Word of Wisdom - Meat (sparingly???)

[nutmeg]

I spent four years as a vegetarian/ near vegan, and then kind of fell off the wagon for a couple of years and watched my heath get worse and worse (throw in a pregnancy and an emergency c-section and life was pretty tough there for a while). I recently discovered two amazing books that corroborate what most on this thread are saying, and I'm recommending them to everyone I know. I think you guys would like them!

But first, as to the age old vegetarian or not discussion and all the scientific facts that are being thrown around to argue one side or the other I have to say this: after extensive reading on both sides, I feel that "scientific" studies can basically "prove" anything. After getting really frustrated I decided that I had better go with the Spirit and rely on the arm of the Lord instead of the arm of science and doctors and annoying tv personalities. The two books that I've recently discovered are both written by Mormons, and while of course being applicable to everyone, have a wonderful, spiritual slant that really helps when you are trying to get healthy. The first one is called "Original Fast Foods" by James and Colleen Simmons and the second one is called, hilariously enough, "Dr. Bridell's Logical and Rational and Poetic and Beautiful and Completely Guaranteed Eat-Half Diet for all Your Appetites." Crazy I know. The title is obviously tongue in cheek. Sort of. Anyways, the first book is wonderful and is based mainly on what the Prophet Daniel ate and the word of wisdom. I would categorize it as nearly vegan. The second book doesn't actually spend a lot of time on the specifics of what to eat, except a little chapter on the word of wisdom at the back of the book, but instead is all about brideling our appetites like it says to do in the scriptures. The two combined have helped me lose over 20 pounds of baby weight, and I hope, are helping to heal my post-surgery body in preparation for future pregnancies. I had the wonderful experience of praying about this diet as opposed to one that a supposedly "natural" doctor was recommending which was pretty high in protein along with vegetables, and I had the unmistakable answer that I should follow the scriptural diet instead. I have to say, it helps your will power immensely when you feel like it's a commandment from Heavenly Father!

Not that I haven't had a few stumbles. Sigh. But I'm getting better and better and I try to forgive myself and move on. It does help that my husband is trying to do it also! When people ask me what I'm doing I laugh and call it my "Millenial Diet" as in, this is what we will all eat in the Millenium!! Basically beans and rice and salad galore. We're also thinking of joining a CSA (we have a very small garden as that is all there is room for in our landlord's yard but it's not enough to sustain us) and trying to live on that and food storage items this summer.

In addition to the over 20 lbs lost, I've noticed a major improvement in my digestive health and a slow improvement in my quality of sleep. And yet I have lots more energy even though I still don't get enough sleep!

Last but not least, Gman007, I've recently discovered a slightly healthier version of ice cream that you might try. It's still rather high in calories but if you eat it in moderation (and it's expensive, so that helps!) you might find room for it in your diet. It's made with coconut milk and no sugar but agave nectar. There are a couple of different versions in the natural food section of the regular store, or the natural food store, but the one I found is called Coconut Bliss.

[nutmeg]

oh yeah! and I've totally discovered sprouting, which is super duper good for you and cheap and kinda fun. which reminds me, I'd better go rinse my sprouts.

My husband says that I should clarify that while I'm nearly vegan most of the time, I should say that I eat salmon about once a week, and sometimes when I'm feeling all super low-iron like women do sometimes, ahem, I might splash out on a little red meat. And I fully expect that some of my needs will change a bit when I do get pregnant again although I sincerely hope not very much. I do think there is a reason that HF left a little wiggle room in the WofW so I don't advocate super strict vegetarianism. Also, when you do have the very occasional bits of meat, you cover your b-12 base, so that works out. I also don't enjoy being the annoying person who can't eat anything that people serve you when you go to their house, so I try to just pick and choose and not eat too much of the SAD (Standard American Diet) stuff, but allow for most of my "cheating" to happen at other people's houses!

[Moss Man]

I've become a sparingly meat-eater. After seeing how inhumane factory farming is, I won't touch mainstream (i.e. Tyson's, Foster Farms, etc.) meat. I'm not 100% vegan but am trying.

