Astrology of India

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CALAWAY51
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Astrology of India

Post by CALAWAY51 »

In the past, both astrology and astronomy were identical, with the craving for analytical and divinatory knowledge one of the main inspiring factors for astronomical observation. Astronomy began to deviate from astrology after a long period of slow separation in the 18th century.

It has since then distinguished itself as technical study of astronomical substance and phenomena, placing no significance on these phenomena's supposed astrological association. Indian Horoscope also differs considerably from the Chinese horoscope. The later is based on the year of birth and believes that the year of birth designates a definite chapter or aspect of sixty year circle of time.

Hence one may find himself to born in the year of dog, horse or rat or even a dragon. People born in a particular animal year share certain common characters just like people born in common zodiac. Indian astrology is highly genuine and its predictions are believed to be the most precise.

Based on the tangible constellations of stars, it is the most broadly used system of astrology across the world. It has played a significant nature in the shaping of civilization, early astronomy, and other disciplines throughout history.

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kathyn
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Re: Astrology of India

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Heavenly Father is the most organized being in the universe. He has placed all of the stars and planets in their orbits. He does use them for signs and symbols. However, astrologists don't have the knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ and don't fully understand what these signs and symbols mean. They know they mean something, but they don't know what, so they are making their best guesses. That's my take on this.

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Re: Astrology of India

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Revelation is never wrong, seek it, not some man made star readings.

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Mahonri
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Re: Astrology of India

Post by Mahonri »

ya, those crazy wise men following a star to find the Savior. They were a bunch of morons :roll:

gruden
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Re: Astrology of India

Post by gruden »

I need to check out that apostate book again by Quinn, but he documented how early members of the Church (including the Smith family) did practice astrology and phrenology to some degree. The Book of Abraham hints at the significance of those things. I often think Western science has robbed us at least some of the ability to appreciate and understand the true working of God's hands.

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Re: Astrology of India

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AussieOi
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Re: Astrology of India

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Mazal wrote:Mahonri and gruden,

Astrology is a fraud and a counterfeit from Satan. Rely on the spirit. Have faith in God not some voodoo science.

“There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or witch,

“Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

“For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord. …” (Deut. 18:10–12.)

"Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee."

"Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." (Isa. 47:13–14.)

Astrology is not light. It a strange path designed by the devil to lead many astray. It is truly a spiritual/religious secret combination of sorts.

i dont disagree
but doesnt counterfeit suggest that there is a true original source?
i could argue that "christianity" is a counterfeit of what christ taught.
withouth question there are elements we dont understand with regards to constellations and our personalities
dont throw the baby out with the bathwater
perhaps the middle ground is astronomy?

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AussieOi
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Re: Astrology of India

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Mazal wrote:AussieOi wrote: “doesnt counterfeit suggest that there is a true original source?”
Church leaders and Church resources teach that astrology is a counterfeit of revelation, to distract people from truth, and to naysay individual accountability. I was not suggesting or leaving any kind of room to open up the possibility that true divinatory knowledge can come from constellations; that to me is strange. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses the constellations as away to reveal the whole future for each person’s life. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses the patterns and cycles of heavenly bodies to determine when a person will be better or worse off for certain actions to take place. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses animals and birth years to determine our personalities.

AussieOi wrote: “i could argue that "christianity" is a counterfeit of what christ taught.”
I don’t disagree, especially in light of what we know of the great apostasy.

AussieOi wrote: “withouth question there are elements we dont understand with regards to constellations and our personalities”
True

AussieOi wrote: “perhaps the middle ground is astronomy?”
I believe in seeking truth within the bounds the Lord has set; once someone goes outside these bounds only falsehoods are obtained. To get people to cross the Lord’s bounds Satan has chosen to preach lies laced with bits of truths and this causes much confusion. The light he offers is diffused and not bright. When people wander outside the Lord’s bounds they lose their sense of where they are going and end up wandering into strange paths such as astrology.

Throughout different periods of my life I have learned that “because of the simpleness of the way, or the easiness of it” living the gospel got to be mundane and I have wondered,”Is this it?” But my unexciting feelings and thoughts toward the gospel was just a warning that I was losing focus not an invitation to explore some “special knowledge” promised by the founder of lies. My mundane attitude was to me a signal that I am not fully converted yet and that I needed to regain a fresh view of the gospel and to endure to the end all of the days of my life, holding to the iron rod the whole way. My mundane attitude was evidence I was allowing falsehoods to enter my beliefs and I was becoming slothful and was not on the “watch”. I needed to have an attitude adjustment and repent of the lies I started to believe in. While I have never given much thought to astrology, I do know that the true Seers and Revelators do not need astrology to do Heavenly Father’s work and are completely at peace concerning their path back to Him. That is good enough for me.

i agree with most you said here

i winder if you are one of those who says to "no, i won't look at theat because it does not pertain to my eternal salvation"

Black Swan
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Re: Astrology of India

Post by Black Swan »

Mazal wrote:AussieOi wrote: “doesnt counterfeit suggest that there is a true original source?”
Church leaders and Church resources teach that astrology is a counterfeit of revelation, to distract people from truth, and to naysay individual accountability. I was not suggesting or leaving any kind of room to open up the possibility that true divinatory knowledge can come from constellations; that to me is strange. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses the constellations as away to reveal the whole future for each person’s life. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses the patterns and cycles of heavenly bodies to determine when a person will be better or worse off for certain actions to take place. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses animals and birth years to determine our personalities.

