LDS Church issues statement of support for LGBTQ concert event

[bbsion]

In the Salt Lake/Utah media environment every new release sent out by the church is by definition news worthy.

Due to the fact that these announcements are vetted through the church leadership they can be a big statement. Elizabeth - do you disagree with the church's statement? If your not an active member or member at all I can understand an opposing view but otherwise it is what it is.

I'm an active member of the church and I disagree with the statement.

Great - which part of the statement do you disagree with? Is it what the church actually said or the potential message it sends? I didn't see anything in the statement that was incorrect in our beliefs.

This part:
“We applaud the LoveLoud Festival for LGBTQ Youth’s aim to bring people together to address teen safety…”

I do not think they should applaud the festival. The proceeds are not all going to a good cause. I do not think the festival promotes teen safety, especially since homosexual intercourse is not safe or virtuous.

This part:
“We share common beliefs, among them the pricelessness of our youth and the value of families.”

I disagree with this. The pricelessness of our youth does mean their lives, yes, but… it also includes their virtue. How many statements has the church put out about “the value of families” and excluded homosexuals from that, or directly stated that homosexual marriages and families are not ordained of God? This is a concert that is putting out the idea that homosexuality is okay.

This part:
“We earnestly hope this festival and other related efforts can build respectful communication, better understanding and civility as we all learn from each other.”

I disagree with this. I think there are better things to endorse in order to build a better understanding and civility toward each other. For example (long story short): A while back I worked with a lesbian. We were pretty good friends. She was getting married and asked me to come to the wedding. I told her that I could not come because I did not support it. I expressed this with genuine love but I ended up not going. She completely understood and we remained friends. (side note: I saw her years later and she was no longer married and no longer identified as lesbian and we had no hard feelings). There are ways to build respectful communication and understanding and at the same time not endorsing a homosexual concert.

[marc]

Just love them. I don't agree with them, but they are our children, neighbors, uncles, aunts, best friends, etc. We can live our own lives to persuade them that what Jesus Christ offers is more desirable, but not judge and ostracize them because they sin differently than we do.

I'm struggling with what loving them means. Personally I find homosexuality disgusting. I think it is a deep aberration, before we get to the morality. I would like it if it just didn't exist. In the past I didn't have a problem being around gays, but nowadays I will avoid gays at high cost. Mostly because they will try to destroy your life if you don't toe the LGBTW line and are mostly trying to get you to submit to their beliefs.

I would prefer to avoid gays altogether for this reason.

Start looking inward. Ask yourself how God can love you despite your sinful and fallen state. When you can begin to see yourself as God sees you and when you begin to feel how much He loves you, you will begin to learn to love others the same. But it won't happen unless you begin to reach out to God, and also to them.

[Seek the Truth]

I should add that i live in a major City where LGBTW is off the charts. LBGTW is literally the central plank of daily life. Every local outlet and everyone I live around/connected to on social promotes homosexuality nonstop. I can't do much without running into public displays of homosexuality, and having it rammed down everyone's throat with the end goal of total submission to their belief system.

It's had an effect on me. I've just had enough. If I say one thing not in lockstep with LGBTW my life will be over. There is no way I could be employable or be able to operate in any neighborhood.

[Seek the Truth]

I should say at a certain point you can go from acceptance to an abettor. LGBTW today demands allegiance. In my area they are easily the most intolerant people I've ever been around.

[marc]

Seek the Truth. I like that name. It instills desire. Should we not love our enemies? Bless them that persecute us? How better to witness to heaven that we desire to be like those who dwell in heaven by doing what heavenly people would do?

[Sunain]

When does the virtue of tolerance become the sin of acceptance?

I think many members have already crossed that line through promotion and association with events like this that promote sinful lifestyles.

[e-eye2.0]

Due to the fact that these announcements are vetted through the church leadership they can be a big statement. Elizabeth - do you disagree with the church's statement? If your not an active member or member at all I can understand an opposing view but otherwise it is what it is.

I'm an active member of the church and I disagree with the statement.

Great - which part of the statement do you disagree with? Is it what the church actually said or the potential message it sends? I didn't see anything in the statement that was incorrect in our beliefs.
[/quote]

This part:
“We applaud the LoveLoud Festival for LGBTQ Youth’s aim to bring people together to address teen safety…”

I do not think they should applaud the festival. The proceeds are not all going to a good cause. I do not think the festival promotes teen safety, especially since homosexual intercourse is not safe or virtuous.

This part:
“We share common beliefs, among them the pricelessness of our youth and the value of families.”

I disagree with this. The pricelessness of our youth does mean their lives, yes, but… it also includes their virtue. How many statements has the church put out about “the value of families” and excluded homosexuals from that, or directly stated that homosexual marriages and families are not ordained of God? This is a concert that is putting out the idea that homosexuality is okay.

