Need recommendations for battling energy healers

[SmallFarm]

O:-)

[Rand]

It is no secret that flowing electrons create a magnetic field, but that doesn't mean the human body has an energy system that can be manipulated by gliding a hand over it.

Gideon, what is static electricity? Can you elicit a shock by gliding your hands over metal after rubbing your feet on the carpet? Do we use bones stimulators to heal bone? Is it electricity or not that it uses to accelerate the healing? The human body is an electrical instrument. Is that the only type of energy that exists in the body? Does air have energy? Is it made of atoms? Do they have energy? Does food have energy? Is it made of atoms, which are made of energy? Certainly. So why are you so against the idea that these energy systems exist? Heavens, in the lectures on faith it says faith is mental energy.

Light has been shown to be transported in the human body along acupuncture channels. see: http://www.photonstimulator.com/Article%20Russian.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did you know they have studied the light that the human body puts off. If a person has a tumor, there is less light emitted from the area of the tumor. This work has been done at the University of Missouri. Before you condemn, look, study with an open mind. It is very unscientific to approach a topic that way.

If the body is electrical, and it is, and the hand is a part of the body, why can not the hand change the polarity in the body by passing it over the body? Did you know that if patients who have had their gall bladders removed will use almost 50% less self administered pain medication if they can see a tree outside their hospital room? But light is only energy that transfers information.

Just because science has not yet verified or studied a topic thoroughly does not invalidate it. There is a tomorrow you know. But in the mean time, check out this: http://www.reiki.net.au/copy.asp?id=BenefitsScience" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and: http://www.centerforreikiresearch.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't do reiki. I don't necessarily support it. But, to call it evil for the reasons you have may not serve you well. Money isn't evil, but evil can use money. Medicine isn't evil, but evil can use medicine. The same carries for energy healing.

[Gideon]

You might be looking for a very clear scientific explanation for something you don't see, and don't understand. Ok, you're not the first.

I am looking for a definition of a human energy system that is based in science. Why? Because they claim that it has nothing to do with religion, which leaves only science. So, What kind of energy? How is it measured? What makes anyone think that it exists? Where did the idea come from? Who discovered it? When? How? If they can't answer these questions, why should anyone believe them?

But, to note, I have also heard that from quite a few investigators as to why they would never join the church, either.

I myself have yet to see God, angels, or understand how the miracles I've experience have worked. Were I to ignore or get rid of results that come from faith, and base my belief etc. on knowledge, I wouldn't have much religion (or much of many things). Personally, I don't believe in this type of God. That's my belief.

"results that come from faith", Energy healers don't use religion, they manipulate the human energy system. Faith is not involved.

I understand that much of what people are talking about re: energy work is opinion; but I am asking for more here, especially from those who try to connect it all to Satan and sin in some way or another. I don't think it's right to call others sinners when in fact it's just an opinion or a point of view.

Everyone involved with energy healing that I have been personally exposed to seems like a very good person. I believe that most of them want to do good. They have good intentions, they just lack supporting facts.

Consider for a moment what they ask others to believe in. A system within the body, like the nervous system or the digestive system, which can be altered by other humans without drugs or surgery, which has never been seen, and which is not even defined. They want us to believe that they have a gift that allows them to manipulate this system in such a way that our health is affected for the good. They expect us to believe them, and pay for their services, without providing any proof that they can actually do what they claim.

Has the FDA approved any of their techniques?

[Gideon]

It is no secret that flowing electrons create a magnetic field, but that doesn't mean the human body has an energy system that can be manipulated by gliding a hand over it.

Gideon, what is static electricity? Can you elicit a shock by gliding your hands over metal after rubbing your feet on the carpet? Do we use bones stimulators to heal bone? Is it electricity or not that it uses to accelerate the healing? The human body is an electrical instrument. Is that the only type of energy that exists in the body? Does air have energy? Is it made of atoms? Do they have energy? Does food have energy? Is it made of atoms, which are made of energy? Certainly. So why are you so against the idea that these energy systems exist? Heavens, in the lectures on faith it says faith is mental energy.

