Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
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Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump ... 44996.html
WASHINGTON ― President Donald Trump tweeted Wednesday that transgender people will no longer be allowed to serve in the U.S. military “in any capacity” ― a stunning reversal of an Obama-era policy that affects thousands of service members.
The move was wholly unexpected. It’s not clear why Trump decided to announce such a significant policy change via Twitter nor when it would take effect. His timing is also odd: He shared the news in the midst of Senate Republicans’ high-stakes fight to repeal Obamacare this week.
Trump claims he made the move after consulting with military experts, though the Pentagon lifted the ban on transgender service members in 2016 after an exhaustive review of its military readiness policies.
“Our mission is to defend this country, and we don’t want barriers unrelated to a person’s qualification to serve preventing us from recruiting or retaining the soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who can best accomplish the mission,” then-Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said. “We have to have access to 100% of America’s population for our all-volunteer force to be able to recruit from among them the most highly qualified — and to retain them.”
The biggest question is what the news means for the thousands of transgender men and women currently serving in the military. There are as many as 6,630 transgender people in active military service, per a RAND Corp. study. Another group, the Palm Center, put the number as high as 15,500 a few years ago.
Trump appears to have made the announcement without first giving any directives to military officials.
WASHINGTON ― President Donald Trump tweeted Wednesday that transgender people will no longer be allowed to serve in the U.S. military “in any capacity” ― a stunning reversal of an Obama-era policy that affects thousands of service members.
The move was wholly unexpected. It’s not clear why Trump decided to announce such a significant policy change via Twitter nor when it would take effect. His timing is also odd: He shared the news in the midst of Senate Republicans’ high-stakes fight to repeal Obamacare this week.
Trump claims he made the move after consulting with military experts, though the Pentagon lifted the ban on transgender service members in 2016 after an exhaustive review of its military readiness policies.
“Our mission is to defend this country, and we don’t want barriers unrelated to a person’s qualification to serve preventing us from recruiting or retaining the soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who can best accomplish the mission,” then-Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said. “We have to have access to 100% of America’s population for our all-volunteer force to be able to recruit from among them the most highly qualified — and to retain them.”
The biggest question is what the news means for the thousands of transgender men and women currently serving in the military. There are as many as 6,630 transgender people in active military service, per a RAND Corp. study. Another group, the Palm Center, put the number as high as 15,500 a few years ago.
Trump appears to have made the announcement without first giving any directives to military officials.
- markharr
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
The doctrine of Ballam. you can't destroy a righteous nation, you have to corrupt them first.
Also,
They were signing up to get the taxpayers to fund their expensive gender reassignment surgery and not re-upping when their three years was up.
Also,
They were signing up to get the taxpayers to fund their expensive gender reassignment surgery and not re-upping when their three years was up.
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
I'm glad he's doing this.
It makes sense and they were foolish to allow it in the first place.
They say we need people who are willing to fight for the country and it really doesn't matter who they are or what's wrong with them as far as gender identity or sexual preference. Fighting is the point of the military but it's not what they do all the time. We have to consider the day to day life of the soldiers and not the emotional pleas of allowing all patriotic people to fight if they want to.
They don't allow plenty of people in military for various reasons. I think confused genitals is a good enough reason.
I'm not too sure about transgenderism but I believe lots of people wanted to be the other gender at some point in the childhood, it's just today that we say it's okay to actually do it and it's messing people up.
It makes sense and they were foolish to allow it in the first place.
They say we need people who are willing to fight for the country and it really doesn't matter who they are or what's wrong with them as far as gender identity or sexual preference. Fighting is the point of the military but it's not what they do all the time. We have to consider the day to day life of the soldiers and not the emotional pleas of allowing all patriotic people to fight if they want to.
They don't allow plenty of people in military for various reasons. I think confused genitals is a good enough reason.
I'm not too sure about transgenderism but I believe lots of people wanted to be the other gender at some point in the childhood, it's just today that we say it's okay to actually do it and it's messing people up.
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
Talk about a logistical nightmare. There are so many reasons why transgendered people in the military would be bad. To name a few: which bathroom do they use, which physical fitness standards are they measured by, which gender's dress and appearance regs do they abide by, which group are they put into in basic training, the list goes on and on.