If you don't prepare your own food you will almost always (from what I've seen) be eating some form of animal or dairy. It is almost impossible to be a vegetarian and eat out because most foods are "laced" with animal products like cheese, milk or meat (animal flesh). Even authentic Mexican food has lard.

I'm waiting for the day we overcome the bland lessons on tobacco and drugs (why keep the emphasis on things kids are being taught in school) and add this discussion to the lesson. I think the two keys to Section 89 are that it is 1) adapted and 2) a defense against the evil designs (combinations?) of men. If it is an adaptation then what does the full and complete version of the law of health include? Maybe it would include GMOs and hydrogenated oils.

[nutmeg]

Moss man, you totally reminded me of something else I've been gaining a testimony in. When we talk about preparing for the second coming we should also be preparing our health (ie:gettin as healthy as possible) and our knowledge of health for the trials of the second coming. I guess that's why I call it my Millenial Diet. Because I'm also trying to prepare for the Millenium. When I think about a possible pandemic, I wonder if being as healthy as possible, and using faith and the WofW will help protect us, and not just boxes full of latex gloves and antiseptic (I'm sure those will be helpful too, don't get me wrong...). This scripture in particular stands out to me and seems to be talking about the last days, at least to my mind:


D&C 89: 21
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

[Toto]

Nutmeg - Loved that post!

This post is dedicated to you and your “Millenial Diet”

Lets get busy healing - and helping others to heal, as well!

DISCOURSES OF BRIGHAM YOUNG.