This part:
“We earnestly hope this festival and other related efforts can build respectful communication, better understanding and civility as we all learn from each other.”

I disagree with this. I think there are better things to endorse in order to build a better understanding and civility toward each other. For example (long story short): A while back I worked with a lesbian. We were pretty good friends. She was getting married and asked me to come to the wedding. I told her that I could not come because I did not support it. I expressed this with genuine love but I ended up not going. She completely understood and we remained friends. (side note: I saw her years later and she was no longer married and no longer identified as lesbian and we had no hard feelings). There are ways to build respectful communication and understanding and at the same time not endorsing a homosexual concert.
[/quote]

Don't get me wrong I am not defending their action but here is the way I see it and why I don't have a problem:

“We applaud the LoveLoud Festival for LGBTQ Youth’s aim to bring people together to address teen safety…”

I don't have an issue with this. The mission statement that is at least posted is this: TREVOR PROJECT -The Trevor Project is the leading national organization providing crisis intervention and suicide prevention services to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning (LGBTQ) young people ages 13-24.
I am not judging if they are telling the truth on their intention but if it is true that's a good cause. If I had a gay kid or brother or sister of something in our religion I would assume the high potential for this issue.

“We share common beliefs, among them the pricelessness of our youth and the value of families. - Once again I know we believe this and if you have known any gay couples raising a kid I would say they feel the same way about their kids. Their idea of right and wrong is different but I think both care for those suffering mentally. -
I think this is just finding common ground. Yes we may actually understand the eternal ramifications but that doesn't mean they don't care about people.

“We earnestly hope this festival and other related efforts can build respectful communication, better understanding and civility as we all learn from each other.” - Better things, things worse things other things - I don't disagree, but this is what the church is promoting and the reason, going back to the Trevor Project, appears to be a good opportunity to show love and concern for those with same sex attraction - in fact I think it's a great opportunity. I think the wording is very well said and when you put it all together I think it makes sense.

I think this statement shows that we are still trying to save souls before it's too late. As this nation continues to rip apart the family we are running out of time before the calamities that we were warned about in the Family A Proclamation to the World come to fruition. Not judging you personally but the thought comes to mind. Who is worse off the one who is unwilling to help the sinner or the sinner.

[Seek the Truth]

I think I may be further down the road. Sure, love them, then what?

When they demand you submit to their belief system or be destroyed what then.

That's where I'm at.

[Seek the Truth]

When does the virtue of tolerance become the sin of acceptance?

I think many members have already crossed that line through promotion and association with events like this that promote sinful lifestyles.

Gay mormons exist. What do we do about it. How do you acknowledge existence without sanctioning behaviour.

Keep in mind, in the USA we would not restrict behaviour.

When they ask us to condone then what.

[marc]

I think I may be further down the road. Sure, love them, then what?

When they demand you submit to their belief system or be destroyed what then.

That's where I'm at.

Well, I suppose Jesus would be destroyed. If I lived in a city where they came to my door with torches and pitchforks, I would not submit. But I can still pray for them and forgive them with my dying breath.

[Seek the Truth]

I don't know. I saw what Jesus did with the Pharisees and Sadducees and it wasn't that submissive. Further, his beloved disciple Peter he referred to as Satan. Jesus didn't have any problem getting in people's grill. He laid down his life for us but that is another story. He allowed it to happen.

I'm ok with acceptance, long before it was cool, but not ok with submission.

In the city/county I am in if I were to let it be known on social that I am LDS or think homosexuality is a sin the possibility of violence against me would be quite high, and no chance I would keep my job or find another one here.

[e-eye2.0]

I don't know. I saw what Jesus did with the Pharisees and Sadducees and it wasn't that submissive. Further, his beloved disciple Peter he referred to as Satan. Jesus didn't have any problem getting in people's grill. He laid down his life for us but that is another story. He allowed it to happen.

I'm ok with acceptance, long before it was cool, but not ok with submission.

In the city/county I am in if I were to let it be known on social that I am LDS or think homosexuality is a sin the possibility of violence against me would be quite high, and no chance I would keep my job or find another one here.

Those living a telestial life are going to have rough go at it when the Savior returns. I think some members look at this statement that we are submitting but we are not. We know that wickedness will continue to get more wicked until the final day. Persecution will come, I don't think it's here yet but it will come and it's going to cause some members to doubt what they believe as it's not going to be pretty.

[marc]

I don't know. I saw what Jesus did with the Pharisees and Sadducees and it wasn't that submissive. Further, his beloved disciple Peter he referred to as Satan. Jesus didn't have any problem getting in people's grill. He laid down his life for us but that is another story. He allowed it to happen.