AussieOi wrote: “i could argue that "christianity" is a counterfeit of what christ taught.”
I don’t disagree, especially in light of what we know of the great apostasy.

AussieOi wrote: “withouth question there are elements we dont understand with regards to constellations and our personalities”
True

AussieOi wrote: “perhaps the middle ground is astronomy?”
I believe in seeking truth within the bounds the Lord has set; once someone goes outside these bounds only falsehoods are obtained. To get people to cross the Lord’s bounds Satan has chosen to preach lies laced with bits of truths and this causes much confusion. The light he offers is diffused and not bright. When people wander outside the Lord’s bounds they lose their sense of where they are going and end up wandering into strange paths such as astrology.

Are you claiming that astronomy and the study of stars, their movements, their relation to our existence here and the like is "outside the bounds". The connection you make between astronomy and astrology, as defined by popular culture, is tenuous, at best. Scriptures and many other inspired men have repeatedly claimed the divine nature of our planet, its movements and the signs in the heavens...but yet you make a connection between true astronomy as being "outside the bounds" where "only falsehoods are obtained"?

Throughout different periods of my life I have learned that “because of the simpleness of the way, or the easiness of it” living the gospel got to be mundane and I have wondered,”Is this it?” But my unexciting feelings and thoughts toward the gospel was just a warning that I was losing focus not an invitation to explore some “special knowledge” promised by the founder of lies. My mundane attitude was to me a signal that I am not fully converted yet and that I needed to regain a fresh view of the gospel and to endure to the end all of the days of my life, holding to the iron rod the whole way. My mundane attitude was evidence I was allowing falsehoods to enter my beliefs and I was becoming slothful and was not on the “watch”. I needed to have an attitude adjustment and repent of the lies I started to believe in. While I have never given much thought to astrology, I do know that the true Seers and Revelators do not need astrology to do Heavenly Father’s work and are completely at peace concerning their path back to Him. That is good enough for me.
I'm going to have to disagree with the premise of what you wrote. Far too many people are far too derogatory to certain members who search truth wherever they can find it. There is LOTS of truth in both Astronomy and the study of the heavens, the movements and the like. Astronomy has gotten a bad rap from those who mistakenly confuse it with Tarot readings, palm readings, etc. By mistakenly, I mean people confuse the true meaning of both Astronomy and Astrology. Astrology was, times past, the "science of Astronomy" and the two were essentially the same, the study of the stars, their movements, their meanings and everything in between, but no longer. Astrology, like other aspects of life and study, has degenerated. It may be mere semantics, but understanding the true nature of Astronomy should be pursued before lambasting it and categorizing it as a way to get false revelation, or other false traditions we hold on to.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/astrology

While it may not be for you, please don't presume that it's littered with lies, falsehoods and Satan's distortions. There are many good resources out there available for the inquiring mind...sources that align themselves with truth. Truth, as you know, isn't cornered in our religion. Truth can and is found everywhere. John Taylor, among MANY others, encouraged us to go wherever we could to find it.

For instance, have you taken the time to study the 4 Royal Stars, the symbolism of Venus (it's times and seasons), the constellations testifying of the Seven Angels (derived, in part, from the Book of Enoch), the myth of Perseus and how it relates to Joseph Smith, or many other interesting queries which come from both Astronomy and signs of the Zodiac and other areas you'd probably classify as "taboo"??

Believe what you want, but before castigating the ENTIRE study of something, please be cognizant of the fact that other people can and indeed do find truth where others (a) refuse to go and where many (b) refuse others from going.

A good start would be here: http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds ... mastr.html

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds ... tions.html
"and inasmuch as the Lord Almighty has designed us to know all that is in the earth, both the good and the evil, and to learn not only what is in heaven, but what is in hell ... If I were to go into the bowels of hell to find out what is there, that does not make it necessary that I should commit one evil, or blaspheme in any way the name of my Maker." - Brigham Young
“The things of God are of deep import, and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God.” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, ed. B. H. Roberts, 3:295.)
God Himself will allow Satan to ply your scrutinizing eye with powers and sophistications far beyond your capacity to detect. Do you say then, I will stand aloof from investigation, I will shun all acquaintance with these mysterious workings, in order that I may not be carried away with their delusive influence. Vain hope. Oh, man, you cannot be neutral. You must choose your side and put on your armor. Those that come not up to the help of the Lord in the day of battle, will be sorely cursed. The captive Hebrew Daniel stood up boldly against all the governors and whole realm of Babylon with their monarch at their head. Daniel readily acknowledged that it was not from any wisdom in him..." - John Taylor

Rosabella
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Re: Astrology of India

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The LDS Church is directly opposed to Astrology. Astrology is Occult. There is no truth in it that should be used. We have been warned again and again to stay away from the occult/astrology.