Light has been shown to be transported in the human body along acupuncture channels. see: http://www.photonstimulator.com/Article%20Russian.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did you know they have studied the light that the human body puts off. If a person has a tumor, there is less light emitted from the area of the tumor. This work has been done at the University of Missouri. Before you condemn, look, study with an open mind. It is very unscientific to approach a topic that way.

If the body is electrical, and it is, and the hand is a part of the body, why can not the hand change the polarity in the body by passing it over the body? Did you know that if patients who have had their gall bladders removed will use almost 50% less self administered pain medication if they can see a tree outside their hospital room? But light is only energy that transfers information.

Just because science has not yet verified or studied a topic thoroughly does not invalidate it. There is a tomorrow you know. But in the mean time, check out this: http://www.reiki.net.au/copy.asp?id=BenefitsScience" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and: http://www.centerforreikiresearch.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't do reiki. I don't necessarily support it. But, to call it evil for the reasons you have may not serve you well. Money isn't evil, but evil can use money. Medicine isn't evil, but evil can use medicine. The same carries for energy healing.

I realize that there are all kinds of things that we mortals know nothing about, including different types of energy that exist throughout creation, and in our own bodies. I do have a very open mind, but I am not willing to accept the idea of a specific system in our bodies without some science, and energy healers don't have any at all. Being able to detect electromagnetic fields doesn't do it. Being able to conduct light doesn't do it.

If the human energy system cannot be seen or measured in any way, where did the idea come from? And why would anyone think for a moment that they can cause someone to be healed by gliding their hands over them?

I don't think energy healers are evil, just scammed.

[JohnnyL]

To all anti-energy healing people who have put everything into God/Satan dichotomy: I would love to hear your answers to this question: is Western medicine from God or Satan?

Gideon wrote:

They have good intentions, they just lack supporting facts.

Interesting, I imagine many of them feel the same about you, as even you keep admitting it is your opinion. It is a little understandable, as there has been a push for many years that only the Western-world USA AMA is "proper" medicine.

And what do you think of this?

Everyone involved with [the Mormon church] that I have been personally exposed to seems like a very good person. I believe that most of them want to do good. They have good intentions, they just lack supporting facts.

Consider for a moment what they ask others to believe in. A [God] which has never been seen, and which [therefore can't be] defined. They want us to believe that they have a gift that allows them to manipulate [God] in such a way that our [life] is affected for the good. They expect us to believe them, and [join them], without providing any proof that they can actually do what they claim.

Has [science/ any other religious leader] approved any of the [Mormons'] techniques [or beliefs]?

But maybe you would say 'because of the difference of faith'?:

"results that come from faith", Energy healers don't use religion, they manipulate the human energy system. Faith is not involved.

And yet, when I brought up results as evidence, you said:

Results are irrelevant.

(Sun May 15, 2011 8:16 pm)

In this case, results wouldn't matter.

(Sun May 15, 2011 8:38 pm)

What about Alma 32? Isn't Alma's discourse about finding out the truth about the word of God through results by experimentation? I believe that results do count for God, though of course the means--if we know them--count first.

You said:

I would want a peer reviewed document that explains the science behind his results.

The science I understand deals with results; explanations come later. In fact, results test the truthfulness of the explanation. That's what "scientific studies" are about. To say you want scientific evidence, then fight against what has become "the" scientific method, doesn't seem like it would lead anywhere useful.

And yes, Rand and I provided lots of "scientific" links and reading material--including about the theory, explanations, etc.--for anyone interested. Now, if you personally don't want to read or believe, that's fine; but arguing that there is no science or evidence behind any of it seems being intentionally ignorant to at least a few of the points at this point; and if I were going into battle ("battling energy healers") for those "good people who need to be reclaimed", and against "others who need to be stopped" by "convincing the priesthood that it isn't harmless", I myself would feel like being armed with more than just my personal opinion...

Anti-energy healing people, let's take a look at most of the threads on this forum. The prophets have never spoken on many of the topics, yet...

Have the prophets spoken on chemtrails, ever? Yet some of us say:

I am always very wary of people who purport to have a greater knowledge of God's ways than the prophets.

