MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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Joel
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MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

Earlier today, a group of 21 scholars of Mormon history filed a brief in the United States Supreme Court attacking President Trump’s ban on refugees and immigrants from six Muslim countries. The brief tells the story of government attacks on Mormon immigration in the 19th century. This history, it urges, shows the need for exacting scrutiny of the order.

During the 19th century government officials repeatedly attacked the Mormons because of their religion. During the 1880s, federal officials explicitly targeted Mormon immigrants. In some cases, Latter-day Saints were refused entry to the country, in others they were jailed by government officials at the border, and at times federal officials pressured Mormon immigrants to abandon their religion and convert to Protestantism.

According to Kathleen Flake, Richard Lyman Bushman Professor of Mormon Studies at the University of Virginia, "While some know that American Mormons were persecuted, few know that Mormon immigrants were refused entry into the US. Remembering this, we have particular reason to challenge the renewal of religious discrimination in our nation's laws."

Richard Bushman, an emeritus professor at Columbia University and author of Rough Stone Rolling, the definitive biography of Mormonism's founder, said earlier, “Most Americans have a story about ancestors who came as immigrants to the United States, many under pressure. Mormons were among the most reviled when they came. We have to take a stand with those who flee to America as a refuge.”

Some of the scholars gave more personal reasons for joining the brief. Thomas G. Alexander, Lemuel Hardison Redd, Jr. Professor Emeritus of Western American History, Brigham Young University, said:

“As a descendant of Mormons who lost their worldly goods and suffered almost unimaginable persecution because of religious prejudice as vigilantes drove them from their homes in Far West, Missouri and Nauvoo, Illinois, I cannot help but deplore a policy that denies one human being the same opportunities as another because of their religion.”

Likewise, Pulitzer prize-winning Harvard historian Laurel said earlier, “Whenever I hear people stereotyped for their religion, I think of my Grandfather Thatcher, who was denied the right to vote when in Idaho in the 1880s, not because he had violated any law, but simply because he was a Mormon. People should be judged on their behavior, not on their identity.”

The brief was written by Nathan B. Oman, a Mormon law professor at William & Mary, and Anna-Rose Mathieson of the California Appellate Law Group LLP. The scholars were represented before the U.S. Supreme Court by Ms. Mathieson. Nineteen of the scholars filed an earlier amicus brief before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit attacking President Trump’s travel ban.

Seek the Truth
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Re: MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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What has happened to Mormons.

Tree
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Re: MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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Seek the Truth wrote: August 18th, 2017, 3:50 pm What has happened to Mormons.
They think they know everything and how to tell everyone how to do it.

They take principals and misapply them for their emotional needs. Seems to fuel their mental illness.

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Re: MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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These Mormon scholars are conflating the two situations in a mistaken fashion.

LDS/Mormon immigrants posed no terrorist threat to anyone. The discrimination was strictly sociological (anti-polygamy) and/or religious w/perhaps a small amount being for political purposes.

In the case of getting a better handle on Muslim, etc., immigration, the purpose is to prevent criminals from coming in or those who give any indication they might resort to terrorism. We are seeing horrible examples of such terrorism on almost a weekly basis in various parts of Europe/UK, and earlier, here.

Trump doesn't want us to go down the same road Europe/UK is going. To do this, you have to strack up our immigration policy for those countries that seem to produce, by far, the most terrorists.

It's a common sense kind of thing.

This latter topic seems wholly ignored by various LDS spokespeople. The case of recent comments and talks by J. Holland at Cambridge University in UK, is a case in point . . . if accurately reported on by the Deseret News.
Last edited by larsenb on August 18th, 2017, 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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"People should be judged on their behavior, not on their identity."

Uh, does blowing stuff up, running people over with cars, beheading, and rape fall under behavior or identity? I'm not a "Pulitzer prize-winning Harvard historian" so maybe I don't know anything. Stereotype is an ugly word for most people but when we use the same thing in marketing it is called demographics. Now, stereotypes/demographics are not 100% accurate but they are accurate enough that there's a billion, perhaps trillion dollar industry built around them.

I don't think all Muslims are bad or evil. I own a Koran and read it from time to time. My daughter has a Muslim friend at school who has attended family events. Her dad is involved in Tech startups so we get along well. If you've got a high percentage of violent people coming from particular countries where violent ideologies are rampant, then I would ban them until we can make sure murderers are not being imported.

The Nephites took in the Anti-Nephi-Lehies, but Zerahemnah and his men had to swear an oath to go in peace. They only took in peaceful people. They built walls around their cities that had ditches and pickets across the top.

Personally, I think that some of these refugees could be like the 2000 stripling warriors and be a great benefit to our nation. But we still must be on guard and vett people correctly. Everyone gets their panties in a knot when a terrorist event happens and there is outcry about why we didn't screen properly. Then when the government says that for the time being it is too dangerous to allow people in from certain countries until we can know better, they flip out again. You can't have it both ways.

I'm not a fan of Trump and I don't trust anything this government does, but the principles I've mentioned make sense to me unless someone else can impart more wisdom.

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Re: MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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5tev3 wrote: August 18th, 2017, 4:37 pm "People should be judged on their behavior, not on their identity."

Uh, does blowing stuff up, running people over with cars, beheading, and rape fall under behavior or identity? I'm not a "Pulitzer prize-winning Harvard historian" so maybe I don't know anything. Stereotype is an ugly word for most people but when we use the same thing in marketing it is called demographics. Now, stereotypes/demographics are not 100% accurate but they are accurate enough that there's a billion, perhaps trillion dollar industry built around them.

