Need recommendations for battling energy healers

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ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

This comes from a General Conference address by President Gordon B. Hinckley in Oct. 1988:
(You can find the talk in the Nov. 1988 Ensign under "The Healing Power of Christ")
Christ healed by the power of God which was within Him. That power He gave to His chosen disciples, saying, “And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt. 16:19.)

That same power has been restored in this generation. It came through the laying on of hands by Peter, James, and John, who received it from the Lord Himself. It was bestowed upon Joseph Smith, the prophet of this dispensation. Its presence is among us.....

Declared James of old: “Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

“And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.” (James 5:14–15.)

That power to heal the sick is still among us. It is the power of the priesthood of God. It is the authority held by the elders of this Church.

We welcome and praise and utilize the marvelous procedures of modern medicine which have done so much to alleviate human suffering and lengthen human life. All of us are indebted to the dedicated men and women of science and medicine who have conquered so much of disease, who have mitigated pain, who have stayed the hand of death. I cannot say enough of gratitude for them.

Yet they are the first to admit the limitations of their knowledge and the imperfection of their skills in dealing with many matters of life and death. The mighty Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that in them are has given to His servants a divine power that sometimes transcends all the powers and knowledge of men. I venture to say that there is scarcely a faithful elder within the sound of my voice who could not recount instances in which this healing power has been made manifest in behalf of the sick. It is the healing power of Christ....

As members of the Church of Jesus Christ, ours is a ministry of healing, with a duty to bind the wounds and ease the pain of those who suffer. Upon a world afflicted with greed and contention, upon families distressed by argument and selfishness, upon individuals burdened with sin and troubles and sorrows, I invoke the healing power of Christ, giving my witness of its efficacy and wonder. I testify of Him who is the great source of healing. He is the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world, “The Sun of Righteousness,” who came “with healing in his wings.” Of this I humbly testify in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, amen.

Rosabella
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Posts: 1186

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rosabella »

ChemtrailWatcher wrote:This comes from a General Conference address by President Gordon B. Hinckley in Oct. 1988:
(You can find the talk in the Nov. 1988 Ensign under "The Healing Power of Christ")
Christ healed by the power of God which was within Him. That power He gave to His chosen disciples, saying, “And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt. 16:19.)

That same power has been restored in this generation. It came through the laying on of hands by Peter, James, and John, who received it from the Lord Himself. It was bestowed upon Joseph Smith, the prophet of this dispensation. Its presence is among us.....

Declared James of old: “Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

“And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.” (James 5:14–15.)

That power to heal the sick is still among us. It is the power of the priesthood of God. It is the authority held by the elders of this Church.

We welcome and praise and utilize the marvelous procedures of modern medicine which have done so much to alleviate human suffering and lengthen human life. All of us are indebted to the dedicated men and women of science and medicine who have conquered so much of disease, who have mitigated pain, who have stayed the hand of death. I cannot say enough of gratitude for them.

Yet they are the first to admit the limitations of their knowledge and the imperfection of their skills in dealing with many matters of life and death. The mighty Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that in them are has given to His servants a divine power that sometimes transcends all the powers and knowledge of men. I venture to say that there is scarcely a faithful elder within the sound of my voice who could not recount instances in which this healing power has been made manifest in behalf of the sick. It is the healing power of Christ....

As members of the Church of Jesus Christ, ours is a ministry of healing, with a duty to bind the wounds and ease the pain of those who suffer. Upon a world afflicted with greed and contention, upon families distressed by argument and selfishness, upon individuals burdened with sin and troubles and sorrows, I invoke the healing power of Christ, giving my witness of its efficacy and wonder. I testify of Him who is the great source of healing. He is the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world, “The Sun of Righteousness,” who came “with healing in his wings.” Of this I humbly testify in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, amen.
Beautiful Talk! Thank you for sharing that:)

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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

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@An Eye Single (and others),

If the Lord gave you the gift of healing, why the need for taking an energy healing class?!! Why would anyone want to mingle the philosophies of man with the gifts of God?

(D&C 46: "ye are commanded in all things to ask of God, who giveth liberally; and that which the Spirit testifies unto you even so I would that ye should do in all holiness of heart, walking uprightly before me, considering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving, that ye may not be seduced by evil spirits, or doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men; for some are of men, and others of devils. Wherefore, beware lest ye are deceived; and that ye may not be deceived seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given; For verily I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments, and him that seeketh so to do; that all may be benefited that seek or that ask of me, that ask and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts")

After learning much about the new age and the things they are able to do and comparing that with what you can do with the Priesthood, prayer, faith and will of God, I have realized that there are many similarities but the main difference is that that which comes of God, is not something you force, it's something that God will give you if it his will... (I shared some of my experiences regarding this in the private forum entitled "Gifts & Spiritual Experiences of God vs Devil")

Here's a challenge to 'An Eye Single' and any others... show me in the scriptures and words of the prophets what instructions we have been given regarding healing whether it be via the priesthood, faith, prayer, gift of healing, etc... (I think it would be interesting to further research everything the scriptures and church authorities have taught regarding 'the gift of healing') and why it would ever be a good idea to go to a 'new age energy healing class'???

My point is, if you have truly received the Gift of Healing from Father you would not need to be instructed how to use it via "doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men".

Everything I have personally experienced and read (from the Lord/prophets) leads me to believe that "energy healing" is of the devil. Just the very concepts mentioned when people speak of "energy healing" come straight from the new age occult teachers (i.e. "doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men"). I'm certainly open to being shown otherwise. If "energy healing" is part of the gifts of the spirit, the gift of healing, then there would be no need to receive any instruction regarding how to use it coming from "doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men".

ChemtrailWatcher
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Posts: 518

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Here's an article I just found from the Liahona that addresses "alternative" forms of spiritual healing. The man who answered the question is not a GA, nor does he claim to make any statements on behalf of official Church policy, but I think it's worth considering as a possibly different perspective:

“I Have a Question,” Tambuli, Aug 1981, 22–25

Questions of general gospel interest answered for guidance, not as official statements of Church policy.

Can healings be real if they are not performed by the priesthood?


William E. Berrett, “I Have a Question,” Tambuli, Aug. 1981, 22–25

William E. Berrett, Stake patriarch and professor emeritus of Church history and doctrine, Brigham Young University.

While considering this question, remember that one of the Lord’s apostles once said to him,

“Master we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

“And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.” (Luke 9:49–50).

