British health service even more evil than hellish socialism it bows down to

[gclayjr]

Just ask the parents of baby Gard.

http://www.newser.com/story/244032/brit ... to-us.html

I get it. In a socialist utopia, they seize your money, and then decide what is "best" for society. This is somehow "noble" and "compassionate"... and of course fair.

But now they won't even let the parents of Baby Gard take their sick baby away from Britain to that to that evil (sort of) capitalistic county the USA for treatment on their own dime. It wouldn't cause those poor British taxpayers a dime. But no, socialists are never content to just take your money in the name of fairness... they have to decide who is worthy of life and who is not... even if it costs them nothing!

Regards,

George Clay

[dafty]

First off, its not evil NHS decision but the courts. The NHS team of specialists performed tests, made assessments and submitted their reports.Then, the judge made his rulling.Therefore, before you start calling NHS(1 of the most cherished British 'inventions' by millions...)evil, have a read:
After months of deliberations and a battery of repeated tests and examinations, the medical team at GOSH are completely convinced Charlie has no chance of recovery. Thus they want to withdraw treatment and switch to palliative care i.e. managing any pain and distress whilst nature takes its course. Their tests done at GOSH have been suggestive of irreversible brain damage. In the opinion of the professionals at GOSH, Charlie will never breathe unaided, or swallow food, and he has little or no awareness of the world around him. He cannot see, hear or feel. He also reportedly has fits that are difficult to control. Charlie's parents refute this and are convinced Charlie responds to their voices and touch, and that he has far more awareness of the world around him than the professionals believe. They do not accept the view of the professionals at GOSH that his condition is irreversible.
Charlie’s family searched all over the world for potential cures and identified a doctor in the USA who suggested that an experimental treatment called nucleoside therapy might offer some chance of stopping further deterioration of his condition; it is unclear as to whether this doctor feels this treatment could actually reverse his symptoms. This treatment has never been used on any human being with Charlie’s condition, although it has been used on children with similar mitochondrial diseases. There are also potentially side effects that could cause more harm than benefit.
Because there is no hard evidence that this treatment might help, and the medical opinion is that Charlie’s brain is damaged beyond any repair, the team at GOSH feel that it is not in the best interests of Charlie to transport him to the USA, that the risks far outweigh any potential benefits and ultimately the treatment would be futile, merely serving to prolong his suffering.
FULL ARTICLE CAN BE FOUND IN THE LINK BELOW:
http://www.independent.co.uk/Voices/cha ... 27276.html
PS. DISCLAIMER: I do NOT claim to know for sure whether the decision made by the judge is right. Neither, do I say that the team of doctors involved got it all right. I do not know, not knowledgeable enough-simple. However, to call NHS evil because the panel of doctors fear that sending a baby to a different country, for AN EXPERIMENTAL, NEVER TESTED ON HUMANS(WITH THIS CONDITION)TREATMENT!!!! is a bit too much -I think its wrong...

[gclayjr]

dafty,

Courts .. NHS, a difference without a distinction.

You are making my case. The government is deciding to kill baby Gard, to the point of blocking the parents from even l taking him OUT of your beloved NHS and taking him here where he will be cared for!

What evil arrogance!

Regards,

George Clay

[dafty]

dafty,

Courts .. NHS, a difference without a distinction.

You are making my case. The government is deciding to kill baby Gard, to the point of blocking the parents from even l taking him OUT of your beloved NHS and taking him here where he will be cared for!

What evil arrogance!

Regards,

George Clay

Did you not read the article? Are you here in UK to listen endless debates on TV regarding the matter? Do you not realise that the baby is brain dead beyond all repair and there is some (1!!) doctor in whole US, that for a pretty penny (of course lol) is willing to EXPERIMENT on a poor child??!!!
...but ok you won, i rest my case

[gclayjr]

dafty,

Do you not understand that other "brain dead" people have revived, including from, this rare ailment? DO you not see that this government is not simply stating that they wont use taxpayer money to help the parents try and save their kid, but that they use the force and power of their government to PREVENT the parents from even trying to save their child using their own resources?

