what is the name of the holy Ghost

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minorityofone
captain of 100
Posts: 513

Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

freedomforall wrote:
minorityofone wrote:
Gideon wrote:Regarding the fullness of the gospel, Moroni said it was in the Book of Mormon:

He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
(Joseph Smith—History 1:34)

and, we still have that.

and, regarding the translated part of the plates, the Lord said:

8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;
9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;
(Doctrine and Covenants 20:8–9)

The fullness of the gospel has not been lost, neither has the fullness of the priesthood (I know that because I have seen it in action, more than once.)

My friend you better sit down because it seems you haven't heard this yet and it will come as a HUGE shock. The Book of Mormon that we have.... Is only about ONE THIRD of what is contained on the gold plates! So according to your statement, we probably have about one third of the fulness of the gospel (contained in the Book of Mormon). I hope you didn't pass out and die of a heart attack with that huge announcement I know it is mind blowing:)
Also according to the Book of Mormon the "greater things" are contained in the part of the plates we don't have.
Not to worry. We have enough to allow our salvation in the Celestial kingdom to get us there. If the Lord didn't think so, we'd have all of it. Don't think for one moment God would withhold saving teachings to those seeking exaltation. He says we have the fulness of the gospel so why refute it? Remember his words "it is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." No need to concern about what we don't have, but to live what we do have, and that is "all we can do." 2 Nephi 25:23

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

BTW, heart attacks are not necessary.

We are promised that if we study the word that we have we will be given more, but if we don't feast on what we have and then claim we need no more, that which we have will be taken away...so we better feast on what we have for now, and that will suffice.

Doctrine and Covenants 60:3
3 And it shall come to pass, if they are not more faithful unto me, it shall be taken away, even that which they have.

Matthew 25:29
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

2 Nephi 28:30
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

Does the shock value in your post mean that you are in disagreement, or is there an ulterior motive?
Alright let's think about this logically and use the words of the Book of Mormon that we both know to be true. In ether it clearly states that when people will finally exercise the same faith that the brother of Jared did they would have the same revelations given and we would be blessed with the sealed portion.
Would you say that any less faith than the brother of Jared exhibited could ever be enough faith for exaltation? Charity is said to be the great gift that heirs of the celestial kingdom need and will be given and yet moroni lamented that the people of our time would lack the gift. Jesus has never said that the fulness of the gospel has been on the earth since the apostasy. We have been given the preparatory gospel and joseph smith never received or taught the fulness. No one has obtained exaltation since the apostasy and all those who were faithful will come back to the earth to receive their redemption either in the fulness of times or during the millenium. But alas you won't care to even consider this because you trust that Jesus said something that he never said because it is written in a book that Jesus has never told anyone is true either. Utter bondage is what it is.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by freedomforall »

minorityofone wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Gideon wrote:Regarding the fullness of the gospel, Moroni said it was in the Book of Mormon:

He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
(Joseph Smith—History 1:34)

and, we still have that.

and, regarding the translated part of the plates, the Lord said:

8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;
9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;
(Doctrine and Covenants 20:8–9)

The fullness of the gospel has not been lost, neither has the fullness of the priesthood (I know that because I have seen it in action, more than once.)
Not to worry. We have enough to allow our salvation in the Celestial kingdom to get us there. If the Lord didn't think so, we'd have all of it. Don't think for one moment God would withhold saving teachings to those seeking exaltation. He says we have the fulness of the gospel so why refute it? Remember his words "it is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." No need to concern about what we don't have, but to live what we do have, and that is "all we can do." 2 Nephi 25:23

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

BTW, heart attacks are not necessary.

We are promised that if we study the word that we have we will be given more, but if we don't feast on what we have and then claim we need no more, that which we have will be taken away...so we better feast on what we have for now, and that will suffice.

Doctrine and Covenants 60:3
3 And it shall come to pass, if they are not more faithful unto me, it shall be taken away, even that which they have.

Matthew 25:29
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

2 Nephi 28:30
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

Does the shock value in your post mean that you are in disagreement, or is there an ulterior motive?
Alright let's think about this logically and use the words of the Book of Mormon that we both know to be true. In ether it clearly states that when people will finally exercise the same faith that the brother of Jared did they would have the same revelations given and we would be blessed with the sealed portion.
Would you say that any less faith than the brother of Jared exhibited could ever be enough faith for exaltation? Absolutely, no doubt whatsoever. It's called hope for a better world, to be raised unto eternal life through faithfulness and repentance. Charity is said to be the great gift that heirs of the celestial kingdom need and will be given and yet moroni lamented that the people of our time would lack the gift. Lacking the gift in no way says the gift is not ours for the asking. Jesus has never said that the fulness of the gospel has been on the earth since the apostasy. Oh! Read this:

Doctrine and Covenants 27:5
5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim;


We have been given the preparatory gospel and joseph smith never received or taught the fulness. The Book of Mormon says otherwise. No one has obtained exaltation since the apostasy and all those who were faithful will come back to the earth to receive their redemption either in the fulness of times or during the millenium. But alas you won't care to even consider this because you trust that Jesus said something that he never said because it is written in a book that Jesus has never told anyone is true either. Utter bondage is what it is. Read these: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/search?l ... +my+gospel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The fulness of the gospel is here and flourishing.

minorityofone
captain of 100
Posts: 513

Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

Freedomforall

You insist on quoting a book that the Holy Ghost has never told you is true. The Holy Ghost has never told anyone the doctrine and covenants is true and the Book of Mormon only teaches that the fulness of the gospel is contained in the records that the Nephites kept. We only have a small portion of those records.
You say people can gain exaltation with less faith than the brother of Jared had and yet it was when he exhibited such faith that The Lord told him he was redeemed. I thought God was no respector of persons and would not require one man or woman to have more faith to gain redemption than another. You think differently? Of course we can and ought to ask for gifts. The same held true in the dark ages but that doesn't mean it was immediately forthcoming does it? I have pointed out doctrines taught in the doctrine and covenants that very plainly contradicted doctrines taught in the Book of Mormon and not one person even attempted to say otherwise because it is so plain. People insist on believing joseph smith above the prophets in the Book of Mormon because they idolize him. It is as plain as day.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by freedomforall »

