Help needed!
-
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Help needed!
I recently purchased an Onkyo TX NR676 receiver. Now keep in mind that I'm used to plug n play, easy to hookup stereo systems.
But this unit has been a thorn in my side since the day I bought it. On the box it reads that it will produce 210 watts per channel then has 7.2 next to it as if I was supposed to know what it meant. So I come to find out 210 watts is only produced when 7 different speakers are being used in a surround sound scenario. Two speakers only provide about a 100 watts per channel. My speakers are: BIC AMERICA RTR-1530 15-Inch 3-Way Floor Standing ... Power: 10 Watts to 325 Watts per Channel. But this isn't my real problem. My problem is that there is no sound whatsoever coming out of these high power speakers. The receiver simply isn't providing anything to them...and I cannot figure out why.
I located a little tidbit that reads: depending on the source and the listening mode settings, there may be no sound output.
Okay, that's nice to know. So after doing a setup procedure and playing with knobs and settings until blue in the face, it still doesn't work. In fact, there is no sound coming out of the AM/FM either. I bought it because it has an internal pre-amp built-in. And I wanted high output for my speakers. Ya, right!
I guess my best alternative is to return it and find something else. I bought way too much for my needs, but feel cheated because the good guys at the store didn't tell me about any pitfalls or how to set up this thing for my specific listening pleasure. What ever happened to the good ole' plug n play stuff? Why so much nonsense just to hear my LP's?
Maybe this will be an informative post for anyone coming up against the same issues. The price doesn't justify the headaches. And I'm not about to go buy another TV, five speakers and whatever else just to have surround sound....that may not work when put all together.
But this unit has been a thorn in my side since the day I bought it. On the box it reads that it will produce 210 watts per channel then has 7.2 next to it as if I was supposed to know what it meant. So I come to find out 210 watts is only produced when 7 different speakers are being used in a surround sound scenario. Two speakers only provide about a 100 watts per channel. My speakers are: BIC AMERICA RTR-1530 15-Inch 3-Way Floor Standing ... Power: 10 Watts to 325 Watts per Channel. But this isn't my real problem. My problem is that there is no sound whatsoever coming out of these high power speakers. The receiver simply isn't providing anything to them...and I cannot figure out why.
I located a little tidbit that reads: depending on the source and the listening mode settings, there may be no sound output.
Okay, that's nice to know. So after doing a setup procedure and playing with knobs and settings until blue in the face, it still doesn't work. In fact, there is no sound coming out of the AM/FM either. I bought it because it has an internal pre-amp built-in. And I wanted high output for my speakers. Ya, right!
I guess my best alternative is to return it and find something else. I bought way too much for my needs, but feel cheated because the good guys at the store didn't tell me about any pitfalls or how to set up this thing for my specific listening pleasure. What ever happened to the good ole' plug n play stuff? Why so much nonsense just to hear my LP's?
Maybe this will be an informative post for anyone coming up against the same issues. The price doesn't justify the headaches. And I'm not about to go buy another TV, five speakers and whatever else just to have surround sound....that may not work when put all together.
Last edited by freedomforall on July 11th, 2017, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Alaris
- Captain of 144,000
- Posts: 7354
- Location: Present before the general assembly
- Contact:
Re: Help needed!
Try different speakers if you can. Try different speaker wire. Try different channels. Read the manual.... haha just kidding.
It could be DOA - that's always a possibility.
It could be DOA - that's always a possibility.
-
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: Help needed!
About being DOA, I considered this as well. Can there be lemons in the listening entertainment category? And do I need to be a rocket scientist to understand the manual? BTW, the advanced manual is found online because they were too cheap to provide it for the $549. price tag.
- Alaris
- Captain of 144,000
- Posts: 7354
- Location: Present before the general assembly
- Contact:
Re: Help needed!
There's a bell curve in all electronics where most lifespans fall in the center but there are outliers - some have a long life span against the odds. And some are duds. There are far more duds than long lifers among the outliers in electronicsland in my experience.freedomforall wrote: ↑July 11th, 2017, 6:27 pmAbout being DOA, I considered this as well. Can there be lemons in the listening entertainment category? And do I need to be a rocket scientist to understand the manual? BTW, the advanced manual is found online because they were too cheap to provide it for the $549. price tag.
