Who does God use to communicate his message?

For Discussion of the Spiritual/Religious side of the Secret Combination. i.e. New Age Movement, Occult, New Spirituality, The Shift, The Secret, The Law of Attraction.

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Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby jeremy_newell » Mon May 03, 2010 12:07 am

I came across the need to do some research on Mormonism a few months ago. Lately the need arose for me to research the origins of another "Bible" called "OAHSPE" containing books that claim to add to the commonly accepted books of the standard Bible (Genesis - Revelation) and I would like to inform everyone of my finding:

This other book "OAHSPE" was written by a man in New York whose life overlapped the life of Joseph Smith. This man consulted many spirit mediums in a search to communicate with "angels". He was used to write this book by these angels without looking at what he was writing. The angels controlled his hands on a typewriter every morning before sunrise for 50 weeks.

NOW MY OBSERVATION IS THIS: It has occurred to me that all the men used by God in the Bible (Genesis - Revelation) were already men of faith upon their becoming prophets & apostles. Yet this man used by "angels" to write "OAHSPE" was a Spiritist, actually being a trustee of the New York Spiritualistic Association. My question is, "Why would God convey anything to someone who is practicing something that is detestable to God (See Deut 18:10-12)". The answer is obvious, "He would not".

I don't see any difference between the man who wrote "OAHSPE" and Joseph Smith & the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was a man who used seeing stones to hunt for treasure. I see it as impossible for God to communicate with such a man. Contrast the men who are writing books that claim to "add to the Bible" with men such as Noah, Job, Moses, Samuel & Daniel (Also see Hebrews Chapter 11) and let it be known that the above observation is not wrong.
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Who does God use to communicate his message?

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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby drjme » Mon May 03, 2010 4:45 am

jeremy_newell wrote:I came across the need to do some research on Mormonism a few months ago. Lately the need arose for me to research the origins of another "Bible" called "OAHSPE" containing books that claim to add to the commonly accepted books of the standard Bible (Genesis - Revelation) and I would like to inform everyone of my finding:

This other book "OAHSPE" was written by a man in New York whose life overlapped the life of Joseph Smith. This man consulted many spirit mediums in a search to communicate with "angels". He was used to write this book by these angels without looking at what he was writing. The angels controlled his hands on a typewriter every morning before sunrise for 50 weeks.

NOW MY OBSERVATION IS THIS: It has occurred to me that all the men used by God in the Bible (Genesis - Revelation) were already men of faith upon their becoming prophets & apostles. Yet this man used by "angels" to write "OAHSPE" was a Spiritist, actually being a trustee of the New York Spiritualistic Association. My question is, "Why would God convey anything to someone who is practicing something that is detestable to God (See Deut 18:10-12)". The answer is obvious, "He would not".
I don't see any difference between the man who wrote "OAHSPE" and Joseph Smith & the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was a man who used seeing stones to hunt for treasure. I see it as impossible for God to communicate with such a man. Contrast the men who are writing books that claim to "add to the Bible" with men such as Noah, Job, Moses, Samuel & Daniel (Also see Hebrews Chapter 11) and let it be known that the above observation is not wrong.


hurray!! you've solved the mystery !! Thank goodness for that.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby p51-mustang » Mon May 03, 2010 9:09 am

oh brother......
"Shiz" Happened. The Book of Mormon is true!
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby kathyn » Mon May 03, 2010 9:12 am

You better read the Book of Mormon before you judge it. Reading anti-Mormon propaganda will never bring you to the truth.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby mattctr » Mon May 03, 2010 10:59 am

jeremy_newell wrote:I see it as impossible for God to communicate with such a man.

Hard to argue with something that is already declared as impossible.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby Jason » Mon May 03, 2010 11:34 am

mattctr wrote:
jeremy_newell wrote:I see it as impossible for God to communicate with such a man.

Hard to argue with something that is already declared as impossible.


