denies the fundamental gospel principles concerning man’s communication with God.

4. We know that the true Church of Jesus Christ was restored to earth so that we need not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. We can distinguish truth from error. Heavenly Father provides the plan by which his kingdom on earth is administered. (See Eph. 4:11–14; D&C 20.)

The New Age movement tries to replace the commandments of God and the consequences of sin with an experiential view of life in which any type of behavior is potentially acceptable. New Age philosophy suggests that if everything is God, everything is permissible.

The truth is, oneness with our Father in Heaven is made possible only by keeping his commandments. We can achieve peace in this life not by losing our identities in becoming part of the cosmos, but by comprehending our true identities as spirit children of Heavenly Father and personally receiving our Savior.

There should be no doubt that the basic tenets of the New Age movement are directly opposed to the teachings of Jesus Christ and his church. We can avoid the pitfalls of this and other trends that oppose our Savior by relying on the Holy Ghost to help us discern carefully between truth and falsehood.
http://lds.org/ensign/1991/03/i-have-a- ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...I have a cousin that used to study in a scripture group at BYU with Hugh Nibley and others.....then went deep into new age. You wouldn't recognize the returned missionary now....covered with tattoos from head to foot, dope smoking, wife cheating, etc etc etc. It either comes from God or from the Devil....the way to judge is plain - Moroni Ch 7 -
For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.

For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.

For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.

And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with areal intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such.

Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.

For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.

Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to csin, and to do that which is evil continually.

But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is aevil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the alight by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/7?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




We have been seeing this revolution growing and growing through the time-frame 1975-2011 as Blavatsky said it would occur. She was very correct in her prediction. If you are not familiar with her writings she says Lucifer is the God of this planet the "light-bearer" (the good guy). She is often called the mother of the new age. She is opposed to any of the monotheistic faiths or the belief in a true God that judges mankind. She teaches that man is god and there is no good or evil or sin.

Wayne Dyer says “My belief is that the truth is a truth until you organize it, and then becomes a lie. I don’t think that Jesus was teaching Christianity, Jesus was teaching kindness, love, concern, and peace. What I tell people is don’t be Christian, be Christ-like. Don’t be Buddhist, be Buddha-like.” “Religion is orthodoxy, rules and historical scriptures maintained by people over long periods of time. Generally people are raised to obey the customs and practices of that religion without question. These are customs and expectations from outside the person and do not fit my definition of spiritual.”

Wayne Dyer and Marianne Williamson

The basic belief they both have is that the "god" they talk about is merely "energy" or the universe or source. They do not believe in a being called God that created and judges man. They do not believe that sin exists or good or evil. They believe we are god. Instead of believing in "God the creator" they believe in the "creation being God". They both are for Gay Marriage. They both are against any orthodox religion that does not support new age doctrines that say there is no sin and that we are god.

- Rosabella

You Are God: An In-Depth Conversation with Dr. Wayne Dyer
http://www.drwaynedyer.com/articles/you ... wayne-dyer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nonspiritual beings accept the existence of a supreme being or God, not as a universal force that is within us but as a separate power that will someday hold us accountable.

…A spiritual being knows the enormous power that comes with the ability to manipulate the physical world with one’s mind….
Real Magic Wayne W. Dyer Pg 41
I have asked God (or whatever you call that invisible part of ourselves) and I have received answers.
Real Magic Wayne W. Dyer Pg 12
You do not have to prove yourself to God. You were created as an extension of the highest spiritual force, the very essence of the universe. You did not arrive in now-here incomplete in any way. You do not have to strive to prove anything.
Your Sacred Self, Wayne W. Dyer Pg 271
With this power, you discover that you are free to serve whatever you are intuitively drawn to.

When you stop striving and start knowing that you are on a divine mission, and that you are not alone, you will be guided to the experience of arriving. That experience will introduce you to the bliss of being in the realm of spirit. Where there is no worry or guilt. Being fully in the now means that you will experience heaven on earth because you are completely absorbed in the soul of the holy instant.

Your Sacred Self , Wayne W. Dyer pg 277
Just as God does not withhold, God does not punish you by burdening you with problems. As Joel Goldsmith, the founder of the Infinite Way put it, “All you have to do is to awaken from the belief in two powers of good and evil and begin to honor God by respecting the first commandment . . . how can you fear an evil power if there is only one power and that one power is God?” The idea that God could be punitive is inconsistent with spiritual awareness. Purely and simply put, God is love and he has made everything beautiful in its time, including you and everyone else.

Actions and thoughts, which you might call evil, are the result of the error that is made when you believe you are separate from God. It is a mistake of the ego, or the intellect, to believe there is evil for or which God must punish you. You correct an error by bringing truth to it. You then nullify the error. The idea that God will condemn you is not consistent with a God of forgiveness.

You believe either in one power or two. The power of one is the power of love. Evil exists first as a thought of non-good or non-God, and then it is that thought which is acted upon. But it is all an error. “God is too pure to behold iniquity.” If it’s not good, it’s not of God, and if it’s not of God, it can’t exist, since everything is of the one power we call God. You can correct all the errors of your belief in separation from God by bringing that higher loving energy to those areas of your life that are plagued with problems. They are not punishments. Rather think of them as errors to be corrected. They will disappear as surely as two plus two equals seven disappears when you bring the substance of truth to the error.

God does not condemn, God forgives. God does not punish, God is love. You end the error of evil which is a non-God thought by bringing a God-thought to it. You raise your spiritual energy by recognizing the lower energies as being the result of having separated yourself from spirit in the first place. You rid yourself of the idea that any evil person has a grip on you, because there is only one power in the universe that holds everything together, and that power is good. All else that is not good is your mind at work creating the illusions of problems. Nothing of an evil nature has ever touched God. Anything that you believe God punished you for is cause you lived in the mind of man rather than the mind of God. When the mind of man becomes illuminated, he becomes a part of God, and this is the solution to your fear of punishment.