So does that mean that everyone should be "very wary" of most everyone on this forum? Are chemtrails real? If so, why haven't the prophets spoken about them? Especially in general conference? I mean, there's even a former pilot in the First Presidency! Surely he would have told us, if anything!!
That reasoning doesn't necessarily work well, and it shouldn't work well here.

Still, energy healing is singled out, and strongly condemned, without real support. Perhaps the condemners might ask themselves, Why?

I have yet to see anyone answer An Eye Single's comments, either.

BrianM wrote:

If the Lord gave you the gift of healing, why the need for taking an energy healing class?!! Why would anyone want to mingle the philosophies of man with the gifts of God?

BrianM (and most every other anti-energy healing person): Maybe the answers to the following questions will help you understand "why":

If someone studies languages and has the gift to learn, but is not LDS, is that a deception from Satan?
Is my car from God or Satan?
Is my suit from God or Satan?
If my car runs out of gas, is it ok to add gas, or just give it a priesthood blessing all the time?
If my suit (especially my Sunday suit) gets a tear, do I sew it with thread or just give it a priesthood blessing?
Should I lock my door at night, or just give my house a priesthood blessing?
Should I wear my seatbelt, or just give my car a priesthood blessing/ just get a priesthood blessing to heal me or get raised from the dead if I get in an accident?
If I am very excited about my new car, and like to drive it everywhere, and offer rides to everyone, instead of relying on priesthood miracles of being carried by the Spirit from one place to another, am I consciously or being duped by Satan?

Some of those questions might seem a little ludicrous (but it's often a good reasoning tool--take it to the extreme, see what happens)--but if you are certain everything can be divided into just God or Satan, and that anything clearly not of the priesthood is from Satan...?

Seriously, any answers?

What about acupuncture?
What about magnets?
What about EMF pendants?
What about water?

If someone is not a good member for wearing a big necklace, or a tie-dye shirt, or having long hair, or ... Sure, you might think they are weird, but is that cause for everything else many propose?

I know Mormons who abuse their spouses; does that mean the church isn't true?

Once more, any answers to those questions? Or do they too easily prove an unfounded bias?

BrianM, I would say the answer is, it's not mingling at all. And as to this:

My point is, if you have truly received the Gift of Healing from Father you would not need to be instructed how to use it via "doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men".

--I ask, would you say that Elder Nelson got his the wrong way?

"Don't kill the messengers, or there won't be any messages."

I think Rincon had some wise words, too:

I don't think anyone is saying Energy Healing does not heal. The issue is that getting involved with groups who do this gradually moves a person away from the Church, and ends in apostasy. A lot of healing goes on in the world outside the Priesthood.

It can. So can buying a boat or a big-screen TV, going to a concert, flipping through the shows at night, going on a date, etc.
It's definitely a possible gateway for some, and possibly more serious than other "temptations". Yes, parts of what Rosabella and others say holds up. But as said, there is also serious misunderstanding and misrepresentation (and no seeming desire to correct it).
As a warning to both sides: As Jesus taught by calling Peter "Satan", anything that gets between us and God's will--including our spiritual gifts or strengths, as Elder Oaks taught ( http://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/10/our-s ... l?lang=eng )--is not right. Those things could include hobbies of energy healing, misapplication of healing gifts, etc. On the other hand, interestingly, those that oppose all energy healing and other good things fit nicely under the majority of the topics that Elder Oaks mentions, too. So, to all: beware.

So many things in this thread don't make sense to me. I mean, I see so many quotes that others connect with energy healing, but without an explainable and defendable basis.

Rosabella, and others:
So seriously, unless there is more than personal opinion to try to show that energy healing is from Satan, it would be nice if LDS would refrain from judging perhaps unjust and unrighteous judgment, and from trying to force others to accept that judgment and condemn others because of that judgment.

Instead, bring up concerns or points to talk about.