Excerpts

Pages 115-116

The Millennium - The Millennium consists in this - every heart in the Church and Kingdom of God being united in one; the Kingdom increasing to the overcoming of everything opposed to the economy of heaven, and Satan being bound, and having a seal set upon him. All things else will be as they are now, we shall eat, drink, and wear clothing. 1:203.
When all nations are so subdued to Jesus that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess, there will still be millions on the earth who will not believe in him; but they will be obliged to acknowledge his kingly government. 7:142.
Let the people be holy, and the earth under their feet will be holy. Let the people be holy, and filled with the Spirit of God, and every animal and creeping thing will be filled with peace; the soil of the earth will bring forth in its strength, and the fruits thereof will be meat for man. The more purity that exists, the less is the strife;the more kind we are to our animals, the more will peace increase, and the savage nature of the brute creation vanish away. If the people will not serve the Devil another moment whilst they live, if this congregation is possessed of that spirit and resolution, here in this house is the Millennium. Let the inhabitants of this city be possessed of that spirit, let the people of the territory be possessed of that spirit, and here is the Millennium. Let the whole people of the United States be possessed of that spirit and here is the Millennium, and so will it spread over all the world. 1:203.
Page 186
The Word Of Wisdom - If you observe faithfully the Word of Wisdom, you will have your dollar, your five dollars, your hundred dollars, yea, you will have your hundreds of dollars to spend for that which will be useful and profitable to you. Why should we continue to practice in our lives those pernicious habits that have already sapped the foundation of the human constitution, and shortened the life of man to that degree that a generation passes away in the brief period of from twenty-seven to twenty-nine years? The strength, power, beauty and glory that once adorned that form and constitution of man have vanished away before the blighting influences of inordinate appetite and love of this world. The health and power and beauty that once adorned the noble form of man must again be restored to our race; and God designs that we shall engage in this great work of restoration. Then let us not trifle with our mission, by indulging in the use of injurious substances. These lay the foundation of disease and death in the systems of men, and the same are committed to their children, and another generation of feeble human beings is introduced into the world. Such children have insufficient bone, sinew, muscle, and constitution, and are of little use to themselves, or to their fellow creatures; they are not prepared for life. 12:118.
Pages 187-193
The fathers and mothers have laid the foundation for many of these diseases, from generation to generation, until the people are reduced to their present condition. True, some live to from fifty to ninety years of age, but it is an unusual circumstance to see a man an hundred years old, or a woman ninety. The people have laid the foundation of short life through their diet, their rest, their labor, and their doing this, that, and the other in a wrong manner, with improper motives, and at improper times. 2:269.
You, mothers and daughters in Israel, who are taking this course, how do you expect to live to accomplish the work the Lord has assigned you? You get up in the morning and have your cup of tea, your fried ham, your cold beef and mince pies, and everything you can possibly cram into the stomach, until you surfeit the system and lay the foundation for disease and earthly death. Says the mother - "Do eat, my little daughter, you are sick; take a piece of pie, toast, or meat, or drink a little tea or coffee; you must take something or other." Mothers in Israel, such a course engenders disease, and you are laying a foundation that will cut off one-half or two-thirds of the lives of your children. 12:37.
Eating for Health - Instead of doing two days' work in one day, wisdom would dictate to our sisters, and to every other person, that if they desire long life and good health, they must, after sufficient exertion, allow the body to rest before it is entirely exhausted. When exhausted, some argue that they need stimulants in the shape of tea, coffee, spirituous liquors, tobacco, or some of those narcotic substances which are often taken to goad on the lagging powers to greater exertions. But instead of these kind of stimulants they should recruit by rest. Work less, wear less, eat less, and we shall be a great deal wiser, healthier, and wealthier people than by taking the course we now do. It is difficult to find anything more healthy to drink than good cold water, such as flows down to us from springs and snows of our mountains. This is the beverage we should drink. It should be our drink at all times. If we constantly drink even malt liquor made from our barley and wheat, our health would be injured more or less thereby. It may be remarked that some men who use spirituous liquors and tobacco are healthy, but I argue that they would be much more healthy if they did not use it, and then they are entitled to the blessings promised to those who observe the advice given in the "Word of Wisdom." Some few persons who have been addicted to the use of hot drinks, etc., have reached the age of eighty, eighty-three, and eighty-four years, but h they not been addicted to such habits of living they might have reached the age of an hundred or an hundred and five years. 12:122.