There’s a Spiritual Solution to Every Problem - You Are Not Being Punished. Wayne W. Dyer pg 122-123
If you ask God to heal you, you are acknowledging that God made you sick. When you ask God for special favors you acknowledge a God power that kept those favors from you. When you ask God for health, it is like saying, “God you’ve got this thing called health, but you won’t give it to me, please reconsider.” You are asking God to be divided into having health and not having health, or abundance, or anything else.

Instead of seeking benefits or favors from God, remind yourself to commune with this eternal presence that is in you. Bring this presence to the illusions that are in your mind called problems. See that in the presence of this unconditional, nonjudgmental love duality based problems disappear and only loving presence remains.
There’s a Spiritual Solution to Every Problem-. Wayne W. Dyer Pg 128

"Barbara Marx Hubbard is one of America's brightest lights. She makes this very complicated moment in history seem like a glorious opportunity. She gives guidance, and she gives hope.
— Marianne Williamson"
http://www.humanityascending.com/WhatPe ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“Barbara Marx Hubbard and the Foundation for Conscious Evolution are giving us an extraordinary guide and the tools and technology to effect desperately needed changes, and indeed the healing of our society and planet. If enough people are exposed to her works, something phenomenal will emerge as a consequence.”
- Marianne Williamson
http://www.barbaramarxhubbard.com/con/node/4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marianne is friends with David Spangler who says we must go through Luciferic Initiations to enter the new age.
Christ is the same force as Lucifer... Lucifer prepares man for the experience of Christhood. (He is) the great initiator.... Lucifer works within each of us to bring us to wholeness, and as we move into a New Age ... each of us in some way is brought to that point which I term the Luciferic Initiation ... for it is an invitation into the New Age.
David Spangler reflections on the Christ p.44-45
An important center for the New Age Movement during the twentieth century was the Findhorn Foundation in northern Scotland.

During those years, people related to occult practices were persecuted by counter-forces such as Orthodox Christians which had allies in Skeptics and members of Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP). Those chasing contrasted with some biblical scholars who confirmed that Jesus had more affinity with the New Age than the fundamentalism of extremist Christianity.

In astrology a Solar Age is determined by the constellation in which the Sun appears during the vernal equinox. The Solar Age of Aquarius will replace the Solar Age of Pisces – to end in the 21 st Century - which coincided with the birth of Jesus Christ.

New Agers goal is to create a one-world government and unify the planet under a spiritual system of higher consciousness.
http://www.certifiedpsychics.com/psychi ... t6f1ddop95" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Futurist and Conscious Evolutionist Barbara Marx Hubbard states it pretty clearly in her book The Revelation: Our Crisis is a Birth. The book now can be found renamed the Revelation: A Message of Hope for the New Millennium. She explains a difference between oneness and separation. Oneness means being one with the world and with all mankind and accepting your own divinity. Separation is a false belief that you are separate from God. If you’re one with the world you’ll help guide the planet to its new stage in evolution. But if you refuse to be one with the world you will be holding back the planet’s evolution. If you don’t see yourself as divine and you believe you are separate from God, you are like a cancer cell on planet Earth that must be removed. This she calls the “selection process”. This will be for all the self-centered separatists who believe they’re separate from God and she calls that belief evil. It is all those who believe in the God of Abraham which are Christians, Jews and Muslims. If they are not willing to become one with the world they will have to be removed just like cancer is removed from the body because they will be hindering the evolution of the earth and of all humanity. The goal is world peace. She along with other occultists believe man is divine and if we as “Christs” can co-create a world of peace then we can avoid Armageddon.

Helena Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, David Spangler and many others clearly state in their writings about the world-wide initiations into the new age that will come.
David Spangler was the co director of the Findhorn Foundation and is Founder-director of Lorian Association. He is a new-age occultist who actually states that there will be initiations into the new age and that they are Luciferic.

In his book:

Revelation: Reflections on the Christ, he says this:

“I am prepared to accept my Christhood, my light, my gateway, my life, as being the doorway to the father, to the beloved, to God. No man may condemn me. I may go and sin the sin of inner separation no more, and free myself and Lucifer into the reality of the Christ and the wholeness of God, which is the essence of us both.”

“Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it then he is free and we are free. That is the Luciferic Initiation. It is one that many people now, and in the days ahead, we’ll be facing, for is an initiation into the new age. It is an initiation of leaving the past and moving into the new, shedding our guilts and fears, our anxieties, our needs, our temptations and becoming whole and at peace because we have recognized our inner light and the light that unfolds us, the light of God.”

“In the new age consciousness there is not good and evil.”

Theosophist Helena Blavatsky is often called the mother of the New Age Movement. She had at one time a magazine called “Lucifer” and she talks throughout all her books about initiations.

Alice Bailey in her books discusses the different stages of initiations. When she first printed her books she named their publishing company “Lucifer Publishing Company”. By 1925 the name was changed to Lucis Publishing. “Lucifer” and “Lucis” come from the same word root, lucis being the Latin genitive case meaning of light. She talks about a new-age initiation in:

The Externalization of the Hierarchy on page 575

“ This first great initiation will be objectively staged and the general public will recognize it as a major rite and ritual of the new religious institution of the period.”

All the above authors and many others talk of initiations into a one world religion. All of the proponents of these initiations claim Peace. Through these initiations the world will once and finally become at peace under their “Christ” which they make very clear is not Jesus of Nazareth. He is the Christ that supposedly overshadowed Jesus of Nazareth. We would call him the anti-Christ.

This is a quote from the Spangler’s Findhorn Foundation’s website http://www.findhorn.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on the Findhorn Foundation history page:

In 1970 a young American spiritual teacher named David Spangler arrived in the community and with his partner Myrtle Glines helped to define and organize the spiritual education processes that have been a central pillar of the Findhorn community ever since. A curriculum was established and the work of the ‘University of Light’ began. David and Myrtle lived in the community for three years, during which Findhorn Press published many of David’s visionary writings. Today we run almost 200 week-long courses every year as well as conferences, trainings and our busy Outreach program of educational workshops taken around the world by our workshop leaders.”