I'm ok with acceptance, long before it was cool, but not ok with submission.

In the city/county I am in if I were to let it be known on social that I am LDS or think homosexuality is a sin the possibility of violence against me would be quite high, and no chance I would keep my job or find another one here.

It wasn't His time yet. When it was, He completely and utterly submitted. He healed one of them (Malchus), and pleaded with Father to forgive them all while he hung bleeding. Anyway, I'm not looking to argue. I understand your position.

[Seek the Truth]

We're in a dance, that's for sure. I suppose my real issue with all of this is that this an agenda item for the secular globalists. I don't think this is a conflict with gays, I think they are being used as human shields. This whole thing is so incredibly dishonest

[David13]

It just was not necessary for the church to "come out" as a "rah rah" cheerleader for this event.
dc

[Elizabeth]

Hey.. how about LDS Public Relations issue a statement to the world regarding an event... say a local fundraising for "whatever"... is that what an official statement from The WORLD WIDE Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has now descended to ?

Another unfortunate statement
Disappointing, and yes not even news worthy.

In the Salt Lake/Utah media environment every new release sent out by the church is by definition news worthy.

Due to the fact that these announcements are vetted through the church leadership they can be a big statement. Elizabeth - do you disagree with the church's statement? If your not an active member or member at all I can understand an opposing view but otherwise it is what it is.

[e-eye2.0]

Hey.. how about LDS Public Relations issue a statement to the world regarding an event... say a local fundraising for "whatever"... is that what an official statement from The WORLD WIDE Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has now descended to ?

Another unfortunate statement
Disappointing, and yes not even news worthy.

In the Salt Lake/Utah media environment every new release sent out by the church is by definition news worthy.

Due to the fact that these announcements are vetted through the church leadership they can be a big statement. Elizabeth - do you disagree with the church's statement? If your not an active member or member at all I can understand an opposing view but otherwise it is what it is.

Some say the church doesn't say enough and some say it should be quiet.

[Seek the Truth]

I assumed with the election of Trump that the forced gay temple marriages would go back burner. Now, I'm not so sure. LGBTW media pressure is so high these days no one but Trump would stand up to them and we can't count on Trump for everything. As I said earlier, I don't think this is about gays, they are the human shields.

Point being if we don't do something we'll be forced to sign opinion papers pledging our support of gay sexual activity in order to stay out of jail.

[kittycat51]

Just love them. I don't agree with them, but they are our children, neighbors, uncles, aunts, best friends, etc. We can live our own lives to persuade them that what Jesus Christ offers is more desirable, but not judge and ostracize them because they sin differently than we do.

I'm struggling with what loving them means. Personally I find homosexuality disgusting. I think it is a deep aberration, before we get to the morality. I would like it if it just didn't exist. In the past I didn't have a problem being around gays, but nowadays I will avoid gays at high cost. Mostly because they will try to destroy your life if you don't toe the LGBTW line and are mostly trying to get you to submit to their beliefs.

I would prefer to avoid gays altogether for this reason.

You must not have any family members who practice it then? I have an uncle whom I adore that I have known my whole life was gay. I could never shun him or turn him away. I don't agree and NEVER will with his lifestyle choices. I still love and enjoy being around him though. I also have several gay cousins. I think marc had it correct. "...not ostracize them because they sin differently THAN WE DO."

WWJD?

[Seek the Truth]

I think my statement was misunderstood. Where I live LGBTW requires condoning gay sex. You are required to condone homosexual acts or be destroyed, socially. Loss of job and ability to live in this area.

As such I avoid the topic and gays in particular like the plague. One wrong word and my life is over. In the past I've worked with gays and for 2 years was hanging out with about 100 lesbians. My recollections was I was "fine with it". It's not been until maybe the gay marriage ruling where everything started to change.

[EmmaLee]

WWJD?

D&C 6:9 Say nothing but repentance unto this generation.

D&C 19:31 but thou shalt declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism, and by fire, yea, even the Holy Ghost.

Mosiah 18:20 Yea, even he commanded them that they should preach nothing save it were repentance and faith on the Lord, who had redeemed his people.

[drtanner]

Why would a world wide church choose to issue a statement like this? I've sat with youth who have bawled there eyes out because they have been conditioned to think that they are sinners simply because they are attracted to people of the same gender. Parents and leaders explaining to them that it is just a phase and will pass. It was also one of the most spiritual experiences of my life to watch the burden lifted when they realized that it is okay to be attracted to people of the same gender as long as you don't entertain anything that would violate the law of chastity. Having listened to quite a few youth in this scenario my thought is there seems to be a great mis-understanding with LGBTW individuals and the church is attempting to help pave the way for Gay members to remain active, loved, and worthy, and those who are not members to recognize that we would gladly welcome them in our church but will love them regardless of whether they join.