Clearly, it is good to be healed. And there are many ways to be healed in addition to the administration of the priesthood—by good health habits, herbs, medicines, and prayers of faith.

God has given us the Word of Wisdom as a health guide. He has also provided various herbs in the earth that have healing properties. We read in the book of Alma that “there were some who died with fevers, which at some seasons of the year were very frequent in the land—but not so much with fevers, because of the excellent qualities of the many plants and roots which God had prepared to remove the cause of diseases, to which men were subject by the nature of the climate.” (Alma 46:40).

For countless ages medicine men in all cultures have used many of nature’s remedies and have healed many people. And in our day, God has poured forth knowledge upon the earth which the medical profession has used to administer much relief to the sick and afflicted—thankfully going far beyond the limited herbal remedies available to earlier cultures.

God expects us to utilize all that he has provided to heal us of our afflictions. The question which has bothered man the most has had to do with healings in which none of nature’s known remedies or of man’s medical skill has been applied to the sick individual. These have usually been termed faith healings—healings which may have occurred either through the power of the mind over the body or by the administration of the power of God. While both of these methods are legitimate, they are often confused; healings caused by mind over body are frequently mistaken for priesthood healings.

The more we learn about the power of the mind over the body, the clearer it becomes that to some extent, and in ways still largely unknown to us, our mind can and does effect a powerful role in selected kinds of health improvement. Mostly, however, we are just beginning to glimpse these capabilities, rather than being able to implement them.

Countless healings have occurred through exercising the power of the mind over the physical body. Aboriginal doctors, for example, have employed sometimes devious methods to induce faith in the sick that they might be healed. Healings have often followed not because of the incantations of the doctor, but because of a natural law whereby the mind is able to affect the body.

The great preacher, George Fox, founder of the Society of Quakers, advocated faith healings with some success, though all too often the malady returned, only to be labeled by him as punishment for disobedience to God. Other healings have occurred at shrines such as Mecca in Arabia, though only a very small proportion of those who go to be healed actually are. There have been some faith healings at revivalist meetings, but the permanence of some of the relief has been questioned. Further, Christian Scientists contend that pain does not exist but is only an error of the human faculty.

I believe that many who are healed by the power of the mind and the spirit over the body have not been led by men influenced by the devil but by good-intentioned individuals, and that the faith which has produced healings at shrines, for example, is not necessarily the work of the devil, but may have been simply the application of an unrecognized God-given principle of life. I also believe that when we classify all such healings as being of the devil, we do an unjustice to that group of well-meaning individuals who have induced the sick to exercise faith, even though it is very apparent that some incantations and exhortations used and some settings and individuals do not reflect the Spirit of God.

I believe that we must recognize that there are charlatans, imbued with unholy purposes, who use the true principle of the relationship of mind and body in devilish ways. While the devil cannot do good, men imbued with evil designs may sometimes mix the good and the evil. This led Brigham Young to say of the hypnotism he saw practiced in his day: Hypnotism is an inverted truth; it originated in holy, good, and righteous principles, which have been inverted by the power of the devil … Show me one principle that has originated by the power of the devil. You cannot do it. I call evil inverted good, or a correct principle made an evil use of.” (Journal of Discourses, 3:156–57).

We find examples of this evil use of true principles in Biblical and historical accounts. For examples, using demonic powers, the magicians of Egypt were able to duplicate many of the miracles Moses performed with the power of God (See Ex. 7–8). During the days of the early apostles, Simon the sorcerer so convincingly portrayed his satanic powers as divine that many people, “from the least to the greatest, (said), This man is the great power of God.” (Acts 8:10). In 1830, Hiram Page, one of the eight witnesses of the Book of Mormon, claimed to receive “revelations” for the Church from a certain stone he had obtained. Although these “revelations” contradicted those Joseph Smith had received from the Lord, his manner of receiving them deceived several members of the Church, including Oliver Cowdery. The Lord commanded Oliver to tell Brother Page “that those things which he hath written from that stone are not of me and that Satan deceiveth him,” (D&C 28:11). Eight years later, Hiram Page left the Church. Obviously in these cases, Satan gave men mighty power so similar to that manifested by true servants of God that many were deceived. It seems to me, therefore, that true principles can be used both for good and for evil.

Now, with this understanding of other kinds of healings—some good and some of Satan, let’s turn to priesthood healings. There are limitations to healings produced by faith alone. But when the faith of the sick person is accompanied by the healing administration of priesthood power, there is no limit to the possible results. Listen to the invitation of Christ to the Nephites:

“Have ye any that are sick among you? Bring them hither. Have ye any that are lame, or blind, or halt, or maimed, or leprous, or that are withered, or that are deaf, or that are afflicted in any manner? Bring them hither and I will heal them, for I have compassion upon you; my bowels are filled with mercy.” (3 Ne. 17:7).

In priesthood healings the faith of the afflicted is also a vital factor—but it is true faith in a true power: the priesthood. In such cases, faith acts somewhat as a catalyst in bringing about the desired physical reaction. Mark, in his Gospel writing, records that the Lord could perform few of his usual healings during his visit to the people of his native Nazareth because of the people’s unbelief. (See Mark 6:5).

Thus, when the priesthood of God lays hands upon the faithful sick, a powerful healing element flows from the priesthood holder to the mind and body of the recipient. It is as real as the ultraviolet ray or the laser beam, but far more potent, when the right conditions prevail, in affecting the physical body.

Brigham Young thus explained it:

“When I lay hands on the sick, I expect the healing power and influence of God to pass through me to the patient, and the disease to give way.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1977, p. 162).

Although this healing power which flows through proper priesthood administration is not understood by the world, it is known and attested to by the people of God. Thus, while recognizing the power of faith without priesthood administration, Latter-day Saints look for the far more potent healing power of the priesthood of God, which circumscribes and encompasses all other forms of healing, and when necessary, goes far beyond any of them in its power and healing influence. (See D&C 43:44.)
The impression I get from this man's perspective is that things aren't necessarily "cut and dried," but he still maintains the point that the power of the Priesthood trumps all else. If you're someone who has the gospel in your life and a knowledge of that infinite power, then why seek other forms of healing that are questionable?

Rosabella
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Posts: 1186

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rosabella »

ChemtrailWatcher wrote:Here's an article I just found from the Liahona that addresses "alternative" forms of spiritual healing. The man who answered the question is not a GA, nor does he claim to make any statements on behalf of official Church policy, but I think it's worth considering as a possibly different perspective:

“I Have a Question,” Tambuli, Aug 1981, 22–25

Questions of general gospel interest answered for guidance, not as official statements of Church policy.