I do not mean to go without food and go to fasting. This is the other extreme. A sufficient amount of food that will agree with the stomach is healthy, and should be partaken of. Aged or middle aged, youth or children, never should go without food until their stomachs are faint, demanding something to sustain their systems, and continue to undergo this; for this lays the foundation of weakness, and this weakness will tempt disease. But keep the stomach in a perfectly healthy condition. Now I do not mean fasting, but eating moderately; and if my sisters will go home and commence to adopt this rule, you will find that you begin to get better, your children and neighbors will get better. We do not expect all to be free from sickness. I have had a great deal of sickness in my life. I do not expect to be free from ills, the weakness, debility and disease that prey upon the human family, but we can amend our ways, and amend our life by being prudent; and I wish the sisters to understand this, and to adopt these instructions. 19:68.
The citizens of this city are tolerably comfortable; a great many of them have an abundance of fruit, and they enjoy it. It is very healthy for them and their children to eat in the season thereof. 11:141.
As we got richer and built warm houses, and have lived more richly, indulging in sweet cake, plum pudding, roast beef and so on, we have had more or less disease among us. 13:142.
Go into their houses and you will find beef, pork, apple pie, custard pie, pumpkin pie, mince pie, and every luxury, and they live so as to shorten their days and the days of their children. You may think that these things are not of much importance; no more they are, unless they are observed, but let the people observe them and they lay the foundation for longevity, and they will begin to live out their days, not only a hundred years, but, by and by, hundreds of years on the earth. Do you think they will stuff themselves then with tea and coffee, and perhaps with a little brandy sling before breakfast and a little before going to bed, and then beef, pork, mutton, sweet meats, and pastry, morning, noon and night? No; you will find they will live as our first parents did, on fruits and on a little simple food, and they will never overload the stomach. 12:37.
Suppose I happen to say, "Come, wife, let us have a good dinner today;" what does she get? Pork and beef boiled, stewed, roasted, and fried potatoes, onions, cabbage and turnips, custard, eggs, pies of all kinds, cheese and sweet meats. 2:269 .
A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine's flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments ...(*1)... Who hinders you from cultivating fruit of every variety that will flourish in the different parts of this Territory? There has not been a day through the whole winter that I have not had fresh peaches, and plenty of apples and strawberries. Who hinders any person in this community from having these different kinds of food in their families? ..(*2)...if we except vegetables and fruit, and with them will become a very wholesome diet. 12:192.
When we go on a trip to the settlements and stop at the brethren's houses, it is, "Brother Brigham, let us manifest our feelings towards you and your company." I tell them to do so, but give me a piece of Johnny-cake; I would rather have it than their pies and tarts and sweet meats. Let me have something that will sustain nature and leave my stomach and whole system clear to receive the Spirit of the Lord and be free from headache and pains of every kind.
The Americans, as a nation, are killing themselves with their vices and high living. As much as a man ought to eat in half an hour they swallow in three minutes, gulping down their food like the canine quadruped under the table, which, when a chunk of meat is thrown down to it, swallows it before you can say "twice." If you want a reform, carry out the advice I have just given you. Dispense with your multitudinous dishes, and, depend upon it, you will do much towards preserving your families from sickness, disease and death.
If this method were adopted in this community, I will venture to say that it would add ten years to the lives of our children. That is worth a great deal. 13:153-154.
If the days of man are to begin to return, we must cease all extravagant living. When men live to the age of a tree, their food will be fruit. Mothers, to produce offspring full of life and days, must cease drinking liquor, tea, and coffee, that their systems may be free from bad effects. If every woman in this Church will now cease drinking tea, coffee, liquor, and all other powerful stimulants, and live upon vegetables, etc., not many generations will pass away before the days of man will again return. But it will take generations to eradicate entirely the influences of deleterious substances. 8:63.
Living Out-of-Doors - People need not be afraid of living out-of-doors, nor sleeping out-of-doors. This country is much healthier than the lowlands in the States, or than many places in the Old World. 4:92.
Good pure air is the greatest sustainer of animal life. Other elements of life we can dispense with for a time, but this seems to be essential every moment; hence the necessity of well ventilated dwelling-houses, especially the rooms occupied for sleeping. You can live without water and food longer than you can without air, and water is of more importance than meat and bread. 8:168.
The out-door air is what the people need for health, it is good for them to camp out. Close houses are injurious to the health; if our houses were every one of them leveled to the ground, and we were obliged to live in our wagons and tents, the people would be healthier, from year to year, than they are now. Good houses are comfortable and very convenient, and please our feelings, and are tolerably healthful when properly ventilated. 2:284.
What gives the people colds and makes them sick? You hear many say, "I had not had a cold this fall until I came into our new house." Brethren and sisters that have come into the city from living in the canyons, and those who have arrived from the States this season, have not been troubled with colds until they came into warm houses; that gives them colds, by depriving their lungs of the benefit they are organized to receive from the atmosphere. 4:91.
We should have plenty of pure, fresh air. If children are kept in close bedrooms, they become puny and weakly. Let them sleep where they can have abundance of pure air, in well-ventilated rooms, or out-of-doors, in the summer time, in a safe place; it will be most beneficial for their health. 12:218.
