LDS Church issues statement of support for LGBTQ concert event

[bbsion]

I refuse to use the word "gay". I remember the original meaning before being stolen.

Homosexual, homo, perverted, same sex, are words I use if circumstances require a comment.

My mom's name is Gay. Back in the day it meant happy. I prefer to use the word "homosexual" but sometimes "gay" still slips. That is classic satan, taking things that mean well and then twisting it. Like the rainbow.

[bbsion]

...
“We applaud the LoveLoud Festival for LGBTQ Youth’s aim to bring people together to address teen safety…”

I don't have an issue with this. The mission statement that is at least posted is this: TREVOR PROJECT -The Trevor Project is the leading national organization providing crisis intervention and suicide prevention services to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning (LGBTQ) young people ages 13-24.
I am not judging if they are telling the truth on their intention but if it is true that's a good cause. If I had a gay kid or brother or sister of something in our religion I would assume the high potential for this issue. Then why not just donate to the Trevor Project?

“We share common beliefs, among them the pricelessness of our youth and the value of families. - Once again I know we believe this and if you have known any gay couples raising a kid I would say they feel the same way about their kids. Their idea of right and wrong is different but I think both care for those suffering mentally. Sure most of them care for those suffering mentally. Not arguing that... but if they do have a different idea of right and wrong then that is a huge red flag about their ideas of family I think.

I think this is just finding common ground. Yes we may actually understand the eternal ramifications but that doesn't mean they don't care about people. I never said they didn't.

“We earnestly hope this festival and other related efforts can build respectful communication, better understanding and civility as we all learn from each other.” - Better things, things worse things other things - I don't disagree, but this is what the church is promoting and the reason, going back to the Trevor Project, appears to be a good opportunity to show love and concern for those with same sex attraction - in fact I think it's a great opportunity. I think the wording is very well said and when you put it all together I think it makes sense. It does make political sense doesn't it?

I think this statement shows that we are still trying to save souls before it's too late. As this nation continues to rip apart the family we are running out of time before the calamities that we were warned about in the Family A Proclamation to the World come to fruition. Not judging you personally but the thought comes to mind. Who is worse off the one who is unwilling to help the sinner or the sinner. Now you're assuming...

There might be a misunderstanding here. I am not ostracizing or hating homosexuals because I do not support a homosexual concert. I shared my story because I thought that it showed you can still be friends with and be civil toward people who are homosexual because they are individuals. You do not have to endorse public LGBTQ events to get that point across. I don’t hate gay people. They are not all one person. They are individual people with attractions that are not condoned by God. I do have a problem with the church coming out with an official statement that essentially applauds a homosexual concert. If it’s not a homosexual concert then why don't they just remove “LGBTQ” from the title and stop talking about homosexual teens? Just say “this is a concert where we want all people to feel included and safe.” But they have to slap a label on the concert and send all of the proceeds to some charities I do not agree with. I already voiced my opinion on the Trevor Project.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people automatically have this urge to defend the church no matter what. When their urge should be to defend the truth no matter what. The church is a great vehicle to bring us the true, fullness of the Gospel. But, it’s prone to making mistakes. In my opinion, this is one of them.

[passionflower]

Why would a world wide church choose to issue a statement like this? I've sat with youth who have bawled there eyes out because they have been conditioned to think that they are sinners simply because they are attracted to people of the same gender. Parents and leaders explaining to them that it is just a phase and will pass. It was also one of the most spiritual experiences of my life to watch the burden lifted when they realized that it is okay to be attracted to people of the same gender as long as you don't entertain anything that would violate the law of chastity. Having listened to quite a few youth in this scenario my thought is there seems to be a great mis-understanding with LGBTW individuals and the church is attempting to help pave the way for Gay members to remain active, loved, and worthy, and those who are not members to recognize that we would gladly welcome them in our church but will love them regardless of whether they join.

I know a couple women in our ward who say they are bisexual, meaning attracted to men and women. They don't make a big issue of it, and they are wonderful, faithful, and keep their temple covenants. I love them like they're my own daughters.

