My thoughts are the same as they were before. You are stretching to try and make the changing position of the church fit in with your paradigm. Look at all of the adjectives you are using to state how difficult and nuanced this issue is. It isn't nuanced at all. It is very simple. The adjectives are simply you trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole.brlenox wrote: ↑August 18th, 2017, 9:16 pm A couple of things. First, it is apparent that you passed right over the scriptural example that you requested and I provided for your consideration. It is first very important to understand the reasoning of God as best as man is able. I do not think it even possible to grasp the current state of things if you do not grasp the nature of this New Testament situation concerning marriage. One of the most challenging things about scripture is it is very difficult to take circumstances shrouded in the conditions, circumstance and language of the current day and recognize that practically all experience is somewhere addressed in scriptures in the language of scripture speak for our understanding. We have to diligently search it out to even hope for such. Failing to do so, we do just exactly what you and several others I have observed of late have done. You claim no scriptural precedent exists and then begin to condemn based on a selective view of personal preference. However, the Moses situation should be compelling to you as it embraces too many of the same elements to be so handily ignored. Your thoughts?
Your statement would be correct if this were a public site hosted by the church where people could upload their own unedited stories. But it isn't that type of site.brlenox wrote: ↑August 18th, 2017, 9:16 pm
Your video selection was not the church stance on anything. When does the church claim to base any doctrine on your life story or theirs. It was the story of a family. It was their view. It was the manner in which they addressed an exceptionally difficult and ongoing circumstance in their family. You have your stories of circumstance for things in your family and I have my stories for circumstances within my family. They are our personal journey's but not the churches stance on anything.
This a church produced video, not some random family story. The church chose this story. They produced and directed the video. They published it on their website with the utmost prominence. It is still the headline video on the site. And they did not choose the other stories where people have overcome their homosexuality. This is most definately their position. Apply your same logic to the Ensign to see test how ludicrous your proposition is.
As to the sons of helaman and their parents as an example: The story simply doesn't fit. In addition, equating the noble sacrifice the sons were making to a concert celebrating homosexuality and transgenderism is digusting.
The sons were not committing a sin by participating in the war. The only thing that made the parents fighting sinful was their personal covenant with the Lord. Bringing them provisions was not sinful as it did not violate their covenant, and it did not aid and abet their sons in committing sin.
Suppose the sons of helaman all came out and said they were homosexuals and wanted to have a concert to celebrate this wonderful new discovery. I doubt the parents would have brought provisions to the concert to assist them in their sin. I suspect they would do all in their power to help them overcome this delusion of Satan, not revel in it.
I cannot speak to your nature, although it is my experience that none of us knows our nature half as well as others do. Perhaps you are one of the few who have had the luxury of a deep self reflection. I know not. You do let us know quite often in other threads how intelligent you are and how you are able to toy with others. I find it hard to understand how someone who understood themselves so well would need to say such things even once, let alone so often.brlenox wrote: ↑August 18th, 2017, 9:16 pm It is not my nature to preconceive my ideas and then build narratives to support my opinion. I study, I research, I pray and I seek the Lords guidance and insight. In this instance, I have done an excellent job of gathering the sources that inform my belief and they are the scriptures and the words of the prophet. I assure you that without the guidance of the spirit, practically no one is going to see the value of Christ's response to the Moses situation and how it applies to this situation. They are going to do as you have done and miss the point entirely. The quote I used for what Joseph Smith said I have been searching for for weeks until this morning as I was composing my response to your post an exact phrase entered my head and I found it searching on that. That was not coincidence in the least.
I believe it to be a bit of arrogance on your part to determine that I have no charity in my tone or that I have missed your point. I assure you I have not missed your point. I simply find it lacking and unpersuasive. And if charity does not find its way into my "tone", at least it resides in my heart.
I understand this logic. It is leading or parenting from a perspective of fear, not love. The perspective of the LDS youth is changing because they are given nothing of substance to counter the message of the world. Embracing this perspective further is simply folly. If there is no distinction between sin and good, what is there to choose?brlenox wrote: ↑August 18th, 2017, 9:16 pm One more point, as I am sure you can observe there has been a increasing change in the common voice of the younger generations of members in the church. I don't read it as intentional as much as they are growing up in a society that is characterized by a conditioned acceptance of tolerance of gays and other such classes. So profound is this indoctrination of a generation that like all generations they have instantaneous response to certain things that shut the mind down and they will not listen to a more truthful perspective. Go around condemning LGBTW voices and they simply reject the messenger and the message. Why do you vote to lose them on a point of indoctrination when if you can let them have their social engenderment, then you have a chance to teach them the other aspects of the Gospel in the hope that they will overcome the baggage of a generation. God is charitable in this fashion - should not we be the same? Again D & C 19 speaks to this principle but I'll not elaborate tonight.
If you can provide anything other than personal opinion, yours or family's in video's, if you can justify your stance by any prophetic source, that will add much credibility to your perspective that I am unable to extend at this time.
I'll be interested in your response.