Can healings be real if they are not performed by the priesthood?


William E. Berrett, “I Have a Question,” Tambuli, Aug. 1981, 22–25

William E. Berrett, Stake patriarch and professor emeritus of Church history and doctrine, Brigham Young University.

While considering this question, remember that one of the Lord’s apostles once said to him,

“Master we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

“And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.” (Luke 9:49–50).

Clearly, it is good to be healed. And there are many ways to be healed in addition to the administration of the priesthood—by good health habits, herbs, medicines, and prayers of faith.

God has given us the Word of Wisdom as a health guide. He has also provided various herbs in the earth that have healing properties. We read in the book of Alma that “there were some who died with fevers, which at some seasons of the year were very frequent in the land—but not so much with fevers, because of the excellent qualities of the many plants and roots which God had prepared to remove the cause of diseases, to which men were subject by the nature of the climate.” (Alma 46:40).

For countless ages medicine men in all cultures have used many of nature’s remedies and have healed many people. And in our day, God has poured forth knowledge upon the earth which the medical profession has used to administer much relief to the sick and afflicted—thankfully going far beyond the limited herbal remedies available to earlier cultures.

God expects us to utilize all that he has provided to heal us of our afflictions. The question which has bothered man the most has had to do with healings in which none of nature’s known remedies or of man’s medical skill has been applied to the sick individual. These have usually been termed faith healings—healings which may have occurred either through the power of the mind over the body or by the administration of the power of God. While both of these methods are legitimate, they are often confused; healings caused by mind over body are frequently mistaken for priesthood healings.

The more we learn about the power of the mind over the body, the clearer it becomes that to some extent, and in ways still largely unknown to us, our mind can and does effect a powerful role in selected kinds of health improvement. Mostly, however, we are just beginning to glimpse these capabilities, rather than being able to implement them.

Countless healings have occurred through exercising the power of the mind over the physical body. Aboriginal doctors, for example, have employed sometimes devious methods to induce faith in the sick that they might be healed. Healings have often followed not because of the incantations of the doctor, but because of a natural law whereby the mind is able to affect the body.

The great preacher, George Fox, founder of the Society of Quakers, advocated faith healings with some success, though all too often the malady returned, only to be labeled by him as punishment for disobedience to God. Other healings have occurred at shrines such as Mecca in Arabia, though only a very small proportion of those who go to be healed actually are. There have been some faith healings at revivalist meetings, but the permanence of some of the relief has been questioned. Further, Christian Scientists contend that pain does not exist but is only an error of the human faculty.

I believe that many who are healed by the power of the mind and the spirit over the body have not been led by men influenced by the devil but by good-intentioned individuals, and that the faith which has produced healings at shrines, for example, is not necessarily the work of the devil, but may have been simply the application of an unrecognized God-given principle of life. I also believe that when we classify all such healings as being of the devil, we do an unjustice to that group of well-meaning individuals who have induced the sick to exercise faith, even though it is very apparent that some incantations and exhortations used and some settings and individuals do not reflect the Spirit of God.

I believe that we must recognize that there are charlatans, imbued with unholy purposes, who use the true principle of the relationship of mind and body in devilish ways. While the devil cannot do good, men imbued with evil designs may sometimes mix the good and the evil. This led Brigham Young to say of the hypnotism he saw practiced in his day: Hypnotism is an inverted truth; it originated in holy, good, and righteous principles, which have been inverted by the power of the devil … Show me one principle that has originated by the power of the devil. You cannot do it. I call evil inverted good, or a correct principle made an evil use of.” (Journal of Discourses, 3:156–57).

We find examples of this evil use of true principles in Biblical and historical accounts. For examples, using demonic powers, the magicians of Egypt were able to duplicate many of the miracles Moses performed with the power of God (See Ex. 7–8). During the days of the early apostles, Simon the sorcerer so convincingly portrayed his satanic powers as divine that many people, “from the least to the greatest, (said), This man is the great power of God.” (Acts 8:10). In 1830, Hiram Page, one of the eight witnesses of the Book of Mormon, claimed to receive “revelations” for the Church from a certain stone he had obtained. Although these “revelations” contradicted those Joseph Smith had received from the Lord, his manner of receiving them deceived several members of the Church, including Oliver Cowdery. The Lord commanded Oliver to tell Brother Page “that those things which he hath written from that stone are not of me and that Satan deceiveth him,” (D&C 28:11). Eight years later, Hiram Page left the Church. Obviously in these cases, Satan gave men mighty power so similar to that manifested by true servants of God that many were deceived. It seems to me, therefore, that true principles can be used both for good and for evil.

Now, with this understanding of other kinds of healings—some good and some of Satan, let’s turn to priesthood healings. There are limitations to healings produced by faith alone. But when the faith of the sick person is accompanied by the healing administration of priesthood power, there is no limit to the possible results. Listen to the invitation of Christ to the Nephites:

“Have ye any that are sick among you? Bring them hither. Have ye any that are lame, or blind, or halt, or maimed, or leprous, or that are withered, or that are deaf, or that are afflicted in any manner? Bring them hither and I will heal them, for I have compassion upon you; my bowels are filled with mercy.” (3 Ne. 17:7).

In priesthood healings the faith of the afflicted is also a vital factor—but it is true faith in a true power: the priesthood. In such cases, faith acts somewhat as a catalyst in bringing about the desired physical reaction. Mark, in his Gospel writing, records that the Lord could perform few of his usual healings during his visit to the people of his native Nazareth because of the people’s unbelief. (See Mark 6:5).

Thus, when the priesthood of God lays hands upon the faithful sick, a powerful healing element flows from the priesthood holder to the mind and body of the recipient. It is as real as the ultraviolet ray or the laser beam, but far more potent, when the right conditions prevail, in affecting the physical body.

Brigham Young thus explained it:

“When I lay hands on the sick, I expect the healing power and influence of God to pass through me to the patient, and the disease to give way.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1977, p. 162).