minorityofone wrote:Freedomforall

You insist on quoting a book that the Holy Ghost has never told you is true. The Holy Ghost has never told anyone the doctrine and covenants is true and the Book of Mormon only teaches that the fulness of the gospel is contained in the records that the Nephites kept. We only have a small portion of those records.
You say people can gain exaltation with less faith than the brother of Jared had and yet it was when he exhibited such faith that The Lord told him he was redeemed. I thought God was no respector of persons and would not require one man or woman to have more faith to gain redemption than another. You think differently? Of course we can and ought to ask for gifts. The same held true in the dark ages but that doesn't mean it was immediately forthcoming does it? I have pointed out doctrines taught in the doctrine and covenants that very plainly contradicted doctrines taught in the Book of Mormon and not one person even attempted to say otherwise because it is so plain. People insist on believing joseph smith above the prophets in the Book of Mormon because they idolize him. It is as plain as day.
Do you read the whole panoply of scripture or only bits and pieces, because what you state here is not wholly true. Do I have to post dozens of scriptures proving you in error?
You know what? Believe what you will but know that the wheels are only spinning in the mud.
Sounds to me like your saying that unless a person gains as much faith as the brother of Jarod, he/she has no hope for eternal salvation. Scriptures teach otherwise. We are encouraged to acquire great faith, this is true, but the weakest among us trying their best to follow Christ will make it into God's kingdom. No two persons are exactly alike, but a willing mind and a sincere heart goes a long way. The goal is exaltation. Look at it as a finish line in a race. Those who run across the finish line, those who walk across it and those who crawl across it will all get the same prize. This is the good news of the gospel. The goal is to live with Father, not how fast we get there. There are no short cuts, no alternate paths, just dedication and commitment with a sincere heart and hungering and thirsting after righteousness. These things, my friend, are in the scriptures if one takes the time to find them.

Look up hope and what we are to hope for.
Look up taking up one's cross and following Christ.
Look up feasting on the word, the iron rod.
Look up all the required attributes of Godliness.
Look of what the need of virtue is.
Look up what it means to be raised on the morning of the first resurrection.
Look up what it means to be holy, without spot.
Look up what it means to have a broken heart and contrite spirit.
Look up what it means to be "one" with Christ.
Read about Nephi and how he lamented over sins that easily beset him, yet he was exalted because he put his trust in Christ despite his sins. He put his whole soul into being Christlike...and this is what makes the difference.
And much more.

Then tell us that none of this matters, and that faith alone will save you.

minorityofone
captain of 100
Posts: 513

Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

freedomforall wrote:
minorityofone wrote:Freedomforall

You insist on quoting a book that the Holy Ghost has never told you is true. The Holy Ghost has never told anyone the doctrine and covenants is true and the Book of Mormon only teaches that the fulness of the gospel is contained in the records that the Nephites kept. We only have a small portion of those records.
You say people can gain exaltation with less faith than the brother of Jared had and yet it was when he exhibited such faith that The Lord told him he was redeemed. I thought God was no respector of persons and would not require one man or woman to have more faith to gain redemption than another. You think differently? Of course we can and ought to ask for gifts. The same held true in the dark ages but that doesn't mean it was immediately forthcoming does it? I have pointed out doctrines taught in the doctrine and covenants that very plainly contradicted doctrines taught in the Book of Mormon and not one person even attempted to say otherwise because it is so plain. People insist on believing joseph smith above the prophets in the Book of Mormon because they idolize him. It is as plain as day.
Do you read the whole panoply of scripture or only bits and pieces, because what you state here is not wholly true. Do I have to post dozens of scriptures proving you in error? There is not a way you can prove what I said to be false and I have not read all the scriptures yet because there is much that hasn't been translated. I seek truth in many scriptures that are available though.
You know what? Believe what you will but know that the wheels are only spinning in the mud.
Sounds to me like your saying that unless a person gains as much faith as the brother of Jarod, he/she has no hope for eternal salvation. Yes! That is exactly what I am saying!Scriptures teach otherwise. We are encouraged to acquire great faith, this is true, but the weakest among us trying their best to follow Christ will make it into God's kingdom. No two persons are exactly alike, but a willing mind and a sincere heart goes a long way. The goal is exaltation. Look at it as a finish line in a race. Those who run across the finish line, those who walk across it and those who crawl across it will all get the same prize. This is the good news of the gospel. The goal is to live with Father, not how fast we get there. There are no short cuts, no alternate paths, just dedication and commitment with a sincere heart and hungering and thirsting after righteousness. These things, my friend, are in the scriptures if one takes the time to find them.

Look up hope and what we are to hope for. We cannot have hope for something that is not true and truth comes by way of revelation. When God has told a person they will be exalted, that is when they have a sure anchor of hope for exaltation.
Look up taking up one's cross and following Christ. We cannot follow Christ without faith. Faith brings revelation which allows us to hear the Lords voice and follow
Look up feasting on the word, the iron rod. The iron rod is the literal word of God given to us as individuals. Nothing more or less.
Look up all the required attributes of Godliness. Faith hope and charity cover them all
Look of what the need of virtue is. Virtue comes by way of faith and revelation
Look up what it means to be raised on the morning of the first resurrection.
Look up what it means to be holy, without spot. This means we have been transfigured and physically seen Christ
Look up what it means to have a broken heart and contrite spirit.
Look up what it means to be "one" with Christ. This also means transfiguration and literally receiving the name of Christ
Read about Nephi and how he lamented over sins that easily beset him, yet he was exalted because he put his trust in Christ despite his sins. He put his whole soul into being Christlike...and this is what makes the difference.
And much more.
Nephi during this prayer was praying to have the change I referenced above come upon his body so he could become holy, without spot and receive the robe of righteousness. 2 Nephi 4 is beautiful. Thank you for helping to give evidence to what I was saying with all of these topics
Then tell us that none of this matters, and that faith alone will save you.
.

Faith alone will give us the power to do the works of God and be obedient to commandments. As the bible says anything without faith is sin. It also states that no man can please God without faith. Faith is the only way we can be exalted. Faith brings every other virtue and attribute of godliness. No other attribute of godliness can be obtained without faith. All things I stated above have been stated by the voice of God. If we interpret scriptures differently that is fine but i hope you would agree that no one ought to interpret scriptures privately or based off of what other people have said or written. The only correct interpretation can come from the Holy Ghost by revelation. God bless

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by freedomforall »

minorityofone wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
minorityofone wrote:Freedomforall