[Sunain]

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Perhaps Church Headquarters needs to review the temple recommend questions if they keep putting out press statements like this LGBTQ concert event.

I feel as though the church is drifting farther and farther away from the correct principles of the gospel to appeal to the precepts of men and not rock the boat in the United States. :ymdevil:

[larsenb]

. . . . . .

Though one of the older generation 55+, I agree with the essence of these thoughts. Since this became an issue in recent years, even to the point of having one of those 5th Sunday joint priesthood/relief society devoted to the subject, my message has been somewhat different than some.

The essence of my point has been that while so many, esp. LDS have been stimulated to develop and speak to strong feelings on this subject I think they tend to forget certain very important elements. We all tend to agree that the behaviors we decry are wrong. They are a sign of the times and indicators of the depravity of a society.

However, I frankly feel that for all of the judgmental rhetoric that those who feel so justified in their condemnation freely announce, they are forgetting that it is not only the LGBTQ community that will be judged but to perhaps greater effect the responses of those who feel safe in their sanctimony are also being judged for how they respond to the people who manifests such behaviors. While, I feel inclined to condemn the behaviors by which the LGBTQ identify themselves I am appalled by the willingness of some to condemn the people and to their detriment, and I believe ultimate loss may well be judgements against them. In other words as we judge them so shall we be judged. Best to love them and be welcoming to the people for their state as fellow children of God and let Christ handle the judgment portion of eternity. So let it be written...do let it be done.(Ramses)

A few years ago I was following links from Makow, who had put out some piece or other on LGBTQ behavior/lifestyle, and one displayed a video of a street in SF that was blocked off and guarded by SF police to protect the 'gay' activities going on all up and down the street in several clusters of gay men and myriad on-lookers walking up and down the street scoping out the scene.

Having attended Gay parades in SF in the distant past w/groups intent on realizing a certain liberal chic entertainment, this scene went waaaaaay beyond what I had seen in these earlier expressions of 'Gay pride'.

The public behavior being display was depraved to the max . . . but at the same time it did seem like a natural progression from the relatively tame scene I remember from the '70's . . . . and was dominated by multiple examples of a certain oral activities in plain view. Young men doing certain things in open windows and letting the resulting product spray out into the street below. Etc.

I don't think 'sanctimony' covers the normal reaction most people have toward such activity; nor does their reaction (unless they are on board with such things), include seeing the participants as loving or lovable people that you want to introduce your kids to or have over for dinner.

Semantics aside, if one finds certain activities morally repugnant and abhorrent, especially public displays of same, you have an obligation to speak out against them and those who participate in them. Implicit in this kind of condemnation, is a judgement of those who engage in them. You can avoid directly condemning them by just addressing their behavior. But the personal condemnation of the participants is still there, even though implied. Doesn't matter how you dress it up.

And like the scene I describe above, once you stop holding the line, where does it all stop? It doesn't. You're in retreat and keep falling back on redoubt positions until you end up w/the SF scene and even worse.

I heartily concur with condemnation of such activities as you have witnessed. And renting that hotel room across the way with your binoculars in hand surely contributed to the morally repugnant responses ... Just kidding... :ymsmug: ...

Still, your response and experience is not the one I am observing in a joint Sunday meeting of adult LDS. Utah tends to be so insulated that you only see what you go find for yourself and a majority profess ignorance of the degree of depravity that you are commenting to having witnessed. So for the sake of the discussion I'll hang with what I observe as being sanctimonious to some degree.

On the other side of the coin, over the years I have known many of such preference. There is a militant arm in some small degree but for the most part in certain respects they are some of the nicest people I have known. I sorrow for the choices they make that will ultimately condemn them but a sinner is a sinner is a sinner and sadly, I be one too.

I didn't witness it. I saw sections of a video recording it.

Not sure where you are going with: "your response and experience is not the one I am observing in a joint Sunday meeting of adult LDS". Clarity check.

Regardless of whether anyone does or does not go looking for such things, are you OK w/what is depicted in this video happening on the streets of Utah cities and guarded and protected by Utah police . . . . as long as you don't see it happening? Is there no categorical imperative regarding such, in operation with you? Hmm . . . . who would have thought.

And your "militant arm in some small degree" is also quite astonishing. Certainly you've been aware of how this 'militant arm' is upending centuries old societal norms, and has accelerated enormously in just the last 20 years.

Knowing 'nice gays' is nice. But it's also true that they probably wanted to be a lot nicer to you than you realized.

[Elizabeth]

I refuse to use the word "gay". I remember the original meaning before being stolen.

Homosexual, homo, perverted, same sex, are words I use if circumstances require a comment.