“In 1997 the Foundation was recognized as an official Non-Governmental Organization associated with the Department of Public Information of United Nations, and actively participates in a variety of UN events”
- Rosabella
Dear Friends,

This piece is by my friend and colleague David Spangler. His work has enriched my life for years ...

Marianne
http://blog.marianne.com/journal/archiv ... rs_ref.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David Spangler Quotes from his book Reflections on the Christ.

“Lucifer is literally the angel of experiences for man.”… >

“Lucifer, then, is neither good nor bad in his true essence. He is completely neutral. He is an agent of God’s love acting through evolution. The energies he provides for our use are neutral. We can use them, the energies of experience and of consciousness, to draw to ourselves things that help us grow or we can draw to ourselves limitation by refusing to grow.”

“He comes to make us aware of our power within, to draw to ourselves experience. He comes to make us aware of the power of creative manifestation which we wield.”

“When you are working with the laws of manifestation you are in essence manifesting a Luciferic principle, because you are establishing a centre around which or towards which something can move, something can be attracted inward to become fulfilled or realized or brought into manifestation.”

These are just some of many revealing quotes David had said regarding Lucifer. As you can tell we hear many of the same terms and beliefs being used by other New-Age leaders Like Oprah Winfrey, Deepak Chopra, Marianne Williamson, Wayne Dyer, Eckhart Tolle. Books like “The Secret”, “The Power of Intention”, “The Law of Attraction”, and “Manifest Your Destiny”. David Spangler openly explains the principles found in these writings and credits them to Lucifer.
Eckart Tolle is connected with Findhorn foundation where David set up their spiritual education plan.

From Amazon.com

Eckhart Tolle’s Findhorn Retreat: Stillness Amidst the World [AUDIOBOOK] [CD] (Audio CD)

Product Description

“Best-selling author and spiritual guide Eckhart Tolle led a remarkable two-day retreat at Findhorn, Scotland, a community on the leading edge of personal and global transformation. His weekend talks, captured on audio, create a deeply moving experience for listeners. Speaking on the subject of stillness, which he describes as a doorway into the Now and to true personal enlightenment, Tolle shows listeners how to find stillness in the present moment and enter a deeper dimension of peace and fulfillment. His practical, powerful tools for transformation offer the clear guidance needed to realize the magic of every moment and to reconnect to the sacredness of life and of being. Tolle’s lighthearted delivery lends sparkling highlights to the jewels of wisdom that he shares — words that convey, with the timeless clarity of the ancient spiritual masters, a simple yet profound message of hope.

John Randolph Price, founder of the Quartus Foundation. In his book, “The Planetary Commission”, he lays out the blueprint for humanity to take its “quantum leap” into the golden New Age, where “mankind will return to Godkind” He and his wife Jan were the originators of World Healing Day that began on December 31, 1986, with over 500-million participants world wide, and the event has continued each year on the same date. They participate in a World Healing Meditation.
“The revolution has begun. It started more than one hundred years ago, but now the pace is quickening. Throughout the world, men and women are joining in the uprising and are coming forward to be counted as part of a new race that will someday rule the universe.

“This Aquarian Age will open its arms of welcome to all who embrace its new theology. However, those who take Jesus at his word when he said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6) will need to experience a “cleansing” because of their self-centered, separatist ideas.” (p. 113)

“The Super Beings” by John Price page 1:

This huge movement today keeps changing its name, but the beliefs stay the same, that humanity is evolving and needs to evolve into a Universal Human, accepting the “divine within” and living at peace with everyone, at peace with the world and being one with the world. Their Christ wants everyone to be one with the world and recognize they are Christs. This gives more insight into scriptures that say Christ is not of this world.

Christ said to Pilate:

John 18:36 Jesus said,

“My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
They say there is no sin, that there is no need for a Savior, That anyone that becomes Enlightened or Awakened comes to the understanding that they are “god’ that everything and everyone is “god”, but the ones that will hold back this Utopia are the selfish self-centered people that believe in a God separate from themselves, the God of Abraham. All those that hold on to the old beliefs of a God must be cleansed of the planet.
They call good evil and evil good.

Barbara Marx Hubbard, Neal Donald Walsh, Eckhart Tolle, Deepak Chopra, Marianne Williamson, Louise Hay, and Wayne Dyer are just some of the Spiritual leaders expressing these ideas today, many of which are being highly promoted by Oprah. Oprah is not a Christian, but rather a full-blown Occultist. I have researched her progression into this occult movement and she is now involved full force and feels she is on a mission. If you have not heard yet she now owns a network where all of these New Age leaders will be given more time 24-7 to share their “truths” with the world. The network is called OWN, the Oprah Winfrey Network. It used to be one of the discovery networks. She has full creative control. I can only imagine what that will be like. Considering her working with Marianne Williamson to promote “The Course in Miracles” on radio, and Eckhart Tolle’s lessons on the internet of how to create a New Earth she will expand that on this station.

If you know all the players you start to get the big picture of what is happening. They all promote the notion that each of us is ‘god”, the principle of reincarnation, and the “truth” that there is no sin, therefore no need for a savior, or repentance. The say that there are universal truths and universal laws that supersede all religions, dogmas and doctrines. They say Religion is the root of all that which is bad on the planet. Their universal truths trump all else because they are THE truth. The only evil is not to recognize your own divinity and everyone else. They all promote the use of the law of attraction/intent to co-create a new earth. They preach its use as a vital practice for it is the vehicle of change.

You could say when most of the world is practicing the law of attraction they are collectively using their wills and not turning their wills over to Father. That is what Lucifer wants. If we are not submitting our wills to Father by default we then are submitting to Lucifer. We become pride based and self-focused. This is the very state in which Lucifer wants us to be for it gives him power. Especially when we use it to call him forth. What we are doing with the Law of Attraction is calling forth Lucifer’s plan. The occult explains this clearly in their writings. Lucifer wants his will, he wants us to want our will and not Fathers Will. These “laws” teach us how to will things for ourselves and bypass Father, just as Lucifer wants. We take on the role as our own God.
Who else wanted to exalt himself above the throne of God?