But how much sympathy would we be giving if this was a pedophile support event? Would the church issue a statement saying we should love and accept them, too? Is it OK to be sexually attracted to children, as long as you don't act on it? Should people be parading that deviancy in public, too? Why single out homosexuality?

And would it be equally accurate to describe a person as an adulterer if they are attracted to a person other than their spouse, even if they don't act on it? Is that also OK? Should they also be openly sharing their temptations?

Honestly, I have a lot of unanswered questions on this subject. But I can't help but feel like all this outpouring of sympathy for one group of people is directly due to the massive, decades-long, all-fronts indoctrination campaign by the leftist gay lobby. And a generous dose of fear of being ostracized from the community if you don't get on board.

Good questions. Really good questions.

And on any of those other issues, the answers would be "no". Absolutely not. According to the Saviour, just feeling any of these feelings in your heart is reason for condemnation, even if you never act on them. But the fact is, you WILL act on what is in your heart, one day, one way or another. " As a man thinketh, in his heart, so is he."

As I read your post here, all l could think of is what you called "the all-fronts indoctrination campaign by the leftist gay lobby" to place homosexuality on the same level as straight sex. Like as in gay marraige.

They wouldn't be able to make this argument if sex stopped equaling "love" and if the romantic companionship type marraige had never replaced marraiges arranged by parents. And who, no matter what you tell them, believes sex equals love? Women. And who is the most horrified at the thought of an arranged marraige? Women.

The women's rights movement, which has been on the rise for several hundreds of years and only reached its apex in the late 1960's, is plenty responsible for these gay lobbyists gaining as much power in society as they have, along with popularizing all other sorts of immorality, too. After women won the right to vote here in the US, the roaring 20's came about, with it's own trivializing of femininity, masculinity, motherhood, marraige, divorce, and morality. Homosexuality was published broadly and even popular songs were sung about it. How exciting, women said, to be in a world where boys were girls and girls were boys.

Whenever feminism has risen, and it has many times in the history of the world, homosexuality has comes right on its heels, like a dog on a leash dragging only slightly behind its master. In Greece there was a feminist movement that was based around goddess worship cults. No wonder he tells women to be silent in the churches, and goes on to condemn fornication and homosexuality in almost the same breath.

[Sunain]

I think statements like the one the church has just released are simply designed to indulge the church in procrastination. It will eventually have to come down off of the fence and roundly condemn homosexuality as the deep evil and wickedness it is. It will be forced to call a spade a spade, and consequently lose it's tax exemption and undergo various levels of official and public persecution.
I can't see this happening at present, with the current 15 leading brethren stuffed full of lawyers and various businessmen who have spent a lifetime courting compromise and pointing the other way.
As Hugh Nibley once wrote: "From leaders to managers, the fatal shift".

This is exactly what is happening. Between the hate laws being passed in North America and then the tax exemption removal, it all comes down to money and persecution. The church has always been for standing up for what's right regardless of persecution. The church has had persecution since its founding, so I don't know why they are trying to appease the world like this rather than standing up for what we believe. I just don't like them giving support to an event like this in any way. They should have just not even commented on the event.

[Gage]

Making a big deal about nothing, they simply trying to say everyone hug it out and get along and respect opposing views, a little Prop 8 damage control maybe. The Church cannot come out and say homosexuals are going to hell, not with today's society and today's Mormons, they would lose half the membership.

[Fiannan]

My prediction? The secular culture will continue to warm up to all the new lifestyles and so religion will seek to not look out of step and will try its best to accomodate.

Except...

Islam. Islam will stand firm and eventually many more traditional people who feel out of place in the "modern" culture will convert to Islam.

[paid2play]

Making a big deal about nothing, they simply trying to say everyone hug it out and get along and respect opposing views, a little Prop 8 damage control maybe. The Church cannot come out and say homosexuals are going to hell, not with today's society and today's Mormons, they would lose half the membership.

are you then saying it is more important that the church has numbers then telling the people to repent?

[Z2100]

Making a big deal about nothing, they simply trying to say everyone hug it out and get along and respect opposing views, a little Prop 8 damage control maybe. The Church cannot come out and say homosexuals are going to hell, not with today's society and today's Mormons, they would lose half the membership.

You are bascailly right. But the church shouldn't-of said anything at all.