Exercise and Mental Vigor - Do you know that it is your privilege so to live that your minds may all the time be perfectly within your control? Study to preserve your bodies in life and health, and you will be able to control your minds. 8:135.
My mind becomes tired, and perhaps some of yours do. If so, go and exercise your bodies. 6:148.
In the eastern country there was a man who used to go crazy, at times, and then come to his senses again. One of his neighbors asked him what made him go crazy; he replied, "I get to thinking, and thinking, until finally I think so far that I am not always able to think back again." Can you think too much for the spirit which is put in the tabernacle? You can, and this is a subject which I wish the brethren instructed upon, and the people to understand. The spirit is the intelligent part of man, and is intimately connected with the tabernacle. Let this intelligent part labor to excess, and it will eventually overcome the tabernacle, the equilibrium will be destroyed, and the whole organization deranged. Many people have deranged themselves by thinking too much.
The thinking part is the immortal or invisible portion, and it is that which performs the mental labor; then the tabernacle, which is formed and organized for that express purpose, brings about or effects the result of that mental labor. Let the body work with the mind, and let them both labor fairly together, and, with but few exceptions, you will have a strong-minded, athletic individual, powerful both physically and mentally.
When you find the thinking faculty perfectly active, in a healthy person, it should put the physical organization into active operation, and the result of the reflection is carried out, and the object is accomplished. In such a person you will see mental and physical health and strength combined, in their perfection. 3:247.
As for health, it is far healthier to walk than to ride, and better every way for the people. 4:103.
Many persons are so constituted, that if you put them in a parlor, keep a good fire for them, furnish them tea, cake, sweet meats, etc., and nurse them tenderly, soaking their feet, and putting them to bed, they will die in a short time; but throw them into snow banks, and they will live a great many years. Brother Heywood would have been in his grave long ago, if he had not led an out-door life, and such is the case with others; but he is again here, and we have the privilege of seeing him. 4:295.
Physiological Differences - The study and practice of anatomy and surgery are very good; they are mechanical, and are frequently needed. Do you not think it is necessary to give medicine sometimes? Yes, I can see the faces of this congregation, but I do not see two alike; and if I could look into your nervous systems and behold the operations of disease, from the crowns of your heads to the soles of your feet, I should behold the same difference that I see in your physiognomy - there would be no two precisely alike. Doctors make experiments, and if they find a medicine that will have the desired effect on one person, they set it down that it is good for everybody, but it is not so, for upon the second person that medicine is administered to, seemingly with the same disease, it might produce death. If you do not know this, you have not had the experience that I have. I say that unless a man or woman who administers medicine to assist the human system to overcome disease, understands, and has that intuitive knowledge, by the Spirit, that such an article is good for that individual at that very time, they had better let him alone. Let the sick do without eating, take a little of something to cleanse the stomach, bowels and blood, and wait patiently, and let nature have time to gain the advantage over the disease. 15:225.
Feeding Children - Now, mothers, if you want to do good, do not let your sons and daughters drink either tea or coffee, while under your protection. 11:352.
Some mothers, when bearing children, long for tea and coffee, or for brandy and other strong drinks, and if they give way to that influence the next time they will want more, and the next still more, and thus lay the foundation for drunkenness in their offspring. An appetite is engendered, bred, and born in the child, and it is a miracle if it does not grow up a confirmed drunkard. 2:270.
Infants, children, youth, young men, and young women, thousands and tens of thousands of them, go to an untimely grave through the diseases engendered in their systems by their progenitors. 13:276.
Sisters, will you take notice, and instruct those who are not here today, to adopt this rule - stop your children from eating meat, and especially fat meat; let them have composition to drink, instead of unhealthy water; let them eat a little more porridge; let them eat sparingly and not oppress the stomach so as to create a fever. No matter whether it is a child or a middle-aged person, whenever the stomach is over-loaded and charged with more than is required it creates a fever; this fever creates sickness, until death relieves the sufferer. 19:68.
Many husbands are made sick and many children are sent to an untimely grave through eating badly prepared food, the result of ignorance or carelessness. 10:28.
Mothers, keep the children from eating meat; and let them eat vegetables that are fully matured, not unripe, and bread that is well-baked, not soft. Do not put your loaf into the oven with a fire hot enough to burn it before it is baked through, but with a slow heat, and let it remain until it is perfectly baked; and I would prefer, for my own eating, each and every loaf to be not thicker than my two hands - you tell how thick they are - and I would want the crust as thick as my hand. 19:67.
Be careful of your bodies; be prudent in laying out your energies, for when you are old you will need the strength and power you are now wasting. Preserve your lives. Until you know and practice this, you are not thoroughly good soldiers nor wise stewards. 8:136-137.