Remember, the world for Mormons is now much bigger and much more understanding (literally, not just emotionally/ tolerating) than Utah. (It is ironic that Pres. Kimball preached against face cards (which I still don't play), then talk about his playing majong all the time--for Chinese culture, it's the opposite--face cards are meaningless and for fun, and majong is about cheating, gambling, drinking, all-nighting, and organized crime!)
Yes, Chinese medicine and all that; Huna; Ayurveda and all that; indigenous people all over (South America, Africa, etc.); homeopathy; palmistry; so much more--add them all up, and that covers a lot.
Are they all perfect? No.
Do they mix spiritual teachings in? Yes--just as many Western medicine doctors do also (and usually to the detriment of the patient).
Are some of those teachings true? Yes, and they give us a better and clearer understanding of the laws we operate under.
Are some of those teachings incorrect? Yes, and sometimes very much so.

I take them--as I take my science teachings, non-LDS religious teachings, and more--as the Lord's advice to Joseph Smith about the Apocrypha, and Elder McConkie's comment on it:

‘There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly; There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men... Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom; And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited...’ (D. & C. 91.) . . . (short ellipses mine)
“Obviously, to gain any real value from a study of apocryphal writings, the student must first have an extended background of gospel knowledge, a comprehensive understanding of the standard works of the Church, plus the guidance of the Spirit.” (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 41–42.)

.

[Rand]

+1 Well said. Energy Healing should not be trumpeted as a whole, as virtuous or as evil. It is what it is in each situation and stands alone to be judged on its own merits. I would no more defend each person, modality or occurrence than I would condemn them as a whole.

We are left with the judge not unrighteous....

[Jason]

+1 Well said. Energy Healing should not be trumpeted as a whole, as virtuous or as evil. It is what it is in each situation and stands alone to be judged on its own merits. I would no more defend each person, modality or occurrence than I would condemn them as a whole.

We are left with the judge not unrighteous....

Is there a universal spiritual energy....or is it polarized?

[Rand]

Jason, that is an interesting question. I guess Satan would have no power if it were not polarized in some way. Certainly there seems to be power in evil. The Spirit would be my suggestion as a universal spiritual energy. Is it universal in its agreement or is it polarized. I would suggest polarized. There must needs be an opposition in all things. What say you?

[[email protected]]

I happen to know someone who worked for a church agency and used energy healing/counseling in his practice. He actually had an apostle observe and remarked that he had never seen such a merciful healing/practice. He began all his couseling sessions with prayer and always did everything through Jesus Christ. I do believe it is a system of the body and yes it can be used by one source or the other like everything else - the thing to be aware of is - which source is it from (God or Lucifer) It can be used for both and that is what we must use personal revelation for.

[Jason]

Jason, that is an interesting question. I guess Satan would have no power if it were not polarized in some way. Certainly there seems to be power in evil. The Spirit would be my suggestion as a universal spiritual energy. Is it universal in its agreement or is it polarized. I would suggest polarized. There must needs be an opposition in all things. What say you?

I think its polarized like a magnet....with opposite ends probably best depicted in the combat between Moses & Aaron vs. Pharaoh's Priests....although definitely not of equal strength as one side always wins in the end (more intelligence?).

[Rand]

I agree, but the world is confusing, because most things in the world are neither good or bad, but that we make them so by our intention. I can take prozac and have it stifle my eternal journey, or it can clear the path toward further growth. And the letter behind the name of the prescriber are not what determines it's impact.

[Jason]

I agree, but the world is confusing, because most things in the world are neither good or bad, but that we make them so by our intention. I can take prozac and have it stifle my eternal journey, or it can clear the path toward further growth. And the letter behind the name of the prescriber are not what determines it's impact.

It can be confusing....but ultimately I think it depends on who we turn to for help and guidance.

[Rand]

Agreed, so what caused you to ask the question? It seems you might have more to say or share than you are saying.

[Jason]

Agreed, so what caused you to ask the question? It seems you might have more to say or share than you are saying.

Just feeling things out. I have a guy in my HP group (twice my age) that is heavy into new age and we've had some heavy discussions about it. He believes there is a universal power that anyone (including God) can tap into.