Have you become so socialist thot you don't see the evil of such totalitarian arrogant dictatorship?

I guess that is the true evil of the Democratic Socialist approach versus the other forms of socialism. It creeps up so slowly, and so silently offering such attractive "freebies" that those who live in it don't even see their souls being lost.

So sad!

Regards,

George Clay

PS: Actually, I am agnostic as to whether it is right or not to turn off life support for this child in this situation. The evil here is in dictating to the parents which choice they must make for their own child. The Government dictates and parents must accept their infinite wisdom!

[dafty]

dafty,

Do you not understand that other "brain dead" people have revived, including from, this rare ailment? DO you not see that this government is not simply stating that they wont use taxpayer money to help the parents try and save their kid, but that they use the force and power of their government to PREVENT the parents from even trying to save their child using their own resources?

Have you become so socialist thot you don't see the evil of such totalitarian arrogant dictatorship?

I guess that is the true evil of the Democratic Socialist approach versus the other forms of socialism. It creeps up so slowly, and so silently offering such attractive "freebies" that those who live in it don't even see their souls being lost.

So sad!

Regards,

George Clay

PS: Actually, I am agnostic as to whether it is right or not to turn off life support for this child in this situation. The evil here is in dictating to the parents which choice they must make for their own child. The Government dictates and parents must accept their infinite wisdom!

not government but court. its a decision based on the reports made by specialist physicians and the judgement made by the high court judge. theres no socialist propaganda behind it. the baby is brain dead and theres no cure for it. the other babies might have recovered from that illness/condition,however, it could have never been this advanced because theres no coming back from being brain dead. Not by any treatment known to man, only by Gods miracle. Now on the subject of me being socialist-I am not!!! I too partake of the sin of capitalistic Babylon and trust me am doing extremely well at the back of it!!! I have never claimed income support, nor used NHS services, besides occasional advice from my GP doctor. I even pay for my dentist privately. But I do believe everyone should have basics covered for them because we all are beggars in front of God... I have an autistic son. theres no cure for autism. Among other things, his condition has been a downfall of my marriage. His mam wants him to go through any treatment possible in hope of curing him because she struggles to embrace the fact he may need support all his life. Now, if there was a doctor in US offering help for 1 million dollars to cure him, I bet she would do anything (and I mean anything lol) to make it happen. But let me tell you, both me and NHS experts would be fighting in court, so that she cant do it!!!and why? because we are socialist? because government wants to control her? NO!NO!NO! but simply a little baby G. or my little older boy,are NOT lab rats!!!! so unless US have a doctor with a proven track record of curing the disease, by well understood and approved method-they are not going to US!!!...well, not unless one of the 12 offers to heal them
God Bless

[gclayjr]

daffy,

You still don't get it. The court IS part of the government. The court is taking the right of a parent to care for their child because they arogantly think that they know all, and cannot let the parents choose for their own child. Even if it costs the government nothing!

That is the whole deal. I said that I was agnostic as to whether or not the plug should be pulled. There are good arguments on either side. God diodn't give me stewardship to tell these parents what they should do. It isn't crazy to try and save this baby. There are doctors over here who will try, and even if they are not successful, maybe the family gets to enjoy being a family for a bit longer. So the issue is government (and yes the courts are part of the government muscle) is usurping the rights of the parents.

As I said before, this is a great problem with creeping socialism/totalitarinalism. You are so completely numb to this usurpation that are defending it,

I am sorry for your son, and the trouibles of his autism. However, I am even more sorry that you would not let a doctor try a cure him, because you think that doing everything possible to help is treating him like a lab rat. The fact of the matter is, that most medical breakthroughs included testing the cure on someone, often who has no other choice. I might agree with you, if you stated that you feared that an experimental cure might be too dangerous, that is a judgement someone (and I think the parents..if they can work together should make it) has to make

But to not do anything, because that is simply the way it is and you see trying an experimental cure to help someone is treating them like a rat... how pathetic.