Isaiah 14:12-14

How you have fallen from heaven,O morning star, son of the dawn!You have been cast down to the earth,you who once laid low the nations!

13 You said in your heart,”I will ascend to heaven;I will raise my throne above the stars of God;I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.

14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;I will make myself like the Most High.

We are told by the teachers of the New Age that we are “gods” not even tying to use the idea it is by being righteous, but just because we are. When you Awaken this is the knowledge you gain – that you are “god”.

That is what all the self-empowerment is about. The power is in you because you are “god”.

As they are teaching, In the I Take A Vow movement of Deepak Chopra that if we all take a vow and live by it we will collectively transform the world because we are “divine” we are “gods”
- Rosabella
Last edited by Anonymous on July 12th, 2011, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Original_Intent
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13008

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Original_Intent »

Jason,

I won't repeat it here, but elsewhere on this site I have related the powerful prompting I got in the MTC in the fall of 1982, regarding President Packer. What you say fits that perfectly.

Not only will it separate the wheat from the tares, the wheat that remain will largely have the whole world turned against them - the wheat will be tried to the utmost, more than any previous generation of believers. That is my belief.

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Jason
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Posts: 18296

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Jason »

Original_Intent wrote:Jason,

I won't repeat it here, but elsewhere on this site I have related the powerful prompting I got in the MTC in the fall of 1982, regarding President Packer. What you say fits that perfectly.

Not only will it separate the wheat from the tares, the wheat that remain will largely have the whole world turned against them - the wheat will be tried to the utmost, more than any previous generation of believers. That is my belief.
Yes I remember that....and can certainly see it coming to pass. At some point in the near future we'll separate from the world and it won't be pretty!!! Just hope I'm wheat and not a tare!!!

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Matthew.B
captain of 100
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Location: Syracuse, New York

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Matthew.B »

Original_Intent wrote:Jason,

I won't repeat it here, but elsewhere on this site I have related the powerful prompting I got in the MTC in the fall of 1982, regarding President Packer. What you say fits that perfectly.

Not only will it separate the wheat from the tares, the wheat that remain will largely have the whole world turned against them - the wheat will be tried to the utmost, more than any previous generation of believers. That is my belief.
I'd be interested in reading that, if you wouldn't mind providing a link.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9832

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by JohnnyL »

And we come full circle, again, without anyone having answered any of the previous questions in this thread, in the "Battling Energy healing" thread, or in the "Is Tickling from Satan?" thread.

Is anyone getting anywhere? No, this is just a public debate hoping to convince others, I guess.

PLEASE, ANSWER THE MANY QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS **DIRECTLY** from these threads--don't just post pages of quotes that have little or nothing to do with any of the questions we have asked the "anti-energy healing" believers to answer.
Jason: I've been told that at some point in the near future the Church will take a hard stand on new age via Elder Boyd K Packer....you could call it a rumor....I trust the source but its word of mouth from my lips. We all know a separation is coming and we also know that the prophets have said that the wheat will be separated from the tares.....and that currently the tares dwell with the wheat. Take it for whatever you esteem it to be of worth.
So you believe that "new age" will be the great separator? And what is "new age"? Can you or anyone here give me a definition?

And frankly, what does "new age" have to do with "energy healing"? Can anyone show me the direct link, please?

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Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Jason »

JohnnyL wrote:And we come full circle, again, without anyone having answered any of the previous questions in this thread, in the "Battling Energy healing" thread, or in the "Is Tickling from Satan?" thread.

Is anyone getting anywhere? No, this is just a public debate hoping to convince others, I guess.

PLEASE, ANSWER THE MANY QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS **DIRECTLY** from these threads--don't just post pages of quotes that have little or nothing to do with any of the questions we have asked the "anti-energy healing" believers to answer.
Jason: I've been told that at some point in the near future the Church will take a hard stand on new age via Elder Boyd K Packer....you could call it a rumor....I trust the source but its word of mouth from my lips. We all know a separation is coming and we also know that the prophets have said that the wheat will be separated from the tares.....and that currently the tares dwell with the wheat. Take it for whatever you esteem it to be of worth.
So you believe that "new age" will be the great separator? And what is "new age"? Can you or anyone here give me a definition?

And frankly, what does "new age" have to do with "energy healing"? Can anyone show me the direct link, please?
I think it will be one of the great separator's....because they are on the forefront of calling evil good and good evil....of course that's just a bunch of meaningless quotes to you.

New Age -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...suggest reading Constance Cumbey's "Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow".....also reading up on the founder's of new age - Helena Blavatsky, Aleister Crowley (The Great Beast), Benjamin Creme (still proselyting), Alice Ann Bailey (religious arm of United Nations)....down to the latest missionaries - Barbara Max Hubbard, Oprah, Wayne Dyer, David Spangler, John Randolph Price, Neal Donald Walsh, Eckhart Tolle, Deepak Chopra, Marianne Williamson, Louise Hay, etc....

Author of the "Secret Doctrine"
http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/blavatsky-links.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
New Age spiritualism has co-opted some of the language of physics, including the language of quantum mechanics, in its quest to make ancient metaphysics sound like respectable science. The New Age preaches enhancing your vital energy, tapping into the subtle energy of the universe, or manipulating your biofield so that you can be happy, fulfilled, successful, and lovable, and so life can be meaningful, significant, and endless. The New Age promises you the power to heal the sick and create reality according to your will, as if you were a god.
http://www.skepdic.com/energy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The energy healing side of it referred to in some of these terms -
Reiki, healing circles, Chakra Therapy, Crystal Healing, Earth Cycles and much more (look up the Light Party and all of its affiliates which is the new age political organization - I'm on their email list and get nearly daily advertisements about new age energy healing practicioners)....not that you really care or you would have done your own research already not to mention assimilating the tremendous body of quotes already provided for you at no effort to yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MysticWays is here for all seekers. We provide Clergy Services, Teachings, Workshops, Classes. We are open to all seekers of the Path. Membership is not required to attend meetups.