I always fascinated when men put limits on God.....and wonder how they manage to function in life!
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby Henmasher » Mon May 03, 2010 11:48 am

Ok I really thought that was a joke. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Jeez they really will let anybody in here!!!
Last edited by Henmasher on Wed May 12, 2010 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby KalelIsbell » Mon May 03, 2010 11:52 am

I don't see any difference between the man who wrote "OAHSPE" and Joseph Smith & the Book of Mormon :shock:


This is not an anti-LDS forum so take your monkey logic and go hang with the other wack-jobs that protest the saints at conference time... :roll:

man you people drive me up a wall, which is exactly what your plan is, so congrates mission accomplished, :twisted:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
The Only Thing Required For Evil To Flourish, Is For Good Men To Do Nothing....
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby Raindrop » Mon May 03, 2010 1:09 pm

I've hunted for treasure. I guess I'm going to hell, too. In fact, I think it's really fun. There's a special hell for people like me! :shock: At least I'm not a pathetic drunk like that Noah fraud. Build an ark... what a kook. :wink:

Before angels, Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus Christ. He didn't desire communications with spirits or angels. He didn't anticipate this answer to his prayer... his mission in life began by his simply asking which church to join. Not even, Hey- How do I start my own church and pull off one of the biggest scams in recent memory and then have a sucky life and die?

Read the book.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby jeremy_newell » Mon May 03, 2010 1:53 pm

Yep, I expected as much in here.

Take care everyone & all the best in finding your "truth". Let me know when you find one of your ancient cities,

-Jeremy
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby jeremy_newell » Mon May 03, 2010 2:10 pm

Jason wrote:
mattctr wrote:
jeremy_newell wrote:I see it as impossible for God to communicate with such a man.

Hard to argue with something that is already declared as impossible.


I always fascinated when men put limits on God.....and wonder how they manage to function in life!


By the way: See Heb 6:18 to find out that "it is impossible for (my) God to lie". Maybe yours can? Also occurs to me that God cannot die, but hey, it's not me putting limitations on God, it's his word that testifies to the truth. Also, going back to my original post how do you think following scripture applies? Pr15:29 "Jehovah is far away from the wicked ones, but the prayer of the righteous ones he hears". Hmmm, I'd say "point made".

I am done wasting my time.
All the best,

-Jeremy
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby drjme » Mon May 03, 2010 2:43 pm

jeremy_newell wrote:
By the way: See Heb 6:18 to find out that "it is impossible for (my) God to lie". Maybe yours can? Also occurs to me that God cannot die, but hey, it's not me putting limitations on God, it's his word that testifies to the truth. Also, going back to my original post how do you think following scripture applies? Pr15:29 "Jehovah is far away from the wicked ones, but the prayer of the righteous ones he hears". Hmmm, I'd say "point made".

I am done wasting my time.
All the best,

-Jeremy


O righteous one, don't 'waste your time' on the 'lost and wicked', only those that love you and will give you hi fives and back rubs for your astute observations that, let it be known, are not wrong.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby Henmasher » Mon May 03, 2010 3:11 pm

Hey I want a backrub. Didn't you know Joseph Smith was John the Baptist reincarnate????
OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhha little lower :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby DrJones » Mon May 03, 2010 5:20 pm

JEREMY, if you can ignore the unfortunate mocking -- I would urge you to read the Book of Mormon for yourself prayerfully. Then come back if you will and let us know what you found.

If you sincerely are seeking the truth, you will find it in the Book of Mormon along with the Bible.

Best wishes,
Dr. Steven Jones
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby jsk » Mon May 03, 2010 6:28 pm

Well said Dr. Jones...

Jeremy...there is a challenge in the Book of Mormon to read it and then ask Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, to know if it is true. Don't take anyone's word for it...take up the challenge. If you sincerely desire to know the truth, and are willing to change your life if the truth is revealed to you, you will receive a witness, by the Holy Ghost, of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, and will further receive a testimony of Joseph Smith as the prophet who restored the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the latter days.

Believe me...I'm as skeptical a person as you will ever find, but I know the LDS Church is true, because it was revealed to me by the Holy Ghost, as it is revealed to any honest seeker of the truth.

I wish you blessings and peace, regardless of the path you choose to walk...
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby mattctr » Mon May 03, 2010 8:14 pm

Jeremy,
The first time I remember knowing that God was in the heavens was at about 5 years of age. Lying down on my back in a grassy field. I was watching billowy white clouds roll through a blue summer sky. It was beautiful. I had been there for several minutes, when all of a sudden I felt a Divine warmth envelope me and whisper gently to my young soul: "You are my son; I am your Father in Heaven. I love you." This communication did not come through the church; it did not come through intellectual pursuit or reason; it came from God, through His Spirit to my little spirit.

The years have pressed on. Weakness, sin, learning, and the adversary's endless buffetings have left my thinking very clouded at times, but I still am able to enjoy a beautiful, direct link to the Divine - a grace that no doubt is far richer a blessing than I could ever feel worthy to receive of myself. The Lord is God! He lives! He still governs the Heavens! And, He still loves me and lets me know it!