There are many articles on LDS.org.
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... rchContent

Here is one. http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

Bjarne Christensen, “The Precarious Age of Aquarius,” New Era, Nov 1972, 31

There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors, and hail a materialist or magician with the same delight.
C. S. Lewis

“What sign are you, Brother Christensen?” was a question hurled at me as I entered the Sunday School classroom one bright Sabbath morning not long ago. The same question was directed to the ancient prophet Isaiah in Biblical times. We do not know under which sign he was born, but we know what his reaction was to the question. It was not the same as mine. “I’m an Aries,” I said. A lively discussion of astrology followed during which the thought-provoking question was asked: “Is astrology or any other occult practice part of the Savior’s plan for mankind?”

It is a question we might all ask ourselves these days when seemingly harmless activities such as astrology, palmistry, fortune-telling, and other mystical routines enjoy hit-parade popularity.

A thirty-five-year-old retired football player specializes in stock-market astrology. By using the horoscopes of certain companies, with the date of the incorporation as the birth time, he delivers a recommendation for a single stock for a $25 fee, a complete portfolio for $1,000. An astrologer in Chicago makes his living by using animal horoscopes to predict winners of horse races. Sitters in Berkeley, California, ask to see the zodiac sign of a child before they agree to sit.

Former United Nations Secretary-General U Thant received an urgent message from Marlene Dietrich warning about bad astrological dates for special sessions of the General Assembly.

“The Age of Aquarius,” the hit song from the Broadway musical Hair, whose cast included an astrologer, says that “peace will guide the planets and love will rule the stars.” As the theory goes, this new age is supposed to be a spiritual beginning marked by universal brotherhood and the shedding of hurtful inhibitions. To its followers the Aquarian Age is hardly whimsical or eccentric. There is no question that the architects of our pop culture, for example, take with extreme seriousness the zodiac signs.

And many young people go into the occult sincerely determined to make a success of it by learning all the proper techniques of magic. Time magazine, September 27, 1968, said of them:

“Hippies, with their drug-sensitized yen for magic, are perhaps the prime movers behind this phenomenon. Not only do they sport beads and amulets that have supposed magical powers, they also believe firmly and frighteningly in witchcraft.”

In major cities, shops devoted to selling amulets, potions, candles, herbs, magical tools, incense, and ceremonial garments have opened up.

Such concern for the arcane on the part of some people is an attempt to find enrichment for perplexed and arid lives. Disillusioned with life as they now find it, they hope to find answers by using the power of magic to create a meaningful existence. This suggests that the occult may be a form of religion. Psychologists compare the fascination for the occult to the fast-rising pseudo interest in Oriental religions such as Zen Buddhism. A belief in reincarnation, for example, is considered part and parcel of astrology. “Never before in history has a single society taken up such a wide range of religious and near-religious systems at once,” states an article in Life magazine.

Of course, many people just go into the supernatural wanting something new and sensational to play with, something to dip into from time to time. Indeed, many Church members, both young and old, have, as millions of others, searched for artificial guidance in one of the 1200 daily newspapers in the United States that now carry horoscope columns. But whatever the motivation for this new interest in astrology, it is evident that the movement is already the victim of exploiters who have moved in for the financial kill.

Time magazine estimates that there are now more than 10,000 full-time astrologers in the United States and 175,000 practicing the art part-time. Rock music groups grind out albums dealing with astrology and the mystical. Bookstores are crowded with publications on mysticism, the occult, and metaphysics. This year it is estimated that people in this country will spend in excess of $150,000,000 on the occult. A personal reading of your chart by a professional astrologer costs an average of $35. Astrology magazines sell 10 million copies a year. Department stores offer clothes and jewelry (including $89, 18-carat-gold charms) styled to each of the twelve zodiac signs. Computers in public places cough out horoscopes or interpretations of your handwriting at $5 apiece.

This belief in the mystical is certainly not a new ideology. The first astrologers are believed to have been pagan priests in the ancient kingdom of Babylonia. In Biblical times, Isaiah, Daniel, and other prophets condemned those who told fortunes and practiced witchcraft as evil for calling on supernatural powers other than God.

From the history of the dark ages we have learned how both Catholics and Protestants led a virtual war against the psychic and the occult. Witch hunts spread to America during the colonial years. Our language still reflects several words, for instance, that evidence an astrological influence. We say that a man is jovial, a word that stems from the planet Jove. The word mercurial comes from Mercury, and saturnine from Saturn. When someone met with disaster, it was due to his aster or star.

To list the superficial and some times dreadful examples of a movement like this is surely elementary. A more formidable task for most of us is to probe unbelievable claims.

Let’s take a hard look!