I hope that the reason you and your wife split wasn't because she might have been upset that she thought you wouldn't do everything in your power to help your son, especially if it was true!


Regards,

George Clay

[OCDMOM]

It should be the decision of the parents, not the Government. A hospital in the US has offered to treat him for free.

[dafty]

You called NHS evil not a court nor government. May I quote"British health service even more evil...". Had you called the government of judicial system evil you would receive thanks from me,if anything.
I gave you example of my son in order to illustrate the fact that sometimes you have to let things be, as we do not posess knowledge, medications etc to heal. There comes a time when one can only rely on God. The baby mentioned in the article is in my opinion/and NHS panel of doctors in thats sort of predicament. Todays medicine cant do nothing for him. But parents are grieving, of course.They are desperate, of course. Then comes a hero-an american doctor, that promises to inject experimental drugs into the baby only if parents raise 1 million dollars for him lol Im glad I live in Socialist/totalitarian Britain when government will intervene and say enough is enough.
Ps. If you think that Latterday KING David...or Salomon of old would let you take your baby to babylon and experiment on him, I think youve got another thing coming lol

[dafty]

OCDMOM could you please give reference with regards which american hospital and doctor offered to taje care of the baby for free? And if you could provide information on the treatment they offered that would be even better x

[Robin Hood]

dafty,

Courts .. NHS, a difference without a distinction.

You are making my case. The government is deciding to kill baby Gard, to the point of blocking the parents from even l taking him OUT of your beloved NHS and taking him here where he will be cared for!

What evil arrogance!

Regards,

George Clay

George,
As is often the case, you appear to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.
I can only assume this constant knocking of the NHS is born out of some kind of deep seated jealousy.

The judiciary are not part of the NHS or of the government. In fact, it often gives the government a bloody nose.

If you had read about the case properly rather than simply react to one report, you may have a better understanding. The medical opinion is that the child cannot travel; to attempt the journey will cause pain and distress and will kill the child. Not only that, but there is no cure for the child's condition anywhere in the world. Including the USA.

Now, I understand the distress of the parents and family of the child. And I do not know whether the doctors are right. But I do know that they know more than you or I, and that they will not have reached their conclusions lightly.
You must think they are some sort of monsters!

But the beauty of an independent judiciary is that it can look at the evidence dispassionately and with cool heads. They listen to the expert opinion, and they listen to the submissions of the parents and those who represent them. And because they are not personally involved they can see the big picture and arrive at a careful and balanced decision. They don't always get it right because, like you and I, they are human beings.

However, due process has occurred and a decision delivered. I don't personally agree with it, but I know that I don't know enough to know better than those who know.
This is the same legal system you have in your utopian every man for himself, let the poor starve and the sick die, country. At least that's how it appears from this side of the pond, but then maybe I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick too.

[BeNotDeceived]

You called NHS evil not a court nor government. May I quote"British health service even more evil...". Had you called the government of judicial system evil you would receive thanks from me,if anything.
I gave you example of my son in order to illustrate the fact that sometimes you have to let things be, as we do not posess knowledge, medications etc to heal. There comes a time when one can only rely on God. The baby mentioned in the article is in my opinion/and NHS panel of doctors in thats sort of predicament. Todays medicine cant do nothing for him. But parents are grieving, of course.They are desperate, of course. Then comes a hero-an american doctor, that promises to inject experimental drugs into the baby only if parents raise 1 million dollars for him lol Im glad I live in Socialist/totalitarian Britain when government will intervene and say enough is enough.
Ps. If you think that Latterday KING David...or Salomon of old would let you take your baby to babylon and experiment on him, I think youve got another thing coming lol

The British often lead the way to sensible solutions such as this:

Britain's new tax on sugary drinks won't come into effect for more than a year, but it's already working.

The government announced the new tax in 2016 as part of an effort to reduce childhood obesity, projecting that it would raise £520 million ($632 million) in additional revenue.

But drinks companies, fearful that higher prices would damage their sales, aren't sitting back and waiting. They are instead working furiously to reduce sugar in their products. ... http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/09/news/ec ... index.html

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

As is often the case, you appear to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.
I can only assume this constant knocking of the NHS is born out of some kind of deep seated jealousy.

