Beards!

[Silascaptain of 100]

Another thread brought this up but I wanted to talk about it a little more directly. So the church and facial hair. Lets discuss it. We will start with Joseph Smith, he was clean shaven though I understand that was more because he couldn't grow a good beard and preferred the appearance with out one. Then you have Brigham Young and from him on every prophet has some kind of facial hair until... David O Mckay. He killed the beard. I don't know if he actually killed it but he was they guy who stopped using it. (This is all due to a scientific analysis called looking at a row of pictures of the prophets) So I got thinking how did this anti-facial hair thing get going and this is what I have got. Back in the 1800's it was totally social acceptable to have a beard. And not just modest facial hair, but some really awesome beards. Then we have WWI and WWII all the able bodied men are drafted and they have to shave. Which they continue after they get home.

So in the 40s the beard is dying socially because so many men were trained to stay clean shaven. Enter the 50's 60's we start to see the hippies and commies who are rebelling against cultural standards and norms which now happens to include shaving. Obviously the church does not want its people to be involved or associated with those groups so they start to react by really pushing the clean shaven look. We want the appearance of being good members of society and so on so church leaders and people who attend church schools need to shave.

That is the story so far as I can tell. Now I think beards are awesome. I want to grow one but the odds are stacked against me. I am in the military, I attend a church school, I am in a church leadership position and my wife hates how it feels when I kiss her with hair on my face. Still I have a dream. Society is starting to grow more accepting of beards I think in the next 10-20 years or so facial hair will have completely lost its "rebellious" image and we might just see the church accept the beard as well. Don't know, just hoping.

Thoughts anyone?

[mattctrcaptain of 100]

There seems to be an unwritten rule of thumb in LDS themed productions that goes something like this: More beard = more sin. Some historical figures excepted. You can see this for yourself in The Work and the Glory movies. As Joshua becomes worse and worse, his beard gets longer and longer. When he repents, he becomes clean shaven again and all is well.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

I served in Bishopric with goatee and it was never brought up.....our current high counselor has one as well.

[one4freedomcaptain of 100]

On my mission there was a really great brother who was called to be bishop. He had a goatee for years before being called, and it managed to stay for a few months after being called. One day I saw him and he was clean shaven. I asked him why he shaved and he said the stake president asked him to in order to be a better example.

I am currently doing my best to grow a decent beard. Unfortunately, it's not as glorious as I would like it to be.

[Sarielcaptain of 100]

I agree with your analysis silas. I want to grow a beard. My mother and brothers say I should, my dad says I should not (because of cultural reasons). If it's cleaner to not have facial hair we should probably shave our heads, arms, and eye brows as well. I hate to follow church norms that are 100% cultural. It is so very stupid.

[gooseguy11captain of 100]

I tried on Vacation, it is better for others. I couldn't stand it, and I couldn't get a good cover going. It looked like I had a dirty face. As far as others I think those who can should if they feel so inclined. I have always felt that those that wear beards are more approachable.

[letsjetcaptain of 10]

The military is the toughest. As far as the Church goes, you just have to become an actor in the new movie that the Church is currently filming. I think it is about the life of Christ. Under that condition, having beard is almost a Church calling.

[Silascaptain of 100]

I could do a mustache, but military regulations and the honor code both say you can't let it go past the corner of your lips, which just looks stupid. I believe in being obedient. ie I didn't have to go to this school or join the military, I chose too therefore I should follow the rules even if I think they are dumb. But I actually think there is a real danger of hypocrisy if we associate beards with wickedness. I remember being really annoyed when I got home from my mission I heard several people talk about how afraid they were of return missionaries falling away and several of them specifically mentioned facial hair as some kind of gateway to apostasy. It bothered me to hear something so illogical come from people who's opinions I otherwise had high regard for. My wife has agreed to give me free reign on my facial hair when I go to grad school. So hopefully no one thinks I have left the church or something.