[Fiannan]

Making a big deal about nothing, they simply trying to say everyone hug it out and get along and respect opposing views, a little Prop 8 damage control maybe. The Church cannot come out and say homosexuals are going to hell, not with today's society and today's Mormons, they would lose half the membership.

You are bascailly right. But the church shouldn't-of said anything at all.

Lately teh announcements people are seeing from the PR department are generating a lot of antagonism from the core base of the Church.

[Col. Flagg]

Another unfortunate statement
Disappointing, and yes not even news worthy.

In the Salt Lake/Utah media environment every new release sent out by the church is by definition news worthy.

Due to the fact that these announcements are vetted through the church leadership they can be a big statement. Elizabeth - do you disagree with the church's statement? If your not an active member or member at all I can understand an opposing view but otherwise it is what it is.

I'm an active member of the church and I disagree with the statement.

Careful - you could be disciplined for this if it gets to the wrong ears. :-$

[Col. Flagg]

Why even release a statement about it??? Seems to me that the majority of decisions emanating from Salt Lake these days are based upon numbers and demographics - they are acting in ways that they believe will increase membership which will increase their bottom line while at the same time preserving their tax-exempt status. The more LGBT's believe the church is with them, the more likely membership will increase. The church does and says things to protect itself, its tax-exempt status and bottom line. Sorry, but that's just the truth. Why do you think they changed the missionary age for young men from 19 to 18? It was calculated to help prevent young men from getting too involved in school, with girls, a job, etc. right out of high school so that more young men serve a mission which increases the likelihood for membership numbers. We have a mammoth Babylonian corporation running the church right now with what Joseph restored 190 years ago being a mere shadow of itself. Good grief, just look at all the real estate projects nationwide, a multi-billion dollar mall in downtown SLC, a massive $500 million conference center, for profit businesses all over the place and even the executive salaries/perks the brethren receive - these are all actions of an earthly corporation more than a church of Christ. Just ask Daymon Smith.

[Sirocco]

My prediction? The secular culture will continue to warm up to all the new lifestyles and so religion will seek to not look out of step and will try its best to accomodate.

Except...

Islam. Islam will stand firm and eventually many more traditional people who feel out of place in the "modern" culture will convert to Islam.

I would rather die.

As much as I would like a traditional family, I would never, could never be Muslim.

[e-eye2.0]

Why even release a statement about it??? Seems to me that the majority of decisions emanating from Salt Lake these days are based upon the tithe-payer - they are acting in ways that they believe will increase membership which will increase their bottom line while at the same time preserving their tax-exempt status. The more LGBT's believe the church is with them, the more likely membership will increase. That's how I see it. The church does and says things to protect itself, its tax-exempt status and bottom line. Sorry, but that's just the truth. Why do you think they changed the missionary age for young men from 19 to 18? It was calculated to help prevent young men from getting too involved in school, with girls, a job, etc. right out of high school so that more young men serve a mission which increases the likelihood for membership numbers. We have a mammoth Babylonian corporation running the church right now. Good grief, just look at all the real estate projects nationwide, a multi-billion dollar mall in downtown SLC, a massive $500 million conference center, for profit businesses all over the place and even the executive salaries/perks the brethren receive - these are all actions of an earthly corporation, not church of Christ.

Col - this isn't about gaining members you have to think deeper. Gay people love to shop and what better place than a big mall. This was always about making the gays happy so they would shop more at the church mall - if the mall fails it looks bad so they must do anything they can to keep people shopping there. Next I hear polygamy is coming back because - women love to shop. More women more shopping.

[Col. Flagg]

Why even release a statement about it??? Seems to me that the majority of decisions emanating from Salt Lake these days are based upon the tithe-payer - they are acting in ways that they believe will increase membership which will increase their bottom line while at the same time preserving their tax-exempt status. The more LGBT's believe the church is with them, the more likely membership will increase. That's how I see it. The church does and says things to protect itself, its tax-exempt status and bottom line. Sorry, but that's just the truth. Why do you think they changed the missionary age for young men from 19 to 18? It was calculated to help prevent young men from getting too involved in school, with girls, a job, etc. right out of high school so that more young men serve a mission which increases the likelihood for membership numbers. We have a mammoth Babylonian corporation running the church right now. Good grief, just look at all the real estate projects nationwide, a multi-billion dollar mall in downtown SLC, a massive $500 million conference center, for profit businesses all over the place and even the executive salaries/perks the brethren receive - these are all actions of an earthly corporation, not church of Christ.