Joseph Smith Jr., despite his mortal shortcomings (Although, he said he had many, I dare say he had fewer than most.), was placed on this earth as a dispensation head, much like select prophets of old (Noah, Moses, etc.), to oversee the restoration of all things and prepare the Earth in this last dispensation for the triumphant return of the Lord Jesus Christ! He was chosen by God and for God's purposes. His short life and all he accomplished in that small window of time stands as an absolute witness of Divine grace to the whole human family. Rather than focusing on minutia, take in the miraculous whole of a life whose impact on humanity will only become greater, as the years go by. Joseph Smith, Jr. is a modern witness of Jesus Christ, and since his short time on earth has passed, countless members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints have enjoyed a rich abundance of blessings that were promised by all the holy prophets down through the ages due in part to his willingness to follow the Lord's direction.

There is so much waiting for those who will look beyond the surface debate; Look heavenward and thereby receive direction from on high. Angels visit the Earth today - they visit OFTEN and they visit MANY! Jesus, our resurrected Lord, still communes and walks among men in His holy house today! Visions and revelations of truth, so bright and glorious that they cannot be denied are prevalent in our day! God reveals Himself to the child and parent alike. The True Priesthood and Power of of God unto men is active on the earth today, raising the dead, healing the sick, and working many miracles in the lives of the faithful (I am the descendant of a family who joined this church after visions and dreams led them to Elders who came and raised a dead child (my relative) from the grave with the command: "Arise!")

You can ignore, discount, rationalize, or do whatever else you need to in order to set aside this matter and go on contented in whatever mindset you choose, but as one who by grace alone has enjoyed far more privilege with the Spirit and the Divine than I could ever deserve of my own nothingness, I offer you my sincerest testimony that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, visited the boy Joseph Smith Jr. and called him to be their prophet, the latter-day restorer of whom ancient prophets have testified. I invite you study the life and words (especially the Book of Mormon) brought about by the hand of this man and then, in all humility of soul, with a broken heart and contrite spirit, ask the Lord, God to witness of their origin. Then, be still, calm the clutter of the mind, and allow the whispering of His spirit to speak.

Jeremy, the devil wants you to write all of this off by saying, "Joseph (and I) have been deceived by the devil appearing as an angel of light." To that I add this witness: Once you have felt the sweet assurance of God's spirit, walked with His holy angels, and caught even a tiny glimpse into the Eternities, the deceitful "light" that Lucifer can muster up, though momentarily striking, is soon recognized for what it is: dark and unimpressive... There is no comparison, my friend. The Glory of God is brighter and holier than mortal eye or mind can see or comprehend. Only in the spirit can you hope to withstand it. The Lord lives, and He is preparing the Earth to receive Him! May you life be filled with His peace and happiness. I want nothing for me that I do not also want for you. I encourage you to look heavenward and hear the voice of the God calling to you: "You are my son; I am your Father in Heaven. I love you."



P.S. - I am sorry for my earlier unkind reply. I ask your forgiveness.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby LukeAir2008 » Mon May 03, 2010 9:17 pm

Anyone would think that some of us maybe aren't so sure of our own testimonies when we can't handle someone questioning our beliefs? :?

Remember Joseph said he wouldn't have believed his own story if he hadn't experienced it himself! :D
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby Henmasher » Tue May 04, 2010 7:22 am

I would never assume it is a matter of the strength of someones testimony. My testimony is rock hard according to me and yes, I get excited when people show up here begin to question sound doctrine to me. May we understand that the previous people to come in here criticizing doctrine have had pretty clear intent to cause problems or create chaos in others beliefs? I.e. my God verses your God :idea:
Jeremy, If you are sincere, I did not expect someone seeking truth or understanding like you have here. Most here have sound understanding of the "basic" doctrines of the LDS church and I indeed ridiculed where I could have enlightened. I am sorry and as the others have said, please read the book of Mormon and let the Spirit talk to your spirit. It is the purest form of communication and you will feel the truth of the book. :D
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby LukeAir2008 » Tue May 04, 2010 7:37 am

jeremy_newell wrote:I came across the need to do some research on Mormonism a few months ago. Lately the need arose for me to research the origins of another "Bible" called "OAHSPE" containing books that claim to add to the commonly accepted books of the standard Bible (Genesis - Revelation) and I would like to inform everyone of my finding:

This other book "OAHSPE" was written by a man in New York whose life overlapped the life of Joseph Smith. This man consulted many spirit mediums in a search to communicate with "angels". He was used to write this book by these angels without looking at what he was writing. The angels controlled his hands on a typewriter every morning before sunrise for 50 weeks.