[Cowboycaptain of 100]

I think it is a matter of who is running the show. Some have a thing against facial hair some don't care.
As a Bishop I had a mustache ( great big bushy one ) for 3 of the years. Everyone in Wyoming has hair and cowboy boots. Elder Gene Cook came up once and had a fit in one of the meetings. After that, the Stake President asked everyone to "clean up". I didn't.
We also had a Temple President ask all ordinance workers to quit wearing western clothing to the temple........didn't go over well and later explained as a misunderstanding.
I always told my youth that weird hairstyles or colored hair would keep them from blessing the sacrament. I see it once in awhile here in Utah. A couple of years ago, a priest in our ward here in Utah blessed with a top knot ( Sumo style ). I never would have let that happen.... he was a great kid and is now he is on a mission . So what do I know.
Right now I have a goatee and will always have facial hair. It might be a juvenile attitude but I think it defines us as does our hair and glasses or contacts and dress....different strokes for different folks.
Plus, in the whole scope of things... it really doesn't matter.

[one4freedomcaptain of 100]

On my mission there was a really great brother who was called to be bishop. He had a goatee for years before being called, and it managed to stay for a few months after being called. One day I saw him and he was clean shaven. I asked him why he shaved and he said the stake president asked him to in order to be a better example.

I am currently doing my best to grow a decent beard. Unfortunately, it's not as glorious as I would like it to be.

A better example of WHAT though???

I have issues about this kind of thing.... I do NOT believe a man is more righteous because he is clean shaven, has a boring tie, a whiter shirt or a jacket.

An example of obedience to non-rules, obviously.

I have to admit that I wear my facial hair in part to buck the trend. I also have never done it until a few months ago, and it's just growing on me (see what I did there? ). My wife likes it, so I don't have any reason to shave.

[Silascaptain of 100]

I think more people need to go ahead and do it to kind of bring it back as a socially acceptable thing to do. As it turns out you can keep the commandments and enjoy the spirit of the Lord just as well with facial hair as without.

[uglypitbullcaptain of 1,000]

I am serving in the Elders Quorum and when the Stake Presidency came to ask if I would accept the calling (wife was asked too), they made note of my 5inch long, thick and burly goatee, and complimented me on it just like every other guy in church has. I have had the old sisters in the ward tug on it when they talk to me, the missionaries talk about how they hope to grow one like it someday. I recently went to a Stake Priesthood Leadership meeting and noticed 5 or 6 guys with the "shaped" goatees. My brother who is in the Bishopric in his ward was asked to shave his, so I know that its primarily up to the Stake President as to whether or not you can have facial hair.

To answer your original question....if your wife doesnt like kissing you with facial hair....shave it off. LOL No brainer there.

PS: I trimmed mine back down to a half inch in length, it got annoying. The fun is in growing it, not maintaining it.

PSS: Also, learn to use a straight razor.....its the most enjoyable shaving experience you will ever have.

[Silascaptain of 100]

I recently started using the the vintage safety edge razors. I am sorely tempted to go all the way to a straight razors. If you can't grow a beard then at least shave like a man.

[uglypitbullcaptain of 1,000]

Be careful using those double edge safety razors, they become quite addictive. I started with those and now have three of them..and three brushes...tons of different soaps and aftershaves too. LOL.
I prefer the Feather blades or the Derby Extra.....Feathers are the sharpest, and the best for thick beards, but Derby is the all around use blade. The trick is to make the lather perfect.... lots of good info on Badger and Blade forums and the leisure guy blog...
http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2006/07 ... xperience/

[purebellecaptain of 10]

I think no one should be judged according to his preferred physical appearance, beard or no beard

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

This thread has led me to investigate razors. I've been using the Fusion, and learned about that trick to use jeans to sharpen it. It's not perfect, but it really does extend the life of it for months. Granted, I do not have thick facial hair at all, so I can make it last longer than most.

But I love a close shave, and I hear many love the retro-shave of the safety razor. What is recommended for me, with regards to safety razors? It looks like Merkel is most popular. Get a double-edged or just regular? I only need to shave 2-3 times a week. What are your recommendations for me? How often will I need to switch out the blades? Is it really a big deal to get an old-school brush and soap? Should I really ditch my gillette foam? Would my wife like it for her legs? Thanks.

[Sarielcaptain of 100]

I've started to grow a beard; I'm two weeks in. So far I don't feel any less righteous.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

I grow beards occasionally. When asked about it in church, my reply is " since my Great-great grandfather, Wilford Woodruff, sported a beard, so can I. I, however, don't like retaining a beard for a long time. Like so many things having a beard gets old. I did have a trimmed mustache for over thirty-five years and then cut it off altogether.