You insist on quoting a book that the Holy Ghost has never told you is true. The Holy Ghost has never told anyone the doctrine and covenants is true and the Book of Mormon only teaches that the fulness of the gospel is contained in the records that the Nephites kept. We only have a small portion of those records.
You say people can gain exaltation with less faith than the brother of Jared had and yet it was when he exhibited such faith that The Lord told him he was redeemed. I thought God was no respector of persons and would not require one man or woman to have more faith to gain redemption than another. You think differently? Of course we can and ought to ask for gifts. The same held true in the dark ages but that doesn't mean it was immediately forthcoming does it? I have pointed out doctrines taught in the doctrine and covenants that very plainly contradicted doctrines taught in the Book of Mormon and not one person even attempted to say otherwise because it is so plain. People insist on believing joseph smith above the prophets in the Book of Mormon because they idolize him. It is as plain as day.
Do you read the whole panoply of scripture or only bits and pieces, because what you state here is not wholly true. Do I have to post dozens of scriptures proving you in error? There is not a way you can prove what I said to be false and I have not read all the scriptures yet because there is much that hasn't been translated. I seek truth in many scriptures that are available though.
You know what? Believe what you will but know that the wheels are only spinning in the mud.
Sounds to me like your saying that unless a person gains as much faith as the brother of Jarod, he/she has no hope for eternal salvation. Yes! That is exactly what I am saying!Scriptures teach otherwise. We are encouraged to acquire great faith, this is true, but the weakest among us trying their best to follow Christ will make it into God's kingdom. No two persons are exactly alike, but a willing mind and a sincere heart goes a long way. The goal is exaltation. Look at it as a finish line in a race. Those who run across the finish line, those who walk across it and those who crawl across it will all get the same prize. This is the good news of the gospel. The goal is to live with Father, not how fast we get there. There are no short cuts, no alternate paths, just dedication and commitment with a sincere heart and hungering and thirsting after righteousness. These things, my friend, are in the scriptures if one takes the time to find them.

Look up hope and what we are to hope for. We cannot have hope for something that is not true and truth comes by way of revelation. When God has told a person they will be exalted, that is when they have a sure anchor of hope for exaltation.
Look up taking up one's cross and following Christ. We cannot follow Christ without faith. Faith brings revelation which allows us to hear the Lords voice and follow
Look up feasting on the word, the iron rod. The iron rod is the literal word of God given to us as individuals. Nothing more or less.
Look up all the required attributes of Godliness. Faith hope and charity cover them all
Look of what the need of virtue is. Virtue comes by way of faith and revelation But what is the need?
Look up what it means to be raised on the morning of the first resurrection. You didn't look these up, did you?
Look up what it means to be holy, without spot. This means we have been transfigured and physically seen Christ Not so, read Moroni 10:33
Look up what it means to have a broken heart and contrite spirit. You didn't look these up, did you?
Look up what it means to be "one" with Christ. This also means transfiguration and literally receiving the name of Christ But, what does it mean to be one with Christ?
Read about Nephi and how he lamented over sins that easily beset him, yet he was exalted because he put his trust in Christ despite his sins. He put his whole soul into being Christlike...and this is what makes the difference.
And much more.
Nephi during this prayer was praying to have the change I referenced above come upon his body so he could become holy, without spot and receive the robe of righteousness. 2 Nephi 4 is beautiful. Thank you for helping to give evidence to what I was saying with all of these topics No need to thank me hastily, because I disagree with a lot of your interpretations. Nephi was already holy being a prophet of God. He was talking to himself and calming himself down because of the enemies of his soul hounding him all the time.
Then tell us that none of this matters, and that faith alone will save you.
.

Faith alone will give us the power to do the works of God and be obedient to commandments. As the bible says anything without faith is sin. It also states that no man can please God without faith. Faith is the only way we can be exalted. Faith brings every other virtue and attribute of godliness. No other attribute of godliness can be obtained without faith. All things I stated above have been stated by the voice of God. If we interpret scriptures differently that is fine but i hope you would agree that no one ought to interpret scriptures privately or based off of what other people have said or written. The true meaning of scripture is spiritually discerned, but faith without works is dead. The only correct interpretation can come from the Holy Ghost by revelation. God bless


Nephi, a prophet, laments over sins that easily besets him, and enemies to his soul:

16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.
17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.
18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.
19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.
20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.
21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.
23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time.
24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.
25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.
26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath visited men in so much mercy, why should my heart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions?
27 And why should I yield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to temptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my peace and afflict my soul? Why am I angry because of mine enemy?
28 Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul.
29 Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions.
30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

And here is where his prayer begins

31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin?
32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!
33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy.
34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

Now he exclaims:

35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen.

minorityofone
captain of 100
Posts: 513

Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

Freedom for all

I appreciate your dialogue and that we can try to understand each other. First of all "faith without works is dead" to me means faith will always produce works. "Works without faith are dead" is also a true principle but let's get back to our initial disagreement over what one must experience to be exalted... I thought the answers to your other topics listed could be found int what how I already responded and that is why I did not respond to them.

Nephi, a prophet, laments over sins that easily besets him, and enemies to his soul:

16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.
17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.
18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.
19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.
20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.
21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.

This was when the Spirit of The Lord rested upon him at the time he shocked his brothers and he knew that his flesh could be redeemed from the fall if he received a fulness of the Spirit of The Lord. I believe it was in 1Nephi 17

22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.
23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time.
24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.
25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.
26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath visited men in so much mercy, why should my heart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions?
27 And why should I yield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to temptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my peace and afflict my soul? Why am I angry because of mine enemy?

Neophi is longing for redemption and an escape from sin which can only come from receiving the Spirit of The Lord and receiving the new robes of righteousness that he mentions later in his prayer. Notice he asked why his flesh should waste away! If he finds redemption it won't have to yield to corruption and sin anymore.
28 Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul.
29 Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions.
30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

And here is where his prayer begins

31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin?

Ok so he prays for something he has not received yet and that is redemption! Right there plain as day. In alma 13 it says those who are made holy cannot look upon sin save with abhorrence. Nephi in his one words had not reached that stature yet! He says it right there!

32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!
33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy.
34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

Now he exclaims:

35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen.

Yes he is asking for the exact same experience that the brother of Jared had and nephi had not yet received. He is giving us a pattern that has not been restored for ages. Now to the other scripture you referenced...

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

You again are quoting scriptures that only aid what I have said from the beginning. To become holy literally means to be perfected. Your body is redeemed and you will no longer sin. This is taught plainly all over the scriptures but the LDS mind is brainwashed into thinking that holiness still equals sinning and that Jesus was only speaking figuratively when he commanded us to be perfect. 1 John was just fine before joseph smith started meddling with it where it teaches the same thing. Entering gods rest means being transfigured/translated where sin can no longer touch us. The devil (like nephi was praying for) will no longer have any power over us. This literally was happening and what the high priests of God have always taught. I have written a lot about it on latter day commentary and it becomes very plain to those willing to read the scriptures like a child without the philosophies of men being pounded into us from the pulpit week after week.