Astrology is based on scientific evidence and provides a key to the future, says a noted astrologer. More than 20 million Americans seem to agree.

The movement and positions of the planets in the universe affect individual people and events here on earth, they say. The horoscope is a study and interpretation of the heavenly bodies that apply to an individual, according to his sign or date and hour of birth. The interpretation by the astrologer can be affected by four separate forces, all dealing with extrasensory perception (ESP):

1. Precognition, the awareness of an event that has not yet happened.

2. Clairvoyance, seeing an event with your own mind without being near the event.

3. Telepathy, unspoken communication from one person to another.

4. Psychokinesis (PK), influencing or actually moving physical objects with your thoughts.

One of the best known astrologers working with these principles is probably Jeanne Dixon. She even claims to be a prophetess. Sometimes she has made predictions that apparently turned out to be true. She and other astrologers claim that everybody has ESP or PK. “Although we don’t know exactly what they are and how they work, we have learned to bring them out in ourselves,” they say.

Scientists who have studied astrology and all its claims charge that results of ESP and the like have not been proven scientifically. Indeed, attempts to nail down scientific proof are often as unsatisfactory as the supernatural claims of the occultist. Celestial bodies, of course, can affect life on our planet. The moon influences ocean tides as well as the habits of many marine animals. But does the location of specific planets and stars at the time of a person’s birth make a difference in that person’s life?

“lt is impossible for science ever to prove a universal negative (that something is always untrue in every case),” writes Hudson Hoagland, a member of the board of directors of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. “There will be cases that remain unexplained because of lack of data, lack of repeatability, false reporting, wishful thinking, deluded observers, rumors, lies, and fraud.” Declares professor Gibson Reaves of the University of Southern California Astronomy Department: “Nobody has ever proved finally that astrology doesn’t work. But the important thing is that there is little, if any, evidence that it does.”

Some teenagers say that astrology helps them to discover more about themselves. “A good horoscope,” says one teen, “makes you realize that what you do matters.”

“I’d sooner feel that my future was being shaped by the stars or by the turn of the cards. These could represent powers more concerned about me than either my draft board or the Pentagon,” said another.

The theories of man’s relationship to the universe as developed by astrologers are impersonal in the sense that they take no special account of man’s own aspirations and status. Astrology gives us only a false image of what we really are. As members of the Church we should be especially cognizant of the idea that only by truly knowing ourselves and our relationship with God can we grow and progress. Josh Billings said, “It is not only the most difficult thing to know oneself, it is the most inconvenient one, too.” Using astrology as a means of gaining self knowledge then is really a cop-out.

A professional astrologer admits that horoscopes are used by many people seeking to escape from themselves, people who otherwise might have gone overboard on drugs or alcohol. This is confirmed by Diane, a young student, who said, “It is just like being addicted to a drug, because you just have to know what’s going to happen to you from one day to the next.”

Astrologers claim that horoscopes are really maps to guide an individual to a better life. “This map allows the user his free will to operate after you get what is indicated,” says a noted astrologer.

Note that the emphasis here is on “what you get” (power, love, money, influence). Since man by his very nature is a seeker of meanings, it is understandable that many people acquire an immediate emotional satisfaction from the interpretation of their horoscopes. But by accepting and applying that sort of information to our lives, are we not really relinquishing our freedom and submitting to a crude and transparent guidance system that is not correct? Some people, of course, find it economically profitable to mislead us with inaccurate information.

Furthermore, we do not need any fake Liahonas. But we do need to apply our faith for genuine guidance in a modern world filled with substitutes. As A. E. Housman says: “The house of delusions is cheap to build but drafty to live in.”

The Reverend Andres M. Greeley, a Roman Catholic priest and lecturer in sociology at the University of Chicago, writes: “What is going on is authentically, if perhaps transiently and bizarrely, religious.” He calls it “the new pursuit of the sacred.”

More likely, the increased interest has something to do with the frail role religion has played in the recent decades throughout the western world. During the last chaotic period of the Roman Empire, people also took to horoscopes and the supernatural, like drugs, in the name of religion. Then, as now, the occult movement had many seeming similarities with spiritual experiences. One must nevertheless be aware not only of the similarities but also the differences. We must look behind the words. We are sometimes blind to what is behind the label. We often assume that two things labeled by the same name are identical. “We see things not as they are,” said a wise man, “but as we are.”

Genuine spirituality warms and grows in our hearts. The fake spirituality is often scary and leaves scars. Permanently. There is usually no mention of God in the occult, only signs. Yet we have learned not to seek for signs. The effect of bizarre cultism is immediate but temporary. The sacred grows slowly, must be nurtured, and leaves lasting effects.

“We were playing with a Ouija board in school one day,” said JoAnn, a Laurel in Southern California. “We kept asking questions and the board kept answering correctly. I became increasingly frightened and eventually so scared that I fled from the room. I couldn’t sleep for days. I kept waking up with nightmares. It was a horrible experience. We are told to seek for the positive in life,” she continued, “but the negative is just as powerful. By forcing all your attention and your thoughts on an object, using ritual to make the image emotional, you can easily surrender your consciousness to evil powers.”