- Original_Intent
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13100
Re: Help needed!
Most likely the receiver has to be set to the proper mode. i.e. if you have it set to 7.2 and don't have two main speakers and 7 surround sound speakers, that could be a problem. Read the manual to determine if there is a mode for just a left and right speaker. Check out page 18 of your manual.
Page 18 of your manual has pictures to help.Step 1. Press the SP/SYS setup button. 2. Skip this step for your model. Step 3. Select Yes if you have a sub-woofer connected,
and No if you do not. Step 4. Select the size of your Front Speakers Large or Small. Step 5. Select the size of your Center speaker, Large, Small or None. Step 6. Select the size of your Surround speakers (this would be the 7 speakers) Large Small or None. Step 7. Press the Smart Scan controller to complete your speaker setup.
- captainfearnot
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1975
Re: Help needed!
Am I alone in thinking that, yeah, you're supposed to know what that stuff means? If you're signing up to buy an expensive product it's kinda your job to learn what you're buying.freedomforall wrote: ↑July 11th, 2017, 6:13 pm I recently purchased an Onkyo TX NR676 receiver. Now keep in mind that I'm used to plug n play, easy to hookup stereo systems.
But this unit has been a thorn in my side since the day I bought it. On the box it reads that it will produce 210 watts per channel then has 7.2 next to it as if I was supposed to know what it meant.
I don't know where you're getting 210W per channel, everything I'm seeing clearly says 100W per channel. That should be plenty though. You bought a home theater receiver, but it sounds like you wanted a stereo receiver. You didn't buy too much, you just bought the wrong thing, if you're not planning to hook this up to a TV. If all you want is a nice stereo check this one out, it's a beauty and might suit your needs better.
-
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: Help needed!
210W per channel is on the box front and in the manual. But it's only good for a 7 speaker setup. In 1982 I bought a Realistic system. It had a 120 watt per channel, two Mach One speakers capable of 160 watts each. A direct drive, LAB 440, turn table with tracking capability. Was a very good system. Had it until the speakers fell apart and the electrolytics went south in the STA 2100 receiver. I still use the turntable.captainfearnot wrote: ↑July 11th, 2017, 6:47 pmAm I alone in thinking that, yeah, you're supposed to know what that stuff means? If you're signing up to buy an expensive product it's kinda your job to learn what you're buying.freedomforall wrote: ↑July 11th, 2017, 6:13 pm I recently purchased an Onkyo TX NR676 receiver. Now keep in mind that I'm used to plug n play, easy to hookup stereo systems.
But this unit has been a thorn in my side since the day I bought it. On the box it reads that it will produce 210 watts per channel then has 7.2 next to it as if I was supposed to know what it meant.
I don't know where you're getting 210W per channel, everything I'm seeing clearly says 100W per channel. That should be plenty though. You bought a home theater receiver, but it sounds like you wanted a stereo receiver. You didn't buy too much, you just bought the wrong thing, if you're not planning to hook this up to a TV. If all you want is a nice stereo check this one out, it's a beauty and might suit your needs better.
Looks like this (this one is not mine) :
Check out: http://www.onkyo.com/manual/txnr676/adv ... ntents.pdf
- captainfearnot
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1975
Re: Help needed!
Okay, I think I see what's going on here. The watts per channel doesn't depend on how many channels are hooked up. Your receiver isn't going to double the power output to every speaker just because it sees that you have seven connected.freedomforall wrote:210W per channel is on the box front and in the manual. But it's only good for a 7 speaker setup.
On the first page of that manual you linked to, very first paragraph, it states Rated Output Power of 100W per channel RMS at 8 ohms. That's how we measure stereos and speakers in North America. Then it goes on to state other measurements like Maximum Effective Output and other standards for other parts of the world, and at different ohms. It's all the same, and it's all more than you need to get full advantage of your speakers.