EvenTheLeastSaint
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by EvenTheLeastSaint »

Nate, I marvel at your wisdom my friend. Thank you.

freedomforall
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by freedomforall »

minorityofone wrote:Freedom for all

I appreciate your dialogue and that we can try to understand each other. First of all "faith without works is dead" to me means faith will always produce works. "Works without faith are dead" is also a true principle but let's get back to our initial disagreement over what one must experience to be exalted... I thought the answers to your other topics listed could be found int what how I already responded and that is why I did not respond to them.

Nephi, a prophet, laments over sins that easily besets him, and enemies to his soul:

16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.
17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.
18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.
19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.
20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.
21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.

This was when the Spirit of The Lord rested upon him at the time he shocked his brothers and he knew that his flesh could be redeemed from the fall if he received a fulness of the Spirit of The Lord. I believe it was in 1Nephi 17

22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.
23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time.
24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.
25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.
26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath visited men in so much mercy, why should my heart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions?
27 And why should I yield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to temptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my peace and afflict my soul? Why am I angry because of mine enemy?

Neophi is longing for redemption and an escape from sin which can only come from receiving the Spirit of The Lord and receiving the new robes of righteousness that he mentions later in his prayer. Notice he asked why his flesh should waste away! If he finds redemption it won't have to yield to corruption and sin anymore.
28 Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul.
29 Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions.
30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

And here is where his prayer begins

31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin?

Ok so he prays for something he has not received yet and that is redemption! Right there plain as day. In alma 13 it says those who are made holy cannot look upon sin save with abhorrence. Nephi in his one words had not reached that stature yet! He says it right there!

32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!
33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy.
34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

Now he exclaims:

35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen.

Yes he is asking for the exact same experience that the brother of Jared had and nephi had not yet received. He is giving us a pattern that has not been restored for ages. Now to the other scripture you referenced...

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

You again are quoting scriptures that only aid what I have said from the beginning. To become holy literally means to be perfected. Your body is redeemed and you will no longer sin. This is taught plainly all over the scriptures but the LDS mind is brainwashed into thinking that holiness still equals sinning and that Jesus was only speaking figuratively when he commanded us to be perfect. 1 John was just fine before joseph smith started meddling with it where it teaches the same thing. Entering gods rest means being transfigured/translated where sin can no longer touch us. The devil (like nephi was praying for) will no longer have any power over us. This literally was happening and what the high priests of God have always taught. I have written a lot about it on latter day commentary and it becomes very plain to those willing to read the scriptures like a child without the philosophies of men being pounded into us from the pulpit week after week.
Okay!

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Gideon
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by Gideon »

minorityofone wrote:Freedomforall

The Holy Ghost has never told anyone the doctrine and covenants is true
When I first read it, I was filled with the Holy Spirit. The book almost glowed. I never had a need to ask if it was true, because I already knew from the powerful witness from the Holy Ghost.

minorityofone
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

Gideon wrote:
minorityofone wrote:Freedomforall

The Holy Ghost has never told anyone the doctrine and covenants is true
When I first read it, I was filled with the Holy Spirit. The book almost glowed. I never had a need to ask if it was true, because I already knew from the powerful witness from the Holy Ghost.
I have been filled with the Spirit countless times reading the doctrine and covenants too! Many many times. I have been filled with the spirit reading the apocrypha and parts of the nag hammadi. I have been filled with the Spirit of the Tao reading the Tao te Ching. Of all of these I have learned that the doctrine and covenants has less of a truth to error ratio than any of the rest of them. I agree it does not behoove us to ask about books being true, but it does behoove us to realize the parts of different "scripture" that have not been confirmed by the Holy Ghost. Because I am absolutely sure you were not filled with the Holy Ghost reading every word of the doctrine and covenants. It couldn't happen because of the parts that are not of God. Some parts of it have been confirmed to precisely zero people. If so they would have to admit parts of the Book of Mormon are false that contradict the doctrine and covenants.

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Gideon
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by Gideon »

I have yet to encounter anything in the the Doctrine and Covenants that is not of God.

You cannot be absolutely sure of what the Holy Ghost has witnessed to me.

Since you reject the FP and the 12, and since you are no longer a member of the LDS church, why are you so involved on this forum? What is your goal?

Some of your posts have caused me to think that you view yourself as one having authority from God that all of us should recognize and accept without question. If you were quoting scripture, that would be one thing, but you quote your own revelations as if they were infallible.

How do you see yourself?

minorityofone
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

I view myself as a child of God and believe it is a sin to place someone above, or below me in spiritual authority unless they are God whom I worship. Gideon your revelations are just as valid as joseph smiths or mother Theresa's (assuming you have any)
These prophets people idolize are just men and women and can be wrong and misunderstand revelation and write crap just as much as you or I can. If you truly have read my writing you would know that I don't want anyone to accept anything I say unless the Holy Ghost witnesses it to them. If the Holy Ghost witnesses something contrary to a revelation I claim, follow the Holy Ghost. I believe the Holy Ghost to be infallible and that is where I have placed my trust and I don't mind sharing what I have learned by the Holy Ghost or claiming it to be from the Holy Ghost.
The reason I know that no one has had all of the doctrine and covenants confirmed to them is because I have been told by God that certain parts of it are false, and therefore I know the Holy Ghost could not confirm that they are true to others because that would make the Holy Ghost a liar. If you are convinced I am following a false spirit that is your determination. I will always follow the Holy Ghost though because it has always lead me to higher love, greater worship and greater understanding. I allow all others to do the same and respect it. My view of what prophets are would preclude me from ever wanting anyone to follow or believe me.
Prophets are not to be followed or trusted. My intent for being here is probably very similar to yours I would guess. I like to see others words so the spirit can witness new truth to me from other prophets experiences and revelations. It has happened quite a few times on this site. I could even list a handful of people that have written on this site and the spirit taught me from their writing but I won't do that:)

brrgilbert
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by brrgilbert »

Minorityofone, I love you . . . reading your postings reminds me of watching a young Shirley Temple movie wherein she digs in her heals. She was endearing and so are you. May you find what you are looking for. You are a child of God. In your searching please recognize that there are pieces of the grand puzzle, keys - if you would, that are had by all people based upon their perspectives and spiritual gifts, that when pieced together will create a grand tapestry upon which ALL should be allowed to see. When you get those "pieces," Minorityofone, please do me the pleasure, as well as all those who have contributed, by becoming a "Majority of One" so that all can see the beauty of the puzzle. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. You get to decide if the whole is a whole or a hole. Please choose wisely and consider every piece. God IS love.