NOW MY OBSERVATION IS THIS: It has occurred to me that all the men used by God in the Bible (Genesis - Revelation) were already men of faith upon their becoming prophets & apostles. Yet this man used by "angels" to write "OAHSPE" was a Spiritist, actually being a trustee of the New York Spiritualistic Association. My question is, "Why would God convey anything to someone who is practicing something that is detestable to God (See Deut 18:10-12)". The answer is obvious, "He would not".

I don't see any difference between the man who wrote "OAHSPE" and Joseph Smith & the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was a man who used seeing stones to hunt for treasure. I see it as impossible for God to communicate with such a man. Contrast the men who are writing books that claim to "add to the Bible" with men such as Noah, Job, Moses, Samuel & Daniel (Also see Hebrews Chapter 11) and let it be known that the above observation is not wrong.


Ok Jeremy, I understand your concerns and your questions. Are you still ready to have an exchange?

First question: Are you sincere? If the LDS church is the true church could you accept that or are you so entrenched in your own belief system that you don't really care what is true? :D
The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby Raindrop » Tue May 04, 2010 7:55 am

Or think... What is your gut reaction to the question:

"What if it's true?"

Shock? Disgust? Panic?

Sometimes our mental state can hinder our ability to accept ... new ideas.

Something about this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has you thinking about it, wondering about it and not leaving it alone. You've come to a (mostly) LDS website and posted here, ready to have an exchange. I say you should follow these feelings and see where they lead you. :idea: If there were nothing to it, why the focus?
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby drjme » Tue May 04, 2010 6:03 pm

jeremy_newell wrote:Yep, I expected as much in here.

Take care everyone & all the best in finding your "truth". Let me know when you find one of your ancient cities,

-Jeremy


haha I like you, you've got a good sense of humour. I've been in Q&A with quite a few people online like you and have actually ended up having quite good conversation once we got over the initial "I'm here to deliver you from mormonism" stage, and ended up with a great outcome, both sides learning a lot. I'll just post my PM on here in reply to yours instead of typing out the same stuff again:

I've had this conversation with so many people that think they've stumbled upon a new secret that exposes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints as false. Here's what I recommend you do. Lose the notion of trying to prove mormonism wrong. Have an open mind and an absolute trust in God, and ask Him to reveal truth to you as you study these things (namely the book of mormon). If you're heart is completely open and trusting in His wisdom (not in your personal interpretation of scripture and trying to prove that LDS belief is false). He will reveal to you with a shadow of doubt if it is true or if it isn't. If you find out it isn't for real, no biggie, nothing lost. but if it is? what will you be missing out on? Know that He can communicate directly to your soul and actually tell you what you need to know, not some fuzzy warm feeling, or sudden enlightenment, but by an experience undeniable.

The first step to helping someone is understanding where they are at, at their level, not judging them. Do this, people will talk to you and have quality discussions about your findings and questions you may have, to help you understand our beliefs better.

No need to be on your way, just lose the 'pity on you mormons and 'your' God' type attitude. It is condescending and annoying. then maybe we could talk openly and with respect to each other.

regards

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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby jeremy_newell » Tue May 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Alright,

I can do this. Guess I got my back up when my first post was pummeled.
I really appreciate the few posts from people who have given me a reality check. I have cannon-balled into the pool when everyone was just lying back on their floating chairs enjoying the sun.

Apologies to everyone.

But it is true that I am highly skeptical of many basic LDS doctrine. I don't want to name anything in particular. Perhaps people could just let me know the reasoning behind the typical doctrines that cause people to stumble at first.

& Yes, it is very important that I as well as you, choose to do what is true (John 8:32). Too many people choose to serve a God that suits them, but I would much rather serve the true God (whoever he is) an listen to his requirements. Why? Because he is God & knows what I need better than I do (Isa 48:17,18).