Col - this isn't about gaining members you have to think deeper. Gay people love to shop and what better place than a big mall. This was always about making the gays happy so they would shop more at the church mall - if the mall fails it looks bad so they must do anything they can to keep people shopping there. Next I hear polygamy is coming back because - women love to shop. More women more shopping.

What was I thinking?

[Gage]

Making a big deal about nothing, they simply trying to say everyone hug it out and get along and respect opposing views, a little Prop 8 damage control maybe. The Church cannot come out and say homosexuals are going to hell, not with today's society and today's Mormons, they would lose half the membership.

are you then saying it is more important that the church has numbers then telling the people to repent?

No, not trying to say that. I actually wish they would stand stronger on the issue, or like others say, just keep quiet and dont say anything. But I will say this, it was terrible to see good members in my ward leave the church over the Church's stance on homosexuality and all that Prop 8 mess. They saw the Church as "haters" and bigots.

[msfreeh]

http://www.wanttoknow.info/inspiration/ ... _mentality


Transcending Tribal Mentality
By Caroline Myss

Transcending Tribal Mentality
All of us are born into a "tribal mentality" of various forms. These include our family unit, religious background, country of origin, ethnicity, etc. The tribal mentality effectively indoctrinates an individual into the tribe's beliefs, ensuring that all believe the same. The structure of reality – what is and is not possible for the members of the group – is thus agreed upon and maintained by the tribe.

While the tribal mentality has definite benefits in terms of establishing common ground and ensuring group survival, it is not a conscious agreement. We are born into it. Yet at a certain stage, both personally and collectively, the tribal mentality must be challenged. People can then begin to recognize the need for a personal honor code independent of the tribe. If humanity is to progress, we need to learn how to treat everyone – regardless of tribal affiliation – with honor and respect.

Every one of us is plugged into the tribal mind. We support tribal belief patterns by directing a percentage of our life force into maintaining our affiliation with the tribe. This involves an implicit agreement to think like the tribe thinks, to evaluate situations and people the way the tribe does, and to believe in right and wrong according to tribal values and ambitions. As long as the tribal mentality within us remains unexamined, we unwittingly subject others to our tribal laws.

When we are plugged into tribal thought forms, we can easily believe in nonsensical prejudices held by the tribe. Tribal mentality allows us to hold harsh, judgmental positions or attitudes about an entire group of people: "All fat people are lazy," or "all Irish are drunks," or "all Muslims are terrorists" for example.

A rigid tribal thought form may have little truth to it, but individuals hold to such beliefs because that perspective is what the tribe has agreed to believe. Innocent children, born into the hatred and prejudice of their parents and ancestors, grow up inside a tribal mentality that sponsors an endless march toward war against the tribe's perceived enemies. People grow up hating other people – people they have never seen – based on group affiliation. This is the shadow side of the tribe.

Inevitably, some among us come to a point where we want to break out of the inflexible tribal mentality. At some point, these individuals want to explore, develop, and manage their own consciousness without the judgments and limitations of the tribal mind.

It is easy to spot these mavericks when they start to question and unplug from tribal mentality – they hang out on the periphery looking bored and restless, or whimsical and dreamy. Others may act out the agitated hot-head as they challenge tribal ways.

The unspoken assumption of the tribal mind is that everybody loves being part of the tribe. And in many ways, we do. Knowing where and to whom we "belong" is crucial to our self-concept and sense of safety in the world. Yet when we begin the real deep journey of questioning, "What do I believe?" and start to individuate from the tribe, we often enter a dark night of the soul. It is, by necessity, a passage we take alone.

It's one thing to reject what we don't want to believe anymore. It's quite another to begin to explore what we do believe. All we know as we enter the dark night is that we can't go back – even when the tribe is the only world we've ever known.