Although this healing power which flows through proper priesthood administration is not understood by the world, it is known and attested to by the people of God. Thus, while recognizing the power of faith without priesthood administration, Latter-day Saints look for the far more potent healing power of the priesthood of God, which circumscribes and encompasses all other forms of healing, and when necessary, goes far beyond any of them in its power and healing influence. (See D&C 43:44.)
The impression I get from this man's perspective is that things aren't necessarily "cut and dried," but he still maintains the point that the power of the Priesthood trumps all else. If you're someone who has the gospel in your life and a knowledge of that infinite power, then why seek other forms of healing that are questionable?
I think an issue I have with Berrett's views is he seems to put a bit too much emphasis on just the Priesthood and not of it being the power of God and God's will. Also I agree that there is some degree of mind of body because there is a chemical reaction in the brain that can send out harmful or helpful reactions in the body. But I draw the line there. I am not saying I disagree with all he wrote but I do disagree with the overall vibe of it. It leads one to think there is a universal power even if it is the mind that can create healing. This leans a bit too close to the new age in my opinion.

This article is listed as on of the Non-official Church answers in the Ensign. Therefore it is not concrete doctrines.

I do not want to go into detail but personally for me I unfortunately read Berrett's writing with a grain of salt, due to personal experiences with him and knowledge of false doctrines he personally told me and others that he had to be corrected by authorities regarding them. One example is he told me and someone else that Patriarchal Blessings are not inspired by God they are merely come from his knowledge of the Scriptures and that if we were not so lazy we would not need to get Blessings because all the information was in the Scriptures. So he denounced that it was by the power of revelation and inspiraton that Patriarchal Blessings were given. He believed it was because of his great research that he knew what to say. I do not know if he always felt that way or not but that is what he told me in his later years. This false doctrine was corrected by authorities. Therefore knowing his views on Patriartical Blessings makes me question and wonder about his views on where any of the powers come from.

It was hard for me to write this because I do not want to speak badly of a man whom may have done great works. I just know that he was not always doctrinally correct and felt the need to tell what I knew about that. I do not want people to disregard what he says but to make sure that you get the Spirit to witness if what he says is true or not on your own and not just assume it is correct because it is in the Ensign. I personally tend to lean toward embracing what I read in the Ensign this is my rare exception.

ndjili
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by ndjili »

I'll just post this again
Following baptism, each of us had hands laid on our heads to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. If we are faithful, we can have His influence continually with us. Through Him, each of us can be blessed with certain spiritual powers called gifts of the Spirit. These gifts are given to those who are faithful to Christ. “All these gifts come from God, for the benefit of the children of God” (D&C 46:26).They help us know and teach the truths of the gospel. They will help us bless others. They will guide us back to our Heavenly Father. To use our gifts wisely, we need to know what they are, how we can develop them, and how to recognize Satan’s imitations of them.

The Gift of Healing (D&C 46:19–20)
Some have the faith to heal, and others have the faith to be healed. We can all exercise the faith to be healed when we are ill (see D&C 42:48). Many who hold the priesthood have the gift of healing the sick. Others may be given a knowledge of how to cure illness.




Elder Marion G. Romney

Third, find out whether the worker of the purported miracle has himself received the gift of the Holy Ghost through the prescribed ordinances. If he has not, then his works, whatever they may be, are not the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. This is a key test because, as we have already pointed out, the gifts of the spirit are given by the power of the Holy Ghost. Without the gift of the Holy Ghost, the manifestations of his gifts may not be enjoyed. The Prophet Joseph Smith states this foundation doctrine as follows:

We believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost being enjoyed now, as much as it was in the Apostles' day; we believe that it [the gift of the Holy Ghost] is necessary to make and to organize the priesthood, that no man can be called to fill any office in the ministry without it; we also believe in prophecy, in tongues, in visions, and in revelations, in gifts, and in healings; and that these things cannot be enjoyed without the gift of the Holy Ghost. (History of the Church, Vol. V, p. 27.)

Thus one who has never received the gift of the Holy Ghost cannot possibly work miracles by his power.





Quote:
Jeffrey R. Holland, “‘Sanctify Yourselves’,” Liahona, Jan 2001, 46–49
…there is no neutral ground in the universe: every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counterclaimed by Satan


Quote:
Teachings of Joseph Smith

The sick may be healed through faith and the exercise of priesthood power, according to the Lord’s will.

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

James 5:14-15

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.




Quote:
James E. Talmage Articles of Faith

Page 211

“Satan has shown himself to be an accomplished strategist and a skillful imitator; the most deplorable of his victories are due to his simulation of good, whereby the undiscerning have been led captive. Let no one be deluded with the thought that any act, the immediate result of which appears to be benign, is necessarily productive of permanent good. It may serve the dark purposes of Satan to play upon the human sense of goodness, even to the extent of healing the body and apparently of thwarting death.”




Healing using Gods methods seem to require God. They are either a function of the Priesthood or a Gift of the Spirit. Either way one must have the proper ordinance done, through the laying on of hands, in order to heal. Joseph Smith said that the sign or custom marked out in James for healing is by the laying on of hands. You get the Holy Ghost though the laying on of hands and therefore are able, if righteous, to heal through faith and prayer..or you get the priesthood through the laying on of hands and are able, if righteous, to heal through the laying on of hands. A woman may have the gift to heal...but only by the gift of the Holy Ghost and her righteousness. The laying on of hands has occured and she is thus allowed to use a gift so long as she remains righteous. Also all is according to God's will. Knowing many a Wiccan, they all use medicine men...who do not have the Priesthood or the Holy Ghost...I'm confindent that they are not using methods prescribed or sanctioned by God and, if there is no neutral power, or space in the universe...according to the words of the prophets and apostles..then they are using the power of the devil...I see it plain as that.

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NoGreaterLove
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by NoGreaterLove »

This is a long list of quotes I found on this subject. Posted them just in case someone was still questioning this subject.

Whenever you see a Latter-day Saint begin to dabble in spiritualism, you will find that he begins to doubt the atonement of the Savior and the redemption wrought out by the shedding of His blood, and the doctrine of the resurrection of the body. These are signs that accompany spiritualism. Satan is laboring with all his might to lead men and women to these conclusions, binding them in chains of darkness and leading them down to everlasting destruction. It is the same with Christian Science, whose doctrines are being insidiously spread throughout the country. They are publishing books and circulating them gratuitously and endeavoring to undermine the faith of the people in the ordinances of the Gospel and in the words of Jesus contained in the New Testament. They tell the sick not to believe they are sick, to exercise their will power, and to consider sickness as imaginary; and we are told they are doing mighty works in healing the people. I would not be surprised at that, because I know that Satan is almost capable of deceiving the very elect. I believe that Satan can make himself appear to those who cannot discern, as an angel of light; and if he has that power, he has power also to deceive men and women in the flesh by performing mighty works. Was not this done in the days of Moses? Was not Pharaoh's heart hardened by the works of the magicians? He did not believe that Moses and Aaron were servants of God, but that they had a little more skill perhaps than his magicians had. So it is now. Satan is capable of deceiving the people.