So look for the differences that make a difference.

Jeanne Dixon has predicted many things that have come to pass. Doesn’t that make her a prophetess as she claims? Others, like Edgar Cayce, have also had supernatural experiences that frankly are sensational.

The predictions that have not come true are also spectacular. One of the leading clairvoyants of our day predicted, for example, that in 1970 California would slide into the sea, a cure for cancer would be found, and Ronald Reagan would be defeated in the California election for governor. All predictions that come to pass are front-page news. Few are published when they do not ring true. Certainly, some predictions seem truly remarkable and have had national attention, but in applying Hugh B. Brown’s “Profile of a Prophet” to the claims made, these so-called prophets are seen in an entirely different light.

Anyone who claims to be a prophet, says Elder Brown—

A. Will boldly claim that God has spoken to him.

B. Will be a dignified individual with a dignified message; no table jumping, no whisperings from the dead, no clairvoyance, but an intelligent statement of truth.

C. Will declare, “Thus saith the Lord.”

D. Will give his life for his declaration, if necessary.

The modern-day soothsayers obviously do not qualify, but how many people know that?

Because Satan operates in a largely unknown realm, few of us realize his subtle and puzzling power to spread near-truths and to fill our minds with cobwebs of confusion.

He operates through those who unknowingly invite him into their presence, not so much to further their own aims in life, but to use them to lure as many people away from truth and life as he can.

Strong evidence for the existence of the devil is often given by individuals who know they have come in contact with him. Beth, a young California housewife, has been involved in astrology and fortune-telling since high school. She had attended many séances (meetings in which spirits are invited to come to a group to possess the body of an individual and to speak through that person). At one séance, after she dared to invite the spirits to take control of her body and as she felt them actually doing so, she panicked and changed her mind, fighting them off.

Following this close call, there were aftereffects. “I felt like I was in a pit,” she says, “and all these spirits were standing over me. I heard them laughing at me and saying, ‘We’ve got you now.’ ” Also, Beth found herself developing a split personality.

Both psychiatry and psychology recognize the crippling effects of spiritistic activity upon the mind. In his book, The Haunting of Bishop Pike, Merrill Unger states, “Sustained practice of occultism produces symptoms of split personalities. Psychiatry characterizes the resulting disorder as ‘mediumistic psychosis.’ ”

In Answers to Gospel Questions, President Joseph Fielding Smith gave some very sound advice concerning the problem of receiving guidance from mediums, magicians, or astrologers. He said:

“The Lord has pointed out very clearly the course that we should take in obtaining inspiration for our guidance. When a person is baptized and receives the Holy Ghost, he is promised that he will receive the necessary guidance for his spiritual and temporal good, provided he is true to his covenants. The Lord will not dwell in unclean tabernacles. Therefore, in order that we may keep ourselves in harmony with the Spirit of the Lord, we must be mentally, spiritually, and bodily clean from every contaminating influence.”

Remember, nothing Satan does is good, although he does a lot of things that look good.

Coming back to Isaiah’s reaction to the astrologers and soothsayers, we see a genuine prophet about his Father’s business. His answer, unsophisticated and deceptively simple, is nevertheless an illuminating ray of spiritual insight for today.

He merely asked: “Will it save you?”



Here is another:

Terry J. Moyer, “Questions Astrologers Avoid Like Cancer,” New Era, Mar 1979, 14–17

(file with Palm-reading, Phrenology, Tea-leaf Reading, Numerology, and Dr. Mugwump’s Miracle Snake-oil Medicine)

Astrology, once the domain of Babylonian magicians and Himalayan gurus, has arrived in the 20th-century suburbs. You see zodiac names on belt buckles and bumper stickers and medallions. You hear horoscope hypes in the top ten records. Zodiac magazines, charms, earrings, bracelets, patches, potholders, license-plate holders, calendars, and other assorted rubble sell like never before. Alas, even seminary students seem to know “which sign they were born under.”

So far, no problem. Everyone enjoys a harmless fad, if it doesn’t go too far.

Unless. Unless you start to believe that it’s something more than a fad. For the plain facts are that astrology is—

A. An ancient form of magic.

B. Absolutely without objective evidence or scientific support.

C. A rotten way to make life’s decisions.

D. Satan’s counterfeit for real prophecy.

E. All of the above.


Astrology books are full of scientific-sounding nonsense and claims that it is an authentic science or an art. Daily horoscope articles are filled with broad generalities so that what is said about Pisces could be true for everyone who has ever lived. Meanwhile, astrologers have found that astrology fans and their money are soon parted. Paraphrasing P. T. Barnum, “There’s an astrology fan (sucker) born every minute.”

But let’s get down to some specifics. Here are 25 darts to throw at the overinflated windbag of astrology, questions to give fits to your local authorized horoscope hawker.