[ChelCThe Law]

I wish it were culturally acceptable in the church. My husband works for the church, so he no longer has facial hair. I was pretty bummed because I liked his goatee, but he hasn't had it now in 11 or 12 years. Whenever we have a vacation he lets it grow to see how long it can get before he has to shave for work. He could grow the stache to the corners of his mouth, but...

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

I wish it were culturally acceptable in the church. My husband works for the church, so he no longer has facial hair. I was pretty bummed because I liked his goatee, but he hasn't had it now in 11 or 12 years. Whenever we have a vacation he lets it grow to see how long it can get before he has to shave for work. He could grow the stache to the corners of his mouth, but...

Here's an idea, buy a professional makeup beard from Hollywood. Then he can have an instant beard.

[Nancaptain of 1,000]

I think beards are ugly. My husband grows a goatee periodically. Then he remembers why he always shaves it off and shaves it off again. Definitely less intimacy when he has one. I hate the way it feels when it touches me. If you wife doesn't like it, don't have one. If she likes it, go for it.

[theBruceGuycaptain of 10]

I don't really understand the thread.

None of the current GA's has a beard, Church employees aren't allowed them, they are not allowed on missionaries, nor at Church colleges. All this indicates to me that there is a standard set and I have no need to "kick against the Pricks". The leaders set the standards, we might not understand why, or agree with their reasoning if we did know it, but that is the standard and we sustain them by following their example.

Why so many people need to commanded in all things instead of observing and magnifying their callings by emulating their leaders I do not know.

As an immature young man I grew a beard and mustache, when called as a stake President of Seventy, I was asked to remove the mustache as an example to the Elders and have never grown one since.

Forgetting the Church standard, try reading "Dress for Success" where they will advise you not to have facial hair also. (at least the version I had years ago) they describe their reasoning and it made sense to me.

Do I think having facial hair makes someone less righteous, No, I just think they are less willing to adhere to the standards expected and therefore more likely to kick against other standards they feel they know better about and more likely to question other decisions made by their leaders.

[Sarielcaptain of 100]

I don't really understand the thread.

None of the current GA's has a beard, Church employees aren't allowed them, they are not allowed on missionaries, nor at Church colleges. All this indicates to me that there is a standard set and I have no need to "kick against the Pricks". The leaders set the standards, we might not understand why, or agree with their reasoning if we did know it, but that is the standard and we sustain them by following their example.

Why so many people need to commanded in all things instead of observing and magnifying their callings by emulating their leaders I do not know.

As an immature young man I grew a beard and mustache, when called as a stake President of Seventy, I was asked to remove the mustache as an example to the Elders and have never grown one since.

Forgetting the Church standard, try reading "Dress for Success" where they will advise you not to have facial hair also. (at least the version I had years ago) they describe their reasoning and it made sense to me.

Do I think having facial hair makes someone less righteous, No, I just think they are less willing to adhere to the standards expected and therefore more likely to kick against other standards they feel they know better about and more likely to question other decisions made by their leaders.

This is what I hear most people say. I simply don't agree. Though I don't know why we can't have facial hair, and I probably never will be told, I think the main reason is to conform to western society in an attempt to appeal to the world. This image will help with missionary work I suppose. But I believe the most evil men in this world (gadianton robbers) shave their faces and wear fine suits just like the GA's do. I'm not sure why I need to look like a rich business man to show the world I am a disciple of Christ.

[AshleyBcaptain of 1,000]

Bahaha! I thought this topic was funny because we just had a conversation during dinner on sunday with my hubby, his brother and parents. It was all about how his older brother had once wanted to grow his hair out long. Okay, so its a little off topic of a beard. Similar though. His mom was saying all the typical things moms say and all the official reasons for keeping short hair. His brother was like 12 at the time and his brother came out and said yeah well "Jesus wore his hair long!" And we all thought that was pretty funny. That's hard to argue with and she admitted when he said that she wasn't sure what to say. LOL

[SpeedRacercaptain of 1,000]

I have had a beard for about a month for the first time in my life. It is not that thick. I get compliments on it, in and out of church. I know there is a policy about temple workers and facial hair very similar to the BYU thing. I did have a soul patch for years and years before, but that hardly counts.

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

Just buy one of these-
http://beardbeanie.com/

[Silascaptain of 100]

This thread has led me to investigate razors. I've been using the Fusion, and learned about that trick to use jeans to sharpen it. It's not perfect, but it really does extend the life of it for months. Granted, I do not have thick facial hair at all, so I can make it last longer than most.