I want in this conference, before we separate, to lift my voice in warning to the people of God against these insidious advances—against spiritualism, against Christian Science and against all such isms, however much they may profess to be of God. I hear that men who claim to be the Reorganized Church say that they have power to work miracles. Perhaps they have; but that is not evidence of the divinity of their cause, or that they are the authorized servants of God. This evidence is to be found, my brethren and sisters, in the blessings that God bestows upon His people.


(Brian H. Stuy, ed., Collected Discourses, 5 vols. [Burbank, Calif., and Woodland Hills, Ut.: B.H.S. Publishing, 1987-1992], 3: .)

Since Joseph Smith received revelations from God, Spiritualism has taken its rise, and has spread with unprecedented rapidity; and they will lay hands on each other—one system proving another—spiritualism demonstrating the reality of animal magnetism? Is there virtue in one person more than another? Power in one more than another? Spirit in one more than another? Yes, there is. I will tell you how much I have. You may assemble together every spiritualist on the face of the earth, and I will defy them to make a table move or get a communication from hell or any other place while I am present. Yes, there is more spirit in some than in others; and this power—called by the world animal magnetism—enables those possessing it to put others into the mesmeric sleep. When I lay hands on the sick, I expect the healing power and influence of God to pass through me to the patient, and the disease to give way. I do not say that I heal everybody I lay hands on; but many have been healed under my administration. Jesus said, on one occasion, "Who has touched me?" A woman had crept up behind him in the crowd, and touched the hem of his garment, and he knew it, because virtue had gone from him. Do you see the reason and propriety of laying hands on each other? When we are prepared, when we are holy vessels before the Lord, a stream of power from the Almighty can pass through the tabernacle of the administrator to the system of the patient, and the sick are made whole; the headache, fever or other disease has to give way. My brethren and sisters, there is virtue in us if we will do right; if we live our religion we are the temples of God wherein he will dwell; if we defile ourselves, these temples God will destroy
(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 14: 72 - 73.)

COUNSEL FROM PRESIDENT JOSEPH F. SMITH

At the April conference, 1901, President Joseph F. Smith gave the following counsel to the members of the Church:

Men and women may be deceived by the craftiness of the adversary and by the spirit of darkness that is in the world; they may be deceived . . . with hypnotism, with animal magnetism, with mesmerism, with spiritualism and with all the other man-made and demon-stimulated isms which exist in the world; but the elect of God shall see and know the truth. They will not be blind, because they will see; they will not be deaf, because they will hear; and they will walk in the light, as God is in the light, that they may have fellowship with Jesus Christ, and that his blood may cleanse them from all their sins. May God help us to do this. May he deliver us from secret combinations, and from the snares that are set to entrap our feet and to win our affections from the kingdom of God. I repeat what I have said scores of times, the kingdom of God is good enough for me. This organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints meets all my wants, and I have no need to fly to organizations that are gotten up by men for the purpose of making money. I pray God that his kingdom may be sufficient for you, that you may abide in the truth, and not be led away by these deceptive spirits that have gone forth in the world to lead men astray. Spiritualism started in the United States about the time that Joseph Smith received his visions from the heavens. What is more natural than that Lucifer should begin revealing himself to men in his cunning way, in order to deceive them and to distract their minds from the truth that God was revealing? and he has kept up pretty well ever since. May God bless Israel, and preserve us in the truth. . . . "


(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 4: 34.)

The restoration of the Priesthood to earth in this age of the world was followed by a phenomenal growth of the vagaries of spiritualism, whereby many were led to put their trust in Satan's counterfeit of God's eternal power. The development of the healing gift in the Church today is imitated in a degree comparable to that with which the magicians simulated the miracles of Moses, by the varied faith cures and their numerous modifications. For those to whom miraculous signs are all-sufficient, the imitation will answer as well as would the real; but the soul who regards the miracle in its true nature as but one element of the system of Christ, possessing value as a positive criterion only as it is associated with the numerous other characteristics of the Church, will not be deceived.

Gifts of the Spirit/Spiritual Gifts in the Church Today—The Latter-day Saints claim to possess within the Church all the sign-gifts promised as the heritage of the believer. They point to the unimpeached testimonies of thousands who have been blessed with direct and personal manifestations of heavenly power; to the once blind, deaf, dumb, halt, and weak in body, who have been freed from their infirmities through their faith and by the ministrations of the Holy Priesthood; to a multitude who have voiced their testimony in tongues with which they were naturally unfamiliar, or who have demonstrated their possession of the gift by a phenomenal mastery of foreign languages when such was necessary to the discharge of their duties as preachers of the word of God; to many who have enjoyed personal communion with heavenly beings; to others who have prophesied in words that have found speedy vindication in literal fulfilment; and to the Church itself, whose growth has been guided by the voice of God, made known through the gift of revelation. fn


(James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1981], 211.)

Monday, 16th.—In the evening Mr. Alberger and Dr. Darling called to see me, and spent the evening in conversation on the various phenomena of Spiritualism. Mr. Alberger related to me the circumstances of the introduction of a secret order, called the Patriarchal Order, which order, he said, was introduced by spirits in Cincinnati a short time previously by means of a stone, with a new alphabet and a key to read the same. He also made me a present of the stone, or rather a pattern of the same in plaster of Paris, with the alphabet thereon and key to read the same. Also a printed pamphlet containing the ceremonies of the "Patriarchal Order," and the forms of initiation of members into the same, with a request that I would take them to Salt Lake and exhibit them to the Council there.
(Parley P. Pratt, Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, edited by his son, Parley P. Pratt [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1985], 405.)

Men then, outside of the church, have discovered that there are spiritual agencies, and that they have the power of communicating with them. I do not call this in question. I grant you there is much fraud, much deception, connected with spiritualism, as there is much fraud and deception thrown around all facts of this character. But I believe there is a force in it, for I believe that men have the power of cummunication with the unseen world through that channel, and they perhaps receive replies to messages sent there. But shall the Latter-day Saints run after those who dabble in those things? If they do, would they not be reproved by the word of one of the ancient prophets, who said: "And when they say unto you, seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep and mutter, should not a people seek unto their God for the living to hear from the dead?"