I don't think all Muslims are bad or evil. I own a Koran and read it from time to time. My daughter has a Muslim friend at school who has attended family events. Her dad is involved in Tech startups so we get along well. If you've got a high percentage of violent people coming from particular countries where violent ideologies are rampant, then I would ban them until we can make sure murderers are not being imported.

The Nephites took in the Anti-Nephi-Lehies, but Zerahemnah and his men had to swear an oath to go in peace. They only took in peaceful people. They built walls around their cities that had ditches and pickets across the top.

Personally, I think that some of these refugees could be like the 2000 stripling warriors and be a great benefit to our nation. But we still must be on guard and vett people correctly. Everyone gets their panties in a knot when a terrorist event happens and there is outcry about why we didn't screen properly. Then when the government says that for the time being it is too dangerous to allow people in from certain countries until we can know better, they flip out again. You can't have it both ways.

I'm not a fan of Trump and I don't trust anything this government does, but the principles I've mentioned make sense to me unless someone else can impart more wisdom.
Generally an excellent comment in my view.

But it seems to me, your sense of fairness should give Trump credit for doing exactly what you are suggesting. Like you should be a fan of Trump in at least this one arena.

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oneClimbs
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Re: MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

Post by oneClimbs »

larsenb wrote: August 18th, 2017, 4:41 pmBut it seems to me, your sense of fairness should give Trump credit for doing exactly what you are suggesting. Like you should be a fan of Trump in at least this one arena.
You are right, I'm fine giving credit where credit is due.

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Re: MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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Seek the Truth wrote: August 18th, 2017, 3:50 pm What has happened to Mormons.
I have a theory. This is not based on direct knowledge, but through careful observation.

In 2008, the church was active in the prop 8 campaign. They probably felt as though they were on safe ground. The vast majority of americans were against SSM. Throughout history, marriage had alwasy been between men and women. How could such a position be construed as hateful?

They were caught completely off guard by the vitriolic reaction to this. They understimated the power of the media to shape opinion. They were castigated as hateful bigots for having a very normal position.

Since then, the church has devoted much effort into making people believe we are just normal folks like them. The "I'm a mormon" campaign of 2011 was a great example. The whole focus was not on preaching the gospel, but on saying "Mormons aren't weirdo bigots". The mormons and gays website is another example. Being perceived to be on the progressive side of homosexuality and immigration appears to be of great importance now.

In summary, all of these positions are simply a reaction to the exteme response to Prop 8. We seem to go out of our way and take positions not based upon what is right, but upon how the world will percieve us.

Perhaps this is done in wisdom and we are being "wise as serpents and harmless as doves". I really don't know.

Seek the Truth
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Re: MORMON SCHOLARS TAKE THEIR BRIEF AGAINST TRUMP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

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I'm not from Utah or California, so I have to remind people that Prop 8/Mormon Church very few people heard about. From my perspective I can't understand why anyone is up in arms about it.

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possibly church upper-echelon had had collabolation scheme before propo 8 agenda (the cards were stacked against it from the beginning of the game) with media-moguls so on. in the actuality, true core, they have been cooperative about ssm agenda from the beginning...

:-B

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skmo
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The Catholics have idiots. The Lutherans do. Lots of Baptist denominations do.

I don't see why LDS groups should be considered immune.

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Serragon wrote: August 18th, 2017, 5:14 pm
Seek the Truth wrote: August 18th, 2017, 3:50 pm What has happened to Mormons.
I have a theory. This is not based on direct knowledge, but through careful observation.

In 2008, the church was active in the prop 8 campaign. They probably felt as though they were on safe ground. The vast majority of americans were against SSM. Throughout history, marriage had alwasy been between men and women. How could such a position be construed as hateful?

They were caught completely off guard by the vitriolic reaction to this. They understimated the power of the media to shape opinion. They were castigated as hateful bigots for having a very normal position.

Since then, the church has devoted much effort into making people believe we are just normal folks like them. The "I'm a mormon" campaign of 2011 was a great example. The whole focus was not on preaching the gospel, but on saying "Mormons aren't weirdo bigots". The mormons and gays website is another example. Being perceived to be on the progressive side of homosexuality and immigration appears to be of great importance now.

In summary, all of these positions are simply a reaction to the exteme response to Prop 8. We seem to go out of our way and take positions not based upon what is right, but upon how the world will percieve us.

Perhaps this is done in wisdom and we are being "wise as serpents and harmless as doves". I really don't know.
I would strongly disagree. I view it as prophetic warnings (both for prop 8 and for defending religious liberty). Years before, the proclamation on the family and a couple of years ago the push for defending religious liberty were put forth before there was anything to react to. I consider that prophets have the gift of prophecy (imagine that) and can and do direct policy and procedure aimed at combating the devil's latest attack.

When we were counseled to take a stand in defense of religious liberty, as that is the most important fight we have to fight now, It did not receive much attention. I wonder why as a people, we instead focus our attention and efforts on fighting small skirmishes about splinter faith groups, or local corporate decisions, rather than seeing that the whole world wide Armageddon war directed against all religion is building up and shooting holes in our cherished beliefs and freedoms.

I don't have the answers or even any good suggestions to try. I just see the issues unfolding and realize that we had better call out our defenses.

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