I am in no way a Trump fan but I'll say that this is a good call. However, he should have met with military leaders and had some kind of a plan in place before announcing it. But this does seem to be a running theme with him.
I am in no way a Trump fan but I'll say that this is a good call. However, he should have met with military leaders and had some kind of a plan in place before announcing it. But this does seem to be a running theme with him.
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
I've heard several reports today that he made this decision after meeting with some of the top generals in our military, and they told him of the expense and other problems they were having with the few transgendered people already in the ranks, and that more would greatly exacerbate the problems.Irrelevant wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 1:27 pm Talk about a logistical nightmare. There are so many reasons why transgendered people in the military would be bad. To name a few: which bathroom do they use, which physical fitness standards are they measured by, which gender's dress and appearance regs do they abide by, which group are they put into in basic training, the list goes on and on.
I am in no way a Trump fan but I'll say that this is a good call. However, he should have met with military leaders and had some kind of a plan in place before announcing it. But this does seem to be a running theme with him.
His method of announcing major decisions by Twitter makes it look like he's governing without much thought or input. In a decision like this, a very formal presidential-looking press conference, flanked by a few high-ranking military men and women would have given more gravitas to this decision. And yes, I agree that he made the right call on this.
- markharr
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
When any republican talks to the press, the press leaves out important context and manipulates their words to present the narrative that they want us to see.Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 2:21 pmI've heard several reports today that he made this decision after meeting with some of the top generals in our military, and they told him of the expense and other problems they were having with the few transgendered people already in the ranks, and that more would greatly exacerbate the problems.Irrelevant wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 1:27 pm Talk about a logistical nightmare. There are so many reasons why transgendered people in the military would be bad. To name a few: which bathroom do they use, which physical fitness standards are they measured by, which gender's dress and appearance regs do they abide by, which group are they put into in basic training, the list goes on and on.
I am in no way a Trump fan but I'll say that this is a good call. However, he should have met with military leaders and had some kind of a plan in place before announcing it. But this does seem to be a running theme with him.
His method of announcing major decisions by Twitter makes it look like he's governing without much thought or input. In a decision like this, a very formal presidential-looking press conference, flanked by a few high-ranking military men and women would have given more gravitas to this decision. And yes, I agree that he made the right call on this.
If this had been done in a press conference the headline would have been Trump bans Transgender from the military without any of the context or reasons provided for making the decision.
With Twitter, it's Trump's words.
- Alaris
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
Then there's the plethora of evidence (that the media and left ignore) that transgenderism is a mental disorder associated with other mental disorders and issues that would affect the military outside the obvious political issues.Irrelevant wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 1:27 pm Talk about a logistical nightmare. There are so many reasons why transgendered people in the military would be bad. To name a few: which bathroom do they use, which physical fitness standards are they measured by, which gender's dress and appearance regs do they abide by, which group are they put into in basic training, the list goes on and on.
I am in no way a Trump fan but I'll say that this is a good call. However, he should have met with military leaders and had some kind of a plan in place before announcing it. But this does seem to be a running theme with him.
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
Give credit where credit is due.
Good job President.
Good job President.
- David13
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
I don't care how he announces it. Just that he does announce it and implement it.
It was a ridiculous thing to begin with.
dc
It was a ridiculous thing to begin with.
dc
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
The liberal media and hollywood will crucify him for this decision. It took a lot of guts for him to do what he did, but he put the needs of the many over the needs of the few. He should be commended for doing what he believed was right. Along with the bunch of loyal security officers who are already assigned to protect him and his family, I pray that Heavenly Father will send a legion of Angels to surround him.
- Sirocco
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- gkearney
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
Not to throw a wet cloth on your celebratory mood but here is something to consider. The transgender ban is, in some ways related to the old idea of banning gays in the military. Something I suspect some here would be in favour of as well.
There is, however, a problem with doing so. In the event of a national mobilization requiring a draft such a policy provides a ready made escape cause to those wishing to avoid military service. Simply claim your gay. It is not as if there is a test that the draft board can apply to know for sure if your gay or not.Now you might say that in the past this option always existed yet few would ever employed it. That is indeed correct but that was then and this is now.
The military relied on the fact that being labeled a homosexual would be a mark of public shame impacting a whole host of social functions in life such as job prospects and so on. This social cost kept most potential draft dodgers from ever employing the tactic of claiming to be homosexuals. This continue into the Viet Nam era.