Because there are so many ways to measure power, RMS is an attempt at standardization. It stands for Root Mean Square and essentially measures how much average, continuous power your receiver is capable of putting out over an extended period of time. The other ratings you see on that page, like the 210W, are more like peak power. But it's all different ways of measuring the same thing, having nothing to do with the number of channels connected. The 7.2 indication is just to let you know that you have 100W RMS (or 210W peak) times seven channels, should you choose to hook them all up.
Mostly you just want to make sure you're not going to blow your speakers by trying to drive too much power to them, so you want them to match your stereo. They look to be rated at 325W peak so you should be good to go. They are 8 ohm speakers so just make sure your receiver is set to 6 ohms (the setting for speakers with 6 ohms or greater impedance).
All that means is that if you hooked up a bunch of surround speakers and then played a regular old record or CD recorded in stereo, you might not get sound from all of them, depending on how you program your receiver. But you should always get sound from your fronts if you hooked them up right.freedomforall wrote:I located a little tidbit that reads: depending on the source and the listening mode settings, there may be no sound output.
Kind of like in the old days if you put on something recorded in mono, you might only get sound from one speaker, unless you flipped the switch telling it to drive the same signal to both speakers.
- sandman45
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1562
Re: Help needed!
could be DOA happens with computer hardware and monitors etc.. also check to see if someone on YOUTUBE has created a video giving it a review or setup instructionsfreedomforall wrote: ↑July 11th, 2017, 6:13 pm I recently purchased an Onkyo TX NR676 receiver. Now keep in mind that I'm used to plug n play, easy to hookup stereo systems.
But this unit has been a thorn in my side since the day I bought it. On the box it reads that it will produce 210 watts per channel then has 7.2 next to it as if I was supposed to know what it meant. So I come to find out 210 watts is only produced when 7 different speakers are being used in a surround sound scenario. Two speakers only provide about a 100 watts per channel. My speakers are: BIC AMERICA RTR-1530 15-Inch 3-Way Floor Standing ... Power: 10 Watts to 325 Watts per Channel. But this isn't my real problem. My problem is that there is no sound whatsoever coming out of these high power speakers. The receiver simply isn't providing anything to them...and I cannot figure out why.
I located a little tidbit that reads: depending on the source and the listening mode settings, there may be no sound output.
Okay, that's nice to know. So after doing a setup procedure and playing with knobs and settings until blue in the face, it still doesn't work. In fact, there is no sound coming out of the AM/FM either. I bought it because it has an internal pre-amp built-in. And I wanted high output for my speakers. Ya, right!
I guess my best alternative is to return it and find something else. I bought way too much for my needs, but feel cheated because the good guys at the store didn't tell me about any pitfalls or how to set up this thing for my specific listening pleasure. What ever happened to the good ole' plug n play stuff? Why so much nonsense just to hear my LP's?
Maybe this will be an informative post for anyone coming up against the same issues. The price doesn't justify the headaches. And I'm not about to go buy another TV, five speakers and whatever else just to have surround sound....that may not work when put all together.
-
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4426
Re: Help needed!
You may want to consider calling the manufacturer's support number and have them assist you to set it up. They generally prefer helping you as opposed to you returning the receiver.
-Finrock
-Finrock
-
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: Help needed!
I did that but none were that helpful. I could not find anything addressing the issue of no sound output for both the speaker setup or AM/FM.sandman45 wrote: ↑July 12th, 2017, 2:04 pmcould be DOA happens with computer hardware and monitors etc.. also check to see if someone on YOUTUBE has created a video giving it a review or setup instructionsfreedomforall wrote: ↑July 11th, 2017, 6:13 pm I recently purchased an Onkyo TX NR676 receiver. Now keep in mind that I'm used to plug n play, easy to hookup stereo systems.
But this unit has been a thorn in my side since the day I bought it. On the box it reads that it will produce 210 watts per channel then has 7.2 next to it as if I was supposed to know what it meant. So I come to find out 210 watts is only produced when 7 different speakers are being used in a surround sound scenario. Two speakers only provide about a 100 watts per channel. My speakers are: BIC AMERICA RTR-1530 15-Inch 3-Way Floor Standing ... Power: 10 Watts to 325 Watts per Channel. But this isn't my real problem. My problem is that there is no sound whatsoever coming out of these high power speakers. The receiver simply isn't providing anything to them...and I cannot figure out why.
