Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Discuss political news items / current events.
JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9830

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by JohnnyL »

There are points that have been brought up about "universal healthcare".

1. Caps. Yup, doctors can't charge what they want--if the people are paying with insurance. If they are NOT paying with insurance, doctors can charge whatever they want.

2. There is no middleman. In the USA, doctors charge $$$, insurance companies pay $$$, and the insured pay $$$$. In general, there is much more savings. Yes, there is supplemental insurance, life insurance, etc. On the other hand, doctors make much less. But still good money. They aren't sued for billions every year, either. It's part of life knowing that doctors and dentists are going to mess up, as long as it's not too much.

3. You can go to any doctor, anywhere. If you go to a hospital, it costs a few dollars more.

4. Problems: people go to the doctor and dentist ALL. THE. TIME. Little cough? Go to the doctor! Doctor won't give you medicine? Go to another!
There are NO guidelines for going to the doctor.

Serragon
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3444

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by Serragon »

Miss USA was not talking about health care, even though those are the words she used. She was talking about paying for health care. This is a distinction with a difference. All people in the USA have always had access to health care. Obamacare was simply a way to shift the burden of paying for that health care to others.

One of the great evils of socializing payment for health care is that is essentially socializing poor decisions.

Most health issues occur because of decisions people have made. People engage in high-risk behavior yet expect others to pay for that risk. It is immoral and unjust to expect someone to subsidize the poor choices of someone else.

This is why the free market is superior. You get to decide who you will subsidize.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9830

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by JohnnyL »

I just really wish it were a free market... :(

Anyway, my relative got 3 teeth pulled for $300 cash (no insurance, negotiated with dentist). With my insurance, it would cost probably $1,000. Sometimes I wonder...

jenny26
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 1

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by jenny26 »

Hello Gage,

I completely agree with Miss USA. It's an illiterate people who don't know about what is the actual meaning of the discussion. If this really hurts then you have to claim on them.
Thanks...

Juliet
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3701

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by Juliet »

I think insurance keeps medical prices high since the insurance garauntees something to be paid. Now that prices are so high, that is beginning to change because insurance companies are now shopping competitively for the cheapest prices. But the problem then becomes they don't care about quality care, only saving money.

To get a good product at a low prices, you need capitalism. Just ask your cell phone.

Do you think the price of those x Ray's is coming down any time soon? Not the way things are.

The government can't provide good healthcare any more than it can give everyone a loaf of bread. It is individual people who make the bread and resources for society to survive. What the government does is interfere and there is a direct link between government interference and loss of life. That is why the only true government is one that acknowledges it's lack of rights.

Since God gave us life, then God is in control over our health. The best thing that ever happened to me was to not have health insurance. I learned about herbs and plants.

I worked as a cna. The amount of and strength of the drugs they give these poor elderly is wrong. The withdrawal of missing a drug for them is absolutely truamatic. You might as well give them street drugs. Anyone with any sense would see that our medical system is dangerous and harmful but no one has sense when there is money to be made and research for healthcare funding comes from the government.

If we want healthcare quality to improve and prices to go down, give it to the free market to handle just like the free market has improved quality of life in every other area when the government is out of the picture. And we need to get rid of most types of health insurances. If you can't pay out of pocket for a cold without insurance then the price of healthcare is artificially too high. I can see subsidizing expensive equipment but every other factory is able to pay for expensive equipment and still keep prices low for their products. So like most things, insurance is not needed in healthcare. Insurance is used because of a fear of loss of life. If you ask me, that amounts to exploitation since it keeps prices high.

Government ought to protect against exploitation and monopolies. Maybe the U.K. does that with their healthcare. But the U.S. certainly does not. Maybe it is because of our corrupt lobbies. But the problem is, who makes sure the government does right by its people and not wrong? Well, we are back to square one.

If your government does right by you today then well done, congratulations. Who is to say it will be doing right for you tomorrow.

I have heard horror stories of U.K. nurses and how they care for the elderly, by government mandate. Not good stuff. Government should never have rights over someone's health because it gives them the right to murder.

Michelle
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by Michelle »

Juliet wrote: March 24th, 2019, 6:53 am I think insurance keeps medical prices high since the insurance garauntees something to be paid. Now that prices are so high, that is beginning to change because insurance companies are now shopping competitively for the cheapest prices. But the problem then becomes they don't care about quality care, only saving money.