1. Astrology is based on the idea that the Earth is at the center of space, with the sun, moon, planets, and stars revolving around it. If astrology worked under those false ideas, why does it now work under a completely different concept?

2. There is a slight wobble in the Earth’s axis, which has moved the starting point of spring (scientists call it the vernal equinox) out of its ancient position in Aries and almost through Pisces. The astrologers tell us that the sun is in Aries when in fact it has left Aries and is getting close to Aquarius. How then does Aries still influence people?

3. Astrologers claim that the only constellations of stars that influence our lives enough to matter are the 12 constellations of the zodiac, through which the sun, moon, and planets appear to pass. Why so? Orion has brighter stars than the constellations of the zodiac and is closer to the path of the sun, moon, and planets than large parts of many zodiac signs.

4. Astrologers tell us that there are 12 signs of the zodiac. But many star atlases show 13 constellations along the path of the sun, moon, and planets. (The 13th constellation is Ophiuchus, the Serpent Bearer.) Why do Sagittarius and Scorpio influence our lives, but not Ophiuchus?

5. The constellation Leo the Lion is supposed to cause some people to act like a lion: proud, kingly, as one in authority. What if the ancients had named that group of stars Lulu the Lamb? Would those stars then make people timid?

6. Astrologers claim that the sign of the zodiac that is rising over the horizon at the moment of your birth is vitally important in determining your whole future. Why that sign? Why not the one directly overhead at the time or the one just setting? How does the ascendant sign manage to cancel out the influence of the other zodiac signs that are nearby?

7. People at or near the poles have the sun above the horizon for up to six months at a time. The moon remains in the sky for two weeks nonstop. Some planets are above the horizon for months at a time without setting. Shouldn’t people born in northern Finland or southern Argentina (in latitudes approaching the poles) be drastically different from other people since they live where such unusual circumstances occur?

8. The ancients knew nothing of Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto but were supposedly able to make accurate horoscopes anyway. In those days Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto apparently had no influence on people’s lives. Why then do most astrologers today include these planets in their horoscopes?

9. And what of asteroids? Astrologers do not plot the location of such bodies on their horoscopes. Yet most of the asteroids in our solar system exert far more gravitational influence upon the Earth and its people than even the nearest stars. How can astrologers overlook bodies up to 500 miles in diameter so close to the Earth?

10. Then there’s Pluto. At great distance from the Earth, this tiny planet nonetheless is said to have great influence on the fate of humans on faraway Earth. If Pluto can influence us, why not the moons of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune, all of which are closer to Earth and many of which are larger than Pluto? How can astrologers omit the influence of these bodies from their horoscopes?

11. Astrologers tell us that light radiations from distant stars and planets influence the decisions we make. But the stars near the horizon are weaker than those overhead, having more atmosphere to pass through. Why then is the weaker light of the ascendant sign on the horizon more important in our lives than the stronger light of signs overhead?

12. And what of light curved by Earth’s atmosphere and gravity? In the morning the sun, moon, or planets might be seen as if in the ascendant house above the horizon when in fact they are still below the horizon in the zone of another house. How could an astrologer be accurate if he charted the sun in one house above the horizon (the all-important ascendant zone) when it was actually below the horizon in a different house?

13. It is obvious that the sun and moon exert a great influence on life on Earth, as with the tides, for instance. Taken separately, either the sun or the moon has more influence on tides than all planets and stars combined. Why then don’t horoscope charts give vastly greater consideration to the influence of the sun and the moon?

14. The Milky Way galaxy runs through the constellations Gemini and Sagittarius. With billions more fairly close stars in these two constellations than in the other signs of the zodiac, why are Gemini and Sagittarius considered by astrologers to have pretty much the same degree of influence as the other signs?

15. If gravitational influences from distant stars and planets are so important, wouldn’t major sources of gravity variations on Earth influence one’s horoscope? Wouldn’t people near the great Mesabi iron ore deposit in Minnesota be more influenced by the Mesabi than by the very faint and vastly distant stars in the sign of Pisces?

16. And if radiation from distant stars can impel a person to a given fate, what of the folks near the atomic test site in Nevada? Were they born under the sign of the mushroom?

17. Or consider the consequences of walking on the moon! Since the moon supposedly has a vast influence on people’s destinies at 239,000 miles distance, shouldn’t Neil Armstrong have turned into a super-looney-moony-lunar-moonchild from having walked on the moon?

18. Then we have the problem of identical twins. Twins born minutes apart will have almost identical horoscopes and supposedly almost identical influences from the stars. Why then are some twins so dissimilar in temperament, interests, and achievements?

19. And what about babies born in hospital delivery rooms where no light of sun, moon, planets, or stars can penetrate? And doesn’t each doctor, nurse, table, chair, wall, bed, or vase of flowers exert more gravitational influence on the newborn babe than all the stars in the ascendant sign combined? Could it be that a baby is actually born under the sign of Oscar the Obstetrician?

20. For that matter, why do the stars choose the moment of birth as the time to decree a baby’s future? Would it not be more helpful if the stars were watching as the genes and chromosomes were sorting out the newly conceived child’s eye color, sex, and dimples?