Thanks everyone. I will continue to watch & reply to reasonable comments.
Best Regards,

-Jeremy
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby ready2prepare » Tue May 04, 2010 9:59 pm

jeremy_newell wrote:
I am done wasting my time.
All the best,

-Jeremy

Q. Who does God use to communicate
his message?

A. People who don't waste His time.

All the best,
Sharon in Mississippi
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby LukeAir2008 » Wed May 05, 2010 12:34 am

jeremy_newell wrote:Alright,

I can do this. Guess I got my back up when my first post was pummeled.
I really appreciate the few posts from people who have given me a reality check. I have cannon-balled into the pool when everyone was just lying back on their floating chairs enjoying the sun.

Apologies to everyone.

But it is true that I am highly skeptical of many basic LDS doctrine. I don't want to name anything in particular. Perhaps people could just let me know the reasoning behind the typical doctrines that cause people to stumble at first.

& Yes, it is very important that I as well as you, choose to do what is true (John 8:32). Too many people choose to serve a God that suits them, but I would much rather serve the true God (whoever he is) an listen to his requirements. Why? Because he is God & knows what I need better than I do (Isa 48:17,18).

Thanks everyone. I will continue to watch & reply to reasonable comments.
Best Regards,

-Jeremy


Hi Jeremy,

Its good that you have come back to the forum and I hope that you and I can have a good honest discussion on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I apologise for any abusive comments or sarcastic remarks made by others. Please don't be put off by that. I have often got heated up or defensive over issues which Im passionate about. (Just read some of my comments on other posts! :lol: ) And maybe there is an element of fear or threat felt by some who are maybe worried that comments made by a non-Latter Day Saint might cause them to wobble or doubt a little bit. Im sure they all mean well and welcome you to this forum.

I notice Sharon got one last little dig in so maybe we can draw a line under that but don't hold your breath. :wink:

As a fellow Christian I hope you can forgive us of our weaknesses and imperfections. Even though we love the Lord and seek to do his will we are a long way from being perfect. :D

Just a little bit about my own spiritual journey. I accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour at a Luis Palau crusade when I was 18 years old.
I attended different mainstream christian churches - Baptist, Presbyterian, Penetcostal etc. for a while and then eventually came into contact with two LDS missionaries. I invited them into my home to witness to them about Christ. To my shock and surprize they already knew about Christ and had accepted Him as their Saviour and taken his name upon them - both spiritually and literally - they even had name tags with his name emblazoned across them! :wink:

Anyway, after weeks of discussion and study, I came to the the conclusion that yes, of course, Christ is my Lord and Saviour, but that this Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is his authorized church, founded and organized by him personally. I made the decision to be baptized by immersion for the remission of sins, as directed by Peter in Acts 2:38, and have been a Latter Day Saint since that time. :D
The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby Jason » Wed May 05, 2010 1:26 pm

jeremy_newell wrote:Alright,

I can do this. Guess I got my back up when my first post was pummeled.
I really appreciate the few posts from people who have given me a reality check. I have cannon-balled into the pool when everyone was just lying back on their floating chairs enjoying the sun.

Apologies to everyone.

But it is true that I am highly skeptical of many basic LDS doctrine. I don't want to name anything in particular. Perhaps people could just let me know the reasoning behind the typical doctrines that cause people to stumble at first.

& Yes, it is very important that I as well as you, choose to do what is true (John 8:32). Too many people choose to serve a God that suits them, but I would much rather serve the true God (whoever he is) an listen to his requirements. Why? Because he is God & knows what I need better than I do (Isa 48:17,18).

Thanks everyone. I will continue to watch & reply to reasonable comments.
Best Regards,

-Jeremy


No worries mate! We have all done it a time or two...additions on the latter for me! Frankly I enjoy cannonballs (my kids dig'em too!) until after 30 or 45 minutes when my eyes are bloodshot red and my ears are pounding!
Tares grow with the wheat for a season - your job is to not be a tare
What we do in life echoes an eternity
When it starts raining - its too late to begin building the ark

SEPIUS EXERTUS, SEMPER FIDELIS, FRATERS INFINITAS
MOLON LABE - NON TIMEBO MALA
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby 2BFree » Wed May 05, 2010 8:22 pm

jeremy_newell wrote:Alright,

But it is true that I am highly skeptical of many basic LDS doctrine. I don't want to name anything in particular. Perhaps people could just let me know the reasoning behind the typical doctrines that cause people to stumble at first.