To get a good product at a low prices, you need capitalism. Just ask your cell phone.

Do you think the price of those x Ray's is coming down any time soon? Not the way things are.

The government can't provide good healthcare any more than it can give everyone a loaf of bread. It is individual people who make the bread and resources for society to survive. What the government does is interfere and there is a direct link between government interference and loss of life. That is why the only true government is one that acknowledges it's lack of rights.

Since God gave us life, then God is in control over our health. The best thing that ever happened to me was to not have health insurance. I learned about herbs and plants.

I worked as a cna. The amount of and strength of the drugs they give these poor elderly is wrong. The withdrawal of missing a drug for them is absolutely truamatic. You might as well give them street drugs. Anyone with any sense would see that our medical system is dangerous and harmful but no one has sense when there is money to be made and research for healthcare funding comes from the government.

If we want healthcare quality to improve and prices to go down, give it to the free market to handle just like the free market has improved quality of life in every other area when the government is out of the picture. And we need to get rid of most types of health insurances. If you can't pay out of pocket for a cold without insurance then the price of healthcare is artificially too high. I can see subsidizing expensive equipment but every other factory is able to pay for expensive equipment and still keep prices low for their products. So like most things, insurance is not needed in healthcare. Insurance is used because of a fear of loss of life. If you ask me, that amounts to exploitation since it keeps prices high.

Government ought to protect against exploitation and monopolies. Maybe the U.K. does that with their healthcare. But the U.S. certainly does not. Maybe it is because of our corrupt lobbies. But the problem is, who makes sure the government does right by its people and not wrong? Well, we are back to square one.

If your government does right by you today then well done, congratulations. Who is to say it will be doing right for you tomorrow.

I have heard horror stories of U.K. nurses and how they care for the elderly, by government mandate. Not good stuff. Government should never have rights over someone's health because it gives them the right to murder.
I had a friend who taught me something awesome regarding this same principle.

There are four ways to spend money:

You can spend someone else's money on someone else; you care less about cost and less about quality.
You can spend someone else's money on yourself; you care less about cost, you care more about quality.
You can spend your own money on someone else; you care more about the cost, you care less about the quality.
You can spend your own money on yourself; you care more about the cost and the quality.

Michelle
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by Michelle »

Robin Hood wrote: May 16th, 2017, 10:39 am
BTH&T wrote: May 16th, 2017, 10:16 am
Robin Hood wrote: May 16th, 2017, 10:02 am Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.
I personally think as individuals we are to assist with all we can to ease the suffering of others.
It is a whole different thing to expect or demand institutions to care and provide for our needs.
This was demonstrated in your analogy, it wasn't gov't that cared for the man in need nor some outreach program, it was an individual.
I just knew someone would say that.
So, your neighbour has cancer and needs some very expensive treatment to save his life.
Are you going to sell your house to pay for it, or let him die?
Your assuming that this expensive treatment will save their life, be worth the cost and be worth the suffering.

All highly doubtful considering what we know about cancer treatments today.

Now if they needed their finger sewn back on, I think we could gather enough donations voluntarily, or they could do without.

TheSnail
captain of 50
Posts: 74

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by TheSnail »

Robin Hood wrote: May 16th, 2017, 10:02 am Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.
The Samaritan did not use violence to force others to do his good deeds, nor did he steal funds from others to pay for them.

There's an enormous difference between charity freely given and violent coercion.

Thou shalt not steal, and thou shalt not covet come to mind.

wargames83
captain of 100
Posts: 134

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by wargames83 »

2EstablishZion wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:11 am I agree, Gage.

Claiming that you have a right to a service = enslaving whoever is providing or paying for that service.
Claiming a right to property that you did not produce or purchase is theft.
So you don't have a right to police protection?

User avatar
The Airbender
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1376

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by The Airbender »

Government handout = stealing from your neighbor.

Serragon
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3444

Re: Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

Post by Serragon »

wargames83 wrote: May 21st, 2019, 8:39 am
2EstablishZion wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:11 am I agree, Gage.

Claiming that you have a right to a service = enslaving whoever is providing or paying for that service.
Claiming a right to property that you did not produce or purchase is theft.
So you don't have a right to police protection?
How do you realize this right if no one wants to be a policeman? How do you realize this right if there are police but they choose not to protect you or your property?

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