The judiciary are not part of the NHS or of the government. In fact, it often gives the government a bloody nose.

I guess I don't understand the concept of courts in Britain. Everywhere else they are a branch of the GOVERNMENT. yes, they may judge between what a government office may desire to do to a citizen and the citizen himself, but that doesn't man that they are not part of the Government. You and Daffy want to whitewash the DHSs role in this. I will ask you this. Would the courts have been involved if the DHS, had told the parents that they didn't think the baby was worth any more precious taxpayer money to treat or keep on life support, and the parents had said OK we found someone else who will take care of our baby, please help us prepare him for transport, and DHS had said OK? Of course not! DHS already said no, you must let us kill him! and the parents took the case to court and Lost! Please, why are you guys so blind to evil power administrated by your beloved DHS.

And you guys have been so conditioned that when the Government experts speak it must be true, after all, they are the experts. That is what you guys seem to miss. You don't question it , you don't see it. you just go along, because it must be true. You and your kids BELONG to them, you as parents, are just other civil servants raising up more little minions to be more little cogs in the government's machine.

They are no longer YOUR children, The government determines their health care, their education, and if BeNotDeceived is correct what they eat!. your job is to bow down to their superior knowledge and power and say yes sir.

And you guys have lost the ability to even see what you have lost.

You ask me if I am jealous of your NHS. Definitely not. I am afraid; I am afraid because we are treading down that same path. maybe in addition to loosing our freedoms, we will also lose the ability to even know what we have lost!

Regards,

George Clay

[Robin Hood]

Robin Hood,

As is often the case, you appear to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.
I can only assume this constant knocking of the NHS is born out of some kind of deep seated jealousy.

The judiciary are not part of the NHS or of the government. In fact, it often gives the government a bloody nose.

I guess I don't understand the concept of courts in Britain. Everywhere else they are a branch of the GOVERNMENT. yes, they may judge between what a government office may desire to do to a citizen and the citizen himself, but that doesn't man that they are not part of the Government. You and Daffy want to whitewash the DHSs role in this. I will ask you this. Would the courts have been involved if the DHS, had told the parents that they didn't think the baby was worth any more precious taxpayer money to treat or keep on life support, and the parents had said OK we found someone else who will take care of our baby, please help us prepare him for transport, and DHS had said OK? Of course not! DHS already said no, you must let us kill him! and the parents took the case to court and Lost! Please, why are you guys so blind to evil power administrated by your beloved DHS.

And you guys have been so conditioned that when the Government experts speak it must be true, after all, they are the experts. That is what you guys seem to miss. You don't question it , you don't see it. you just go along, because it must be true. You and your kids BELONG to them, you as parents, are just other civil servants raising up more little minions to be more little cogs in the government's machine.

They are no longer YOUR children, The government determines their health care, their education, and if BeNotDeceived is correct what they eat!. your job is to bow down to their superior knowledge and power and say yes sir.

And you guys have lost the ability to even see what you have lost.

You ask me if I am jealous of your NHS. Definitely not. I am afraid; I am afraid because we are treading down that same path. maybe in addition to loosing our freedoms, we will also lose the ability to even know what we have lost!

Regards,

George Clay

The judiciary are not a branch of the government. Why on earth would you think they are?
I don't think they are in your country either, but I may be wrong as I'm not such an expert on your country as you appear to suggest you are on mine.

You can't hide it George, you're clearly jealous of the NHS. Why else would you attack it so?
If America goes down the same path, you never know, it might be better than the system you have now.
I have family in Idaho who speak very poorly of the US healthcare system and who have suffered with illnesses and injuries which would have been dealt with easily and swiftly by the NHS. My sister-in-law walks with a limp to this very day because she couldn't afford to go to hospital to get her ankle set when she broke it a few years ago. She couldn't afford the treatment she needed at the time because she was still trying to pay off the $50,000 bill she was clobbered with when her son broke his leg badly while playing basketball.
Great system George. I wonder why the rest of the western world isn't flocking to imitate it!