Meet local Eclectics, Wiccans, Spiritualist, and other practitioners of spirituality and religion!

Come to an event to make friends, share information and exchange powerful knowledge about Healing, Herbs, Crystals, Divination and Magick.

All areas are covered, Healing, Herbalism, Drumming, Reiki, Sacred Sexuality, Laws of Attraction, and much more.
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This one's especially for you....
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The BodyTalk System is a state-of-the-art alternative healthcare paradigm founded by Dr. John Veltheim that is powerful, non-invasive and truly effective. BodyTalk is a complete healthcare system. Being truly holistic, it interfaces well with other healthcare modalities, be it western medicine, eastern medicine or anywhere in-between. BodyTalk works effectively on humans, animals and even plants.

BodyTalk recognizes the body has an internal wisdom present from before birth. This wisdom knows how to replace every cell in your body, make repairs and heal with a precision and speed beyond any technology available today. BodyTalk is an astonishingly simple, safe and effective form of therapy, which re-synchronizes all body systems to their natural efficiency.
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BodyTalk Principles

Innate Wisdom of the Body

BodyTalk is based on the principle that the body is capable of healing itself at all levels - as evidenced by the healing process that is automatically initiated when a person cuts a finger or twists an ankle. This automatic, self-guided healing process is part of the body's inborn intelligence, or the "innate wisdom" of the body, as we call it in BodyTalk. The innate wisdom guides the overall functioning of the bodymind complex, synchronizes all the activities as well as maintains balance, or homeostasis, within the bodymind complex.
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Dr. Veltheim, a native Australian, has been aware of body energy fields since the age of 8 when he took up martial arts and Zen Meditation. At age 13, he began practicing Transcendental Meditation and later taught the philosophy behind martial arts.

John went on to become a licensed doctor of chiropratics as well as a doctor of Chinese medicine, traditional acupuncture and natural therapy. He had no idea that these activities were forming the foundation for remarkable breakthroughs soon to unfold.

John had contracted Epstein Barr virus and his liver was so badly damaged that he was given less than a week to live. He checked himself out of the hospital and went home to practice everything he had ever learned about alternative healing. He was soon up and around, but recognized the need for a drastic change in life-style. He sold his practice and began teaching stress management, philosophy and Reiki around the world.
http://www.bodytalkportland.com/AboutDr ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Reiki (the science, metaphysics and philosophy) by Dr. John & Esther Veltheim

Reiki is one of the oldest, more mysterious and lesser known energy systems used in hands-on treatment. It is mysterious because no one can explain exactly how it works; lesser known, because the majority of its practioners are lay people who use it on themselves, friends and family rather than professionally. Although Reiki dramatically enhances the body's own natural healing ability, its treatment of physical disease is considered a wondeful "side effect" only. More important is the expansion of personal awareness that results when Reiki is used on a regular basis.

http://www.amazon.com/science-metaphysi ... 0964594404" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
John and his wife Esther (who developed the Breakthrough system and has written six books on philosophy and psychology) have been lecturing internationally for nearly 20 years teaching Mindscape, Breakthrough, Reiki, Advaita philosophy, BodyTalk and life sciences. They currently live in Sarasota, Florida.

http://www.bodytalksystem.com/learn/iba/president.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....how does that go about birds of a feather???
Then in comes Bodytalk. Within 24 hours of that heart felt surrender I was sitting listening to Dr. John Veltheim give a presentation on a new health care modality called Bodytalk, and within the week attending the initial classes. What I did not realize at the time was that I was signing on for much more than a career change. I now know that Bodytalk can be thought of as a personal spiritual practice with a side effect of healing. This has been my experience with bodytalk, and my life has been offered up to the search for what is really true, and what living from the heart truly means. The depth of where truth and heart can take one in life continues to unfold for me.

I offer this personal testimonial in the hopes of attracting clients seeking more than physical health.
http://www.bodytalksystem.com/practitio ... fm?id=1724" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://lds.org/ensign/1991/03/i-have-a- ... ry=new+age" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When Pharaoh shall speak unto you, saying, Shew a miracle for you: then thou shalt say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent.

And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.

Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods.
http://lds.org/scriptures/ot/ex/7?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rosabella wrote:Having discussed the many forms of energy healing with the GAs. The feedback I got back for the Prophet and agreement of the Apostles was it was NOT ok. The power is not coming from God and is not neutral. I know this is a hard issue for many people to accept. But it is exactly what they told me. They actually said anyone doing energy healing should not hold temple recommends. I have an extended relative that is an energy healer she works with the bodies’ energy field and works with the chakras. She was told by her stake President that she could not hold a temple recommend until she stopped doing any energy work, also if continued she may have faced worse disciple.

The scripture make it very clear how the Lord uses spiritual power to heal. He does it through the Laying on of hand of the Priesthood. Anything more than this is not of God but actual is going around God and His will. This is a spiritual healing; it is the counterfeit of the Lords way. There are other means of healing that do not uses forces to do them, but when you start using forces or energy you have now entered into the realm of spiritual forces and energy. There is not a neutral energy we can tap into.

In meeting with the General Authorities we discussed in great detail the energy healing and the popularity of within and without the Church. They made it very clear that it was something we were not to participate in. I have also spoken with a person that talks in-depth with Elder Pace. He has also verified the stand the Church takes on energy healing and all the other occult practices.

In meeting with the GAs I became very aware of their position on this matter, though it is not as clear among members of the Church. I was told that this matter along with other issues will be dealt with at the time we pull from the world. If it was address outwardly at this time it would affect the harvest. They expect that their clarifying the areas that are occult in detail will be the source and cause of the great sifting of the wheat and tares within the Church. If you listen to what they say or re-read conference talks it is clear that they are opposed to these very things, they just do not name them out-right. They instead tell us where to look for truth and happiness. They teach Fathers Plan over warning us of each detail of Lucifer’s.