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Gideon
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by Gideon »

minorityofone wrote: Prophets are not to be followed or trusted.
If the Israelites had always taken this attitude they never would have left Egypt. However, it didn't take long for them to become this way, and that resulted in the loss of the Melchizedek priesthood.

The people in Lehi's day seemed to feel the same way. They didn't trust or follow the prophets, and that led them to captivity in Babylon.

Many people felt the same way about Joseph Smith, which led to the church leaving the US and then, according to the pattern revealed in the Book of Mormon, there was the Civil War.

The Lord said the following:

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
(Matthew 23:37–39)

minorityofone
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

Why would somebody follow the words of the prophet if there was no spiritual confirmation from God that the words were true? That would just be idolatry. The Israelites followed a man and that is what kept them in their fallen condition you are right. If you pattern your life after them you will receive the same outcome. Those who followed the spirit broke off from the saints when evil practices were put into place. They made the right choice to stop following joseph smith. Laman and Lemuel followed lehi and ended where they ended while nephi didn't simply believe his father and followed God. Thank you for pointing these perfect examples out of what happens when one simply follows prophets verses those who follow God. Well put.

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Gideon
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by Gideon »

minorityofone wrote:Why would somebody follow the words of the prophet if there was no spiritual confirmation from God that the words were true? That would just be idolatry. The Israelites followed a man and that is what kept them in their fallen condition you are right. If you pattern your life after them you will receive the same outcome. Those who followed the spirit broke off from the saints when evil practices were put into place. They made the right choice to stop following joseph smith. Laman and Lemuel followed lehi and ended where they ended while nephi didn't simply believe his father and followed God. Thank you for pointing these perfect examples out of what happens when one simply follows prophets verses those who follow God. Well put.
If the Israelites had continued to follow Moses, they would have seen God, face to face, in the wilderness. When they refused, God took Moses and the Melchizedek priesthood away from them. Refusing to follow the prophet that God had called resulted in a great loss to them and to their children for hundreds of years.

The names of Joseph and Hyrum have been handed down as "gems for the sanctified". Those who followed Joseph accepted the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, became sanctified by following the directions in those books, and were admitted into the presence of God in this life. Like the Israelites, those who refused received less.

You seem to have things switched around in the Book of Mormon.

Nephi believed all the words of his father.

2 And the Spirit said unto me: Behold, what desirest thou?
3 And I said: I desire to behold the things which my father saw.
4 And the Spirit said unto me: Believest thou that thy father saw the tree of which he hath spoken?
5 And I said: Yea, thou knowest that I believe all the words of my father.
(1 Nephi 11:2–5)

Laman and Lemuel thought Lehi was hallucinating and did not believe the things he claimed to have seen:

11 Now this he spake because of the stiffneckedness of Laman and Lemuel; for behold they did murmur in many things against their father, because he was a visionary man, and had led them out of the land of Jerusalem, to leave the land of their inheritance, and their gold, and their silver, and their precious things, to perish in the wilderness. And this they said he had done because of the foolish imaginations of his heart.
12 And thus Laman and Lemuel, being the eldest, did murmur against their father. And they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them.
13 Neither did they believe that Jerusalem, that great city, could be destroyed according to the words of the prophets. And they were like unto the Jews who were at Jerusalem, who sought to take away the life of my father.
(1 Nephi 2:11–13)

Remember the prayer of Jesus Christ, referring to the 12 he said:

21 Father, I pray thee that thou wilt give the Holy Ghost unto all them that shall believe in their words.
22 Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them.
23 And now Father, I pray unto thee for them, and also for all those who shall believe on their words, that they may believe in me, that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we may be one.
(3 Nephi 19:21–23)

This prayer of Christ explains what it means to follow a prophet, it is no more than following the directions that we receive from God through that prophet. It doesn't imply any cult like worship (although some probably do this), nor does it imply that we examine their lives in detail so that we can follow their example in all things.

We are to emulate Christ. He invited all of us to follow him, and no one else. His prophets help us to follow Christ, not by getting between us and Him, but by helping us to see the way, by encouraging us, by praying for us, and by making a burnt offering of their lives in our service.

The correct attitude towards prophets was taught by Christ when he said:

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
(Matthew 23:37–39)

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Gideon
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by Gideon »

minorityofone wrote:
Gideon wrote:Regarding the fullness of the gospel, Moroni said it was in the Book of Mormon:

He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
(Joseph Smith—History 1:34)

and, we still have that.

and, regarding the translated part of the plates, the Lord said:

8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;
9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;
(Doctrine and Covenants 20:8–9)

The fullness of the gospel has not been lost, neither has the fullness of the priesthood (I know that because I have seen it in action, more than once.)

My friend you better sit down because it seems you haven't heard this yet and it will come as a HUGE shock. The Book of Mormon that we have.... Is only about ONE THIRD of what is contained on the gold plates! So according to your statement, we probably have about one third of the fulness of the gospel (contained in the Book of Mormon). I hope you didn't pass out and die of a heart attack with that huge announcement I know it is mind blowing:)
Also according to the Book of Mormon the "greater things" are contained in the part of the plates we don't have.

Let's discuss this one a little further.

The Lord said:

29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.
(Doctrine and Covenants 1:29)

8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;
9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;
(Doctrine and Covenants 20:8–9)

In other words, Joseph translated the Book of Mormon. The rest of the plates are something else. But what?

7 And behold the book shall be sealed; and in the book shall be a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof.
(2 Nephi 27:7)

4 Behold, I have written upon these plates the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.
5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.
6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.
(Ether 4:4–6)

So, the gold plates consist of two parts, 1. The Book of Mormon, and 2. The vision of the Brother of Jared.
The Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the Gospel.
The vision of the brother of Jared contains a revelation that goes from the beginning of the world to the end.