[Rand]

Jason, I think there are New Age beliefs that tie into eternal principles, but you don't have to be a New Ager to believe them. The light of Christ could almost be seen as an eternal controlling principle. All who draw nearer to God do so through its light. Faith is described as mental energy by Joseph Smith. I do believe there is true faith and false faith. True faith is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. New Agers believe in a very Telestial doctrine. In and of itself it is not too bad, except that it draws them fro a higher path. That makes it despicable, except that most who follow it, don't have the goodness to be celestially exhalted. Energy healing doesn't reside in the realm of New Age movement. They cross paths often and many swim in both ponds, but they are distinctly different areas.

[Jason]

Jason, I think there are New Age beliefs that tie into eternal principles, but you don't have to be a New Ager to believe them. The light of Christ could almost be seen as an eternal controlling principle. All who draw nearer to God do so through its light. Faith is described as mental energy by Joseph Smith. I do believe there is true faith and false faith. True faith is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. New Agers believe in a very Telestial doctrine. In and of itself it is not too bad, except that it draws them fro a higher path. That makes it despicable, except that most who follow it, don't have the goodness to be celestially exhalted. Energy healing doesn't reside in the realm of New Age movement. They cross paths often and many swim in both ponds, but they are distinctly different areas.

Yes I reckon that depends on who's doing the energy healing and where that healing is coming from. From my limited knowledge of new age it appears they make slight tweaks to eternal principles/laws. Faith becomes Law of Attraction....etc etc etc. I reckon that could be called "tying into".

In my limited experience thus far I've found a strong correlation between new age philosophy and energy healing practitioners (individuals who practice both within the church). It is very interesting how the church has remained very quiet on the issue (1 article in the Ensign in Q&A section)....which lends credibility to Rosabella's testimony of the instruction given to her. Anyways time will tell the story on how it all washes out....

Thank you for your insights!

[JohnnyL]

Agreed, so what caused you to ask the question? It seems you might have more to say or share than you are saying.

Just feeling things out. I have a guy in my HP group (twice my age) that is heavy into new age and we've had some heavy discussions about it. He believes there is a universal power that anyone (including God) can tap into.

Very likely. Where does Satan get his power? Might it be the negative of the power of God? If not, then from where?
But how could Satan use the power of God, if it's God's (only) power? Does God let Satan use it, in order to test us? Or is there a negative to it? Opposites? Yin-Yang-type thing?
Possibly think of it this way: priesthood is for MAN. It's a key that connects to and controls the powers of God in a safe and good way.

In my limited experience thus far I've found a strong correlation between new age philosophy and energy healing practitioners (individuals who practice both within the church). It is very interesting how the church has remained very quiet on the issue (1 article in the Ensign in Q&A section)....which lends credibility to Rosabella's testimony of the instruction given to her. Anyways time will tell the story on how it all washes out....

How you correlate "which lends credibility to Rosabella's testimony of the instruction given to her" with this?:

I happen to know someone who worked for a church agency and used energy healing/counseling in his practice. He actually had an apostle observe and remarked that he had never seen such a merciful healing/practice. He began all his couseling sessions with prayer and always did everything through Jesus Christ. I do believe it is a system of the body and yes it can be used by one source or the other like everything else - the thing to be aware of is - which source is it from (God or Lucifer) It can be used for both and that is what we must use personal revelation for.

[Jason]

Agreed, so what caused you to ask the question? It seems you might have more to say or share than you are saying.

Just feeling things out. I have a guy in my HP group (twice my age) that is heavy into new age and we've had some heavy discussions about it. He believes there is a universal power that anyone (including God) can tap into.

Very likely. Where does Satan get his power? Might it be the negative of the power of God? If not, then from where?
But how could Satan use the power of God, if it's God's (only) power? Does God let Satan use it, in order to test us? Or is there a negative to it? Opposites? Yin-Yang-type thing?
Possibly think of it this way: priesthood is for MAN. It's a key that connects to and controls the powers of God in a safe and good way.