Good luck!

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9832

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by JohnnyL »

Jason wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:And we come full circle, again, without anyone having answered any of the previous questions in this thread, in the "Battling Energy healing" thread, or in the "Is Tickling from Satan?" thread.

Is anyone getting anywhere? No, this is just a public debate hoping to convince others, I guess.

PLEASE, ANSWER THE MANY QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS **DIRECTLY** from these threads--don't just post pages of quotes that have little or nothing to do with any of the questions we have asked the "anti-energy healing" believers to answer.
Jason: I've been told that at some point in the near future the Church will take a hard stand on new age via Elder Boyd K Packer....you could call it a rumor....I trust the source but its word of mouth from my lips. We all know a separation is coming and we also know that the prophets have said that the wheat will be separated from the tares.....and that currently the tares dwell with the wheat. Take it for whatever you esteem it to be of worth.
So you believe that "new age" will be the great separator? And what is "new age"? Can you or anyone here give me a definition?

And frankly, what does "new age" have to do with "energy healing"? Can anyone show me the direct link, please?
I think it will be one of the great separator's....because they are on the forefront of calling evil good and good evil....of course that's just a bunch of meaningless quotes to you.

Good luck!
Good luck trying to get actual answers to those questions? Yeah, that's how I feel about it, too! "Good luck, none will be coming", eh?! ;) Seriously, folks...
Last edited by JohnnyL on July 14th, 2011, 5:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9832

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by JohnnyL »

Rosabella wrote:Having discussed the many forms of energy healing with the GAs. The feedback I got back for the Prophet and agreement of the Apostles was it was NOT ok. The power is not coming from God and is not neutral. I know this is a hard issue for many people to accept. But it is exactly what they told me. They actually said anyone doing energy healing should not hold temple recommends. I have an extended relative that is an energy healer she works with the bodies’ energy field and works with the chakras. She was told by her stake President that she could not hold a temple recommend until she stopped doing any energy work, also if continued she may have faced worse disciple.

The scripture make it very clear how the Lord uses spiritual power to heal. He does it through the Laying on of hand of the Priesthood. Anything more than this is not of God but actual is going around God and His will. This is a spiritual healing; it is the counterfeit of the Lords way. There are other means of healing that do not uses forces to do them, but when you start using forces or energy you have now entered into the realm of spiritual forces and energy. There is not a neutral energy we can tap into.
In meeting with the General Authorities we discussed in great detail the energy healing and the popularity of within and without the Church. They made it very clear that it was something we were not to participate in. I have also spoken with a person that talks in-depth with Elder Pace. He has also verified the stand the Church takes on energy healing and all the other occult practices.
In meeting with the GAs I became very aware of their position on this matter, though it is not as clear among members of the Church. I was told that this matter along with other issues will be dealt with at the time we pull from the world. If it was address outwardly at this time it would affect the harvest. They expect that their clarifying the areas that are occult in detail will be the source and cause of the great sifting of the wheat and tares within the Church. If you listen to what they say or re-read conference talks it is clear that they are opposed to these very things, they just do not name them out-right. They instead tell us where to look for truth and happiness. They teach Fathers Plan over warning us of each detail of Lucifer’s.

Rosabella, with all your contact with the GA's, can you please get the prophet and apostles' POV about "energy healing" IN WRITING and share with us?

Why is this contradictory to what I have heard, and to what was posted on "Battling Energy Healers" by sandhollow@aol.com?:
sandhollow@aol.com wrote:I happen to know someone who worked for a church agency and used energy healing/counseling in his practice. He actually had an apostle observe and remarked that he had never seen such a merciful healing/practice. He began all his couseling sessions with prayer and always did everything through Jesus Christ. I do believe it is a system of the body and yes it can be used by one source or the other like everything else - the thing to be aware of is - which source is it from (God or Lucifer) It can be used for both and that is what we must use personal revelation for.
"At the time we pull from the world"--the GA's said that? Which ones/ callings, if you wouldn't mind sharing?

"...energy healing and all the other occult practices" First, please show that energy healing is an occult practice.

What do you make of this?:
http://tamarasbook.blogspot.com/2009/08 ... ional.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

katmr
captain of 100
Posts: 490

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by katmr »

I've heard of this generational clearing before and I'm not very good with words and communicating so I apologize, but I have a difficult time understanding the generational clearing and how it frees our ancestors up to move forward. I thought that's what baptism is for and baptisms for the dead, for the remission of sins. It is through the gospel principles they are freed. It seems like praying for someone in their behalf or putting their name on the temple prayer roll would make more sense to me.? I read the blogspot and it talked about ancestors who had passed on visiting living family members. I'm not saying it didn't happen but do you know anyone who has tried these spirits using the pattern that is taught in the temple ceremony?

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Jason »

JohnnyL wrote:
Jason wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:And we come full circle, again, without anyone having answered any of the previous questions in this thread, in the "Battling Energy healing" thread, or in the "Is Tickling from Satan?" thread.

Is anyone getting anywhere? No, this is just a public debate hoping to convince others, I guess.

PLEASE, ANSWER THE MANY QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS **DIRECTLY** from these threads--don't just post pages of quotes that have little or nothing to do with any of the questions we have asked the "anti-energy healing" believers to answer.
I've been told that at some point in the near future the Church will take a hard stand on new age via Elder Boyd K Packer....you could call it a rumor....I trust the source but its word of mouth from my lips. We all know a separation is coming and we also know that the prophets have said that the wheat will be separated from the tares.....and that currently the tares dwell with the wheat. Take it for whatever you esteem it to be of worth.
So you believe that "new age" will be the great separator? And what is "new age"? Can you or anyone here give me a definition?