Page 155 - Unsual or Difficult Situations - "meat to save your lives"(see footnote DC:49:21a JST Gen 9:11)
When a person is placed in circumstances that he cannot possibly obtain one particle of anything to sustain life, it would then be his privilege to exercise faith in God to feed him, who might cause a raven to pick up a piece of dried meat from some quarter where there was plenty, and drop it over the famishing man. When I cannot feed myself through the means God has placed in my power, it is then time enough for him to exercise his providence in an unusual manner to administer to my wants. But while we can help ourselves, it is our duty to do so. If a Saint of God be locked up in prison, by his enemies, to starve to death, it is then time enough for God to interpose, and feed him. 1:108.)

Notes *1 and *2
As you will notice, in the full text printing (shown below), permission for some meat and dairy use was tolerated by Brigham in his struggled need to hold the delicate church and it's fragile membership together. They where not always able to have the bounty or grand garden choices that we now have, and were also limited by their own stubbornness and traditions; and were without the science to prove the truth of those inspired nurturing changes that Prophet Joseph Smith and Brigham Young wanted desperately and wished to affect in them.
Forced to deal with the level of knowledge and resistance by the members, Brigham did, when he could not teach the highest law, in the press, give at least the slightly better option of family raised free range beef , home produced milk, naturally raised poultry or mountain fish, over the then growing slaughter-house production meats (already the wealth backbone industry of Missouri) - especially since he could not convince the saints to live in the fuller compliance or the "harder" parts of the word of wisdom which is "pleasing" unto the Lord and may have permitted the opening of the Millennium for those saints then, as Brigham desired! (see Millennium statement above) But, as usual, the saints exaggerate, bend, violate, even further compromising the Prophet's most reasonable latitudes on the law.
Compromise has been the unfortunate and awful burden of every Prophet! Check how often in the scriptures their hands of pure truth have been tied and forced to constraint and hedging because of us, as they must, in painful patience, carefully lead spiritually new converts, along with old hard learning established members, in a line upon line, precept upon precept growth in the gospel in our arduously slow, bull-headed and resistant progress!. But in this critical day, we need to accelerate(*3) that process! - We are living in the most toxic, most animal diseased, most infectious, time of biological collapse - en mass - the world has ever experienced!
We need now to move forward briskly without having to be coaxed, begged, or dragged forward, by our Prophets, righteous teachers and honorable scientists! We need make their callings easier while preserve our own lives, by learning, changing, repenting, and progressing without having to be told, begged or commanded in every obvious and trivial detail! tlr
Note *3 "accelerate"
Rapid Movements in the Last Days - Do you understand that what the Lord will perform in the latter days will be done quicker than in the former days? He suffered Noah to occupy one hundred and twenty years in building the ark. Were he to command us to build an ark, he would not allow so long a time for completing it. 8:134.

[slowflyer220]

Tell me what is more healthy? Eating Cookies, Ice cream, burgers, hot dogs, diet coke... like it's health food or drinking coffee, black tea, green tea. I'm sorry, but the WOW makes no sense, minus the strong drink. You see members who are fat, eat terrible, and don't exercise and people who drink coffee and teas in great health. It's Hypocritical. Maybe the recommend should include weight restrictions. I'm a member, but this is one I just can't believe as direction from God. It's treated like commandment 11. Oh, don't get me started on prescription drugs. I also believe Green tea is better for you than gallons of Diet Coke. I know I'll get beat up for this, but it's the way I feel.

[Matchmaker]

Tell me what is more healthy? Eating Cookies, Ice cream, burgers, hot dogs, diet coke... like it's health food or drinking coffee, black tea, green tea. I'm sorry, but the WOW makes no sense, minus the strong drink. You see members who are fat, eat terrible, and don't exercise and people who drink coffee and teas in great health. It's Hypocritical. Maybe the recommend should include weight restrictions. I'm a member, but this is one I just can't believe as direction from God. It's treated like commandment 11. Oh, don't get me started on prescription drugs. I also believe Green tea is better for you than gallons of Diet Coke. I know I'll get beat up for this, but it's the way I feel.

I agree that diet soda is a killer, and too many members in the Church are hooked on it to their detriment. It is so addictive! My husband drinks between 1 and 2 two liter bottles a day. I also agree that eating sugary desserts full of high fructose corn syrup will eventually kill you in one way or another. I'm trying to cut way back on eating meat, but I will still reach for a good steak when I can get it. Some days I do better than others.

I don't drink soda. I've finally given up the desserts, but now I find myself struggling to give up fast food, like microwave dinners, Arby's roast beef classics, and pizza!

I don't drink green tea, but I do like Twinnings Spearmint tea with a little milk and honey. It is really soothing.