I located a little tidbit that reads: depending on the source and the listening mode settings, there may be no sound output.
Okay, that's nice to know. So after doing a setup procedure and playing with knobs and settings until blue in the face, it still doesn't work. In fact, there is no sound coming out of the AM/FM either. I bought it because it has an internal pre-amp built-in. And I wanted high output for my speakers. Ya, right!
I guess my best alternative is to return it and find something else. I bought way too much for my needs, but feel cheated because the good guys at the store didn't tell me about any pitfalls or how to set up this thing for my specific listening pleasure. What ever happened to the good ole' plug n play stuff? Why so much nonsense just to hear my LP's?
Maybe this will be an informative post for anyone coming up against the same issues. The price doesn't justify the headaches. And I'm not about to go buy another TV, five speakers and whatever else just to have surround sound....that may not work when put all together.
The only time I got any sound at all is when I performed the speaker calibration test. Several hisses but that's all.
But, I have a message in a new post coming up.
Thanks Sandman. I appreciate the input.
-
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: Help needed!
Thanks everyone. I decided to return the receiver and go after a two channel receiver.
Actually, I took the advice given by....
I thought I knew a little about watt output and speaker output. But, I find that I didn't know enough to put into a thimble.
CFN helped me with this:
For instance, I bought a demo record years ago that played several different sound effects. In one case, I was asked if I could hear the hammer hitting the string of a piano before the note played. The answer was "yes." This is one of the differences between a high quality system and a tinny one.
Another thing that ruined good sound quality is when they went from analog to digital. Analog doesn't cut out some of the sounds of instruments like digital, because the wave-peak of digital is square, whereas the wave of analog is rounded at its peak or shaped like a wave, thus allowing more original sound to be produced out of one's speakers; they simply cut off the top of the wave and left it squared, not very nice.
Someone just made a lot more money with the stupid idea of selling nothing but digital. Even movies shown on TV are sometimes lousy because the picture locks up or comes out in broken bits. Yet people eat up the idea of having digital. Oh, well.
Question: According to the specs for both the R-S700 and Realistic STA 2100, I guess I'm not doing too bad, right? If I read these correctly, except for the harmonic distortion factor, the R-S700 surpasses the STA 2100. But I do not say this with absolute certainty.
Specifications for R-S700
Tuning range: FM, MW
Power output: 100 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
Frequency response: 10Hz to 100kHz
Total harmonic distortion: 0.019%
Input sensitivity: 3.5mV (MM), 200mV (line)
Signal to noise ratio: 87dB (MM), 100dB (line)
Output: 200mV (line)
Specifications for 2100
Tuning range: FM, MW
Power output: 120 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
Frequency response: 15Hz to 25kHz
Total harmonic distortion: 0.04%
Input sensitivity: 2.2mV (MM), 140mV (DIN), 140mV (line)
Signal to noise ratio: 70dB (MM), 75dB (DIN), 75dB (line)
Output: 140mV (line), 3.3mV (DIN)
Actually, I took the advice given by....
......and bought the Yamaha R-S700. I find that I don't need the hassle of trying to setup and maintain so many component hookups. My desire is to keep it simple.captainfearnot wrote:If all you want is a nice stereo check this one out, it's a beauty and might suit your needs better.
I thought I knew a little about watt output and speaker output. But, I find that I didn't know enough to put into a thimble.
CFN helped me with this:
Summery: I hope this new system will come close to the sound quality I had with the Realistic from yesteryear. I know there are and were better systems like Harmon Kardon, but I'm completely satisfied with what I had.captainfearnot wrote: Okay, I think I see what's going on here. The watts per channel doesn't depend on how many channels are hooked up. Your receiver isn't going to double the power output to every speaker just because it sees that you have seven connected.