And frankly, what does "new age" have to do with "energy healing"? Can anyone show me the direct link, please?
JohnnyL wrote:
Jason wrote:I think it will be one of the great separator's....because they are on the forefront of calling evil good and good evil....of course that's just a bunch of meaningless quotes to you.

Good luck!
Good luck trying to get actual answers to those questions? Yeah, that's how I feel about it, too! "Good luck, none will be coming", eh?! ;) Seriously, folks...
Let's call a spade a spade. You don't want answers. Plenty of answers were provided along with a tremendous number of starting points to send you off in search of understanding and answers on your own - ultimately you are accountable to yourself for getting the answers to your questions. The source of most of the commonly used energy healing all traces back to the same starting points and that has been spelled out over and over now....yet you keep reiterating your ignorance and laying it at the feet of others in terms of responsibility.

Also Bella...I mean Rosabella already explained why your request will not be granted. If they say they aren't going to take a stand on it at this time.....then obviously they aren't going to put it in writing at this time. There's plenty of suggestions though if you read through the conference talks carefully! It would appear though that you want to be commanded in all things....

Choose wisely!

Good luck!

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9832

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by JohnnyL »

Jason wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:And we come full circle, again, without anyone having answered any of the previous questions in this thread, in the "Battling Energy healing" thread, or in the "Is Tickling from Satan?" thread.

PLEASE, ANSWER THE MANY QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS **DIRECTLY** from these threads--don't just post pages of quotes that have little or nothing to do with any of the questions we have asked the "anti-energy healing" believers to answer.
...
Good luck trying to get actual answers to those questions? Yeah, that's how I feel about it, too! "Good luck, none will be coming", eh?! ;) Seriously, folks...
Let's call a spade a spade. You don't want answers. Plenty of answers were provided along with a tremendous number of starting points to send you off in search of understanding and answers on your own - ultimately you are accountable to yourself for getting the answers to your questions. The source of most of the commonly used energy healing all traces back to the same starting points and that has been spelled out over and over now....yet you keep reiterating your ignorance and laying it at the feet of others in terms of responsibility.

Also Bella...I mean Rosabella already explained why your request will not be granted. If they say they aren't going to take a stand on it at this time.....then obviously they aren't going to put it in writing at this time. There's plenty of suggestions though if you read through the conference talks carefully! It would appear though that you want to be commanded in all things....

Choose wisely!

Good luck![/quote]

Nope, I'd surely like actual answers to the questions. I think it's like this: no one from the anti-healing opinion can give them and remain wholly committed that energy healing is Satanic. I understand.

I also understand that even though many understand this about themselves, no one wants to change their opinion (because really, that's all it is...). I understand.

I even understand that in the face of all that, when the next person asks about energy healing, the same endless and mostly useless quotes will be thrown up, along with many rumors about what Rosabella says the prophet and apostles and the GA's say, etc., and it will be paraded as "the truth"; and that when I ask once more for answers to questions, I won't get any. In the meantime, I see nothing in the conference talks that uphold your POV. I know people can see and find what they want in many things, while everyone else is going, "um... nope." "But that's ok, they just need the Spirit more, and then they'll see what WE (correctly) see!" Is that the way it is?

Maybe we could start with these questions:
If someone studies languages and has the gift to learn them, but is not LDS, is that a deception from Satan or a corruption of God's gift?

Is my car from God or Satan?

Is my suit from God or Satan?

If my car runs out of gas, is it ok to add gas, or just give it a priesthood blessing all the time?

If my suit (especially my Sunday suit) gets a tear, do I sew it with thread or just give it a priesthood blessing?

Should I lock my door at night, or just give my house a priesthood blessing?

Should I wear my seatbelt, or just give my car a priesthood blessing/ just get a priesthood blessing to heal me or get raised from the dead if I get in an accident?

If I am very excited about my new car, and like to drive it everywhere, and offer rides to everyone, instead of relying on priesthood miracles of being carried by the Spirit from one place to another, am I consciously or being duped by Satan?

bellafuego
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 1

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by bellafuego »

I don't know which GA's Bella talked to but I have specifically discussed body talk with them. They said it meets their requirements as a legitimate form of healing. Did you know that the church has a special investigative team that investigates these different types of energy healing modalities? Elder Holland in this last conference stated "seek the advice of reputable people with certified training, professional skills, and good values. Be honest with them about your history and your struggles. Prayerfully and responsibly consider the counsel they give and the solutions they prescribe. If you had appendicitis, God would expect you to seek a priesthood blessing and get the best medical care available. So too with emotional disorders. Our Father in Heaven expects us to use all of the marvelous gifts He has provided in this glorious dispensation." Body talk is a mixture of eastern and western medicine. This energy medicine which you all speak of has been around for many years. It is commonly referred to as Chinese medicine. Our Eastern members and friends have used this for years. So honestly people think about it. Eastern energy medicine is not of the devil do you really think the church would pull it and tell our members in India and china and in Europe that they have been deceived, when that is all they have known and it is working for them and has for generations. The spirit is energy we are made up of energy. Yes you need to follow Elder Holland's advice and seek out people who are trained in dealing with what you have going on. The church requires that any modality have a certification process and that the modality be in at least two peer reviewed journals. Body talk practitioners are certified and there are several studies in peer reviewed journals validating body talk as an alternative to traditional western medicine. Pray about it, it's not for everyone but it has helped many people heal both physically and emotionally. God is all knowing, nowhere does he say western medicine is the only way to heal. For us in the Western hemisphere western medicine is what we know, it is what we were raised with. It is natural to be skeptical but truth is throughout the world and God doesn't limit healing to only happen through his priesthood or western medicine. He provides multiple ways to heal and multiple people to assist in the healing process. So my advice is get your priesthood blessings, pray you might feel guided to try body talk as the best modality to help you heal or you might not. I am grateful for personal revelation and that what might be right for me may not be right for you and I respect that. I try to research things out do all I can do, I believe ignorance creates fear, research for yourself ask questions talk with people who have had it done or interview a practitioner to get a better understanding. By their fruits ye shall know them. Trust your intuition and instincts, we have the gift of the holy ghost. I have had body talk done and I felt the spirit so strongly in my sessions that for me it is of God, nothing it does has taken away from my testimony and was not against the gospel. For the gospel is love, truth and light and for me and my experience with body talk it was an act of love done in truth and light.