In my limited experience thus far I've found a strong correlation between new age philosophy and energy healing practitioners (individuals who practice both within the church). It is very interesting how the church has remained very quiet on the issue (1 article in the Ensign in Q&A section)....which lends credibility to Rosabella's testimony of the instruction given to her. Anyways time will tell the story on how it all washes out....

How you correlate "which lends credibility to Rosabella's testimony of the instruction given to her" with this?:

I happen to know someone who worked for a church agency and used energy healing/counseling in his practice. He actually had an apostle observe and remarked that he had never seen such a merciful healing/practice. He began all his couseling sessions with prayer and always did everything through Jesus Christ. I do believe it is a system of the body and yes it can be used by one source or the other like everything else - the thing to be aware of is - which source is it from (God or Lucifer) It can be used for both and that is what we must use personal revelation for.

Good luck!

[[email protected]]

Remember the movie in the Temple - of course I'm not asking someone to answer this, just to think about it - blew me away first time I saw it - can I say it - someone tell me if it's OK for me to say but not quote???

[JohnnyL]

Remember the movie in the Temple - of course I'm not asking someone to answer this, just to think about it - blew me away first time I saw it - can I say it - someone tell me if it's OK for me to say but not quote???

I'd not.
In general, if Satan said it, is it true or a lie? It's easy to see from the scriptures, which we can freely quote, that he likes to mix and match a lot...

[[email protected]]

No no no - you're not understanding LOL - let me just say this - it's about what he is wearing

[JohnnyL]

No no no - you're not understanding LOL - let me just say this - it's about what he is wearing

Right, I understood.

[[email protected]]

Interesting isn't it?

[Tina Marie]

All the energy healers I have ever known are LDS and some of the most amazing people I have ever met. They are so intune with the spirit and that makes them better at what they do. God created energy, once you know more about energy it's not that big a deal. has nothing to do with evil spirits {unless you want it to have to do with them} everything that lives has energy, a vibrational frequency. When we are sad our energy is lower, sometimes we need someone else to help move past the places we get stuck. has changed my life. If you'd like to have the contact info for some LDS healers I will provide that. They are amazing. I am going to get trained in it too.

[deggertsen]

After reading this entire forum post here are my conclusions:

First of all, this quote appeared to be the most relevant to me:

“Master we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

“And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.” (Luke 9:49–50).

We should never condemn those who seek to do good, even if their practice may appear evil to us. We do not know, nor can we know their circumstances that led them to where they are and therefore we should not judge.

I see energy work as a tool that can be used for good or evil. The determining factor is whether it is being used for priestcraft or not.

"Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the Welfare of Zion…. But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish" (2 Ne. 26:29, 31).

So what are the motives in energy healing? Are they for the Welfare of Zion or that they might set themselves up for a light unto the world? Who is the healer? Is the energy healer giving themselves the glory or is the glory given to Jesus Christ? Priestcraft is what leads to apostasy and unfortunately those who are able to perform great works tend to lift themselves up in pride, setting themselves up for apostasy. It would seem to me that the more we are given, the more that is required. Even the Priesthood itself has been known to lift people up in pride to the point they leave the church (D&C 121:39, I could give specific examples but it would take me more time). Does this make the tool or gift evil?

Truth is truth and light is light. Elements of the philosophies of men can be mingled with scripture and darkness can creep into the light, but does that make the scriptures false and the light darkness? I submit to you all that truth is found in all places. There may be those who mingle light with dark, but do not let that blind you to the light that may be there. With Christ as our foundation we can discern the light from the darkness and take that light to add to the light which we already have. Of course it is important that we keep Christ as our foundation and let the spirit, scriptures, and priesthood leaders guide you in whichever way you feel is best. If you feel the spirit is telling you to not dabble in energy work, then let this be a warning to you. If you feel the spirit is telling you to help others using the tool of energy work, then let this be council to you. We can only receive revelation for those within our own stewardship, which for most of us is simply within our own family. Therefore do not judge or marvel in the purposes of the Spirit, for none of us fully understand God's designs. Until those who have stewardship over all of us (the prophet and apostles) tell us flat out that it is evil, do not consider it to be evil for everyone even if it may seem evil to you.