My heart is humming along just fine.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

minorityofone wrote:I view myself as a child of God and believe it is a sin to place someone above, or below me in spiritual authority unless they are God whom I worship. Gideon your revelations are just as valid as joseph smiths or mother Theresa's (assuming you have any)
These prophets people idolize are just men and women and can be wrong and misunderstand revelation and write crap just as much as you or I can. If you truly have read my writing you would know that I don't want anyone to accept anything I say unless the Holy Ghost witnesses it to them. If the Holy Ghost witnesses something contrary to a revelation I claim, follow the Holy Ghost. I believe the Holy Ghost to be infallible and that is where I have placed my trust and I don't mind sharing what I have learned by the Holy Ghost or claiming it to be from the Holy Ghost.
The reason I know that no one has had all of the doctrine and covenants confirmed to them is because I have been told by God that certain parts of it are false, and therefore I know the Holy Ghost could not confirm that they are true to others because that would make the Holy Ghost a liar. If you are convinced I am following a false spirit that is your determination. I will always follow the Holy Ghost though because it has always lead me to higher love, greater worship and greater understanding. I allow all others to do the same and respect it. My view of what prophets are would preclude me from ever wanting anyone to follow or believe me.
Prophets are not to be followed or trusted. My intent for being here is probably very similar to yours I would guess. I like to see others words so the spirit can witness new truth to me from other prophets experiences and revelations. It has happened quite a few times on this site. I could even list a handful of people that have written on this site and the spirit taught me from their writing but I won't do that:)
I just popped in for a few minutes...
I am having a hard time understanding you here.

You say ' Prophets are not to be followed or trusted', and then you say, you 'believe it is a sin to place someone above, or below me [you] in spiritual authority unless they are God whom I [you] worship'. And finally you also say, ' I believe the Holy Ghost to be infallible'.

To start with you except your witness that not everything in the D&C is true and therefore everyone must receive the same thing as you. Well Brother, JS had a witness of everything He wrote and publish, so lets not try to put it off on the Holy Ghost and say he lied or is a liar. It is ALWAY men who misunderstand the spirit, misinterpret things given them and usually add or embellish or even overlook or forget things given them. If I had to chose between you and JS words, it is not that he claimed to be a Prophet, or that he was the head of the Church in his day... It is he was a Lord's Anointed, not just a Prophet. He was and is one of the archangels of this creation, and many times spiritually older in comparison than almost all in this creation (save a few like, Adam, the Messiah, Noah, Moses. and others who were also anointed of G_d.

So, if you want people to choose between Joseph Smith's words and your words... I would not waste your money betting on who the HG is going to witness to the majority here! And if the HG did, than you could not receive something contrary to that as you know that the HG is infallible! Right?!?!

Shalom

minorityofone
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

There are a lot of comments and strange things said so I won't take the time to hit them all because I don't care to. I will say that nephi believed the words of his father because the spirit confirmed them to him. The beautiful thing is that nephi would have followed the spirit if the spirit would have told him his father was full of crap. Nephi made a connection with heaven and did not need lehi for his own exaltation although I am sure they learned with each other and prayed about each other's revelations.
Joseph smith is not one of the seven archangels that is just a silly tradition. He was a prophet but he was not a greater prophet than David whitmer, oliver cowdery, lyman wight, and many others. He used the leverage he had though very well.

As far as the comment that stated people have been sanctified and brought into the presence of God who have followed the doctrine and covenants. Please tell me who has stood in the PHYSICAL presence of Jesus Christ that is alive today. Who has been transfigured as the men and women of old? We know heber J grant said that he knew of no man that had seen Jesus Christ since the time of joseph smith.
David whitmer saw visions of Christ before his death. He was not a believer in the doctrine and covenants or the abominable practice of polygamy, but even the great prophet david whitmer did not see Jesus in the flesh, nor did joseph smith. They saw Him in vision, which has happened to thousands of people in many religions. Have we not read of the countless visions from many many people of Christ. There are plenty on this forum who have no doubt had visions of Jesus and the Father. This is not redemption.

So please if you want to have a civil discussion I would love to. Tell me anyone from your heart, in your own words, why I should ever put my trust in a man, whose breath is in his nostrils, who is less than the dust of the earth, instead of putting trust solely in the Almighty God.

The beauty of the plan is that no man or woman can teach us anything. They can lecture, share, testify, shout, debate, persuade, and so on, but until the Holy Ghost testifies of a truth, we cannot know that particular truth to be true. I don't care what book it is written in or what mouth it comes out of, or how many hands have been raised to sustain it, we do not know a thing, concerning a thing, until the Holy Ghost has taught it to us.

So if you cannot discern what it means that a prophet is not to be followed, or that a prophet is not something to place our trust in, then there is something wrong with your thinking. Did joseph smith ever teach falsehoods? He admittedly did! So if he could admit he didn't always get it right then why do so many people use his words to demonstrate "truth?" Why do you not open yourselves up to the idea that there just might be some issues with the doctrine and covenants? Is it too earth shattering for you? My testimony is based on Christ, so if Christ told me that there was a bunch of crap being taught in a religion that I was a part of, it wouldn't phase me, because who cares?! We strive to follow Jesus, and no man or woman can ever bring us to Jesus. Only Jesus can.
Following moses could get no one into the presence of Jesus. Moses continually was brought to sorrow because of people wanting to follow him! They didn't want to follow God, they wanted to follow moses! They proved it. Are you kidding by saying if they would have followed moses they would have come into the presence of God? Follow God. If you were placed on an island with no book or prophet to follow, you could pray and talk to God and He could bring you into His presence. You don't need other men's words or writings to do that. We must become like Adam and Eve in the wilderness and learn line upon line exactly like they did. No other mortal can bring us one inch closer to God. Mortals don't have the power to do it, and if God ever uses men or women as vessels for His power, and then people give credit to those humans for the power God used, the credit has been misplaced, and idolatry has occurred. It is so simple but like I said these are only words from a human and the words I write are not to be trusted. Follow the Spirit. If you believe the Spirit leads you to believe all of joseph smiths teachings, please follow the spirit. I encourage you and applaude you for seeking to follow the spirit. Do not let my Shirley temple antics dissuade you:)

brrgilbert
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by brrgilbert »

Was Jesus a Prophet? Was Jesus the Son of man? Was Jesus mortal? Was Jesus the Son of God? Was Jesus a Child of God, like you? Do you put your trust, as in faith, in Jesus as a Prophet? Do you put your trust, as in faith, in Jesus as the Son of Man? Do you put your trust in Jesus as a mortal? Do you put your trust in Jesus as the Son of God? Do you trust yourself as a child of God? Do you have a testimony of Jesus by the power of the Holy Ghost? Do you recognize that if you trust yourself and have a testimony of Jesus through the power of the Holy Ghost, that you are a prophet? How is it that a person can trust themselves and not trust themselves? Isn't that considered self-doubt? Does a person who doubts themselves stand upon a firm foundation? "Shirley" Temples are built upon strong foundations and heels are only dug into sand.