bethany
captain of 100
Posts: 602

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by bethany »

Rosabella wrote:In meeting with the General Authorities we discussed in great detail the energy healing and the popularity of within and without the Church. They made it very clear that it was something we were not to participate in. I have an extended relative that is an energy healer. She was told by her Bishop and Stake President to quit completely or she could not have a temple recommend she was not happy with this order but did comply. So there appears to be different actions being taken or appear to be. I have also spoken with a person that talks in-depth with Elder Pace. He has also verified the stand the Church takes on energy healing and all the other occult practices..
This is an interesting comment. Approximately 4 years ago I placed a call to Elder Pace's office in behalf of a family member dealing with that subject for which Elder Pace is rather known for. He returned my call a couple days later & spent abt 45 min. On the phone with me personally. I explained to him the avenues we had learned about... Dr. Fish, & other energy healers... He was very compassionate in the conversation... Shared with me how often he would bless people to have the troubles continue... I have conversed with a number of those people who share that sentiment... And in the end, I explained to Elder Pace that I very much wanted to work within the parameters of the priesthood & could he recommend anyone who had understanding in the subject. He then told me 'no'... At that point I wanted nothing to do with energy healers because I preferred using the priesthood. He encouraged me to continue to seek help through energy healers. I was as adamant as I could be that I preferred the traditional path that I had grown to trust. And quite frankly that conversation was the impetus for me to go out & learn for myself how to do this work. I have met & used healers who after a couple sessions I knew had issues & I never went back, & I would release what they had done. & I have met incredible healers who are deeply committed to Christ. I've also met corrupt priesthood holders & honest ones. So I find this claim that Elder Pace said this as an inclusive to all energy healing impossible to believe, as I spoke to him personally. I made it as clear as I possibly could to him long before I waded into this type of work that his advice was being given extreme weight. I doubt that he would take his counsel so lightly.
Last edited by bethany on December 18th, 2013, 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bethany
captain of 100
Posts: 602

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by bethany »

BrianM wrote:
deepdoctrine wrote:It's strange to me that a person can be living in harmony with the gospel, have a temple recommend, have a testimony, appear to be quite spiritual - yet be deceived by something like this ...She has said the spirit has vividly told her this is something that is right for her and something she should pursue as a profession.
The spirit told her to heal people for money?

That doesn't sound like something the Holy Ghost would tell someone. Sounds like a deceiving spirit to me.

Acts 8:20 "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money"

BodyTalk is a form of spiritual healing, it's not hard to guess which spirit is doing the healing when there is money involved.
As an energy healer... i spend hours a day doing this work... I personally have never accepted any payment for my own work. However I choose to pay well those that I engage in my behalf because I do not have a right to monopolize their time away from their family. I choose to give freely what I do. But I also choose to pay those who serve me. I cannot speak for all healers & their methods, my work involves generational & emotional issues & it does require spending time with a person & discussing what their needs are. I haven't met any priesthood holders who are out spending these types of hours engaged in healing. Those that do are rare... thinking of Brother Wolfgram here. I've watched quite a number of family members of people that I have worked with turn their lives around, repent & go back to church when their emotional blocks are removed. I did one quick session on a woman in Az. at the request of her father... removed her deep depression... guess who went from hating church, being entrenched in her feelings against it, to suddenly heading for a temple marriage. Her father was deeply grateful for her turn around. Being overwhelmed with depression is a huge block to spirituality & can certainly blur your sensitivities & cause you to feel that God has abandoned you. It literally took about 30 minutes to undo her issue. Her issue was what is called a despair anchor. Having experienced one, I can state that you can't see anything but despair & hopelessness when you have one. Remove it & it is just like turning on a light in a black room, the difference is immediate & extreme.

A large part of my studies have centered on Dr. Bradley Nelson's works. It has been very effective & saved a small fortune in medical bills. I would be curious to know what the church's position is on Brother Nelson's career of spreading energy healing globally?

bethany
captain of 100
Posts: 602

Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by bethany »

Rand wrote:Okay, this turned into a "Rant", read at your own risk.
Sharon, I have to agree. I read these posts with some interest. I am not involved with Body Talk, but I do do acupuncture and am a practicing Chiropractor. I find it fascinating that I find amazing doctrinal convergences in Acupuncture, chiropractic and The Gospel of Jesus Christ. However, I find no true "principle" involved in western medicine at all. Nearly the entire practice of medicine is stifling symptoms with drugs, at the expense of learning and growing through the afflictions life brings. Yet, the church culturally embraces medicine as a whole with no questions asked.

Brigham Young was a great detractor to medicine as a practice. Yet today we revere it's practice above the Priesthood blessing, if I understand Elder Oaks recent talk. Can someone shed some light on this contradiction to me? Why is energy medicine bad, but chemical medicine is good? Why is it bad to get a tattoo but good to have an organ surgically hacked out? Or, I can get botox, and a breast enhancement and that is okay, but not an energy treatment, because that is of the devil?

Why not extra ear rings, but we can have a knee we abused and didn't care for properly replaced, and that is okay? Help me out? I have such a hard time with these sweeping condemnations and acceptations that seem to be going on. Why don't we have to fast and pray before we go to our internist? Why is it we can go to our internist who was inspired to go into medicine and we can pay him, and that is okay, but not our energy healer? Why can that not be a course someone is inspired to pursue?

I just don't get it. Some here can spot a conspiracy theory a mile away with 9/11, or the Fed, but this doesn't stink to you? Big Pharma has now been deemed holy, and everything else evil. Sheesh. In my opinion, Satan gets way more mileage from antidepressants, as far as limiting eternal progress, than he does from any and all forms of energy work put together.
nicely said!

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