-Jeremy


May be you can provide a few of these issues and doctrines that you feel may be a stumbling block for non-LDS such as yourself so we can respond appropriately. We are very eager to assist anyone who desires to know the truth about the latter-day restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Sorry about getting off on the wrong foot here but we are all anxious to help especially someone who is sincere in their desires to understand.
“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” - George Washington
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby pritchet1 » Wed May 05, 2010 10:13 pm

A similar thing happened on my mission in Burbank, CA back in 1975-1977. An anti-crowd gathered at the former club-house turned-Stake-center and these folks would show up with their plackards and posters and anti-Mormon literature week after week. Finally the group of missionaries descended on this band and challenged the leader to fast and pray for one week and for him to read the Book of Mormon. I was there and witnessed him taking that challenge.

He felt the correct Spirit and corrected his life. His home was filled floor to rafter with anti-Mormon literature and he said that he had invested so much into this stuff, now what was he to do? A wise missionary said he could donate it to the Smithsonian and allow it to join the wing dedicated to Anti-Mormon literature already there. :idea:

He did get baptized. It was a joy to see him change from hate to love. By the way, the ever-present anti-crowd disappeared. They always do when the Light of Christ shines on souls. I so testify.

Oh, to answer the original question: God uses us to communicate His message. How we live, act and help each other gets the message across. The scriptures have excellent examples of how to handle difficult and stressful situations and how strong Faith made manifest miracles. The Book of Mormon obviously was given to us so we could prepare for today and how we can seek and obtain Freedom even under the current regime in the USSA.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby LukeAir2008 » Thu May 06, 2010 12:46 pm

Jeremy,

God uses Prophets to communicate his messages. Unfortunately there are no perfect humans so he has to work with what he's got.

Moses is a great example of an imperfect man whom the Lord chose to represent him.

Moses killed an Egyptian who was being cruel to the Hebrews. He then fled to Midian to escape the wrath of Pharoah. The Lord knew Moses' heart and chose him to represent him and lead the children of Israel out of Egypt. Moses did the will of the Lord and became a great Prophet. :D
The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby LukeAir2008 » Thu May 06, 2010 1:14 pm

Or there was Peter the Apostle. Peter had been a fisherman and along with his brother Andrew was the first man to be called by the Lord as an Apostle.
The Lord recognized Peter as the Senior Apostle and gave him the Keys of the Kingdom. On the night of the Lord's arrest Peter attacked Malchus and cut off his ear. Later that night Peter denied knowing Christ three times. The Lord still recognized Peter as an Apostle and forgave him. Peter went on to be a great Apostle who lead the church and received revelation to enable the Gospel to be taken to the Gentiles. He died as a martyr being crucified upside down. :D

Compared with murder, slicing people up and denying the Lord - Joseph Smith's boyhood treasure seeking seems like a minor indiscretion! :D
The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.
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Re: Who does God use to communicate his message?

Postby jeremy_newell » Thu May 06, 2010 1:20 pm

Answer to 2BFree.

The following might seem anti-mormon, but they are just my concerns when trying to wrap my head around the Book of Mormon and it's teachings.
These are things I've seen or read on TV or on the Internet (in no particular order):

1. Well, I watched a PBS special on the Mormon Church about a month ago & I was quite confused about the baptism of the dead. I really thought that "the wages sin pays is death" -Rom6:23 & therefore death is the price paid for sin & after death one would be acquitted of his sins & await resurrection. I thought Baptism is supposed to be a conscious & personal decision.

2. Also I don't understand how the LDS teaches that Jesus is God, when 1Tim 3:3-4 (NIV) says "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". Also see Mtt 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." & Mark 15:34 "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?". + John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

3. I read a doctrine that it was God's design for Adam & Eve to sin so that they could have babies & populate the earth. The Normal Bible says that Adam & Eve sinned, not when they had children, but when they listened to the serpent & disobeyed God by eating from the tree of the knowledge of good & bad (Rom 5:12-14 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.")

4. I can't find where I read it, but I remember that the Book of Mormon teaches that Lucifer didn't become Satan or an opposer of God until God ordered the angels to worship Adam, but Lucifer refused saying something like "I'm not going to bow down, he is not greater than me". I know this isn't really a question, but anyhow I thought God is a jealous God and humans are otherwise instructed to worship only him. It seams contradictory for God to instruct humans to worship only him, yet tell the angels to worship man. -Forgive me if I've got this mixed up with another religion. I have studied many religions & sometimes the lines are blurred.

I hope to get some answers, as these are primary questions to me.
Thanks Everyone,

-Jeremy

P.S.: Thanks Benjamin for the recent posts. The last sentence of your second post, really makes for a good point.
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