Now however there is little if any social cost to being labeled a homosexual and so little reason not to make the claim when faced with conscription. So should the administration or the military reimpose the no homosexuals policy, something I don't think they are considering but with Donald Trump you just never know, they they will have inadvertently provided an easy and social cost free means of avoiding military service.
Now of course this doesn't really apply to transsexuals but I could see how it might, again how does the draft board prove that someone presenting themselves to the board and claiming to be a transexual is in fact fibbing? It not as if local draft boards are going to have the resources to do background checks and such and even then what have you proven?
All of this is what falls into the area of unintended consequences.
There is, however, a problem with doing so. In the event of a national mobilization requiring a draft such a policy provides a ready made escape cause to those wishing to avoid military service. Simply claim your gay. It is not as if there is a test that the draft board can apply to know for sure if your gay or not.Now you might say that in the past this option always existed yet few would ever employed it. That is indeed correct but that was then and this is now.
The military relied on the fact that being labeled a homosexual would be a mark of public shame impacting a whole host of social functions in life such as job prospects and so on. This social cost kept most potential draft dodgers from ever employing the tactic of claiming to be homosexuals. This continue into the Viet Nam era.
Now however there is little if any social cost to being labeled a homosexual and so little reason not to make the claim when faced with conscription. So should the administration or the military reimpose the no homosexuals policy, something I don't think they are considering but with Donald Trump you just never know, they they will have inadvertently provided an easy and social cost free means of avoiding military service.
Now of course this doesn't really apply to transsexuals but I could see how it might, again how does the draft board prove that someone presenting themselves to the board and claiming to be a transexual is in fact fibbing? It not as if local draft boards are going to have the resources to do background checks and such and even then what have you proven?
All of this is what falls into the area of unintended consequences.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
The way I see this is that if someone is prepared to do this in order to avoid serving their country, I would not want them in my foxhole.gkearney wrote: ↑July 27th, 2017, 5:31 am Not to throw a wet cloth on your celebratory mood but here is something to consider. The transgender ban is, in some ways related to the old idea of banning gays in the military. Something I suspect some here would be in favour of as well.
There is, however, a problem with doing so. In the event of a national mobilization requiring a draft such a policy provides a ready made escape cause to those wishing to avoid military service. Simply claim your gay. It is not as if there is a test that the draft board can apply to know for sure if your gay or not.Now you might say that in the past this option always existed yet few would ever employed it. That is indeed correct but that was then and this is now.
The military relied on the fact that being labeled a homosexual would be a mark of public shame impacting a whole host of social functions in life such as job prospects and so on. This social cost kept most potential draft dodgers from ever employing the tactic of claiming to be homosexuals. This continue into the Viet Nam era.
Now however there is little if any social cost to being labeled a homosexual and so little reason not to make the claim when faced with conscription. So should the administration or the military reimpose the no homosexuals policy, something I don't think they are considering but with Donald Trump you just never know, they they will have inadvertently provided an easy and social cost free means of avoiding military service.
Now of course this doesn't really apply to transsexuals but I could see how it might, again how does the draft board prove that someone presenting themselves to the board and claiming to be a transexual is in fact fibbing? It not as if local draft boards are going to have the resources to do background checks and such and even then what have you proven?
All of this is what falls into the area of unintended consequences.
- gkearney
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
Perhaps so but the whole system was built up on the idea of a social taboo, that taboo no longer exists and so the system starts to break down because of this. Remember I am not talking about real transexuals or real homosexuals. I'm talking about people making the claim of such to avoid military service. A claim for which there is no means to test its veracity. Imagine what would have happened if the social costs of claiming to be gay had not existed in the 1960's in the Viet Nam war. Where all anyone had to do to avoid service was to claim to be gay to get out of being drafted. A system that was already fraught with inequities, college deferments and such, would have broken down entirely.Robin Hood wrote: ↑July 27th, 2017, 5:41 am
The way I see this is that if someone is prepared to do this in order to avoid serving their country, I would not want them in my foxhole.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
I agree.gkearney wrote: ↑July 27th, 2017, 6:14 amPerhaps so but the whole system was built up on the idea of a social taboo, that taboo no longer exists and so the system starts to break down because of this. Remember I am not talking about real transexuals or real homosexuals. I'm talking about people making the claim of such to avoid military service. A claim for which there is no means to test its veracity. Imagine what would have happened if the social costs of claiming to be gay had not existed in the 1960's in the Viet Nam war. Where all anyone had to do to avoid service was to claim to be gay to get out of being drafted. A system that was already fraught with inequities, college deferments and such, would have broken down entirely.Robin Hood wrote: ↑July 27th, 2017, 5:41 am
The way I see this is that if someone is prepared to do this in order to avoid serving their country, I would not want them in my foxhole.