But I love a close shave, and I hear many love the retro-shave of the safety razor. What is recommended for me, with regards to safety razors? It looks like Merkel is most popular. Get a double-edged or just regular? I only need to shave 2-3 times a week. What are your recommendations for me? How often will I need to switch out the blades? Is it really a big deal to get an old-school brush and soap? Should I really ditch my gillette foam? Would my wife like it for her legs? Thanks.

Excellent Questions. Merkel is pretty popular but I think they are a little more expensive. You can do a search on Amazon and find a lot of different options ranging from $10-60. The nice thing about safety razors is that while it can cost more to start you save tons of money over time because the blades are so dirt cheap. They last about a week. I like the double edge because I can do a week on one side and a week on another. It is a big deal to get a soap and brush. Mainly because it is awesome. You just feel so cool wiping soap on your face like a man. I think the shave soaps are a lot better for your skin than the foam. It nourishes your skin and leaves a nice manly sent. Again like the blades much cheaper to buy, one soap cake will be pretty cheap and last for a long time. The brush has the added affect of making sure you only use what you need, you don't have to worry about squirting out to much or to little foam.

I have noticed that since I made the switch I have had to deal with much less skin irritation than when I used the fusion. You are still running a blade over your face so but the safety razor is metal and the weight of it does most of the work you just drag with very little pressure. My wife has never used it she prefers shaving will my old fusions, we stockpiled a bunch when they were on sale.

I like to frequent a web site called the art of manliness and they got me started on the safety razors. They have a lot of good articles about all things manly, here is the one about shaving that got me started. http://artofmanliness.com/2008/01/04/ho ... r-grandpa/

[Silascaptain of 100]

I don't really understand the thread.

None of the current GA's has a beard, Church employees aren't allowed them, they are not allowed on missionaries, nor at Church colleges. All this indicates to me that there is a standard set and I have no need to "kick against the Pricks". The leaders set the standards, we might not understand why, or agree with their reasoning if we did know it, but that is the standard and we sustain them by following their example.

Why so many people need to commanded in all things instead of observing and magnifying their callings by emulating their leaders I do not know.

As an immature young man I grew a beard and mustache, when called as a stake President of Seventy, I was asked to remove the mustache as an example to the Elders and have never grown one since.

Forgetting the Church standard, try reading "Dress for Success" where they will advise you not to have facial hair also. (at least the version I had years ago) they describe their reasoning and it made sense to me.

Do I think having facial hair makes someone less righteous, No, I just think they are less willing to adhere to the standards expected and therefore more likely to kick against other standards they feel they know better about and more likely to question other decisions made by their leaders.

Obedience is a very important principle to me. So long as I attend a church school I will be clean shaven. Also if those in authority to speak for the Lord tell me that he wants me to be clean shaven then I will be. In that case I don't need to understand why if I understand that it is what he wants. However there is not commandment regarding facial hair, just a policy. If that policy affects you because of your calling or employment then yeah it is important to be obedient to it. But we shouldn't be so concerned about complying with non-commandments that are merely cultural practices. That can lead us to becoming like the pharisees, who imposed their cultural practices as though they were commandments from God. It also naturally leads us to be judgmental against others because as you said if they don't shave then they are probably more willing to disregard other standards. However it is very possible for a person to have facial hair and be a completely obedient devoted member of the church.

The church's facial hair policy is more about following the cultural norm. So if more people in society start pulling of respectable facial hair then the cultural norm changes. I want to see more businessman, lawyers, actors and politicians start wearing facial hair again. It is starting to happen give it ten to twenty years. What is acceptable will change.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

Would God have placed hair follicles on a man's face if it weren't supposed to grow into a something beautiful? When is the last time anyone looked at God and Jesus in the Temple video? If it's good enough for them, it's...

Has anyone ever seen a picture of Christ where He has no hair on his face. Apparently, facial hair has some deep significance.

When Joseph Smith saw the Father and the Son, did they not have facial hair? In every picture I've ever seen, they do.

Facial hair has no connection as to whether someone is righteous or not. Man looks upon the person; God looks upon his heart. That's what makes the difference.

[SMC007Hi, I'm new.]

I dont think it matters. " Do what you want not what everyone wants you to do."