MinorityofOne, I love you and I want to join you in your sandbox - with permission of course. ;) I doubt myself and am in need of more faith. I know that Jesus is the Christ through a witness and by the power of the Holy Ghost, but because of my mortality, history, and weaknesses, I find it difficult to believe in myself. I want to get it right and do the right things . . . not for my sake, but for Heavenly Father's. I don't want to fail Him. I know that I can't do it by myself.

freedomforall
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by freedomforall »

minorityofone wrote:There are a lot of comments and strange things said so I won't take the time to hit them all because I don't care to. I will say that nephi believed the words of his father because the spirit confirmed them to him. The beautiful thing is that nephi would have followed the spirit if the spirit would have told him his father was full of crap. Nephi made a connection with heaven and did not need lehi for his own exaltation although I am sure they learned with each other and prayed about each other's revelations.
Joseph smith is not one of the seven archangels that is just a silly tradition. He was a prophet but he was not a greater prophet than David whitmer, oliver cowdery, lyman wight, and many others. He used the leverage he had though very well.

As far as the comment that stated people have been sanctified and brought into the presence of God who have followed the doctrine and covenants. Please tell me who has stood in the PHYSICAL presence of Jesus Christ that is alive today. Who has been transfigured as the men and women of old? We know heber J grant said that he knew of no man that had seen Jesus Christ since the time of joseph smith.
David whitmer saw visions of Christ before his death. He was not a believer in the doctrine and covenants or the abominable practice of polygamy, but even the great prophet david whitmer did not see Jesus in the flesh, nor did joseph smith. They saw Him in vision, which has happened to thousands of people in many religions. Have we not read of the countless visions from many many people of Christ. There are plenty on this forum who have no doubt had visions of Jesus and the Father. This is not redemption.

So please if you want to have a civil discussion I would love to. Tell me anyone from your heart, in your own words, why I should ever put my trust in a man, whose breath is in his nostrils, who is less than the dust of the earth, instead of putting trust solely in the Almighty God.

The beauty of the plan is that no man or woman can teach us anything. They can lecture, share, testify, shout, debate, persuade, and so on, but until the Holy Ghost testifies of a truth, we cannot know that particular truth to be true. I don't care what book it is written in or what mouth it comes out of, or how many hands have been raised to sustain it, we do not know a thing, concerning a thing, until the Holy Ghost has taught it to us.

So if you cannot discern what it means that a prophet is not to be followed, or that a prophet is not something to place our trust in, then there is something wrong with your thinking. Did joseph smith ever teach falsehoods? He admittedly did! So if he could admit he didn't always get it right then why do so many people use his words to demonstrate "truth?" Why do you not open yourselves up to the idea that there just might be some issues with the doctrine and covenants? Is it too earth shattering for you? My testimony is based on Christ, so if Christ told me that there was a bunch of crap being taught in a religion that I was a part of, it wouldn't phase me, because who cares?! We strive to follow Jesus, and no man or woman can ever bring us to Jesus. Only Jesus can.
Following moses could get no one into the presence of Jesus. Moses continually was brought to sorrow because of people wanting to follow him! They didn't want to follow God, they wanted to follow moses! They proved it. Are you kidding by saying if they would have followed moses they would have come into the presence of God? Follow God. If you were placed on an island with no book or prophet to follow, you could pray and talk to God and He could bring you into His presence. You don't need other men's words or writings to do that. We must become like Adam and Eve in the wilderness and learn line upon line exactly like they did. No other mortal can bring us one inch closer to God. Mortals don't have the power to do it, and if God ever uses men or women as vessels for His power, and then people give credit to those humans for the power God used, the credit has been misplaced, and idolatry has occurred. It is so simple but like I said these are only words from a human and the words I write are not to be trusted. Follow the Spirit. If you believe the Spirit leads you to believe all of joseph smiths teachings, please follow the spirit. I encourage you and applaude you for seeking to follow the spirit. Do not let my Shirley temple antics dissuade you:)
Are you another Snufferite? The perception of scripture here is way off. Did you know that no scripture is of any private interpretation? So know this, people who put their trust in God would also put their trust in God's true prophets because God picks them to do his will. When you shun his prophets you are also shunning God.

2 Peter 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, until he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Ex. 18:15
15 And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to inquire of God:

Dan. 2:19
19 ¶Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.

2 Sam. 24:11
11 For when David was up in the morning, the word of the Lord came unto the prophet Gad, David’s seer, saying,

Isa. 42:9
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Mosiah 8:16 (16–18)
16 And Ammon said that a seer is a revelator and a prophet also; and a gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can; yet a man may have great power given him from God.
17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.
18 Thus God has provided a means that man, through faith, might work mighty miracles; therefore he becometh a great benefit to his fellow beings.

Acts 4:20
20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

So any notion that the following of prophets is wrong, stupid or unneeded is to deny God. He calls prophets and gives them the keys needed to perform his will. And they do become a benefit to man as stated. There is no reason whatsoever to follow such philosophy as presented even hinting that following prophets is ridiculous.

The fact is that we are not supposed to follow our own understanding. Read Prov 3:5,6

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart,
and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge Him,
and He shall direct thy paths.

Therefore, by paying heed to God's prophets and through prayer we can know truth and not have to travel by our own wisdom and precepts. And the need to tell people to thrust prophets away wouldn't happen.

And trust that God has prophets here for a reason and purpose.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

minorityofone wrote:Joseph smith is not one of the seven archangels that is just a silly tradition. He was a prophet but he was not a greater prophet than David whitmer, oliver cowdery, lyman wight, and many others. He used the leverage he had though very well.

First off JS is an Archangel, named Rugael! I have it by personal Revelation, as well as being witnessed dozen and dozen of times by the HG! It is not a silly tradition, for no one is claiming it except me! And the point I was making was... by your own silly statements, that we know nothing until the infallible HG makes something known we can no nothing. Clearly you know nothing about this!

As far as the comment that stated people have been sanctified and brought into the presence of God who have followed the doctrine and covenants. Please tell me who has stood in the PHYSICAL presence of Jesus Christ that is alive today. Who has been transfigured as the men and women of old? We know heber J grant said that he knew of no man that had seen Jesus Christ since the time of joseph smith.

I said nothing about the D&C Sanctifying or bring anyone into the presence of G_d. I said it was witnessed to by the HG to JS, and pointed out that you did not have the same witness. I warned you not to bet that people will believe you over JS. I pointed out that if the majority get the HG witness, and you do not... and the HG cannot lie, you had better get the same witness! For if not, then by your logic, with the HG unable to lie, you or everyone else is deceived. And something tells me (my spirit) that it will never be you who thinks so!

David whitmer saw visions of Christ before his death. He was not a believer in the doctrine and covenants or the abominable practice of polygamy, but even the great prophet david whitmer did not see Jesus in the flesh, nor did joseph smith. They saw Him in vision, which has happened to thousands of people in many religions. Have we not read of the countless visions from many many people of Christ. There are plenty on this forum who have no doubt had visions of Jesus and the Father. This is not redemption.