At this critical point in our development, the tribe doesn't feel right anymore. It no longer offers us comfort. Previous feelings of security and familiarity begin to feel like a trap constraining our individuality and hampering our efforts to discover deeper levels of who we really are.

This dark night passage pushes us to look at our false gods – the tribal belief patterns in which we've become invested and to which we've given our allegiance.

The Language of Wounds

For a large segment of the population, the language of wounds has become the new tribal language of intimacy. Prior to the current age of personal therapy – which only really took off in the 1960s and 70s – the tribal language of intimacy largely involved the sharing of only superficial personal and family data. Deeper matters such as family secrets like sexual abuse or a mad aunt or uncle were shared with exceedingly few, if any.

Divorce and financial information were also considered very intimate. People would almost never talk about such matters, or about their inner life and emotions. They talked only about the details of what was going on in their external lives. The tribal mentality at the time kept people from revealing intimate matters or deep wounds or traumas even with their family and close friends.

The current age of personal therapy has brought about a very different situation. Now, the tribal mentality has shifted such that we not only share our intimate feelings more openly and willingly, many have even begun to define themselves by their wounds. Let me give an example of how this phenomenon plays itself out.

I was in an Indian restaurant in Scotland talking with two men friends when the woman friend I was to meet for dinner walked up and greeted the three of us. After I had introduced her, another man walked over and asked if she was free on June 8th, as he thought she might like to attend a lecture on that date. The question required little more than a ‘yes' or a ‘no' answer.

Instead of a simple answer, she began an elaborate discussion about June 8th. "Did you say June 8th? No, no. Any other day would be fine, but not June 8th. That's the day my incest survivor group meets and I have to be there because we never let each other down." She went on and on for at least a full minute with this.

Later, I asked her, "Do you realize that in that brief introduction, you told two men whom you have never met before that 1) you had experienced incest, 2) you were still in therapy about it, 3) you were angry about it, 4) you were angry at men, and 5) you needed to determine the course of the conversation – all in one minute?"

She replied, "Well, I am a victim of incest."

To which I replied, "I know that. Why did you have to let them know that?"

She was operating from a tribal mentality. The group mind within the incest survivor community has a belief about how this particular wound should be healed. The tribe says, "You need a group." The tribe says, "You have a right to be angry."

People now get together in support group tribes that function within many of the same rigid frameworks of ethnic, national, or family tribes. Some feel that the comfort and security of belonging to a group or tribe is more important than venturing alone in the direction of real healing.

Tribalism in Relationships

The tendency toward tribalism can keep us stuck in repeating negative cycles in our intimate relationships, and can wreak havoc when a relationship is ripe for transition. Tribal mentality often teaches a righteous stance in relationships: an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. When we feel violated, the first thought is vengeance, rather than forgiveness.

Tribal mentality even has gender-specific undercurrents – women do vengeance differently than men. Yet for both genders, what rules the day is the tribal mentality that holds "breaking up is painful" or "betrayal warrants retaliation."

Healing revolves around this crucial question: "Do you want to make different choices?" Are we willing to let go of old, constricting tribal patterns? Sadly, the answer quite often is "No." Being healthy isn't always the most appealing option. Quite frankly, in many cases, it's not appealing at all. What is most appealing is being out of pain. Old patterns are difficult to relinquish because they do serve to relieve pain, even if it is only in the short run.

Change is terrifying for many precisely because short-term pain relief must be given up. Deep healing requires learning to tolerate the pain that comes with change. Fortunately, the growing pains that come with new behavior – with making the choices that will change your life – are often short-lived.

Thought alone doesn't heal. Nor does action without thought. For deep healing to occur, we need the chemistry of conscious thought and direct action combined. Every thought or attitude we have – whether consciously chosen or unconsciously adopted through the tribal mind – invests a part of our life-force into that thought or attitude. This is true whether the thought is one of betrayal and vengeance, or of understanding and forgiveness.

What matters is that a whole system of consciousness – the old tribal mentality – no longer holds us enthralled. We no longer have faith in those limiting patterns of thought. Through this transformation we learn a whole new level of trust. We break the habit of telling tribal lies which bring short-term comfort but long-term pain. We develop a new sense of self-worth and of trust and honor.