[Durzan]

By necessity, courts have to be a part of the government in order for their rulings to be able to be legally enforced. Wether or not that is officially acknowledged, probably depends on the country. Moreover, 9/10 judges are appointed by the governing body of the nation in one form or another, thus lending credence to the notion that a court is part of the government.

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

The judiciary are not a branch of the government. Why on earth would you think they are?
I don't think they are in your country either, but I may be wrong as I'm not such an expert on your country as you appear to suggest you are on mine.

Here in the U.S all children are all taught from grade school that there are 3 branches of Government; Legislative, Judicial, and Executive. The separation of powers between these 3 branches provides for checks and balances.

In Britain

http://www.britannia.com/gov/gov8.html

The Judiciary
The Lord Chancellor is head of the judiciary in England and Wales. His responsibilities include court procedure and, through the Court Service, the administration of the higher courts and many tribunals in England and Wales. He recommends all judicial appointments to the Crown - other than the highest, which are recommended by the Prime Minister - and appoints magistrates. Judges are normally appointed from practising lawyers. They are not subject to ministerial direction or control.

It appears that your Judicial system is much like ours

Could it be that you know as little about the freedoms you have lost as you do about the structure of either your government or ours?

Regards

George Clay

[Robin Hood]

Robin Hood,

The judiciary are not a branch of the government. Why on earth would you think they are?
I don't think they are in your country either, but I may be wrong as I'm not such an expert on your country as you appear to suggest you are on mine.

Here in the U.S all children are all taught from grade school that there are 3 branches of Government; Legislative, Judicial, and Executive. The separation of powers between these 3 branches provides for checks and balances.

In Britain

http://www.britannia.com/gov/gov8.html

The Judiciary
The Lord Chancellor is head of the judiciary in England and Wales. His responsibilities include court procedure and, through the Court Service, the administration of the higher courts and many tribunals in England and Wales. He recommends all judicial appointments to the Crown - other than the highest, which are recommended by the Prime Minister - and appoints magistrates. Judges are normally appointed from practising lawyers. They are not subject to ministerial direction or control.

It appears that your Judicial system is much like ours

Could it be that you know as little about the freedoms you have lost as you do about the structure of either your government or ours?

Regards

George Clay

I thought that might be where you were going wrong.
The Crown is not the government. Oh that's right... you don't have the Crown over there. Well, that isn't entirely true, the Canadians do.
Maybe 4th of July was not such a good idea after all. =))

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

I thought that might be where you were going wrong.
The Crown is not the government. Oh that's right... you don't have the Crown over there. Well, that isn't entirely true, the Canadians do.
Maybe 4th of July was not such a good idea after all. =))

Toma-toe - to-mah-toe

I guess this is another situation where we are separated by a common language. Other than terminology, it is still the same whether you decide to somehow have separate governing between a "government" and the "crown". Bottom line, the court still would not have gotten invoked if NHS was willing to let the parents take their child to another hospital outside of NHS.

Regards,

George Clay

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

I have family in Idaho who speak very poorly of the US healthcare system and who have suffered with illnesses and injuries which would have been dealt with easily and swiftly by the NHS. My sister-in-law walks with a limp to this very day because she couldn't afford to go to hospital to get her ankle set when she broke it a few years ago. She couldn't afford the treatment she needed at the time because she was still trying to pay off the $50,000 bill she was clobbered with when her son broke his leg badly while playing basketball.
Great system George. I wonder why the rest of the western world isn't flocking to imitate it!

I don't know whether your family in Idaho experienced their problems before or after our pathetic copy of your NHS, that we call "Obama Care" became law.

However, that is irrelevant. Here in the U.S, we have always had free health care for indigent people who cannot afford health insurance, whether it is via Medicaid, or just showing up to an Emergency room, for emergency care.

I don't know the story of your family, but often, people struggling with various financial choices decide to "take a chance" and drop private health insurance.

If they do, then they are taking chances, and there are consequences for choices people make.