Now we come to the heart of the matter. I said JS was a Lord's Anointed! You say he was not. There is no record of him walking and talking with the Lord face to face. I have the witness of the HG that he was anointed. You do not. If the HG cannot lie, then who is listening to the HS here? You or me? The only different between me and a dead Prophet, is I can talk back to you in defense of the truth. When you point a finger of scorn to long dead men of G_d, accusing them of things, many times they never said, how wise you can look. JS never want people to worship or follow him. He wanted to teach the people correct principles and let them govern themselves. I see a world of a difference in what he taught and what you are teaching here. If you feel a warm burning in the bosom about doing anything whether is it clearly in harmony or not with the scriptures (teachings of prophets), your saying it is okay to just go for it!

So please if you want to have a civil discussion I would love to. Tell me anyone from your heart, in your own words, why I should ever put my trust in a man, whose breath is in his nostrils, who is less than the dust of the earth, instead of putting trust solely in the Almighty God.

I did and you did not hear one word of it. I will attempt this final time too... If I have seen the Son and heard his voice upon a matter and you have never seen or hear the Lord, and I was commanded to warn you... about something you are doing! You had better repent this silly doctrine and listen up! And if you think this does not make any sense, there are plenty of stories in the scriptures of men who were warned and did not listen, to their own folly. Noah warned people for a 120 years.

So, if the spirit does not witness to you that Noah was a real person, then you believe he never lived, right?!?!


The beauty of the plan is that no man or woman can teach us anything.

Now that statement is crap! The Messiah was a man, and if you will not let Him teach you, or even the lowly servant who first told you about Him or about the HG for that matter, you would not even know what anything was, food, clothing, fire, air, language, history, G_d or love!

They can lecture, share, testify, shout, debate, persuade, and so on, but until the Holy Ghost testifies of a truth, we cannot know that particular truth to be true.

You have to be Baptized to receive the HG... but how could the HG witnessing that you needed Baptism when no one is able to teach you what the HG is or that it even exists?

I don't care what book it is written in or what mouth it comes out of, or how many hands have been raised to sustain it, we do not know a thing, concerning a thing, until the Holy Ghost has taught it to us.

Your not teaching a doctrine that the blind are leading blind and we shall all fall into the ditch together. You are teaching a doctrine that we are all deaf, dumb, and blind, and no one is leading anyone, we are all aimlessly feeling around in ignorance and going no where! Your doctrine is one of complete confusion, and has all the air marking of a made up doctrine, that serves the adversary by thwarting the plan and causing others to stumble and fall!

So if you cannot discern what it means that a prophet is not to be followed, or that a prophet is not something to place our trust in, then there is something wrong with your thinking. Really? Did joseph smith ever teach falsehoods? He admittedly did! So if he could admit he didn't always get it right then why do so many people use his words to demonstrate "truth?" Why do you not open yourselves up to the idea that there just might be some issues with the doctrine and covenants?

I am saying the same to you Brother... At least JS admitted he made mistakes. I know I have!

Is it too earth shattering for you? My testimony is based on Christ, so if Christ told me that there was a bunch of crap being taught in a religion that I was a part of, it wouldn't phase me, because who cares?! We strive to follow Jesus, and no man or woman can ever bring us to Jesus. Only Jesus can.

If no man can teach you, how do you know that name?

Following moses could get no one into the presence of Jesus.

He could have if they had obeyed the word of the Lord through Moses to the people. That is what every Lord's Anointed has wanted for those whom he was called to administer too!

Moses continually was brought to sorrow because of people wanting to follow him! They didn't want to follow God, they wanted to follow moses! They proved it.

No they didn't, they wanted to do what they wanted to do! It was a choice to follow Moses rather than God that was the choice they made!

Are you kidding by saying if they would have followed moses they would have come into the presence of God? Follow God.

They did not know G_d just as you do not. Moses did and he wanted them to go and meet G_d. The people did not want to see G_d, they feared G_d.

If you were placed on an island with no book or prophet to follow, you could pray and talk to God and He could bring you into His presence. You don't need other men's words or writings to do that. We must become like Adam and Eve in the wilderness and learn line upon line exactly like they did.

You speak of a Archangel who would and did seek G_d. Most people would forget G_d and die in their sins! So just who is it that calls TRUE Prophets? Oh ya, it is G_D! He speaks through them to peoples who cannot hear him. Come on man, pull out your ear plugs and get a clue here before you die in your sins out of blind ignorance.

No other mortal can bring us one inch closer to God. Mortals don't have the power to do it, and if God ever uses men or women as vessels for His power, and then people give credit to those humans for the power God used, the credit has been misplaced, and idolatry has occurred. It is so simple but like I said these are only words from a human and the words I write are not to be trusted. Follow the Spirit. If you believe the Spirit leads you to believe all of joseph smiths teachings, please follow the spirit. I encourage you and applaude you for seeking to follow the spirit. Do not let my Shirley temple antics dissuade you:)

I cut all the unrelated comments out... My questions and answer are interlaced in your quote in blue!

fuddyduddyneighborly
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by fuddyduddyneighborly »

LOL.. :D

minorityofone
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Re: what is the name of the holy Ghost

Post by minorityofone »

Lol indeed

Kingdom of Zion. Has polygamy been commanded of God to anyone in this dispensation? Do you know it by the Holy Ghost?

Everyone else. I know Jesus is the Son of God by the Holy Ghost, no man or woman could give me that knowledge. Jesus was not just a man, He was God, but if He appeared to me, I would not believe even Him if the Holy Ghost didn't bear witness to every word. Fortunately I know that the Holy Ghost would indeed bear witness to every word He spoke, so there would be no question.

The Holy Ghost is a TANGIBLE power. It is not peaceful thoughts or feelings. It is glory that moves upon, enlightens, and weaves light into every particle of the body and spirit. It is unmistakable. People who just say it is an inner voice with no power are following their own spirit, or not recognizing the power.

I am not a snufferite. I disagree with him quite often and haven't read his lectures or books. But I do know he is as much of a prophet as anyone in the LDS church. Joseph smith was a prophet. He kinda botched it up though. He was ordained under the hands of John the Baptist to work under the spirit of Elias (aaronic function) but then went ahead and tried to give the high priesthood and do all sorts of other stuff he wasn't supposed to do.

Please come join me in my sandbox. It is quite nice just trusting God and His spirit. No need to trust fallen people here.

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