In the Holy Priesthood God has established a channel of communication between the heavens and the earth. I know this is true.


(Brian H. Stuy, ed., Collected Discourses, 5 vols. [Burbank, Calif., and Woodland Hills, Ut.: B.H.S. Publishing, 1987-1992], 3: .)

Rob
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rob »

Yoga is fine. There are no commandments against stretching, breathing and relaxing. :roll:

Rosabella
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rosabella »

Rob wrote:Yoga is fine. There are no commandments against stretching, breathing and relaxing. :roll:
If it were just an exercise what you say would be true. But it is impossible to completely remove all spiritual aspects of yoga for yoga is a spiritual practice. It originates and is still practiced as such.

Each movement in Yoga has a spiritual meaning. It has breathing and mediation are to help enter an altered state of consciousness.

We are told to avoid other religions sacred Rites and Ceremonies. Yoga quite well fits that description. It is part of their rites and ceremonies. When you look at what real yoga teaches it is all spiritual in nature. Each pose has a meaning, the goal is to get to an altered state of consciousness in where you feel the oneness with everything.

Even the word Namaste shows the foundations of the belief system yoga comes from.
Namaste is one of a small list of Sanskrit words commonly recognized by Non-Hindi speakers.

* "I honor the Spirit in you which is also in me." -- attributed to but not claimed by author Deepak Chopra

* "I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells, I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Integrity, of Wisdom and of Peace. When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, we are One."

* "Your spirit and my spirit are ONE." -- attributed to Lilias Folan's shared teachings from her journeys to India.

* "That which is of God in me greets that which is of God in you."

* "The Divinity within me perceives and adores the Divinity within you."
"The reason why we do namaste has a deeper spiritual significance. It recognizes the belief that the life force, the divinity, the Self or the God in me is the same in all. Acknowledging this oneness with the meeting of the palms, we honor the god in the person we meet."
the ultimate aim of practicing Yoga is to create a balance between the body and the mind and to attain self-enlightenment.

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Randy
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Randy »

The problem with energy healing or any other old age/new age practice is that it is addicting. It makes a person feel "better" and they become addicted to that feeling. That is a case of putting our feeling nature's over our thinking nature's.
Since it is Luciferian the effect it has on the body is very elemental. It stirs up our dopamine levels to incredible highs that cannot be obtained elsewhere so the addicted personality very soon cannot live without it. It also opens us up to evil influences.

Sometimes we have physical problems for our own spiritual growth. Pain is sometimes the best spiritual stimulant there is.

It is important to understand that anything that is of Lucifer is an abomination before the Lord, but explaining that to others can be difficult. Particularly when they do not see that this practice or that practice is wrong.

Randy in Gunnison

Rincon
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rincon »

Original_Intent wrote:
Gideon wrote:ndjili, I have a situation where this quote will help alot, thanks:
The Gift of Healing (D&C 46:19–20)
Some have the faith to heal, and others have the faith to be healed. We can all exercise the faith to be healed when we are ill (see D&C 42:48). Many who hold the priesthood have the gift of healing the sick. Others may be given a knowledge of how to cure illness.
One of the questions I have is, if energy healing is of God, why isn't it mentioned in the scriptures? Why do the scriptures always direct us to get a blessing from the priesthood, and if the person doesn't have faith to be healed, then we care for them with herbs etc.

When Elder Oaks gave his talk in the priesthood session in April, why didn't he mention energy healers?
I am not defending enery healing at all, but what about the woman who touched the hem of Christ's garment and was healed? That was obviously not a "priesthod" blessing, and Christ said he felt the virtue (energy?) leave him...he didn;t rebuke her for what she did...where would that fit in I wonder?

I don't think anyone is saying Energy Healing does not heal. The issue is that getting involved with groups who do this gradually moves a person away from the Church, and ends in apostasy. A lot of healing goes on in the world outside the Priesthood.

Rand
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rand »

Frankly guys this feels way out of balance. I am an acupuncturist and have been for 25 years. I simply fail to see clarity derived from the use of such broad brush strokes used here. Where is the balance? All forms of energy healing are bad. No form of medical healing is bad, even though both can be validated by science. The Gadianton's control big pharma, and destroy lives to make money, but it is the new agers that are bad with energy healing? I just don't get the abnormal energy placed on this topic. I have read most of the posts on this and similar topics. It feels to me like I am reading anti mormon literature, just applied in a different way. I just don't get it. New agers here are considered worse than cancer or child molesters it seems. They are the very antichrist. I don't subscribe, but I have seen applying some of their concepts help people in their lives. I have learned many things from some of the promoters of this philosophy. I don't swallow much of it, but JS said to take truth where ever you find it. Mormonism is big enough to encompass all truth.
Someone enlighten me.
It is great to teach the truth, but what I don't get the passion about this lambasting that goes on. I even saw a Catholic Priest quoted the other day condemning the New Age movement. Now, does that seem like the pot calling the kettle black or what?

fps.sledge
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by fps.sledge »

Explain to these individuals the concept of selling an idea. This can be applied in a variety of ways in life. If an author of a book was to effectively convince someone within a few pages that their book "works" and "helps everyone who reads it" is a perfect example of selling an idea. When you accept to try this, you're buying into the idea, not necessarily the details. The details can be completely made up.

Those little bracelets that people are wearing? An idea. When my Brother bought one and was showing me how he was convinced of how it was true I stopped him and said "i've seen this same tactic used with other products. It has more to do with how to sell it (the idea) than the actual result."

Insurance is an idea. Insurance, in the long run, is a waste of money. Well, not exactly a waste, but it's not cheap. The reason insurance companies are in business making so much money is because people like the idea of being safe from harm and not spending large chunks of money and single incidents that "might" happen in life. If you use it often, insurance costs more. An insurance company wants to be able to make money from you, not provide you with charity.

Weight-loss is another one of those businesses where people buy into ideas all the time. Some of them work to an extent, but so many more love the IDEA of losing weight, but never actually achieve that goal.

I'm not discounting the efforts of all these other tactics. But if one can understand the concept of ideas (which fuel the evil political arena) and how those ideas will provide little value beyond an intellectual stimulant, perhaps these other tactics will follow a little easier.