In spite of all the heavy tribal conditioning, we now have hope because tribal mentality the world over is going through a vast transformation. And each one of us can play a vital role in this transformation.

With increasing numbers of individuals changing and transcending limiting tribal beliefs, the codes of the tribe are being affected. As we collectively change and evolve, the tribes around us gradually change and evolve with us. Yet ultimately, the journey upon which we are embarking is an incredible solo flight of transcending the tribe to find our own trust, honor, and new sense of self-worth and meaning in life.

[Col. Flagg]

Making a big deal about nothing, they simply trying to say everyone hug it out and get along and respect opposing views, a little Prop 8 damage control maybe. The Church cannot come out and say homosexuals are going to hell, not with today's society and today's Mormons, they would lose half the membership.

are you then saying it is more important that the church has numbers then telling the people to repent?

No, not trying to say that. I actually wish they would stand stronger on the issue, or like others say, just keep quiet and dont say anything. But I will say this, it was terrible to see good members in my ward leave the church over the Church's stance on homosexuality and all that Prop 8 mess. They saw the Church as "haters" and bigots.

This is why it is so vital to never put your faith and trust in the arm of the flesh – our testimonies need to be rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ and not in the institutional church. And it is amazing to me how so many members see everything as either black or white – if there is any gray, they equate it to being all black and walk away – ridiculous – there is no such thing as an infallible man in the church, never has been, never will be, save our Savior only. If your testimony is rooted firmly in the gospel of Jesus Christ, nothing the church does or says will cause you to lose it… ever.

[Seek the Truth]

What does the "W" in the LGBTW stand for? Wishing?

Lol I coined that recently, it stands for "whatever". They keep adding item so I'm like let's just put a big open ended one out there.

[Seek the Truth]

This is why it is so vital to never put your faith and trust in the arm of the flesh – our testimonies need to be rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ and not in the institutional church.

Except Jesus told us to.

[e-eye2.0]

This is why it is so vital to never put your faith and trust in the arm of the flesh – our testimonies need to be rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ and not in the institutional church.

Except Jesus told us to.

After all these years I have hoped Col would change his tune about church leadership but it's been the same thing. Men can change but it's hard. I think Col. is a good guy but it's obvious that this is one of his challenges.

[jbalm]

Col. is one of the few sane people on this forum.

[FTC]

what do we do with those people?

"Choose you this day whom ye will serve: … but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Josh. 24:15
There is no way you can spin homosexual to make it work and fit in God's Plan of Salvation. That Plan including "We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife". Until someone is willing to do what they have to to follow that commandment, Yes, they must be rejected from the house(s) that are serving the Lord. Its already been forseen that God will reject so many that they number as numerous as the stars, from the Celestial kingdom and plop them into the Telestial. (D&C 76)
Jesus did NOT eat with the sinners to herald them in their sins. To let them flaunt their sins to His face. He also didn't eat with all sinners. The sinners he ate with were the ones that were wanting to follow His commandments. He ate with them in order to teach them the Gospel so that they would repent of sinning and return to live with God. It should be noted that Jesus did not eat with the Pharisees, Scribes, Saducees, those selling at the Temple, and various others of the like, because those did not want to repent, therefore, He rejected them and let them know how stupid they were for not getting it.

[gardener4life]

I was in California during Prop 8. It was really corrupt. The stand we took was real and right.

Prop 8 was written so that if a bishop or anyone, including businessmen didn't cater and give special service to Gays, queers, and others they could be put in jail and have their property taken. All for no reason. It was a license to hunt non-gays, just like in the days of deer and bison hunting. A lot of people really still don't get how dangerous prop 8 was written for people. There was nothing oppressive against gays and their group in taking a stand; rather it was a self defense action so that lawsuits couldn't be pre-engineered to steal from anyone that wasn't LGBTQ.

If anyone left it was because they weren't actually reading how prop 8 was written.

[passionflower]

Col. is one of the few sane people on this forum.

OK so I'm crazy, but at least I admit it.

But hey, nice to see you!!! I have been really missing you .

[SmallFarm]

Col. is one of the few sane people on this forum.

Insane is the label the conformist gives the free thinker.