21. Which brings us to the matter of actual changes that have occurred in recent history. For example, today we have far fewer infant deaths than in times past. Is this because of the influence of stars and planets, houses and horoscopes? Or is it the result of hard work by dedicated scientists and doctors?

22. And what of those scientists and doctors? How many professors of astronomy, medicine, chemistry, and physics believe in horoscopes and astrology? Why is it that the best-educated people find astrology to be a silly myth?

23. In every attempt to verify it as a true science, astrology has failed. Whether by astronomers, physicists, psychologists, demographers, or even astrologers in controlled tests using the scientific method, astrology has failed. The cases of correct predictions are no more than might have occurred from shrewd guesswork. Why, after thousands of years of trying, can horoscope experts produce not one reliable piece of evidence to support their claims?

24. In the Lord’s church today there are 68 General Authorities, including men whom we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators. Not one of them believes in astrology. There are approximately 185 Regional Representatives, about 970 stake presidents, and some 6,000 bishops. It may well be said that not one of these thousands of priesthood leaders, or their wives, or their counselors believes in astrology. Nor do the hundreds of patriarchs, mission presidents, institute teachers, seminary teachers, or presidencies and general boards of auxiliaries. If astrology is true, how can the leaders of the Lord’s church unanimously dismiss it as another of Satan’s tiresome counterfeits?

25. And finally, this: The prophets of God, both anciently and in modern times, have denounced astrology as merely another of Satan’s frauds. Through Moses, through Daniel, through Isaiah and Samuel, the Lord spoke out against astrologers, magicians, soothsayers, and observers of times.

In modern times the Saints have repeatedly been warned to place their faith in God and in his priesthood and to shun Satan’s works. How can Latter-day Saints seriously believe in astrology when the Lord and his prophets have denounced it? What need have we of horoscopes when we have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and patriarchal blessings, and prophets, and scriptures? Of what interest is pottage to those who are heirs to the birthright?

What Do the Scriptures Say about Astrology?
Leviticus 19:31 [Lev. 19:31]: “Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.”

Deuteronomy 18:9–14 [Deut. 18:9–14]: “When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

“There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

“Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

“For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

“Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.

“For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.”

Isaiah 8:19–20: [Isa. 8:19–20]: “And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to [hear from] the dead?

“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

Daniel 2:27–28: [Dan. 2:27–28]: “Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;

“But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.”

2 Kings 23:5: [2 Kgs. 23:5]: King Josiah “put down the idolatrous priests, … and … them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets.”

(See also Robert J. Matthews, “What the Scriptures Say about Astrology, Divination, Spirit Mediums, Magic, Wizardry, and Necromancy,” Ensign, March 1974, p. 26–28.)

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AussieOi
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6137
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Astrology of India

Post by AussieOi »

some good stuff there. that post in 1972 was probably very timely

my comment would be that i agree it has been corrupted and sold as a do all and a crutch, and is not from god- as we have whatevber it is today

thats not to say that one can't read abraham and see that astronomy has a very central part in our being and eternal existance

as i said- big difference between astronomy, and astrology.

isaacs2066
captain of 100
Posts: 380

Re: Astrology of India

Post by isaacs2066 »

Like wrote:AussieOi wrote: “doesnt counterfeit suggest that there is a true original source?”
Church leaders and Church resources teach that astrology is a counterfeit of revelation, to distract people from truth, and to naysay individual accountability. I was not suggesting or leaving any kind of room to open up the possibility that true divinatory knowledge can come from constellations; that to me is strange. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses the constellations as away to reveal the whole future for each person’s life. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses the patterns and cycles of heavenly bodies to determine when a person will be better or worse off for certain actions to take place. I have never been taught by one who has authority that the Lord uses animals and birth years to determine our personalities.

AussieOi wrote: “i could argue that "christianity" is a counterfeit of what christ taught.”
I don’t disagree, especially in light of what we know of the great apostasy.

AussieOi wrote: “withouth question there are elements we dont understand with regards to constellations and our personalities”
True

AussieOi wrote: “perhaps the middle ground is astronomy?”
I believe in seeking truth within the bounds the Lord has set; once someone goes outside these bounds only falsehoods are obtained. To get people to cross the Lord’s bounds Satan has chosen to preach lies laced with bits of truths and this causes much confusion. The light he offers is diffused and not bright. When people wander outside the Lord’s bounds they lose their sense of where they are going and end up wandering into strange paths such as astrology.

Throughout different periods of my life I have learned that “because of the simpleness of the way, or the easiness of it” living the gospel got to be mundane and I have wondered,”Is this it?” But my unexciting feelings and thoughts toward the gospel was just a warning that I was losing focus not an invitation to explore some “special knowledge” promised by the founder of lies. My mundane attitude was to me a signal that I am not fully converted yet and that I needed to regain a fresh view of the gospel and to endure to the end all of the days of my life, holding to the iron rod the whole way. My mundane attitude was evidence I was allowing falsehoods to enter my beliefs and I was becoming slothful and was not on the “watch”. I needed to have an attitude adjustment and repent of the lies I started to believe in. While I have never given much thought to astrology, I do know that the true Seers and Revelators do not need astrology to do Heavenly Father’s work and are completely at peace concerning their path back to Him. That is good enough for me.