Rand
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rand »

So if I hear you right when we buy into an idea, if it is saved by grace without works, or a necklace that heals all your ill's or prozac to alleviate any challenge you have living in your current state of "chemical imbalance", we are giving our agency to that notion, and the notion is other than "Faith in Christ". Thus it is a distraction to our eternal journey. And we give the power of our agency to a destructive process rather than a creative process.

KOMYU
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by KOMYU »

Rand wrote:Frankly guys this feels way out of balance. I am an acupuncturist and have been for 25 years. I simply fail to see clarity derived from the use of such broad brush strokes used here. Where is the balance? All forms of energy healing are bad. No form of medical healing is bad, even though both can be validated by science. The Gadianton's control big pharma, and destroy lives to make money, but it is the new agers that are bad with energy healing? I just don't get the abnormal energy placed on this topic. I have read most of the posts on this and similar topics. It feels to me like I am reading anti mormon literature, just applied in a different way. I just don't get it. New agers here are considered worse than cancer or child molesters it seems. They are the very antichrist. I don't subscribe, but I have seen applying some of their concepts help people in their lives. I have learned many things from some of the promoters of this philosophy. I don't swallow much of it, but JS said to take truth where ever you find it. Mormonism is big enough to encompass all truth.
Someone enlighten me.
It is great to teach the truth, but what I don't get the passion about this lambasting that goes on. I even saw a Catholic Priest quoted the other day condemning the New Age movement. Now, does that seem like the pot calling the kettle black or what?

+1

fps.sledge
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by fps.sledge »

Rand wrote:So if I hear you right .....
I would say you don't hear me right.

KOMYU
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by KOMYU »

fps.sledge wrote:
Rand wrote:So if I hear you right .....
I would say you don't hear me right.

I wonder if anyone hears you correctly.....? Maybe we are all deaf. ;)

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pjbrownie
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by pjbrownie »

My home teacher is dabbling in this. I think I offended him recently by recounting my concerns. He hasn't been over since.

Rand
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rand »

:)
Last edited by Rand on March 9th, 2011, 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rand
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rand »

fps.sledge wrote:
Rand wrote:So if I hear you right .....
I would say you don't hear me right.
I am sorry I didn't understand you. Maybe next time.

liberty2
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by liberty2 »

Frankly guys this feels way out of balance. I am an acupuncturist and have been for 25 years. I simply fail to see clarity derived from the use of such broad brush strokes used here. Where is the balance? All forms of energy healing are bad. No form of medical healing is bad, even though both can be validated by science. The Gadianton's control big pharma, and destroy lives to make money, but it is the new agers that are bad with energy healing? I just don't get the abnormal energy placed on this topic. I have read most of the posts on this and similar topics. It feels to me like I am reading anti mormon literature, just applied in a different way. I just don't get it. New agers here are considered worse than cancer or child molesters it seems. They are the very antichrist. I don't subscribe, but I have seen applying some of their concepts help people in their lives. I have learned many things from some of the promoters of this philosophy. I don't swallow much of it, but JS said to take truth where ever you find it. Mormonism is big enough to encompass all truth.
Someone enlighten me.
It is great to teach the truth, but what I don't get the passion about this lambasting that goes on. I even saw a Catholic Priest quoted the other day condemning the New Age movement. Now, does that seem like the pot calling the kettle black or what?Rand
captain of 100


I have to agree with Rand. The witch hunt is over the top. I do not see how any of these quotes relate to energy healing, unless you equate spiritualism with energy healing. That correlation is not clear to me.

I do not participate in energy healing. Thus I do NOT have a vested interest in this argument. I have, however, studied it enough to know what the discussion is about and to know that that power is not to be trifled with. In this setting, however, I see energy healing being slammed with a very broad "hammer" (so to speak) and the doctrinal documentation doesn't add up for me.

JohnnyL
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

If you search "lds energy healing", many sites seem to stand more on the "Yes" side than the "No" side...

Maybe it comes down to what kind of energy healing, how it's done, etc.

As a few of the articles brought up, I'm not sure why energy healing can be divided into only two things, but not much else can.

If someone studies languages and has the gift to learn, but is not LDS, is that a deception from Satan?
Is my car from God or Satan?
Is my suit from God or Satan?
If my car runs out of gas, is it ok to add gas, or just give it a priesthood blessing all the time?
If my suit (especially my Sunday suit) gets a tear, do I sew it with thread or just give it a priesthood blessing?
Should I lock my door at night, or just give my house a priesthood blessing?
Should I wear my seatbelt, or just give my car a priesthood blessing/ just get a priesthood blessing to heal me or get raised from the dead if I get in an accident?
If I am very excited about my new car, and like to drive it everywhere, and offer rides to everyone, instead of relying on priesthood miracles of being carried by the Spirit from one place to another, am I consciously or being duped by Satan?

Some of those questions might seem a little ludicrous (but it's often a good reasoning tool--take it to the extreme, see what happens)--but if you are certain everything can be divided into just God or Satan, and that anything clearly not of the priesthood is from Satan...?

Seriously, any answers?

What about acupuncture?
What about magnets?
What about EMF pendants?
What about water?

If someone is not a good member for wearing a big necklace, or a tie-dye shirt, or having long hair, or ... Sure, you might think they are weird, but is that cause for everything else many propose?

I know Mormons who abuse their spouses; does that mean the church isn't true?

I would like to hear stronger arguments for "no" than what has been presented, if possible. I'd like to get past "appearances" to things of more "true substance".

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Gideon
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Gideon »

JohnnyL wrote:
I would like to hear stronger arguments for "no" than what has been presented, if possible. I'd like to get past "appearances" to things of more "true substance".
Would you consider these points as substantive?:
1. Energy healing does not involve religion. Faith in Christ is not required. Keeping the commandments is not required. Belief in God is not required.
2. Because of #1, energy healers are not using the "powers of heaven" (D&C 121:34-36; 3 Ne 8:1)
3. When asked for a scientific definition of a "human energy system", energy healers don't have a reply. Without a definition it is impossible to prove that it exists using technology. If no one can prove that it exists, what is the basis for believing in it? Results don't count, unless an energy system (whatever that means) is the only explanation.
4. Kirlian photography, the only claim to science that energy healers attempt, records an aura created by running a low level of electricity through something moist. It does not record something that exists independent of the electrical current.
5. Doctors don't report finding the human energy system while performing surgery or autopsies.
6. To perform their work, energy healers glide their hands around the outside of the patients body. Where is the science to explain how this works? How does an energy healer know that they are altering something in the patients body? How do they know how to control that alteration? What do they practice on? How are their results measured?
7. Watch energy healers in action on Youtube. One sprinkles fairy dust, another has a machine with blinking lights that spins your chakras (those invisible things we all have). I especially like the one where the woman takes the bad energy and sends it to the core of the earth to be recycled.
8. Another breed of energy healers uses wands that utilize zero point energy (ZPE) to cause your cells to "remember" what it was like to be whole, and then they heal. My research on ZPE lead me to conclude that no one in the scientific community is able to make use of it. Only the multi-level marketing company that sells the wands has been able to harness its vast powers.