So I think what you're saying is that now there is no social taboo about being homosexual, many more people would use it as a reason to avoid the draft, even if they were actually heterosexual.
By extension, this could also now apply to transgenders if President Trump hadn't intervened.
My view is that anyone who puts their own personal feelings, well-being, agenda etc ahead of the needs of society at large during a time of national emergency such as war, is not fit to serve anyway and the armed forces would be better off without them.
- gkearney
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
What I am saying is that the social costs of being associated with homosexuality and like situations was what kept people from using that as a means of avoiding military service in the past. Those social costs no longer exist and so what once kept people from employing the claim of homosexuality to avoid the draft has been removed.
Now as it stands right now homosexuality, in and of itself, is no longer considered a disqualification for military service. However if Trump were to change that as he has done with transgendered people he would create a means of avoiding military service, open to anyone, and which unlike in past times, carried no social penalty.
See the issue?
Now as it stands right now homosexuality, in and of itself, is no longer considered a disqualification for military service. However if Trump were to change that as he has done with transgendered people he would create a means of avoiding military service, open to anyone, and which unlike in past times, carried no social penalty.
See the issue?
- Sirocco
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
Yes but you can tell if someone is legit transgender (via diagnosis of gender dysphoria) it's a mental illness.
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
Rand Corporation last year found that the costs of allowing transgender people to serve in the military would have a "minimal impact" on the budget, amounting to $2.4 million to $8.4 million each year, or 0.04 percent to 0.13 percent of the military health care budget. That's little more than a rounding error when compared to the total U.S. military budget of roughly $700 billion.
- inho
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
Business Insider: The Pentagon spends 5 times more on Viagra than transgender services
Poor argument, but an interesting tidbit. I guess that the army in my country uses different tactics, since I didn't see any Viagra while I was in the military service.
Poor argument, but an interesting tidbit. I guess that the army in my country uses different tactics, since I didn't see any Viagra while I was in the military service.
- BTH&T
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
How about simply saying something is wrong.
The Gospel is founded on right and wrong. This country was founded on right and wrong.
Today, too many want to ignore right and wrong.
The Gospel is founded on right and wrong. This country was founded on right and wrong.
Today, too many want to ignore right and wrong.
- David13
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Re: Donald Trump Says Transgender People No Longer Allowed To Serve In Military
gkearney wrote: ↑July 27th, 2017, 6:14 amPerhaps so but the whole system was built up on the idea of a social taboo, that taboo no longer exists and so the system starts to break down because of this. Remember I am not talking about real transexuals or real homosexuals. I'm talking about people making the claim of such to avoid military service. A claim for which there is no means to test its veracity. Imagine what would have happened if the social costs of claiming to be gay had not existed in the 1960's in the Viet Nam war. Where all anyone had to do to avoid service was to claim to be gay to get out of being drafted. A system that was already fraught with inequities, college deferments and such, would have broken down entirely.Robin Hood wrote: ↑July 27th, 2017, 5:41 am
The way I see this is that if someone is prepared to do this in order to avoid serving their country, I would not want them in my foxhole.
My understanding was that the ban on homos in the military was that they could be blackmailed or threatened to give up military secrets based on their desire not to be exposed as homos. And I'm sure there are still many who would like to continue "in the closet" or without public acknowledgement of their perversion. After all, there still can be serious consequences to exposure, most particularly so in a military setting.
There is another aspect. And that is that some of the homos have a tendency to misbehave, what with men together and all, in sleeping arrangements, away at sea, or other assignment, etc.
I can privately relate some of the horror stories that much to my chagrin were brought to my attention.
So I think you are on the wrong track, I think Robin Hood has a closer true thought about some of this. Which is funny, because all so frequently I have to disagree with Robin Hood.
dc