That is not entirely true. Luciferians believe that the war in heaven was a literal war that all of humanity took part in before earth life. In essence they fully acknowledge the truth of the council in heaven.

No christians I have ever heard of beside LDS believe this.

Luciferianism is evil therefore beyond the bounds the Lord has set. Yet for the multitude of wicked twisted lies there is at least one truth they do not refute.

The fact that they connect it with a large amount of lies does not mean it suddenly doesn't count.

End conclusion bro. Truth is truth no matter where it is found, and it can be found outside of the bounds the lord has set as acceptable because over the span of time humans have taken it with them into various apostate systems.

The path to greater truth then becomes a great process of sifting truth from lies.

isaacs2066
captain of 100
Posts: 380

Re: Astrology of India

Post by isaacs2066 »

The original constellations were revealed to the Wild man Enoch and the meanings were explained.

They all taught of christ, as well as helping humans know when to harvest, plant, ect.

Also. It has been demonstrated that complex mathematical formulas can predict future events with very striking success.

The planets, stars, ect. Move based on regular mathematical patterns.

Therefore it might be possible with understanding to use the movements of celestial bodies to predict the future with success.

Not the same as the word of God, but then again neither is most of what our church leaders say on any given day...

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Magus
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Re: Astrology of India

Post by Magus »

I'm not convinced that astrology is of the devil, nor am I convinced that astrology as it is today is erroneous in any degree. I am of course open to the possibility that there are errors, but I'm just saying I haven't seen much of an argument to convince me that there are in fact errors. And by the way, my studying of astrology has shed light on some previous unknown and personal truths in some very shockingly accurate ways.

I find it really silly that people quote general authorities at one time or another condemning astrology and then say that it's the word of the Lord that astrology is bad - but then forget all about how many of those same general authorities taught us blacks couldn't have the priesthood because of the curse of Ham, or because they were less valiant in heaven or something else - all things that the Church now says were wrong ideas. Many general authorities have expressed their opinions on things at various times as if they were doctrine. Joseph Fielding Smith, for example, was extremely opinionated and had many ideas about evolution and the nature and origin of mankind that were opposite what James E. Talmage personally believed, yet Joseph Fielding Smith's teachings are compiled into the three-volumed "Doctrines of Salvation" and touted about as if they are in fact doctrine. Same thing goes for Bruce R. McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine," much there that he calls doctrine that is not in fact doctrine, but his own personal take on doctrine or own viewpoints.

It's also quite silly considering that there's considerable evidence that from Joseph Smith at least through the times of Wilford Woodruff, the prophets of the Church seemed to know a fair bit about astrology and certain magical things, such as magic squares, etc. When one starts studying the history of these things, you start to see the possiblity open up that ancient magic may have been used by Solomon, Moses, etc., and that there are secrets to it.

It also starts to put all those bible verses in context speaking against sorcery, witchcraft, divination and the like. Consider that the Church has always had divination - your patriarchal blessing is a form of divination. The urim and thummim were forms of divination. All of these things could theoretically be called "magic." When you start getting into what magic actually is, it loses its stigma as something, by definition, utterly different in nature from anything else we do in the Church. The only question really is what is the source of the power? The sorcery, witchcraft and divination spoken of in the bible and book of mormon were all forms of occult power obtained from Satan and his allies. But that doesn't rule out another system in which power is obtained from God and/or his allies (which ultimately can just be said is "from God.")

The term "occult" is also horrendously slandered and misunderstood. All "occult" means is hidden. Our entire temple ceremony is occult.

Many of you repeat and parrot the words of general authorities like you have personally studied these matters and come to conclusions yourselves - but I don't think many, if any of you, have.

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Torquemada
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Posts: 129

Re: Astrology of India

Post by Torquemada »

Well, most any ER worker can tell that the busiest time is when the moon is full. If the stars do affect me, my luck or behavior, how do I get my control back? Am I responsible for my behavior if I turn into a werewolf?

My astrological reading for today wisely tells me not to nap on any railroad tracks for the rest of the week.

Jokes aside, I'm agnostic on this issue. The moon has power over the vast oceans and the full moon is when I'm horniest. So I concede there may be some effect, or perhaps there is some psychological pattern or track that full moons turn me on? (no pun intended)

As a young teen I found a book on astrology and found it fascinating. But I got my dates all messed up and thought I was a Taurus and the traits of Taurus fit me to a "T". I was quite convinced I had discovered the key of the ages, until my mother got the book and told me I'm a Libra. Well, what a bunch of Taurus. X(

Honestly I'm related to J. Golden Kimball. Too many of us LDS are so inbred.

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