For me, the bottom line is that there is no human energy system, therefore, all forms of energy healing are a scam, at best, and the only results they can get are placebo.

Rand
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rand »

Gideon said, "Would you consider these points as substantive?:
1. Energy healing does not involve religion. Faith in Christ is not required. Keeping the commandments is not required. Belief in God is not required.
2. Because of #1, energy healers are not using the "powers of heaven" (D&C 121:34-36; 3 Ne 8:1)
3. When asked for a scientific definition of a "human energy system", energy healers don't have a reply. Without a definition it is impossible to prove that it exists using technology. If no one can prove that it exists, what is the basis for believing in it? Results don't count, unless an energy system (whatever that means) is the only explanation.
4. Kirlian photography, the only claim to science that energy healers attempt, records an aura created by running a low level of electricity through something moist. It does not record something that exists independent of the electrical current.
5. Doctors don't report finding the human energy system while performing surgery or autopsies.
6. To perform their work, energy healers glide their hands around the outside of the patients body. Where is the science to explain how this works? How does an energy healer know that they are altering something in the patients body? How do they know how to control that alteration? What do they practice on? How are their results measured?
7. Watch energy healers in action on Youtube. One sprinkles fairy dust, another has a machine with blinking lights that spins your chakras (those invisible things we all have). I especially like the one where the woman takes the bad energy and sends it to the core of the earth to be recycled.
8. Another breed of energy healers uses wands that utilize zero point energy (ZPE) to cause your cells to "remember" what it was like to be whole, and then they heal. My research on ZPE lead me to conclude that no one in the scientific community is able to make use of it. Only the multi-level marketing company that sells the wands has been able to harness its vast powers.

For me, the bottom line is that there is no human energy system, therefore, all forms of energy healing are a scam, at best, and the only results they can get are placebo."

Gideon, other than expressing a personal prejudice, I don't get your logic. No system of healing including medicine, which I guess you support, meets these criteria(1,2,3) either.
There are actually quite a few studies, books, scientific articles, etc on energy healing. It seems you are referring specifically to approaches like Reiki or Healing Touch. There are some interesting studies on these techniques. I don't use them, but have known people who felt benefit from them.
Do I think the priesthood is the better route? Absolutely! But I think we should cultivate our faith and use it in healing in every situation, both physical, spiritual and emotional.
There are no end to interesting books you can read on these topics. The Holographic Universe, The Dancing Wu Li Masters, The Field, The Body Electric by Robert Becker MD (if that adds credibility), and so many more. There is actually quite a bit of scientific data on the topic.
Do you know what an MRI is? It basically takes pictures based on the energetic or magnetic fluctuations in the body. What does an MD do for a jaundiced child? Applies an energy treatment: full spectrum light.
All matter is energy. The oldest healing arts in the world are best described as "energetic" arts and there are volumes of research to validate them. Study about Qi and the theories that are the foundations of the art of acupuncture. They are deeply profound and based on truths. "For there must needs be an opposition in all things."

There may be some that don't hold much water, and there are a few that go way over the edge for me. But again, broad generalizations don't hold much water.

JohnnyL
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

To me, Gideon, your points are like saying my TV and DVD player don't exist, because I have little clue how either a DVD player or a TV work, and my wife doesn't know, either.

Yet, it is still true that I can follow the simple directions: "hook up, insert, push buttons"--and watch a movie. Just because I can't tell anyone exactly how they work, or even on what principles, it doesn't mean I, nor a child, can watch. And I'm sure a child could be very inventive as to how they work...

So yes, results are absolutely meaningful. That's what statistics and scientific research are all about.

A little science on meridians/ qi channels and more:
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/nord ... trical.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/acum ... ations.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/why-not-heard.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/auto ... cience.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/eav- ... onpack.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Divided Legacy" by Harris Coulter (a historian).

From http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/nord ... trical.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:
"Why I am so impressed with Dr. Nordenström's work: I met Dr. Nordenström in 1987 when he was touring the United States telling doctors about his work... He had discovered there is a difference in the charge of the blood in the arteries compared to blood in the veins. This means that there is a flow of charge between arteries and veins. In physics, when there is a flow of ions along a wire there is also an electromagnetic field generated around the wire. Thus, Dr. Nordenström has established that the human body has an immense network of blood vessel "cables" that are surrounded by electromagnetic fields. It is these fields that I propose hold in place the Hyaluronic Acid molecules that create functional "tubules" (protected zones) inside of which flow ions. This is the flow of ions that is known as "Chi" or "Qi". It only happens when a person is alive, when they die the blood stops flowing, the electromagnetic field disappears, the hyaluronic acid tubules relax and disappear, and no anatomy dissection will ever find an acumeridian tubule in a dead person. (There have been studies where radioactive dye was injected into an acupuncture point and the dye moved up the leg along the traditional line described in acupuncture literature and not along any known blood or lymph vessel.)
Side Note: If you study the career of Dr. Nordenström you will see that after he lectured in the U.S.A. about his research with cancer, he was ignored by the American cancer industry. He announced his discovery of the charge difference in cancer tumors and told doctors and researchers in the U.S. how he was able to make tumors disappear when he hooked up an electrical current and reversed the charge in the tumor. Eventually he went to China and they immediately understood the value of his discovery and began applying it to treating cancer patients.
In 2001, Dr. Björn E.W. Nordenström received the International Scientific and Technological Cooperation Award from the People's Republic of China for his work with cancer. Inaugurated in 1994 by the State Council, the International Scientific and Technological Cooperation Award is granted to foreigners or foreign organizations that have made important contributions to China's scientific and technological advancement. Dr. Nordenström is the first Swedish scientist to receive this award.

I like what Rand wrote: "There may be some that don't hold much water, and there are a few that go way over the edge for me. But again, broad generalizations don't hold much water."

Much of healing--not just energy healing--is so far ahead of mainstream medicine right now. But I don't think that should surprise all the people on this forum.

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