You see people think that Christ's plan was all butterflies and flowers in the hair while linking arms and singing "We are the world". In fact, the deceptive beauty of that vision of the world, is actually closer to Satan, than Christ.

It was Satan that offered to make all the decisions, provide for our needs, and we would would all be saved, and nobody would have any bad consequences, not Christ.

Socialism seductive as it is comes from Satan, ... not Christ

Regards,

George Clay

[JohnnyL]

Of course the judiciary is part of the government, and of course they are NOT unbiased, cool-headed, and objective, though no doubt at least some, if not many, try to be.

I agree with George. It would be extremely easy to say, "Do what you want, but you you are responsible for costs."

Nope, can't do that. Even when the child has been basically been declared dead by officials, anyway.

It's called medical kidnapping, a name given in the USA, because like most wicked practices, we started it.

And while it's the courts deciding, it's "Medicine" behind it.

[Robin Hood]

Of course the judiciary is part of the government, and of course they are NOT unbiased, cool-headed, and objective, though no doubt at least some, if not many, try to be.

I agree with George. It would be extremely easy to say, "Do what you want, but you you are responsible for costs."

Nope, can't do that. Even when the child has been basically been declared dead by officials, anyway.

It's called medical kidnapping, a name given in the USA, because like most wicked practices, we started it.

And while it's the courts deciding, it's "Medicine" behind it.

You're right JohnnyL. I have little respect for modern medicine and especially BigPharma.
But the judiciary is not part of the government. It is part of the Crown, as is the government. That's why it is called Her Majesty's Government.
And that is why, if I am arrested for a serious crime, I would end up in Crown Court, where I would be prosecuted by the Crown and not by the government.

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

But the judiciary is not part of the government. It is part of the Crown, as is the government. That's why it is called Her Majesty's Government.
And that is why, if I am arrested for a serious crime, I would end up in Crown Court, where I would be prosecuted by the Crown and not by the government.

again a distinction without a difference. But if you find that semantical arguments over whether courts are part of the crown or government, and whether it is the crown or the government who has usurped your freedom, then I guess it helps you to turn a blind eye to how the Government/crown has benevolently taken your freedom from you and is now taking care of you...just like Satan desired

Regards,

George Clay

[dafty]

*BREAKING NEWS*
Due to intervention by Pope, president Trump and a new evidence(from unpublished studies it has to be said...), the case is going to be reviewed. Hospital, although legally could switch off the life support, will not do so until the final decision is made. An independent specialist invited by BBC news stated that experts feel that baby is most likely in pain, that the treatment have been shown to show 3% improvement(which in baby G's case would not change anything due to his brain damage), but never been tested on subjects with his condition, therefore even 3% improvement cant be guaranteed.The US and Europen experts that say the case should be reviewed, admit the treatment should be tested on mice initially,however, since theres no time to do so, they feel the baby would have to be that initial subject...I will let you make your own mind up. the case will be reviewed anyway.
PS. dont quote me on that, but apparently the parents are hoping for a 'significant' recovery, however the treatment cant even guarantee taking him off life support, let alone improving his life significantly. the words such as denial, and delusional have been used, however, I feel we should not stoop this low if only out of respect for grieving parents.God Bless them

[gclayjr]

dafty,

Thanks for the update. I don't know if the parents are Christian or not. But I hope that they seek out the guidance of the Holy Spirit in prayer, then be allowed the opportunity to make the right decision for the care of their son, whatever that might be.

Regards,

George Clay

[dafty]

dafty,

Thanks for the update. I don't know if the parents are Christian or not. But I hope that they seek out the guidance of the Holy Spirit in prayer, then be allowed the opportunity to make the right decision for the care of their son, whatever that might be.

Regards,

George Clay

Remember only one thing.The elders advised utah people to vote for alcohol prohibition - to give government power to prohibit people from drinking/doing stupid thing...sometimes, its good for government to intervene with the right and objective decision, because otherwise our selfish desires (even if they are most noble ) and subjective outlook on things may cause more harm and suffering than good.