On the first page of that manual you linked to, very first paragraph, it states Rated Output Power of 100W per channel RMS at 8 ohms. That's how we measure stereos and speakers in North America. Then it goes on to state other measurements like Maximum Effective Output and other standards for other parts of the world, and at different ohms. It's all the same, and it's all more than you need to get full advantage of your speakers.
Because there are so many ways to measure power, RMS is an attempt at standardization. It stands for Root Mean Square and essentially measures how much average, continuous power your receiver is capable of putting out over an extended period of time. The other ratings you see on that page, like the 210W, are more like peak power. But it's all different ways of measuring the same thing, having nothing to do with the number of channels connected. The 7.2 indication is just to let you know that you have 100W RMS (or 210W peak) times seven channels, should you choose to hook them all up.
Mostly you just want to make sure you're not going to blow your speakers by trying to drive too much power to them, so you want them to match your stereo. They look to be rated at 325W peak so you should be good to go. They are 8 ohm speakers so just make sure your receiver is set to 6 ohms (the setting for speakers with 6 ohms or greater impedance).
For instance, I bought a demo record years ago that played several different sound effects. In one case, I was asked if I could hear the hammer hitting the string of a piano before the note played. The answer was "yes." This is one of the differences between a high quality system and a tinny one.
Another thing that ruined good sound quality is when they went from analog to digital. Analog doesn't cut out some of the sounds of instruments like digital, because the wave-peak of digital is square, whereas the wave of analog is rounded at its peak or shaped like a wave, thus allowing more original sound to be produced out of one's speakers; they simply cut off the top of the wave and left it squared, not very nice.
Someone just made a lot more money with the stupid idea of selling nothing but digital. Even movies shown on TV are sometimes lousy because the picture locks up or comes out in broken bits. Yet people eat up the idea of having digital. Oh, well.
Question: According to the specs for both the R-S700 and Realistic STA 2100, I guess I'm not doing too bad, right? If I read these correctly, except for the harmonic distortion factor, the R-S700 surpasses the STA 2100. But I do not say this with absolute certainty.
Specifications for R-S700
Tuning range: FM, MW
Power output: 100 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
Frequency response: 10Hz to 100kHz
Total harmonic distortion: 0.019%
Input sensitivity: 3.5mV (MM), 200mV (line)
Signal to noise ratio: 87dB (MM), 100dB (line)
Output: 200mV (line)
Specifications for 2100
Tuning range: FM, MW
Power output: 120 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
Frequency response: 15Hz to 25kHz
Total harmonic distortion: 0.04%
Input sensitivity: 2.2mV (MM), 140mV (DIN), 140mV (line)
Signal to noise ratio: 70dB (MM), 75dB (DIN), 75dB (line)
Output: 140mV (line), 3.3mV (DIN)
- captainfearnot
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1975
Re: Help needed!
Wow, congratulations! It warms my heart to know there are other stereophiles out there. I had my eye on that same receiver for months before I finally took the plunge about a year ago. I love it love it love it. I even have it hooked up to my TV and DVD player. No surround sound for me, two channels all the way.
I hope it works out for you.
I hope it works out for you.
-
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: Help needed!
It's been ordered, so I should get it in a few days. I expect to enjoy it, having nearly three thousand LP's and hundreds of 45's via yard-sales and store purchases. Still have some LP's in mint condition, the sleeve having never been opened.captainfearnot wrote: ↑July 12th, 2017, 7:32 pm Wow, congratulations! It warms my heart to know there are other stereophiles out there. I had my eye on that same receiver for months before I finally took the plunge about a year ago. I love it love it love it. I even have it hooked up to my TV and DVD player. No surround sound for me, two channels all the way.
I hope it works out for you.
Also have a copy of Joel Whitburn's Top Pop singles ranging from 1955 to about 2009 Comes in real handy. I venture to say there still are some songs one can't find on Youtube.
SEE: https://www.recordresearch.com/
Here is a pre-55 song by Charlie Applewhite I took a liking to when I was a pre-teen. My mom owned the 45 and after her passing, I got it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eFk8fMM8wU
Here is one of my most favorites by the Pied Pipers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eFk8fMM8wU